I don't know what the news is for you, but you certainly don't need to take this opportunity to do distro comparisons.
I've never been able to get gentoo working on two of my machines, albeit identical, because the video RAM is too small for 24-bit color. Yet Debian doesn't flinch.
Debian has better documentation and support than gentoo, hands down. Now go away.
I hate to start like this, but...
When I was a child, my grandmother made me read out loud to her. And if I fudged the pronounciation of anything, she made me get it right. I hated it.
Now I realize that she has done me a great service for I can read and speak much clearer and with better enunciation than most of those around me.
Similarly, if you do not know that terms like 'u', 'r', and ':)' are not to be considered proper forms of the written language, then you will look like a blithering fool later on. Can you imagine someone making a million dollar pitch and filling it with LEET SPEAK? I don't think he will get very far unless he intends to use this as a marketing ploy.
I think that the teachers are doing a disservice to anyone whom they tolerate with their 'net abbreviations.
No it won't. People are simple about things that they don't want to understand that much about.
How much do you know about the detail operations of your Car? How about your Computer? Different strokes for different folks.
If I want a car, I look for something with four wheels, engine, seats, and a good radio. If I want a Computer, I have a six page list of detailed specifications. Different Strokes for Different Folks.
PHB's are not going to ever be concerned with which Distribution they are using. It's enough of a bother that they have to decide between MSFT, SUN, and RedHat.
Good point. But Marketing types insist that everyone convert to their version of the Truth.
To be honest. While I have not personally seen much about RedHat that would implicate them as being anything Evil, what does bother me is that the general thinking in Corporate America is the RedHat is the One True Linux distrobution and that all the others (including Debian, Slackware - my two personal favorites) are all a bunch of unprofessional butt-heads who are unreliable and generally lame.
Now, none of this has anything to do with the truth. But it says volumes about the impression that Corporate PHB's are left with regarding the Linux Distribution Community.
Does this mean that RedHat has Evil Marketing types? I don't know. I've hardly ever seen an advertisement from them. But I don't think that they are Bad.
But what this does mean is that the IT Community will preferentially decide upon One Solution and rally around that single Icon forsaking all others. You want proof? Look at Apple. No one rallies around Apple these days (not much) even though they have a remarkable product and have somehow managed to survived all these years.
But if you mention using something that is outside of the Accepted Standards, and there can be only one, then you are considered a renegade. And why do IT Types think that RedHat == Linux? Because RedHat markets their ability to provide Service Agreements where Debian can not, and Slackware, Mandrake, Suse, don't (at least not in the US).
It is not enough that there may be a hundred companies that are willing to support something like Debian, it's not Debian directly. And for a Corporate Mentality where everything must be subcontracted out in tidy packages -- this is too confusing and too much potential for problems. There is risk for finger pointing and what's worse is this. If something goes wrong with the software, you really can't sue something like gentoo or Debian as they are non-profit companies without a single corporal entity that can be legally raped when the sacrifices are called for.
RedHat isn't evil. They are just smart. I do wish they would get a better package management tool though. I've seen too many posts about rebuilding rpm libraries to even consider using it.
I ran into a comment from a PHB who several times called Linux, "RedHat" even with the numerous corrections given him in the room. So, in a sense, RedHat has become the next Windows. It is synonymous with the concept of Linux.
After all, how many PHB's out there really know that their is something besides Windows or what an Operation System is?
Actually, you got that one backwards. It is because the physical appearance of Linux users has changed from outside to something on the inside that it can flourish in the Big Business community.
Seriously, if you are really that concerned about PRACTICAL versus TRADITION then why are you getting married?
It's more expensive
It's harder than being single
You lose career flexibility & mobility
You can't spend Sunday in your boxers
You'll have to empty the trash full of tampons every month
So, the answer is this. There is no RATIONAL explaination for getting married and there is no RATIONAL explaination behind getting diamonds.
What you are missing here is that marriage is an emotional bond between two people first. Emotions, unfortunately, don't jive well with Rationality. Ask Science Officer Spock, he knows.
So don't think to hard about it. Get the diamond and get on with it. Save your financial fortitude for other matters that are less emotional
Sorry to chime in like some flame bait. But I've been using KDE, Gnome, and Windows for a while (5+ years on each?).
WindowMaker has a pleasant appearance, lightweight, and not like Windows. I can't say this for the others listed. It's much better on the eyes than fvwm, twm, or the other strict WM's
I think that the answer is more something like WindowMaker than KDE. KDE reminds me too much of windows, not only in their desktop, but in their binding KDE-based applications into the KDE menu bar at the bottom. I don't use Kwrite or Kmail - but there they are. I don't like that. It doesn't allow me to stick to a reduced interface with only what I want visible to be visible.
WindowMaker is based on NEXT and that's a darn nice and different interface. Personally, it's either that or something similar that will supercede Windows. Not the Windows-Like interface that we keep pathetically copying.
The only thing I would add to the likes of Windowmaker is the ability to use the background as some kind of application window. Maybe like a ActiveDesktop - but limited to the current system, not web-centric.
What really caught my eye about this article was the 47% increase in sales personnel that they have planned for 2003. If Server sales are down, and the competition is getting harder, then what is the implication of putting so much effort behind your sales organization?
Answer: Microsoft is not a technology software company. Microsoft is a technology Marketing company. Most of us probably already realize this, but Microsoft traditionally has not really created much Technically. But their ability to spin Marketing and Sales into a great package is unparalleled.
This isn't some kind of admission that Linux wins, or IBM wins, or Microsoft Loses. The fact that they have such emphasis on their Sales staff implicates that they are going to be continuing to push as hard as they can with the Sales Tactics in order to stay the coming changes
I have been working with a variety of distributions out there and have come to the conclusion that, if you want it to work and work well, the Debian is probably the most trusted distribution out there. If you want bells and whistles, then you need to go someplace else.
On thing I have to mention here. If Debian merged with GenTOO, then there would be no stopping them! Optimal package compiles coupled with the best package management system AND the BEST PACKAGE MANAGERS out there. Now that would be cool!
I have to hand it to the Debian folks. They have an excellent policy that puts quality and reliability in front of everything else. I can trust this distribution to work on machines that I can't even access directly.
Rather than the problems of commodity purchasing and managing over 1,000 machines. Do the Linux Terminal Server Project approach. Short of full screen gaming, this stuff works really well for pooling up to 300 users onto a single Linux box. OK, 300 is a stretch, but 30 isn't, it's quite manageable. That lowers your management from 1000 to ~33 machines!
The point is that the management of an ltsp driven company is going to be much less than that of a workstation-by-workstation environment. And to top it off, the clients become something that will hardly ever need upgrades or patches. You will have to worry about hardware failures before you need to upgrade the CPU or RAM
Palladium isn't for you. It's for them. They have never been able to get the SOFTWARE to be secure. So now they have resorted to the only possible solution that still gives everyone root. They have decided to get a HARDWARE based solution instead.
The best thing about this Palladium for MSFT is that they don't have to worry about anymore security problems. It will all become a problem of Intel and AMD, the keepers of the hardware key.
I have saved ~30% every time I've built a computer from scratch. The other aspect to consider is that with the package deals, you might not necessarily get everything you want/need for the best in Linux Supported Product. Careful.
The companies have the potential for a proprietary extension into the Linux environment (GPL/LGPL) to a degree not seen. How do I say this?
RedHat is the provider of the Linux OS and has the ability to ship anything that they want with it, including proprietary packaging if they wanted to. This is contrary to the philosophies of the non-profit distrobutions like Debain and Gentoo among others.
Dell controls the hardware source that goes into these machines, allowing the focus to concentrate on one product line and de-focus on everything else
Oracle is a highly proprietary 800-pound gorrilla that already has interests in keeping in that way.
It's a great way to maximize the profits of the three corporations at the expense of the guy paying the bills at the other end. It starts with the support. If certain improvements are made to the system and are held under Oracle, then they are shipped as binaries and un-reviewable by the rest of the community.
Now that there are sections which are closed, it is fairly trivial to ship enhanced product lines which are tied to those sections without violating the GPL but also rendering RedHat with a block of code which works as a kernel level key. Some key portion of the RedHat system won't work without the Proprietary object included and the Oracle database won't work without the Proprietary Object that is only available from RedHat. Meanwhile ALL of the hardware that is supported consists of only that which is provided in the Dell build sheet.
There is some great potential here for one of the greatest supporters of the Linux OS to start edging themselves somwhere between the OS developers and OS movement and the proprietary foothold that forces payment
I don't know that RedHat is entirely like this, but I've heard comments from more and more people that they are becoming increasingly aggressive in their financial tactics to dictate payment schedules. What worries me about this is that Oracle is the next closest thing to Microsoft in their aggressive and morally questionable business practices.
Personally, I believe that the philosophy of Open Source, as outlines originally by ESR is more valuable socially and therefore economically than the stock option performance of these three companies and as such, this ideology needs to be preserved in the face of such movements. Not that they are bad, they are part of the migration process. But it is imparative that these migrations keep moving things forward in a constructive direction rather than becoming some instrument of code oppression that allow companies to exercise baseless claims (legally and advertising) and practice FUD tactics.
This could have two edges to the blade. Linux is recognized as a real enterprise level solution and can start being accepted into the Corporate IT fray, or only two companies can provide Linux (IBM and RedHat) and everything else belongs to the terrorists, crackers, child molesters, and dead-beat dads.
I've been hearing more and more about this one. It seems to me that we will eventually end up with approximately 5 distributions:
RedHat
Suse
Debian
Gentoo
[mandrake but it's too much like RedHat]
With the only real difference between these different distributions is the package management and release cycle philosophies that each employs.
The others will muck about in the background until one of them comes up with a revolutionary enough idea to succeed one of those listed. And to go with that, these forerunner distros will muck about until one of them becomes to misdirected that it becomes easy prey and it consumed in a feeding frenzy.
This time Katz is right. Star Wars, Attack of the Clones kind of sucks. Why? I think it's because he sold his soul out to Hollywood again and made a crappy movie that appeals to some non-existent demographic that Hollywood was trying to appeal to.
I am more than a little disappointed in the failure of these last two episodes of Star Wars in the manner in which they have gone utterly cheesy.
It wasn't in the nature of Star Wars originally to have the heroine running around with frozen nipples and flashing skin to try and sell to the crown of American Pie. Similarly, the love affair may have relevance, but they could have shortened all the scenes considerably. Afterall, I don't think it helped Titanic that everyone was knocking boots all through the cargo holds and it certainly didn't help here.
Sorry Lucas, but you've really sold out and have lost the edge that you once had. Whatever happened to your eye of the tiger?
This is a trip! Consider the scenario we are facing in the coming years.
The ISP's are limiting our bandwidth useage to something under a couple of movies per week/month or other comparable useage.
The cable modem people are selling services on that basis of being able to get these movies, once they exist.
The MPAA/RIAA is actively trying to limit what you can do with a computer based on their facts of unlimited bandwidth results in unlimited piracy of music and film products.
When the dust settles we will have the following conditions to be true:
You can get movies on-line using your new internet appliances that are sold by Disney and Universal Studios. But you can only view 2 per month.
You will keep your regular TV-Cable because you can view more movies there per week
Since you can't do anything interesting with a computer anymore except IM and email until you hit your data cap -- you will be very hard pressed to justify the extraordinary cost of the MSFT-DISNEY-AOL internet appliances
We'll all go back to renting video tapes and watching re-runs on TV and the internet will only be useful for making some purchases, some email, and a few other things. But the roadblocks imposed by the Corporatization of the Internet will result in the degredation of the Internet to such a point that it's usefulness will be limited and no one Corporation, or Group, will be able to realize any of it's potential.
If you think you can get ahead by skipping college then you are in for a BIG FAT SHOCK
Without a College Degree you are still just a High School Lackey and that's all you will ever be. If you can't cut College, then I would suggest the Navy Seals or equivelant.
There are too many kids out there who think they are hot sh#t just because then know their way around a computer. But without the back ground training and education, you will always be readily displaced by someone with a real education.
Even if someone can prove you don't need a College Degree to do your job, you will need one to keep it. HR will always assume a College Boy is smarter than a High Schooler.
It's disturbing that you are even thinking you can get away with this as a career path. What's more disturbing is the number of people who think you can do it. That's BS and if they don't know it, they will soon enough. You will forever be limited in what you can achieve without a College Degree unless you:
Go it alone and start your own business
Go into real estate
End up working for someone else who isn't Educated
You never really explained why you don't care for Debian. But you should know better than to drop flame-bait like this.
Debian is stable
Debian is consistent
Can't beat that with any other distribution on the market, free or otherwise. And no, I cannot name 11 differenct architectures, can you? Can RedHat? Can anyone claim to have support like this?
Slashdot Mirror
I don't know what the news is for you, but you certainly don't need to take this opportunity to do distro comparisons.
I've never been able to get gentoo working on two of my machines, albeit identical, because the video RAM is too small for 24-bit color. Yet Debian doesn't flinch.
Debian has better documentation and support than gentoo, hands down. Now go away.
I would think that social activity might have more benefit than political activity.
Political activity takes money, lawyers, and the Art of Deception. Things that not many of us have.
Social activity takes effort, time, people. Things that some of us have.
I hate to start like this, but...
When I was a child, my grandmother made me read out loud to her. And if I fudged the pronounciation of anything, she made me get it right. I hated it.
Now I realize that she has done me a great service for I can read and speak much clearer and with better enunciation than most of those around me.
Similarly, if you do not know that terms like 'u', 'r', and ':)' are not to be considered proper forms of the written language, then you will look like a blithering fool later on. Can you imagine someone making a million dollar pitch and filling it with LEET SPEAK? I don't think he will get very far unless he intends to use this as a marketing ploy.
I think that the teachers are doing a disservice to anyone whom they tolerate with their 'net abbreviations.
No it won't. People are simple about things that they don't want to understand that much about.
How much do you know about the detail operations of your Car? How about your Computer? Different strokes for different folks.
If I want a car, I look for something with four wheels, engine, seats, and a good radio. If I want a Computer, I have a six page list of detailed specifications. Different Strokes for Different Folks.
PHB's are not going to ever be concerned with which Distribution they are using. It's enough of a bother that they have to decide between MSFT, SUN, and RedHat.
Good point. But Marketing types insist that everyone convert to their version of the Truth.
To be honest. While I have not personally seen much about RedHat that would implicate them as being anything Evil, what does bother me is that the general thinking in Corporate America is the RedHat is the One True Linux distrobution and that all the others (including Debian, Slackware - my two personal favorites) are all a bunch of unprofessional butt-heads who are unreliable and generally lame.
Now, none of this has anything to do with the truth. But it says volumes about the impression that Corporate PHB's are left with regarding the Linux Distribution Community.
Does this mean that RedHat has Evil Marketing types? I don't know. I've hardly ever seen an advertisement from them. But I don't think that they are Bad.
But what this does mean is that the IT Community will preferentially decide upon One Solution and rally around that single Icon forsaking all others. You want proof? Look at Apple. No one rallies around Apple these days (not much) even though they have a remarkable product and have somehow managed to survived all these years.
But if you mention using something that is outside of the Accepted Standards, and there can be only one, then you are considered a renegade. And why do IT Types think that RedHat == Linux? Because RedHat markets their ability to provide Service Agreements where Debian can not, and Slackware, Mandrake, Suse, don't (at least not in the US).
It is not enough that there may be a hundred companies that are willing to support something like Debian, it's not Debian directly. And for a Corporate Mentality where everything must be subcontracted out in tidy packages -- this is too confusing and too much potential for problems. There is risk for finger pointing and what's worse is this. If something goes wrong with the software, you really can't sue something like gentoo or Debian as they are non-profit companies without a single corporal entity that can be legally raped when the sacrifices are called for.
RedHat isn't evil. They are just smart. I do wish they would get a better package management tool though. I've seen too many posts about rebuilding rpm libraries to even consider using it.
I ran into a comment from a PHB who several times called Linux, "RedHat" even with the numerous corrections given him in the room. So, in a sense, RedHat has become the next Windows. It is synonymous with the concept of Linux.
After all, how many PHB's out there really know that their is something besides Windows or what an Operation System is?
Actually, you got that one backwards. It is because the physical appearance of Linux users has changed from outside to something on the inside that it can flourish in the Big Business community.
Give her a joystick!
Seriously, if you are really that concerned about PRACTICAL versus TRADITION then why are you getting married?
So, the answer is this. There is no RATIONAL explaination for getting married and there is no RATIONAL explaination behind getting diamonds.
What you are missing here is that marriage is an emotional bond between two people first. Emotions, unfortunately, don't jive well with Rationality. Ask Science Officer Spock, he knows.
So don't think to hard about it. Get the diamond and get on with it. Save your financial fortitude for other matters that are less emotional
I just did a full installation starting with a single CD. To get the rest of the files I had to download from a cable-modem and install the packages.
Time from initial boot to final GUI (wdm) based login: 60 minutes.
And this is done on a Pentium MMX PC!!!
If you want speed and simplicity, Debian.
I have a single disk for Debian
I also have a single disk for Gentoo
Perhaps your Red Hat is too big for you
Sorry to chime in like some flame bait. But I've been using KDE, Gnome, and Windows for a while (5+ years on each?).
WindowMaker has a pleasant appearance, lightweight, and not like Windows. I can't say this for the others listed. It's much better on the eyes than fvwm, twm, or the other strict WM's
I think that the answer is more something like WindowMaker than KDE. KDE reminds me too much of windows, not only in their desktop, but in their binding KDE-based applications into the KDE menu bar at the bottom. I don't use Kwrite or Kmail - but there they are. I don't like that. It doesn't allow me to stick to a reduced interface with only what I want visible to be visible.
WindowMaker is based on NEXT and that's a darn nice and different interface. Personally, it's either that or something similar that will supercede Windows. Not the Windows-Like interface that we keep pathetically copying.
The only thing I would add to the likes of Windowmaker is the ability to use the background as some kind of application window. Maybe like a ActiveDesktop - but limited to the current system, not web-centric.
What really caught my eye about this article was the 47% increase in sales personnel that they have planned for 2003. If Server sales are down, and the competition is getting harder, then what is the implication of putting so much effort behind your sales organization?
Answer: Microsoft is not a technology software company. Microsoft is a technology Marketing company. Most of us probably already realize this, but Microsoft traditionally has not really created much Technically. But their ability to spin Marketing and Sales into a great package is unparalleled.
This isn't some kind of admission that Linux wins, or IBM wins, or Microsoft Loses. The fact that they have such emphasis on their Sales staff implicates that they are going to be continuing to push as hard as they can with the Sales Tactics in order to stay the coming changes
You will see some improvement.
With the exception of security upgrades, how often do you really need to do upgrades?
Compiling everything wouldn't be that bad once you knew the process. I figure I won't be upgrading XFree or KDE for a very long time anyways.
What is 2% of hundreds of friggin programs anyways? Doesn't that add up to something?
I have been working with a variety of distributions out there and have come to the conclusion that, if you want it to work and work well, the Debian is probably the most trusted distribution out there. If you want bells and whistles, then you need to go someplace else.
On thing I have to mention here. If Debian merged with GenTOO, then there would be no stopping them! Optimal package compiles coupled with the best package management system AND the BEST PACKAGE MANAGERS out there. Now that would be cool!
I have to hand it to the Debian folks. They have an excellent policy that puts quality and reliability in front of everything else. I can trust this distribution to work on machines that I can't even access directly.
I quit! Now my tax dollars are going to pay for software to protect Windows from their own shitty design!
Some days it doesn't pay to get out of bed!
Rather than the problems of commodity purchasing and managing over 1,000 machines. Do the Linux Terminal Server Project approach. Short of full screen gaming, this stuff works really well for pooling up to 300 users onto a single Linux box. OK, 300 is a stretch, but 30 isn't, it's quite manageable. That lowers your management from 1000 to ~33 machines!
The point is that the management of an ltsp driven company is going to be much less than that of a workstation-by-workstation environment. And to top it off, the clients become something that will hardly ever need upgrades or patches. You will have to worry about hardware failures before you need to upgrade the CPU or RAM
It's so obvious now.
Palladium isn't for you. It's for them. They have never been able to get the SOFTWARE to be secure. So now they have resorted to the only possible solution that still gives everyone root. They have decided to get a HARDWARE based solution instead.
The best thing about this Palladium for MSFT is that they don't have to worry about anymore security problems. It will all become a problem of Intel and AMD, the keepers of the hardware key.
I have saved ~30% every time I've built a computer from scratch. The other aspect to consider is that with the package deals, you might not necessarily get everything you want/need for the best in Linux Supported Product. Careful.
The companies have the potential for a proprietary extension into the Linux environment (GPL/LGPL) to a degree not seen. How do I say this?
It's a great way to maximize the profits of the three corporations at the expense of the guy paying the bills at the other end. It starts with the support. If certain improvements are made to the system and are held under Oracle, then they are shipped as binaries and un-reviewable by the rest of the community.
Now that there are sections which are closed, it is fairly trivial to ship enhanced product lines which are tied to those sections without violating the GPL but also rendering RedHat with a block of code which works as a kernel level key. Some key portion of the RedHat system won't work without the Proprietary object included and the Oracle database won't work without the Proprietary Object that is only available from RedHat. Meanwhile ALL of the hardware that is supported consists of only that which is provided in the Dell build sheet.There is some great potential here for one of the greatest supporters of the Linux OS to start edging themselves somwhere between the OS developers and OS movement and the proprietary foothold that forces payment
I don't know that RedHat is entirely like this, but I've heard comments from more and more people that they are becoming increasingly aggressive in their financial tactics to dictate payment schedules. What worries me about this is that Oracle is the next closest thing to Microsoft in their aggressive and morally questionable business practices.
Personally, I believe that the philosophy of Open Source, as outlines originally by ESR is more valuable socially and therefore economically than the stock option performance of these three companies and as such, this ideology needs to be preserved in the face of such movements. Not that they are bad, they are part of the migration process. But it is imparative that these migrations keep moving things forward in a constructive direction rather than becoming some instrument of code oppression that allow companies to exercise baseless claims (legally and advertising) and practice FUD tactics.
This could have two edges to the blade. Linux is recognized as a real enterprise level solution and can start being accepted into the Corporate IT fray, or only two companies can provide Linux (IBM and RedHat) and everything else belongs to the terrorists, crackers, child molesters, and dead-beat dads.
I've been hearing more and more about this one. It seems to me that we will eventually end up with approximately 5 distributions:
With the only real difference between these different distributions is the package management and release cycle philosophies that each employs.
The others will muck about in the background until one of them comes up with a revolutionary enough idea to succeed one of those listed. And to go with that, these forerunner distros will muck about until one of them becomes to misdirected that it becomes easy prey and it consumed in a feeding frenzy.
This time Katz is right. Star Wars, Attack of the Clones kind of sucks. Why? I think it's because he sold his soul out to Hollywood again and made a crappy movie that appeals to some non-existent demographic that Hollywood was trying to appeal to.
I am more than a little disappointed in the failure of these last two episodes of Star Wars in the manner in which they have gone utterly cheesy.
It wasn't in the nature of Star Wars originally to have the heroine running around with frozen nipples and flashing skin to try and sell to the crown of American Pie. Similarly, the love affair may have relevance, but they could have shortened all the scenes considerably. Afterall, I don't think it helped Titanic that everyone was knocking boots all through the cargo holds and it certainly didn't help here.
Sorry Lucas, but you've really sold out and have lost the edge that you once had. Whatever happened to your eye of the tiger?
This is a trip! Consider the scenario we are facing in the coming years.
When the dust settles we will have the following conditions to be true:
We'll all go back to renting video tapes and watching re-runs on TV and the internet will only be useful for making some purchases, some email, and a few other things. But the roadblocks imposed by the Corporatization of the Internet will result in the degredation of the Internet to such a point that it's usefulness will be limited and no one Corporation, or Group, will be able to realize any of it's potential.
The internet will suck.
Go to College
If you think you can get ahead by skipping college then you are in for a BIG FAT SHOCK
Without a College Degree you are still just a High School Lackey and that's all you will ever be. If you can't cut College, then I would suggest the Navy Seals or equivelant.
There are too many kids out there who think they are hot sh#t just because then know their way around a computer. But without the back ground training and education, you will always be readily displaced by someone with a real education.
Even if someone can prove you don't need a College Degree to do your job, you will need one to keep it. HR will always assume a College Boy is smarter than a High Schooler.
It's disturbing that you are even thinking you can get away with this as a career path. What's more disturbing is the number of people who think you can do it. That's BS and if they don't know it, they will soon enough. You will forever be limited in what you can achieve without a College Degree unless you:
This article was originally posted on theRegister and in their posting, they do mention the phrase purportedly from Peruvian Congressman...
Can any of this actually be verified? Or are we all the subject of a anit-FUD FUD campaign put out by a very smart dude (whom I like!)
You never really explained why you don't care for Debian. But you should know better than to drop flame-bait like this.
Debian is stable
Debian is consistent
Can't beat that with any other distribution on the market, free or otherwise. And no, I cannot name 11 differenct architectures, can you? Can RedHat? Can anyone claim to have support like this?