Re:Reactions from Xiph
on
More on MPEG4
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Oh yes, in case you haven't figured it out, ParadoX = Emmett Plant xiphmont = Colin Montgomerie jack = Jack Moffitt
Reactions from Xiph
on
More on MPEG4
·
· Score: 3, Funny
Aren't these people cute? This is the log from yesterday's irc chat when they were discussing the article, irc.openprojects.net #vorbis
[14:05:00] {Paradox} jesus [14:06:23] {Paradox} Hey, kids [14:07:33] {slothy} hey para [14:07:45] {Paradox} You want to see something that rocks? [14:07:50] {slothy} absolutely [14:07:52] {Paradox} http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/03/06/mpeg/ index.html [14:09:10] {slothy} oh wow, this is great [14:09:27] {Paradox} Jesus Christ, I nailed that one. [14:10:17] {Paradox} I even got the last word in on the article. [14:11:13] {Paradox} This is exactly the article I wanted to see written. [14:17:58] {nemo} Paradox: the article seems to imply/assume that the other codecs, even if they gain popular usage, will still be technically inferior to mpeg4 though. [14:18:16] {nemo} not the point of hte article, I know... but still vaguelly taints an otherwise great article [14:19:58] {Paradox} I like the article a lot [14:21:25] {nemo} I agree. it's very good [14:22:16] {Paradox} It gets the right message out [14:22:31] {Paradox} He didn't quote what I wanted him to quote, but I gave him plenty of stuff [14:23:24] {nemo} *nods* it's a good article. need more like it:) [14:26:37] {Paradox} At least it gets Xiph's name out there in the news [14:27:14] {xiphmont} yes [14:27:19] {xiphmont} agreed, a good article. [14:28:20] {aaronl} wow, they used ogg in Serious Sam? [14:32:28] {vsync} i ripped a CD to.ogg last night [14:32:40] {vsync} first time in quite a while [14:32:52] {pladask} aaronl: what? where did you hear that?:-) [14:33:14] {vsync} Paradox: you've inspired confidence in me:) [14:33:53] {Paradox} Good! [14:34:03] {Paradox} Confidence in me, or confidence in you? [14:34:15] {vsync} but this all means nothing until i _can_ actually play my files:) [14:34:26] {vsync} Paradox: in you guys [14:35:14] {Paradox} That's good to hear [14:36:03] {Paradox} Wow, Cube coming tomorrow, my office is clean, and a good Salon article. I'll sleep well tonight. [14:37:22] {jack} heh [14:39:53] {Paradox} I have a hair appointment tomorrow [14:40:07] {Paradox} at 1:45 EST [14:40:20] {Paradox} I don't want to go, it'll keep me apart from my new toy [14:40:34] {vsync} i wish i was a CEO of something and could have "hair appointments" and get interviewed [14:40:37] {vsync} and have an "office" [14:40:44] {Paradox} hah [14:40:53] {vsync} Paradox: you guys should hire me [14:40:56] {Paradox} My office is the extra bedroom in my apartment [14:41:06] {vsync} to write propaganda [14:41:09] {volsung} vsync: You just want the G4 cube...:) [14:41:11] {vsync} spread FUD on/. for you [14:41:11] {vsync} etc [14:41:15] {Paradox} Tell you what.. I'll give you half of my paycheck from Xiph.org this week [14:41:16] * Coderjoe pukes
The main language used in Singapore (I'm a citizen here) is English (road signs, application forms, just about everything uses English). The official languages are English, Chinese, Malay and Tamil (if there is space and the requirement for it, e.g. tax return forms and warning signs, all four languages will be provided). The official official language is Malay (national song, military drill commands). Just about everyone here speaks their mother tongue and English fluently.
When Drahtmuller contacted savoixmagazine.com's hosting company in the U.S., the situation slipped into the ridiculous as the hosting company tried to reply in Drahtmuller's native German language. "Even though we contacted them in English, they ran their response through Babelfish (translation software) so we couldn't understand what they were saying," he told ZDNet U.K. "In the end we blocked their servers from our mail exchanges. We did what we could but the problem still existed."
Before anyone starts comparing Ogg Vorbis at 32kbps against KT Tech's 32kbps implementation, let me remind everyont that Ogg Vorbis is not ready at 32kbps yet. This is planned for the RC4 release (Ogg Vorbis is currently in the RC3 release) where all the low to very low bitrates will be tuned. It is not possible to compare Ogg Vorbis at 32kbps against KT-Tech now simply because RC3 doesn't support the encoding at that bitrate. The currently lowest quality (encoding at -q 0) will give approximately 64kbps.
For those interested in Sierra games music (King's Quest, Leisure Suit Larry, Quest for Glory, etc), there is a site specially dedicated for it at http://www.queststudios.com/quest/sierrap1.html
What makes you think that Ogg Tarkin doesn't require a lot of processing power and be a hog to encode too? From what I've seen of Ogg Tarkin so far and talked to a couple of developers from Xiph, Ogg Tarkin will be based on 3D wavelets. Imagine what wavelets have done for quality in JPEG2000 and imagine what it can do if you add in the time dimension. Of course, this increases the amount of processing, but more importantly, it requires a much bigger memory buffer because the entire block has to be in the buffer before you can start generating frames from there. That would probably be quite horrible for seeking too.
There are various MP3 encoders, and the most common ones seen are Xing's, Franhoffer's and the Open Source LAME's. I believe odds are they licensed the encoder from Franhoffer. Xing's suck and LAME has many legal issues. Can anyone confirm which one they are using?
With the quality of the latest RC3 release, Vorbis now sits on the throne in the low to middle bitrates, easily beating out MP3Pro and WMA even in the very low bitrates of 64kbps. The best part about it is that Monty has mentioned that he's still not happy with the quality at 64kbps and will still be improving it further. At middle bitrates of 128kbps, it is at least as good as the best AAC implementation. At the high bitrates, it still hasn't matched MPC, but it is catching up really fast. Whether Vorbis (a transform coder) can ever overtake MPC (a subband coder) quality in the future in the high bitrate arena (usually ruled by subband coders where pre-echo artifacts are nearly non-existant) is very much unknown, and probably depends on Vorbis implementing a really good anti-pre-echo system better than all the current techniques being used.
So therefore, for the best quality now, use Ogg Vorbis at bitrates of 160kbps and below. Above 160kbps, use MPC.
Not too difficult. They can simply rename their Athlon XP 2000 to Athlon XP 3500 and no one would be wiser. It's the performance which counts, and not the clockspeed, right?
Besides computer chess, Contract Bridge has also held its own Computer Bridge tournaments, of which the strongest has been Gibware. Would be interesting to see more different type of AI tournaments.... Maybe a tournament between the smartest Quake 3 or Counter-strike bots...
[20:47:07] -ElectricElf- [GlobalNotice] Good morning to everyone in EST, and hello to everyone else:) Yes, we are currently back to ircu, instead of our new codebase, dancer. We are examining our options, but be assured the bug that caused us to revert back is known and has been fixed. It is currently being tested right now. Cross your fingers, please:)
Shattered Galaxy just came out of beta and is in commercial release since 21st August. Looks pretty good, won quite a few awards at shows.
Blizzard will have its hands full playing catch-up, but it'll probably win the Warcraft fans over just like Ultima Online did and Star Wars Galaxy will when (hahahahaaa) it is released.
I just hope Blizzard won't be like the idiots Electronic Arts were when they forced the Origin developers to drop the Ultima 9: Ascension project for Ultima Online. Can you imagine them putting aside Warcraft 3 for the MMORPG version?
Slashdot Mirror
Oh yes, in case you haven't figured it out,
ParadoX = Emmett Plant
xiphmont = Colin Montgomerie
jack = Jack Moffitt
Aren't these people cute? This is the log from yesterday's irc chat when they were discussing the article, irc.openprojects.net #vorbis
/ index.html :) .ogg last night :-) :) :) :) /. for you
[14:05:00] {Paradox} jesus
[14:06:23] {Paradox} Hey, kids
[14:07:33] {slothy} hey para
[14:07:45] {Paradox} You want to see something that rocks?
[14:07:50] {slothy} absolutely
[14:07:52] {Paradox} http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/03/06/mpeg
[14:09:10] {slothy} oh wow, this is great
[14:09:27] {Paradox} Jesus Christ, I nailed that one.
[14:10:17] {Paradox} I even got the last word in on the article.
[14:11:13] {Paradox} This is exactly the article I wanted to see written.
[14:17:58] {nemo} Paradox: the article seems to imply/assume that the other codecs, even if they gain popular usage, will still be technically inferior to mpeg4 though.
[14:18:16] {nemo} not the point of hte article, I know... but still vaguelly taints an otherwise great article
[14:19:58] {Paradox} I like the article a lot
[14:21:25] {nemo} I agree. it's very good
[14:22:16] {Paradox} It gets the right message out
[14:22:31] {Paradox} He didn't quote what I wanted him to quote, but I gave him plenty of stuff
[14:23:24] {nemo} *nods* it's a good article. need more like it
[14:26:37] {Paradox} At least it gets Xiph's name out there in the news
[14:27:14] {xiphmont} yes
[14:27:19] {xiphmont} agreed, a good article.
[14:28:20] {aaronl} wow, they used ogg in Serious Sam?
[14:32:28] {vsync} i ripped a CD to
[14:32:40] {vsync} first time in quite a while
[14:32:52] {pladask} aaronl: what? where did you hear that?
[14:33:14] {vsync} Paradox: you've inspired confidence in me
[14:33:53] {Paradox} Good!
[14:34:03] {Paradox} Confidence in me, or confidence in you?
[14:34:15] {vsync} but this all means nothing until i _can_ actually play my files
[14:34:26] {vsync} Paradox: in you guys
[14:35:14] {Paradox} That's good to hear
[14:36:03] {Paradox} Wow, Cube coming tomorrow, my office is clean, and a good Salon article. I'll sleep well tonight.
[14:37:22] {jack} heh
[14:39:53] {Paradox} I have a hair appointment tomorrow
[14:40:07] {Paradox} at 1:45 EST
[14:40:20] {Paradox} I don't want to go, it'll keep me apart from my new toy
[14:40:34] {vsync} i wish i was a CEO of something and could have "hair appointments" and get interviewed
[14:40:37] {vsync} and have an "office"
[14:40:44] {Paradox} hah
[14:40:53] {vsync} Paradox: you guys should hire me
[14:40:56] {Paradox} My office is the extra bedroom in my apartment
[14:41:06] {vsync} to write propaganda
[14:41:09] {volsung} vsync: You just want the G4 cube...
[14:41:11] {vsync} spread FUD on
[14:41:11] {vsync} etc
[14:41:15] {Paradox} Tell you what.. I'll give you half of my paycheck from Xiph.org this week
[14:41:16] * Coderjoe pukes
TIE fighters shoot green lasers, X-Wings shoot red lasers.
The main language used in Singapore (I'm a citizen here) is English (road signs, application forms, just about everything uses English). The official languages are English, Chinese, Malay and Tamil (if there is space and the requirement for it, e.g. tax return forms and warning signs, all four languages will be provided). The official official language is Malay (national song, military drill commands). Just about everyone here speaks their mother tongue and English fluently.
Oh man, this is just hilarious:
When Drahtmuller contacted savoixmagazine.com's hosting company in the U.S., the situation slipped into the ridiculous as the hosting company tried to reply in Drahtmuller's native German language. "Even though we contacted them in English, they ran their response through Babelfish (translation software) so we couldn't understand what they were saying," he told ZDNet U.K. "In the end we blocked their servers from our mail exchanges. We did what we could but the problem still existed."
Before anyone starts comparing Ogg Vorbis at 32kbps against KT Tech's 32kbps implementation, let me remind everyont that Ogg Vorbis is not ready at 32kbps yet. This is planned for the RC4 release (Ogg Vorbis is currently in the RC3 release) where all the low to very low bitrates will be tuned. It is not possible to compare Ogg Vorbis at 32kbps against KT-Tech now simply because RC3 doesn't support the encoding at that bitrate. The currently lowest quality (encoding at -q 0) will give approximately 64kbps.
For those interested in Sierra games music (King's Quest, Leisure Suit Larry, Quest for Glory, etc), there is a site specially dedicated for it at http://www.queststudios.com/quest/sierrap1.html
The laptop and wires are protected by a dart-proof cover... but what about the webcam itself?
BTW, you need to type in the full url http://www.xvid.org to access the XviD site. http://xvid.org does not work.
What makes you think that Ogg Tarkin doesn't require a lot of processing power and be a hog to encode too? From what I've seen of Ogg Tarkin so far and talked to a couple of developers from Xiph, Ogg Tarkin will be based on 3D wavelets. Imagine what wavelets have done for quality in JPEG2000 and imagine what it can do if you add in the time dimension. Of course, this increases the amount of processing, but more importantly, it requires a much bigger memory buffer because the entire block has to be in the buffer before you can start generating frames from there. That would probably be quite horrible for seeking too.
There are various MP3 encoders, and the most common ones seen are Xing's, Franhoffer's and the Open Source LAME's. I believe odds are they licensed the encoder from Franhoffer. Xing's suck and LAME has many legal issues. Can anyone confirm which one they are using?
Hey cool, can we use BGI to do graphics in Linux too?
With the quality of the latest RC3 release, Vorbis now sits on the throne in the low to middle bitrates, easily beating out MP3Pro and WMA even in the very low bitrates of 64kbps. The best part about it is that Monty has mentioned that he's still not happy with the quality at 64kbps and will still be improving it further. At middle bitrates of 128kbps, it is at least as good as the best AAC implementation. At the high bitrates, it still hasn't matched MPC, but it is catching up really fast. Whether Vorbis (a transform coder) can ever overtake MPC (a subband coder) quality in the future in the high bitrate arena (usually ruled by subband coders where pre-echo artifacts are nearly non-existant) is very much unknown, and probably depends on Vorbis implementing a really good anti-pre-echo system better than all the current techniques being used.
So therefore, for the best quality now, use Ogg Vorbis at bitrates of 160kbps and below. Above 160kbps, use MPC.
Not too difficult. They can simply rename their Athlon XP 2000 to Athlon XP 3500 and no one would be wiser. It's the performance which counts, and not the clockspeed, right?
Besides computer chess, Contract Bridge has also held its own Computer Bridge tournaments, of which the strongest has been Gibware. Would be interesting to see more different type of AI tournaments.... Maybe a tournament between the smartest Quake 3 or Counter-strike bots...
Anyone care to write a parallel parking script for this?
/dev/wheel
/dev/accelerator
/dev/accelerator
/dev/wheel
/dev/gear
cat "right 30" >
cat "25" >
sleep 2
cat "0" >
cat "left 30" >
cat "reverse" >
Actually, I've seen plenty of BSoD'ed kiosks around here in Singapore. Not ATM machines, but farecard top-up kiosks and information kiosks.
Damn.. I can't wait to see how fast the NV25 runs Quack3... I mean, Quake3
Here's the link directly to the article:m l
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/22770.ht
[20:47:07] -ElectricElf- [GlobalNotice] Good morning to everyone in EST, and hello to everyone else :) Yes, we are currently back to ircu, instead of our new codebase, dancer. We are examining our options, but be assured the bug that caused us to revert back is known and has been fixed. It is currently being tested right now. Cross your fingers, please :)
And not 640 pounds-force?
Why buy an Intel 20GHz CPU for $n when you can get an AMD 14GHz CPU for $(n/2) which beats the Intel 20GHz CPU in almost all benchmark tests?
Just don't forget not to remove the heat sink.
That's what I thought I saw the first time round. Was wondering if the board would burn like an AMD without a heatsink on its maiden 3dMark test.
do you call it a ST5Cat Cluster or a Beowulf Cluster?
http://www.sgalaxy.com
I believe it's the first graphical MMORPG.
Shattered Galaxy just came out of beta and is in commercial release since 21st August. Looks pretty good, won quite a few awards at shows.
Blizzard will have its hands full playing catch-up, but it'll probably win the Warcraft fans over just like Ultima Online did and Star Wars Galaxy will when (hahahahaaa) it is released.
I just hope Blizzard won't be like the idiots Electronic Arts were when they forced the Origin developers to drop the Ultima 9: Ascension project for Ultima Online. Can you imagine them putting aside Warcraft 3 for the MMORPG version?