A project which seeks to 4-lane the 5800 km long "Golden Quadrilateral" (linkages between 4 major metros) has been in progress for the past five years and the new government is committed to continuing it.
It is my considered opinion that the editors of Slashdot deliberately post stories about India's achievements and their sole reason is to invite slashdotters to make fun of India.
Stories about China's achievements get applauded as "humankind's" achievements while the same about India are booed as someone trying to achieve high status. A projection's of the reader's thoughts is what it is.
You guys and girls don't even know the history of India and you don't know what a belief her people have in her "tryst with destiny" (Nehru's speech on midnight of India's independence). Why are these two things important? Because (a) history teaches us something. For those whose concept of ancient-ness is 200 years, this concept would probbaly have no meaning. Consider this, for most of its history, India was a rich country which was a subject of invasions and immigrations. It was called a "bird of gold." But Indians became complacent and gave more attention to arts, poetry (and probably sex - an ancestor of mine wrote Kamasutra). It got invaded so much that it was under non-Indians' rule for 1000 years.
And now when we develop nuclear weapons to prevent repeat of history, you history-less people have the gall to tell us we are wrong!
(b) we achieved higher things before and by doing technological innovation we are only going back to the same level, we don't aspire for any high frikkin status. That will come with time and accomplishments.
Here is the bottomline, take it or take it. We will continue to use technology. We will continue to develop further technology. We will continue to do whatever it takes us to protect the borders and peoples of India.
If you dislike it, close your eyes, stop reading about India, and keep licking China's a$$.
As an Indian I am happy to see this topic being discussed.
When I worked in India 10 years ago, it was common to see such ads. Some companies also asked for your marital status, the number of kids you have, and your driver's license number. There was no option but to provide this information.
Some pressure on them to discontinue such practices would be good.
Several years ago, we were using plain PCs as dumb terminals to a UNIX based system. One of the PCs developed a problem and the person who came to fix it(but couldn't) said that the PC probably had a virus in it. He couldn't answer the question of where was it living, since the PC had no hard-disk, only a floppy drive and 256 KB of RAM. Go figger!
In my experience of working in three different countries, there are three kinds of people: 1. People who work very hard and are heads and shoulders above others in productivity. There are very few such people. 2. People who work hard and are productive. 3. People who are seat-warmers. According to something I read yesterday, perhaps at slashdot, 71% of American workforce is like that, but I don't believe it.
The above three kinds of people exist everywhere, irrespective of the country.
That India didn't build up an infrastructure has nothing to do with lack of work or otherwise of Indians. It has something to do with bottled-up economy, the license-permit regime and several other factors. Now that this regime is in the process of being dismantled, infrastructure is being built rapidly. * See, for example, http://surajsphotos.fotopic.net/ for images of new roads and buildings being built in India. * Go to www.nhai.org, the website of National Highways authority of India to look at other projects. * Go to http://www.delhimetrorail.com/home/index.htm, to see how the Delhi Metro Rail project has made strides in the past years. * Here is some more about building of infrastructure in India: - AMP to raise $129m for India fund venture http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/09 /10761751 05694.html - http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2004/02/13/sto ries/2004021301210400.htm New Delhi , Feb. 12
THE country is poised for a grey revolution with the construction sector entering a boom phase to meet the demand for new highways, ports and real estate, according to the Union Commerce and Industry Minister, Mr Arun Jaitley. ---- If you are interested, I can give you more news about the boom in infrastructure development in India.
If Indians weren't hard-working, why would this be occurring?
If you pedal a bicycle rickshaw throughout a hot, dusty day ferrying passengers for a few cents, aren't you working hard?
If you work in fields, sowing and harvesting while the temperatures rise to 50 degree celsius, isn't that hard work?
If you hawk your wares on a bicycle or a cart amidst dense traffic, immense noise for a life time, isn't that hard work?
If you sit by roadside breaking stones with primitive pickaxes day after day, isn't that hard work?
And this is not specific to India, most developing countries have such work, and most developed countries too have the equivalent. Most humans are hard working.
http://www.siliconindia.com/shownewsdata.asp?new sn o=22785
The amount was 13.5 billion dollars.
US used to grant an aid of $25 million to India annually. That too was stopped when Congress got worked up over some issue. But India is now attracting investment, not aid. See the various projects underway here: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ubb/ultimateb b.php?u bb=forum;f=2
(The following is a generalization) The caste system may affect a lot of other things, but in my experience it doesn't affect your job. In Indian offices it is routine to see Sharmas (Pundits), working together with Rajputs (Kshtariyas or warriors) and Guptas (banias or traders).
People have all sorts of problems with each other, but rarely do you find someone saying that the other person is an a&&hole because he/she belongs to a different caste. They may privately attribute it to his/her different religion, if that person belongs to a different religion, especially if s/he belongs to a religion that's bashed about a lot these days.
Notice that I left out the lowest caste, the shudras. I have never seen people of other castes mingling with them openly or having lunch with them.
Temperatures in India range from -40 celsius to +50.
In the Northern part of India, we have extreme climate, but in the southern, where Bangalore in located, we have equable type of climate.
In the North, the mighty Himalayas and many hill stationsare relatively closer. You can go to these hill stations like the British used to do. Sometimes they had two capitals, one for summers and another for winter.
There are several scenic spots in Southern India. I have never been there, but tourists' accounts say that it is greener and cleaner. Kerala is a very beautiful place. It is ruled by Communists though.
Sports. India is crazy about cricket. It is like baseball except that you can hit the ball and choose not to run.
If the temperature is a low 38 degrees in April and you don't feel like working, you can always go out and play cricket.
Diet. Indian food is world renowned. However, lot of mixing (also known as adulteration) occurs. The net result is that you don't get to consume as much fat as you would in USA or Canada or UK. Therefore, you lose weight. Also, 365 days of sun per year ensures you become more tanned.
Imagine the combined effect of this. Once you go back home after a stint in India, girls are going to make a beeline for you.
As far back as in 1983 I had read in an Indian journal that Western researchers deliberately do not cite Indian sources. I don't know the reasons for that. But now if someone quotes the number of citations I'd take them with a bag of salt.
It is true that Western institutions are still leading the research and the scenario isn't likely to change in the next 20 years, but don't forget the head start they have had.
Also Indian research, at least in the area of weapons follows what Raj Chengappa in his book "Weapons of peace" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/817 2233302/qid=1075638879/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/002-53537 37-2500827?v=glance&s=books) calls "saw-toothed."
The explanations is as follows. India was denied many technologies by US and West. Indians developed many of these on their own. Then once Indians developed those, West would come up with an offer of using their technologies (which have already been productionalized and teething troubles sorted out) that Indians can't refuse. So the graph goes from highest to lowest in one step.
Now, another point that was made in one of the articles linked here was some Pharma company's research centre in Mumbai. They are producing the highest number of patents in the world.
So while your assessment may be true at this point in time - and it is important to remember that your assessment is a function of time - it will probably not be true in the future.
That doesn't mean that I foresee a mutually exclusive future for various nations and that one nation will prosper at the expense of others. There will be vigorous competition, and that can only be good.
Aha, I get it now. MS is advocating this so that people can outsource the URL typing to cheap labour in 3rd world countries. MS expects people to email their web-page requests to someone in India or China from where they will receive text pages without hyperlinks.
2. Class is an almost universally employed denominator in India that signifies a person's, actually, the family's amount of wealth.
For example, read the article
http://fecolumnists.expressindia.com/full_column.p hp?content_id=23147
found by a hurried search.
If a hurried search doesn't satisfy you, kindly navigate to http://www.ncaer.org/, the home page of National Council of Applied Economic Research of India and peruse the publications therein.
If formation of conclusions based on tedious collation of data is beyond your ken, please google for "India+middle+class" and see the almost ubiquitous synonymity of middle class and reasonable wealth, even amongst economists.
You are right to ask this question. But many people on/. form opinions on the basis of such statements. Many don't read the articles linked, many don't bother to get correct information even if a website is clearly listed and so on.
For example, many slashdotters believe that foreigners are not allowed to work in India on the basis of the news that an Indian company didn't want to hire a foreigner.
It was refuted by many Indians but the statement continues to be floated around.
So it was quite likely that someone would have concluded from the parent post that the attempt at humour was actually an attempt to hide the pain caused by reckless and callous people in India partying at the cost of American tax-payers.
By drawing attention to the conditions in India, I wanted to emphasize that our conditions are much worse than yours, that's all.
And no, my sense of humour is not outsourced. But I don't have a job and savings are going to run out soon. And that does affect my sense of humour.
Out of a population of 1 billion,
300 million = absolutely, wretchedly poor with barely enough to eat
300 million = low class, do menial jobs, earn wages just enough for two meals a day, probably send kids to govt. schools, but most probably make them work with them breaking stones, washing others' dishes, clothes, cars, etc.
250 to 300 million = middle class with cars, scooters, homes, and other "luxuries" of life.
Remaining = upper middle class to rich.
It is only the rich who can afford a Humvee, subject to govt. clearances and a 7 bedroom home.
For most others, it is either sleeping outside or in their 2-3 room home.
Please do not make fun of poverty or of poor people, whether in India or in USA.
Your last sentence about 'time' is important, for only time will tell whether your records are safe or not.
You seem to assume that India will go the Pakistan way.
I like to hope that it doesn't.
Indian priorities are different. India really, really wants to develop and attract business. If you have been following news the last few weeks you might have noticed that India has signed important trade multiplication agreements with ASEAN (that's Association of South East Asian Nations) and individual countries. India has recently signed an agreement with Sri Lanka for free trade.
Such events [of identity release], if they were to occur, would be considered extremely negative for India and I hope and believe that strict action will be taken, if at all they occur.
Moreover, by your own admission, there are those who are willing to pay bribes even in the US. Even in the US, identities are spoofed and usurped. The only difference is the price paid. Telemarketers fleece elderly citizens of millions every year. It is not that such things do not happen in the US.
The point of saying all this is that - what happens statistically? I mean if 100 counts of a product are sold and 5 are returned that means that overall profits were made. But if 20 or above were returned that means there's something seriously wrong.
Similarly, the companies offshoring their work will weigh all their options. "Hmmm, there's a loss of x million dollars due to this and that, including crime in US, but in India, the loss is only x thousand dollars, so I'll move it to India."
In this example, I'm presenting India as the lesser of the two evils - US and India, but in reality, the executive will also do profit analysis, loss due to image problems, etc. before reaching a conclusion. In other words, there will be several factors at work before a decision to offshore or not is taken.
Another thing to remember is that it is very easy for the Americans to assume that Pakistanis and Indians are same. But Indians are different from Pakistanis. Out education, culture, priorities, outlook on life etc. are different. We only look the same.
So just because a Pakistani has done something doesn't mean that an Indian will do it too. But humans being what they are, let me cover all bases by adding "doesn't necessarily mean":)
Slashdot Mirror
But no chance of roads getting better.
Here are some pictures of modern highways http://surajsphotos.fotopic.net/ .
A project which seeks to 4-lane the 5800 km long "Golden Quadrilateral" (linkages between 4 major metros) has been in progress for the past five years and the new government is committed to continuing it.
Here is a comprehensive discussion on Indian roads. http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php ?t=75
On the main page of the previous site, you will find threads of discussion on India's infrastructure, telecom, etc., i.e., on this page http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php ?f=2&sid=7623067261caec98cadfdd4c9950e47c
Hope that helps.
It is my considered opinion that the editors of Slashdot deliberately post stories about India's achievements and their sole reason is to invite slashdotters to make fun of India.
Stories about China's achievements get applauded as "humankind's" achievements while the same about India are booed as someone trying to achieve high status. A projection's of the reader's thoughts is what it is.
You guys and girls don't even know the history of India and you don't know what a belief her people have in her "tryst with destiny" (Nehru's speech on midnight of India's independence). Why are these two things important? Because
(a) history teaches us something. For those whose concept of ancient-ness is 200 years, this concept would probbaly have no meaning. Consider this, for most of its history, India was a rich country which was a subject of invasions and immigrations. It was called a "bird of gold." But Indians became complacent and gave more attention to arts, poetry (and probably sex - an ancestor of mine wrote Kamasutra). It got invaded so much that it was under non-Indians' rule for 1000 years.
And now when we develop nuclear weapons to prevent repeat of history, you history-less people have the gall to tell us we are wrong!
(b) we achieved higher things before and by doing technological innovation we are only going back to the same level, we don't aspire for any high frikkin status. That will come with time and accomplishments.
Here is the bottomline, take it or take it.
We will continue to use technology.
We will continue to develop further technology.
We will continue to do whatever it takes us to protect the borders and peoples of India.
If you dislike it, close your eyes, stop reading about India, and keep licking China's a$$.
"ultimately there will be one person doing all the work" ... outsourcing taken to its extreme.
That's where it will all end.
They may need less, but they don't need fewer.
As an Indian I am happy to see this topic being discussed.
When I worked in India 10 years ago, it was common to see such ads. Some companies also asked for your marital status, the number of kids you have, and your driver's license number. There was no option but to provide this information.
Some pressure on them to discontinue such practices would be good.
Several years ago, we were using plain PCs as dumb terminals to a UNIX based system. One of the PCs developed a problem and the person who came to fix it(but couldn't) said that the PC probably had a virus in it. He couldn't answer the question of where was it living, since the PC had no hard-disk, only a floppy drive and 256 KB of RAM. Go figger!
money != happiness AND !money = !happiness
Both are true.
- A one-year unemployed programmer
Question: If you take viruses or bacteria from Earth's extreme regions and leave them on Mars, will they survive?
In my experience of working in three different countries, there are three kinds of people:
9 /10761751 05694.htmlo ries/2004021301210400.htm
1. People who work very hard and are heads and shoulders above others in productivity. There are very few such people.
2. People who work hard and are productive.
3. People who are seat-warmers. According to something I read yesterday, perhaps at slashdot, 71% of American workforce is like that, but I don't believe it.
The above three kinds of people exist everywhere, irrespective of the country.
That India didn't build up an infrastructure has nothing to do with lack of work or otherwise of Indians. It has something to do with bottled-up economy, the license-permit regime and several other factors. Now that this regime is in the process of being dismantled, infrastructure is being built rapidly.
* See, for example, http://surajsphotos.fotopic.net/ for images of new roads and buildings being built in India.
* Go to www.nhai.org, the website of National Highways authority of India to look at other projects.
* Go to http://www.delhimetrorail.com/home/index.htm, to see how the Delhi Metro Rail project has made strides in the past years.
* Here is some more about building of infrastructure in India:
- AMP to raise $129m for India fund venture
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/0
- http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2004/02/13/st
New Delhi , Feb. 12
THE country is poised for a grey revolution with the construction sector entering a boom phase to meet the demand for new highways, ports and real estate, according to the Union Commerce and Industry Minister, Mr Arun Jaitley.
----
If you are interested, I can give you more news about the boom in infrastructure development in India.
If Indians weren't hard-working, why would this be occurring?
If you pedal a bicycle rickshaw throughout a hot, dusty day ferrying passengers for a few cents, aren't you working hard?
If you work in fields, sowing and harvesting while the temperatures rise to 50 degree celsius, isn't that hard work?
If you hawk your wares on a bicycle or a cart amidst dense traffic, immense noise for a life time, isn't that hard work?
If you sit by roadside breaking stones with primitive pickaxes day after day, isn't that hard work?
And this is not specific to India, most developing countries have such work, and most developed countries too have the equivalent. Most humans are hard working.
What do you think there was to use for bait and for whom?
Be careful. It is a all nice and well that the so-called weaker sex can handle it. But if it gets that chick "stigma", Linux goes the way of Dodo.
to Canada.
w sn o=22785
b b.php?u bb=forum;f=2
http://www.siliconindia.com/shownewsdata.asp?ne
The amount was 13.5 billion dollars.
US used to grant an aid of $25 million to India annually. That too was stopped when Congress got worked up over some issue. But India is now attracting investment, not aid. See the various projects underway here:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ubb/ultimate
(The following is a generalization)
The caste system may affect a lot of other things, but in my experience it doesn't affect your job. In Indian offices it is routine to see Sharmas (Pundits), working together with Rajputs (Kshtariyas or warriors) and Guptas (banias or traders).
People have all sorts of problems with each other, but rarely do you find someone saying that the other person is an a&&hole because he/she belongs to a different caste. They may privately attribute it to his/her different religion, if that person belongs to a different religion, especially if s/he belongs to a religion that's bashed about a lot these days.
Notice that I left out the lowest caste, the shudras. I have never seen people of other castes mingling with them openly or having lunch with them.
For those who are considering moving to India.
Temperatures in India range from -40 celsius to +50.
In the Northern part of India, we have extreme climate, but in the southern, where Bangalore in located, we have equable type of climate.
In the North, the mighty Himalayas and many hill stationsare relatively closer. You can go to these hill stations like the British used to do. Sometimes they had two capitals, one for summers and another for winter.
There are several scenic spots in Southern India. I have never been there, but tourists' accounts say that it is greener and cleaner. Kerala is a very beautiful place. It is ruled by Communists though.
Sports.
India is crazy about cricket. It is like baseball except that you can hit the ball and choose not to run.
If the temperature is a low 38 degrees in April and you don't feel like working, you can always go out and play cricket.
Diet.
Indian food is world renowned. However, lot of mixing (also known as adulteration) occurs. The net result is that you don't get to consume as much fat as you would in USA or Canada or UK. Therefore, you lose weight. Also, 365 days of sun per year ensures you become more tanned.
Imagine the combined effect of this. Once you go back home after a stint in India, girls are going to make a beeline for you.
It is true that Western institutions are still leading the research and the scenario isn't likely to change in the next 20 years, but don't forget the head start they have had.
Also Indian research, at least in the area of weapons follows what Raj Chengappa in his book "Weapons of peace" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/817 2233302/qid=1075638879/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/002-53537 37-2500827?v=glance&s=books) calls "saw-toothed."
The explanations is as follows. India was denied many technologies by US and West. Indians developed many of these on their own. Then once Indians developed those, West would come up with an offer of using their technologies (which have already been productionalized and teething troubles sorted out) that Indians can't refuse. So the graph goes from highest to lowest in one step.
Now, another point that was made in one of the articles linked here was some Pharma company's research centre in Mumbai. They are producing the highest number of patents in the world.
So while your assessment may be true at this point in time - and it is important to remember that your assessment is a function of time - it will probably not be true in the future.
That doesn't mean that I foresee a mutually exclusive future for various nations and that one nation will prosper at the expense of others. There will be vigorous competition, and that can only be good.
Boycott Microsoft!
Indians don't question authority???? Which Indians are you talking about?
Indians have problems operating without it??? India is the only place where one can flout all the rules all the time in the world.
Next time go to India before making a comment.
That's false.
Foreigners are allowed to work in India.
They need a work permit. That's all.
I personally know of many foreigners working in India.
I am not American.
I talk funny, I walk funny, I code funny.
I put 'only' after every sentence only.
I have no leadership qualities. I do as I am told.
No, I am not confusing India with Indiana. I know that India is composed of all Carribean islands.
2. Class is an almost universally employed denominator in India that signifies a person's, actually, the family's amount of wealth.
For example, read the article http://fecolumnists.expressindia.com/full_column.p hp?content_id=23147
found by a hurried search.
If a hurried search doesn't satisfy you, kindly navigate to http://www.ncaer.org/, the home page of National Council of Applied Economic Research of India and peruse the publications therein.
If formation of conclusions based on tedious collation of data is beyond your ken, please google for "India+middle+class" and see the almost ubiquitous synonymity of middle class and reasonable wealth, even amongst economists.
You are right to ask this question. But many people on /. form opinions on the basis of such statements. Many don't read the articles linked, many don't bother to get correct information even if a website is clearly listed and so on.
For example, many slashdotters believe that foreigners are not allowed to work in India on the basis of the news that an Indian company didn't want to hire a foreigner.
It was refuted by many Indians but the statement continues to be floated around.
So it was quite likely that someone would have concluded from the parent post that the attempt at humour was actually an attempt to hide the pain caused by reckless and callous people in India partying at the cost of American tax-payers.
By drawing attention to the conditions in India, I wanted to emphasize that our conditions are much worse than yours, that's all.
And no, my sense of humour is not outsourced. But I don't have a job and savings are going to run out soon. And that does affect my sense of humour.
Out of a population of 1 billion, 300 million = absolutely, wretchedly poor with barely enough to eat
300 million = low class, do menial jobs, earn wages just enough for two meals a day, probably send kids to govt. schools, but most probably make them work with them breaking stones, washing others' dishes, clothes, cars, etc.
250 to 300 million = middle class with cars, scooters, homes, and other "luxuries" of life.
Remaining = upper middle class to rich.
It is only the rich who can afford a Humvee, subject to govt. clearances and a 7 bedroom home.
For most others, it is either sleeping outside or in their 2-3 room home.
Please do not make fun of poverty or of poor people, whether in India or in USA.
We don't want them answering ads for viagra, now do we?
If I remember correctly, one of the chief characters in that movie was an Indian. Kept saying "yaar" (buddy) all the time.
You seem to assume that India will go the Pakistan way.
I like to hope that it doesn't.
Indian priorities are different. India really, really wants to develop and attract business. If you have been following news the last few weeks you might have noticed that India has signed important trade multiplication agreements with ASEAN (that's Association of South East Asian Nations) and individual countries. India has recently signed an agreement with Sri Lanka for free trade.
Such events [of identity release], if they were to occur, would be considered extremely negative for India and I hope and believe that strict action will be taken, if at all they occur.
Moreover, by your own admission, there are those who are willing to pay bribes even in the US. Even in the US, identities are spoofed and usurped. The only difference is the price paid. Telemarketers fleece elderly citizens of millions every year. It is not that such things do not happen in the US.
The point of saying all this is that - what happens statistically? I mean if 100 counts of a product are sold and 5 are returned that means that overall profits were made. But if 20 or above were returned that means there's something seriously wrong.
Similarly, the companies offshoring their work will weigh all their options. "Hmmm, there's a loss of x million dollars due to this and that, including crime in US, but in India, the loss is only x thousand dollars, so I'll move it to India."
In this example, I'm presenting India as the lesser of the two evils - US and India, but in reality, the executive will also do profit analysis, loss due to image problems, etc. before reaching a conclusion. In other words, there will be several factors at work before a decision to offshore or not is taken.
Another thing to remember is that it is very easy for the Americans to assume that Pakistanis and Indians are same. But Indians are different from Pakistanis. Out education, culture, priorities, outlook on life etc. are different. We only look the same.
So just because a Pakistani has done something doesn't mean that an Indian will do it too. But humans being what they are, let me cover all bases by adding "doesn't necessarily mean" :)