There is a space in that link that shouldn't be there.
Anyway, the NDS card thing is a very different issue than what we are discussing for a couple of reasons.
1. The people who are getting jacked over in these cases are getting sued. It is a civil matter and they are usually caving in without going to trial.
2. The reason people are settling rather than going to trial is that they are guilty of breaking the law (i.e. stealing satellite).
3. People who have been prosecuted criminally have been charged with stealing cable, not modifying hardware. They modified hardware to steal cable but that is not what they are prosecuted for.
4. There is a case for prosecuting someone for modifying hardware if they are renting it. You cannot rent something and screw around with it but if you own it, it is fair game. If the user is renting the equipment from the satellite company (which is common) modifying it is equivalent to vandalism.
There is a space in that link that shouldn't be there.
Anyway, the NDS card thing is a very different issue than what we are discussing for a couple of reasons.
1. The people who are getting jacked over in these cases are getting sued. It is a civil matter and they are usually caving in without going to trial. 2. The reason people are settling rather than going to trial is that they are guilty of breaking the law (i.e. stealing satellite).
3. People who have been prosecuted criminally have been charged with stealing cable, not modifying hardware. They modified hardware to steal cable but that is not what they are prosecuted for.
4. There is a case for prosecuting someone for modifying hardware if they are renting it. You cannot rent something and screw around with it but if you own it, it is fair game. If the user is renting the equipment from the satellite company (which is common) modifying it is equivalent to vandalism.
This is my third post on this subject but I am getting pretty exasperated with some of these responses. The fact of the matter is that in the U.S. it is most definitely NOT illegal to buy something in Japan and bring it to the U.S. You need to declare it to customs and might have to pay an import duty or something. You will not have a warranty in the U.S. but you are not breaking any laws by owning a Japanese GC and games. I think what has happened is that the propaganda has really gotten into the consumers head and many now believe that what some companies wish in their most fervent dreams were illegal is, in fact, ileegal. This is not true but if enough people, like the grandparent poster, believe it then it may as well be. Maybe I'm just being naive but I had no idea that people were so willing to bend over and take it from industry.
Explain to them the media is completely ruined and that it was a big chunk of change.Let them contemplate that...
Either you don't spend much time around kids or you spend time around some exceptionally mature ones. Keep in mind that we are talking about little people that pick their nose and eat it.
As I pointed out in another post, all the examples you gave are violations of the law. Violating an existing law is a completely tangental issue to violating an arbitrary set of regulations that a company would like to have on their product. As long as you are violating any law, you are fine. For example, you can legally mod your Xbox or PS2 all you want as long as you do not infringe on any copyrights (i.e. games or BIOS code).
Of course, you are right about warranties. For the most part, they are left to the discretion of the manufacturer (or retailer). The only irritating thing about the warranty warnings is that they are often written in a way that suggests that you would be breaking the law if you do something to violate the warranty. This is just consumer intimidation and it is getting a little bit tiresome.
This may be somewhat off-topic but have you ever noticed how some commercial software (i.e. from MS) will say "Do not make illegal copies of this software" on the CD? They don't want to say "Don't make any copies of this disk" because they would get taken to task over that. They just want to make the casual consumer think copy == illegal. Why else would they point out that you shouldn't do something illegal? I think most mentally competent adults understand that, by definition, they are not to do anything that is illegal.
I am not a lawyer but I play one on slashdot. Seriously, I usually avoid these legal discussions like the plague but the attitude that you have adopted seems to be getting more prevalent. I guess companies have finally succeded in duping us.
As a private citizen, you cannot write something down on a piece of paper and make it become a law. Imagine how ludicrous things would be if that were the case. When you purchase something, it is yours. You can do whatever you want within the constraints of the law. Notice I said LAW, not whatever arbitrary rules the manufacturer thinks they can intimidate you into following. Those warnings/agreements are just a bold face attempt to bulldog the consumer with no legal backing. It would be very bizarre if they held up in court, but you will never see them tested since they are only there for intimidation purposes anyway.
Are you purposely misunderstanding what I am saying? Let's try to put the fanboyism aside for a moment. The two "exclusive" titles that I mentioned for the Xbox are not really exclusives. I play both of them on my PC. That is why I do not own an Xbox right now. I also really like Gran Turismo 3. I bought a PS2 to play it. I do not have the option of playing that game on anything other than a PS2. Also, I'm not talking about the Xbox having many "really great" games. That may or may not be true. My comment was specifically about the very high profile games that lead people to purchase a specific console. The Xbox does not really have any right now. Ninja Gaiden is getting a lot of press but it is nowhere near the level of a GTA3 or Metroid Prime.
Also, that long list of games you just mentioned are not all must-haves at all. They are just run of the mill games. As a non Xbox owner, I have heard nothing about those games. I am not going to buy an Xbox for the chance to play them.
What I mean by must-have title is something like GTA3 or Final Fantasy. Whether or not you like those kinds of games, they are very popular and drive people to buy a PS2. Similarly, Metroid Prime and Zelda:WW are two GC games that probably drive people to buy a Gamecube. The Xbox just doesn't really have any of those kinds of titles. Halo was definitely one but it is getting pretty long in the tooth and has been released for the PC anyway. I think KOTOR would have been an excellent game to keep exclusive and draw people in. I was seriously considering buying an Xbox just for that reason and was not particularly interested in any other Xbox games. Luckily for me they decided to release it on the PC so I didn't have to shell out the $180.
The quality/crap ratio for the Xbox may be higher than the PS2 but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of crap titles. Also, aside from Halo and KOTOR there have been no really must-have titles for the Xbox and both of those games have now been released on the PC. MS really needs a few exceptionally strong exclusives (NOT released for the PC) to make owning an Xbox worthwhile.
But one of the things Microsoft excels at is adapting their products until they work.
That is because they have the cash to enter a market and do very poorly but still survive. Any other company (pretty much) would not have time to adapt their product while losing money.
For a long time I wanted tp play KOTOR. I pondered buying a $179 Xbox and then said "Naah, I'll wait for the price to go down". A few months ago I warezed KOTOR for my PC and just used the mouse. It cost me $0 and the graphics blew, period.
Seriously, I never played GTA3 on the PC but the PC ports of console games that I have played have sucked royally (NFS:U, LOTR:ROTK and of course KOTOR). I even spent $100 to buy a new video card so I could run the above mentioned games at a decent frame rate. I was pretty disappointed.
I think that will do more to destroy PC gaming than anything else. If I see another half-assed PC/Xbox/PS2/GC game I am going to puke. Rather than being an exceptional game on one platform, they are mediocre on all of them. I really enjoyed playing KOTOR but I think it could have been a much better game if developed solely for the PC. When I compare it to a game like Baldur's Gate 2, it is shallow and the controls are lame. The more PC game publishers that get lured over to the Xbox, the worse PC gaming is going to get.
Sorry to break it to you, buddy, but MS Office compatibility is not a "basic funcionality". It is a requirement born of Microsoft's monopoly. If MS were to release the Word document specs then other people could write compatible files. As it is, there are plenty of other options (i.e. pdf and rtf) and as soon as MS loses an appreciable amount of market share to any other text editor, it will be a moot point. As consumers we really need to demand an open standard. If we could ever get to that point, life would be much easier for all of us.
I think you are missing the point. The parent poster is pointing out that the production cost reduction has been no benefit to the consumer. The prices stay the same and, in his opinion, we are getting an inferior product.
The point is that many people do not have access to it and the reviewer is a good example of that. The email clients got reviewed because they were accessible, both to the reviewer and (most of) us.
I think what most people are reacting to is the perceived trend in the market. Nintendo has been on a down trend lately, despite remaining profitable, and Microsoft is on an up trend. Of course, MS started from ground zero, so they really had nowhere to go but up, but they have really done a good job with marketing. The Xbox has really grabbed a lot of mindshare as the "cool" console to own for Extreme d00dz despite not selling all that many units and not being anywhere near profitable. I am just really hoping that MS doesn't use it's endless coffers to run Nintendo out of business and then give up on the console market because they are not able to make it profitable.
consoles are still classified, in bits, by their graphics capability (read GPU)
No offense, dude, but if you believe that, you are just getting hooked by the marketing people.
As an owner of a PS2 and a Gamecube I can honestly say that the load times for the Gamecube are MUCH fatser than the PS2. That is the primary reason that I will buy a Gamecube game instead of the PS2 version. Some of the load times for PS2 games are absolutely insane (*cough* Jedi Starfighter *cough*).
There is also an ethernet adapter. It may be hard to find but it exists. I don't know about digital audio but I don't think there are many people that care about that anyway.
Slashdot Mirror
There is a space in that link that shouldn't be there.
Anyway, the NDS card thing is a very different issue than what we are discussing for a couple of reasons.
1. The people who are getting jacked over in these cases are getting sued. It is a civil matter and they are usually caving in without going to trial.
2. The reason people are settling rather than going to trial is that they are guilty of breaking the law (i.e. stealing satellite).
3. People who have been prosecuted criminally have been charged with stealing cable, not modifying hardware. They modified hardware to steal cable but that is not what they are prosecuted for.
4. There is a case for prosecuting someone for modifying hardware if they are renting it. You cannot rent something and screw around with it but if you own it, it is fair game. If the user is renting the equipment from the satellite company (which is common) modifying it is equivalent to vandalism.
Forgot to put the line breaks in.
There is a space in that link that shouldn't be there.
Anyway, the NDS card thing is a very different issue than what we are discussing for a couple of reasons.
1. The people who are getting jacked over in these cases are getting sued. It is a civil matter and they are usually caving in without going to trial. 2. The reason people are settling rather than going to trial is that they are guilty of breaking the law (i.e. stealing satellite). 3. People who have been prosecuted criminally have been charged with stealing cable, not modifying hardware. They modified hardware to steal cable but that is not what they are prosecuted for. 4. There is a case for prosecuting someone for modifying hardware if they are renting it. You cannot rent something and screw around with it but if you own it, it is fair game. If the user is renting the equipment from the satellite company (which is common) modifying it is equivalent to vandalism.
This is my third post on this subject but I am getting pretty exasperated with some of these responses. The fact of the matter is that in the U.S. it is most definitely NOT illegal to buy something in Japan and bring it to the U.S. You need to declare it to customs and might have to pay an import duty or something. You will not have a warranty in the U.S. but you are not breaking any laws by owning a Japanese GC and games. I think what has happened is that the propaganda has really gotten into the consumers head and many now believe that what some companies wish in their most fervent dreams were illegal is, in fact, ileegal. This is not true but if enough people, like the grandparent poster, believe it then it may as well be. Maybe I'm just being naive but I had no idea that people were so willing to bend over and take it from industry.
Explain to them the media is completely ruined and that it was a big chunk of change.Let them contemplate that...
Either you don't spend much time around kids or you spend time around some exceptionally mature ones. Keep in mind that we are talking about little people that pick their nose and eat it.
As I pointed out in another post, all the examples you gave are violations of the law. Violating an existing law is a completely tangental issue to violating an arbitrary set of regulations that a company would like to have on their product. As long as you are violating any law, you are fine. For example, you can legally mod your Xbox or PS2 all you want as long as you do not infringe on any copyrights (i.e. games or BIOS code).
Of course, you are right about warranties. For the most part, they are left to the discretion of the manufacturer (or retailer). The only irritating thing about the warranty warnings is that they are often written in a way that suggests that you would be breaking the law if you do something to violate the warranty. This is just consumer intimidation and it is getting a little bit tiresome.
This may be somewhat off-topic but have you ever noticed how some commercial software (i.e. from MS) will say "Do not make illegal copies of this software" on the CD? They don't want to say "Don't make any copies of this disk" because they would get taken to task over that. They just want to make the casual consumer think copy == illegal. Why else would they point out that you shouldn't do something illegal? I think most mentally competent adults understand that, by definition, they are not to do anything that is illegal.
I am not a lawyer but I play one on slashdot. Seriously, I usually avoid these legal discussions like the plague but the attitude that you have adopted seems to be getting more prevalent. I guess companies have finally succeded in duping us.
As a private citizen, you cannot write something down on a piece of paper and make it become a law. Imagine how ludicrous things would be if that were the case. When you purchase something, it is yours. You can do whatever you want within the constraints of the law. Notice I said LAW, not whatever arbitrary rules the manufacturer thinks they can intimidate you into following. Those warnings/agreements are just a bold face attempt to bulldog the consumer with no legal backing. It would be very bizarre if they held up in court, but you will never see them tested since they are only there for intimidation purposes anyway.
Are you purposely misunderstanding what I am saying? Let's try to put the fanboyism aside for a moment. The two "exclusive" titles that I mentioned for the Xbox are not really exclusives. I play both of them on my PC. That is why I do not own an Xbox right now. I also really like Gran Turismo 3. I bought a PS2 to play it. I do not have the option of playing that game on anything other than a PS2. Also, I'm not talking about the Xbox having many "really great" games. That may or may not be true. My comment was specifically about the very high profile games that lead people to purchase a specific console. The Xbox does not really have any right now. Ninja Gaiden is getting a lot of press but it is nowhere near the level of a GTA3 or Metroid Prime.
Also, that long list of games you just mentioned are not all must-haves at all. They are just run of the mill games. As a non Xbox owner, I have heard nothing about those games. I am not going to buy an Xbox for the chance to play them.
What I mean by must-have title is something like GTA3 or Final Fantasy. Whether or not you like those kinds of games, they are very popular and drive people to buy a PS2. Similarly, Metroid Prime and Zelda:WW are two GC games that probably drive people to buy a Gamecube. The Xbox just doesn't really have any of those kinds of titles. Halo was definitely one but it is getting pretty long in the tooth and has been released for the PC anyway. I think KOTOR would have been an excellent game to keep exclusive and draw people in. I was seriously considering buying an Xbox just for that reason and was not particularly interested in any other Xbox games. Luckily for me they decided to release it on the PC so I didn't have to shell out the $180.
The quality/crap ratio for the Xbox may be higher than the PS2 but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of crap titles. Also, aside from Halo and KOTOR there have been no really must-have titles for the Xbox and both of those games have now been released on the PC. MS really needs a few exceptionally strong exclusives (NOT released for the PC) to make owning an Xbox worthwhile.
But one of the things Microsoft excels at is adapting their products until they work.
That is because they have the cash to enter a market and do very poorly but still survive. Any other company (pretty much) would not have time to adapt their product while losing money.
For a long time I wanted tp play KOTOR. I pondered buying a $179 Xbox and then said "Naah, I'll wait for the price to go down". A few months ago I warezed KOTOR for my PC and just used the mouse. It cost me $0 and the graphics blew, period.
Seriously, I never played GTA3 on the PC but the PC ports of console games that I have played have sucked royally (NFS:U, LOTR:ROTK and of course KOTOR). I even spent $100 to buy a new video card so I could run the above mentioned games at a decent frame rate. I was pretty disappointed.
I think that will do more to destroy PC gaming than anything else. If I see another half-assed PC/Xbox/PS2/GC game I am going to puke. Rather than being an exceptional game on one platform, they are mediocre on all of them. I really enjoyed playing KOTOR but I think it could have been a much better game if developed solely for the PC. When I compare it to a game like Baldur's Gate 2, it is shallow and the controls are lame. The more PC game publishers that get lured over to the Xbox, the worse PC gaming is going to get.
Sorry to break it to you, buddy, but MS Office compatibility is not a "basic funcionality". It is a requirement born of Microsoft's monopoly. If MS were to release the Word document specs then other people could write compatible files. As it is, there are plenty of other options (i.e. pdf and rtf) and as soon as MS loses an appreciable amount of market share to any other text editor, it will be a moot point. As consumers we really need to demand an open standard. If we could ever get to that point, life would be much easier for all of us.
PC gamers who primarily use Mac
Yeah man. Those PC gamers that use Macs really have their heads in the sand.
The Cube (is) big endian vs. little endian
Better get used to it buddy.
I think you are missing the point. The parent poster is pointing out that the production cost reduction has been no benefit to the consumer. The prices stay the same and, in his opinion, we are getting an inferior product.
There is a point at which caffeine becomes toxic. You must have had an enormous amount of coffee to reach that point, though.
So don't drink coffee at night. Drink it in the morning through afternoon.
The point is that many people do not have access to it and the reviewer is a good example of that. The email clients got reviewed because they were accessible, both to the reviewer and (most of) us.
But with all the chaos going on right now with their lawsuit, would it even be noticed?
yes.
With the exception of freeBSD the operating systems that you mentioned are non-free. That was the parent posters point.
I think what most people are reacting to is the perceived trend in the market. Nintendo has been on a down trend lately, despite remaining profitable, and Microsoft is on an up trend. Of course, MS started from ground zero, so they really had nowhere to go but up, but they have really done a good job with marketing. The Xbox has really grabbed a lot of mindshare as the "cool" console to own for Extreme d00dz despite not selling all that many units and not being anywhere near profitable. I am just really hoping that MS doesn't use it's endless coffers to run Nintendo out of business and then give up on the console market because they are not able to make it profitable.
consoles are still classified, in bits, by their graphics capability (read GPU)
No offense, dude, but if you believe that, you are just getting hooked by the marketing people.
As an owner of a PS2 and a Gamecube I can honestly say that the load times for the Gamecube are MUCH fatser than the PS2. That is the primary reason that I will buy a Gamecube game instead of the PS2 version. Some of the load times for PS2 games are absolutely insane (*cough* Jedi Starfighter *cough*).
There is also an ethernet adapter. It may be hard to find but it exists. I don't know about digital audio but I don't think there are many people that care about that anyway.