What pisses me off about distribution reviews is the emphasis most reviewers put on hardware detection. When is the last time anyone here installed Windows and it automatically came up running with the latest video and sound drivers with all of your USB devices working perfectly? How about never? Why do reviewers, and just new Linux users in general, expect this from Linux? Then, in ignorance, fault the distro for the problem without ever bothering to see if the packaged kernel even comes witha a driver and on top of that, never even bother seeking support or learning how to use fskcing modprobe. If I see one more review talking about "It didn't detect my sound card!! woe is me, Linux sucks.", I might have a breakdown.
The only REAL difference between the big distros is the package manager. All the other stuff is cosmetic or trivial. Comes with somewhat recent GNOME, KDE, blah blah blah, who cares.
Gentoo is probably only mainstream distro out that that doesn't try to spoil the user during install but instead teaches them the fundamentals right off. So once you got the system running, you already know how to do things like mount drives,format drives, install drivers, install a new kernel, configure X windows, etc and your not floundering around like some idiot. All those skills are distro independant and are transferable to any distro you sit down at.
My shit used to get stolen at Above.net in Tysons Corner all the time. Never machines or anything but like wierd stuff. Network patch cables, power cables. Someone even stole my "llama crossing sign".
Any law that is going to limit the distribution of violent games to minors will pass because pretty much 99% of people who oppose the law are not old enough to vote.
...it doens't perfectly detect every piece of crappy hardware you own....oh...wait...Windows doesn't either...you have to load drivers manually...
Well crap. How come all these fools install 900 distros trying to get their sound card detected when all they have to do is load a driver just like in windows?
Of course, it was modded to zero because god forbid Fedora, Debian, and Mandrake loose even more users to Gentoo.
Gentoo is a young distro with lots of young people learning how to troubleshoot/install source packages and learning how to build a linux system from the ground up. These people are learning system maintainence skills that transfer to ANY distro. Someday, a Gentoo guy is going to take your job. Considerng, many of the users are 15 and under, by the time they graduate college they'll have like 7 or 8 years hard core linux experience. Throw in Java and C++ learned at school and you'll be standing in the unemployment line with 'RPM' listed as a legacy skill on your resume.
I'm guessing Gentoo has brought more U.S. desktop users to Linux any distro in the last year or more. I'm making this statment simply by the fact I know of at least 20 people who hated Linux until Gentoo and now use it for everything. You might be complaining about compiling a lot, I complain a lot more that my Redhat X.X machines are no longer supported and to keep the box secure I have to wrangle with a mixure of RPM and source packages or take them down and reinstall a new OS. No thanks, its source distro for me from now on thanks.
At work we have a shared drive where compiled binaries go so if your the first to emerge a giant world update, binary packages are made available for the whole office. Nothing like coming back from vacation to a fresh set of Athlon-64 KDE 3.2.2 packages.
The pubs in Canada are wonderful, friendly places full of friendly unpretentious people for the most part as long as you don't make it obvious you're American.
Ever try the Washington DC area....specifically Northern Virginia. Its more like:
The pubs in Northern Virginia are ugly, horrible places full of unfriendly pretentious redneck people for the most part as long as you're American, otherwise, its even worse.
No, I can't say that I've ever had a bad experience with Linux. Matter of fact, I'm currently writing a kernel driver for my Synaptics LCD touchpad on my Toshiba laptop.
Why do this? Just install 17 different distros till it works.
I don't scoff at the average person owning/running a computer...not sure how you would get that idea. I scoff at people who are so called 'experts' who attempt to install what I consider an engineering tool, and can't get it to work properly.
Even most avergage joe computer users can download a driver from the Internet and install it with Windows. Windows is not going properly detect every piece of software you have, especially if its a newer system. How many times after installing Windows have you had to install a sound driver and video driver? Why would people installing Linux not need to know how to do this as well? Granted the process is different but its a skill you need to run either OS. What happens when you get something new? Do you then reinstall the disto to see if it detects it? You don't think knowing how to download/install/load a driver is useful for a new Linux user to know?
Just because somebody doesn't know how something works or can't work on it does *NOT* mean that they shouldn't use it.
Thats the funniest thing I've heard all week. Lets see, if I don't know how to use a gun...I should just go ahead and start shooting without instruction? Or a hypodermic needle? Or drive a car without knowing how? Or fly a plane? Or use a chainsaw?
All your examples make no sense. Yes, I can wear a shirt without knowing how to sew because using a sewing machine is not required to know how to put it on. Duh. Just like its not required I can skin a chicken to eat a chicken. Just like I can ride in a plane without knowing how to fly or use a word processor without knowing how to repair a PC. Linux is the tool, not a product.
Don't you think its wise you learn how to use a tool before attempting to use it? Some better examples are:
you can view a website running on linux without knowning linux...but you can't setup a website on linux without knowing at least something about linux.
you can print something though a linux print server but you can't setup your own linux print server.
you can access the internet through a linux router...but you can't setup a linux router on your own.
Do you see my point? Everyone has used a car without knowing how to fix it just like every has downloaded a webpage from a Linux server without know how to admin the server.
I've said this 1000 times,Linux IS A TOOL. Linux is the torque wrench, its the high end power tool, its mother of all swiss army knives. Its not some happy fun OS that will give you the warm fuzzies and show you pictures of happy senior citizens while you install it. Its a TOOL designed for doing whatever task your skilled enough make it do.
Apparently you got p0wned by Linux and have hard feelings. If I tried to replace a cracked block on my car without knowing how to use the right tools, and the engine fell on me, then well, I'd be embarassed too.
The point is, if you want to use this new tool we call 'Linux',then you should at least browse the manual to learn the basic concepts of use because othewise....IT MIGHT NOT WORK RIGHT. Imagine that.
Well, your lucky that your job is giving you the opportunity to learn it. My first IT job was at a ISP that was Windows based. I was the first employee. I did sales, support, and system administation. When the owner said we were moving the servers to Linux, I was upset. I mean, it didn't even have a GUI!?! After about 2 weeks....I was loath to sit at a windows box. Just seeing the 'My Computer' icon made me sick. The reason was that after just a small amount of Linux training I was able to do so much more with Linux and do it in a shorter amount of time than with Windows...and do it from my desk via SSH. None of this PC anywhere crap or having to walk to the machine. Everything was text in/text out, no strange binary configuration files so I could write scripts and stuff to automate all kinds of tasks I used to do by hand.
In less than a month I had moved every machine I owned to Linux...that was like before GNOME and before KDE. I used Afterstep and WindowMaker on my workstation.
I still keep a Windows partition for playing the occasional game but since UT2004 came out, I rarely boot into it. If you really like computers and you want to move to the 'next level', Linux is the obvious choice.
The only thing I suggest is don't expect the installer to totally setup all your hardware for you. Take the time to actually learn how the kernel module system works, how to load/unload modules, pass config options to them, etc. You know how to do it in Windows right? If the Windows installer doesn't detect something, you know how to load a driver right? You don't go install a different version of Windows right? Same thing for Linux.
Learn how to actually play the instrament instead of memorizing a series of notes.
No, you're way off here. Note that he said sound *did* work until he rebooted. Clearly the issue is not that of not having kernel support, it is hardware configuration tools not setting his card up appropriately.
I'm way off? So your saying hardware support is distro specific and not kernel specific and that by upgrading your kernel....you would not get additional hardware support?
For real, new people are better off going with Gentoo because there is no installer. You are forced to learn how Linux works instead of having a magical installer do things for you and then have no idea what it did to get the card working.
I thought we were trying to get linux off the High level PC user status, and closer towards the average user.
I don't know. Noone told me about this. Granted, Linux is much easier to install and setup than ever before. I don't use it for ease of use though, I don't know a single person would want to subject the average PC use to a raw UNIX clone. I use it for the cool software, the protection against virii/worms, the massive amount of development tools, and because I'm a PC hobbyist who likes to mess with stuff. I've been using Linux for like 7 years and I still feel like a n00b...there is just so much to learn. My wife uses Linux no problem and she is a PC n00b...I doubt she could ever in a million years actually install it though.
On a side note If i have a sound card, shopping for an OS to match it doesn't seem like the best method. For instance: If i am at work and upgrade a pc to a new OS at the request of Whomever, I don't go tell them NO because their sound card won't work. I install the OS and try the sound card, and worst case I switch. Which perhaps this guy should have done.
You don't have to install the OS and try the sound card, you go to http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/ and look and see if its in the list. No guess work what so ever. There are other drivers as well, like at http://www.opensound.com
By the way what is the ratio of supported soundcards for ALSA(sp) to Windows?
Who knows. The problem is that the Linux community has to reverse engineer the sound cards. They get very little help from the DSP manufacturer because a. they don't care and b. they are afraid of accidently giving away thier IP to the GPL.
and is this support standard across say nine distros.
This is pretty much the root of all MDIR. Hardware support is part of the kernel, not the distribution. For example, if you install Mandrake 9 and your sound card is not supported then one day kernel 2.6.x comes out with support for your card, by installing that kernel, you will have support for that card with Mandrake 9. In other words, disitrbutions support whatever hardware that the kernel they ship with supports and will continue to support more hardware as you update your kernel.
No, its that homework you do when your attempt to install an operating system 'rumored' to be for high level PC users. Its just common sense you would check if your hardware is supported. At least, anyone who has even the slightest bit of Linux experience knows that.
The guy is just another 'PC expert' baffoon who just wants to get noticed by writing an anti-linux article.
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What pisses me off about distribution reviews is the emphasis most reviewers put on hardware detection. When is the last time anyone here installed Windows and it automatically came up running with the latest video and sound drivers with all of your USB devices working perfectly? How about never? Why do reviewers, and just new Linux users in general, expect this from Linux? Then, in ignorance, fault the distro for the problem without ever bothering to see if the packaged kernel even comes witha a driver and on top of that, never even bother seeking support or learning how to use fskcing modprobe. If I see one more review talking about "It didn't detect my sound card!! woe is me, Linux sucks.", I might have a breakdown.
The only REAL difference between the big distros is the package manager. All the other stuff is cosmetic or trivial. Comes with somewhat recent GNOME, KDE, blah blah blah, who cares.
Gentoo is probably only mainstream distro out that that doesn't try to spoil the user during install but instead teaches them the fundamentals right off. So once you got the system running, you already know how to do things like mount drives,format drives, install drivers, install a new kernel, configure X windows, etc and your not floundering around like some idiot. All those skills are distro independant and are transferable to any distro you sit down at.
My shit used to get stolen at Above.net in Tysons Corner all the time. Never machines or anything but like wierd stuff. Network patch cables, power cables. Someone even stole my "llama crossing sign".
Any law that is going to limit the distribution of violent games to minors will pass because pretty much 99% of people who oppose the law are not old enough to vote.
Sun sucks. They should crawl off and die.
Well crap. How come all these fools install 900 distros trying to get their sound card detected when all they have to do is load a driver just like in windows?
When it comes to stinky dog shit milkshakes, Solaris is the obvious choice.
"Yeeeeaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!"
It doesn't have to say it. Don't we get the right to do anything we want as long as the law doesn't actually forbid it? Thats how I thought it worked.
How is this funny? Someone should mod it down for being redundant and over played.
Sun is a piece of shit company who changes its stance on Linux every two weeks. I wish they would just hurry up and die.
Of course, it was modded to zero because god forbid Fedora, Debian, and Mandrake loose even more users to Gentoo.
Gentoo is a young distro with lots of young people learning how to troubleshoot/install source packages and learning how to build a linux system from the ground up. These people are learning system maintainence skills that transfer to ANY distro. Someday, a Gentoo guy is going to take your job. Considerng, many of the users are 15 and under, by the time they graduate college they'll have like 7 or 8 years hard core linux experience. Throw in Java and C++ learned at school and you'll be standing in the unemployment line with 'RPM' listed as a legacy skill on your resume.
HAHA, the rebublicans trolled you.
They call these 'mysteries' my friend. If you don't believe in them you go to hell. So buckle up.
I'm guessing Gentoo has brought more U.S. desktop users to Linux any distro in the last year or more. I'm making this statment simply by the fact I know of at least 20 people who hated Linux until Gentoo and now use it for everything. You might be complaining about compiling a lot, I complain a lot more that my Redhat X.X machines are no longer supported and to keep the box secure I have to wrangle with a mixure of RPM and source packages or take them down and reinstall a new OS. No thanks, its source distro for me from now on thanks.
At work we have a shared drive where compiled binaries go so if your the first to emerge a giant world update, binary packages are made available for the whole office. Nothing like coming back from vacation to a fresh set of Athlon-64 KDE 3.2.2 packages.
Luckily Linux is a multi-tasking operating system...so, you can learn about the Binary packages while your compiling.
Maybe they found some big secret in the Windows source code.
Ever try the Washington DC area....specifically Northern Virginia. Its more like:
The pubs in Northern Virginia are ugly, horrible places full of unfriendly pretentious redneck people for the most part as long as you're American, otherwise, its even worse.
Sooo...your the one I have to blame for the latest run of shit on the PC game shelves? You bastard.
For real though...how many corners can you cut with what is basically system that executes 2 lines of code:
$bush++;
or
$kerry++;
Why do this? Just install 17 different distros till it works.
I don't scoff at the average person owning/running a computer...not sure how you would get that idea. I scoff at people who are so called 'experts' who attempt to install what I consider an engineering tool, and can't get it to work properly.
Even most avergage joe computer users can download a driver from the Internet and install it with Windows. Windows is not going properly detect every piece of software you have, especially if its a newer system. How many times after installing Windows have you had to install a sound driver and video driver? Why would people installing Linux not need to know how to do this as well? Granted the process is different but its a skill you need to run either OS. What happens when you get something new? Do you then reinstall the disto to see if it detects it? You don't think knowing how to download/install/load a driver is useful for a new Linux user to know?
Thats the funniest thing I've heard all week. Lets see, if I don't know how to use a gun...I should just go ahead and start shooting without instruction? Or a hypodermic needle? Or drive a car without knowing how? Or fly a plane? Or use a chainsaw?
All your examples make no sense. Yes, I can wear a shirt without knowing how to sew because using a sewing machine is not required to know how to put it on. Duh. Just like its not required I can skin a chicken to eat a chicken. Just like I can ride in a plane without knowing how to fly or use a word processor without knowing how to repair a PC. Linux is the tool, not a product.
Don't you think its wise you learn how to use a tool before attempting to use it? Some better examples are:
Do you see my point? Everyone has used a car without knowing how to fix it just like every has downloaded a webpage from a Linux server without know how to admin the server.
I've said this 1000 times,Linux IS A TOOL. Linux is the torque wrench, its the high end power tool, its mother of all swiss army knives. Its not some happy fun OS that will give you the warm fuzzies and show you pictures of happy senior citizens while you install it. Its a TOOL designed for doing whatever task your skilled enough make it do.
Apparently you got p0wned by Linux and have hard feelings. If I tried to replace a cracked block on my car without knowing how to use the right tools, and the engine fell on me, then well, I'd be embarassed too.
The point is, if you want to use this new tool we call 'Linux',then you should at least browse the manual to learn the basic concepts of use because othewise....IT MIGHT NOT WORK RIGHT. Imagine that.
Well, your lucky that your job is giving you the opportunity to learn it. My first IT job was at a ISP that was Windows based. I was the first employee. I did sales, support, and system administation. When the owner said we were moving the servers to Linux, I was upset. I mean, it didn't even have a GUI!?! After about 2 weeks....I was loath to sit at a windows box. Just seeing the 'My Computer' icon made me sick. The reason was that after just a small amount of Linux training I was able to do so much more with Linux and do it in a shorter amount of time than with Windows...and do it from my desk via SSH. None of this PC anywhere crap or having to walk to the machine. Everything was text in/text out, no strange binary configuration files so I could write scripts and stuff to automate all kinds of tasks I used to do by hand.
In less than a month I had moved every machine I owned to Linux...that was like before GNOME and before KDE. I used Afterstep and WindowMaker on my workstation.
I still keep a Windows partition for playing the occasional game but since UT2004 came out, I rarely boot into it. If you really like computers and you want to move to the 'next level', Linux is the obvious choice.
The only thing I suggest is don't expect the installer to totally setup all your hardware for you. Take the time to actually learn how the kernel module system works, how to load/unload modules, pass config options to them, etc. You know how to do it in Windows right? If the Windows installer doesn't detect something, you know how to load a driver right? You don't go install a different version of Windows right? Same thing for Linux.
Learn how to actually play the instrament instead of memorizing a series of notes.
I'm way off? So your saying hardware support is distro specific and not kernel specific and that by upgrading your kernel....you would not get additional hardware support?
For real, new people are better off going with Gentoo because there is no installer. You are forced to learn how Linux works instead of having a magical installer do things for you and then have no idea what it did to get the card working.
I don't know. Noone told me about this. Granted, Linux is much easier to install and setup than ever before. I don't use it for ease of use though, I don't know a single person would want to subject the average PC use to a raw UNIX clone. I use it for the cool software, the protection against virii/worms, the massive amount of development tools, and because I'm a PC hobbyist who likes to mess with stuff. I've been using Linux for like 7 years and I still feel like a n00b...there is just so much to learn. My wife uses Linux no problem and she is a PC n00b...I doubt she could ever in a million years actually install it though.
On a side note If i have a sound card, shopping for an OS to match it doesn't seem like the best method. For instance: If i am at work and upgrade a pc to a new OS at the request of Whomever, I don't go tell them NO because their sound card won't work. I install the OS and try the sound card, and worst case I switch. Which perhaps this guy should have done.You don't have to install the OS and try the sound card, you go to http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/ and look and see if its in the list. No guess work what so ever. There are other drivers as well, like at http://www.opensound.com
By the way what is the ratio of supported soundcards for ALSA(sp) to Windows?Who knows. The problem is that the Linux community has to reverse engineer the sound cards. They get very little help from the DSP manufacturer because a. they don't care and b. they are afraid of accidently giving away thier IP to the GPL.
and is this support standard across say nine distros.This is pretty much the root of all MDIR. Hardware support is part of the kernel, not the distribution. For example, if you install Mandrake 9 and your sound card is not supported then one day kernel 2.6.x comes out with support for your card, by installing that kernel, you will have support for that card with Mandrake 9. In other words, disitrbutions support whatever hardware that the kernel they ship with supports and will continue to support more hardware as you update your kernel.
No, its that homework you do when your attempt to install an operating system 'rumored' to be for high level PC users. Its just common sense you would check if your hardware is supported. At least, anyone who has even the slightest bit of Linux experience knows that.
The guy is just another 'PC expert' baffoon who just wants to get noticed by writing an anti-linux article.