If you are in charge of powerplats, maybe some dedicated fiber in the ground, if communication is that important for you, wouldn't be a luxery.
...or on the power poles, which already run to your plant, and have a very high likelihood of going to a substation and other transmission plants, and eventually to your office, since you probably have power. And since you already are pulling lines, just pull the fiber with it. And since you are pulling fiber, why not over-provision with some bundles in case you need it (labor cost is way more than the materials when laying new lines). And what to do with all this extra bandwidth? Sell it to your customers for internet access for more Profit!! See Dalton Utilities for an example. They started doing it back in the early 90s just for their SCADA type stuff, then expanded capacity/upgraded and turned it into FTTH as well. The SCADA is probably (hopefully) separated on its own internal network/vlan/separate fibers/bundles, but who knows.
If a man can be publicly accused of rape, a warrant issued for his arrest, and his name splashed all over the international media PRIOR to you being 100% sure you want to bring him in on those charges, then I would say something is seriously wrong with your system of justice and media.
ftfy
Its the media that will take the allegation and hype it and spin it into a story to attract as many viewers as possible to up their audience so they can get more advertising and sponsors. You think they give a rat's ass about the poor guy they do it to? To make it worse, the legal system makes it extremely difficult to go back after them for doing it too. The one case I know that was successful in this matter (and formed some case law in the matter) was the 1996 Olympic Park bombing. The AJC and other news orgs kept going after the security guy (Richard Jewell) that was eventually cleared of everything except doing his job protecting and saving the lives of many many people at the scene, and he sued them for libel, settling most cases. Had this been a rape case instead, he would probably have been convicted and locked away for life.
there is also the issue of cold climates, as under those conditions the piston needs to be heated (usually electrically) so to get the diesel mix to ignite at all. Luckily, modern engines do so automatically as part of the ignition sequence, tho earlier one had to turn it on manually (and if forgotten, i suspect it could drain the battery).
More of a concern in cold places is the fuel gelling up in the tank and not even making it to the engine. Block heaters (gotta plug it in overnight) and such keep the whole block warm so the fuel in the lines doesnt gel and fuel additives and even tank and line heaters/wrap help keep things fluid.
Essentially, with current engine design, the _only_ disadvantage to diesels is their weight. That and their performance characteristics - you don't get high reving fun diesels.
Audi Would like to object about not having 'Fun" with diesel...
Diesel just outputs higher torque at a slower rate, and requires heavier parts to accomodate it (200bar per cylinder instead of 85). A well designed engine and more importantly a transmission designed for it could make a diesel perform the same or better than gas, with added benefit of better gas mileage due to its higher energy density.
It'd be nuts to "free" dive in caves, without a rope or some other guide back.
Agreed, though people do it. To me (a caver) cave diving itself is done by Nuts.
For these extreme dives you'd think they'd also work their way down with spare air tanks so they never had to worry about going all the way back up to the top, just back to the last air tank drop.
They have dive plans, know how far they can go for what they have in the tank, and have emergency tanks stashed along the way. Since this expedition used rebreathers, any extra tank on a dive would be only for emergency use. SCUBA rules themselves still apply, so without special gas mixtures you cant go too deep, and without extra long decompression staging you cant stay below 33' for too long of a time.
I also wonder if they couldn't engineer some kind of capsule that could be inflated in a larger chamber to serve as a base on longer dives, possibly with an air line from the surface, sort of a base camp.
Good luck finding room for that anywhere in a cave. Knowing a guy that was on the J2 expedition as a packmule to haul the rebreather equipment down to the sumps, its hard enough getting just the essentials down to the dive site, even disassembled as much as possible. Even if you did get it down there, where would you set it up? For it to be any use it would need its own air supply (more tanks), power source, a dry floor and room to remove dive gear, lay down and rest.
Regardless, you gotta really not have even a hint of claustrophobia. I usually enjoy cave tours, mine tours and that sort of underground thing but the idea of diving in a cave makes me sick to my stomach nervous.
In caving, the claustrophobia usually only kicks in if you are doing really tight pushes into unknown body-sized passages. Caves made mostly of those kinds of passage are generally reserved for the sadistic cavers that like that kind of torture. Most caves contain a good bit of walking or crawling passage with decent sided rooms at places, with enough room to easily turn around or pass someone else.
Seriously? Calm down. They aren't monitoring the communication of private citizens, they are monitoring incoming connections on critical infrastructure systems.
Besides, monitoring the communication of private citizens happened a while ago under a happy little thing called the Patriot Act.::flamesuit::
FTFA:
A U.S. military official called the program long overdue and said any intrusion into privacy is no greater than what the public already endures from traffic cameras. It's a logical extension of the work federal agencies have done in the past to protect physical attacks on critical infrastructure that could sabotage the government or key parts of the country, the official said.
They basically come out and directly say they are taking advantage of a slippery slope and happily sliding down it. So monitoring people driving is the same as watching what they are doing online.... yeh, thats not a slippery-slope argument at all </sarcasm> Next is, well, we already monitor the critical infrastructure, why not just all corporations, why not just all ISPs and all home users, then we could really catch all those sleepercell terrrrists at home!! yeh1!! its just like red-light cameras.
A U.S. military official called the program long overdue and said any intrusion into privacy is no greater than what the public already endures from traffic cameras. It's a logical extension of the work federal agencies have done in the past to protect physical attacks on critical infrastructure that could sabotage the government or key parts of the country, the official said.
"You already gave up privacy for traffic cameras, so we can watch you drive, now we want to see what kinds of pr0n you like, cause thats no different and no big deal and its to stop the terrrrrists from doing another 9-11." This is exactly why privacy advocates are so rabid about what seems to be little things. They add up quick, and eventually get used as a "well we already do X, so this should be fine".
What they just described sounds like this device I heard of called a "fire wall". It can be set to alert you when bad people try to "hack" into your internets or do cyber war and will block the hackors from infecting you with computer viruses.
.. seriously, are we that far behind in our critical infrastructure that its still just plopped down on the internet without a firewall, filtering, port blocking, like some infected win95 machine from the 90s? Stuff like that should not be on the internet directly, ever. Private networks only, connected only to systems that need to monitor/control. Sure its faster/cheaper to plop a dsl line to that remote site, but its far less expensive to just get a direct private line to it than it would be to implement any of this other security theater the govment likes to use. Imagine your corporate firewall being run by the NSA....Hah
The Atom is a ridiculous car. I'd actually like to see a drag race between it and the Tesla Roadster.
Check out the Wrightspeed version (Wrightspeed X1). Basically a tesla-like powerplant in the atom frame... The thing flew by me while I was on a bike ride headed up Kings Mtn in Woodside a while back, had no idea what it was (other than extremely fast and quiet, and a 180MPGE license tag)
Yeh, and how did that go? Cell phones were going to centralize around mini-usb, a bunch did, but to retain the market in power supplies, and to keep their customers aggravated and maintain their image as sadistic bastards, there are still plenty being made with proprietary connectors. Even Blackberry has decided it missed its power supply revenue, switching (for no reason) to micro usb instead of mini usb, forcing existing BB owners that upgraded to newer phones to get yet another type of USB cable, and more new and different supplies that look almost the same as the old ones but dont fit. Sure, there are adapters, but most only work for charging, not actual USB, and most are sold by the shady cell-phone vendors, the ones that will sell you the adapter for $0.50, but charge $10 S/H for something you could stick in an envelope and send first-class mail.
Anyway, back on topic, even if they standardize, it wont last long. One brand will see an opportunity to get more $$ and slightly change the plug so only their brand will fit, keeping everything else in the supply the same (think Dell power supplies for desktops). Vendor lock-in is an old practice, and wont go away, even if they say it might.
Myst, Riven (that whole series), Samarost, FF.. there are a bunch of games where the environment presented is a majority of the experience. Even Zork is a work of art, much like any literary piece (until you get eaten by a grue).
They probably didnt know any better and thought it was the real thing. It seems playing the stupid card is the way to go in the US to get hand holding and settlements, never mind that it also creates a nanny state of over regulated everything as the gvmnt tries to babby proof the world.
Why this is being given such legal scrutiny. Its akin to driving down the street with a tape recorder and parabolic mic, recording whatever conversations people might be having as part of a population density study, and accidentally recording someone in their front yard yelling their cc# into the phone. It should fall under general privacy law: if you dont spend the time/energy to setup encryption of some form, dont expect privacy (same as if you dont try to block peeping toms, or if you go sunbathing nude in your front yard next to the street, dont be surprised to find yourself posted to/b). Even windows warns you now if you try to connect to an unencrypted AP. If anyone should be sued for this, sue the manufacturers that distributed the APs with a default configuration of no encryption and see how well that flies.
eh, northeast florida (there are more sides of florida that have beach, go look at a map) is on the atlantic, and is probably 1/4 of the total coast of florida, since the south, west and north-west sides are in the Caribbean/gulf. However, Id say from experience the gulf coast was typically less muddy and more white sand than its atlantic counterpart (which is really southern Georgia, and lots of mud from the Savannah, Altamaha and St Marys rivers) until you got down around Daytona and the cape.This ad is probably the north-east Fl towns trying to grab more vacationers by reminding them theres little chance of oil hitting their beaches as compared to the gulf side of the state.
When you had to virus-scan your freshly un-shrinkwrapped box of floppy disks because they came formatted with worms/virii in the bootsector/mbr... surprised it hasnt happened earlier with the boom of usb thumbdrives out there.
The jury was asked, "Did the amended Asset Purchase Agreement transfer the Unix and UnixWare copyrights from Novell to SCO?" It answered, "No,"...
SCO contends the jury could have meant various things by its verdict that do not preclude Stewart from ordering the transfer.
What part of "No" do you not understand?
Obviously they took it in a "No means yes, and yes means anal" kinda way.
They were really hoping for a yes...
And example results, see the Scanner Photography Project This was also/.'d a while back (looks like the site linked to in that/. article is now domain squatted)
Hmm... Then why are companies like Iron Mountain building out LARGE datacenters in caves?
(In most cases, former mines/quarries.)
1) Not caves large enough to drive vehicles in - many mines meet this criteria
Those are mines or tunnels, not caves. If they insist on calling it a cave, they should specify "man made" cave or risk getting the NSS, ACC, USGS, USFWS and a few other organizations on their ass
...
3) Not if they're above the water table - many are. Iron Mountain's is, and apparently they're planning on using a nearby underground lake for cooling soon.
Natural caves are typically formed by running water, they are nature's storm drains. You dont have to be below a water table for rainwater to fill a cave, mine or other hole in the ground. Water follows gravity, which typically goes down, and since holes in the ground generally go down to stay underground, water tends to follow. If the exit isnt large enough, it will fill the hole. How do you think the underground lake formed? I hope they are going through the EPA and USGS and other orgs to get approval on using that lake, as its probably the source for well water for miles around, and could have consequences if not done correctly. Karst Pollution is serious business, and Illinois a notable karst region.
4) Not if built/designed correctly.
5) Iron Mountain and the like would prefer to disagree with you on that.
Obviously these are man made caves. Not naturally formed ones carved by water.
Then it should be called such, rather than just cave, as I stated. The word Cave by itself is defined as a NATURAL space formed by natural processes.
Pedantic, yes, but if you told a bunch of geologists you are going to run a datacenter in a cave you would get a bunch of strange looks from them if you didnt say "man made" first.
5. and they ARE cool... until you put a bunch of servers in them, and then they heat up, and STAY hot, and are harder to cool than on the surface
the idea of servers in caves sucks
4 is questionable, most caves have good air flow (depends on your local though). Thermal and pressure differences between entrances create it (thermometric or barometric flows)
Other reasons not to put this type of things in caves:
* Caves are protected environments in most states
* Caves are commonly roosts for bats, which are having a hard enough time with WNS right now, let alone people intent on killing them
* Caves typically do not follow city planning, they go where they want to, following seams and faults in the rock
* Along with the flooding, they tend to have very high humidity (though there are dry caves too)
Im thinking these are more like mine tunnels or something..
Slashdot Mirror
Maybe they could get some stasis fields for them too...
niven should be proud
-T
A seperate network.
Is it really that hard to seperate 2 networks ?
If you are in charge of powerplats, maybe some dedicated fiber in the ground, if communication is that important for you, wouldn't be a luxery.
...or on the power poles, which already run to your plant, and have a very high likelihood of going to a substation and other transmission plants, and eventually to your office, since you probably have power. And since you already are pulling lines, just pull the fiber with it. And since you are pulling fiber, why not over-provision with some bundles in case you need it (labor cost is way more than the materials when laying new lines). And what to do with all this extra bandwidth? Sell it to your customers for internet access for more Profit!! See Dalton Utilities for an example. They started doing it back in the early 90s just for their SCADA type stuff, then expanded capacity/upgraded and turned it into FTTH as well. The SCADA is probably (hopefully) separated on its own internal network/vlan/separate fibers/bundles, but who knows.
Tm
If a man can be publicly accused of rape, a warrant issued for his arrest, and his name splashed all over the international media PRIOR to you being 100% sure you want to bring him in on those charges, then I would say something is seriously wrong with your system of justice and media.
ftfy
Its the media that will take the allegation and hype it and spin it into a story to attract as many viewers as possible to up their audience so they can get more advertising and sponsors. You think they give a rat's ass about the poor guy they do it to? To make it worse, the legal system makes it extremely difficult to go back after them for doing it too. The one case I know that was successful in this matter (and formed some case law in the matter) was the 1996 Olympic Park bombing. The AJC and other news orgs kept going after the security guy (Richard Jewell) that was eventually cleared of everything except doing his job protecting and saving the lives of many many people at the scene, and he sued them for libel, settling most cases. Had this been a rape case instead, he would probably have been convicted and locked away for life.
Tm
there is also the issue of cold climates, as under those conditions the piston needs to be heated (usually electrically) so to get the diesel mix to ignite at all. Luckily, modern engines do so automatically as part of the ignition sequence, tho earlier one had to turn it on manually (and if forgotten, i suspect it could drain the battery).
More of a concern in cold places is the fuel gelling up in the tank and not even making it to the engine. Block heaters (gotta plug it in overnight) and such keep the whole block warm so the fuel in the lines doesnt gel and fuel additives and even tank and line heaters/wrap help keep things fluid.
Essentially, with current engine design, the _only_ disadvantage to diesels is their weight. That and their performance characteristics - you don't get high reving fun diesels.
Audi Would like to object about not having 'Fun" with diesel...
Diesel just outputs higher torque at a slower rate, and requires heavier parts to accomodate it (200bar per cylinder instead of 85). A well designed engine and more importantly a transmission designed for it could make a diesel perform the same or better than gas, with added benefit of better gas mileage due to its higher energy density.
-Tm
It'd be nuts to "free" dive in caves, without a rope or some other guide back.
Agreed, though people do it. To me (a caver) cave diving itself is done by Nuts.
For these extreme dives you'd think they'd also work their way down with spare air tanks so they never had to worry about going all the way back up to the top, just back to the last air tank drop.
They have dive plans, know how far they can go for what they have in the tank, and have emergency tanks stashed along the way. Since this expedition used rebreathers, any extra tank on a dive would be only for emergency use. SCUBA rules themselves still apply, so without special gas mixtures you cant go too deep, and without extra long decompression staging you cant stay below 33' for too long of a time.
I also wonder if they couldn't engineer some kind of capsule that could be inflated in a larger chamber to serve as a base on longer dives, possibly with an air line from the surface, sort of a base camp.
Good luck finding room for that anywhere in a cave. Knowing a guy that was on the J2 expedition as a packmule to haul the rebreather equipment down to the sumps, its hard enough getting just the essentials down to the dive site, even disassembled as much as possible. Even if you did get it down there, where would you set it up? For it to be any use it would need its own air supply (more tanks), power source, a dry floor and room to remove dive gear, lay down and rest.
Regardless, you gotta really not have even a hint of claustrophobia. I usually enjoy cave tours, mine tours and that sort of underground thing but the idea of diving in a cave makes me sick to my stomach nervous.
In caving, the claustrophobia usually only kicks in if you are doing really tight pushes into unknown body-sized passages. Caves made mostly of those kinds of passage are generally reserved for the sadistic cavers that like that kind of torture. Most caves contain a good bit of walking or crawling passage with decent sided rooms at places, with enough room to easily turn around or pass someone else.
Tm
Seriously? Calm down. They aren't monitoring the communication of private citizens, they are monitoring incoming connections on critical infrastructure systems.
Besides, monitoring the communication of private citizens happened a while ago under a happy little thing called the Patriot Act. ::flamesuit::
FTFA:
A U.S. military official called the program long overdue and said any intrusion into privacy is no greater than what the public already endures from traffic cameras. It's a logical extension of the work federal agencies have done in the past to protect physical attacks on critical infrastructure that could sabotage the government or key parts of the country, the official said.
They basically come out and directly say they are taking advantage of a slippery slope and happily sliding down it. So monitoring people driving is the same as watching what they are doing online.... yeh, thats not a slippery-slope argument at all </sarcasm> Next is, well, we already monitor the critical infrastructure, why not just all corporations, why not just all ISPs and all home users, then we could really catch all those sleepercell terrrrists at home!! yeh1!! its just like red-light cameras.
Tm
A U.S. military official called the program long overdue and said any intrusion into privacy is no greater than what the public already endures from traffic cameras. It's a logical extension of the work federal agencies have done in the past to protect physical attacks on critical infrastructure that could sabotage the government or key parts of the country, the official said.
"You already gave up privacy for traffic cameras, so we can watch you drive, now we want to see what kinds of pr0n you like, cause thats no different and no big deal and its to stop the terrrrrists from doing another 9-11." This is exactly why privacy advocates are so rabid about what seems to be little things. They add up quick, and eventually get used as a "well we already do X, so this should be fine".
Tm
.. seriously, are we that far behind in our critical infrastructure that its still just plopped down on the internet without a firewall, filtering, port blocking, like some infected win95 machine from the 90s? Stuff like that should not be on the internet directly, ever. Private networks only, connected only to systems that need to monitor/control. Sure its faster/cheaper to plop a dsl line to that remote site, but its far less expensive to just get a direct private line to it than it would be to implement any of this other security theater the govment likes to use. Imagine your corporate firewall being run by the NSA....Hah
Tm
The Atom is a ridiculous car. I'd actually like to see a drag race between it and the Tesla Roadster.
Check out the Wrightspeed version (Wrightspeed X1). Basically a tesla-like powerplant in the atom frame... The thing flew by me while I was on a bike ride headed up Kings Mtn in Woodside a while back, had no idea what it was (other than extremely fast and quiet, and a 180MPGE license tag)
Video linky (pops)
Search youtube for more, including a race against a NASCAR stock car, Lamborghini, and others.
Tm
Anyway, back on topic, even if they standardize, it wont last long. One brand will see an opportunity to get more $$ and slightly change the plug so only their brand will fit, keeping everything else in the supply the same (think Dell power supplies for desktops). Vendor lock-in is an old practice, and wont go away, even if they say it might.
Tm
-Tm
They probably didnt know any better and thought it was the real thing. It seems playing the stupid card is the way to go in the US to get hand holding and settlements, never mind that it also creates a nanny state of over regulated everything as the gvmnt tries to babby proof the world.
Tm
tm
There is room for legitimate disagreement over the definition of 'arms'.
I think this correctly sums it up: http://www.bustedtees.com/secondamendment
tm
The stock price of Alcoa will skyrocket as the national reserves of tinfoil plummets...
Tm
ornery ostrich
From the Article:
What part of "No" do you not understand?
Obviously they took it in a "No means yes, and yes means anal" kinda way.
They were really hoping for a yes...
Tm
... DIY guides online.
And example results, see the Scanner Photography Project /.'d a while back (looks like the site linked to in that /. article is now domain squatted)
This was also
Tho not necessarily with a deardorff
-Tm
Hmm... Then why are companies like Iron Mountain building out LARGE datacenters in caves?
(In most cases, former mines/quarries.)
1) Not caves large enough to drive vehicles in - many mines meet this criteria
Those are mines or tunnels, not caves. If they insist on calling it a cave, they should specify "man made" cave or risk getting the NSS, ACC, USGS, USFWS and a few other organizations on their ass
... 3) Not if they're above the water table - many are. Iron Mountain's is, and apparently they're planning on using a nearby underground lake for cooling soon.
Natural caves are typically formed by running water, they are nature's storm drains. You dont have to be below a water table for rainwater to fill a cave, mine or other hole in the ground. Water follows gravity, which typically goes down, and since holes in the ground generally go down to stay underground, water tends to follow. If the exit isnt large enough, it will fill the hole. How do you think the underground lake formed? I hope they are going through the EPA and USGS and other orgs to get approval on using that lake, as its probably the source for well water for miles around, and could have consequences if not done correctly. Karst Pollution is serious business, and Illinois a notable karst region.
4) Not if built/designed correctly. 5) Iron Mountain and the like would prefer to disagree with you on that.
Again, see response to item 1.
-Tm
nss#45759
Obviously these are man made caves. Not naturally formed ones carved by water.
Then it should be called such, rather than just cave, as I stated. The word Cave by itself is defined as a NATURAL space formed by natural processes.
Pedantic, yes, but if you told a bunch of geologists you are going to run a datacenter in a cave you would get a bunch of strange looks from them if you didnt say "man made" first.
-Tm
nss#45759
1. they are hard to get to
2. they are hard to get supplies to and build in
3. they flood
4. they have air quality issues
5. and they ARE cool... until you put a bunch of servers in them, and then they heat up, and STAY hot, and are harder to cool than on the surface
the idea of servers in caves sucks
4 is questionable, most caves have good air flow (depends on your local though). Thermal and pressure differences between entrances create it (thermometric or barometric flows)
Other reasons not to put this type of things in caves:
* Caves are protected environments in most states
* Caves are commonly roosts for bats, which are having a hard enough time with WNS right now, let alone people intent on killing them
* Caves typically do not follow city planning, they go where they want to, following seams and faults in the rock
* Along with the flooding, they tend to have very high humidity (though there are dry caves too)
Im thinking these are more like mine tunnels or something..
-T
-Tm