But I have to say that this is the first time I have seen anything about the PS3 in a negative light that didn't have the first 100 posts contain at least 50% of Sony fanbois trying to justify the (price, technology, blu-ray, etc.)
Price:
While I will wholeheartedly agree that the price is about $100 too much on the PS3, is it really THAT big of a deal? Nope. Everyone planning on getting one before the announcement will continue to do so. They're early adopters who pay for the masses to buy at cheaper cost. How is this different from any other product launch?
I disagree with you. I think that the PS3 is about $300 too high. $600 for a non crippled version is rediculous. I was planning on getting one, but after the announcement there is no way. Not that I can't afford one, but because there is no way I am going to pay that much for a machine to play games on that could have a betamax built in.
Convergence:
My comment about horse blinders is appropriate here, because nobody is seeing the pink elephant in the room. Or, should I say blu-Elephant. Blu-ray is the next generation format for watch-at-home movies. So is HD-DVD, as some would argue. There's only one catch-- MILLIONS of blu-ray readers will already be in the clutches of PS3 owners. They'll get a next generation HD format with the bonus of a next-generation game machine. Stand alone players will cost $600 to $800 at the time the PS3 launches but you won't get a game machine with those. And because this all comes standard on BOTH the low and high end PS3, it's a winner. If this was optional equipment I wouldn't be singing the same tune. HD-DVD will not win the format war because SONY will have blu-ray standard on the PS3. End of story.
Wow.... you do realize that HD-DVD players are out now priced below $500? And you do realize that there are many more people out there that watch movies on HD TV's then there are that play games on them? Seems to stand to reason then that when the average consumer walks into an electronic store to buy a HD video player, that spending less then $500 is going to sound pretty good versus spending $1000+ for a blu-ray player? You assume that the players are going to cost $600-$800 in 6 months. At that time, HD-DVD will have lowered as well. 2 identical (to the average joe) products, one hundreds of dollars lower in price. Which one do you think that they are going to choose?
Market Timing
Microsoft has had a pretty good launch with the 360. They haven't done much wrong here. I'm amazed by that as much as anyone else. They have a cool UI, online distribution, etc. But so will SONY. The difference is that people with gaming PC's won't see much original (or better looking) content on a 360. They'll get unique titles on a PS3. SONY has sat back and looked at what was good and bad with the 360 (and Wii) and made their priorities known. While there may be a people who can't affor gaming rigs buying 360's, I would challenge that PS3 owners will own more games per console.
And people with a PS3 won't see much original or better looking content then on a PC. Most publishers will release high selling games on the PC as well. There is not much known about Sony's attempt at an online marketplace/community for the PS3. There is, though, on the 360, and with the release of Live Anywhere, it seems to be growing into the ultimate online community.
I know very few people that don't own at least a couple of 'bought' games even if they bought the console to hack in the first place. Sure, they aren't going to go out and buy every game that they want to play, but there is always the games that don't 'backup' easy, or games that they do really like and buy to support the developers/publishers.
As E3 just gets over and the next-gen console wars start to heat up, a hack for the 360 comes out allowing for 'backup' games to be run. Now, I realize that MS loses money with each console sold, but how many people wait to buy a console till a way comes out to play 'backup' games?
I know many people that didn't own an original Xbox till they found out how easy it was to hack it, then ran out to get one. I am sure that MS will shut down Live for any systems that are running this hack just as they did for the Xbox running the softmod hack, but could this be something that MS planned on to sell more systems?
I was one of the lucky few that stood out all night in the cold so that I could geta 360 on release day. Not because I am a MS fanboi, but because I like gaming, and it was the next gen console. Fast forward to today...
My 360 sits next to my TV getting turned on maybe once a week to check out Live and maybe play some Dead or Alive against my wife. There is a lack of good titles, and titles that have replayability. While I am not disappointed per say, I am going to buy one of the other consoles when they came out. And I am going to follow pretty much what was said... I have a 360, why not a Wii too? The price is great (we all assume), the game play looks fun, and when I need my 'hardcore' fix, I still have my 360.
The fact that there is not propriatary format for the next gen dvds has me wondering, and will keep me from purchasing a system (the PS3) that has it built in. What happens to the PS3 if HD-DVD becomes the defacto standard? You have an expensive console that can only play games. At least with the Xbox, if Blu-Ray becomes the standard, you can just plug in a standalone player. While I am sure that the PS3 will offer a standalone if it loses with the Blu-Ray, at least with the 360 I am not stuck with a betamax with a VCR plugged into it.
Microsoft has got me pegged. A hardcore system for those days I need it, and a 'fun' system that I can play some great games from the past on, and that my family can enjoy for the same price as a system that might be obsolete in 2 years...
Sure, it would cost them that much in initial loss vs the current price point. But, if that means they sell more systems because of it, and more importantly more games for those systems, I imagine that the deficit is quickly made up.
I'll take your bet. My guess is with the hubris of Microsoft, especially after the Xbox, that they are not out to just win the console war, but to 'fucking kick Sony's ass'.
You are out of your mind if you think there is going to be a 360 price drop before they start to turn a profit on it. The only way that happens is if Microsoft perceives that they are losing the market share battle in a horrible way.
A price drop by Microsoft on the 360 at the time of the PS3 (especially around the holidays), especially since Microsoft has stated that the components in the 360 are getting cheaper to manufacture, would boost 360 sales by a huge amount, while at the same time making the PS3's price even more outrageous. I for one would but my money on MS dropping the price.
Okay, I can see his point on starting from the beginning...being one of the first shadowrunners might be kinda cool. As long as they don't go overboard and rewrite the whole history, and keep with the majority of the timeline as the games unfold, I would have bought it...
But a squad based first person shooter??! I'll tell you what Mitch, sit down one night with 4 or 5 of your friends, a gob of 6 sided dice, some Coke and a pizza or two and play the pen and paper again. Let that feeling you get sink in as you slot and run for Mr.Johnson. That is the feeling that droves of fans want out of this game. If you can't create it in the game, don't create the game.
I have to hand it to MS this time around. While the initial Xbox was 'meh', the 360, launched almost a full year ahead of Sony, seems to me to be on equal footing with them this time around. Sure, the PS3 will have built in Blu-Ray (which IMO Sony has made a HUGE gamble on it being the proprietary format for next gen DVD), and a few other bells and whistles, it really has nothing a full year later then what you can't get with the 360. (Well, besides some half ass motion sensor controller thing...which, I can honestly say, I really am not that excited about).
Why I really think that the 360 will take this round in the console wars is going to be the Live service. Playing a game on the computer, see a bud come online on his 360, invite him to play with you? That is cool.
I was planning on buying the other 2 systems when they come out(my guilty pleasure, gaming. I own/ed pretty much all the consoles at one point or another), as my son and wife will love to play the Nintendo, and I am intrigued by the controller. But, with the outrageous price point of the PS3, and not alot of exclusive games that are must plays on the PS3 (actually... I can't think of one that I would want to play), there will be one more system on the shelves this holiday for someone else.
I have been programming for over 5 years as a profession now, and I guess that I am one of the lucky ones. I make 6 figures a year, and can think of less then a dozen times that I have 'HAD' to put in more then a 40-50 hour week. Sure, there have been times that I have been working on something, and got so drawn into it that before I knew it the sun had set and I had been working 14 hours straight, but that was my own initiative, and wasn't due to crunch time or management.
I think that one of the other posters got it right when he said that alot of the complaining is coming from fresh coders who haven't gained the experience to code so that they aren't reworking code and squashing bugs all the time. Or maybe, as I stated before, I am just lucky in the jobs that I have landed.
With a family at home and more hobbies outside of work then I care to think about, I know that my quality of life would decline dramatically if I routinely had to put in 60+ hours of work a week. The companies that I have worked for have always been very considerate when setting timelines, asking the programming team how long they think that they need to complete a task, then tacking on 20-30% more time to allow for unseen problems. Is this standard practice, and is it the developers who are causing themselves more work?
...what everyone here knows is just another Dreamcast in the Xbox 360
Yeah, we all know how Microsoft throws billions into a product only to go bankrupt by it...
This just might be the game to actually get me to stop using my 360 as a dvd player for my kids Baby Einstein vids... just think of the fun on Live -
"Hoi Chummer, there is a heatwave coming down on a bunch of deckheads in the sprawl. We should geek that vatjob for Mr. Johnson and slot and run to the plex. You fraggin hose this, and I'll make sure your nothing but drek on a panzer tire."
heh...
And anyone expects anything less from the company that brought us DRM that can be circumvented by holding down the shift key when inserting a copy protected CD?
I have seen a few posts over at Xbox scene and elsewhere that are saying that the crashing is due to a bad power supply. The switched power supplies with other 360's, and the problems followed one particular power supply, and the system that had the problem at first worked fine with another power supply.
I played for a few hours last night on both PGR and Perfect Dark, and had no problems what so ever. I will admit, though, that I am going to be saving on the heating bills this winter, as the box does spit out some really warm air.
Spent all night in line at a BB in Phoneix, only to find out that they only had 40-some units. Talk about an artificial shortage. I called every wally world in the greater metro area, only to be told that as of noon yesterday they were turning people away that weren't already in line. Hopefully MS keeps trickling in a supply, as there were alot of angry people who spent alot of time in line and got nothing. I paid $200 to some kid who got a ticket and was trying to sell it. Figure that it was worth not spending 40+ hours in line!
I bought SWG when it first came out, and seriously (40+ hours a week) played it for over a year. With each new 'change' that Sony enacted, they would add 1 or 2 'neat' things, but remove just as many if not more. Through out the time that I played, the communication to the player base was beyond horrible. I remember 3-4 day waits on in-game customer service tickets, including being stuck in geometry and missing items from known bugs.
Still, there was the call of the 'jedi' that kept me playing. At first, no one knew how to unlock the vaunted jedi slot. Sony was mum on the subject, and the rumors and speculations were enough to keep a browser window open to the forums, if only for the entertainment value.
Many players remember the release of the holocrons, the first real hint as to how to unlock the jedi. After chasing hermits around the desert, collecting badges based on the oh-so-rare spawn of a certian encounter, this was it? Become a master so-and-so? All this hype, the entire star wars universe at your hands to come up with a method of unlocking the best class in the game, and all Sony could come up with was a grind? Not only a lame method, but 6+ months into the game before the files for the jedi were even introduced to the client? Many people, including me, took this as Sony's way of releasing the game without the jedi content, and quickly coming up with something when the player population really started demanding some answers.
I stuck with it, and after more mouse clicks building walls, doing dance moves, customizing droids, and changing hair styles, I finally saw on my screen the words "You have become force sensitive". OMG... Looking back on it now, it must have been comical for my wife as I screamed in joy, jumping around the room, dancing in extacy.
Once I set up my jedi account, and made my first light saber, I remember the envious comments of my friends and guildmates as I showed them the glowing purple stick. Finally, I had made it to the end game!!
Then I actually started to play with the jedi character. It was the worst experience I have ever had in a MMORPG. Mind you, I bought and tried to play Anarchy Online the first day it came out. The system was horrible, the amount of experience you needed was absurd, and half of the jedi powers were bugged. Not only that, but to make a lightsaber, which wore down at an alarming rate, you needed either a rare drop from a Krayt dragon, or a rare drop crystal. And even if you found a crystal, you were never assured that it was a good crystal, as more then half caused stat loss.
Jedi was a disappointment. What was touted as the ultimate character on the game, ended up as the worst. My wife got pregnant, I got responsibilities, and some guy in France got my jedi off e-bay for $1600.
Microsoft is going to pull out. They are like the teenager in the back seat of the car at a drive-in, enjoying the sensation of screwing until it's too late.
Being a self confessed computer geek, from coding 10 Goto... when I was 5 on a Commodore Vic 20 to now making a nice living coding C#, I really have always wondered why people have such a hard time with Windows? Never have looked at Linux (heck, I mispronounce it half the time... is it lin-ux or lie-nux?! j/k), what doesn't work right the first time with windows, what crashes all the time, what can you not do that you want to do?
Thinking about it, yes, I will admit that I am a fan-boi of Windows. Flame me if you wish, (and I am sure that I am about to get scorched) but if I ever run across something that I want to do in Windows and unable to, I'll just sit down and write an app that will let me. Sure, I have to pay for software and the OS. But it's because of the software and the OS that I am able to support my family and my lifestyle.
I guess I just don't understand what the draw of Linux is...
Slashdot Mirror
But I have to say that this is the first time I have seen anything about the PS3 in a negative light that didn't have the first 100 posts contain at least 50% of Sony fanbois trying to justify the (price, technology, blu-ray, etc.)
Price: While I will wholeheartedly agree that the price is about $100 too much on the PS3, is it really THAT big of a deal? Nope. Everyone planning on getting one before the announcement will continue to do so. They're early adopters who pay for the masses to buy at cheaper cost. How is this different from any other product launch?
I disagree with you. I think that the PS3 is about $300 too high. $600 for a non crippled version is rediculous. I was planning on getting one, but after the announcement there is no way. Not that I can't afford one, but because there is no way I am going to pay that much for a machine to play games on that could have a betamax built in.
Convergence: My comment about horse blinders is appropriate here, because nobody is seeing the pink elephant in the room. Or, should I say blu-Elephant. Blu-ray is the next generation format for watch-at-home movies. So is HD-DVD, as some would argue. There's only one catch-- MILLIONS of blu-ray readers will already be in the clutches of PS3 owners. They'll get a next generation HD format with the bonus of a next-generation game machine. Stand alone players will cost $600 to $800 at the time the PS3 launches but you won't get a game machine with those. And because this all comes standard on BOTH the low and high end PS3, it's a winner. If this was optional equipment I wouldn't be singing the same tune. HD-DVD will not win the format war because SONY will have blu-ray standard on the PS3. End of story.
Wow.... you do realize that HD-DVD players are out now priced below $500? And you do realize that there are many more people out there that watch movies on HD TV's then there are that play games on them? Seems to stand to reason then that when the average consumer walks into an electronic store to buy a HD video player, that spending less then $500 is going to sound pretty good versus spending $1000+ for a blu-ray player? You assume that the players are going to cost $600-$800 in 6 months. At that time, HD-DVD will have lowered as well. 2 identical (to the average joe) products, one hundreds of dollars lower in price. Which one do you think that they are going to choose?
Market Timing Microsoft has had a pretty good launch with the 360. They haven't done much wrong here. I'm amazed by that as much as anyone else. They have a cool UI, online distribution, etc. But so will SONY. The difference is that people with gaming PC's won't see much original (or better looking) content on a 360. They'll get unique titles on a PS3. SONY has sat back and looked at what was good and bad with the 360 (and Wii) and made their priorities known. While there may be a people who can't affor gaming rigs buying 360's, I would challenge that PS3 owners will own more games per console.
And people with a PS3 won't see much original or better looking content then on a PC. Most publishers will release high selling games on the PC as well. There is not much known about Sony's attempt at an online marketplace/community for the PS3. There is, though, on the 360, and with the release of Live Anywhere, it seems to be growing into the ultimate online community.
I know very few people that don't own at least a couple of 'bought' games even if they bought the console to hack in the first place. Sure, they aren't going to go out and buy every game that they want to play, but there is always the games that don't 'backup' easy, or games that they do really like and buy to support the developers/publishers.
As E3 just gets over and the next-gen console wars start to heat up, a hack for the 360 comes out allowing for 'backup' games to be run. Now, I realize that MS loses money with each console sold, but how many people wait to buy a console till a way comes out to play 'backup' games?
I know many people that didn't own an original Xbox till they found out how easy it was to hack it, then ran out to get one. I am sure that MS will shut down Live for any systems that are running this hack just as they did for the Xbox running the softmod hack, but could this be something that MS planned on to sell more systems?
I was one of the lucky few that stood out all night in the cold so that I could geta 360 on release day. Not because I am a MS fanboi, but because I like gaming, and it was the next gen console. Fast forward to today...
My 360 sits next to my TV getting turned on maybe once a week to check out Live and maybe play some Dead or Alive against my wife. There is a lack of good titles, and titles that have replayability. While I am not disappointed per say, I am going to buy one of the other consoles when they came out. And I am going to follow pretty much what was said... I have a 360, why not a Wii too? The price is great (we all assume), the game play looks fun, and when I need my 'hardcore' fix, I still have my 360.
The fact that there is not propriatary format for the next gen dvds has me wondering, and will keep me from purchasing a system (the PS3) that has it built in. What happens to the PS3 if HD-DVD becomes the defacto standard? You have an expensive console that can only play games. At least with the Xbox, if Blu-Ray becomes the standard, you can just plug in a standalone player. While I am sure that the PS3 will offer a standalone if it loses with the Blu-Ray, at least with the 360 I am not stuck with a betamax with a VCR plugged into it.
Microsoft has got me pegged. A hardcore system for those days I need it, and a 'fun' system that I can play some great games from the past on, and that my family can enjoy for the same price as a system that might be obsolete in 2 years...
The gesturing power of my right hand alone simply dwarfs that of both hands tied together.
...ummmm.... nevermind, it's just too easy....
Sure, it would cost them that much in initial loss vs the current price point. But, if that means they sell more systems because of it, and more importantly more games for those systems, I imagine that the deficit is quickly made up.
I'll take your bet. My guess is with the hubris of Microsoft, especially after the Xbox, that they are not out to just win the console war, but to 'fucking kick Sony's ass'.
You are out of your mind if you think there is going to be a 360 price drop before they start to turn a profit on it. The only way that happens is if Microsoft perceives that they are losing the market share battle in a horrible way. A price drop by Microsoft on the 360 at the time of the PS3 (especially around the holidays), especially since Microsoft has stated that the components in the 360 are getting cheaper to manufacture, would boost 360 sales by a huge amount, while at the same time making the PS3's price even more outrageous. I for one would but my money on MS dropping the price.
Okay, I can see his point on starting from the beginning...being one of the first shadowrunners might be kinda cool. As long as they don't go overboard and rewrite the whole history, and keep with the majority of the timeline as the games unfold, I would have bought it...
But a squad based first person shooter??! I'll tell you what Mitch, sit down one night with 4 or 5 of your friends, a gob of 6 sided dice, some Coke and a pizza or two and play the pen and paper again. Let that feeling you get sink in as you slot and run for Mr.Johnson. That is the feeling that droves of fans want out of this game. If you can't create it in the game, don't create the game.
I have to hand it to MS this time around. While the initial Xbox was 'meh', the 360, launched almost a full year ahead of Sony, seems to me to be on equal footing with them this time around. Sure, the PS3 will have built in Blu-Ray (which IMO Sony has made a HUGE gamble on it being the proprietary format for next gen DVD), and a few other bells and whistles, it really has nothing a full year later then what you can't get with the 360. (Well, besides some half ass motion sensor controller thing...which, I can honestly say, I really am not that excited about).
Why I really think that the 360 will take this round in the console wars is going to be the Live service. Playing a game on the computer, see a bud come online on his 360, invite him to play with you? That is cool.
I was planning on buying the other 2 systems when they come out(my guilty pleasure, gaming. I own/ed pretty much all the consoles at one point or another), as my son and wife will love to play the Nintendo, and I am intrigued by the controller. But, with the outrageous price point of the PS3, and not alot of exclusive games that are must plays on the PS3 (actually... I can't think of one that I would want to play), there will be one more system on the shelves this holiday for someone else.
Don't you mean 'For Teh Win'? I mean, we are all geeks here, lets get it right ;)
I have been programming for over 5 years as a profession now, and I guess that I am one of the lucky ones. I make 6 figures a year, and can think of less then a dozen times that I have 'HAD' to put in more then a 40-50 hour week. Sure, there have been times that I have been working on something, and got so drawn into it that before I knew it the sun had set and I had been working 14 hours straight, but that was my own initiative, and wasn't due to crunch time or management.
I think that one of the other posters got it right when he said that alot of the complaining is coming from fresh coders who haven't gained the experience to code so that they aren't reworking code and squashing bugs all the time. Or maybe, as I stated before, I am just lucky in the jobs that I have landed.
With a family at home and more hobbies outside of work then I care to think about, I know that my quality of life would decline dramatically if I routinely had to put in 60+ hours of work a week. The companies that I have worked for have always been very considerate when setting timelines, asking the programming team how long they think that they need to complete a task, then tacking on 20-30% more time to allow for unseen problems. Is this standard practice, and is it the developers who are causing themselves more work?
...what everyone here knows is just another Dreamcast in the Xbox 360 Yeah, we all know how Microsoft throws billions into a product only to go bankrupt by it...
This just might be the game to actually get me to stop using my 360 as a dvd player for my kids Baby Einstein vids... just think of the fun on Live - "Hoi Chummer, there is a heatwave coming down on a bunch of deckheads in the sprawl. We should geek that vatjob for Mr. Johnson and slot and run to the plex. You fraggin hose this, and I'll make sure your nothing but drek on a panzer tire." heh...
So, if I got this right, the spammers that are getting spammed are now spamming the spammers? Sounds like a flying circus to me!
who gets just a little squeemish at the thought of high def porn?
just hold down the shift key!!
And anyone expects anything less from the company that brought us DRM that can be circumvented by holding down the shift key when inserting a copy protected CD?
I have seen a few posts over at Xbox scene and elsewhere that are saying that the crashing is due to a bad power supply. The switched power supplies with other 360's, and the problems followed one particular power supply, and the system that had the problem at first worked fine with another power supply. I played for a few hours last night on both PGR and Perfect Dark, and had no problems what so ever. I will admit, though, that I am going to be saving on the heating bills this winter, as the box does spit out some really warm air.
Spent all night in line at a BB in Phoneix, only to find out that they only had 40-some units. Talk about an artificial shortage. I called every wally world in the greater metro area, only to be told that as of noon yesterday they were turning people away that weren't already in line. Hopefully MS keeps trickling in a supply, as there were alot of angry people who spent alot of time in line and got nothing. I paid $200 to some kid who got a ticket and was trying to sell it. Figure that it was worth not spending 40+ hours in line!
I bought SWG when it first came out, and seriously (40+ hours a week) played it for over a year. With each new 'change' that Sony enacted, they would add 1 or 2 'neat' things, but remove just as many if not more. Through out the time that I played, the communication to the player base was beyond horrible. I remember 3-4 day waits on in-game customer service tickets, including being stuck in geometry and missing items from known bugs.
Still, there was the call of the 'jedi' that kept me playing. At first, no one knew how to unlock the vaunted jedi slot. Sony was mum on the subject, and the rumors and speculations were enough to keep a browser window open to the forums, if only for the entertainment value.
Many players remember the release of the holocrons, the first real hint as to how to unlock the jedi. After chasing hermits around the desert, collecting badges based on the oh-so-rare spawn of a certian encounter, this was it? Become a master so-and-so? All this hype, the entire star wars universe at your hands to come up with a method of unlocking the best class in the game, and all Sony could come up with was a grind? Not only a lame method, but 6+ months into the game before the files for the jedi were even introduced to the client? Many people, including me, took this as Sony's way of releasing the game without the jedi content, and quickly coming up with something when the player population really started demanding some answers.
I stuck with it, and after more mouse clicks building walls, doing dance moves, customizing droids, and changing hair styles, I finally saw on my screen the words "You have become force sensitive". OMG... Looking back on it now, it must have been comical for my wife as I screamed in joy, jumping around the room, dancing in extacy.
Once I set up my jedi account, and made my first light saber, I remember the envious comments of my friends and guildmates as I showed them the glowing purple stick. Finally, I had made it to the end game!!
Then I actually started to play with the jedi character. It was the worst experience I have ever had in a MMORPG. Mind you, I bought and tried to play Anarchy Online the first day it came out. The system was horrible, the amount of experience you needed was absurd, and half of the jedi powers were bugged. Not only that, but to make a lightsaber, which wore down at an alarming rate, you needed either a rare drop from a Krayt dragon, or a rare drop crystal. And even if you found a crystal, you were never assured that it was a good crystal, as more then half caused stat loss.
Jedi was a disappointment. What was touted as the ultimate character on the game, ended up as the worst. My wife got pregnant, I got responsibilities, and some guy in France got my jedi off e-bay for $1600.
Microsoft is going to pull out. They are like the teenager in the back seat of the car at a drive-in, enjoying the sensation of screwing until it's too late.
Being a self confessed computer geek, from coding 10 Goto ... when I was 5 on a Commodore Vic 20 to now making a nice living coding C#, I really have always wondered why people have such a hard time with Windows? Never have looked at Linux (heck, I mispronounce it half the time... is it lin-ux or lie-nux?! j/k), what doesn't work right the first time with windows, what crashes all the time, what can you not do that you want to do?
Thinking about it, yes, I will admit that I am a fan-boi of Windows. Flame me if you wish, (and I am sure that I am about to get scorched) but if I ever run across something that I want to do in Windows and unable to, I'll just sit down and write an app that will let me. Sure, I have to pay for software and the OS. But it's because of the software and the OS that I am able to support my family and my lifestyle.
I guess I just don't understand what the draw of Linux is...