Slashdot Mirror
XP Starter Edition Examined
de la mettrie writes "C-Net reports that analysts do not recommend using Microsoft's new 'Windows XP Starter Edition', a low-cost XP version aimed at the Asian market (and previously covered on Slashdot). The report notes that numerous networking features are removed, and the Starter Edition allows only three applications to be run concurrently. According to Microsoft, this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'"
Starter Edition allows only three applications to be run concurrently. According to Microsoft, this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'"
MWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
http://www.mac.com/
...is what Microsoft is trying to do with this release. It's obvious it won't help at all to stem the flow of pirate copies of the full version of XP, it certainly won't sell to businesses, and it'd be suicide for any hardware manufacturer to use it as their pre-loaded OS.
"..this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'"
This new user base may be overseas, but they aren't retarded.
People needed analysts to tell them this? Amazing...
Disconnect and self-destruct, one bullet at a time.
That's amazing. It's like Microsoft is saying "well, it's a cheap version. You can't expect them to understand everything Windows does, do you?"
Take your pick: racist or classist. Thanks, Microsoft!
-- Bill "Houdini" Weiss
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/15/162 2254
Microsoft went on to proclaim the security benefits of this latest release: "Only three instances of worms, spyware, and trojans can run at once!"
...it's a non starter.
According to Microsoft, this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'"
Because the poor, simple peoples of Asia can't handle the complexities of the full versions of Windows XP? I, for one, am offended.
According to Microsoft, this limitation `helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'
Microsoft's new product: MS-DOS Reloaded?
Banu
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/15/162225 4
B:MAH SCREN LOKS R3AL BIG AND UGLY11!!!11! OMG AND Y CANT I RUN AIM OUTLOK AND SURF PORN AT DA SME TIEM??!!? OMG LOL AND MAH N3TWORK IS ACTNG UP!!!! WTF AND W3 AL R TEH SAME DESKTOP!1!1! OMG
-- "I'm not a religious man, but if you're up there, save me Superman..."
Isn't this in their mission statement or something?
http://www.apple.com/
My bad on that .mac thing....
I guess they are saving money by not filling as much of the CD :)
"this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'" When we say less is more, we mean less is more. It's XP with less for the poor. Doubleplus good application three makes XP the OS you need. You have less so you don't need more. Don't tweak the registry, you filthy whore!
Gartner is always 100%, can't fail, rigt on target when it comes to stating the blindingly obvious.
SCO employee? Check out the bounty
I wonder how much they'll sell the upgrade, that allows you to 5 applications at once, will cost.
According to Microsoft, this limitation "helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion."
:)
Anyone willing to take bets on how many posts making bad puns about this statement will be modded insightful instead of funny?
I love Slashdot, really.
~Tirinal
I am getting kind of sick of this...
Laughable. Suggested headline: Microsoft turns its flagship product into another "Microsoft Bob".
If it includes SP2, I assume it's fundamentally the same OS with bolted on restrictions.
Next thing you know, GM will release car for £2000 less but with all gears above 2nd glued up.
A "starter" edition that only lets you run 3 apps while crippling the network features? Are they , MS, trying to encourage people to rip off their software or run off to the competition in droves!?
Why even bother producing something as crappy as this and then market it to a region of the world where there is already full access to the full version!?
At this point, I wouldn't even look at the price of the software. Why _pay_ for a crippled operating system that all of your software depends on when you can _pay_ for a fully functional operating system or just get one free ala Linux/BSD/etc?
What's next? A lower priced version of windows that has more bugs and security holes in it? What will that be called? Windows: Security Lite. Less security and more bugs to not confuse the virii and worms out there. Should probably even have a startup logo to the effect of "You're Screwed".
I'm just flabbergasted that the carp keeps coming out of that company...
*shakes head* I pray that they don't EVER get into the weapons business.... ~ you didn't pay your licensing fees, so your missle defense system will be down for the next 12 hours while we sort this out... btw, we'll be notifying our foreign shareholders of this...unless you would be willing to pay a maintenance fee while you wait for your license payment to clear....~
Winged Power Photography
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
While the basic user probably doesn't need to run more than three apps at a time (say, browse the web while eding a doc in Office + having an MP3 file playing in the background), are there any bets how long it will be before there is a patch out to allow more than 3 apps open at a time? =)
Korea, for one, is full of cybercafes running legit copies of XP, SE is likely aimed at rural China. Keep in mind that this software might hit the spot for educational systems.
--
"pain is weakness leaving the body."I've just developed the Ultimate Operating System. It further reduces confusion among users by issuing a HALT instruction right after a bare minimum startup. I've successfully tested it under x86 and x86-84, and I'm looking for PowerPC 32/64 developers. GNU GPL license. Most compact kernel ever (I call it vendeko-kernel). And no problems with drivers, since it doesn't need them!
Try Ubuntu GNU/Linux, it's great!!!
"...the Starter Edition allows only three applications to be run concurrently..."
That'll be a couple of SSH terminal sessions and some FTPing then - enough to manage your Linux servers running some decent apps!
AT&ROFLMAO
Looks like a nice marketing technique. Sell them a cheap version of windows. Upgrades will be very simple for Microsoft. Microsoft just has to add features it already has in the standard version.
Mark
"Starter Edition allows only three applications to be run concurrently. According to Microsoft, this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'"
Hm, so that is to say that it keeps you from starting another instead of merely crashing like the copy on my desktop?
:-)
-JT
Starcraft is mandatory everywhere in Asia........ KEKEKEKE OMG ZERGRUSH ^_____^
(jk!)
Are they worried about them being re-exported? If so, they should not cripple the functionality, but cripple the languages. Make it so that all the menus text boxes etc. are only in one language(that cannot be changed). I doubt people in the US want Thai menus etc. They should still be allowed to type in other languages though.
Microsoft would do well to learn from IBM's mistakes (PCJr) as well as IBM's successes (FUD).
3 Apps? "That's just stupid", as Dib would say. Linux cannot fail to win a "desktop readiness" comparison with such an abysmal product! Hell, my 1990 Amiga would win such a comparison!
Having just one working leg is better than two.. because it prevents you from running around indiscriminately and falling over and getting run over.
.. some might just need one application... some might need 20. Not everyone's mentally handicapped u know.
Clue: Let the admins and users figure it out
M$ pays HP and Dell to display stuff like these
.
'Dell/HP recommends windoze XP' even it sucks as desktop.
Appartment threading is still there
Windoze just a glorified DOS.
Or in other words: FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
Maybe it's targeted at those people still hanging on to WinME, which was lucky to run ONE app at a time...
According to Microsoft, this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion
That reminds me of a Logitech wireless mouse I just bought. The outside of the package said in bold letters "Power Saving On/Off Switch". Seems Microsoft marketing is doing the same thing.
if Microsoft actually believes their own press.
According to Microsoft, this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'
It is kind of obvious that Gartner does!
[from the linked Gartner article]
Microsoft should be commended for its efforts in simplification for first-time users.
Yeah, riiiight! On both counts!
Am I missing something here, or is this some sort of elaborate joke?
Far from reducing confusion, I think this release will harm Microsoft's image in the far east. Considering just how crippled this version is, $39 or whatever it's being sold for is really far too much. Hooray, a tenth of the features for only half the price. This will clearly harden their image over there as being overpriced.
As for the three application limit being to simplify things for the users, what are they smoking? What makes them think that just because the users are first time customers, they've never used a computer before? Of course they have, with pirated copies of XP Pro, or Linux of course. This crippleware will fool nobody.
Still, at least we can be thankful that the guys at MS still haven't got a clue how to deal with the rise of Linux and friends. I'm frankly baffled at how they came up with this idea in the first place.
Personally, I'm all in favour of poison-pill Windows Update deliveries for unlicensed copies of Windows. I'm quite sure they've thought of that one, but quickly ruled it out because it'd end up harming their monopoly, and that's all they have to hold onto really.
Like tinyurl, but one letter less! http://qurl.co.uk/
I laughed at Windows ME during beta, it was the most bloated and crappy piece of junk ever... but did that stop Microsoft from selling OEM copies to manufacturers and even retail upgrades through advertising? Nope... Windows ME sold 250,000 RETAIL copies in the first four days and OEM copies were bundled with computers from most manufacturers for a long time.
While I hope that starter edition will fail like nothing has failed before, frankly I think MS will be able to brainwash the masses once again.
- init
- getty (one instance)
- login (which execs into bash)
And boy, was it worth it: I no longer have to answer any questions about GNOME, mounting a USB pen drive, modem drivers. why KOffice messes up the PowerPoint presentation he's trying to read, why he can't run those funkyBut hey, I know he's going to learn, and will eventually outgrow StarterLinux(tm). I've let him know that once he's got the hang of this he can $$upgrade$$ to Full-On-Whiz-Bang Linux. In fact, if he wants to send the money to me I'll even order it for him.
Carousel is a lie!
This one always sticks in my mind: "Employees will be leased and branded in order to improve morale!"
"Microsoft: Where don't you want to go today?"
--You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
the title of the linked Gartner article:
Windows XP Starter Edition Shows Good Intent, Poor Execution
As far as I am concerned, this applies to every version of Windows!
You can only have three apps concurrently? Fine, let one of them be Cygwin's X server. You can run as much crap as you want in that.
Actually, come to think of it, wouldn't that make this restriction kind of useless? How do they limit the number of apps you can run? What if one of the three apps you ran was just a file browser that you could point at your other apps, and it would exec() them as child processes or however Windows thinks of it, thus allowing you to launch as many apps as you wanted? It seems like however they implemented it, this restriction would be very easy to circumvent.
Getting back your support for "file and print sharing and local area networks" wouldn't be so easy though... unless you did the Cygwin thing and ran samba ^_^
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Just look at the quote. Microsoft originally said, "the limitations helps [those pitiful wastes of resources who use our software] stay organized and reduces confusion."
Media kindly substituted in "[users]".
Now a "smart" consulting company will be able to
show that Windows has even lower TCO.
With only one application running it's even less confusing!
I'm used to Gartner producing reports that are so far removed from reality that the only conclusion I could draw was that they were mainlinking Microsoft kool-aid. But this report, while some of its logic seems out of joint, actually comes to a conclusion that makes sense.
Is this a sign that they're moving away from being pure Microsoft cheerleaders?
I mean, if I'm running Kazaa, BitTorrent, and IRC, that should be it. If I open more file-sharing things, I might forget what file came from where!
To see the forest through the trees.
This is not a move by MS to make Windows avaliable to those from countries with a lower purchasing power parity.
This is a move by MS to say, "Well, we CAN blame them for pirating our XP Pro, because we did make XP (cheapo version) avaliable, and THEY, the bastards, decided to pirate XP Pro anyways."
Good cop, Bad cop. Now they can send in the jackbooted thugs with a clean conscious, or, at least, a slightly less dismal public relations 'spin'.
3 Apps? Please. Absurd. Ridiculous.
MS spent far more time making sure that no one would be interested in running XcheaP, so us, in the rest of the world, wouldn't get a lightweight XP.
Think about it--- XP, with all the cruft stripped out? And cheaper, to boot?
Just a pedal to the medal operating system capable of running the apps I want, instead of the apps MS thinks I should be running?
Hah. Right. Need to lay off the crack.
Glad none of the 8 computers in my home, or the computers I maintain in the office, run windows anymore.
Screw this nonsense. I laugh at your outrage. Between Linux/Mac OS X, I can do anything I need to do.
Cheers,
WhiteWolf
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
Why use this over a pirated version of XP Home/Pro?
Well well, never expected to see _this_ sort of thing rear its ugly head again, at least on the desktop. To clarify, when buying N * SCO seats, you limit yourself to that number of sessions: your total of telnets, ftps, xdm logins and rsh sessions is N.
Of course, this was circumvented by installing free versions of telnetd etc., which enabled our users to login however many times they wanted. Expect the same to happen with XP's Castrati Edition as well.
So, a box can only have one worm and two spyware programs? Sweet.
User doesn't notice worm. Check.
User is annoyed by one set up ads. Check
User clicks yes and installs something else. Check.
User can't run MS Office. Awesome.
I only have to get rid of 3 things.
Rinse and Repeat as necessary.
Why can't we get this here. Or at least post the registry hacks so I can limit user functionality too.
"..this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'"
well, when I was developing apps in windows 3.1 days, I open at least 5 apps.
The starter edition can REALLY reduces my confusion. The word "Linux" is blinking in my head.
..something to the effect of "If Micro$oft made cars..."
Move sig now.
If Crippleware is limited software then what is a good name for a crippled operating system? CrippleOS doesn't sound very catchy. GimpOS? Anyone have a better term for this?
Yes, MS is engaging in Orwellian doublespeak by saying that the task limitation will help people... however, they may very well be right.
I've noticed just two "WinIdiot" patterns of task handling:
1) Start Word. Type some stuff. Realize you want to view a Web page. QUIT WORD. Run IE. Do what you wanna do. Maybe copy and paste, if you're that Clueful. QUIT IE. Run Word. Realize you want to check your email. QUIT WORD. Run Outlook. Read email. Catch virus. QUIT OUTLOOK. Run Word...
1) Start Word. Type some stuff. Realize you want to view a Web page. SAVE WORK. RUN IE. Do what you wanna do. Maybe copy and paste, if you're that Clueful. KEEP IE OPEN. RUN WORD AGAIN. Type some more. Realize you want to check your mail. KEEP WORD OPEN. RUN OUTLOOK. Check mail. Want to type more in Word. RUN WORD AGAIN...
Eventually, you have a bajillion copies of Word running at once...
Or, in other words, (1)-type people don't realize a computer CAN multitask (don't even get me started on how they don't realize stuff in the taskbar constitutes multitasking.), and (2)-type people don't realize that every time you run something, it eats up more RAM... so they end up with 12 copies of Word running at once...
* (WinIdiot: computer-illiterate person, who runs Windows, and who doesn't even WANT to learn how to be better computer users-- sometimes, they've been using computers for 20 years, but they're still just as clueless as the day they started)
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
Oh god, the racism...
Microsoft to Asia: "Brown people are easily confused."
Can we play games with this ? If yes then it's perfect for a dual-boot system.
This release wasn't designed to be used.
It was designed to be issued with computers which otherwise would have had a government-endorsed Linux system preinstalled: Something Microsoft would sink to any depths to prevent
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
In all its glorious greenness :)
Although XPSE ships with XP Service Pack 2 installed, Microsoft has failed to address security issues, such as providing antivirus software and distributing patches and security fixes without reliance on slow, expensive connections, as well as materials educating users on security risks.
A whole continent full of sleeping zombie machines just waiting to slow us all down. Thanks, Gates. You're a star.
Resistance is futile. Reactance buggers it up.
Yeah, because when people hear what a piece of shit it is, they won't be confused about whether they should buy it or just pirate the 'real' WinXP-- they'll just go right for the w4r3z purveyors.
Are they , MS, trying to encourage people to rip off their software
Could be. Bill Gates has always had a bee in his bonnet about piracy, but there have clearly been people at Microsoft who understood that a significant amount of the people pirating their products would be using cheaper competitor's products otherwise. Each pirated copy of Windows is one fewer copies of OS/2 or BeOS or Linux or whatever their closest-credible-competitor is.
This is in my mind the greatest damage piracy does... when there's a single dominant product in a market, it magnifies the effect of that monopoly.
So Microsoft may be expecting people to buy Windows XP Starter Edition and install a pirated copy of Windows XP Home instead. That way they get a bit of revenue, where there would be none, and they get actual sales figures so they can tout their market penetration, and the buyer gets a real box with a Microsoft logo on it they can show to anyone who asks.
I don't think the INTENT of this product was either racist or classist.
I think the INTENT was to cripple an inexpensive version of Windows in order to preserve the profit margin on the full version.
Now, they had a problem explaining why the crippled version was crippled without admitting the reason was the profit margin protection.
Their spin sounds either racist or classist.
It sounds like a good idea, I've read about companies who have moved to linux and were able to only install the minimum number of applications on a computer. In a corporate enviroment, an employee could only run three things, virus-protection, the application they're supposed to run and e-mail. It also sounds like a boon for gamers, most high-end gaming rigs only come with XP-home because gamers don't need the chaff.
If it were available without requring registration and a reasonable price ~$30-$40, it sounds like a good alternative to linux users who occasionally want to play a game or MUST use windows for a unique application or a IE-only site.
It makes sense to me, although I'd hate for it to be the only OS on my PC.
...until someone figures out what to change in the registry to the remove the 3-app limit? You'd think they would have learned not to do this after NT4 (or was it 2K?).
solution to web popup windows. "...and the Starter Edition allows only three applications to be run concurrently" Though not very effective. Less clutter but now it eats up all your available runable program slots on the task bar. DOH!
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
According to Microsoft, this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'"
OK, so Windows XP Home is confusing to use then?
Can we expect this new clever feature in Longhorn?
*sigh*
Don't they even think before talking?
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Darn, I got Sasser, Blaster, and Netsky running. Now I can't play the sims.
This move is a sure bet to get Asian companies to start choosing Linux like Kanotix
E R-07-2004-A.iso.torrent
Bittorrent Rules
http://kanotix.com/files/kanotix/KANOTIX-BUG-HUNT
Guess all that crashing in similar instances in past releases was a "feature" after all.
It's official: XP Lite Replaces XP Home as "most neutered OS".
..were only used to download Netscape Navigator, this will only be used to pirate Windows XP Pro. Is the CD-burning functionality included? That would be very thoughtful of them, maybe they could just add links in the Favorites menu to popular warez sites for WinXP, since they so clearly have the consumer in mind.
How likely do you think it is that it was actually removed, rather than just turned off? Considering that this just seems to me to be an anti-Linux ploy by Microsoft, I can't imagine they'd go to any more trouble than they have to. And even if they did intend for people to use this crippleware, I would think they'd rather they hack it than replace it with pirated XP Pro
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Why not limit it to only running 1 application at any time... that way users won't get confused at all
-- The universe began. Life started on a billion worlds...
-- Except on one where stupidity was there first.
http://kanotix.com/files/kanotix/KANOTIX-BUG-HUNTE R-07-2004-A.iso.torrent
the more systems will slip through their fingers.
I say PROMOTE the idiot who came up with this idea!
There's just one thing I've learned about these limited versions. I think it's best summarized by one Finnish proverb: "Poor people can't afford to get cheap things". Do you think it's wiser to spend a small amount of money on the "limited" version, keep limping forward with the limited set of functionality and be never able to buy the full version - or is it wiser to first a little bit more money, and spend it on the full version right away?
Before I got Linux and its wonderful set of high-quality free tools, I was constantly in pain. Why? The stuff I needed was expensive, and demo shit or shareware stuff doesn't do anything well! Limited programs weren't option - It's unwise to buy toys when you need the real tools.
Even the name "Starter Edition" is ridiculous. This thing is supposed to be the low-cost alternative to a real work operating system, meant to be used all the time, just like the real version. Yet, the name implies it's only a "Starter" version. Why should people buy a separate "starter" version, since it implies they need the real version anyway? How long are you going to be "starting" the computer use, anyway? Forever?
this has surely resolved any confusion anyone may have had over the fact that microsoft are douchebags, and it sucks for someone else to have proprietary control over your software.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
Look at it this way, if you are only able to run less than three applications at some point - you know you have been 0wn3d! - The simplest prognosis ever.
Since they won the use of that name...
I'm joking, ok...
SCIREV.NET - fanfics,reviews & more
And probably rightly so, but:
According to Microsoft, this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'
I can virtually hear gnome developers right now crying out eureka!
God have mercy on us!
so let's see...
1. Gator
2. Casino.net
3. Cydoor
hey! that doesn't even leave me room to run Bonzi Buddy!
ôó
'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'
So people in the US can handle more than 3 apps, but people in S.E. Asia can't? What a bullshit excuse for throwing out a weak piece of crap.
Since when has this country used intellectual elite as a pejorative term?
Sounds like this version of windows was designed by a beer company not a software firm! Is it the beginning of fat free Windows or will it be another fat32 monster?
It only runs in 800x600. No other resolutions. Brilliant for those LCD monitors which has a native resolution higher than that.
A lot of people are asking why MS is cripling this OS beyond recognition. I think it has a lot to do with iTunes.
Apple pretty much proved that the average person will pay for the convenience of having an "official" (and also easy to download) copy of a song over a free one. Sure, people still pirate, but $100,000,000 worth of music is not chump change.
So MS releases an OS for a few bucks. If they *didn't* cripple it, some people (think mom and pop redneck) would probably think up elaborate ways to buy it. I mean, why not: you get full support, you know the version you're getting isn't chock full of viruses, and for once you have a legitimate license.
MS has crippled it to make it less attractive to the average US buyer, but I bet in a heartbeat if they released a version with a few more features and a similarly-low price, mom and pop redneck would buy them up.
Is the CreateProcess family of functions the one that does all the checking or is it something stupid like the explorer shell putting an upper limit on the number of PIDs active?
thank you RMS, thank you linus, thank you to all the dear, magnificent people who have changed (and are changing) the world for the better.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
What if you ran Cygwin and Wine ?
Clearly, the three application to a session limitation and lack of networking were not features designed to make the OS simpler. They are limitations put in to intentionally criple functionality as that when a user sees a "starter edition" error message, they can also be presented with "That functionality is in the Home version. Please step up by paying..."
Three is clearly an arbitrarly chosen number based on research and testing... the marketing people were then given the number to work with and then spin it.
What a demonstration! MS has to SPECIFICALLY TRY to come up with something EVEN WORSE to make XP look good by comparison.
Pity that there isn't a trading floor for Washington state food stamp futures...
-- I could tell right away that she was impressed with my HUGE Slashdot Karma.
I think Microsoft BOB took that title many years ago.
Three processes? Good grief! Give them four -- or even two -- but not three. It's not just a good idea; it's the Law.
I believe those are services....not apps.
They may need less, but they don't need fewer.
Here's the torrent.
From the microsoft site:
Localized customization. With Windows XP Starter Edition, users can choose from country-specific wallpapers and screensavers with familiar landscapes, flags and geography-specific traditional designs.
That's fantastic, if I were Asian that is what would persuate me! Who cares you can only run 3 apps at a time if the wallpaper is showing a familiar landscape?
This is one lame signature, please read the message above instead.
The fuck?!
One would think that Microsoft would *avoid* repeating the Windows ME debacle.
;)
Nope, they embraced it.
Viva Microsoft XP-ME!
Diplomacy is the art of saying, "Nice doggie!" until you can find a rock.
If this 3 app "limit" includes system tray items I get the feeling users will have a hard time getting their systems to boot let alone use. On the other hand, this is yet another opportunity for the Linux camp to shine. Time to get it's marketing improved
They came for the Communists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Communist; They came for the Socialists, and I didn'
I notice the last 24 of your 110 comments are exactly the same as this one, I'm not a subscriber but I presume the other 96 are the same. Doesn't it get a bit boring posting this all the time? Or are you a wonderful feat of perl scripting?
I wonder if this 'Starter' version will have the same shitty security/stability and ease of cracking/compromise that WindowsXP has. If this starter version is built by the same people who built the XP versions, it's a very good chance that this starter version will serve only to continue to allow script kiddies and crackers in hacking into systems, causing trouble, and continuing to provide the world with quality viruses/worms/trojans/spyware/malware products.
Maybe someday the people who are using the Microsoft OS's will open their eyes and realise that the Windows OS's are bad for the user as well as the internet society as a whole.
Even thought this is the truth, and some people refuse to accept the truth, I have a feeling it will be modded down and will attract lots of negetive replies from those who do not really know what is happening in the OS news.
Linux for free, or a crippled MS OS for $xx.xx? I don't think Microsoft is competing well on the price point.
Dev A: We're on target with everything except the usual... the numerous bugs
Lead dev: Features, call them features..
Dev A: --features, we couldn't adapt are a security haz- er, configuration issue.
Lead dev: Okay, noted. Siramanthar?
Dev B: Marketing says the configuration issues will not greatly impede sales. But like all our releases, it leaks memory like a sieve. I've spent the last thirty straight days staring at teh debugger... it's just too arcane. The original code was written under the influence of a beer whose like I have not yet tasted.
Lead dev: About that; I've got a solution from above, but it's not pretty. (developers eye each other uneasily.) We're going to limit the user to running only three programs at a time.
Dev C: Isn't that throwing the baby out with the bathwater?
Dev A: Won't our users laugh at us?
Dev B: I don't even want to think about what slashdot will say about this....
Lead dev: People, this is direct from the central Hive. We have no choice. Besides, it worked for the celeron. Now, Make Your Time. *clap*
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
Is your firewall an application? Is your antivirus an application? Is your volume control an application? Are the several IM's that some people run applications? I have tons of little icons for programs that are running like these but I wouldn't really call most of them applications. I have no idea how the OS is able to tell the difference.
Dunno how they'll enforce the "three application" rule. If you loaded Norton's Antivirus, Zonealarm, and Adaware, you're screwed if you wanted to use Office. Obviously, there will be ways around that. It likely halts one of the other processes, so if Norton's or Zonealarm is stopped, it may make the machine even less secure.
I need to know more about the implementation of this "feature", but from the few ways I can think of, it sounds like a Zombie Breeding Ground...
http://www.mac.com/
Get a fast, powerful, free, and aesthetically pleasing operating system, that can do much more than WindowsXP could ever hope to do, without being enslaved by a ridiculous Licensing scheme.
Download it now at Mandrakelinux.com
You'll thank yourself later =)
Microsoft Windows "OFF" edition:
Benefits: Can only be run when the machine is turned off.
A Microsoft spokesman is quoted as saying the limitation is immensely useful for getting obese Americans outside and doing something besides fucking around on the internet.
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
Does anyone remember when some ancient OS was also limited to permitting only a few apps to run concurrently?
In order to get more to run at the same time, the mark--that is, the "customer", had to pay something like another three or four times the price of the OS to allow running up to ten concurrent apps, plus an hefty annual service fee. There were several levels, each permitting more apps to run with the payment of higher fees.
The purpose of this was, of course, revenue enhancement. However, this particular company sold very few licenses and soon went out of business.
It seems microsoft has decided to implement the same revenue enhancement scheme. The limited versions will eventually replace the unlimited versions of XP or whatever it will be called in the future and then one will have to pay a lot more for getting more apps to run at the same time.
There is no chance that microsoft will suffer the same fate as that ancient company. It has assured that almost everyone is hooked, addicted to it's stuff so it can afford to once again put the screws to it's "customers".
"Retarded"
And just what is considered an application? A window (Excel opens a separate window for each file open), or an executable image? Heck, I've got more than three apps running minimized in my taskbar (antivirus, IM, firewall, dnetc, UPS monitor, and so on)... I don't really see how they could limit the number of running apps -- if you limit it to just three processes running in user space, then the computer is basically worthless...
This new price scheme gets them back into the OEM playfield, so manufacturers can continue selling MS Windows instead of any GNU/Linux distro in their new PCs.
This will stop the increasing GNU/Linux awareness among non-tech people.
Starter Edition sounds like a great example of legal price discrimination and turning a blind eye to piracy. Starter edition isn't exactly price discrimination. Price discrimination is when I charge a rich person $20 for a hamburger and a poor person $2 for the same hamburger, even though the hamburger cost me $1 to make. Why? Because I want all the money I can get from each person who can afford to pay. This is illegal. Starter Edition is not the same as Home or Professional, so it's not price discrimination, but the principal seems to be the same. Here's where the piracy comes in. Many people in California drive over the 65 speed limit on the freeway. In fact, you'll probably get honked at if you don't. You can even drive next to a cop at 75 with no problem. It's the unwritten law and what is expected. Publicly, Microsoft hates piracy, but to an extent, I believe they silently condone it. Here's why, and I'll use Adobe as an example. Some high school is playing with a pirated version of Adobe Photoshop at home. He can't afford Photoshop and none of his work is for profit or being sold. Adobe loses no money by his use of their product. Now, let's say he gets really good at Photoshop and some day goes pro. Either he, or his company, is going to buy Photoshop for him to use because 1) now he (or the company) has the money to make the purchase, and 2) it's the product that he knows. If he couldn't have pirated Photoshop back when he was a kid, he probably would have ended up using someone elses product and getting good at that. So, this type or piracy, though still illegal, is beneficial to Adobe. The real pirates they're trying to stop are the ones selling mass copies of their product. So this brings me to two, not necessarily exclusive, conclusions on Starter Edition. One) Starter Edition is a legal method similar to price discrimination to get any money possible from the Thais. Two) Starter Edition is a way to milk money from the piracy issue. People may buy this cheap OS instead of using Linux or pirating (because it's affordable). Then, having gained experience on the OS (similar to the high school kid with Photoshop) they will be more compelled to shell out for the full version than to switch to something they aren't accustomed to such as Linux. I feel the three application limit is not for simplicity, but to encourage an upgrade once the user gets used to Windows. An insightful poster earlier pointed out something good I hadn't considered that is relevant to piracy: This may simply be a Microsoft "tax" assuming that new computers come preloaded with Starter Edition. Even though the user is expected to install a pirated version of Windows anyway, they still payed a small increase for the system to be preloaded with Starter Edition.
Why are Microsoft trying to sell a demo?
... they can't split IE off, it's funny how they can restrict the number of apps running. Very strange...
... the concept of the "training bra". A whole lotta something to try and cover a whole lotta nuthin......
If it is sold worldwide, we won't have to pay for a full windows licence on a new dell laptop anymore. Last time i bought a laptop I installed Linux before loading windows for the first time (you know.. that anoying "press any key if you agree the licence" screen)
-- When did Ignorance Become a Point of View?
So far, zero, except for the one you posted?
I find this offer as inacceptable as the rest of the Slshdot crowd, but wouldn't it be possible that Microsoft knows it's market? I bet they made extensive research in Asia and it turned out that most people will be satisfied with an operating system as crippled as this. I am not really sure if I wouldn't try it if I was really short on money but wanted to run my favourite games or office app.
Maybe Linux might be 10 times more powerful but some people just like to use Word and IE? Maybe not everyone needs network because there is no broadband or LAN-Party around?
I know it sounds totally insane to us but maybe not so much to your mother or a thai. And don't forget that dealing with free operatingsystems still takes some time for a newbie, WinXP is commonly known...
What a great way to sell your products! Continually call your customers stupid, which lowers their self-esteem, thus making them really start thinking they ARE stupid, forcing them to buy your product.
uhh... your OS crashes on startup :/
Someone will just write a program called "Launcher" which starts every program as a sub-process of itself. It will have it's own built-in scheduler, which will probably be better than Microsoft's.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
how long it will take someone to crack the edition, restoring full functionality, and cross referensing diffrences in code to find out what does what?
Hey we are trying to test our server, and where better to advertise then on slashdot. we want as many powople as possible to download the new XP SP2 from ftp://rommie.ziaspace.com/pub/windows/WindowsXP-KB 835935-SP2-ENU.exe
since misrosoft is limiting the downloads.
When you make something worthless, even free would be too expensive.
They say "we'll sell you less for less". But that's not a great offer if they can get more for less elsewhere. They need to put more value in their products. Say, make XP Home and Pro better and make XP Starter what XP Home was.
Businesses don't buy licenses from Red Hat at $3k per server because Linux is cheap.
After enough times trying to run 4 apps at once, I'm betting that Linux is going to look really attractive to anyone who shells out the $4 needed to purchase XPSE. They already spent $100 or more on the system, so they'll want to get as much out of that investment as possible, and the cost of XPSE will far exceed the $4 price. I doubt that XPSE will let you make a 4 headed system, with one cheap pc connected to 4 cheap monitors, keyboards, and mice.
There is exactly one case I can think of where someone will want XPSE, and that's to run Windows games, unless they put in something to prevent dual boot.
This isn't a problem for MS. Their real intent is to prevent users from getting PCs with Linux installed by default. Users that get Linux installed by default might just realize that it's better than (or at least as good as) Windows and keep it.
On the other hand, users who've never seen anything else will be more likely to just replace the hobbled version with a pirated version of Wintendos and, thus, keep the MS monopoly healthy.
If a reasonably large minority of Taiwanese people/organizations were to start using Linux on a regular basis, this might start "The Domino Effect" (as per cold war thinking).
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
Microsoft changes it business model for Microsoft Windows to crippleware.
Hilarious, this reminded me of the GameCube, the world's only dedicated (i.e. it doesn't play DVDs) games console.
... uses light colors on a white background to help users stay squinted and confused.
> only three applications can run at any one time.
Presumably it is Microsoft that determines what is, or is not, an 'application'. MS Office, for example could be made so that it counts as one application while OpenOffice.org is forced to count as several, and thus be more restricted in how it can be used.
Or perhaps MS Messager does not count as an application while AOL messager does. It may even be that IE is 'intgrated' and thus not an application while FireFox or Opera counts as one for each function: browsing, email, etc.
Thus MS has the opportunity to manipulate the system in an anti-competitive way. Not that I have any evidence that it would, of course.
The way that this may be countered is that the application developers may 'bundle' the functionality in such a way that it is just one application. OO.o could put back the StarOffice 5.x mechanism that has all the modules as one loadable unit. If this makes it just one application and also incoprporates a browser (as StarOffice 5.x did), EMail, Messagers and everything else, then it would become the standard mechanism for XPSE.
Back in the single-tasking MS-DOS days this was done to make huge portmanteau applications, such as Lotus 1-2-3, so that spreadsheets, word processing and many other functions could be done within the limitations of the single task without exiting and reloading. This was why 123 became the most popular application.
In the medium term I suspect that there will be some tendancy to revert to monolithic all encompasing single applications that incorporate every feature that will fit. Small niche market or single use software (such as AOL messager) will suffer in XPSE markets. This may be intentional on MS's part.
In the long term it will not matter at all. XPSE will go away.
let's see:
1. Bonzi Buddy
2. Gator
3. lop
4. oops! no more apps can be started!
XP SE GUARANTEES your inability to work!
Don't laugh. Where I work, we have some unskilled people at an electronic scale. They are supposed to open their application from a main menu and enter the weight into this mask.
I did an "idiot proof" manual with screenshots and red arrows ("type here", "push this button", etc.)
However as the saying goes: Make something idiot proof, and an even greater idiot will find a way to break it. I did the mistake in the manual to start with "in the Main Menu start this application".
So they do. Everytime they have to weigh something. Without closing the already running application.
I thought they got confused by Windows XP collecting several Windows into a single Task-Bar button. So I turned it off. But they kept on launching their application over and over again.
So, there went a little bit of insight into this idea of only letting a user launch 3 apps at once before he gets confused... I think...
Then my Commodore 64 beats Windows XP by a mile. Whoo hoo! the OS wars are OVER!
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
MS probably patented this already, but I'm thinking of chopping one of my hands off so that I don't get left and right mixed up any more. Of course, even though I'm right handed I'll keep the left hand. The left one is the one that's left. There easy to remember!
Engineering is the art of compromise.
According to Microsoft, this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'
;)
Is it just me or Microsoft just insulted the intelligence of its customers.
Price discrimination is not illegal.
There are related things that are illegal, like price fixing or predatory pricing, but there is nothing illegal about price discrimination.
May we never see th
It is probably not hard to hack this up so that it supports higher resolutions and more applications. it is also legal. Networking and perhaps DX 9 may be a bit of a problem.
It is not illegal, neither under the DMCA nor (at least US) copyright law to circumvent things like the resolution limitations. Circumventing devices intended to allow price discrimination is quite legal, on par with bypassing the region coding on DVDs.
It will eliminate any support you get from MS, but what support did you have in the first place?
Of course, it's really just as easy to pirate the software, but if legality is a concern (and you're willing to jump through some extra hoops to play by Microsoft's rules), this may be an acceptable choice.
May we never see th
Microsoft will definitely succeed. It really knows how to abuse its monopoly. After the release most PCs will carry SE. And new users will consider the 3 app limit to be a limitation of the computer and not that of Windows (I'm not sayin they wont know, I'm saying they'll just consider). New users are stupid - everywhere (hackers tend to underestimate the ignorance of a normal person). In fact most new users I've met dont know what role 'Windows' plays in a computer and definitely dont know about alternatives. Ultimately they'll just learn to live with it, just like they've learned to live with BSODs and the limitations of DOS.
Until he passes init=/bin/bash to the kernel from the bootloader, and your problems start again.
Actually, on a modern system, the kernel will probably not boot with this size process table. There are too many kernel-level processes -- I have 19 kernel processes running on Liux 2.6.6 at the moment.
May we never see th
'According to Microsoft, this limitation 'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'"'
We wouldn't want users to "get confused" and buy Linux, now would we?
Another example of how Microsoft is so VERY much more "user friendly" than Linux.
It doesn't get better than this. The Windows trolls are going to start sounding like Bush proclaiming we found WMDs in Iraq with this sort of help from Gates.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
How long til someone makes a patch to reenable XP's functionality? It probably involves all of about 10 Mb worth of DLLs and EXEs.
Of course, if MS *really* wants to make a lite version, they could strip the device drivers directory down to bare essentials, rather than pay whatever royalties the hardware vendors demand. The added benefit is that they wouldn't clog the end user's HD with unnessesary and unwanted drivers (somewhere around 300-400Mb worth).
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
it's been a while since I've done anything with threads, but wouldn't it be possible to write a small program that will start other programs for you, but as a THREAD of the original program, and not as seperate processes? this might be a way to get around the 3-app rule. Not sure how efficient or safe it would be to run Winamp, Word, IE, and Outlook (or some other group of apps) as child threads of a single process, but might be worth a try
It is totally not illegal. What do you call business class vs. residential class DSL?
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
...it's a taskbar with three buttons that fill up, and once you fill the three buttons up it tells you to close a task to clear one of the slots.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
Really? Microtrash? I don't think so.
But they will try to "decommoditise the protocols", as per Halloween Memo no. 1. Sadly for Sir Bill, almost every Internet router/gateway etc down to the machines serving modem pools at the ISPs tend to run some kind of *nix, not expensive trash like IIS, so it might not be as simple as he thinks.
What the hell do you mean by "Asian" anyway? Where I come from, it often (misleadingly) refers to racial groups from the Indian subcontinent, which is pretty silly (Chinese aren't Asian??!).
Anyway, I have news for you. "Brown" is one of the few colours where you could genuinely find a human being that *was* that colour.
"Yellow" people don't really look yellow.
"Black" people don't look black (no, not even very dark-skinned people from Central Africa), and "White" people don't look white.
And I know some smartass out there is thinking of Albinos. Well, let's get some bleached copier paper and an albino and do the comparison...
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Ah yes, Cygwin! I don't know if it works that way or not, but it might be a good starting point. That way it is easy to make the transition to a real OS with native (not emulated with difficulty) fork() when the uselessness of Monoploy Crippleware becomes obvious.
Dear Mr. Gates,
Will I need to learn another language to use my pirated version of XPSE or will it be available in english?
Sincerly,
Anonymous
OMGWTFLOLBRBGTGBBQ!!!!!1111!!!!!1!!!!!one!!elevent y!one!
I really want McDonalds food now! At least I'm typing on Win2k!
3 Applications should be all anyone ever really needs anyway!
...before someone figures out how to re-enable all the features.
I doubt MS developed an entirely new OS, what most likely happened is that they put some restrictions on top of the original WinXP to disable these features.
But it would probably help the sales of their WinXP Starter Edition, since then peoeple can spend less money to get the crippleware, and apply a patch to get a fully (dis)functional WinXP.
Actually, you may be on to something. WinME could be beaten into 100% stability, but it *couldn't* be taught not to squander the resource heap -- so it really wasn't practical as a multitasking OS. And I've noticed that WinXP doesn't multitask as smoothly as Win95/98. (At the moment I don't run Win2K as an everyday OS, so can't comment on how it compares here, but I don't remember it as having any special issues in this regard.) XPHome is worse about it than XPPro, and I wonder if it's a side effect of having some of the networking code pulled out by the roots. Yanking out even more code may have introduced issues that make it unstable under heavy multitasking.
A three app limit does seem really lame, tho -- especially since running a decent two-way firewall is going to eat one of them. I know a lot of users have this bad habit of closing and restarting apps every time they want to switch from one to another, but why forcibly entrench the habit of beginner behaviour -- unless it's to ensure the new user such a miserable experience that they upgrade to a real multitasking OS out of sheer frustration. If M$ hopes to get 'em to pony up for XPHome or Pro, I think they're in for a major market LARTing.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
greg, REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!
If you've got 10 programs open, the cost of running them "all" multitasked still depends on how quickly you're switching contexts... does each program get 1/10th second, every second? or six seconds per minute? The less you switch contexts, the more processing is devoted to doing work at the application level.
Obligatory anti-microsoft sniping: Oh, unless you run 10 programs at once on a windows machine, then there's a performance 'hit' while you reboot (or install a better OS).
Just to play devils advocate, since technically there's a very small potential optimization to be had, what one could do for the crippleware version would be to make the scheduler smaller and dumber so it runs in an even smaller fraction of a second than it already does. Since this is so small an amount of time, it wouldn't even give you an extra fps on DoomIII, I doubt they did this. But hey, I hear Gates used to puff the magic dragon back in the Day, so you never know.
Yes professor Erbacher, I really did read the textbook.
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
WinXP SP2 ................ STRIKE ONE! .... STRIKE TWO! ......... STRIKE THREE,
WinXP Starter Edition
Windows Longhorn
YOU'RE OUT!
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
simple - move your task bar to the left side of your screen - confusion removed...
In any case, even with the default install of MiniNT, one hits the 5-process limit pretty quickly. Something like irfanview chews up two threads - it will load if it's the last thread but not showing its menu.
Of course, the BartPE world has got around this limitation, by spiking winlogon.exe one way or the other. For example, killing off in order, smss.exe and winlogon.exe apparently does wonders, as does loading the shell via peloader.exe (which makes some weird calls to dehack the resource feature).
The other thing is that it might be explorer itself doing this, but i think they're using a hacked shell on top of WinPE.
I have not seen the product, but the numbers that i hear are remenicent of WinPE.
OS/2 - because choice is a terrible thing to waste.
I'll just install VMWare and install Linux on it.
And, anyone who has any intelligence knows that Windows OS's are garbage.
I mean, come on, when they can pick up a copy of XP Pro for 5 bucks in some kiosk down the street, why would any "Asian" user actually pay more for a piece of crippled junkware?
--- "I didn't think anyone would understand it" -Prof. Bob Muller
With that press statement they practically invite anyone to put it just that way: "Hey, Microsoft says all asians are too dumb to handle more than three windows at once".
Why couldn't MS be honest about it and say "sure, we target the low-cost market segment here with an XP-version with reduced capabilities. If you want/need the whole functionality of our powerfull Windows XP(tm) you'll still have to pay the full price (What you get is what you pay for)."
It's obvious to anyone what MS is doing here, they could as well be open about it and avoid abusing their (potential) asian userbase. But no, the PR-department had their say and decided it's better to lie and not only imply that asian users are too dumb to run more than three aplications but also that they're too dumb to spot such a poor lie.
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
Hello, I'd like to order a pizza.. extra cheese.. no peppero... hey wait, this isnt a phone. Sorry, I have 5 applications running, I'm so damned confused :(
I mean, 3 apps ? That's two more than really needed if you can have Emacs run on this thing...
I shall call it... InvalidOS!
Is this a sigs-optional kind of place? 'Cause I am totally down with that if you know what I mean.
I'd like to know if it really is a full version of windows, with a little bit of crippling software to get in the way... you know, something that's easy to defeat. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if that was the case, because microsoft knows they stand to benefit more so long as windows proliferates -- even if they have to give it away. Making it cheap, and temporarily (because of it's defeatable nature) crippled, is just a way to justify giving away their own software. As a bonus, they're making a little bit of money as opposed to simply allowing others to pirate it or just giving windows away for free. Hell, anything to keep the tigers away from using oss or homebrew software, because then microsoft knows it's lost its market for good!!
[ you and I are ugly ]
And I've noticed that WinXP doesn't multitask as smoothly as Win95/98
....especially compared to that crapfest that is called windows 95.
Oh, for Pete's sake....try running a media player (winamp or something like that) on windows 95 while running a nice large C++ compile at the same time. It craps out. Stuttering music, choppy user interaction.
Do the same under XP. It doesn't crap out. Even under large loads the music keeps on playing.
If 95 works for you, then fine. But stop making wild guesses and presumptions about OS'es that you aren't even running. Don't take me wrong, I'm not a windows zealot. Even though they have their flaws, 2K and XP are actually quite decent operating systems
'helps [users] stay organized and reduces confusion.'
Maybe this should be called..... XP Simple Edition?
Just because they can't afford to buy a fullblown XP/whatever license they can still fire up Soft-ICE and get to work on patching the 3 user process restriction.
Surely this is a ploy to have XPSE sold through OEM (machines pre-installed with this). Just think about it. A computer manufacturer/packager will want to sell with Crippleware Edition: firstly, it's going to be really really cheap through OEM, and secondly, they can justify selling crappy monitors with it, because Starter Edition will not allow a resolution higher than 800x600. Then, people who buy this (being suckers) find that the text on their screen is too small (or fuzzy) (or doesn't show enough text) and they need a bigger monitor. Then they realise that the text now looks really fuzzy. Then they have to buy the full version of XP, at about 250% the price of the OEM version. Result: computer packagers have opportunity to make really good-*sounding* deals, Microsoft gets loads more money from those people who really want to "go legit", and the consumers are screwed. Of course, this will increase piracy. I think.
Maybe. Some people are predicting that, but as the intended geographic region is fairly pro LInux, we shall see. Either way, I think the Monopoly has made themselves look stupid, and has had a negative effect on their own revenues. But we can only speculate, time will tell.....
Fuck you. I never said that, that is a blatently made up quote. In fact I never even said anything even remotely resembling that. Making up quotes goes beyond trolling. I'm putting you on my shit list.
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
Fuck you. I never said that
You know what? It wasn't *meant* to be a quote from you.
Note my style carefully. Everything *you* said was in italics. The supposed "quote" was not in italics, because it was *me* paraphrasing a common defence of Windows in anticipation of it coming up anyway.
Guess what? You were right. It came across as a quote from you, and for that reason it should have been presented differently or rewritten.
Frankly, if I'd been trolling, *I* wouldn't have spent time pointing out the various flaws in your response. I didn't feel the need to distort your views in the way that you did mine with the "lawsuit" thing (see grandparent).
I'm putting you on my shit list.
Mmmm... okay!
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).