> It is wrong to capitalize on group-exclusive hatred.
Wait, who hates who in this scenario?
> If nationalism can be popularized, profit-seeking companies will create vehicles for propaganda without external guidance.
What do you mean "if"? I don't know what world you're living in, but over here there has been a plethora of games based upon real wars, with a heavy does of nationalism on the side. And it's not a U.S.-only thing. In Japan, for instance, you can buy wargames that have you play the Japanese side of WWII, and let you actually win.
Although currently it is unfortunately culturally acceptable among some of the population to participate in this nationalism, it is in no way different from the less acceptable forms of ethnocentrism such as racism and antisemitism.
Huh? Nationalism has always been culturally acceptable, for the entire history of the world. And unlike racism and antisemitism, there can be actual reasons behind the phenomenon. Surely you can't argue that Saudi Arabia is a better country than Belguim, or that China is better than Japan.
Some people feel nationalism simply because they were born in a country, or because they belong to the single ethnic group that comprises most of it. But if you're proud of your country because of the ideals it was founded upon, the tenets it represents, and the success it's had bringing people of different cultures together -- then there is nothing wrong with a little nationalistic feeling then.
Here is a nice collection of links that completely undermines your argument. Feel free to ignore them completely, as I'm sure nothing will change your mind.
But take heart, we'll be rid of Bush in another five and a half years or so.
Ah, I see. Well, risk-taking games appear once in a blue moon, and they're often cloned to death. The notion that Japanese developers as a whole are more innovative is an unproven illusion.
I play games from Japanese, American, European, Australian, and other companies, and it seems to me that the creativity factor is average across the globe. It is understandable that some people confuse cultural oddity (from their perspective) with innovation, and it is very easy to fall in love with one particular society, but taken too far it will only deprive you of great experiences from elsewhere.
Actually, you could even say that Japan's slow adoption of the PC platform has put them in last place when it comes to innovation, since tons of innovation comes from independent and small-time developers. After all, it takes a huge budget to put a console game on the market, but anyone with a little skill and a dream can make their own PC game and put it out on the Internet. Those three games I listed above would never have seen the light of day on a console, for instance.
He wasn't impressed with American games as of late. Do you blame him? We're "let's milk the formula for sequals!" happy right now. It's been proven time and time again that Americangame companies have difficulty taking risks and doing something *gasp* original.
I agree with you in general, but the problem isn't confined to one geographic location. Japanese and European developers are just as bad -- we're up to Mega Man what now? Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, plus the umpteen million dating sims that never get translated... you can say that the fans wanted more, and that's true -- but that'd also be true for Doom 3, GTA:Somewhere, and The Sims Expansion #11.
You can argue until you're blue in the face which "region" or "culture" produces the best games, and it'll get you nowhere. So it's best not to participate in such flame-fests, even if some other moron started it. Instead talk about the games, their developers, and, if need be, the companies that produce them.
> There is no country on earth ([stupid trollish comment]) that would do such a thing.
No country would kill and massacre it's citizens like that? Could I move to this alternate dimension where you live, or is there only room for your ego?
If Nintendo had no competition, I'm sure that we'd be getting the N64 any year now...
Monitor Man in New York
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Random Humor
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· Score: 5, Funny
This isn't a Japan-only thing. I saw a Monitor Man (actually, a woman) in New York city about 6 weeks ago on vacation. She was in Times Square near where the ticket center (name?) is.
Upon seeing her, I joked with my wife, "She was probably tired of men staring at her breasts all the time."
> I saw this on the BBC this morning and looked around CNN, the New York Times site, and the other usual suspects in vain for any word of this. Surely this has some importance to people in the United States, since we'll be paying for it in our taxes?
Well, I read something about it on MSNBC. Why are U.S. agencies not jumping on this story? Because it's a non-event, really. Army developing new weapon for use in 30 years time? Yawn. I might catch it on The Discovery Channel or Slashdot, but this is hardly front (or 2nd, or 3rd) page news.
The real question to ask is, why are foreign news sources making such a big deal of it? Methinks they're being overly paranoid.
> umm... wow. that's a little culturally elitest... don't ya think?
Only if I had said it doesn't apply to everyone else also. I would have put that disclaimer into my original post, but I can't resist trolling overly-sensitive types.
Re:US vs French vacation packages
on
Working Hard?
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· Score: 0, Troll
> Guess where I choose to live?
In a country that's going bankcrupt because of it's overly-generous government jobs? So, how are those labor protest/riots going anyway?
This is all an elaborate ploy by Microsoft to get everyone to buy an Xbox. They want you to believe that either A) Linux bootloader will be released, or B) 37337 exploit will be released. Don't fall for it!
Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to fashion a tinfoil helmet to block the RFID chip the dentist put in my molar.
They made the mistake of going into Japan with out many Japanese games, hoping that localized Western games would be enough to drive the market.
I agree. The Japanese gaming populace should open their minds to new and different game types. But until that happens, you've got to feed them the same stuff they've always been fed.
"..we believe that the future is the social element of gaming, and that's going to be done through a console, not through a handheld gaming device."
I have to say that this is an excellent excuse to give on the matter -- bravo. I mean, sure there are real (good) reasons why MS isn't coming out with a handheld device right now, but Mr. Moore's made-up excuse makes them sound much more confident and visionary.
Really, I could not come up with a respose like that. I wonder if he wrote it himself.
Baldur's Gate a "smash hit"? Not really, even in the PC game market, which is about 1/10th the size of the console market.
Baldur's Gate sold 1.5 million copies, and Baldur's Gate II sold more. Seems pretty successful to me, even by today's standards. Plus, the series has recieved high accolades from every credible review source.
Perhaps you're thinking of another game?
Point-and-click adventures (which you call puzzle adventures) were never particularly popular ANYWHERE. They may have been a big fish in a very small pond (early 90's PC market)...but let's not forget, the height of their development coincides with the early days of CD-ROM technology.
Actually, most agree that the CD-ROM was the death-blow for the genre. The market was flooded with crappy FMV watch-fests with bad acting, and it turned people off the idea of adventure games entirely. Some say Myst is also to blame, but I'm not entirely positive about that.
Anyhow, it's been nice chatting with you. Just a couple other things: Puzzle adventure games were popular in the 80's as well as the early 90's. Also, the term "point and click adventure" doesn't exactly fit, since they don't all use the mouse. See ya.
Except for dating sims, mahjong games, a lot of the dancing type games other than DDR, Vib Ribbon, a lot of strategy games, a lot of the RPGs other than Final Fantasy (and even those are only gradually improving from a really spotty porting record) and i'm sure there are a lot more that i'm not thinking of.
You can't blame people for not buying what isn't available to buy. The few rhythm games that have made it to the U.S. have done pretty well.
Mahjong isn't popular here, but you'd be surprised at the pervasiveness of some computer versions. You can play Ningpo Mahjong right now at PopCap, for instance.
I can't think of a single dating simulation ever seeing major release here in the U.S. The closest I can think of is the dating portion of the PSX game "Thousand Arms".
I didn't really understand what you're trying to say about RPGs. Seems as far back as I can remember, the American market has been flooded with RPG games of all types, from all over the world. Furthermore, both linear and open-ended RPG games have enjoyed great success here.
> If you mean, the Japanese don't like the Dungeons-and-Dragons style PC RPGs (a la Baldur's Gate), you're right, because they are BORING. They are a fringe genre in the US as well.
Huh? Baldur's Gate was a smash hit in the U.S., as was its sequel. The "boredom" complaint is highly subjective too -- I still consider Fallout 1 and 2 to be among the best games of all time.
> And what type of puzzle adventures do the Japanese dislike? Super Mario Sunshine? Zelda? Seriously, you're fulla cack.
Sorry if my terminology confused you. By "puzzle adventures", I mean games like the Monkey Island series, Grim Fandango, Sam and Max, The Longest Journey, etc..
Puzzle adventures (or whatever you call them) were never popular in Japan. They were big in the U.S. for a while, but their popularity waned in the mid-1990's (although they might be making a comeback soon).
Europe is currently the biggest producer of puzzle-adventures, where they are still financially successful.
> but moving away from established genres is clearly a no-no in the US market
It's the same way in Japan, Europe, and everywhere else for that matter. Some point to Japan and say "They don't conform to established genres, they're more innovative!" When in fact they're just as trapped by the status quo as we are -- it's just that theirs is different.
For a FPS, or open-ended RPG, or puzzle-adventure to gain popularity over in Japan would truly be as revolutionary as the U.S. market buying millions of copies of Ico.
(And actually, did Ico sell well over there? I don't seem to recall it being a big hit anywhere.)
Yep, the Japanese are just as averse to change as everyone else, if not moreso.
Actually, not to flame, but it can be argued that the North American market is most open-minded when it comes to it's games. Software from all over the world can enjoy great success there, from just about any genre.
You're thinking of fossil's other so-called PDA watch. This one runs Palm OS and has a 160x160 screen. It is a "real PDA." You can sync it to a PC, but you can also enter data directly into it with grafitti or an on-screen keyboard.
The Fossil uses a rechargeable battery - IOW, put the watch on a charger while you sleep. The onHand uses lithium coin cells that you have to pay to replace every few months. It also has a downright painful interface, compared to the button/rocker switch/touchscreen input of this fossil watch.
The truth... IT BURNS!
But I'm glad to hear they've improved the Fossil line, though I'm still reasonably happy with my onHand. The only really painful thing is text input, and I don't have to put in much text, and not often.
He writes, 'Our response to being bored and rich is not to discard our possessions and live more simply, but to buy more stuff to reduce the space in which we might contemplate our shame.'
Huh? What? That really came out of left field. I don't see how I'm supposed to feel shame if I'm bored, or rich. Perhaps the author can point me in the direction of some of these shamed millionaires so I can help relieve them of their problem.
That Fossil Palm watch isn't a full PDA, it still needs to sync up with a regular Palm (or PC). I suggest looking into the only true watch-PDA, the onHand PC Watch. It has an estimated three months battery life, as opposed to the Fossil's 4 days (at 30 minutes a day). Not sure about the daily usage of the onHand, but I haven't had to change the batteries since I got mine in March.
It also comes with an open-source dev kit, not to mention IR and serial connectivity, and 2 megs of RAM.
Slashdot Mirror
> It is wrong to capitalize on group-exclusive hatred.
Wait, who hates who in this scenario?
> If nationalism can be popularized, profit-seeking companies will create vehicles for propaganda without external guidance.
What do you mean "if"? I don't know what world you're living in, but over here there has been a plethora of games based upon real wars, with a heavy does of nationalism on the side. And it's not a U.S.-only thing. In Japan, for instance, you can buy wargames that have you play the Japanese side of WWII, and let you actually win.
Although currently it is unfortunately culturally acceptable among some of the population to participate in this nationalism, it is in no way different from the less acceptable forms of ethnocentrism such as racism and antisemitism.
Huh? Nationalism has always been culturally acceptable, for the entire history of the world. And unlike racism and antisemitism, there can be actual reasons behind the phenomenon. Surely you can't argue that Saudi Arabia is a better country than Belguim, or that China is better than Japan.
Some people feel nationalism simply because they were born in a country, or because they belong to the single ethnic group that comprises most of it. But if you're proud of your country because of the ideals it was founded upon, the tenets it represents, and the success it's had bringing people of different cultures together -- then there is nothing wrong with a little nationalistic feeling then.
Here is a nice collection of links that completely undermines your argument. Feel free to ignore them completely, as I'm sure nothing will change your mind.
But take heart, we'll be rid of Bush in another five and a half years or so.
Ah, I see. Well, risk-taking games appear once in a blue moon, and they're often cloned to death. The notion that Japanese developers as a whole are more innovative is an unproven illusion.
I play games from Japanese, American, European, Australian, and other companies, and it seems to me that the creativity factor is average across the globe. It is understandable that some people confuse cultural oddity (from their perspective) with innovation, and it is very easy to fall in love with one particular society, but taken too far it will only deprive you of great experiences from elsewhere.
In fact, you've really got to keep your eyes wide open, or else you'll miss some real gems. Stuff like Combat Mission, Moonbase Commander, and Natural Selection, right off the top of my head.
Actually, you could even say that Japan's slow adoption of the PC platform has put them in last place when it comes to innovation, since tons of innovation comes from independent and small-time developers. After all, it takes a huge budget to put a console game on the market, but anyone with a little skill and a dream can make their own PC game and put it out on the Internet. Those three games I listed above would never have seen the light of day on a console, for instance.
He wasn't impressed with American games as of late. Do you blame him? We're "let's milk the formula for sequals!" happy right now. It's been proven time and time again that Americangame companies have difficulty taking risks and doing something *gasp* original.
I agree with you in general, but the problem isn't confined to one geographic location. Japanese and European developers are just as bad -- we're up to Mega Man what now? Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, plus the umpteen million dating sims that never get translated... you can say that the fans wanted more, and that's true -- but that'd also be true for Doom 3, GTA:Somewhere, and The Sims Expansion #11.
You can argue until you're blue in the face which "region" or "culture" produces the best games, and it'll get you nowhere. So it's best not to participate in such flame-fests, even if some other moron started it. Instead talk about the games, their developers, and, if need be, the companies that produce them.
> There is no country on earth ([stupid trollish comment]) that would do such a thing.
No country would kill and massacre it's citizens like that? Could I move to this alternate dimension where you live, or is there only room for your ego?
If Nintendo had no competition, I'm sure that we'd be getting the N64 any year now...
This isn't a Japan-only thing. I saw a Monitor Man (actually, a woman) in New York city about 6 weeks ago on vacation. She was in Times Square near where the ticket center (name?) is.
Upon seeing her, I joked with my wife, "She was probably tired of men staring at her breasts all the time."
> I saw this on the BBC this morning and looked around CNN, the New York Times site, and the other usual suspects in vain for any word of this. Surely this has some importance to people in the United States, since we'll be paying for it in our taxes?
Well, I read something about it on MSNBC. Why are U.S. agencies not jumping on this story? Because it's a non-event, really. Army developing new weapon for use in 30 years time? Yawn. I might catch it on The Discovery Channel or Slashdot, but this is hardly front (or 2nd, or 3rd) page news.
The real question to ask is, why are foreign news sources making such a big deal of it? Methinks they're being overly paranoid.
> cowered in fear and aggression.
Cowered in aggression?
> Can someone tell me where I get a beta of the "Eteet Exploit"?
Darn typoes -- that was supposed to be "37347 exploit".
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Ah, another overly-sensitive clod bites the dust. Hey, maybe next time you can avoid putting words in my mouth, eh?
I don't know why I keep selectively trolling you people.
> umm... wow. that's a little culturally elitest... don't ya think?
Only if I had said it doesn't apply to everyone else also. I would have put that disclaimer into my original post, but I can't resist trolling overly-sensitive types.
> Guess where I choose to live?
In a country that's going bankcrupt because of it's overly-generous government jobs? So, how are those labor protest/riots going anyway?
This is all an elaborate ploy by Microsoft to get everyone to buy an Xbox. They want you to believe that either A) Linux bootloader will be released, or B) 37337 exploit will be released. Don't fall for it!
Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to fashion a tinfoil helmet to block the RFID chip the dentist put in my molar.
They made the mistake of going into Japan with out many Japanese games, hoping that localized Western games would be enough to drive the market.
I agree. The Japanese gaming populace should open their minds to new and different game types. But until that happens, you've got to feed them the same stuff they've always been fed.
"..we believe that the future is the social element of gaming, and that's going to be done through a console, not through a handheld gaming device."
I have to say that this is an excellent excuse to give on the matter -- bravo. I mean, sure there are real (good) reasons why MS isn't coming out with a handheld device right now, but Mr. Moore's made-up excuse makes them sound much more confident and visionary.
Really, I could not come up with a respose like that. I wonder if he wrote it himself.
Baldur's Gate a "smash hit"? Not really, even in the PC game market, which is about 1/10th the size of the console market.
Baldur's Gate sold 1.5 million copies, and Baldur's Gate II sold more. Seems pretty successful to me, even by today's standards. Plus, the series has recieved high accolades from every credible review source.
Perhaps you're thinking of another game?
Point-and-click adventures (which you call puzzle adventures) were never particularly popular ANYWHERE. They may have been a big fish in a very small pond (early 90's PC market)...but let's not forget, the height of their development coincides with the early days of CD-ROM technology.
Actually, most agree that the CD-ROM was the death-blow for the genre. The market was flooded with crappy FMV watch-fests with bad acting, and it turned people off the idea of adventure games entirely. Some say Myst is also to blame, but I'm not entirely positive about that.
Anyhow, it's been nice chatting with you. Just a couple other things: Puzzle adventure games were popular in the 80's as well as the early 90's. Also, the term "point and click adventure" doesn't exactly fit, since they don't all use the mouse. See ya.
Except for dating sims, mahjong games, a lot of the dancing type games other than DDR, Vib Ribbon, a lot of strategy games, a lot of the RPGs other than Final Fantasy (and even those are only gradually improving from a really spotty porting record) and i'm sure there are a lot more that i'm not thinking of.
You can't blame people for not buying what isn't available to buy. The few rhythm games that have made it to the U.S. have done pretty well.
Mahjong isn't popular here, but you'd be surprised at the pervasiveness of some computer versions. You can play Ningpo Mahjong right now at PopCap, for instance.
I can't think of a single dating simulation ever seeing major release here in the U.S. The closest I can think of is the dating portion of the PSX game "Thousand Arms".
I didn't really understand what you're trying to say about RPGs. Seems as far back as I can remember, the American market has been flooded with RPG games of all types, from all over the world. Furthermore, both linear and open-ended RPG games have enjoyed great success here.
> If you mean, the Japanese don't like the Dungeons-and-Dragons style PC RPGs (a la Baldur's Gate), you're right, because they are BORING. They are a fringe genre in the US as well.
Huh? Baldur's Gate was a smash hit in the U.S., as was its sequel. The "boredom" complaint is highly subjective too -- I still consider Fallout 1 and 2 to be among the best games of all time.
> And what type of puzzle adventures do the Japanese dislike? Super Mario Sunshine? Zelda? Seriously, you're fulla cack.
Sorry if my terminology confused you. By "puzzle adventures", I mean games like the Monkey Island series, Grim Fandango, Sam and Max, The Longest Journey, etc..
Puzzle adventures (or whatever you call them) were never popular in Japan. They were big in the U.S. for a while, but their popularity waned in the mid-1990's (although they might be making a comeback soon).
Europe is currently the biggest producer of puzzle-adventures, where they are still financially successful.
> but moving away from established genres is clearly a no-no in the US market
It's the same way in Japan, Europe, and everywhere else for that matter. Some point to Japan and say "They don't conform to established genres, they're more innovative!" When in fact they're just as trapped by the status quo as we are -- it's just that theirs is different.
For a FPS, or open-ended RPG, or puzzle-adventure to gain popularity over in Japan would truly be as revolutionary as the U.S. market buying millions of copies of Ico.
(And actually, did Ico sell well over there? I don't seem to recall it being a big hit anywhere.)
Yep, the Japanese are just as averse to change as everyone else, if not moreso.
Actually, not to flame, but it can be argued that the North American market is most open-minded when it comes to it's games. Software from all over the world can enjoy great success there, from just about any genre.
But I'm glad to hear they've improved the Fossil line, though I'm still reasonably happy with my onHand. The only really painful thing is text input, and I don't have to put in much text, and not often.
He writes, 'Our response to being bored and rich is not to discard our possessions and live more simply, but to buy more stuff to reduce the space in which we might contemplate our shame.'
Huh? What? That really came out of left field. I don't see how I'm supposed to feel shame if I'm bored, or rich. Perhaps the author can point me in the direction of some of these shamed millionaires so I can help relieve them of their problem.
That Fossil Palm watch isn't a full PDA, it still needs to sync up with a regular Palm (or PC). I suggest looking into the only true watch-PDA, the onHand PC Watch. It has an estimated three months battery life, as opposed to the Fossil's 4 days (at 30 minutes a day). Not sure about the daily usage of the onHand, but I haven't had to change the batteries since I got mine in March.
It also comes with an open-source dev kit, not to mention IR and serial connectivity, and 2 megs of RAM.