in response to the parent: yes, all the animal do things in self interest, but when the animals evolve a society is for the development and safety of the entire race first and themselves later.
someone described it much better but do not remember who or where
there are various degree of evolution of a social animal (man for example) - some think only of themselves - some are capable of self sacrifice for the sake of his child and family - some are capable of self sacrifice for the sake of the tribe or village - some for the city - some for the nation - some for the survival of his "race" or religion - some maybe for the sake of all of humanity (or human race)
I suppose the parent do not consider anything above the nation as worthy but fortunately some do.
because we are all on a single small planet with finite space and resources, a single environment (and maybe a failing environment control system).
it could be true that bothering to better the welfare of foreign nation has no immediate reward for you or your nation (or even worst be damaging), but that foreign nation is still on this world, his people problem will always be problems of the entire planet directly or indirectly (world economy destabilization, mass emigration, pandemic virus creation...) and your child or nephew may pay the price if not you.
just to repeat myself from other copyright posts...
the original copyright was a monopoly granted from the English crown to the corporation to avoid "pirating" independent printer.
the intent of the copyright adopted in the USA was to promote creation and innovation.
at this time everywhere the copyright is reverting to his original despicable form.
the time limit on copyright should only have one purpose, encourage creators of a good creation to produce other good product.
not make sure the retirement pension for his nephew
a professional sf book writer in many essays about copyright drm ecc evaluated that, for a professional book author a copyright of 40 years is about right (do not remember the eventual post mortem part but you should read all his essay yourself here: http://baens-universe.com/authors/Eric_Flint bottom first)
I'm with you about the fact that the bulk of the protection should to the authors and not the corporation who own them!!!!
I remember you that the case you describe was the center of the fud used for pushing the first huge copyright extention in history about 170 years ago...
your position is quite reasonable, but in this days and media ages...
many type of media and entertainment productions simply disappear after few (3-5) years period, at least in any reasonably accessible publication up to completely disappearance.
so copyright much longer than this could mean that a work of some worth simply disappear to oblivion, cutting the copyright limitation will encourage it's circulation and if of enough value it could make publicity for new works of the same author!
I couldn't speack about every branch of scientific research, but from here (italy unfortunately core of the catholic church) they oppose much about applying scientific findings for the betterment of mankind for example:
- condom to avoid venereal malady diffusion - contraception in general to avoid underage pregnancy and other cases of undesired child - artificial insemination to help family to have child when natural methods fail - abortion pill to avoid phisical intrusive abortion - ecc....
and if those were only for the faitfull, well, their choice, but when the vatican instigate italian politician (another nation!) to make law that prohibit those things to all italians comprised the majority that's christian only nominally or agnostic or atheist, well it's a problem!
there always were and always will be some people that take some content (music or film or book) for free (library, tv, public concert, lending, radios etc.)
this could have been an immediate loss in some case (exp when one see a bad film or hear a bad song before buying the cd or dvd and decide to not buy it!) or could be free pubblicity that make a huge profit in the future (for example when young i read tons of book from the public library, now that i have cash i bought many of the best and a lot more from the same autors)
the concept is that some free lunch always existed, and with modern technology it's so easy that there must be some changment in those industries.
that could be draconian DRM to try to maintain an old system that doesn't work anymore....
or could be some kind of restructuring that allow all law abiding citizens of the world to easily and quickly access to all the content they want and pay what they estimate it's worth for them, using the free copies as publicity for theirs product.
decidedly not an easy transition!
and if you think that 90% of the films and songs are propriety of only 3-4 distribution giants you could see where the problem is. there is only few cartel, not a market were more publicity of your product mean an huger share of the market so that someone could encourage this changeover
The UK functions almost entirely on unspoken agreements. We don't have an official constitution- but we do have an unspoken agreement that one is there, and that you're not allowed to change it (although political parties have wanted to do so plenty of times). We don't have protected constitutional rights- but we do have unspoken agreement that governments aren't allowed to repeal those rights that aren't there or else something bad might happen (and curiously enough, that one's always seemed to work).
The Queen very much exists in a state of perpetual unspoken agreement. Although technically we're all her property, we all agree not to make a fuss as long as she never tries to exert her ownership in any way (and she doesn't). Although technically she has supreme power of governance, we're all happy to ignore that fact for as long as no-one mentions it too loudly. Technically we can't oust her without violent revolution, but in actuality we all know that we can (as have many of her subjects in ex-Empire countries);
now I understud where terry pratchet had taken the form of government of lancree monarchy! there are some sentences in the 23th book of the diskword seried (carpe jugulum) that are about identical to the ones quoted above!
And I'm shocked that there are so many people here who believe "copyright" is anything but a land grab for those who cannot create.
that's because few know that copyright was born when the old corporation of the copyst found himself surrounded by more capable, independent printers, and so petitioned the king (of england) for a "copy right" for themselves only.
all things that follow are nothing more than a composition of this monopolistic vision.
as always when the argument of DRM and related matters come at hand i suggest everyone to read the essays of eric flint a sf writer and editor for one of the few on-line only sf magazines baen-univers
When Alfred Russell Wallace wrote Darwin about this new theory he was working on, Darwin suddenly got in a hurry to get his published first. If he hadn't we could have been celebrating a Wallace-year instead of a Darwin-year
not exactly.
the story goes (at least for what i remember of "the origin of the species" that i recently read) that darwin were working to his theory for some forty-fifty years, when he received this mail about practically identical ideas from wallace, then some friend of him insisted that he pubblish his theory before wallace do, but he insisted to clarify with wallace first, and wallace insisted that darwin pubblish his work (that contain some thousand of pages, cases and example to support his theory).
the final result is "the origin of the species" a quick exposition of his theory with some reference to the tons of material he collected and a thoroughly detailed introductory chapter with names and ideas of all who contributed to the ideas on the field, his grand father, lamark and wallace for example.
..... i do think we're implementing the tools totalitarian dicators dream of. I hope we manage to keep electing the right people.
electing the right people, yeah, like here in italy where the worst prime minister of all times just told that he want to change the constitution so that he does not have to have his emergency legislation submitted to the head of state signing.
that after he hastily made a law to prohibit to let die a poor person that has been in comatose state for last 17 years (not even eutanasia, simply cease the forced alimentation) law that was refused by the president because anti costitutional.
for you to formulate this conjecture, seems to me you are one of the innumerable people that does not know that in the last decade many accelerators already produced microscopic and extremely volatile black hole.
and know what? we are still here!
at least until ecological catastrophy provoked by global climate alteration, global war provoked by scarcity of resource, global epidemics owed to research in bacteriological weapon or other human production bring us to an end.
you really should not bother whit the LHC whit the other problems aroud...
it is to note that bot the parent and the grand parent are on the same front:
they both desire that there is no stigma nor pressure on the womens (and girls) that found themselves with an unexpected pregnancy
only one is referring to the social stigma and pressure to not abort and the other to the social stigma and pressure that attach to the teenage pregnant (and likely to the unmarried one in many location)
the solution is the same!
no stigma and no pressure, support for the women with the need to make a hard and informed decision and support afterward be it for returning to the usual life if she had aborted (surmounting the eventual trauma) or support in the long years of growing a child otherwise.
hope they could se it now, they were on the same front, only with emphasis to not be forced to make the one choice they find inappropriate.
Ummm... no. There are a statistically significant number of humans who aren't notably good at anything.
to be more precise a lot of people are not good at anything that we know and value, they could be good at stupid things (soccer strategy) and never know it, never make others know and certainly never apply it to something good.
but teoretically anyone could have some bright (but unuseful/unused) capacity.
There are numerous species of "dumb" creatures that can be trained to memorize some task and then mimic (repeat) it perfectly ad nauseum... including H. sapiens. An ability to memorize and mimic doesn't equate directly with intelligence. It's a precursor, a prerequisite, perhaps, but not the Real McCoy.
you forget a prerequisite of intelligence evolution, THE NEED FOR IT. if they could live their lives in a dumb way many lazy person never try to reach an higer lever of intelligence, never ever feel their lack of it!
A shocking number of humans, including many regarded as "average" by testing standards, never actually reach a state of true intelligence. Too many of them are profoundly ignorant and quite determined to remain that way.
the deepnes of their ignorance is an huge problem because they never perceive their ignorance, and many of the few that perceive it refuse to believe it and assault the condition that make them feel stupid.
that mean that berlusconi will never take huge paces versus the mafia (if not some to please them!)
it's a huge embarrasment that this kind of "man" reign over italy and expecially over the minds of the tons of weak willed and utterly uninformed italians
only hope he does not create more disaster to you all in his role of the G8.
it may be that i came from an entirely reversed tradition, here in italy only a few had any weapon at all an the majority came from a police force background or a hunter background (and a criminal background), legally acquiring a weapon is a long costly and frustrating experience.
but know what?
there are really, really, really few incident where a robber shoot some victim (mafia gang ws mafia gang is another chapter entirely)
when some jeweler started to respond pointing a pistol to the robber the number of armed robbery with serious incident largely increased
i'm sure that if i will be subject to a robbery i'll certainly like to have a gun to defend myself, but if every "customer" start to carry weapon the criminals will certainly start to shoot first and ask what's the bulge in your jacket is later...
about any software that manage the mouse wheel from the time of his invention had this amazing option that make you decide how much line of text you scroll every activation of the wheel, and all regardless of the magnification of the text!!!!!
sorry i completely failed to make clear that 90% of what i told about the book industry was from erik flint (that i read about skimming the posts just before seein the post i replied to)
he was a professional writer (in the league of 30-50+ book published) and an editor for baen-univers a sci-fi on lyne magazine so it has some first person knowledge about the argument
start from the first (in temporal order) they are a series of illuminating informations about DRM, copyright (history and actual application) and the book industry
by the way the same author think that 40 years of copyright are a good measure to keep professional writer well fed.
that same number of years does not necessarily apply to other fields (like videogames or films).
my post was not an endorsement of a criminal act, maybe an incentive to find an alternative method of feeding the author and the industry (in this order) that does not require infinite amount of years.
other media, like films (that are of the majors, not of the autors) or videogames (that after 10 years are practically unplayable by the majority of the new audience) could need quite a different approach!!!
that 40 years term is enough for a prolific book writer that's not in the top 10 but maybe in the top 100-200 of his genre to make a living of book writing, not needing to spend time in other work and so make him able to write more.
the luky one that strike a very good book but write no more is not a concern, good luck to him but copyright must not designed for him!
you promote those who continue to add significantly to humanity's culture but not pay a lifelong pay for a single hit.
Slashdot Mirror
the newspapers aren't widely readed in italy.
and the majority are much aligned with a political party.
so even who read something read usually a journal already aligned with his ideas...
rarely berlusca fans read journals not preaching him, and the majority simply see his TV...
a sad situation of 30 milion+ gullible ignorants...
in response to the parent: yes, all the animal do things in self interest, but when the animals evolve a society is for the development and safety of the entire race first and themselves later.
someone described it much better but do not remember who or where
there are various degree of evolution of a social animal (man for example)
- some think only of themselves
- some are capable of self sacrifice for the sake of his child and family
- some are capable of self sacrifice for the sake of the tribe or village
- some for the city
- some for the nation
- some for the survival of his "race" or religion
- some maybe for the sake of all of humanity (or human race)
I suppose the parent do not consider anything above the nation as worthy but fortunately some do.
because we are all on a single small planet with finite space and resources, a single environment (and maybe a failing environment control system).
it could be true that bothering to better the welfare of foreign nation has no immediate reward for you or your nation (or even worst be damaging),
but that foreign nation is still on this world, his people problem will always be problems of the entire planet directly or indirectly (world economy destabilization, mass emigration, pandemic virus creation...) and your child or nephew may pay the price if not you.
just to repeat myself from other copyright posts...
the original copyright was a monopoly granted from the English crown to the corporation to avoid "pirating" independent printer.
the intent of the copyright adopted in the USA was to promote creation and innovation.
at this time everywhere the copyright is reverting to his original despicable form.
the time limit on copyright should only have one purpose, encourage creators of a good creation to produce other good product.
not make sure the retirement pension for his nephew
a professional sf book writer in many essays about copyright drm ecc evaluated that, for a professional book author a copyright of 40 years is about right (do not remember the eventual post mortem part but you should read all his essay yourself here: http://baens-universe.com/authors/Eric_Flint bottom first)
I'm with you about the fact that the bulk of the protection should to the authors and not the corporation who own them!!!!
I remember you that the case you describe was the center of the fud used for pushing the first huge copyright extention in history about 170 years ago...
se this:
Macaulay on copyright law
http://www.baen.com/library/palaver4.htm
to see how it was rebutted.
and remember, know the history or you will repeat it!
your position is quite reasonable, but in this days and media ages...
many type of media and entertainment productions simply disappear after few (3-5) years period, at least in any reasonably accessible publication up to completely disappearance.
so copyright much longer than this could mean that a work of some worth simply disappear to oblivion, cutting the copyright limitation will encourage it's circulation and if of enough value it could make publicity for new works of the same author!
Insightfull +100
Predicting +100
sadly realized +1000 :(
I couldn't speack about every branch of scientific research, but from here (italy unfortunately core of the catholic church) they oppose much about applying scientific findings for the betterment of mankind for example:
- condom to avoid venereal malady diffusion
- contraception in general to avoid underage pregnancy and other cases of undesired child
- artificial insemination to help family to have child when natural methods fail
- abortion pill to avoid phisical intrusive abortion
- ecc....
and if those were only for the faitfull, well, their choice, but when the vatican instigate italian politician (another nation!) to make law that prohibit those things to all italians comprised the majority that's christian only nominally or agnostic or atheist, well it's a problem!
consider it this way:
there always were and always will be some people that take some content (music or film or book) for free (library, tv, public concert, lending, radios etc.)
this could have been an immediate loss in some case (exp when one see a bad film or hear a bad song before buying the cd or dvd and decide to not buy it!)
or could be free pubblicity that make a huge profit in the future (for example when young i read tons of book from the public library, now that i have cash i bought many of the best and a lot more from the same autors)
the concept is that some free lunch always existed, and with modern technology it's so easy that there must be some changment in those industries.
that could be draconian DRM to try to maintain an old system that doesn't work anymore....
or could be some kind of restructuring that allow all law abiding citizens of the world to easily and quickly access to all the content they want and pay what they estimate it's worth for them, using the free copies as publicity for theirs product.
decidedly not an easy transition!
and if you think that 90% of the films and songs are propriety of only 3-4 distribution giants you could see where the problem is.
there is only few cartel, not a market were more publicity of your product mean an huger share of the market so that someone could encourage this changeover
on our mailservers 97-98% of the mails are blocked by greylisting, of the remaining a considerable portion is still spam or virus carrier.
yesterday we had about 103000 incoming mail of what as much as 3000 where accepted by greylisting, after that there are the antispam and antivirus...
The UK functions almost entirely on unspoken agreements. We don't have an official constitution- but we do have an unspoken agreement that one is there, and that you're not allowed to change it (although political parties have wanted to do so plenty of times). We don't have protected constitutional rights- but we do have unspoken agreement that governments aren't allowed to repeal those rights that aren't there or else something bad might happen (and curiously enough, that one's always seemed to work).
The Queen very much exists in a state of perpetual unspoken agreement. Although technically we're all her property, we all agree not to make a fuss as long as she never tries to exert her ownership in any way (and she doesn't). Although technically she has supreme power of governance, we're all happy to ignore that fact for as long as no-one mentions it too loudly. Technically we can't oust her without violent revolution, but in actuality we all know that we can (as have many of her subjects in ex-Empire countries);
now I understud where terry pratchet had taken the form of government of lancree monarchy! there are some sentences in the 23th book of the diskword seried (carpe jugulum) that are about identical to the ones quoted above!
Yep....never had a GSM phone.
well, my phone has 5-6 year, and it use the sim card of the phone before that, so i could not understand how you do NOT KNOW of the sim card...
other side of the world maybe :)
really strange indeed, your opinion i mean :)
i thought there was some unusefull fighting and violence stuff
and a ton too much splatter and gore..
And I'm shocked that there are so many people here who believe "copyright" is anything but a land grab for those who cannot create.
that's because few know that copyright was born when the old corporation of the copyst found himself surrounded by more capable, independent printers, and so petitioned the king (of england) for a "copy right" for themselves only.
all things that follow are nothing more than a composition of this monopolistic vision.
as always when the argument of DRM and related matters come at hand i suggest everyone to read the essays of eric flint a sf writer and editor for one of the few on-line only sf magazines baen-univers
http://baens-universe.com/authors/Eric_Flint
at this page you all could read many illuminating essays about copyright and DRM mainly related to the book industry but not only
start from the bottom of the page and skip the editorial articles and the only story and you will have a series of illuminations on the topic!
When Alfred Russell Wallace wrote Darwin about this new theory he was working on, Darwin suddenly got in a hurry to get his published first. If he hadn't we could have been celebrating a Wallace-year instead of a Darwin-year
not exactly.
the story goes (at least for what i remember of "the origin of the species" that i recently read)
that darwin were working to his theory for some forty-fifty years, when he received this mail about practically identical ideas from wallace, then some friend of him insisted that he pubblish his theory before wallace do, but he insisted to clarify with wallace first, and wallace insisted that darwin pubblish his work (that contain some thousand of pages, cases and example to support his theory).
the final result is "the origin of the species" a quick exposition of his theory with some reference to the tons of material he collected and a thoroughly detailed introductory chapter with names and ideas of all who contributed to the ideas on the field, his grand father, lamark and wallace for example.
unfortunately i can't muster enough stamina to read all the statement form this AC, but if he whant an example of evolution he should read this
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14094-bacteria-make-major-evolutionary-shift-in-the-lab.html
an article about an evolution of a new genetic trait in bacteria, and it is a reproducible experiment!
that perhaps prove evolution?
..... i do think we're implementing the tools totalitarian dicators dream of. I hope we manage to keep electing the right people.
electing the right people, yeah, like here in italy where the worst prime minister of all times just told that he want to change the constitution so that he does not have to have his emergency legislation submitted to the head of state signing.
that after he hastily made a law to prohibit to let die a poor person that has been in comatose state for last 17 years (not even eutanasia, simply cease the forced alimentation)
law that was refused by the president because anti costitutional.
search englaro case for information.
for example this
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coma-womans-fate-left-in-berlusconis-hands-1604504.html
for you to formulate this conjecture, seems to me you are one of the innumerable people that does not know that in the last decade many accelerators already produced microscopic and extremely volatile black hole.
and know what?
we are still here!
at least until ecological catastrophy provoked by global climate alteration, global war provoked by scarcity of resource, global epidemics owed to research in bacteriological weapon or other human production bring us to an end.
you really should not bother whit the LHC whit the other problems aroud...
nothing new here, move along.
it is to note that bot the parent and the grand parent are on the same front:
they both desire that there is no stigma nor pressure on the womens (and girls) that found themselves with an unexpected pregnancy
only one is referring to the social stigma and pressure to not abort and the other to the social stigma and pressure that attach to the teenage pregnant (and likely to the unmarried one in many location)
the solution is the same!
no stigma and no pressure,
support for the women with the need to make a hard and informed decision
and support afterward be it for returning to the usual life if she had aborted (surmounting the eventual trauma) or support in the long years of growing a child otherwise.
hope they could se it now, they were on the same front, only with emphasis to not be forced to make the one choice they find inappropriate.
Ummm... no. There are a statistically significant number of humans who aren't notably good at anything.
to be more precise a lot of people are not good at anything that we know and value, they could be good at stupid things (soccer strategy) and never know it, never make others know and certainly never apply it to something good.
but teoretically anyone could have some bright (but unuseful/unused) capacity.
There are numerous species of "dumb" creatures that can be trained to memorize some task and then mimic (repeat) it perfectly ad nauseum... including H. sapiens. An ability to memorize and mimic doesn't equate directly with intelligence. It's a precursor, a prerequisite, perhaps, but not the Real McCoy.
you forget a prerequisite of intelligence evolution, THE NEED FOR IT.
if they could live their lives in a dumb way many lazy person never try to reach an higer lever of intelligence, never ever feel their lack of it!
A shocking number of humans, including many regarded as "average" by testing standards, never actually reach a state of true intelligence. Too many of them are profoundly ignorant and quite determined to remain that way.
the deepnes of their ignorance is an huge problem because they never perceive their ignorance, and many of the few that perceive it refuse to believe it and assault the condition that make them feel stupid.
that is the sad problem.
a little ting to add,
berlusconi already ceded to mafia's pizzo and menaces (if not been entirely his pawn) 35+ year ago, before it entered in politic,
the only proved (in tribunal) thing is that he accepted as stablemaster on his residence a mafia assassin...
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vittorio_Mangano for details.
that mean that berlusconi will never take huge paces versus the mafia (if not some to please them!)
it's a huge embarrasment that this kind of "man" reign over italy and expecially over the minds of the tons of weak willed and utterly uninformed italians
only hope he does not create more disaster to you all in his role of the G8.
for more info on berlusconi criminal career see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi#The_.22judicial_persecution.22
it may be that i came from an entirely reversed tradition, here in italy only a few had any weapon at all an the majority came from a police force background or a hunter background (and a criminal background), legally acquiring a weapon is a long costly and frustrating experience.
but know what?
there are really, really, really few incident where a robber shoot some victim (mafia gang ws mafia gang is another chapter entirely)
when some jeweler started to respond pointing a pistol to the robber the number of armed robbery with serious incident largely increased
i'm sure that if i will be subject to a robbery i'll certainly like to have a gun to defend myself, but if every "customer" start to carry weapon the criminals will certainly start to shoot first and ask what's the bulge in your jacket is later...
even better,
prior art example:
about any software that manage the mouse wheel from the time of his invention had this amazing option that make you decide how much line of text you scroll every activation of the wheel, and all regardless of the magnification of the text!!!!!
sorry i completely failed to make clear that 90% of what i told about the book industry was from erik flint (that i read about skimming the posts just before seein the post i replied to)
he was a professional writer (in the league of 30-50+ book published) and an editor for baen-univers a sci-fi on lyne magazine so it has some first person knowledge about the argument
on the argument of copyright origins, scope, problems and so on you really must read his quite regular column on
http://www.baens-universe.com/authors/Eric_Flint
about all his colums should be free reading
start from the first (in temporal order) they are a series of illuminating informations about DRM, copyright (history and actual application) and the book industry
by the way the same author think that 40 years of copyright are a good measure to keep professional writer well fed.
that same number of years does not necessarily apply to other fields (like videogames or films).
my post was not an endorsement of a criminal act, maybe an incentive to find an alternative method of feeding the author and the industry (in this order) that does not require infinite amount of years.
note that he talk of books and book autors.
other media, like films (that are of the majors, not of the autors) or videogames (that after 10 years are practically unplayable by the majority of the new audience) could need quite a different approach!!!
that 40 years term is enough for a prolific book writer that's not in the top 10 but maybe in the top 100-200 of his genre to make a living of book writing, not needing to spend time in other work and so make him able to write more.
the luky one that strike a very good book but write no more is not a concern, good luck to him but copyright must not designed for him!
you promote those who continue to add significantly to humanity's culture but not pay a lifelong pay for a single hit.