Isn't that what this is all about? The noobs don't know how to swim, but they are hell bent on jumping into the deep end.
I have moderated some large message boards, by way of an analogy. They always start off with a small group of people that get comfortable with the tone of voice, the technology involved, and they then set the trend for that one site. If the tone is right (i.e., inviting) tons of people start showing up. If you build it, they will come and all that. You'd think that would be a good thing, but it invariably leads to becoming "a victim of your own success".
You get people that have no idea what have gone on before, but show up and start demanding to be heard. Major soap box time. And God help 'em if they don't get taken seriously, or get criticized because they are reinventing the wheel or any of a number of other things.
This dovetails nicely with the/. article asking questions for Mike Godwin about legal issues on the web. Let's face it, and check me here, but stupid is still free as best I know. Sadly, it is the best some can afford.
Is there a crackdown on surfing habits in the future? Maybe. On the whole, it probably wouldn't be a bad thing since most issues would be related to security type items (antivirus requirements, firewalling, OS patches, etc) as has been noted. Would things like this impact the "old timers"? Probably not, and the noobs wouldn't even know the difference anyway.
Remember, the question wasn't about freedom of speech, copyright issues, IP, etc., but the propagation of crap.
Broadband connection, analog connection, it doesn't matter. The abuses are the same (read "deranged indifference" as abuses). It's like the Austin Powers movie where the guy gets run over by a steam roller. The end result is the same, it just takes a lot longer than getting hit by a Porsche. The outcome is inevitable, in my mind. It is just a matter of how quickly we get there.
I wouldn't worry if I was an active duty member. After all, something recent is easier to trace. Not saying it couldn't happen by any stretch. But consider the following:
I WOULD sweat if I was retired or ETS'ed. If I was an unscrupulous DoD civilian sitting on top of tens of thousands of "retired" military records, I could snag info at my leisure. Name, DOB, SSN, place of birth, mothers maiden name (a biggie, too), etc.
Someone could screw with credit, apply for loans, mess with VA benefits, even potentially change life insurance information all in your name.
I served 8 years. Been out 12. Until you brought this up, identity theft from that angle NEVER would have occurred to me.
Did anyone check the name of the company that located the virus? Vogon International, LTD.
I suspect the Prostetnic Vogon Geltz.
Re:The problem is people take jobs just for the mo
on
Working Hard?
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· Score: 1
Sounds like a bunch of crap to me.
I am, of course, thrilled freaking spitless that you aren't motivated by money. You either have everything you need, or you are happy with pimiento cheese as one of the four primary food groups. And since you (obviously) have no kids, that isn't an issue for you.
Work the ideological plain, by all means. The rest of us will just sweat things out in reality.
Regardless of the amount per hour I charge, I do the job I love, and I provide value for the job I do. That would be true whether I was a grocery clerk or an SE (which I am).
If I do a job, whether it is setting up a firewall and site to site VPN or resetting a password, I do it with the same attention to detail. If I worked at Mickey D's flipping burgers, I would do the best I could as well. Why?
My work bears my signature. Even if it was something that I felt was "beneath me", I would give it my best effort. If for no other reason than to prove that I can do anything well that I set my mind to.
You are just another elitist slob that KNOWS that everything else in the world is beneath their time and effort. So you keep on thinking the same way. And when you get laid off some day, turn down unemployment benefits, too. After all, that is way beneath you. Unless, of course, everyone owes you a living. I am guessing you pretty much feel that way, anyways.
Yeah, just keep telling everyone else how to live their lives. Uh huh...
Yep, it sure was a Novell server. It was at the University of North Carolina.
A Netware server everyone had forgotten about. The danged thing got walled over in an office remake (physical office, not Microsoft Office). Being Netware, and that it still had power to it, it just kept running. What, no weekly reboot schedule?
To me, this is probably the smartest move that Novell could make. At this point, why try to make the most stable server platform (which honor seems to be taken by Linux). It is all about the networking services available. Novell has a pretty solid core NOS, but it is their vision of a unified network infrastructure, providing services regardless of platform, that sets them apart.
I am looking at going from 13 to 45 sites in a heterogenous network (Novell and W2K). There is ABSOULTELY NO WAY ADS is going to be a part of my network. NDS is more scalable, stable, and mature, and it offers my customer more features. I would go with straight Novell (or Linux), but some of the apps require MS. If I could go (today) with a solid, reliable Linux only solution, I would. Unfortunately, I can't.
A fantastic core NOS like Linux with a fantastic DS product like NDS is win-win for me and my customers.
Novell is offering itself as a networking specialist, not a network operating system specialist. They might just drive change after all. Microsoft hammers operability (from an 'engineer' and certification standpoint) and relies on popularity. After all, can 1,000,000 MCSE's be wrong?
Wow! Did you all hear that? It was the sound of a paradigm shifting without a clutch!
So what happens if they catch someone whose body language triggers the sensors, and then find he has something on him that could be used to hijack a plane? The airline and the US Government would be liable for damages to him.
By the time the US legal system got done with him, it would be proven that his civil rights were violated, he carried a weapon for protection from religious persecution, and that the use of the seat was unconstitutional search and seizure.
How about if the same passenger died of DVT sitting in one of those seats (with no weapons, of course)? Then that same airline would be sued for not detecting it and not preventing his death.
Which side of that coin (if either) is good for anyone other than the lawyers and plaintants?
I think the bigger issue is the "underlying layer of bureaucracy" part mentioned in the article.
I do a ton of work at state government level as a consultant. I could plop an open source solution into one of my customers (35 remote site WAN, multiple servers, etc) and save them a ton of money. It won't happen any time soon, though.
Consider:
An elected politician relies on the "institutional knowledge" of career bureaucrats. Fred gets elected, and checks with his department heads Bob and Sharon. They have each been there twenty years, and "know" how things work. Suggestions for major change dismissed. People like these know how to do the least amount possible to appear accomodating and lessen change in their organizations at the same time.
Even if you, as an elected official, want reform, maybe you put trusted people into key posts to oversee this. They STILL have to deal with Bob and Sharon, who have the key input into decisions. Face it, Bob and Sharon were there before you showed up, and they will be there LONG after you are gone. You lose again.
The inertia is incredible.
Oddly, with the additional spending and budget requirements incurred after 9/11, I am seeing more flexibility in considering alternatives. But it is still an uphill battle.
The worst part is the fact that the biggest savings would come from the desktop. However, at that point, you aren't just dealing with Bob and Sharon, but the 700 people that work for them. 700 people that have been there an average of 7 years each. That KNOW how to do what they NEED to do, but nothing else on a computer.
Try retraining THEM as a cost saving measure.
It has nothing, IMO, to do with the politics of the party in office, but it has everything to do with the politics of the people who do government for a living. Win THEM, and you have the key.
Funny, but we seem to have similar reservations and different views. I looked at it more from a personal use issue than a business use issue.
I run a lot of linux and Novell servers, but can't find anything that competes with Windows on the desktop. At home, I switched from Windows 98SE to Red Hat to Mandrake and back to Windows.
I just didn't like giving up so much in terms of compatibility and availability. Linux is close, but until it can hang in there with web apps and office apps, it won't be a prevalent desktop choice.
Let's face it, Windows is easy. Web sites work, apps are compatible, and games run. Do I admit that MS makes a superior OS? No, I don't. I switched to an all Linux environment about 8 months ago. As an OS, I think Linux is superior. Still, I am switching back.
With Linux, I never had to reboot, never managed to mess up the OS to the point of total kludge, Samba worked like a charm, E-Mail happened on time (well, KMail hung on occasion, but kill the process and restart and it rocked). I just never had the full range of motion with linux that I do with Windows.
As an application platform, Windows owns the day. Games, office apps, and web content are all easier with MS. The OS locks up, spyware, adware, and plain assed vaporware abound, but the stuff that should work does.
I hate Microsoft's corporate philosophy as much as I love the concept of open source. But lets face it, they have the clout at the moment. I finally came to the conclusion that I am not willing to give up all the functionality that Windows gives me for an ideal.
Linux is so, so close. One or two more iterations and MS will have to either lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way. Until that time comes, Novell or Linux on the server side, and Windows on the desktop.
Sure, sloppy code and security holes are as bad as watered down drinks at a topless bar, but don't we get paid to stop crap like that from being perpetrated on our networks? Microsoft makes me look like a hero as far as security goes.
Yes, Mr. Customer, I did charge you quite a bit, but I have enclosed a listing of the bugs and security flaws that I patched while I was here. These are things you usually never know about until you get burned by them, but I feel I owe it to you to stay on top of them and help you stay current...
Who out there remembers MCA? IBM thought they could dominate the hardware arena by closing off their source technology and introducing some proprietary performance enhancements that would compel companies to buy strictly from them. This was back in the day when hardware would never catch up with software.
Here we are now, and IBM is the biggest backer of open source. Seems like they have a corporate memory, at least.
Software is going through the same growing pains that hardware has already gone through. And the proprietary hardware vendors are choking because open standards have caused huge price drops along with huge performance gains.
I'll be damned if I know where it will all end up, but the landscape 5 years from now will be a lot different than it is today.
I mean, after all, the need to produce is becoming more important than the need to produce quality. Sure, it is like cheating at solitaire, but what are the incentives NOT to cheat?
The guy got screwed, but his work pretty much stands on it's own, so his legacy there is secure. I just hope that they do the story justice. I am really kind of looking forward to seeing the special effects, given the advancements we have been hearing about lately.
If nothing else, I advocate Brockian Ultra-Cricket at all staff meetings!
Nothing in my day to day routine has changed. I get up, go to work, come home, whatever. But my perceptions have changed, just like most people in the States. I am more aware of external criticism, of U.S. bashing, of the hundreds of billions of dollars we send abroad in aid to other countries, and our soldiers that serve (and die) as peace keepers.
I am also aware that these two things don't add up. People don't want the US to be the worlds policeman, but they bitch when we aren't (or not where they want us). People make remarks like "The US created the Al Qaeda because of their policies" while their countries are sucking at the US teat.
Then, after 9/11, when the US tries to find a way to reign in public infrastructures that are being used against it to murder our citizens, I hear international outrage. I hear about those poor International citizens in the Al Qaeda army being held in Guantanamo Bay not having trials yet. They are not being treated according to US principles. No chit, they aren't US citizens! They are combatants from a foreign Army.
9/11 wasn't a tragedy, it was an atrocity. It was murder on a grand scale. When I hear people take the tone of::shrug:: So what, worse has happened:: I wonder if worse has happened to them. Has worse happened in their country? Or perhaps their country has been one of those that perpetrated worse things in the past. Either way.
I will keep a close eye on personal freedoms guaranteed by the constitution, and complain out loud when I think they cross the line. Hey, the US Government is simply trying to defend the lives of it's citizens, which is what its responsibility.
I don't feel that the US should act as a maverick, nor do I think they will. Tomorrow (September 11, 2002) will be a day where I remember 3,000 souls murdered in a senseless act of cowardice that not a single one of them personally asked for. When I weigh, at this point in an on-going process of evaluation, my personal freedoms of today versus a year ago, I would say that I am comfortable with where I am at.
No, post 9/11 actions and policies haven't affected my daily routine. But my eyes sure have been opened.
Something like this, if it works, is awesome! To lose your sight, and then regain it? Just like the VISA commercial, priceless!
The use of interfacing devices to intercept neural signals from the brain is incredible! It has already been done (to an extent) aurally. Rush Limbaugh totally lost his hearing, yet benefitted from an implant (cochlear).
As to what it could be, and where it could go? Who cares? If I was on the receiving end, I sure wouldn't be paying too much attention to the options!
I would just be looking at my family and being thankful for the chance to do it!
Slashdot Mirror
Isn't that what this is all about? The noobs don't know how to swim, but they are hell bent on jumping into the deep end.
/. article asking questions for Mike Godwin about legal issues on the web. Let's face it, and check me here, but stupid is still free as best I know. Sadly, it is the best some can afford.
I have moderated some large message boards, by way of an analogy. They always start off with a small group of people that get comfortable with the tone of voice, the technology involved, and they then set the trend for that one site. If the tone is right (i.e., inviting) tons of people start showing up. If you build it, they will come and all that. You'd think that would be a good thing, but it invariably leads to becoming "a victim of your own success".
You get people that have no idea what have gone on before, but show up and start demanding to be heard. Major soap box time. And God help 'em if they don't get taken seriously, or get criticized because they are reinventing the wheel or any of a number of other things.
This dovetails nicely with the
Is there a crackdown on surfing habits in the future? Maybe. On the whole, it probably wouldn't be a bad thing since most issues would be related to security type items (antivirus requirements, firewalling, OS patches, etc) as has been noted. Would things like this impact the "old timers"? Probably not, and the noobs wouldn't even know the difference anyway.
Remember, the question wasn't about freedom of speech, copyright issues, IP, etc., but the propagation of crap.
Broadband connection, analog connection, it doesn't matter. The abuses are the same (read "deranged indifference" as abuses). It's like the Austin Powers movie where the guy gets run over by a steam roller. The end result is the same, it just takes a lot longer than getting hit by a Porsche. The outcome is inevitable, in my mind. It is just a matter of how quickly we get there.
I wouldn't worry if I was an active duty member. After all, something recent is easier to trace. Not saying it couldn't happen by any stretch. But consider the following:
I WOULD sweat if I was retired or ETS'ed. If I was an unscrupulous DoD civilian sitting on top of tens of thousands of "retired" military records, I could snag info at my leisure. Name, DOB, SSN, place of birth, mothers maiden name (a biggie, too), etc.
Someone could screw with credit, apply for loans, mess with VA benefits, even potentially change life insurance information all in your name.
I served 8 years. Been out 12. Until you brought this up, identity theft from that angle NEVER would have occurred to me.
Scary stuff...
Did anyone check the name of the company that located the virus? Vogon International, LTD.
I suspect the Prostetnic Vogon Geltz.
Sounds like a bunch of crap to me.
I am, of course, thrilled freaking spitless that you aren't motivated by money. You either have everything you need, or you are happy with pimiento cheese as one of the four primary food groups. And since you (obviously) have no kids, that isn't an issue for you.
Work the ideological plain, by all means. The rest of us will just sweat things out in reality.
Regardless of the amount per hour I charge, I do the job I love, and I provide value for the job I do. That would be true whether I was a grocery clerk or an SE (which I am).
If I do a job, whether it is setting up a firewall and site to site VPN or resetting a password, I do it with the same attention to detail. If I worked at Mickey D's flipping burgers, I would do the best I could as well. Why?
My work bears my signature. Even if it was something that I felt was "beneath me", I would give it my best effort. If for no other reason than to prove that I can do anything well that I set my mind to.
You are just another elitist slob that KNOWS that everything else in the world is beneath their time and effort. So you keep on thinking the same way. And when you get laid off some day, turn down unemployment benefits, too. After all, that is way beneath you. Unless, of course, everyone owes you a living. I am guessing you pretty much feel that way, anyways.
Yeah, just keep telling everyone else how to live their lives. Uh huh...
Yep, it sure was a Novell server. It was at the University of North Carolina.
A Netware server everyone had forgotten about. The danged thing got walled over in an office remake (physical office, not Microsoft Office). Being Netware, and that it still had power to it, it just kept running. What, no weekly reboot schedule?
To me, this is probably the smartest move that Novell could make. At this point, why try to make the most stable server platform (which honor seems to be taken by Linux). It is all about the networking services available. Novell has a pretty solid core NOS, but it is their vision of a unified network infrastructure, providing services regardless of platform, that sets them apart.
I am looking at going from 13 to 45 sites in a heterogenous network (Novell and W2K). There is ABSOULTELY NO WAY ADS is going to be a part of my network. NDS is more scalable, stable, and mature, and it offers my customer more features. I would go with straight Novell (or Linux), but some of the apps require MS. If I could go (today) with a solid, reliable Linux only solution, I would. Unfortunately, I can't.
A fantastic core NOS like Linux with a fantastic DS product like NDS is win-win for me and my customers.
Novell is offering itself as a networking specialist, not a network operating system specialist. They might just drive change after all. Microsoft hammers operability (from an 'engineer' and certification standpoint) and relies on popularity. After all, can 1,000,000 MCSE's be wrong?
Wow! Did you all hear that? It was the sound of a paradigm shifting without a clutch!
So what happens if they catch someone whose body language triggers the sensors, and then find he has something on him that could be used to hijack a plane? The airline and the US Government would be liable for damages to him.
By the time the US legal system got done with him, it would be proven that his civil rights were violated, he carried a weapon for protection from religious persecution, and that the use of the seat was unconstitutional search and seizure.
How about if the same passenger died of DVT sitting in one of those seats (with no weapons, of course)? Then that same airline would be sued for not detecting it and not preventing his death.
Which side of that coin (if either) is good for anyone other than the lawyers and plaintants?
Man, I am getting cynical!
I think the bigger issue is the "underlying layer of bureaucracy" part mentioned in the article.
I do a ton of work at state government level as a consultant. I could plop an open source solution into one of my customers (35 remote site WAN, multiple servers, etc) and save them a ton of money. It won't happen any time soon, though.
Consider:
An elected politician relies on the "institutional knowledge" of career bureaucrats. Fred gets elected, and checks with his department heads Bob and Sharon. They have each been there twenty years, and "know" how things work. Suggestions for major change dismissed. People like these know how to do the least amount possible to appear accomodating and lessen change in their organizations at the same time.
Even if you, as an elected official, want reform, maybe you put trusted people into key posts to oversee this. They STILL have to deal with Bob and Sharon, who have the key input into decisions. Face it, Bob and Sharon were there before you showed up, and they will be there LONG after you are gone. You lose again.
The inertia is incredible.
Oddly, with the additional spending and budget requirements incurred after 9/11, I am seeing more flexibility in considering alternatives. But it is still an uphill battle.
The worst part is the fact that the biggest savings would come from the desktop. However, at that point, you aren't just dealing with Bob and Sharon, but the 700 people that work for them. 700 people that have been there an average of 7 years each. That KNOW how to do what they NEED to do, but nothing else on a computer.
Try retraining THEM as a cost saving measure.
It has nothing, IMO, to do with the politics of the party in office, but it has everything to do with the politics of the people who do government for a living. Win THEM, and you have the key.
This would work out great for me, as anything I tried to fly would end up in the damned water anyway.
Funny, but we seem to have similar reservations and different views. I looked at it more from a personal use issue than a business use issue.
I run a lot of linux and Novell servers, but can't find anything that competes with Windows on the desktop. At home, I switched from Windows 98SE to Red Hat to Mandrake and back to Windows.
I just didn't like giving up so much in terms of compatibility and availability. Linux is close, but until it can hang in there with web apps and office apps, it won't be a prevalent desktop choice.
Let's face it, Windows is easy. Web sites work, apps are compatible, and games run. Do I admit that MS makes a superior OS? No, I don't. I switched to an all Linux environment about 8 months ago. As an OS, I think Linux is superior. Still, I am switching back.
With Linux, I never had to reboot, never managed to mess up the OS to the point of total kludge, Samba worked like a charm, E-Mail happened on time (well, KMail hung on occasion, but kill the process and restart and it rocked). I just never had the full range of motion with linux that I do with Windows.
As an application platform, Windows owns the day. Games, office apps, and web content are all easier with MS. The OS locks up, spyware, adware, and plain assed vaporware abound, but the stuff that should work does.
I hate Microsoft's corporate philosophy as much as I love the concept of open source. But lets face it, they have the clout at the moment. I finally came to the conclusion that I am not willing to give up all the functionality that Windows gives me for an ideal.
Linux is so, so close. One or two more iterations and MS will have to either lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way. Until that time comes, Novell or Linux on the server side, and Windows on the desktop.
Sure, sloppy code and security holes are as bad as watered down drinks at a topless bar, but don't we get paid to stop crap like that from being perpetrated on our networks? Microsoft makes me look like a hero as far as security goes.
Yes, Mr. Customer, I did charge you quite a bit, but I have enclosed a listing of the bugs and security flaws that I patched while I was here. These are things you usually never know about until you get burned by them, but I feel I owe it to you to stay on top of them and help you stay current...
Microsoft+Bugs+Patches=Value added for me
Keep up the good work, Bill!
Although I would enjoy it more if it were along the lines of Blade Runner!
Yeah, thanks for the GEOS reference! As if I wasn't feeling old enough already!
Who out there remembers MCA? IBM thought they could dominate the hardware arena by closing off their source technology and introducing some proprietary performance enhancements that would compel companies to buy strictly from them. This was back in the day when hardware would never catch up with software.
Here we are now, and IBM is the biggest backer of open source. Seems like they have a corporate memory, at least.
Software is going through the same growing pains that hardware has already gone through. And the proprietary hardware vendors are choking because open standards have caused huge price drops along with huge performance gains.
I'll be damned if I know where it will all end up, but the landscape 5 years from now will be a lot different than it is today.
Isn't it ironic that these two, umm, articles, hit the same night?
I mean, after all, the need to produce is becoming more important than the need to produce quality. Sure, it is like cheating at solitaire, but what are the incentives NOT to cheat?
Screwed, blued, and tattoed? This seems to give it a new meaning!
The guy got screwed, but his work pretty much stands on it's own, so his legacy there is secure. I just hope that they do the story justice. I am really kind of looking forward to seeing the special effects, given the advancements we have been hearing about lately.
If nothing else, I advocate Brockian Ultra-Cricket at all staff meetings!
I can see Deniro as Wally....
I gracefully accept the correction of an anonymous coward. The sentiment of my original post remains.
Nothing in my day to day routine has changed. I get up, go to work, come home, whatever. But my perceptions have changed, just like most people in the States. I am more aware of external criticism, of U.S. bashing, of the hundreds of billions of dollars we send abroad in aid to other countries, and our soldiers that serve (and die) as peace keepers.
::shrug:: So what, worse has happened :: I wonder if worse has happened to them. Has worse happened in their country? Or perhaps their country has been one of those that perpetrated worse things in the past. Either way.
I am also aware that these two things don't add up. People don't want the US to be the worlds policeman, but they bitch when we aren't (or not where they want us). People make remarks like "The US created the Al Qaeda because of their policies" while their countries are sucking at the US teat.
Then, after 9/11, when the US tries to find a way to reign in public infrastructures that are being used against it to murder our citizens, I hear international outrage. I hear about those poor International citizens in the Al Qaeda army being held in Guantanamo Bay not having trials yet. They are not being treated according to US principles. No chit, they aren't US citizens! They are combatants from a foreign Army.
9/11 wasn't a tragedy, it was an atrocity. It was murder on a grand scale. When I hear people take the tone of
I will keep a close eye on personal freedoms guaranteed by the constitution, and complain out loud when I think they cross the line. Hey, the US Government is simply trying to defend the lives of it's citizens, which is what its responsibility.
I don't feel that the US should act as a maverick, nor do I think they will. Tomorrow (September 11, 2002) will be a day where I remember 3,000 souls murdered in a senseless act of cowardice that not a single one of them personally asked for. When I weigh, at this point in an on-going process of evaluation, my personal freedoms of today versus a year ago, I would say that I am comfortable with where I am at.
No, post 9/11 actions and policies haven't affected my daily routine. But my eyes sure have been opened.
If I found out that I was so damned boring that just listening to myself think would put me to sleep!
And your reply, is...Priceless!
Something like this, if it works, is awesome! To lose your sight, and then regain it? Just like the VISA commercial, priceless!
The use of interfacing devices to intercept neural signals from the brain is incredible! It has already been done (to an extent) aurally. Rush Limbaugh totally lost his hearing, yet benefitted from an implant (cochlear).
As to what it could be, and where it could go? Who cares? If I was on the receiving end, I sure wouldn't be paying too much attention to the options!
I would just be looking at my family and being thankful for the chance to do it!
Kind of makes ya wonder if they will...