This is true if people have other opportunities. The problem with your scenario is that from the time they turn down being a contractor until the time that somebody comes along and offers a better deal, people will starve to death. But that's not really what's at issue here. People can be contractors (as you've chosen to be) or they can be employees. What they can't do is be employees who are treated as contractors to avoid employment laws. I'm not saying those laws are perfect, but we certain are better off than before employment laws existed, so I have a tough time with the idea of going back. Nobody is saying that you can't hire contractors. Just that you can't hire employees and call them contractors. Next California will maybe address running a taxi service and calling it car sharing, but don't hold your breath.
The govt shouldn't be in the "business" of defining employee or contractor is what I'm saying.
Let companies and potential workers be fully free to define the terms of employment. Let the govt stay 100% out of the way.
There should be no legal "employee" or "contractor" definition....just two parties negotiating the terms of business for a working relationship.
There are plenty of jobs out there, you just have to be willing to do what it takes or move to where the jobs ARE.
No one owes you the ideal job you want in the location you want for the money you want.
You need to do what it takes to get out there and work. And there is plenty of work out there.
If you made serious vocational errors growing up, that's your tough luck, and you need to start now to sacrifice and do whatever to try to make up for that. But we shouldn't hold everything in business to the lowest common denominator enforced by govt regulation.
The govt should have no place in the negotiation of working pay, etc. I see the govt making sure working conditions and all are safe, but as far as the relationship on what is paid, what is expected, hours, etc...that should be between the employer and the employee (generically speaking). Frankly everyone should be "contractors"...voting with your feet where you want to work, who offers you the best deal, etc.
Get the State and Feds out of the middle of that relationship.
That argument works when there's jobs available. But the number of people looking for work (unemployed or underemployed) has been holding steady for years, and it's a big number.
There are PLENTY of jobs out there.
You just might have to learn to be flexible in what you are willing to do. Maybe get out and retrain yourself while you are on unemployment...maybe you need to move to where the damned jobs ARE.
You don't have the "right" to the exact job you want where you want it...life doesn't work that way and cater to you. There are jobs to be had if you're at all willing to do what it takes to get them or get to them.
I'll stop you right there. You can't have a contract if the terms are illegal, so it's not up to the individual at all. If Uber wants to have the state enforce their agreements with their drivers, they need to follow state laws.
I agree with you.
The company and person should follow the laws.
I'm saying the laws are wrong and shouldn't exist to hinder free will of those wanting to work or hire folks to work for them.
I'm saying the State (and federal) laws should NOT force a company or a person to not be able to agree on what form of working relationship they have (W2 or 1099), nor should it have a law saying these two parties are not 100% able to negotiate the fees between worker and employee/contractor.
We're supposed to be adults here, why can we not as adults choose to work for company A for $x...negotiated by the two parties. The state should not have laws the hinder the freedom of employer and employed.
Of course they have a gun held to their head. It's called hunger. It's called being able to pay the rent.
And..there are PLENTY of other jobs out there that don't have UBER in the name of the employer. Work somewhere else maybe?
I know it seems strange, but people somehow supported their families, paid rent and bought food before the concept of Uber was ever conceived.
Why not leave it up to the individual to decide what they will do for what money? If they want to contract with Uber, why not let them....if not, they can work somewhere else.
Because the worker doesn't have the negotiating power.
Sure they do, they can either offer their services to work for them or not.
As a contractor, if someone isn't giving me the money I request or we can't come to a dollar amount we can both agree on, I just pass that employment opportunity by.
Just because one party won't budge, doesn't mean the 2nd party HAS to agree. If they do, fine, as in with this case with Uber.
No one is forcing anyone to work for Uber.
Geez...why is the individual assumed to be powerless? Hey can vote with their fucking feet by walking out the door for other opportunities. If enough people didn't like the uber rate, other similar services and and will open up as competition. At which point, Uber likely will need to re-access their billing rates.
I know the topic of ethnic make-up of NBA players is a sensitive one
Who mentioned anything about ethnic makeup of the NBA player?
Based on the quote from the article:
new species of "long-legged," "pinheaded," and "gangly" human relative
This would apply to any tall, gangly player in the NBA, no matter what their race is......
Geez, why does everyone rush to start playing or arguing the damned RACE card on any description of a human.
The joke I was making was that ALL of the NBA players, by necessity of the sport, requires them to all be very tall, and gangly built (long legs, arms, etc).....
Good Lord people, get off the PC train long enough to realize every comment on a human or group of humans is not based on racism. Try to laugh at a silly joke once in awhile maybe?
>What's the difference between an employee and a contractor?
1) The amount of tax paid by the payer and the worker.
2) Employer provided health insurance.
3) Local bureaucratic procedures differ a lot between employing an employee and paying a contractor (It's easier with a contractor).
Well, not 100% true.
1. You pay the same tax for the most part, the big difference is, as a contractor, you have to wear your Big Boy pants and plan to save to pay tax owed, since it is not taken immediately out of your paycheck before you get it. That being said, one benefit as a contractor is you can write off a lot of stuff, which in the long run, does enable you to keep more of your pay from the tax man...it does, however, require you to do a bit more paperwork and be responsible for records and money management. I personally find the effort more than justified.
2. As a contractor, you are an employee of your own company, therefore you provide your own insurance...you're company your insurance. The thing is, as a contractor, you negotiate your bill rate to count for this expense....much like a W2 employer pays you less per hour since they are picking up the benefits tab...as a contractor you CHARGE more so that you can pick up the tab.
3. Yes...I dunno why they make it so hard to be a contractor. Shouldn't it be up to the individual to be what they want to be? Personally, I find it best to negotiate my worth with the employer, and find a $$ amount we are both satisfied with. I also like the broader choice I get in how to manage my money, HSA, and retirement. I'm adult, I can make my own decisions thank you. Why not make it easier for folks that can take care of themselves to do just that?
Why should it NOT be up to the individual to classify themselves at contractor or employee?
I mean, if a person wants to be a contractor, and enjoy the benefit risks that offers vs W2 employee, why should they not be allowed to make their own choices?
Why does the Govt know better than the worker himself how they want to negotiate and work for their pay?
I would NEVER want to go back to the W2 world. Sure it is a PITA at times, doing the extra paperwork, but I enjoy writing off so much more, and with a bit of effort, saving more of my hard earned $$ from the tax man.
Hmm...perhaps that it? It isn't for the person wanting to work, it is ONLY for the govt folks wanting to drain more tax money out of the system, because obviously they know better how to spend your money than you do....?
The labor laws were specifically written to protect people who are working for much more powerful companies which will treat them as serfs if they can get away with it.
Err, you know, last time I looked, no one was holding a gun to the Uber drivers' heads to work for them. So far, all the Uber drivers I've met so far, seemed very happy with the set up, they specifically say they do when I've asked them.
If it makes sense for a pet, then surely it makes sense for a child? Also who gave them the right to tell me I can't genetically modify my children, maybe I don't want them to need glasses and why not make them smarter while I'm at it?...
I don't really see a problem with that either..I mean, if you as a parent can prevent your child having physical and mental problems, why not? If you can give your child a leg up on others physically and mentally...why would you not want to and not be able to?
but seriously anything we clone now is not a replica in the way copying a computer file is. it may have the same physical looks, it may be dna identical, however it will not, it cannot be an exact replacement for a pet
I can see bad things if people do this thinking they will get their lovable pet back and find it to be a totally different animal
Well, if you raised the animal the same as you did the first one, why would it not develop a personality at least similar to the original?
I know we don't have the Dune Ghola thing going...but it would at least be close to it, having the same eyes to look into, etc.
Hell even Iranian government isn't stupid enough to go nuclear.
I don't know if you can really say that.
I mean, apparently a majority of those muslims believe that a good jihad will land them in paradise with the 72 virgins.
I mean, hell, they don't have trouble finding folks to strap a bomb on themselves and blowing themselves up in suicide and taking a few infidels with them.
Why do you believe they'd not be willing to do it on a much larger scale, as long as many more infidels of the great satan are taken out with the effort?
Hey, lets do what we've done to men in the basic education areas.
We've tilted the system so much, that now, a major majority of college students are now women...we've swung the pendulum so far, that now, it is men that are in danger of not being fairly represented in the upper education system students and grads, it will follow that men will soon likely be left behind in the IT and other tech fields.
While boosting women, it seems that we've also been hurting young men's chances at these fields they used to flourish in.
More and more of our young men are now being forgotten as important too. The idea of Political Correctness and the pushing of women in areas of education have not just promoted women, but they have seemingly actively gone to push men's numbers down in these ranks.
And the thing that made it even funnier, the old lady that said "Hey, I speak jive"..was the lady that played June Cleaver from Leave it to Beaver, about the whitest lady you could find at the time!!
Ah...man, I bet in today's ultra PC society, you'd never get a movie like Airplane made again.
There's lots of great movies that likely could not be made today. I don't think Fast Times at Ridgemont High could get made today since it portrayed underage teen sex....
And as an old acquaintance of men did, he gave his wife controlling interest of his company so that he could bid as a minority owned business. Coupled with his political connections - it's good to donate to polÃftical candidates - he's doing quite well.
Yep, that's how it works.
Basically, "Two White Guys, Inc" will not be even considered for a federal govt contract, and really most state and local ones either.
So, what you do is partner with (and giving 51%) an established minority owned company (if it is a female minority owner, you have hit the jackpot)...or you do like you suggested and make your own company in your wife's name...you'd just better trust her.
But anyway, you submit as a female/minority owned contractor, and with the larger contracts you are basically just the front end for a larger company that wouldn't qualify, like Lockheed or that level....and apply for the contract.
Once the contract is awarded, you usually go through a couple of cycles of the losers suing to block it and the govt has to review its proceedings, etc...and finally it gets awarded....lather, rinse repeat.
And there you have it..that is how things are done in the Fed Govt. contracting world.
The reason you will still work with ridiculously wealthy is because if you don't work you'll soon get bored, or start to feel like a worthless leech only taking from society, but not giving anything back.
AGain...nope, I have plenty of hobbies and interests, and would not get bored.
And as for society...what do I have to "give back"? I don't feel I owe "society" anything really, I'm in the game for ME. You come into this world alone, you have a short period of time here...you gotta enjoy it.
Sure I love my family and my friends, but when it comes down to it, where rubber meets the road, it is all about me, the individual and what makes my short time on earth here special and fun.
I don't owe anyone anything. I don't mind giving, but I don't feel obligated to give anything back to anyone.
You can't hit the gym daily for 1-2 hours with a job? Tons of people do.. ok, it's the bottom end of your scale, but I do an hour a day (walking on a treadmill, watching TV on an iPad).
I try, but often, things get in the way....that and the job is not always close to where the gym is.
And it is rushed, if having to do the gym early in the morning before work, and a PITA if you have to go in the afternoons (4-5pm) when the gym is full, and traffic is a PITA getting there.
So, yes, much easier to do it as your pace, at your times if you don't have to force it into an already crowded schedule with a work day.
How about entertaining yourself, travel, have fun..party with (old established) friends....
I don't understand, do that many people out there NOT have at least a thousand and one things they'd rather be doing on a work day? No hobbies, outside interests?
I mean, hell...the ONLY reason I work, is to earn enough $$$$ to support my lifestyle. If I didn't have to earn the money, I'd certainly not be working...and I"d have a blast till I died.
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The govt shouldn't be in the "business" of defining employee or contractor is what I'm saying.
Let companies and potential workers be fully free to define the terms of employment. Let the govt stay 100% out of the way.
There should be no legal "employee" or "contractor" definition....just two parties negotiating the terms of business for a working relationship.
There are plenty of jobs out there, you just have to be willing to do what it takes or move to where the jobs ARE.
No one owes you the ideal job you want in the location you want for the money you want.
You need to do what it takes to get out there and work. And there is plenty of work out there.
If you made serious vocational errors growing up, that's your tough luck, and you need to start now to sacrifice and do whatever to try to make up for that. But we shouldn't hold everything in business to the lowest common denominator enforced by govt regulation.
The govt should have no place in the negotiation of working pay, etc. I see the govt making sure working conditions and all are safe, but as far as the relationship on what is paid, what is expected, hours, etc...that should be between the employer and the employee (generically speaking). Frankly everyone should be "contractors"...voting with your feet where you want to work, who offers you the best deal, etc.
Get the State and Feds out of the middle of that relationship.
There are PLENTY of jobs out there.
You just might have to learn to be flexible in what you are willing to do. Maybe get out and retrain yourself while you are on unemployment...maybe you need to move to where the damned jobs ARE.
You don't have the "right" to the exact job you want where you want it...life doesn't work that way and cater to you. There are jobs to be had if you're at all willing to do what it takes to get them or get to them.
Life has no "easy" button guarantee.
I agree with you.
The company and person should follow the laws.
I'm saying the laws are wrong and shouldn't exist to hinder free will of those wanting to work or hire folks to work for them.
I'm saying the State (and federal) laws should NOT force a company or a person to not be able to agree on what form of working relationship they have (W2 or 1099), nor should it have a law saying these two parties are not 100% able to negotiate the fees between worker and employee/contractor.
We're supposed to be adults here, why can we not as adults choose to work for company A for $x...negotiated by the two parties. The state should not have laws the hinder the freedom of employer and employed.
And..there are PLENTY of other jobs out there that don't have UBER in the name of the employer. Work somewhere else maybe?
I know it seems strange, but people somehow supported their families, paid rent and bought food before the concept of Uber was ever conceived.
Why not leave it up to the individual to decide what they will do for what money? If they want to contract with Uber, why not let them....if not, they can work somewhere else.
Sure they do, they can either offer their services to work for them or not.
As a contractor, if someone isn't giving me the money I request or we can't come to a dollar amount we can both agree on, I just pass that employment opportunity by.
Just because one party won't budge, doesn't mean the 2nd party HAS to agree. If they do, fine, as in with this case with Uber.
No one is forcing anyone to work for Uber.
Geez...why is the individual assumed to be powerless? Hey can vote with their fucking feet by walking out the door for other opportunities. If enough people didn't like the uber rate, other similar services and and will open up as competition. At which point, Uber likely will need to re-access their billing rates.
Who mentioned anything about ethnic makeup of the NBA player?
Based on the quote from the article:
This would apply to any tall, gangly player in the NBA, no matter what their race is......
Geez, why does everyone rush to start playing or arguing the damned RACE card on any description of a human.
The joke I was making was that ALL of the NBA players, by necessity of the sport, requires them to all be very tall, and gangly built (long legs, arms, etc).....
Good Lord people, get off the PC train long enough to realize every comment on a human or group of humans is not based on racism. Try to laugh at a silly joke once in awhile maybe?
Well, not 100% true.
1. You pay the same tax for the most part, the big difference is, as a contractor, you have to wear your Big Boy pants and plan to save to pay tax owed, since it is not taken immediately out of your paycheck before you get it. That being said, one benefit as a contractor is you can write off a lot of stuff, which in the long run, does enable you to keep more of your pay from the tax man...it does, however, require you to do a bit more paperwork and be responsible for records and money management. I personally find the effort more than justified.
2. As a contractor, you are an employee of your own company, therefore you provide your own insurance...you're company your insurance. The thing is, as a contractor, you negotiate your bill rate to count for this expense....much like a W2 employer pays you less per hour since they are picking up the benefits tab...as a contractor you CHARGE more so that you can pick up the tab.
3. Yes...I dunno why they make it so hard to be a contractor. Shouldn't it be up to the individual to be what they want to be? Personally, I find it best to negotiate my worth with the employer, and find a $$ amount we are both satisfied with. I also like the broader choice I get in how to manage my money, HSA, and retirement. I'm adult, I can make my own decisions thank you. Why not make it easier for folks that can take care of themselves to do just that?
I mean, if a person wants to be a contractor, and enjoy the benefit risks that offers vs W2 employee, why should they not be allowed to make their own choices?
Why does the Govt know better than the worker himself how they want to negotiate and work for their pay?
I would NEVER want to go back to the W2 world. Sure it is a PITA at times, doing the extra paperwork, but I enjoy writing off so much more, and with a bit of effort, saving more of my hard earned $$ from the tax man.
Hmm...perhaps that it? It isn't for the person wanting to work, it is ONLY for the govt folks wanting to drain more tax money out of the system, because obviously they know better how to spend your money than you do....?
Err, you know, last time I looked, no one was holding a gun to the Uber drivers' heads to work for them. So far, all the Uber drivers I've met so far, seemed very happy with the set up, they specifically say they do when I've asked them.
I've not heard that before..associating what one eats and dietary choices to being Left or Right?
I don't really see a problem with that either..I mean, if you as a parent can prevent your child having physical and mental problems, why not? If you can give your child a leg up on others physically and mentally...why would you not want to and not be able to?
Well, if you raised the animal the same as you did the first one, why would it not develop a personality at least similar to the original?
I know we don't have the Dune Ghola thing going...but it would at least be close to it, having the same eyes to look into, etc.
I don't know if you can really say that.
I mean, apparently a majority of those muslims believe that a good jihad will land them in paradise with the 72 virgins.
I mean, hell, they don't have trouble finding folks to strap a bomb on themselves and blowing themselves up in suicide and taking a few infidels with them.
Why do you believe they'd not be willing to do it on a much larger scale, as long as many more infidels of the great satan are taken out with the effort?
Is the govt going to tell us we can do that? WTF did they get the rights to tell us we can't have a clone of our pets?
Well, at the very least, if it has happened before or at least been planned and suggested before ...then it should be considered that they might suggest something might could indeed happen.
It always pays to ask questions and be vigilant.
AKA: Senators.
Build up and put in the safer nuclear reactors we have nowadays...and supplement them with wind and solar.
There is no need to just have a monoculture when it comes to power.
We've tilted the system so much, that now, a major majority of college students are now women...we've swung the pendulum so far, that now, it is men that are in danger of not being fairly represented in the upper education system students and grads, it will follow that men will soon likely be left behind in the IT and other tech fields.
While boosting women, it seems that we've also been hurting young men's chances at these fields they used to flourish in.
More and more of our young men are now being forgotten as important too. The idea of Political Correctness and the pushing of women in areas of education have not just promoted women, but they have seemingly actively gone to push men's numbers down in these ranks.
Are you seriously thinking that THAT is something we need?
Right now, people are getting too scared to say much of anything which is the direct opposite of what we need.
We need lots of speech, we need more speech that you and others may disagree with....
If we keep getting fearful or overthinking what we say...eventually nothing useful gets said anymore.
"Responsible" speech...WTF is that anyway?
And the thing that made it even funnier, the old lady that said "Hey, I speak jive"..was the lady that played June Cleaver from Leave it to Beaver, about the whitest lady you could find at the time!!
Ah...man, I bet in today's ultra PC society, you'd never get a movie like Airplane made again.
There's lots of great movies that likely could not be made today. I don't think Fast Times at Ridgemont High could get made today since it portrayed underage teen sex....
Yep, that's how it works.
Basically, "Two White Guys, Inc" will not be even considered for a federal govt contract, and really most state and local ones either.
So, what you do is partner with (and giving 51%) an established minority owned company (if it is a female minority owner, you have hit the jackpot)...or you do like you suggested and make your own company in your wife's name...you'd just better trust her.
But anyway, you submit as a female/minority owned contractor, and with the larger contracts you are basically just the front end for a larger company that wouldn't qualify, like Lockheed or that level....and apply for the contract.
Once the contract is awarded, you usually go through a couple of cycles of the losers suing to block it and the govt has to review its proceedings, etc...and finally it gets awarded....lather, rinse repeat.
And there you have it..that is how things are done in the Fed Govt. contracting world.
Just give me tons of money..the more the better and I"ll be happier.
If they can let me work from home....even better!!
AGain...nope, I have plenty of hobbies and interests, and would not get bored.
And as for society...what do I have to "give back"? I don't feel I owe "society" anything really, I'm in the game for ME. You come into this world alone, you have a short period of time here...you gotta enjoy it.
Sure I love my family and my friends, but when it comes down to it, where rubber meets the road, it is all about me, the individual and what makes my short time on earth here special and fun.
I don't owe anyone anything. I don't mind giving, but I don't feel obligated to give anything back to anyone.
I try, but often, things get in the way....that and the job is not always close to where the gym is.
And it is rushed, if having to do the gym early in the morning before work, and a PITA if you have to go in the afternoons (4-5pm) when the gym is full, and traffic is a PITA getting there.
So, yes, much easier to do it as your pace, at your times if you don't have to force it into an already crowded schedule with a work day.
I don't understand, do that many people out there NOT have at least a thousand and one things they'd rather be doing on a work day? No hobbies, outside interests?
I mean, hell...the ONLY reason I work, is to earn enough $$$$ to support my lifestyle. If I didn't have to earn the money, I'd certainly not be working...and I"d have a blast till I died.