The whole "my OS is better then your OS" argument is wearing thin. From both sides of the Open Source / Closed Source Factions. Maybe some day people will realize that certain OSs are created for specific purposes. Microsoft clearly is the leader in the desktop front, and *NIX is clearly the leader in the back end. The distension that is created by the people who believe that an office/home/"place where computers are used" should all be one happy OS family and cannot have other OSs involved are the truly ignorant. Microsoft is constantly criticized because to them communication and connectivity to them means communication / connectivity to other Microsoft products. When OS vendors wake up and realize that having communication between multiple OSs will create a truly powerful environment, then both of these arguments will cease to exist and we as the consumer will be the ones who will benefit.
Frankly I am posting this to both of the above posters. When you learn to play together, you will find that you will become far more powerful than by fighting with each other. ------------------------------------------ --
Since you are going through here basically just restating what people have just said, but only in a microsoft light, I will attempt to play this game with you while maintaining an OS neutral stance.
Microsoft was punished because they aggressively attempted to eliminate the consumers right to freedom of choice. To Microsoft, interoperability and network communication means communication and interoperability with other microsoft products. They are not concerned with allowing other users, programs, applications etc.. to function with in their domain. It is not about which operating system is better (which seems to be your stance), it is about dominating and attempting to destroy a market (which is the DOJs stance).
Since you don't seem to grasp this concept, and you apparently don't read court breifs, I have attempted to explain this to you. I realize that you are either:
a) a pro microsoft person who doesn't see things any other way b) someone with nothing better to do than to attempt to ruffle the feathers of some known alternative OS supporters c) a troll who also has characteristics of b)
but I feel it necessary to explain this to you since I also have nothing better to do right now, and you are annoying me with your blatant aggrivation. ------------------------------------ --------
What dont seem to understand though, is that the playing field has now been leveled. There is no internally hidden advantage withing Microsoft. In the past Microsoft had a competitive edge on other software vendors because their applications were able to use hooks in the OS that others were not even aware of. Now with the seperation of the two enteties they are forced to contribute to Open Standards to have any sort of communication between applications and the OS.
I am not saying that Microsoft will cease "innovation" (if you want to call it that), but now others will be able to see, use, touch and play with the same tools that Microsoft has held so dearly to themselves.
Open Standards are a Good Thing (TM) --------------------------------------------
One thing that I learned in my US govt class was that the US govt often adopts the same (or similar) laws as other governments in Europe, however the way that our system is set up it creates a larger bureacracy (sp) thus it takes us longer. Most of the European governments only have one party that has to agree in order for a proposition to become a law. Hopefully the US bureacuracy (again sp) wont drag its feet on this too much.
This could become even more important since the US govt (FTC) has given up on net self regulation --------------------------------------------
Require internet service providers that wish to qualify for safe harbor to collect personally identifiable and verifiable information from their users. Napster currently allows its users to sign on anonymously, making it impossible for rights holders to track down the infringers.
Establish a time frame for the "notice and take down" process for removal of infringing material. The law as currently written has no set time table, consequently service providers with a vested interest in the infringing activity of their subscribers, like Napster, have no incentive to act in a timely fashion.
Give judges the flexibility to grant injunctions against service providers whose services are substantially used for copyright infringement. It may be impossible to write a law that accounts for every conceivable technological innovations, however a judge will know an illegal act when she sees it.
Maybe Im not understanding this correctly, but this sounds a little too Naziesque for my tastes. The first point sounds like they want to implement a system where they can essentially brand the users of programs like Napster solely for the purpose of prosecution. I really don't have a problem with the second point. The third point would essentiall give the bablance of power to judges. This could be a Bad Thing. Judges who don't Get It may turn this whole thing into a Salem Witch Trial: you have MP3s, you go to jail. ------------------------------------------- -
I have this, ummm, friend...yeah...who uses windows. How would one go about turning off the Windows Scripting on my computer. Did I say "my?" I meant "his."
And for those of you geeks who think that you are cute, I already fell for the "c:\deltree *.*" joke....I didn't think it was funny. ------------------------------------------ --
For those of you who tend to look past the obvious (sorry Chairboy, but you are one of them) there is an even easier solution to the potential depletion of earth's resources:
stop friggin using them
The cheapest and easiest solution to conserving mother earth is to use what we have here already in a more responsible manner. People are naive is they simply think that we are just going to move to another planet when we burn this one out. You slashdot people need to put down the lame Science Fiction crap and put you big heads together and look for smarter solutions Here on our planet.
"This land is mine This land is free I do what I want but irresponsibly" -Pearl Jam --------------------------------------------
Apparently it doesn't cost them enough money. I have set up an account with hotmail that I use when I have to register a login on a web page (usually warez) that demands an e-mail address. I check it periodically, this thread reminded me to check it....234 messages since April 7. I go through all of the subjects to determine if there are any that look like they might be legit messages...of course there are those that have "me again" in the subject, or "hi there"....I feel obligated to check them just in case. None of them ever are legit.
I have added all of these e-mail addresses to my "bulk mail" (read: junk mail repository) and found that none of them are repeat offenders. So instead of replying to each of them and saying "stop spamming me" I just leave it in my hotmail account (see, Microsoft IS good for something) -------------------------------------- ------
I read an interview with Linus in the Linux Journal (I think it was their November 1999 issue) and Linus doesn't take credit for writing LINUX. He is very modest (and very honest) that he didn't write the LINUX kernel. He knows that it is those many people out there who have written it. Linus is a figurehead, just like the president of the USA and just like so many people out int he world. The media (obviously) wants someone that they can give credit to and they want someone that they can interview when it comes to Linux topics, my guess is that Linus was nominated for this one. It is hard to interview a community, so you find an individual that you can make a representative / ambassador to the community. Bill Joy is not wrong by saying that Linus didn't write LINUX, Linus is just a figure head. If mr Joy wishes to get all pissed off about this, then he doesn't realize the truth of the matter is - he is right. --------------------------------------------
I hate trolls (I hate that word too), but this is just too much
Why don't you post your report on a website, Im sure that there are others who would love to proof read it for you. Since you seem to be so informed that you can't even spell Torvalds right or know the difference between a kernel and an OS, I really doubt that your are as credible as you claim to be. Think of your report as an open source document, and all of us will help you write it.
I guess that another question that I have would be why would someone want to try to find loopholes in the notion of freedom. That sounds pretty absurd to me. Apparently there really are people who are unhappy with freedom as it stands and want to find something wrong with it. Besides, the errors that you and your legal team uncover will only make us stronger. Thank you for your involuntary support and contribution to the free software community. --------------------------------------------
Since in Fasc(ist)Dot's world you have to have a production realeased to make you language useful, then I guess that the following languages are utterly useless in your world: Perl SCHEME LISP SNOBOL Ada(although I could be wrong on this one) HTML Javascript XML
Just because production/shrink wrap software is not written in Java, doesn't mean that it doesn't have a place.
Its also interesting to see that the concept of Ethernet has gone full circle. Ethernet was born at the University of Hawaii and was called Alona Net. It was a way for remote locations (like islands and ships) to communicate data back to a central resource. So it looks like ethernet was born in the airwaves, then it went to the ground (through copper and fiber) and now it is going back to the air again. Just some mindless knowledge for the average slashdotter:) --------------------------------------------
This is way off topic (moderators, please look the other way), but this guy is KILLING ME. I havn't seen an AC go around and be so seriously funny in a while. I'm sure that it will get old, as do most of the AC trolls (even though they aren't trolls), but for the time being I am enjoying this guy, keep up the good work. ------------------------------------------- -
I wish I would have known that crapping in the sink was bad, then I wouldn't have missed so many recesses. Sorry to all my fellow classmates who missed recess because nobody informed me about the sink. ------------------------------------------- -
From what I understand in my OS class that I took last semester, there is a limit to the percent that a compiler is able to automatically detect concurrent code. The limit is due to weak algorithms and not due to OSs. Currently the limit is somewhere around 30%, but I could very easily be wrong. ------------------------------------------ --
Depression is an on going battle in my life. Like some of the people described in this thread, I am not recognizable as a "depressed person." However, it is a battle that I fight daily. It is something that I will never allow myself to be overtaken by, however this determination requires a large amount of conscious effort. Through the use of daily reflection, a strict regemine of (recommended) herbal drugs and the occassional "non-herbal" drugs, I am able to live what others perceive as a normal life. I have made myself into a person who has a desire to live and to be successful (relatively speaking) in my life. I have found that there are pleasures in life, but there will always be a cloud that follows me around and will be a burden in my life.
I am not a doctor, but this is my 2 cents: I hope that one day I will not have to suffer from this "disease" and that I will not have to deal with the hardship that has been handed to me, but I refuse to give in to it...and that is what seperates those who are depressed and those who can cope. I hope that anyone who reads this and relates to it can find in themselves the determaination that I have found. There is help out there, but you have to want it and have to find it for yourself. It won't find you. There is a drug that you can get at your local herbalist drug store (here in Las Vegas it is at Spartan Food and Drug) called "Mind Trac" that has helped me out immensely. It is all herbal (doesn't imply healthy, but compared to the alternative....) and when taken with St Johns Wart it is considered to be as effective as prozac without some of the chemical side effects. The only downside that I have encountered from this drug is that (like most herbal remedies) it only lasts about 4-6 hours, so it is necessary to take several times a day.
I wish all of you out there the luck and hope that I have found. Take care. ------------------------------------------- -
keyboards, mice, joysticks, speakers etc... do NOT constitute hardware. Those are peripherals, things that are external add-ons to your computer to make it more cozy. Hardware would be the things that are inside of the beige box that is sitting next to you (or if you have a Sun or SGI, the purplish-blue/indigo box....Im not here to list every possible color of comptuer cases). Microsoft apparently does have a different definition of hardware.
The X-box could arguable be an example of MS hardware, but I dont believe that they are the OEM of that machine, and besides, it is more of a dumbed down PC, designed to play games than a piece of hardware IMHO. --------------------------------------------
I wonder if any of these "hardened criminals" chose bandwidth as the "most important thing in [their] life" on the last slashdot poll.... ---------------------------------------- ----
...and at one time, Disco (which is alive and well and renamed to "House" and "Club" music)
hmm....Disco == House. I only partially agree with that. While the "lifestyle" of Disco and the "heart and soul" of Disco is being repeated through the current trend of "House" the music is not the same. While some may argue that the scene is what makes the music, I personally find that it is the music that makes the scene. I cannot stand Disco, but I (as a wannabe DJ) will spin all of the house tunes that I can at a good party. The only time that I appreciate a good disco song is when I can layer it in with a deep house beat, drown out the disco feel and give it a new life in the "Essence of House." Your point is well taken, and it is definately arguable, but I for one am only going to partially agree with it.
I am also aware that the above quoted statement was not the essence of your post, but I just wanted to throw in my two cents on the current state of house. Long live TRANCE --------------------------------------------
There was a chapter in a very poor VB book that I read once that I almost fell on the floor laughing at. I don't remember it verbatim, but the chapter was on recursion and it went something like this:
Recursion is when a programmer writes a function that calls itself. This is usually an error on the programmers part and should be avoided at all costs. Recursion is bad
The "Recursion is bad" IS a verbatim quote from the book. ------------------------------------------- -
It wouldn't be unlikely to see one of the companies take the Microsoft "Embrace and Extend" approach to the CPU market also. Where a program complied for and AMD would work on an Intel chip, but programs written for Intel would not work on an AMD.
I am not implying that Intel would do this, AMD could very easily do this also. This was merely an example showing that once binary compatibility is broken, it opens the way for one competitor to take very aggressive measures to ensure their own sucsess. --------------------------------------------
What about a virus that was similar to the Melissa virus in that it was able to propegate itself. Suppose that it was not able to go through your e-mail files, but instead it could ls/homes/ and then send itself to the users on the local system. After it sent itself it would rm the users files (or whatever said virus wanted to mangle). While it is true that it would not damage most of the root processes it would be a huge annoyance to the local users of the system, and could potentially bog down a system. If this was a university that had thousands of users, there would be a lot of pissed off students.
Maybe I am being naive, but is there anything that could prevent such a "virus" (if you want to call it that) from happening? -------------------------------------- ------
Slashdot Mirror
"can't we all get along"
- --
-Rodney King
The whole "my OS is better then your OS" argument is wearing thin. From both sides of the Open Source / Closed Source Factions. Maybe some day people will realize that certain OSs are created for specific purposes. Microsoft clearly is the leader in the desktop front, and *NIX is clearly the leader in the back end. The distension that is created by the people who believe that an office/home/"place where computers are used" should all be one happy OS family and cannot have other OSs involved are the truly ignorant. Microsoft is constantly criticized because to them communication and connectivity to them means communication / connectivity to other Microsoft products. When OS vendors wake up and realize that having communication between multiple OSs will create a truly powerful environment, then both of these arguments will cease to exist and we as the consumer will be the ones who will benefit.
Frankly I am posting this to both of the above posters. When you learn to play together, you will find that you will become far more powerful than by fighting with each other.
-----------------------------------------
Since you are going through here basically just restating what people have just said, but only in a microsoft light, I will attempt to play this game with you while maintaining an OS neutral stance.
- --------
Microsoft was punished because they aggressively attempted to eliminate the consumers right to freedom of choice. To Microsoft, interoperability and network communication means communication and interoperability with other microsoft products. They are not concerned with allowing other users, programs, applications etc.. to function with in their domain. It is not about which operating system is better (which seems to be your stance), it is about dominating and attempting to destroy a market (which is the DOJs stance).
Since you don't seem to grasp this concept, and you apparently don't read court breifs, I have attempted to explain this to you. I realize that you are either:
a) a pro microsoft person who doesn't see things any other way
b) someone with nothing better to do than to attempt to ruffle the feathers of some known alternative OS supporters
c) a troll who also has characteristics of b)
but I feel it necessary to explain this to you since I also have nothing better to do right now, and you are annoying me with your blatant aggrivation.
-----------------------------------
What dont seem to understand though, is that the playing field has now been leveled. There is no internally hidden advantage withing Microsoft. In the past Microsoft had a competitive edge on other software vendors because their applications were able to use hooks in the OS that others were not even aware of. Now with the seperation of the two enteties they are forced to contribute to Open Standards to have any sort of communication between applications and the OS.
-
I am not saying that Microsoft will cease "innovation" (if you want to call it that), but now others will be able to see, use, touch and play with the same tools that Microsoft has held so dearly to themselves.
Open Standards are a Good Thing (TM)
-------------------------------------------
One thing that I learned in my US govt class was that the US govt often adopts the same (or similar) laws as other governments in Europe, however the way that our system is set up it creates a larger bureacracy (sp) thus it takes us longer. Most of the European governments only have one party that has to agree in order for a proposition to become a law. Hopefully the US bureacuracy (again sp) wont drag its feet on this too much.
This could become even more important since the US govt (FTC) has given up on net self regulation
--------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
Imagine a beo... oh nevermind.
Imagine a wolfpack cluster of....oh I think I need to shuddup too.
--------------------------------------------
I have this, ummm, friend...yeah...who uses windows. How would one go about turning off the Windows Scripting on my computer. Did I say "my?" I meant "his."
- --
And for those of you geeks who think that you are cute, I already fell for the "c:\deltree *.*" joke....I didn't think it was funny.
-----------------------------------------
It'd look even cooler in this case-
-------------------------------------------
For those of you who tend to look past the obvious (sorry Chairboy, but you are one of them) there is an even easier solution to the potential depletion of earth's resources:
stop friggin using them
The cheapest and easiest solution to conserving mother earth is to use what we have here already in a more responsible manner. People are naive is they simply think that we are just going to move to another planet when we burn this one out. You slashdot people need to put down the lame Science Fiction crap and put you big heads together and look for smarter solutions Here on our planet.
"This land is mine
This land is free
I do what I want
but irresponsibly"
-Pearl Jam
--------------------------------------------
Apparently it doesn't cost them enough money. I have set up an account with hotmail that I use when I have to register a login on a web page (usually warez) that demands an e-mail address. I check it periodically, this thread reminded me to check it....234 messages since April 7. I go through all of the subjects to determine if there are any that look like they might be legit messages...of course there are those that have "me again" in the subject, or "hi there"....I feel obligated to check them just in case. None of them ever are legit.
- ------
I have added all of these e-mail addresses to my "bulk mail" (read: junk mail repository) and found that none of them are repeat offenders. So instead of replying to each of them and saying "stop spamming me" I just leave it in my hotmail account (see, Microsoft IS good for something)
-------------------------------------
I read an interview with Linus in the Linux Journal (I think it was their November 1999 issue) and Linus doesn't take credit for writing LINUX. He is very modest (and very honest) that he didn't write the LINUX kernel. He knows that it is those many people out there who have written it. Linus is a figurehead, just like the president of the USA and just like so many people out int he world. The media (obviously) wants someone that they can give credit to and they want someone that they can interview when it comes to Linux topics, my guess is that Linus was nominated for this one. It is hard to interview a community, so you find an individual that you can make a representative / ambassador to the community. Bill Joy is not wrong by saying that Linus didn't write LINUX, Linus is just a figure head. If mr Joy wishes to get all pissed off about this, then he doesn't realize the truth of the matter is - he is right.
--------------------------------------------
I hate trolls (I hate that word too), but this is just too much
Why don't you post your report on a website, Im sure that there are others who would love to proof read it for you. Since you seem to be so informed that you can't even spell Torvalds right or know the difference between a kernel and an OS, I really doubt that your are as credible as you claim to be. Think of your report as an open source document, and all of us will help you write it.
I guess that another question that I have would be why would someone want to try to find loopholes in the notion of freedom. That sounds pretty absurd to me. Apparently there really are people who are unhappy with freedom as it stands and want to find something wrong with it. Besides, the errors that you and your legal team uncover will only make us stronger. Thank you for your involuntary support and contribution to the free software community.
--------------------------------------------
Since in Fasc(ist)Dot's world you have to have a production realeased to make you language useful, then I guess that the following languages are utterly useless in your world:
Perl
SCHEME LISP
SNOBOL
Ada(although I could be wrong on this one)
HTML
Javascript
XML
Just because production/shrink wrap software is not written in Java, doesn't mean that it doesn't have a place.
--------------------------------------------
Its also interesting to see that the concept of Ethernet has gone full circle. :)
Ethernet was born at the University of Hawaii and was called Alona Net. It was a way for remote locations (like islands and ships) to communicate data back to a central resource.
So it looks like ethernet was born in the airwaves, then it went to the ground (through copper and fiber) and now it is going back to the air again.
Just some mindless knowledge for the average slashdotter
--------------------------------------------
(cough)
-
Wing Commander sucks
(cough)
nuff said
-------------------------------------------
This is way off topic (moderators, please look the other way), but this guy is KILLING ME. I havn't seen an AC go around and be so seriously funny in a while. I'm sure that it will get old, as do most of the AC trolls (even though they aren't trolls), but for the time being I am enjoying this guy, keep up the good work.- -
------------------------------------------
I wish I would have known that crapping in the sink was bad, then I wouldn't have missed so many recesses. Sorry to all my fellow classmates who missed recess because nobody informed me about the sink.- -
------------------------------------------
From what I understand in my OS class that I took last semester, there is a limit to the percent that a compiler is able to automatically detect concurrent code. The limit is due to weak algorithms and not due to OSs. Currently the limit is somewhere around 30%, but I could very easily be wrong.- --
-----------------------------------------
Depression is an on going battle in my life. Like some of the people described in this thread, I am not recognizable as a "depressed person." However, it is a battle that I fight daily. It is something that I will never allow myself to be overtaken by, however this determination requires a large amount of conscious effort. Through the use of daily reflection, a strict regemine of (recommended) herbal drugs and the occassional "non-herbal" drugs, I am able to live what others perceive as a normal life. I have made myself into a person who has a desire to live and to be successful (relatively speaking) in my life. I have found that there are pleasures in life, but there will always be a cloud that follows me around and will be a burden in my life.
- -
I am not a doctor, but this is my 2 cents:
I hope that one day I will not have to suffer from this "disease" and that I will not have to deal with the hardship that has been handed to me, but I refuse to give in to it...and that is what seperates those who are depressed and those who can cope. I hope that anyone who reads this and relates to it can find in themselves the determaination that I have found. There is help out there, but you have to want it and have to find it for yourself. It won't find you. There is a drug that you can get at your local herbalist drug store (here in Las Vegas it is at Spartan Food and Drug) called "Mind Trac" that has helped me out immensely. It is all herbal (doesn't imply healthy, but compared to the alternative....) and when taken with St Johns Wart it is considered to be as effective as prozac without some of the chemical side effects. The only downside that I have encountered from this drug is that (like most herbal remedies) it only lasts about 4-6 hours, so it is necessary to take several times a day.
I wish all of you out there the luck and hope that I have found. Take care.
------------------------------------------
keyboards, mice, joysticks, speakers etc... do NOT constitute hardware. Those are peripherals, things that are external add-ons to your computer to make it more cozy. Hardware would be the things that are inside of the beige box that is sitting next to you (or if you have a Sun or SGI, the purplish-blue/indigo box....Im not here to list every possible color of comptuer cases). Microsoft apparently does have a different definition of hardware.
The X-box could arguable be an example of MS hardware, but I dont believe that they are the OEM of that machine, and besides, it is more of a dumbed down PC, designed to play games than a piece of hardware IMHO.
--------------------------------------------
I wonder if any of these "hardened criminals" chose bandwidth as the "most important thing in [their] life" on the last slashdot poll....- ----
---------------------------------------
...and at one time, Disco (which is alive and well and renamed to "House" and "Club" music)
hmm....Disco == House. I only partially agree with that. While the "lifestyle" of Disco and the "heart and soul" of Disco is being repeated through the current trend of "House" the music is not the same. While some may argue that the scene is what makes the music, I personally find that it is the music that makes the scene. I cannot stand Disco, but I (as a wannabe DJ) will spin all of the house tunes that I can at a good party. The only time that I appreciate a good disco song is when I can layer it in with a deep house beat, drown out the disco feel and give it a new life in the "Essence of House."
Your point is well taken, and it is definately arguable, but I for one am only going to partially agree with it.
I am also aware that the above quoted statement was not the essence of your post, but I just wanted to throw in my two cents on the current state of house. Long live TRANCE
--------------------------------------------
There was a chapter in a very poor VB book that I read once that I almost fell on the floor laughing at. I don't remember it verbatim, but the chapter was on recursion and it went something like this:
- -
Recursion is when a programmer writes a function that calls itself. This is usually an error on the programmers part and should be avoided at all costs. Recursion is bad
The "Recursion is bad" IS a verbatim quote from the book.
------------------------------------------
It wouldn't be unlikely to see one of the companies take the Microsoft "Embrace and Extend" approach to the CPU market also. Where a program complied for and AMD would work on an Intel chip, but programs written for Intel would not work on an AMD.
I am not implying that Intel would do this, AMD could very easily do this also. This was merely an example showing that once binary compatibility is broken, it opens the way for one competitor to take very aggressive measures to ensure their own sucsess.
--------------------------------------------
This is kind of a "what-if" situation
/homes/ and then send itself to the users on the local system. After it sent itself it would rm the users files (or whatever said virus wanted to mangle). While it is true that it would not damage most of the root processes it would be a huge annoyance to the local users of the system, and could potentially bog down a system. If this was a university that had thousands of users, there would be a lot of pissed off students.
- ------
What about a virus that was similar to the Melissa virus in that it was able to propegate itself. Suppose that it was not able to go through your e-mail files, but instead it could ls
Maybe I am being naive, but is there anything that could prevent such a "virus" (if you want to call it that) from happening?
-------------------------------------