Call it a auto-da-fe Public relations of the Limux project. They didn't expect the media reaction in Munich, so they cooled it down. They didn't want to spread FUD about the Limux oproject, they wanted to say that software patents are dangerous for them and cause costs. They wanted to urge the German Government to stop software patents.
We were surprised by the announcement of Wilhelm Hoegner and the mayor. I learnt from both only through the media. Yet I think their message is exactly to the point.
Municipalities must assess the risk caused by software patents. Some government authorities in Sweden and the UK have already seen themselves forced to litigate against frivolous software patent claims in order to retain their freedom to do basic day-to-day business. Interestingly, in these cases there was no Linux or free software involved. Yet, it can not be denied that solutions supplied by local SMEs on the basis of free software, as envisaged by Munich's IT strategy, involve greater patent risks than a contract with a single big supplier such as IBM or Microsoft. In any case it is the normal procedure to try to assess the risk and insure it, be it through the supplier or through a separate insurance. Recent estimates from the US suggest that such a patent insurance could cost more than 100,000 eur per year. The costs would be very similar in Europe, if the Council's political agreement, for which the German government and other national governments have been fighting, became law. If, on the other hand, the European Parliament's version of the directive was adopted, the risk would drop to zero.
It is a good exercise for municipal governments to estimate patent risks in terms of insurance costs, and it would be an even better exercise for national governments to start serious assessment of the effects of legislation. No such calculation has to date been made, in spite of regular calls from Brussels to do so -- not to speak of calls from FFII to calculate the macro-economic costs of the various legislative options. The message from the Munich's mayor is therefore timely and should be heeded by other municipalities and governments, regardless of whether they plan to deploy free operating systems or not.
and help them to combat the software patent nightmare. Unfortunately it was the BSA that lobbies for software patent law.
I don't believe in benefits of software patents for megacorporations, for me patent law in the field of software just reflects the interests of a patent attorney. Ever economist knows that patent law is crap in some field, no developer needs them.
It will be cheaper for them to contribute a donation for FFII or support their work than to pay money for patent trolls.
There is only one tool to compete with:
http://www.pgmusic.com/bandbox.htm
It is a user-centered product, not for professionals, for musicians. It features everything musicians really need.
I would Band in the Box, a crappy old tool that does what the musician *really* needs.
From a usability perspective it may be bad, from a usefulness perspective it is unrivaled
Consider it as a fact. Asians are bad programmers.
Programming is culture centric. Perhaps a asian style of programming has to be invented. Far east means China/korea/Japan.
There are exceptions. The reason must be language. Programming uses a certain grammar.
Btw: just look how little software is developed by japanese, chinese...
"In India, you can cross over to a neighbouring state, and all of sudden not even be able to read that State's language, or understand it."
Same applies for China. China is a bunch of different chinese cultures, although they are regarded as chinese by the government. Kantonese, Mandarin, Bejing "dialect", different languages. Not to forget non-chinese cultures in China.
Different languages, different cultures, different social groups. In India Hindi is a good common language, in Pakistan it is the same but uses different words. It's not the language, it's vocabulary.
Chinese/Far Asians cannot code. There may be a few exeptions. They are good at other things. When you need real developer the salary does not count, skill and time is the factor.
When you leave outsourcing decisions to crappy Asian-hype analysts and business people they will go to China, of course...
As they know so much about the Indian skills... (a cheap waste of money).
"Chinese people as a rule are more homogenous than Indians, and by all anecdotal evidence are much more disciplined."
haha. Chinese are not homogenous at all, although they look the same to "us". And discipline does not count, it's only important that they do what you want them to do.
"by all anecdotal evidence are much more disciplined."
-- by anecdotal evidence.-) In the software industry you need quality and creativity. Discipline is for slave workers.
When you leave it to rational businessmen and developers you will outsource to Eastern Europe or The Baltics. They are skilled, talented developers, and their salary is cheap. The infrastructure is there and you can easily administer it from Western Europe.
"India is a democratic republic,.. China is more of a pseudo-communist/totalitarian-capitalist. This makes it easier for businessmen attempting to outsource, as they can operate in a framework they are familiar with."
Your assumption is that businesses don't like dictatorships. This is true. The problem is that in a non-demcratic government where freedom of individuals is not respected also freedom of business is not respected. And as everybody knows a totalitarian government is so inefficient, because there is a lack of checks and balances.
I talked to Modiano, UNISYS representative in München.
The patent EP129439 has expied according to some german computer magazine. Wich also seem to be true (date of filing 18-06-1984):
"High speed data compression and decompression apparatus and method" http://register.epoline.org/espacenet/reg viewer?AP =EP19840304111
But the patent EP0800726 will theoretically expire in 2015:
"LZW DATA COMPRESSION USING AN ASSOCIATIVE MEMORY" http://register.epoline.org/espacenet/reg viewer?AP =EP19950943914 http://ofi.epoline.org/view/GetDos sier?dosnum=9594 3914&lang=en#
Modiano is not paying the renewal fees, that is probably done by UNISYS themselves.
I had the same problem with XP: My scanner didn't work anymore because the company does not release a XP driver for this old scnner hardware. So I can run it under ME, I can run it under SuSe but not under XP thanks to closed source drivers.
Not really. Hope Novell will not interfere in SuSe's development. SuSe is a KDE distro and afaik it is not shipped with Ximian desktop. In Germany it's the consumer that decides, not trash talks of analysts.
i really don't understand why the Name Novell means so much to you. Who cares who is the owner of the shares?
Software patents ARE a real threat to Mono. FTC recently pushed for reform. It's now time for the USA to get rid of them. Patent attorneys will cry, but we know that its all crap.
Please help us in our EU campaign against software patents!
Miguel and Nat Friedmans are dangerous persons (low moral standards). They spread FUD about the KDE project and false news about their Novell role. Of course Suse 9.1 is shipped with KDE and not with Ximian Desktop. As easy as that. "Our customer rules".
http://kwiki.ffii.org/?Microsoft040602En
Comments of FFII to this patent and link to the patent file
Hartmut Pilch (president of ffii):
This is not the kind of patent that we really need to be concerned about, because its main claims can be refuted with prior art. The real bad software patents are those that can not be weeded out with prior art.
By granting the "double click" the US patent office has delivered one more among hundreds of thousands of examples which show that the patent examination system does not work for software. 10 years ago, patent offices and their supporters in the patent departments of IBM, AT&T etc claimed that software was just a "new technology" like any other, and that "bad patents" would soon be a thing of the past, thanks to new prior art search tools. But abstract ideas elude search tools, and software innovation is about abstraction. You just need to read the main claim of this Microsoft patent to realize this. It is a well known problem now and was well known in 1994, when the USPTO held its hearings. At that time, the big names of the US software industry, except for Microsoft, all disapproved of the USPTO's plans to legalise software patents, but the USPTO pressed ahead with its plans shortly after the hearing nonetheless.
http://swpat.ffii.org/analysis/trivial/
American provide big business stories but it usually seems to be hot air. I don't care about big business as the community depends on a few people that actually do something.
I am not intrested in IBM urging SUN to gpl Java as IBM *easily* could provide assistence to the GNU Classpath project. And what about Jikes?
Or Nat Friedman's anti-KDE Fud machine. Novells Suse supports KDE and he will not change that committment.
Business stories may delight some reader, I found it rather unintresting.
I don't think that despite for propaganda reasons big business was of any real importance. When they want provide help it's letter stamp money for them. I would like to see a real committment, i.e. manpower, code and support. I am not intrested in campaigns from the PR office.
(While IBM's patent attorneys lobby in BXL for swpats...)
Egypt is a country full of experienced young men and women who know that Linux will have a huge boost on future technology and that they will lose when they stick to Windows and Unix. Linux is their great opportunity to get to the first row while Europe and the US is trapped by the proprietary lockin.
And: Egypt is an arabic country and you know the great Islamic culture and the strong sharia law is very similar to GPL rules. Only GPl software conforms.
They will not go after The GIMP, they will hunt down for instance SuSe when their distro can be shipped. Then they reach an injunction from the court and cause very much trouble.
So there is only the political lobbying to get rid off swpats.
FFII did similar action against a Amazon patent earlier this year in Europe. Unfortunately I believe that the patent system must be fixed on a policy basis. Let's fix the patent system rather than playing theior games. I think it should not be our job to help to hunt down patents that shouldn't be granted and pay the fees of the patent industry. Software patents shall rather be stopped before they are issued by proper laws.
Slashdot Mirror
The problem in the USA is lack of organised resistance against software patents.
Perhaps we will get software patents in the EU. However this is unlikely.
I don't think software patent legislation will survive on the long run. It takes time and you have to get organised.
The only thing that needs to be replaced is the Patent Office. So getn organized (FFII USA) and combat the legal crap.
Even FFII was surprised about Munich's initial press release, Hartmut Pilch wrote:
I am pleased that FFII did not contribute to the Limux FUD despite the fact that a draft of a FFII supporter listing patents was involved.
Of course there is a problem with Software patents but is does not apply to Linux or Free Software in particular.
Everybody knows this from recent slashdot reports.
I think what is really needed is a FFII US to combat software patents on a global scale. Are there such organisations?
An American mailing list about the patent problem in the US can be found here.
Well, CEOs of both companies can subscribe to FFII US
http://lists.ffii.org/mailman/listinfo/us-parl
and help them to combat the software patent nightmare. Unfortunately it was the BSA that lobbies for software patent law.
I don't believe in benefits of software patents for megacorporations, for me patent law in the field of software just reflects the interests of a patent attorney. Ever economist knows that patent law is crap in some field, no developer needs them.
It will be cheaper for them to contribute a donation for FFII or support their work than to pay money for patent trolls.
A problem is that US commercial law is too crappy, US-GAAP accounting, the broken legal system. The US are an important market but that's it.
Of course you get listed on the US *financial market* as the financial market structure dominates in the US due to their financial market structure.
There is only one tool to compete with: http://www.pgmusic.com/bandbox.htm It is a user-centered product, not for professionals, for musicians. It features everything musicians really need.
I would Band in the Box, a crappy old tool that does what the musician *really* needs. From a usability perspective it may be bad, from a usefulness perspective it is unrivaled
Consider it as a fact. Asians are bad programmers.
Programming is culture centric. Perhaps a asian style of programming has to be invented. Far east means China/korea/Japan.
There are exceptions. The reason must be language. Programming uses a certain grammar.
Btw: just look how little software is developed by japanese, chinese...
"In India, you can cross over to a neighbouring state, and all of sudden not even be able to read that State's language, or understand it."
Same applies for China. China is a bunch of different chinese cultures, although they are regarded as chinese by the government. Kantonese, Mandarin, Bejing "dialect", different languages. Not to forget non-chinese cultures in China.
Different languages, different cultures, different social groups. In India Hindi is a good common language, in Pakistan it is the same but uses different words. It's not the language, it's vocabulary.
Oh, the "next India" ... urrgh!
.-) In the software industry you need quality and creativity. Discipline is for slave workers.
.. China is more of a pseudo-communist/totalitarian-capitalist. This makes it easier for businessmen attempting to outsource, as they can operate in a framework they are familiar with."
Chinese/Far Asians cannot code. There may be a few exeptions. They are good at other things. When you need real developer the salary does not count, skill and time is the factor.
When you leave outsourcing decisions to crappy Asian-hype analysts and business people they will go to China, of course...
As they know so much about the Indian skills... (a cheap waste of money).
"Chinese people as a rule are more homogenous than Indians, and by all anecdotal evidence are much more disciplined."
haha. Chinese are not homogenous at all, although they look the same to "us". And discipline does not count, it's only important that they do what you want them to do.
"by all anecdotal evidence are much more disciplined."
-- by anecdotal evidence
When you leave it to rational businessmen and developers you will outsource to Eastern Europe or The Baltics. They are skilled, talented developers, and their salary is cheap. The infrastructure is there and you can easily administer it from Western Europe.
"India is a democratic republic,
Your assumption is that businesses don't like dictatorships. This is true. The problem is that in a non-demcratic government where freedom of individuals is not respected also freedom of business is not respected. And as everybody knows a totalitarian government is so inefficient, because there is a lack of checks and balances.
Erik Josefsson, FFII sveden wrote:
g viewer?AP =EP19840304111
g viewer?AP =EP19950943914s sier?dosnum=9594 3914&lang=en#
I talked to Modiano, UNISYS representative in München.
The patent EP129439 has expied according to some german computer magazine. Wich also seem to be true (date of filing 18-06-1984):
"High speed data compression and decompression apparatus and method"
http://register.epoline.org/espacenet/re
But the patent EP0800726 will theoretically expire in 2015:
"LZW DATA COMPRESSION USING AN ASSOCIATIVE MEMORY"
http://register.epoline.org/espacenet/re
http://ofi.epoline.org/view/GetDo
Modiano is not paying the renewal fees, that is probably done by UNISYS themselves.
Patents on process --> crap
Patent on product --> okay
software patents -- urrgh!
Liberal economists reject the patent system at large.
Perhaps what the US needs now is an American FFII.US that wipes the lawyers out...
I had the same problem with XP: My scanner didn't work anymore because the company does not release a XP driver for this old scnner hardware. So I can run it under ME, I can run it under SuSe but not under XP thanks to closed source drivers.
Not really. Hope Novell will not interfere in SuSe's development. SuSe is a KDE distro and afaik it is not shipped with Ximian desktop. In Germany it's the consumer that decides, not trash talks of analysts.
i really don't understand why the Name Novell means so much to you. Who cares who is the owner of the shares?
I was angry about Miguel as they spread false news. I am used to unbiased information in the FOSS-World as far as not analysts are involved.
In my mind he is not trustworthy anymore.
Software patents ARE a real threat to Mono. FTC recently pushed for reform. It's now time for the USA to get rid of them. Patent attorneys will cry, but we know that its all crap.
Please help us in our EU campaign against software patents!
Miguel and Nat Friedmans are dangerous persons (low moral standards). They spread FUD about the KDE project and false news about their Novell role. Of course Suse 9.1 is shipped with KDE and not with Ximian Desktop. As easy as that. "Our customer rules".
http://kwiki.ffii.org/?Microsoft040602En Comments of FFII to this patent and link to the patent file Hartmut Pilch (president of ffii): This is not the kind of patent that we really need to be concerned about, because its main claims can be refuted with prior art. The real bad software patents are those that can not be weeded out with prior art. By granting the "double click" the US patent office has delivered one more among hundreds of thousands of examples which show that the patent examination system does not work for software. 10 years ago, patent offices and their supporters in the patent departments of IBM, AT&T etc claimed that software was just a "new technology" like any other, and that "bad patents" would soon be a thing of the past, thanks to new prior art search tools. But abstract ideas elude search tools, and software innovation is about abstraction. You just need to read the main claim of this Microsoft patent to realize this. It is a well known problem now and was well known in 1994, when the USPTO held its hearings. At that time, the big names of the US software industry, except for Microsoft, all disapproved of the USPTO's plans to legalise software patents, but the USPTO pressed ahead with its plans shortly after the hearing nonetheless. http://swpat.ffii.org/analysis/trivial/
That's a very good source of information!
thanks a lot.
American provide big business stories but it usually seems to be hot air. I don't care about big business as the community depends on a few people that actually do something.
I am not intrested in IBM urging SUN to gpl Java as IBM *easily* could provide assistence to the GNU Classpath project. And what about Jikes?
Or Nat Friedman's anti-KDE Fud machine. Novells Suse supports KDE and he will not change that committment.
Business stories may delight some reader, I found it rather unintresting.
I don't think that despite for propaganda reasons big business was of any real importance. When they want provide help it's letter stamp money for them. I would like to see a real committment, i.e. manpower, code and support. I am not intrested in campaigns from the PR office.
(While IBM's patent attorneys lobby in BXL for swpats...)
Egypt is a country full of experienced young men and women who know that Linux will have a huge boost on future technology and that they will lose when they stick to Windows and Unix. Linux is their great opportunity to get to the first row while Europe and the US is trapped by the proprietary lockin.
And: Egypt is an arabic country and you know the great Islamic culture and the strong sharia law is very similar to GPL rules. Only GPl software conforms.
And what objections are against SuSes YAST?
They will not go after The GIMP, they will hunt down for instance SuSe when their distro can be shipped. Then they reach an injunction from the court and cause very much trouble.
So there is only the political lobbying to get rid off swpats.
http://www.ffii.org.uk
Good, very good!
FFII did similar action against a Amazon patent earlier this year in Europe. Unfortunately I believe that the patent system must be fixed on a policy basis. Let's fix the patent system rather than playing theior games. I think it should not be our job to help to hunt down patents that shouldn't be granted and pay the fees of the patent industry. Software patents shall rather be stopped before they are issued by proper laws.
http://swpat.ffii.org
But why does Microsoft support software patents legislation. They should know it better.
Hoops?
So they will finally migrate to open source technology?
German Gov ITsecurity Agency BSI published a nice migration guide. I would like to see that on the other side of the Atlantic.