certs are just one element on a CV. All elements need considered (including the cert)
Any employer that hires someone JUST because they have a Cert (or degree) is an idiot that deserves what they get
Any employer who refuses to hire someone BECAUSE they have a cert is an idiot and deserves what they get
People who globally discount the value of certificates never have any themselves. They don't know what they are discounting
Some people with certificates are crap with the technology
Some people with certificates are absolute god-sends and fantastic to work-with/employ
Some people without certificates are absolutly crap with the technology
Some people without certificates are absolute god-sends and fantastic to work-with/employ
Certificates take effort. It is impossible to pass a certificate in an area that is new to you without doing substantial work.
Someone highly experienced in an area might be able to pass a cert with little effort - but the effort was already applied gaining the experience.
It is possible to gain a cert by rote memorising a large battery of questions - without truely understanding. People that cheat in this way cheat at everything including their workplace - avoid such people, do not BE such people
Some people use certs to validate to themselves that they've achieved a milestone in their learning. These people ensure they actually LEARN the stuff - hire thesepeople, try to work alongside these people, BE these people.
Certs generally validate or accredite product knowledge - that's a good thing (but you may need more)
All certs expire (including degrees). Just because the bit of paper doesn't have an expriy date on it doesn't mean that the holder still remembers the material.
Some certs are trivial and only validate knowledge that someone should know in their first year
Validating that you know the basics is important (If someone can't pass A+ in their first year working as desktop support thenI don't want them)
Some certs are up there with a PhD - rarely but they exist. CCIE is about as easy to get as a PhD - neither are impossible, both take years of study and experience
So - what I mean is, consider certs in their place. They do have a place, but they are not the be-all-and-end-all of a hiring decision, neither should they be discounted out of hand.
The first few paragraphs are worth noting in this discussion
[begin snip from rfc]
Introduction
Periodically there are proposals to mandate the use of a special top level name or an IP address bit to flag "adult" or "unsafe" material or the like. This document explains why this is an ill considered idea from the legal, philosophical, and the technical points of view.
2. Background
The concept of a.sex,.xxx,.adult, or similar top-level domain in which it would be mandatory to locate salacious or similar material is periodically suggested by some politicians and commentators. Other proposals have included a domain reserved exclusively for material viewed as appropriate for minors, or using IP address bits or ranges to segregate content.
In an October 1998 report accompanying the Child Online Protection Act, the House Commerce committee said, "there are no technical barriers to creating an adult domain, and it would be very easy to block all websites within an adult domain".
The report also said that the committee was wary of regulating the computer industry and that any decision by the U.S. government "will have international consequences" [HOUSEREPORT].
relevent to this discussion - and apparently ignored by ICAN is RFC3675.Sex Considered Dangerous http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3675.html
The first few paragraphs are worth noting in this discussion
[begin snip from rfc]
Introduction
Periodically there are proposals to mandate the use of a special top level name or an IP address bit to flag "adult" or "unsafe" material or the like. This document explains why this is an ill considered idea from the legal, philosophical, and the technical points of view.
2. Background
The concept of a.sex,.xxx,.adult, or similar top-level domain in which it would be mandatory to locate salacious or similar material is periodically suggested by some politicians and commentators.
Other proposals have included a domain reserved exclusively for material viewed as appropriate for minors, or using IP address bits or ranges to segregate content.
In an October 1998 report accompanying the Child Online Protection Act, the House Commerce committee said, "there are no technical barriers to creating an adult domain, and it would be very easy to block all websites within an adult domain". The report also said that the committee was wary of regulating the computer industry and that any decision by the U.S. government "will have international consequences" [HOUSEREPORT].
[end snip from rfc]
Saw the title, didn't glance at the paragraph, hit "read more" to see what people thought of this review of various "Restriction Of Trade" agreements... god I've gotta take a break from business stuff - catching a movie might help
If you use calculus in your coding then you are unusual. Calculus just isn't applicable to the vast majority of coding. Other numerical methods are - but not calculus. Forcing people to learn it is like making medics learn latin. Yeah it broadens the mind but really it isn't relevent
one of the earlier threads talks about "lies damn lies and statistics" and points out that this is all from one institution. Unfortunetly this is a well established trend all over the world. The British Computer Society recently published a report called "Grand Challenges in Computing" in which they try to address the issue.
I liked/agreed with their assessment of the issue - but disagree with the conclusion. My reading of it (summery) is "computer science students are dwindling, because it's hard - well tough - it's what we're going to teach them like it or not"
There is no doubt that CS students are dwindling. My query is - does it matter? don't get me wrong - we NEED CompSci students. They have a place. But we also need grunts to maintain the infrastructure of business and industry. These people are NOT comp-sci graduates.
IT is a commodity in businesses (i'd find a reference to an article but got a bub to go grab and look after). the IT infrastructure is vital to businesses. CS people design - not maintain. I wonder where we're getting the maintainers from.
>Life does not come from non-life, and never has.
>Its a law of science, and something that
>evolutionists continue to struggle mightily to overcome.
typical religious nutty logic here. First off - what is the law? who proved it?
the "typical" aspect is the superstitious one posits something as fact that is completly unknown (or sometimes downright untrue). They then use that fact/assumption to prove... well pretty much anything.
it is truely sad that so much of this discussion is about myth and legends. It stunns me that we are still arguing about zeus, thoth, Eliki or their decendants.
I guess most people can't face the fact that when they grow up and leave home they are truely on their own - and that you weren't "put" here for some purpose. There is no purpose - there's just what's past, what is and what you COULD do/be... grow up.
>You're correct, there are jobs out there that an
>MCSE would help you get. The point here is though,
>those are the exact jobs you DON'T want to have.
oh i don't know about that. I've just read an ACM article (don't have ref handy) which showed pretty conclusivly that HR managers use MCSE (etc) as a short list and that actual IT managers don't rate it that highly.
I suspect that the gradparent is a troll - but I think they have a point. MCSE might get you past the HR manager whereas not having it won't - but then you have to convince the IT manager that you're not a tosser. THAT is the time to deprecate with comments like (if asked) "yeah - I got that because HR managers and clients seem to like it". and other things that make it obvious you don't hold yourself high just because of the cert
I reckon that clients and HR people like qualifications (it's a saftey net for them) but that an IT department is more of a meritocracy - you are rated by your actual performance. Arrogant tossers are recognised pretty quickly regardless of the quals (and I'm starting to feel about PhD's the same way as MCSE too)
but my background is support - wouldn't have a clue about software dev - YMMV
Does it:
A) Hand off from Skype to GSM network when you go out of WiFi range? ...
If it doesn't do these things it is fairly irrelevant for business.
You're kidding right? There's quite a few businesses that have phones that are gaurinteed to never be out of wi-fi range. Land lines aren't obsolete in the business world.
Our business is currently swapping a LARGE number of landline's for cell phone - several hundred. I'm pretty sure that a voip option would be of interest even if a seamless handoff was not an option.
Well for some reason i can't reliably display slashdot pages in mozilla. Really - I'm not trying to troll or anything.
For some reason many times the page is not rendered in a way I can read. the columns in slashdot often overlap, and are really weird. in IE all is fine
As usual, government intervention will bring about the opposite of what they intend to do. Prescious few things are more efficient than the free market.
Newton's Law of Politics: Every force from a political body will have an equal but opposite result from that intended
The leader of iraq is a puppet spouting words written by the white house - hardly a surprise.
I'm more interested in how the whitehouse will keep a puppet after an election... oh wait - they already trialled this in Florida
mechanical phooey - How about wetware pong ?
on
Mechanical Pong
·
· Score: 2, Funny
we get some flat surface - maybe raise it about a meter or so. then get a couple of wetware units installed at each end with some wooden paddle things.
THEN we could use some small ball thing and have the wetware units keep the ball bouncing from side to side.
the speed of the ball moving from one side to the other would be the ping time...
Yeah - that'd work. We could call it Ping Pong (but some boring fart would probably name it table tennis)
I was surprised to find out that the motion picture rating system is a voluntary system.
Where you live maybe. Here there is a govt watchdog who (for better or worse) stamp ratings and age requirements on movies. And yeah sure - it's censorship but reasonable censorship (by my morals and yes that's all that counts:-P)
first at least he was honest - he didn't put it forward as "hey take a look at this article I found" - hea was upfront that it was his article
secondly - it is possible for someone to be a reporter AND an editor. Next you'll be winging about someone claiming to be a songwriter AND have the gall to describe themselves as a singer.
what really bugs me is that you post that moan as an anoymous COWARD.
cavet - not in USA, and IANAL, so what would I know
but from what i've just read: Can your college prevent you from making a wireless lan
Probably not
Can your college prevent you from connecting unauthorised equipment (like your base station) to their network (and from there probably to the internet
Well (d'oh) YEAH - it's their network, sure they can control access
That is so true. If you study to the level of RHCE (or whatever) you can't ever transfer your skills to anything else. In fact, you sign in blood not to ever touch a Gentoo system and working with Suse is likely to land you a jail term (not much of a risk if you take the optional lobotomy provided at the exam center)
Get real!
If someone is worth their salt then skills learnt with one distribution will be transferrable to another. The days of rote memorisation being sufficient for passing are pretty much gone - it'd even be a challenge to pass a MS exam with zero understanding of what you had memorised. The days of any employer (or even client) being impressed solely by a certificate are also (thankfully) passed. Any cert is just another fibre in a CV bow that indicates a minimum achievment, which should be strenthened by experience in the field
There's three things that are simply not related, that people tend to treat as if they were identical.
Intelligence
Knowledge
Wisdom
All too often we treat someone with lots of knowledge as if they were intelligent - and don't get me started on thinking about wise. Which is not the same as intelligence. I know a few people that I'm sure most would regard as "intelligent" but few would describe as wise (I can't define either but can get an agreement about whether it's an attribute of someone)
I think the only thing that counts is whether you can be successful in something you enjoy. Regardless of your "smarts" if you aren't having fun in what occupies your day then find something else to occupy your day. And if you're no good in that then chances are it isn't entertaining you.
and as for /.ers that consider themselves unusually but non-traditionally 'bright' and how you have dealt with it. all I can say, and has already been said in other threads, is
Get over yourself
If your self esteem is based on some idea that you are better in some hidden way than most people then you have some serious problems and will probably never be really happy, blieveing that you are just not appreciated. You probably will be more appreciated if you start valuing and appreciating those around you. Quid pro quo you get what you give
Slashdot Mirror
- certs are just one element on a CV. All elements need considered (including the cert)
- Any employer that hires someone JUST because they have a Cert (or degree) is an idiot that deserves what they get
- Any employer who refuses to hire someone BECAUSE they have a cert is an idiot and deserves what they get
- People who globally discount the value of certificates never have any themselves. They don't know what they are discounting
- Some people with certificates are crap with the technology
- Some people with certificates are absolute god-sends and fantastic to work-with/employ
- Some people without certificates are absolutly crap with the technology
- Some people without certificates are absolute god-sends and fantastic to work-with/employ
- Certificates take effort. It is impossible to pass a certificate in an area that is new to you without doing substantial work.
- Someone highly experienced in an area might be able to pass a cert with little effort - but the effort was already applied gaining the experience.
- It is possible to gain a cert by rote memorising a large battery of questions - without truely understanding. People that cheat in this way cheat at everything including their workplace - avoid such people, do not BE such people
- Some people use certs to validate to themselves that they've achieved a milestone in their learning. These people ensure they actually LEARN the stuff - hire thesepeople, try to work alongside these people, BE these people.
- Certs generally validate or accredite product knowledge - that's a good thing (but you may need more)
- All certs expire (including degrees). Just because the bit of paper doesn't have an expriy date on it doesn't mean that the holder still remembers the material.
- Some certs are trivial and only validate knowledge that someone should know in their first year
- Validating that you know the basics is important (If someone can't pass A+ in their first year working as desktop support thenI don't want them)
- Some certs are up there with a PhD - rarely but they exist. CCIE is about as easy to get as a PhD - neither are impossible, both take years of study and experience
So - what I mean is, consider certs in their place. They do have a place, but they are not the be-all-and-end-all of a hiring decision, neither should they be discounted out of hand.The first few paragraphs are worth noting in this discussion
[begin snip from rfc]
Introduction
Periodically there are proposals to mandate the use of a special top level name or an IP address bit to flag "adult" or "unsafe" material or the like. This document explains why this is an ill considered idea from the legal, philosophical, and the technical points of view.
2. Background
The concept of a .sex, .xxx, .adult, or similar top-level domain in which it would be mandatory to locate salacious or similar material is periodically suggested by some politicians and commentators. Other proposals have included a domain reserved exclusively for material viewed as appropriate for minors, or using IP address bits or ranges to segregate content.
In an October 1998 report accompanying the Child Online Protection Act, the House Commerce committee said,
"there are no technical barriers to creating an adult domain, and it would be very easy to block all websites within an adult domain".
The report also said that the committee was wary of regulating the computer industry and that any decision by the U.S. government "will have international consequences" [HOUSEREPORT].
[end snip from rfc]
relevent to this discussion - and apparently ignored by ICAN is RFC3675 .Sex Considered Dangerous http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3675.html
The first few paragraphs are worth noting in this discussion
[begin snip from rfc]
Introduction
Periodically there are proposals to mandate the use of a special top level name or an IP address bit to flag "adult" or "unsafe" material or the like. This document explains why this is an ill considered idea from the legal, philosophical, and the technical points of view.
2. Background
The concept of a .sex, .xxx, .adult, or similar top-level domain in which it would be mandatory to locate salacious or similar material is periodically suggested by some politicians and commentators.
Other proposals have included a domain reserved exclusively for material viewed as appropriate for minors, or using IP address bits or ranges to segregate content.
In an October 1998 report accompanying the Child Online Protection Act, the House Commerce committee said, "there are no technical barriers to creating an adult domain, and it would be very easy to block all websites within an adult domain". The report also said that the committee was wary of regulating the computer industry and that any decision by the U.S. government "will have international consequences" [HOUSEREPORT].
[end snip from rfc]
Saw the title, didn't glance at the paragraph, hit "read more" to see what people thought of this review of various "Restriction Of Trade" agreements ... god I've gotta take a break from business stuff - catching a movie might help
If you use calculus in your coding then you are unusual. Calculus just isn't applicable to the vast majority of coding. Other numerical methods are - but not calculus. Forcing people to learn it is like making medics learn latin. Yeah it broadens the mind but really it isn't relevent
I liked/agreed with their assessment of the issue - but disagree with the conclusion. My reading of it (summery) is "computer science students are dwindling, because it's hard - well tough - it's what we're going to teach them like it or not"
There is no doubt that CS students are dwindling. My query is - does it matter? don't get me wrong - we NEED CompSci students. They have a place. But we also need grunts to maintain the infrastructure of business and industry. These people are NOT comp-sci graduates.
IT is a commodity in businesses (i'd find a reference to an article but got a bub to go grab and look after). the IT infrastructure is vital to businesses. CS people design - not maintain. I wonder where we're getting the maintainers from.
>Its a law of science, and something that >evolutionists continue to struggle mightily to overcome.
typical religious nutty logic here. First off - what is the law? who proved it?
the "typical" aspect is the superstitious one posits something as fact that is completly unknown (or sometimes downright untrue). They then use that fact/assumption to prove ... well pretty much anything.
it is truely sad that so much of this discussion is about myth and legends. It stunns me that we are still arguing about zeus, thoth, Eliki or their decendants.
I guess most people can't face the fact that when they grow up and leave home they are truely on their own - and that you weren't "put" here for some purpose. There is no purpose - there's just what's past, what is and what you COULD do/be ... grow up.
Actually that's already been done. Quite effectivly too.
I suspect that the gradparent is a troll - but I think they have a point. MCSE might get you past the HR manager whereas not having it won't - but then you have to convince the IT manager that you're not a tosser. THAT is the time to deprecate with comments like (if asked) "yeah - I got that because HR managers and clients seem to like it". and other things that make it obvious you don't hold yourself high just because of the cert
I reckon that clients and HR people like qualifications (it's a saftey net for them) but that an IT department is more of a meritocracy - you are rated by your actual performance. Arrogant tossers are recognised pretty quickly regardless of the quals (and I'm starting to feel about PhD's the same way as MCSE too)
but my background is support - wouldn't have a clue about software dev - YMMV
...
If it doesn't do these things it is fairly irrelevant for business.
You're kidding right? There's quite a few businesses that have phones that are gaurinteed to never be out of wi-fi range. Land lines aren't obsolete in the business world.
Our business is currently swapping a LARGE number of landline's for cell phone - several hundred. I'm pretty sure that a voip option would be of interest even if a seamless handoff was not an option.
you've got a problem with your install then. I routinly do that and have never ever had that happen
THAT worked a treat. thank you thank you thank you .. must change sig now
For some reason many times the page is not rendered in a way I can read. the columns in slashdot often overlap, and are really weird. in IE all is fine
yes I do see the irony
Newton's Law of Politics: Every force from a political body will have an equal but opposite result from that intended
yeah - I like that
I'm more interested in how the whitehouse will keep a puppet after an election ... oh wait - they already trialled this in Florida
THEN we could use some small ball thing and have the wetware units keep the ball bouncing from side to side.
the speed of the ball moving from one side to the other would be the ping time ...
Yeah - that'd work. We could call it Ping Pong (but some boring fart would probably name it table tennis)
I wonder how to register a patent
Where you live maybe. Here there is a govt watchdog who (for better or worse) stamp ratings and age requirements on movies. And yeah sure - it's censorship but reasonable censorship (by my morals and yes that's all that counts :-P)
oh get a grip.
first at least he was honest - he didn't put it forward as "hey take a look at this article I found" - hea was upfront that it was his article
secondly - it is possible for someone to be a reporter AND an editor. Next you'll be winging about someone claiming to be a songwriter AND have the gall to describe themselves as a singer.
what really bugs me is that you post that moan as an anoymous COWARD.
but from what i've just read:
Can your college prevent you from making a wireless lan
Probably not
Can your college prevent you from connecting unauthorised equipment (like your base station) to their network (and from there probably to the internet
Well (d'oh) YEAH - it's their network, sure they can control access
Don't mock the bottom rung on a ladder - can be very useful in it's own way
Get real!
If someone is worth their salt then skills learnt with one distribution will be transferrable to another. The days of rote memorisation being sufficient for passing are pretty much gone - it'd even be a challenge to pass a MS exam with zero understanding of what you had memorised. The days of any employer (or even client) being impressed solely by a certificate are also (thankfully) passed. Any cert is just another fibre in a CV bow that indicates a minimum achievment, which should be strenthened by experience in the field
Besides - last I heard Redhat pretty much followed the few standards that exist such as the FHS.
It's not as if redhat is the only distribution to have tools that it developed for itself
The thing is - if someone CAN'T get it then I do NOT want them working for me.
So this is "News for nerds, stuff that matters" how?
- Intelligence
- Knowledge
- Wisdom
All too often we treat someone with lots of knowledge as if they were intelligent - and don't get me started on thinking about wise. Which is not the same as intelligence. I know a few people that I'm sure most would regard as "intelligent" but few would describe as wise (I can't define either but can get an agreement about whether it's an attribute of someone)I think the only thing that counts is whether you can be successful in something you enjoy. Regardless of your "smarts" if you aren't having fun in what occupies your day then find something else to occupy your day. And if you're no good in that then chances are it isn't entertaining you.
and as for /.ers that consider themselves unusually but non-traditionally 'bright' and how you have dealt with it. all I can say, and has already been said in other threads, is
If your self esteem is based on some idea that you are better in some hidden way than most people then you have some serious problems and will probably never be really happy, blieveing that you are just not appreciated. You probably will be more appreciated if you start valuing and appreciating those around you. Quid pro quo you get what you giveHere's where that post originated - he's right it really is a new WG. Announced Wed, 05 May 2004