FFXI and Everquest along with 90% of the other MMOs out there are MMORPGs. The whole point of them is to Role Play.
Then why do you rarely see actual role-playing on MMORPGs?
BTW, if you think that grandparent doesn't like role-playing in his games, then you've obviously never played Puzzle Pirates, which has more role-playing in it than all of the popular MMORPGs combined.
Didn't bother asking this question because the thread was already old, but what's that odd looking game that's standing beside the pinball machine in the wide shot?
The third sounds like an outsourced game in the dated Tomb Raider mould (the two games even share the same developer).
No, they don't. Crystal Dynamics is just handling the latest game in the series. They're better known for the far superior Legacy of Kain series.
And even if Core Design, the original developer of Tomb Raider, was making this new Deus Ex, they managed to do a pretty good job on Project Eden, so I wouldn't be so depressed about it.
I suppose both of you are right. Unlike in the other two cases, though, coming up with a way to get people to spend hundreds of dollars on the same game just to be able to compete isn't that admirable of an innovation.
Actually, that would be Metal Gear (1987), if not a game even earlier than that.
Yeah, I did read the part where you said that MGS made it matter (which is questionable, but I'm not going to argue the point), but it is kind of funny that a game in the same series predates it.
MtG isn't really a PnP RPG at all. Couldn't you have invited Steve Jackson or one of the White Wolf people?
The other two are fine, though you might have been better off going with a legend in PC gaming (Will Wright, Sid Meier) considering your choice of Miyamoto in the console field.
All I see about them is the obvious mention of Bemani games. What about Castlevania, Contra, etc.? Surely GameSpot must've written an entire page about them, but it got lost. That would explain it.
Sorry to break it to you, but Kana Little Sister was horribly boring and filled with ridiculous plot contrivances, not even good as an interactive novel. That's what you get when you take a hentai "game" and remove most of the hentai from it.
And have you actually played any of the Super Famicom releases of the Dragon Warrior series?
Yeah, both of them. They're better than the first four, but that's to be expected by technological advances. Compare DQ6 to contemporary games like Final Fantasy 6 or Chrono Trigger and it falls short.
Dragon Quest VII went on to sell more copies than any other PSOne game in Japan ever. By contrast, Dragon Warrior VII, and the Dragon Warrior series, has never attained more than a small but loyal cult following in the US.
That's probably because the DQ/DW series is about a decade behind the times. I'm not just talking about graphics, either. Fighting the hordes of palette-swapped enemies that DQ subjects you to with the limited amount of innovation that the DQ series has just isn't all that fun anymore.
Elixir then had to rely on its own internal testing to help marginally improve the title. The steep learning curve was the first casualty of no time. Demis realized it was there, but simply didn't have the additional months to spend doing anything about it.
I thought Republic was pretty easy, personally (though I stopped playing it after the "plot twist" in the second city). The problem was that it was extremely tedious; you had to do basically the same thing over and over again to progress. There was little variety, hence little fun. Very disappointing.
But when you consider FF7 and 8 to be the classic episodes of Final Fantasy you lose all your credibility.
Well, they certainly are the best games in the main series, regardless of whether or not you'd use the word "classic" to describe them. FF6 had a cliched plot with too many pointless characters that completely broke down about halfway through; the gameplay wasn't all that inspired either. However, it's still much better than the previous five entries, which are all more-or-less crap by today's standards (depending on your opinion of the Job System, of course). On the other hand, FF7 arguably had the best plot of the FFs, while FF8 had the best gameplay (again, this probably depends on your opinion of the Job System) and characterization.
As for the grandparent's point, I wouldn't say that Crystal Chronicles betrays the feeling of the FF series (since, like FFT, it's not part of the main series in the first place), but I would say that about FFXI.
I'm fairly sure that they play and record the XBox MP version of the game to do most of the sequences, and polish it up with some movie-editing program or other. Some of those sequences--the "bombing" of Sheila in Episode 9, for example--required a lot of tricks in order to get them to work within the limits of Halo XBox MP and the Blood Gulch map.
Ah yes, I forgot about sports games. But anyone who says that they wouldn't buy more than one FPS or RPG because "they're similar" obviously isn't a big fan of FPSes or RPGs. Most FPSes or RPGs (or games of most other genres) are sufficiently different from each other to justify buying more than one of them.
Every game out there is in direct competition with every other game, no matter what the genre. If I spend $50 on a game. That's $50 that's not going to be spent on any other game.
That's not direct competition; that's indirect competition. Direct competition is when two or more applications do basically the same thing (e.g. Photoshop and GIMP, or IE and Mozilla). This doesn't really fit with games, as you rarely see two games that do the same thing. If you buy Photoshop, you have no reason to use GIMP, but if you buy Halo, you have no reason not to buy KOTOR (besides budget, which is where the indirect competition comes in).
About the only exception I can see to this is MMORPGs. Due to the ridiculous amount of time and money that goes into making a good character, most people stick to one MMORPG at a time.
The only problem with this line of argument is that after development, games only cost maybe $5 per unit to make. It's possible that if prices were lowered, the lower profit per unit would be made up in volume. Of course, it's really hard to tell if game prices are on the wrong side of the cost-sales curve or not, especially since different games can have different curves.
Kinda like shoplifting to see how long you can get away before you get taken away by the police.
As the consequences for getting caught shoplifting are far worse than those of getting caught cheating in a video game, this analogy isn't really valid.
Rob (Though I wouldn't exactly be shocked if some kleptomaniacs thought that way)
Slashdot Mirror
Blarg, should've previewed.
Here
Rob
HOTU (warning: pop-ups) thought that Chex Quest was great.
But then, they thought that freaking Battlecruiser 3000 was great.
Rob
FFXI and Everquest along with 90% of the other MMOs out there are MMORPGs. The whole point of them is to Role Play.
Then why do you rarely see actual role-playing on MMORPGs?
BTW, if you think that grandparent doesn't like role-playing in his games, then you've obviously never played Puzzle Pirates, which has more role-playing in it than all of the popular MMORPGs combined.
Didn't bother asking this question because the thread was already old, but what's that odd looking game that's standing beside the pinball machine in the wide shot?
Rob
I always thought that this was weird, personally.
Rob
The third sounds like an outsourced game in the dated Tomb Raider mould (the two games even share the same developer).
No, they don't. Crystal Dynamics is just handling the latest game in the series. They're better known for the far superior Legacy of Kain series.
And even if Core Design, the original developer of Tomb Raider, was making this new Deus Ex, they managed to do a pretty good job on Project Eden, so I wouldn't be so depressed about it.
Rob
I can't wait to play a giant robot Goblin Tinker hero in the next Frozen Throne patch.
Rob
Wow, someone certainly is being defensive. Maybe you should've tried answering his legitimate questions.
Rob
Wow, I'm shocked. Sign me up for three copies!
Rob
I suppose both of you are right. Unlike in the other two cases, though, coming up with a way to get people to spend hundreds of dollars on the same game just to be able to compete isn't that admirable of an innovation.
But that's a whole other argument.
Rob
MGS was the true pioneer
Actually, that would be Metal Gear (1987), if not a game even earlier than that.
Yeah, I did read the part where you said that MGS made it matter (which is questionable, but I'm not going to argue the point), but it is kind of funny that a game in the same series predates it.
Rob
MtG isn't really a PnP RPG at all. Couldn't you have invited Steve Jackson or one of the White Wolf people?
The other two are fine, though you might have been better off going with a legend in PC gaming (Will Wright, Sid Meier) considering your choice of Miyamoto in the console field.
Rob
All I see about them is the obvious mention of Bemani games. What about Castlevania, Contra, etc.? Surely GameSpot must've written an entire page about them, but it got lost. That would explain it.
Rob
I figure most Slashdotters know how to use BitTorrent, so this shouldn't be that big of a problem.
Rob
Sorry to break it to you, but Kana Little Sister was horribly boring and filled with ridiculous plot contrivances, not even good as an interactive novel. That's what you get when you take a hentai "game" and remove most of the hentai from it.
Rob
And have you actually played any of the Super Famicom releases of the Dragon Warrior series?
Yeah, both of them. They're better than the first four, but that's to be expected by technological advances. Compare DQ6 to contemporary games like Final Fantasy 6 or Chrono Trigger and it falls short.
Rob
Dragon Quest VII went on to sell more copies than any other PSOne game in Japan ever. By contrast, Dragon Warrior VII, and the Dragon Warrior series, has never attained more than a small but loyal cult following in the US.
That's probably because the DQ/DW series is about a decade behind the times. I'm not just talking about graphics, either. Fighting the hordes of palette-swapped enemies that DQ subjects you to with the limited amount of innovation that the DQ series has just isn't all that fun anymore.
Rob
Elixir then had to rely on its own internal testing to help marginally improve the title. The steep learning curve was the first casualty of no time. Demis realized it was there, but simply didn't have the additional months to spend doing anything about it.
I thought Republic was pretty easy, personally (though I stopped playing it after the "plot twist" in the second city). The problem was that it was extremely tedious; you had to do basically the same thing over and over again to progress. There was little variety, hence little fun. Very disappointing.
Rob
But when you consider FF7 and 8 to be the classic episodes of Final Fantasy you lose all your credibility.
Well, they certainly are the best games in the main series, regardless of whether or not you'd use the word "classic" to describe them. FF6 had a cliched plot with too many pointless characters that completely broke down about halfway through; the gameplay wasn't all that inspired either. However, it's still much better than the previous five entries, which are all more-or-less crap by today's standards (depending on your opinion of the Job System, of course). On the other hand, FF7 arguably had the best plot of the FFs, while FF8 had the best gameplay (again, this probably depends on your opinion of the Job System) and characterization.
As for the grandparent's point, I wouldn't say that Crystal Chronicles betrays the feeling of the FF series (since, like FFT, it's not part of the main series in the first place), but I would say that about FFXI.
Rob (Playing FF since 1990)
I'm fairly sure that they play and record the XBox MP version of the game to do most of the sequences, and polish it up with some movie-editing program or other. Some of those sequences--the "bombing" of Sheila in Episode 9, for example--required a lot of tricks in order to get them to work within the limits of Halo XBox MP and the Blood Gulch map.
Rob
Coincidentally, one of the warez groups released this game about four days ago.
Rob
Ah yes, I forgot about sports games. But anyone who says that they wouldn't buy more than one FPS or RPG because "they're similar" obviously isn't a big fan of FPSes or RPGs. Most FPSes or RPGs (or games of most other genres) are sufficiently different from each other to justify buying more than one of them.
Rob
Every game out there is in direct competition with every other game, no matter what the genre. If I spend $50 on a game. That's $50 that's not going to be spent on any other game.
That's not direct competition; that's indirect competition. Direct competition is when two or more applications do basically the same thing (e.g. Photoshop and GIMP, or IE and Mozilla). This doesn't really fit with games, as you rarely see two games that do the same thing. If you buy Photoshop, you have no reason to use GIMP, but if you buy Halo, you have no reason not to buy KOTOR (besides budget, which is where the indirect competition comes in).
About the only exception I can see to this is MMORPGs. Due to the ridiculous amount of time and money that goes into making a good character, most people stick to one MMORPG at a time.
Rob
The only problem with this line of argument is that after development, games only cost maybe $5 per unit to make. It's possible that if prices were lowered, the lower profit per unit would be made up in volume. Of course, it's really hard to tell if game prices are on the wrong side of the cost-sales curve or not, especially since different games can have different curves.
Rob
Kinda like shoplifting to see how long you can get away before you get taken away by the police.
As the consequences for getting caught shoplifting are far worse than those of getting caught cheating in a video game, this analogy isn't really valid.
Rob (Though I wouldn't exactly be shocked if some kleptomaniacs thought that way)