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P4 2.2GHz Overclocked to 3.5GHz
GraveD sent linkage to a site
explaining how a homemade nitrogen cooling system
overclocked a P4
from 2.2Ghz to an incredible 3.5ghz. There's plenty of stuff
to poke at over there. Update: 01/17 20:42 GMT by T : boaworm writes: "According to this paper, the Finnish geeks have successfully oveclocked a Pentium 4 to 3675 Mhz. They claim it is a new World Record, and it sure looks like they beaten another O/C'd Pentium 4 submitted earlier today on slashdot. (Summary in English in the end)."
Larry Ellison is a egotistical ass? I am shocked!
Unless you've been living in a cave, you've seen Oracle's Unbreakable campaign
I guess I've been living in a cave.
Who falls for such ludicris, ridiculous claims? I can't imagine an IT guy taking any of Ellison's claims seriously. Maybe someone that went to DeVry...
We're waiting on moving to 9i. No, wait, we're not even waiting. We just moved to 8i last year and there's no reason to move to 9i for us now, no matter how "unbreakable" or not 9i is.
Happily, though, these holes will get plugged and when we *do* move to 9i, it might be closer to being *giggle* unbreakable.
Wouldn't it be great if the inverse also worked?
MS could just announce that "Our software code is like swiss cheese when it comes to security" and #POOF#, all the holes would be sealed for good.
------
Today's Top Deals
Laws to Punish Insecure Software Vendors?
Have a Happy.
...unsinkable didn't mean unsinkable, after all...
A monkey is doing the real work for me.
to hold all the info about you like birthdate, medical records, genetic map, criminal record and all the porn you've ever downloaded?
unless it's coded in Forth.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
Part of me wants to say "Is there ANYONE who still thinks corporate slogans are actually a reflection of the performance of a product?". But then I realize that many, many people who are responsible for purchasing software probably think exactly that.
So I'm not sure how I feel about this, but it will be funny to see Ellison squirm a little bit - this should do wonders for his campaign to be the official database of Big Brother.
"Anyone perfect must be lieing." - Falling For the First Time
- gtaluvit (prnc. GOT-tuh-LUV-it)
~~~
Another proud carrier of the $rtbl flag
I think the flaw here was that Oracle claimed that no one can break into their software. There's always goign to be a way to get into software. It just might take a while. Unless some security team audited every single line of code over and over, which I can't imagine seeing the size of the software, there's goign to be some holes. To make a truly secure piece of software some performance is risked. From what I know of Oracle they pride themselves on performance. So my money says that they took care of the big holes, and missed a few of the smaller harder to exploit holes.
Nate Tobik
ahh, the egg in the basket..
unbreakable
adj.
1. Impossible to break; able to withstand rough usage.
2. Able to withstand an attempt to break.
I dunno. That definition seems to contradict what's happened here.. =D
Tim Dorr
Owner/Manger
A Small Orange
I doubt that most software is unbreakable in their current form. Unless the developer worked to make it unbreakable from the start or rewrote with that objective. And I doubt that it is possible to "fix" software to be unbreakable without doing a rewrite.
Who is suprised at this anyway?
Well, someone in marketing screwed up big time. Last I knew companies couldn't leagaly make such strong claims about a product, espesialy about a security product.
But I guess all this just shows that no matter what security (or anti-piracy if you're the RIAA) measures you put into place, someone will find a way arround it. Although, buffer overflows are not anything new, how did they miss that?
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
given the many discussions on /. of late re: full disclosure of security holes, partial disclosure, disclosure to the company only, etc - what does the crowd here think of the way these exploits have been handled? The story says the Litchfield has commented publicly and explicitly on the nature of one of the holes that already has a patch available, but that he's holding close the holes that have patches still under development.
I guess another question would be, while Oracle is by no means a small company, if the company name started with an M and ended with 'icrosoft' would we be demanding more information?
Ad in classifieds: Pandora's Box (no box) $5
http://saintaardvarkthecarpeted.com/oracle
Carousel is a lie!
Everyone knows just to use the Oracle database and throw away the other apps. Does anyone out there even use their application server?
love is just extroverted narcissism
Oracle9i. Unbreakable. Can't break it. Can't break in.
Legally they are correct. The DMCA says you can't break it, and various other laws say you can't break in.
Apparently they hired Bill Clinton to head their PR Dept. Look at this quote:
everything depends on what your definition of "unbreakable" is.
It may also depend on what your definition of "IS" is.
Were these errors in 8i which was the production release when this all started?
Larry once said that programming a database is more difficult than an OS. Does this absolve any MS exploit that's been found?
I think its a little presumptious (sp.) to say that some program with a server end is "unbreakable". I could always physical hammer the hard disk. However, in terms of exploits vs. complexity, I think Oracle is doing pretty well. Its not like they have CodeRed.
- gtaluvit (prnc. GOT-tuh-LUV-it)
...impossible claim proved wrong. Film at eleven. I can't tell if Ellison's claim that Oracle was bulletproof was the act of a madman or genius. Why genius? Nothing gets security experts to test your software with such vigor than when you tell them it's invulnerable. Question is, does this make the NSA more or less secure in choosing Oracle products?
- How long and how many holes as compared to other products of the type?
- How fast does it get fixed?
These is the main questions.Do we have to ask what is is?
Fight Spammers!
Wasn't Oracle harping to provide the database infrastructure for a proposed national ID card?
Of course, if this ever gets to legislation, a non-tech Senator or Congressman will probably remember seeing the "Unbreakable" campaign somewhere and think, "Oh... their systems are unbreakable, sounds good for everyone's private information."
Can't wait for every bored teenager in the world to know about my tax returns...
Some men spend their entire lives trying to kill themselves for having been born. --Ross MacDonald
As any other marketing campaigh this one had as a goal to make everybody to talk about RDBMS. And the goal is acheaved apparently.
As much as I would want Larry to shut up - he is a stand up comediant somewere deep inside, and you can not shut this type up. So let's at least have fun listening to him.
i would have to loved to have been a fly on the wall in the oracle engineering department the day ellison announced that their software was unbreakable. i guarantee you the engineers at oracle wouldn't have supported that campaign, if they even knew about it before ellison announced it at comdex. it's tough enough to keep your software secure when your ceo isn't directly taunting every hacker in the world.
They call me Mr. Glass...
I guess I've been living in a cave then...
Didn't they start this campaign to get 'hacked' ? so they could close some more holes they couldnt find them selves ?
Now i wonder, it worked they all readdy found 7!
Quazion.
By essentially daring people to find holes, Oracle gets QA for the cost of embarassment, which I suspect for L.E. is about one cent.
The clearance system sounds logical. It is not. It is completely arbitrary. -- John Bolton
That leaves me feeling warm and fuzzy inside.
When you go to sign the licence for the product, write in a warranty from Oracle that the software's unbreakable. (& when Oracle refuses to sign, phone the FTC).
Demanding vendors to step up to the mark of their own advertising is one way to deal with this kind of fraud.
"The Oracle database server itself runs on some sixty odd different operating systems,"
How many non-odd operating systems does it run on??
Why is there only one Monopolies commission?
Had an argument about this awhile back.....the database listener services are not usually trusted as a secure thing for the outside world in my somewhat limited experience, there is always some kind of application layer as the public interface to these things (these days the outside world's interface is often HTTP based), particularly for services accessed over a WAN. How many people out there have oracle listening to an open port on the internet ?
And its all slashdots fault! Thats the last time i compile the linux kernel in my stomach!
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization.
(this is twenty years old)
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
Comment removed based on user account deletion
In the other news, the largest ship in the world Titanic that was named unsinkable, has sunk.
Comments by the CEO: -Well, you can take it both ways, really, we are defining what Unsinkable really means! The other ship building companies in our field are looking up to us to be half as unsinkable as we are. It's great, really, how our compain brings the best out of this situation.
"We believe the market effect of the 'Unsinkable' campaign raises the unsinkability bar and therefore improves unsinkability overall, both in forcing us to live up to the statement, and forcing others in the industry to begin to do the same," wrote Bruce Ismay. "If our unsinkability today is imperfect but better than the competition, and if customers make a buying decision based on that criteria, than in the long term you will see all products in the market improve."
You can't handle the truth.
The fact that defense in depth is a good idea does not justify allowing one of the layers to be weak. The defenses at every level should be as strong as possible, and that ideally means a bug-free app server and a bug-free database.
and the USA about the titanic
Larry would likely end up in prison for some of the inflammatory stuff he says, if he weren't one of the richest asshoerr guys in the world. Imagine his mouth vs. a cop, judge, jury..
Hell, i'd like to see a Gates vs. Ellison boxing match on pay-per-view, as long as the money didn't go to either of them (and they had to match 1000 to 1). Seeing as they are both a little lanky, it could be interesting. Just let them use physical equivilants of business tactics.
I'm sure oracle has to struggle to meet the goals spewed larry's big mouth. A "The president just said WHAT on national tv" type response, i.e. NASA in the 60's.
Oh, wait. We only arrest people from countries where extradition isn't a problem.
Ignorance IS bliss!
What happens when Unbreakable Larry Elliott's Unsinkable ego runs into an iceberg called reality?
Thrill as the largest man-made ego in the world shows it too can make a mistake! Gasp as the master engineer makes a crucial error that sinks the RMS Unbreakable! Cry as the star-crossed developers try to escape the sinking PR disaster! Bemoan the lack of escape boats for the VPs who will pay for Ellison's boast!
I swear, can't tell who we need to get first, Gates or Ellison. Neither one is good for computing.
________________________________________ History Must Not Fall Into The Wrong Hands ___________________________________
The only thing that this researcher proved is that in certain environments you can break in the system, which basicly holds true for every system.
No matter what, you can be sure that contrary to M$, these holes will be worked on 24/7 and fixed like yesterday. :)
Anyway, enjoy you uninformed, senseless bashing and flaming... trolls.
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
The reality of it is that most DBAs, programmers and database developers in the working world scoffed at the ad campaign the moment it began. Sure, Oracle has a great product, but we all knew it wasn't bulletproof, no matter how may awards for "best of class security" it supposedly won.
The only real losers in this, other than organizations whose Oracle databases were victimized by a security flaw, were the corporate purchasers who were sold on the hype. They'll have to live with the fact that their DBMS isn't "unbreakable." Honestly, though, there are relatively few of those (none I can think of that are well-publicized, at least), as they are usually run on well locked-down *nix boxes.
It's not anything new. It's just agressive advertising. Some might argue that it's false advertising, but that's probably being a bit harsh. It's more like...overly boastful advertising.
My sigs always suck.
Come on people. Oracle explained that they used the term "unbreakable" because it passed 14 security audits. Some people say you can't crash linux because it typically doesn't - but it can.
:-)
By and large the Oracle products are very good... We use them in some extremely large and significant datawarehousing situations and have probably managed to kill the server once in three years. Many times we've been amazed at what developers have thrown at the server without killing it - Oracle is very good at recovering from users mistakes.
Anyway, I look forward to hearing what the obvious vulnerabilities are - I dread the number of server upgrades to be tested though. The client I'm working for now has about 250 instances registered with their 24*7 DBA team already... You have no idea how hard it can be to choose a unique 4 character SID sometimes.
Long live Oracle... I'm sure Larry won't lose any sleep (or money) over this since it is still clearly the best product out there.
After reading the article, it struck me as funny how things never change. There are tons of PHB's out there buying up any big flashy ad in their free (if you fill out free survey, otherwise pay $XXX a year) industry mags. I am a Windows user (yeah yeah) but at least I am not stupid enough to buy anything first from Microsoft until they come out with one service pack first. Of course, here at unnamed large x86 cpu company (my company contracts here), they have decided to move to Microsoft's tune within 90 days of them releasing a product. So we have people (not just IT people, HR people, finance people) etc... installing the wonderful IT "engineered" version of WinXP. (Don't get me started on how in the world they think they make Microsoft's stuff more stable through their "engineering".) That anyone would buy into Larry's BS is bizarre. But the PHB's are entirely ignorant of the real world and would gladly believe that Windows XP is crashproof and utterly stable if Bill told them so. I hope somebody has their Oracle9i system hacked and then sue's Oracle for false advertising, amongst other things. --Shango
--ngoy
I guess it depends on how you define "unbreakable", eh?
:-)
Just like how you might define "sexual relations" huh?
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman" (it was the cigar that did!!!) I just keep wondering if he smoked the cigar afterwards?
I love the part where the chief security officer Mary Ann Davidson says it depends on the definition of "unbreakable". HUH? Where have I heard that kind of reasoning before? Sounds more like she should be head of marketing.
How many people out there have oracle listening to an open port on the internet ?
Specifically, I know two companies that use Oracle, and neither of them have it on an open IP address (recommended by the company I work for.)
However, I also know companies that use MS-SQL - and THREE of them have it listening on an open port on the internet (against my recommendations) because "they have to for their software to work properly" (Two of these companies also run other services, such as Exchange SMTP/POP3 on their MS-SQL server.)
I'm sure there are (MCSE-run) Oracle installations out there that are open to the internet.
As if ANYONE on this site hasn't ever had to explain something that a some moron ^H^H^H^H^H^H manager said could or couldn't be done..
HIS boss is still the boss, wtf is he supposed to say?
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
It's nothing a little crazy glue won't fix. There. Good as new.
Ah... crazy glue. I love this little toob, makes alllll my problems go away wayw ay2ay
Anyone got a mirror? It seems that securityfocus.com is suffering from a DDoS attack.
Admittedly, but COME ON Dave, it's just not CATCHY. Slogans are often misleading or linguistically incorrect. Here is a list of "catchy slogans" that are either also false, irrelevant, or just silly enough just to point out.
Slogan [Product/Firm]
sig
It was a marketing ploy and any professional administator who looked at and said "wow, unbreakable, lets buy it" probably wasn't a professional at all.
It's not surprising that a system as complex as Oracle is going to have security flaws. However if you mistaken believed that Oracle had created the perfect piece of software, may I suggest you stow it away in the closet next to your Abdominizer and set of stay-sharp-steak-knives.
He who defends everything, defends nothing. -- Fredrick The Great
Exactly, there should be a nice secure firewall between any database and the internet!
Normal people worry me!
Something is wrong with this 'unbreakable' business: My shampoo is in an unbreakable bottle and yet everyday a little seems to get out. Funny, huh...
"The word un-blow-upable is tossed around a lot these days but..."
(BOOM)
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
I dunno... I think Larry could take Bill.
Larry looks more than a little like The Rock in this photo. Ever notice how you never see both The Rock and Ellison together at the same time? Hmmm? Coincidence? Perhaps not.
(with Apologies to Elwood Blues)
Seriously, though, IMNSHO they should get charged under the truth in advertising laws.
But what is the rest?
Imperium et libertas
Autocracy and freedom
Mabye Oracle really is unbreakable, with only a weakness for haxxors instead of water?
Perhaps now we will find out that Larry Ellison is an evil supervillin...
(couldn't resist)
I don't really mind double posts on
A software company said to the public, "Our product is unbreakable." The public replied, "No, you are not unbreakable."
Another software company said to the public, "Our product is not unbreakable." And the public replied, "You're right, you are not unbreakable."
Have you ever met Larry? Or better yet, played a little basketball with him? Trust me, he'd kick Bill's ass up and down the ring. Larry is/was quite the fitness fanatic. He's very athletic and extremely outgoing. While I personally think Oracle is a hunk of junk, I definetly respect the man....something I can't say about Bill.
there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots
Making matters worse for Oracle, it turns out that those holes were little more than a prelude to a suite of at least seven vulnerabilities currently in the company's patch pipeline -- all of them discovered by Litchfield last fall. Assuming fixes are available in time, Litchfield plans to present the holes at a security conference in early February, including details of serious bugs that allow attackers to both "break it" and "break in."
Hmm. Discovered in the fall. *Hoping* the patch will be ready by February.
Count me unimpressed.
Oracle chief security officer Mary Ann Davidson ... suggested that everything depends on what your definition of "unbreakable" is.
break (DAMAGE)
verb
to (cause to) separate suddenly or violently into two or more pieces, or to (cause to) stop working by being damaged
(Cambridge online dictionary)
She appears to have a good point there; I don't suspect that Oracle database servers will start to separate violently into two or more pieces when this is exploited, and they probably wont be damaged to the point where they stop working either.
It's on-ly MOST-ly unbreakable.
If it was ALL unbreakable, there's not much you could do but check its pockets for loose change.
I hadn't heard that either, i just knew from other people talking about Oracle that it was supposed to be good.
By the way, here is where i've been living
Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?
Personally, i think he looks a lot more like Azmodeus.
"Hello, helpdesk? I need to edit the Oracle config files, and I forgot the Oracle user's unix password."
"Hello, helpdesk? Brad Pitt's a friend of mine and will go out with you if you give me the root password for the Oracle box."
Great, so Clinton's wrangling over the true meaning of the word 'is' has spilled over into the marketing gurus ath major companies... this is just double unplus good.
Humorless sig goes here.
If the government is going to hold copies of that, then I don't need to waste the disk space on my own. Let's get a modern FOIA together that will compel the government to give us personal access to the database info on/about us! Also, if they've got everyone else's stuff, as well, they should be able to offer me porn^N^N^N^N medical advice similar to that which I already make, um, use of.
Get off my launchpad!
If it's "let's attack the binary and see if we can break it", that's potentially harder to catch something like this, but then again, how hard can it be to see if the binary links against the system C library at the known offsets of gets, fgets, sprintf, etc.
What would be lamest of all is if the certification process goes something like, "What's your security engineering process? Oh, sounds secure to us."
...then saying something is unbreakable, is believing that it really is.
Oracle 10, code-named "Titanic", to be released later this year.
I mean, c'mon, what was Larry thinking? NOTHING is absolutely unbreakable, indestructible, unsinkable, uncrashable, immortal, or [insert superlative of choice here].
Will people never learn?
maybe Oracle's ad people should take out a full-page ad in some newspapers with an open letter beginning "dear users: you could be worse off. a LOT worse off." at least the public pissing match between Oracle and Microsoft would be highly entertaining.
in the meantime, Oracle needs to smack their ad people upside their heads. *nothing* is unbreakable; that's the "Titanic lesson" that was mentioned earlier in the comments. there's always an iceberg.
It's a bold assertion, and like all marketing slogans, probably somewhat less than true. However, I ask the following question, what other manufacturer with an installed base of software on the order of Oracle's (size and complexity) could make such a claim and not be IMMEDIATELY laughed off the face of the planet?
People actually took the time to prove it. That says a lot. Almost any other manufacturer would have had outstanding open security bugs that could have been pointed to at the time the statement was made.
In the end, if nothing else, Oracle got a lot of free security testing out of it. And their installed base WILL be the better for that experience. So the marketing actually bought them something positive.
...because this is the first that I've heard of this.
The more I've thought about this, the more likely it seems. And a key aspect to this is that my OS vendor, SuSE, and ilk (Red Hat, Mandrake, etc) would be nailed just as much as MS, except with less money in the bank, they would be killed much more swiftly. Now, two of those are outside of the USA, so it's not a direct correlation, but there are some serious ramifications to software liability that occur in as reactive a society as we have today.
Certainly this announcement would instantly have a dozen law firms seeking people running Oracle to launch a multi-billion dollar suit of some flavor. And while certainly not "unbreakable", and (IMO) a bit overpriced, Oracle being available is a Good Thing. Of course they have holes. I'm equally sure that they will likely address them quickly (Quickly being relative to the company involved). Introducing *sane* liability (at least in America) is going to be very difficult in a society that is making it neigh impossible to be a medical doctor, and is driving up medical costs due to the extensive CYA documentation (videotapes, extensive reports, etc) now required by industry insurance.
--
Evan "I'm pretty sure this is ontopic" E.
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Laws mentioned in the other article that would punish poorly secured software should target stuff like this, where software is advertized as absolutely secure. Whenever someone claims that open source software can be as insecure as commercial couterparts, they often forget that nobody says that open source is absolutely secure, often its "we think it secure, but we're not completely certain". Companies like Oracle and Microsoft instead try and advertise it as absolutely secure and give managers warm fuzzy feelings about software, to the pont where they think they don't have to worry about it ever again.
Let's prove them wrong :-)
revealed that a common programming error -- a buffer overflow -- was present in Oracle's application server, potentially allowing hackers to gain remote access to the system over the Internet.
If the researcher is referring to Oracle 9i application server, it's really Orion Server. Since Orion is pure Java implementation, the threat is pretty low. Reguardless, the Orion developers will fix it. They're pretty quick about bug fixes.
We can actually interject ourselves in between that communications process and run commands as SYSTEM on Windows NT or 2000. If it's running on a Unix system, we can run commands as the Oracle user remotely
I'm not sure what this bug is referring to specifically, but it most likely is related to Oracle's GUI administration tool. If the user can run Unix commands, that doesn't necessarily mean a person can erase all the data. The suggested installation is to have the server run under the Oracle user. If ownership is root and the priv. is execute only, an instance would only be vulnerable to "kill -9". To erase the actual data, the cracker would have to login to the instance and delete the data.
I've done some crazy tests with sql server 6 and oracle 8i on low end hardware and I have to say oracle out performs sql server hands down. This is no excuse for Oracle though. They still need to back up that slogan with real blood.
An Apology To Sybase Customers: Oracle Will Never Give You A Million Dollars
m l
:D
"Oracle has issued a bold offer. They'll give a million dollars to any DB2, WebLogic or SQL Server user who switches to Oracle technology and fails to triple the performance of their website. Pretty impressive talk."
http://www.sybase.com/detail/1,6904,1015763,00.ht
Sounds like Sybase should have a "Sorry, we won't lie to you like Oracle did." campaign!
Thanks,
--
Matt
Ahh yes, the obligatory "let's kick around ________,a non-open source company" article of the day.
What can Oracle do to prevent me from taking a expensive Tektronix Oscilloscope and probe the memory bus of the machine it runs on?
That US Govt. didn't take Larry up on his offer.
5 21 9&mode=thread
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/09/23/223
Next thing you know, they are gonna be telling us that Windows XP isn't the most secure OS ever. Shocking!
sic transit gloria mundi
So let's see if I have all of these straight:
By the time the revolution comes, there are gonna be so many Corporate Newspeak motherfuckers that we'll have to build a bigger wall to put them up against.
"What is the sound of one belly slapping?"
The unique thing about software is that it is infinitely clonable. Once you've written a subroutine, you can call it as often as you want. This means that almost everything we do as software developers is something that has never been done before. This is very different than what construction workers do. Herman the Handyman, who just installed a tile floor for me, has probably installed hundreds of tile floors. He has to keep installing tile floors again and again as long as new tile floors are needed. We in the software industry would have long since written a Tile Floor Template Library (TFTL) and generating new tile floors would be trivial.
h tml
from http://www.joelonsoftware.com/news/fog0000000337.
..."unbreakable" doesn't really mean unbreakable, or something...
Oracle said that 9i "is unbreakable". As President Clinton could easily tell you, the key word here is 'is'.
They'll give a million dollars to any DB2, WebLogic or SQL Server user
Isn't Microsoft SQL Server a Windows-based database server based on Sybase?
all your database are belong to usWill I retire or break 10K?
How does PostgreSQL compare to Oracle? Is PostgreSQL more or less secure than Oracle? I don't know. I've never heard of a problem with it nor have I had one. Is PostgreSQL faster or slower than Oracle? I don't know, and apparently Oracle desperately doesn't want anyone to find out. From benchmarks that have had Oracle results deleted to benchmarks that someone (I wonder who?) has gotten the ISP to remove for "violation of our Terms of Service" (this used to be a benchmark), Oracle is very aggressive in preventing anyone from finding out how their database really performs. I wonder why? (However what might be another version of the second benchmark seems to have survived by carefully avoiding the mention of names of proprietary products.) All I know is that after trying to deal with the bloat of Oracle on a less-than-mainframe-class PC, PostgreSQL was a lean, mean breath of fresh air. Converting PL/SQL to PL/pgSQL was easy, too.
$0 for a copy of PostgreSQL
$2000 for a firewall
$1000 for a thorough security consultation
$7000 for beer & chicken wings
I suppose posturing and unbelievable claims are what you can expect from a company whose CEO looks like The Rock.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
When you get to the airport, they want to see your Larry-Ellison-approved National ID Card, or at least several forms of ID, take off your hat, jacket, shoes, belt, cellphone, beeper, PDA, and steel hip joint, and then decide whether to let you ride on the airplane you bought a ticket for. But when Larry Ellison gets to the airport, he gets on his own plane. Does he have to go through the security gate where they check his National ID card and say "Sorry, Mr. Ellison, you've gotten 15 tickets for violating quiet hours at San Jose Airport by landing after midnight, so we're not going to take the Big Orange Boot off your airplane wheel unless you show us a flight plan that gets you in by 11pm?" Not bloody likely.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Where did he say he wants _all_ our information in a central database? There is a world of difference between having a reasonably secure national ID system that contains reasonable identification measures and _all_ of information (e.g., habits, medical history, etc) in one system. As much as I find Ellison a despicable person, please do not put words in his mouth or misrepresent the words of anyone that might advocate this. It may well be true that he wants that to sell his product, but that's not the same as actually advocating that. Furthermore, this same argument could be said for MS or the developers of mysql even...
Interesting you should mention that they are defining what "unsinkable" should mean. Check out this garbage:
They should have said: "Unbreakable compared to Sendmail", or "Unbreakable compared to MS SQL server with the default password". Or how about "Unbreakable compared to BIND"?
Also notice in the quote I pasted the last word: "misstatement".
WTF is a misstatement? The author isn't George Orwell, so there is no reason for him to use DoubleSpeak. It's a lie. Call it what it is and stop being a lying wimp.
> Buffer overflow bugs can be prevented by a
> middle-school hacker. This is elementary stuff.
> Doesn't anybody believe in putting limits on
> characters? This is simple to prevent.
This is pure bullshit. Are the programmers of
Apache, IIS, Half-Life, Quake 3 Arena, Perl, SSHD, glibc, wu_ftpd, or BIND at the middle school level? Windows NT? How about the linux kernel? All have had buffer overflows, and I'll bet that many of them still do.
Unfortunately it is not always as simple as "putting limits on characters". The simple fact is that the C language is practically designed to make buffer overflow bugs easy to write and easy to exploit.
I agree with you that buffer overflows are serious, though. That's why I think it is ridiculous that we still write security-critical network software in C. Sometimes it is hard to get around, like in the linux kernel when you need to do hardware access (a microkernel architecture might make it easier to write certain parts in higher-level languages). You might argue that performance would be impacted (I don't think this is true, especially with network software where the network is the real bottleneck), but even this argument falls through for 99% of users, since most users are far from full utilization of their processor. However, almost all users *are* affected by security holes.
Hmmm... "Oracle is unbreakable" -- why should we expect that to be true? I seem to remember another oft-quoted phrase Larry loved to toss around ... something like "Network computers will be the wave of the very near future". How many years has it been now? *grin*
Groove Salad -- a nicely chilled plate of ambient grooves and beats.
Oracle 8i not only failed to be SQL99 compliant, but wasn't even compliant with SQL92! Certainly it may be scalable (upwards... it sure as hell ain't downwards-scalable) and more reliable than most smaller solutions, but "very good" is not a label I can see applying to a product that doesn't even make a serious effort to be standards-compliant.
What's more, Oracle holds 14 international security evaluations. IBM DB2 has none. Microsoft SQL Server has only one.
<sarcasm>I bet it was worthwhile getting Upper Volta, Tonga, New Zealand and other hokey 2 bit countries to do the evalutaions...</sarcasm>
AND it doesnt say what the results of these evaluations were.. could have been "we cracked it...."
Burma?
Am I the only one that thinks that Ellison will just cross his arms and say something like "Hey, we may not be totally unbreakable, but we still beat what SQL Server can do. Eat me, Gates! And we're still going through your trash, too!" :)
-Skroob
Oracle was always breakable.
You just need to login as system/manager (or scott/tiger).
99.99% of the admins don't change those default passwords...
When I used to use Oracle it was unbreakable. The only people who had complete access was the DBA and some guy named Scott Tiger....
mostly unbreakable
hummer
Oh wise oracle what does unbreakable mean again!
No sense of humor, then read the next post!
Oracle 9i, for databases as large as Larry Ellison's ego!
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
Go ahead and mark me as a troll...
So who did the evaluations? Authur Anderson?
See, just shred the little piece of paper that says buffer overflow, and the security hole goes a way!
ID is supposed to be AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken, darn text size restrictions!
Let's see, there's the
The Rush Limbaugh Institute for Creative Security Assessment (R-LICSA)
The Larry Said It's Safe (LSIS) Certificate
The We Certify All, Send Us The Money Security Price (WCA/SUTM)
And of course 11 other significant, meaningful and important certificates.
Actually Oracle is pretty secure. This unorganized and arbitrarily scattering of files among a number of disks is so obfuscating that it's pretty secure. If you're in the "Security through Obscurity (STO) camp", that is...
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
and sys/change_on_install...
and anyone who typed "oratclsh" followed by "exec id" and their eyeballs bugged out when they discovered they had h4xD r00t...
seriously, check your database and make sure oratclsh isn't setuid, and the administrative passwords aren't their defaults.
The Germans also thought the same about Enigma...
Actually, the Germans were right. (Given the level of technology at the time...)
If memory serves me, the Allies had to steal a working Enigma (and cover up the theft, lest the Germans change the code) in order to break the code.
It's funny you should mention this, because just last night I wanted to get an order to go from Arby's and was disappointed to find out that they don't even take checks anymore at the franchise down the street.
..."top security manager" doesn't really mean "top security manager", or something.
I think of it this way. If it's written by humans, it's bound to have problems. How many problems depends on the human and how much they care about their project.
I mean, they both lead active fantasy lives... and they sound so much alike!
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Intel rules!!!
ooops...did i say that outloud?
-- Find the Truth...
I need details! How can I make a home-grown nitrogen cooling system and overclock the living daylights out of my system!!!
Dude. Overclocking with a super-cooling system is sooo 1999!
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
The reviews of the P4 say should happen under these conditions.
tcd004
...it just might be able to take the Slashdotting!
Where else can you go from 3500 to 10 when your radiator falls off.
What is that, like 30 G's?
--an unbreakable toy is useful for breaking other toys--
AMD had better come out with a new "Athlon XXXP 3500+" to stay competitive! :)
Just out of curiosity, how much power does one of these 2GHz+ chips use? Combine that chip with the graphics card, the DDR SDRAM, the fans, the perhiperals... those electric meters must spin mighty fast:)
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
Hey Taco, next time you link a Japanese only site, specify it so. I have little time to look at nothing more than a booklet of pretty pictures.
Sure, it's great to take the latest and greatest chips out there and boost the heck out of 'em. But what I want to see are some overclocks of things from a while back. Let's see about pumping some juice through a Pentium 100, or even a 6502C in a Commodore 64. Let's REALLY get impatient for actual powerful, stable chips, and take some PowerPC chips to the tank o' coolant.
You also never see anyone talking about overclocking non-x86 architectures. I'd assume this is due to a lack of BIOS with that kind of speed support, and motherboards without jumpers for clock speeds. But why let that stop us, right?
*insert sarcasm drip here, 50ml hourly*
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
Bart, pick up my finger before the dog eats. This liquid nitrogen stuff makes great frosting.
Great, now I can tell the IRS that I owe them money 1 nanosecond faster....
Seriously, is this news? 10 years from now we'll be hearing... Pentium 8 20GHz chip overclocked to 20.34Ghz!!!
I'm just looking forward to the future when Aliens will no longer have to depend on pentium technology for fun...
well lately it seams that the internal clock of cpu is becoming more insignificant on overall performance of pc...
Who controls the information, controls the world...
This is actually quite the little speed boost they pulled off! Wow. The only thing I would wonder (apart from the cool factor of doing it - pun not intended) is whether or not any existing video cards can now keep up? Is a GF3Ti now the bottle neck? Or memory or what?
;)
Might be good for 3dsMAX renders though
It looks like you just pour the nitrogen into that big metal bucket that sits on the processor. This is more of a novelty than a usable system, I'd bet the nitrogen boils off in less than an hour.
Still, pretty amazing.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
But does it run Windows?
The machine burst into a glorious display of frolicing flames.
Dozings.com -- Its kinda funny... If you're as crazy as me.
A 3.5GHz P4 probably would perform like a 2.5GHz Athlon, given the difference in IPC. However, factor in SMT (HyperThreading) into the equation and it gets a lot more interesting. Hammer will have some competition when it comes out, even with a PR rating of 3400+ - the P4 will probably get to 3GHz by the end of this year.
In the end, the consumer is the one to win. But remember, speed in a processor is only good if the rest of the system can keep up with it. Witness i845 (the SDRAM version) as a way of making a fast P4 perform even worse than before.
I am more interested in the upcoming GeForce 4 and R300 chips myself as a way to increase gaming performance - processor power is secondary, as long as it is sufficient. For rendering performance however, I am interested in fast processors, and it looks likely that SMT P4's will rock with Lightwave 7b on a quad CPU board (8 virtual processors!). Not that I could afford one of these anyway, so the point is moot.
big fucking deal. BFD.
Are at it too.
Here you can see they've got it to boot at 3.674GHz. The page is in Finnish (I assume), but there's some English text at the bottom too.
The Raven.
The Raven
the picture of the results that ISNT IN JAPANESE.
I'll just take *one* of these. :)
Error: PANTS NOT FOUND. Press <F1> to continue.
At what point does the cooling system start to become a problem for the components around the cpu?
Does your HDD or CD like it when the case temp goes wildly up and down? How about the actual motherboard?
And one finnish hw-site has already overclocked 2.2Ghz to 3.675GHz
Sure it's neat to see how cold and therefore fast you can make the latest chip run... for a whole couple minutes (until you run out of liquid gas coolant). What I find more interesting, are innovative solutions to cooling CPU's that are practical, stable and last more than one game of Quake.
'He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot.' - Douglas Adams
the processor can only dissapate so much heat through the silicon/whatever and the heat sink. it seems that that is the weakest link, is the connection between the core and the sink itself. would the processor run cooler w/o the heatsink (as it is disapating heat into the liq nitrogen too, that is in turn cooling the core), or does it really need a heatsink at such absurdly low temps? i understand the need for higher surface area to heat ratio concept, but it seems like with temps as low as -250* F or so, that one wouldn't need that 2" square tubing of copper as a heatsink: just stir the liq nitrogen really well :)
as a side note, that site is entirely in japanese. when is babelfish gonna support japanese? all i got out of that was a picture of the boot screen saying 2250 that was undelined in red. i'd mirror it, but i don't see what you would get out of looking at a bunch of pictures that don't seem to support their claim.
moox. for a new generation.
Now it runs faster than an X-Box.
Much like this article, you'll just have to take my word for it.
Also, I'm running Linux on my Nokia cellphone. I'll try to post some pictures when I can get my NetBSD digital camera to boot.
Beware at 0 degrees Kelvin the whole thing may be become supermagnetic. The cooling device may float of the unit.
And this happens 15 minutes after I submitted my story on the Intel Northwood 2,2GHz overclocked to 3675MHz.
w oo d2200/ln2/index.phtml
http://www.muropaketti.com/artikkelit/cpu/north
Hi
DBresources.com has a post with more info on the Oracle 9i PL/SQL Apache Module bug. Check the article at http://oracle.dbresources.com/
Thanks
Jason
Great! A picture. Wow. I want some details!!! Pretty lame post, since its only a picture, and a link to a nasty japanese web site.
What a tease.
Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
I've got a plot showing SPECint2000 vs SPECfp2000 for eight different chips, including the Pentium 4 2.0 GHz.
From the looks of it, overclocking to 3.5 GHz might make the Pentium 4 almost equal in performance to the IBM Power4 running at 1.3 GHz.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
and a standard abosolute-0 liquid nitrogen cooling peltier, I got my Pentium Pro 200Mhz overclocked to well over 8Ghz. [/sarcasm]
I'll just wait a year (or less) and buy a 3.5 Ghz processor for $150. No muss, no fuss, no meltdown.
Transistors and Beer!!
If I put my Athlon in the microwave, I can get numbers out of it that don't exist in nature.
This tagline is umop apisdn.
Dood you are living in the past, it's all soft-menu now. Most overclockers out there wouldn't know a jumper if they saw one.
Well, if you're factoring large primes it is, but for 99.99% of us it's a non-issue. After all, when was the last time you heard someone talk about spreadsheet recalculation times?
Best Slashdot Co
I've been wondering what to do with those tanks of liquid nitrogen in my garage. I mean, I've got like a hundred gallons of the stuff. Don't we all?
Then again, what's the point? For the expense of raising a 2.2 Ghz chip to a 3.75Ghz, you could buy another 2.2 Ghz system or two.
Are these people implying that you can just go out and buy liquid nitrogen? Or that it is easy to create? Yikes! Where can I get some?
Everything is mainstream now.
That the thing still functions at 77 Kelvin.
Incredible that the motherboard doesn't break, at that low
temperature, the resin should undergo a phase transition and become very, very brittle.
(Some notes for all those D.I.Y.ers out there:
Liquid nitrogen is cheaper than milk.
Short-circuits can't occur, N2 doesn't conduct.)
Although why he used nitrogen and not dry ice, which is cheaper, easier to handle, and probably
better for these purposes, beats me.
Hey, now that's a pretty cool thought. This nice little Sparc Classic I just got up and running a couple weeks ago... Hmmm... A little neon, a window... One of those biohazard stickers, maybe a marble paint job. Oh yeah, baby. A SMOKIN' 50Mhz Sparc.
I sense a new website coming, someday... somewhere.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
...that the same story was submitted with an actual explanation of it all, rather than the Japanese no one can read, by me, and rejected. Cool, motherfuckers, very cool, especially since they had the exact same titles...
Hi!
I am Holicho and the puppet I maid form EngiNearing parts is on slashdot! I am so happy I could eat an omma raw. (Just kidding. Even in Japanese we don't eat ommas raw.)
Here are some pics if you like:
3d mark.
(You can doneload that oen here for free, see how your sistem compares to mie puppet!)
Also, please don't flaim me for running window Me. I know i would get better performan.ce from linux (maybe) but here the government is very strict about what we can download.
Please to ask me any questions, I will answer them here!
Also, don't slashdot my host too much, lib.net, but I think they can receive it!
Sorry mie "Engrish" isn't that good, but I just third-year University student and learn English for five years only...you try speaking Japan after that time! Also, I use a BAD online dictionary some little. I hope you understand me!
You can overclock all you want, but to have an all around fast system you need the appropriate data channels to feed data to this smoking hot CPU. Although bus standards and real, available PC motherboards have gotten a lot better in the past few years, a PC still tends to slow down terribly when given a huge data load to crunch on.
Personally, I still prefer purpose-built well balanced Unix workstations, despite their higher price tag. But then, I am a scientist and not a gamer.
For those who can't read and/or render Japanese characters, here is AltaVista's translation.
I got a P4 1.4GHz at work a few weeks ago. I have a Athlon 800MHz at home. The RC5 client from distributed.net runs at 2.9 Mkeys/s on my home system. My machine at work only runs the client at a whopping 2.4 MKeys. So based on my result, a 3.5GHz P4 would be like a 1.8GHz Athlon.
Flaming/joking aside - anybody know why the RC5 client does so poorly on a P4 compared to a much slower Athlon?
But the newer processors, 800MHz and faster, are what I'm talking about. Modern systems are I/O bound, and likely to remain that way. Do I care if it takes 29 seconds to recompile vs 30 seconds?
Best Slashdot Co
homemade nitrogen cooling system overclocked a P4 from 2.2Ghz to an incredible 3.5ghz.
Quick tip on "overclocking" from Ghz (Gigahertz) to ghz (gravity hertz): Throw your machine out the window. To get to decent speeds, you'll want to be at least on the 4th floor or above.
(Alternate tip: to perceptively increase GHz, throw the Windows out of your machine)
be a whore and save the day.
The problem with using N to cool CPU down is
1. it's dangerious (this doesn't count if you are Iceman)
2. The P4 was running at 3.5Ghz just enough to run the WCPUID program.
3. When condenstion sets in, bye bye, Mobo and CPU
kawai
Condensation. All stop.
When my friend used LN2 to cool a ppro, he had big issues with condensation on the bottom of the cpu.
So, does anybody overclock PDA's?
Imagine a Beowulf cl*whack*
Owww . . .
I'd be running one of these, and my wife'll pound on the door complaining that she can't get the oven hot enough.
Chika Chik-ah... do-e ow ow.
[H]ardOCP beat your pants off with this story... stop surfing porn with Maldo and you would have seen that...
I don't drink because I have to, I drink to stop the voices in my head!
Ha! Maybe now he can compile a kernel as fast as a 1.66GHz Athlon XP?
Why not overclock an Athlon ? That would be more interesting to see benchmarks of IMHO
Anyone know what would happen if you supercooled the whole mess, MB, Memory and all ?????
Years ago they used to supercool supercomputer, why not now ? Liquid nitogen is fairly benign.
Sig went tro...aahemmm.....fishing........
Babelfish *says* it supports japanese, but i couldn't get it to work today.
Only 128MB ram? What is this, the Eighties?
-- Dan
I meant "find prime factors". And I was a math major, too. Hope Prof. Heath isn't reading this thread.
Best Slashdot Co
Why don't we combine this OCed CPU with the coolant system mentioned earlier today and kill two birds with one stone? Eventually they could build a hovercomputer!
That's Mr. Eradicator to you.
trance-port
Think about it. 0.13micron tech vs. 0.18micron tech. Gee, I wonder what happens when AMD moves to 0.13micron? Won't take them very long. It's sort of like the Voodoo5 vs. GeForce argument. You can't really compare it in terms of tech, since Voodoo5 was using something to the effect of a RAID 0 for video cards while GeForce was still one chip! Granted, someone will jump in right away and say that GeForce wasn't designed for multi-GPU, but that's not what the point is!
Speaking as someone who does digital design: I would *never* overclock a chip on a system that I wanted to be reliable unless I knew that the manufacturer was deliberately marketing their chips at a lower speed than they were capable of. There are just too many ways that this can bite you.
The main problem is that you just don't know when you have gone over the line. Overclocking might be suitable in most cases except that one critical path which doesn't get executed very much.
That being said, for getting the latest gaming system, overclock to your heart's content. Who cares if the game crashes once in a while?
...but how am I supposed to fit that in my case?
It'd be nice to run the web server on that 3.5 Ghz, but without more bandwidth, you're still slashdotted...
do not read this line twice.
I broke open my $1800 mac, trusting my non-existant soldering skills and did it, and a $20 upgrade for 25% extra performance was really something. I could almost run Marathon on it :>)
I sneer at the BIOS OCers, if it doesn't require solder then I don't want it :>)
Keep this in mind when you overclock P4's. Do you remember that slashdot story about a year ago when the P4's first came out? They talked about the proc idling if it got too hot, so a lot of the 1.5GHz procs were running at 750Mhz a lot of the time. When you overclock a P4 with a higher voltage, you have to keep in mind that it will slow down the ACTUAL speed to become more stable. Remember THIS? The CPU slowed down by about 4 fold when the heatsink was removed (The Quake III framerate went from about 100 to 25 in a timedemo, watch the video).
Keep this in mind when you are talking about ovewrclocking P4's. There's little difference between running a 2GHz proc with all the clocks used and running a 3GHz proc with 2/3 cloks used.
The P4 has such an ass-sucking FPU as to need a 3.5 GHz to keep up with a Slot 'A' 600 MHz Athlon.
My Japanese is a little.. well, ok, I don't know any but I gather from this picture and this picture that 3 Ghz isn't all that hard to do. Apparently an array of copper heatsinks and a few extra fans can squeeze that extra speed without the use of nitro. This looks like a much more efficient way to cook an omelette than the posted nitro method.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
Overclocking for the rest of us.
-matt
But I didn't overclock the processor - I overclocked the ISA bus!
The standard speed for an ISA bus is about 8 MHz, but my motherboard had jumpers for running it at different speeds. I had that baby running at 20MHz, and was lucky enough to find an ISA video card and network card that could run at that speed!
It really helped bump up the FPS when playing doom. <g>
I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
We have 3 stories all pointing to the same link. The first one is moderated as Redundant, the second is +5 insightful and the third is +3 insightful. How can something be redundant if it's the first post?
I think these guys are getting dangerously close to cause irreparable harm to the universe as discussed here.
I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
i always used to get fastest speed on x86 cpus, when i used to throw them from the top of WTC. but now they don't exist, i will just overclock the chips.
http://holicho.lib.net/othters/020109_01.gif
why does MMX+ show up as not supported?
Aren't those Intel extensions?
If not, then what?
Pretty much all you have to do to set overclocking records in Finland is put a jacket on and open a window.
to 5mhz, but then the cassette interface failed.
Ummmm...what do you call OpenFirmware that's in Macs and Suns?
Insightful? Informative? Did those two even follow the link? Presumably the Funny moderator did.
Sheeeet, I oughta donate all my karma to something usful, like advancements in cheese spreads.
Infuriate left and right
As we prepare for *BSDS funeral, just remember Be0S died to. We look in the software grave yard and we also see Microsoft Sex and GNU Penis in the grave yard, 2 very popular programs in their day.
Here is a Apple Video of the megahetz myth. It basically explains why a bigger Mhz doesnt always mean more perforance when it comes to things like pipeline length and recursive instructions.
The microwave radiation coming out of this thing eventually kills the user.
Anyone ever tried to overclock a PSP, cude or 'xBox'?
Arghhh, I hate saying | writing ms product name.....
What about a printer cpu?
or a iPod cpu, palm, etc etc.
Yeah, and now we can overclock our fridge..thanks to LG and their Internet Fridge.
DON'T Trust unstable operating systems at high speed! As with most things, going faster increases the likleyness of a CRASH!
Everyone is talking about condensation being a problem with this setup. Would this be an issue if you immersed the entire mobo including all cards in liquid nitrogen? Just leave the cables sticking out which wouldn't matter about condensation as long as they were insulated properly.
That one would be fun. It was unusably fast on a 386.
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
Using only a cattle prod I've managed to overclock my hamster wheel to a whopping 94 rpm. Unfortunatly it sprays sh#t everywhere during trials. Photos coming soon..
Busy aligning my non-linear thoughts.
Does it run doom in 200 instances simultaneously?
Maybe somebody could connect terminals to it and
have a LAN party without the LAN.
mod this shit down
Nice experiment. Very nerdy.
So where does one obtain LN2 for experimentation?
I overclocked the 6809 in my TRS-80 Color Computer to a L33T 1.97MHz!!!! PH3AR!!!
Here you go, script kiddies:
10 REM SKR1P7 WR1TT3N 8Y P()()T!!!!
20 POKE 65497,1
30 ? "W00T"
After a while oh say 3 hours, the stuff isn't going to be able to cool it... How can this person get it out and put in another cooler batch... Does he cyphon it out with a house? I don't think it would be a big hit at the all night lan games :-)
"You win again Gravity!" -Futurama (Zapp)
... now how about some faster hard drives? Seriously I sit in front of my P4 1.7, and my T-Bird 800, which both have extremely fast hardware, but I wait for the hard drive to load large graphics, save files, etc... When do we get 10,000 RPM Hard drives? What happened to Serial IDE? Wasn't that supposed to be the next big thing? A hard drive spinning at 7200 RPM, and transfer rates of 100 MB/s really are a huge bottleneck now. And don't say we don't need anything faster than that, I'm pretty sure we don't need anything faster than 2GHz for our home computers either... I don't have enough money for Fibre Channel... would be nice though.
You can actually overclock quite a lot of Mac systems, way back to the 68k's.
F.e. you can OC the original iMacs (don't know about the new ones, but I had one running on 300Mhz, up from 233), the G4 Sawtooths and quite a bit of the older machines and clones.
However, this often requires soldering on or removing transistors on the motherboard, as is the case with todays G4s.
One notable exception to this are the PowerMacs based on the Yosemite motherboard (Blue & White G3 and the Yikes! PowerMac G4, which had a modified Yosemite). They have transistors on the motherboard and its remarkably easy to change the bus speed and clock speed.
For a good source on Mac overclocking, check out www.xlr8yourmac.com.
The Commodore 64 actually uses a 6510 CPU, thank you very much. Also, as someone else pointed out, you can't really overclock the C64 unless you disable the display and cool everything else evenly, since the whole machine is tied to one clock rate.
--JoeProgram Intellivision!
Try your local welding gas store.
IIRC, LN2 is a byproduct of Liquid Oxygen production. It's a happy coincidence, so it's relatively cheap.
The refridgerators to make it aren't, though. So you end up pouring a constant stream of it into your system, and being plugged into their 'scheduled delivery' system worse than a crack addict.
That's when it gets expensive.
Just kidding... they're not quite that bad. Close, though.
"...America's great minds of today, teaching America's great minds of tomorrow. Poor bastards." -- A Beautiful Min
I mean, I like my computer, its fast, its great. In my country, fast computers are good to have. But think about this for some momentz. For every fast computer, there's also a slow computer. That slow computer is no good. You wait for things to happen, they happen, or maybe they dont happen. When things dont happen, do you cry? No you dont cry, you overclock your computer so that something happens. And when it happens, it feelz great.
But if you dont overclock you computer, and something doesnt happen, you really feel like a loser. So when you overclock it, you feel like a winner. and thats how i answered my own question.
_________________
EBAY SAFETY TIPZ!
i've played a little bit with cryogenics in Phys Chem lab, and while LN2 rocks, liquid helium is an order of magnitude colder (4K vs. 77K, also $14.99 a liter, $0.89/L for LN2)...begging the question, what would happen if you used liquid helium to cool your system? iirc, silicon is a superconductor at 4K. would the superconductivity short out the chip (by making the substrate conductive), or would you be able to crank it up to any speed you want, say a few THz? (/no/ resistance = /no/ heat) it'd be a real bitch to manage, and you'd have to sink your whole motherboard in the very-well-insulated LH (but then eveything would be @ 4K and superconducting...hmm...1GHz FSB?), but could it work?
just a little food for thought.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
I think I hold the record, I overclocked my 120 to a 133mHz. (You can laugh now) I also upgraded to 32 megs of ram (You can laugh more now)
I once shot a man who posted too many, "Imagine a beowulf cluster of these"
So this has accouplished what? The Nitrogen system is not a consumer viable option, nor does it look like it will be in the near future. What has succesfuly been accomplished here is we've kicked up only one part of the computer's actual speed.
I'll actualy be impressed when the bus speed is fast enough to make this new processor speed usable. And don't forget to bump up the drive speed, and improve the seek time. No, this doesn't seem like a very useful machine at the moment, at least not for consumers.
I do think it's fairly cool that this speed is reachable, but as the subject says, this is like putting a dragster engine in a VW Beetle. It can get nice speeds, but is it actualy useable anywhere?
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Now, if I overclocked my Duron 900 to 1800, my thesis would be ready in half the time? In fact, I could change the running speed simply in the BIOS to be 1200. That would increase my productivity about 30%, right? If I had a better machine right when I started my studies, I'd have gratuated years ago. This is depressing.
The RC5 client has optimized cruncher cores for several CPU's, using instructions that are either unique to that CPU, or that are uniquely faster than in other CPU's.
Very little production software is optimized for a specific instruction set these days (MMX and 3DNow! instructions used in gfx software being partial exceptions).
On the PowerPC point, the relatively lower clock rate is terribly misleading; most instructions execute in fewer clock cycles than in Pentium type computers.
I recall, in the olden days, counting clock cycles & such to optimize Z80 asm code for size or speed as necessary. Ahhh, the good ol' days (not)!
Hey, who gave you linux? Some Finnish dude. Hey, who created Max Payne? Some Finnish game designers. Hey, who shows you how to overclock
using liquid nitrogen... you guessed it!
It's good to be Finnish.
.
You're Just Jealous Because The Voices Are Talking To Me.
Looks like Moore's Law is right again.
:D
Of course, considering the exponential advancement of processor speed, you'd expect processor-taxing software to develop at the same rate. I suppose I'm a power user (*humbled*) but I have yet to see any significant reason to upgrade my P3-550 Mhz machine; it takes just about everything I throw at it. Except calculating pi, of course
First everyone has to question the integrity of these overclocks. Especially when there have been so many people who have been using "tricks" to make programs such as WCPUID think that the computer is running actually faster than it is. (The infamous Speed Hack which plagued game servers for one).
Also, spending an insane amount of money on Liquid Nitrogen just so you can run a computer for an hour or too is not a viable solution to anything. There is absolutely no stability, and the danger to the CPU is 1000X greater then most common overclocking.
I know that the "Wow" factor of having a chip being able to reach the 3.6-3.7ghz mark may impress some. It seems to me that their money (and time) could be better spent elsewhere.
But is a carpeted floor the best place for your motherboard?
Shift happens. Fire it up.
Electrical Tape and Styrofoam vs. Steel Strips and Copper bowls- Which do you trust when overclocking your spare P4's?
Now Windows will only take 10 minutes to load!
Why don't you guys ever have any articles on underclocking? Are underclockers really that bad? What are some of the advantages of underclocking?
- Underclock a 2.0GHz to 1.0Ghz, and you can throw away your CPU fan.
- Underclock to 500MHz and you can get rid of your case fan.
- Underclock to 4.77Mhz and you can run older versions of Fligh Simulator.
- Underclock to 4.0 MHz and you can pretend you are running a Z80.
- Underclock too 100KHz and you can actually watch your instructions exeecute.
uhu right and how long did it run Quake for.. oh it didnt even boot windows? >>
I ovarcloked my mouse!!!!!!!!!!!1
butt then a h3x0r broke in and stoel my megahurtz!!
All they did was overclock the P4 by ~67% over the rated speed. That is all, according to them, to be "the current world record"?
... that is a 100% overclock over the rated speed. So tell me which is better? 67% or 100%
Well what about my old Intel Celeron 300A? Though I still have 4 of these, one of them is stable at 600 MHz WITHOUT the need of liquid nitrogen
I'm still running a p2 350 - well, that's my fastest machine anyways. I don't have a real reason to upgrade, other than my dxr2 card doesn't output a strong enough signal to be usable anymore - so maybe a 550 or so would do so software dvd is flawless... but really, I know there ARE reasons for processors this fast - but are there any real reasons to upgrade to one from, say, a p3 800 or so? Does it really matter if you get 140fps or 180fps in a game?
now - heavy divx encoding and rendering farms I can see... but a common desktop (or even high end gaming desktop)?
Hmm, technically I use a gigahertz at work - but that's not *my* box. Doesn't perform much better.
cyn, free software and *nix operating systems enthusiast.
Woohoo! Nothing like a .05% increase in computing power over the .05% increase that a 2.4 Ghz P4 upgrade provides! Get a friggin life.
look ma I can make a 2 hour 1280 x 1024 rez. movie in 10 min.
If you look in the 2002 guinness world records book it says the fastest computer is the RS/6000 ASCI White, clocked at a blazeing 12 THz (tera-hertz) with 160 terabytes of ram. it is used to calulate virutual nuke test.
I got 10 bucks saying someone alredy hacked and loaded seti @ home.
forget one P4, I want to see a dual Athlon MP 2000+ system overclocked to 3.5GHz each :)
A regular electronic device is not capable of working properly in the microwave range. The electrons do not travel quickly enough to pass through the transistors in the chip.
Further, it would mess up navigation in the area. Why do you think your wireless network is set to 2.4G, and your microwave to 2.45G? It's so you don't crash planes when you heat up a buritto or upload a new kernel.
It's fake. You simply can't get past that boundary.
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
Think of it like a car that will rev up the engine to 8000 revolutions per min. but 1 horse power. Big woop !!!! It runs fast but is it better than an itanium or sun sparc or how about 128 bit G-4 ? Speed should include power and life of processer and stages. Is it a 20 or 25 stage processer ? Humm... I guess you'll never thought about that did you. I've got an ant that can run really fast but don't put him in a horse race.
This reminds me that when the pentiums first came out that rumors were flying that those machines would need Liquid N.
Kinda funny considering the work that is needed to get Liquid N, and the work needed to OC these chips.
To OC my classic Athlon I need to do a lot of work... not worth it considering it's more than enough speed.
Get your Unix fortune now!
I _really_ wish I can underclock my system (AMD XP 1900+)
But how ?
My mobo doesn't permit me to underclock it to 100 KHz.
At least, I don't think it'd go that low.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Yesterday Finland also decided to build a new nuclear powerplant...
;)
Just a coincidence? I don't think so!!!
Then you certainly have not tried the following thing:
-Install forms 4.5 now. Forms 4.5 is year 2000 complient, the installer crashes (!)(there is a patch but.....)
-use plsql records in a 7.3.4. DB. Bye bye instance.
-use designer 2000 1.2.
I just installed Forms 4.5 for someone yesterday. No crash. No patch.
I'm a systems analyst for a distributed application that runs on 40 Oracle 7.3.4 servers (39 production, one test) for a Fortune 100 company. They all have PL/SQL based forms (somewheres around 40-50 forms, IIRC, most multi-page and all multi-block) running against them 24/7, 364-5. Never had a "bye-bye instance" (in the 14 months I've been involved, anyway).
I also use Designer 2000 with no problems, though I'm not sure of the version as it's at my office and I'm not.
I'm no Oracle guru, though some of the DBAs I work with, are. Maybe that's the difference? Better DBAs?
There are executables such as "slowdown.com"
that allow you to run old games on newer
processors without it running so fast you
cannot play it .
Peace
Out./.
All non-trivial programs have bugs.
With the possible exception of some stuff by Donald Knuth.
Intel had a problem with division on some of their chips. That stuff is well defined and analyzed extremely carefully, but occasionally something slips through the cracks. Software always tends to be buggier than hardware.
Having bugs is not the same as a user being able to encounter one. Mostly they lurk in the shadows waiting for a chance encounter with another bug. If a user encounters a bug, there are usually at least two bugs in the program that are responsible.
We have two morons here that abuse Excel in two different ways:
Moron #1 created a database with Excel that takes one hour to load (Pentium II)
Moron #2 calculated prices for life insurance for all people who might apply for one. This calculation takes 20days on P3/700
My buddy tried to run an old chess game on his PIII-900, without realizing that the clock rate would affect game play. You might anticipate this with a flight simulator, but a chess game?
Well, the program was well made, but the only thing holding back the computer opponent was a limit on how long she could think about her next move. So, on the PIII-900, it was running through gazillions of calculations each second.... it probably had the next five games figured out by the end of the first turn!!!
Hey Mates, its me again, yer unfriendly neighborhood PIRATE! YAAARRRGGG!! I be seein' lots 'o talk 'o this here larry ellison and his so called unbreakable something or other. YARRRRR!! Nothing gets me piratey britches in an uproar more than people making false marketing type claims ... yargg... and if this larry ellison who be the same nancy boy who gave me little peg leg a toot, and then didn't swallow ... well, ye got me boot comin' to break yer arse!! YARG!
TURNING and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of *Spiritus Mundi*
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
mmmmm fire.