Slashdot Mirror


EFF and Sony Disclose New DRM Security Hole

Dotnaught writes "The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) and SONY BMG Music Entertainment said on Tuesday that SunnComm is offering a patch to fix a security vulnerability with its MediaMax Version 5 content protection software on 27 SONY BMG CDs. Security firm iSEC Partners discovered the hole following a request by the EFF to examine the SunnComm software. The vulnerability involves a directory installed on users' computers by the MediaMax software that could allow a third party to gain control over the affected Windows PC. The EFF and iSEC delayed disclosing the problem until SunnComm could develop a fix."

258 comments

  1. yes we all know by scenestar · · Score: 3, Funny

    How big of a drama it is.

    Sue the bastards and get it over with.

    --
    perpetually dwelling in the -1 pits
    1. Re:yes we all know by saskboy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Patience...

      http://www.boycottsony.us/ has the latest news on developments in the Sony case, and www.sonysuit.com lists the lawsuits.

      A New lawsuit for Candians is being opened by http://www.glynhotz.com/ an Ontario lawyer. The XCP CDs appear to still be on many store shelves, more than a week after the recall was announced in Canada.

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    2. Re:yes we all know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      glynhotz, Wow, too close to Lionel Hutz for me..

    3. Re:yes we all know by cloudkiller · · Score: 2, Insightful

      let me see. I have a crappy OS (Windows) that I have to patch once a month. I have many crappy browsers that also need to be patched from time to time. I have a software firewall that needs patching plus antivirus, anti-spyware, office apps, email clients, photo programs, games... And now I also have to patch my CD's. Great! Hey, I have a better idea, why not just sell us an upgraded music CD that has a patched DRM? As long as it's at least $5 more than the first one I bought I'll have the assurance of spending the most money possible while also having 16 copies of Jessica Simpson's new CD.

      --
      [an error occurred while processing this sig]
    4. Re:yes we all know by Aegis9975bb2 · · Score: 0, Troll

      I think you missed the parent comment's sarcasm. . .

      though it is funny how the modders have modded him down from "insightful/informative" to "Funny/overrated"; that's how Slashdot's hive-mind works I guess. . .

      Though it is quite amusing how /. loves to bash agressive lawsuits like SCO/IBM and general intellectual patent lawsuits, but are hypocrtitical enough to use excessive lawsuits as a weapon as well.

      Sorry, mod me down, I had an individual thought. . .

    5. Re:yes we all know by saskboy · · Score: 1

      "but are hypocrtitical enough to use excessive lawsuits as a weapon as well."

      Suing Sony because they broke people's Windows isn't acting in a hypocritical way. Slashdotters are just generally against companies suing individuals or other organizations over information property issues. Sony rooting your computer isn't an IP issue.

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    6. Re:yes we all know by Aegis9975bb2 · · Score: 1

      You miss the point, Slashdotters have overwhelmingly in the past bitch and moan about frivilous and excessive lawsuits against things that they care about. Topics such as IP, DMCA, SCO, etc, but clearly when the shoe is on the other foot, Slashdotters quite happily are willing to use the exact same tactics (i.e. flooding their groups with differing views with friviolous lawsuits). While ideologically the lawsuits are different, Slashdotters are cheering on the exact same tactics which they spat upon and villified before. That, sir, is hypocrisy. Besides, I sincerely doubt that any person on Slashdot actually purchased or was dumb enough to fall for rootkit from a Sony-BMG CD. I also doubt that all these ppl who are actually calling for these lawsuits even bought the CD in question and were harmed in either way.

    7. Re:yes we all know by commbat · · Score: 1

      It appears that you believe everyone reading slashdot think/believe/want exactly the same things. Excuse me, but this is a community with many people having diverse opinions. Don't lump us all together and say we all think the same.

      --
      'Intellectual Properties' are uncontrollable in the wild. To base an economy on them is just stupid.
    8. Re:yes we all know by saskboy · · Score: 1

      "Slashdotters are cheering on the exact same tactics which they spat upon and villified before."

      The "tactic" is not at issue here. Suing or negotiation is both the legal and ethical way to recoup losses from someone who did willful damage to you or your physical property. In the case of the RIAA suing for lost "information property" they can neither prove loss, or damage, only copyright violation of which the ethicality is debatable. And in some caes they can't even PROVE that there was copyright violation by the people they are suing, like grandmothers, pre-teens, and dead people.

      Slashdot geeks might not have installed DRM that broke their computers, but they have sisters and brothers that might have, and asked for the Slashdotter's time in fixing their messed up computer. Sony's arrogance has affected us all.

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    9. Re:yes we all know by ToasterofDOOM · · Score: 1

      Here's the bugfix:
      $sys$rootkit

      --
      I am Spartacus
    10. Re:yes we all know by Aegis9975bb2 · · Score: 1

      Arrogance? Don't you people get tired of your own bullshit? Honestly, if you want to be plainly honest, security faults are all over the place. Their response to it was pretty much similar to other companies, recall it, and patch it. If we were going to sue over this shit then there are a million and one security holes in IE. Clearly, the the lawsuit are being just used in a malicious intent rather than an legitimate form of justice.

      This is just beating a dead horse, and as far as the avg person goes. Most ppl don't give a damn about Rootkit, people have actual real issues to deal with. Wars in Iraq, secret CIA torture camps around the world, bills to pay, a housing market that is starting to stagant. Something like rootkit is not on their minds

    11. Re:yes we all know by Aegis9975bb2 · · Score: 1

      "It appears that you believe everyone reading slashdot think/believe/want exactly the same things. Excuse me, but this is a community with many people having diverse opin"

      Well obviously everybody that reads Slashdot don't believe the same, which would put myself in the same catagory as everybody else here, but clearly there is sort of a hive mentality here. Opinons and views that differ from the herd quickly get modded down. Case and point, the parent of this thread which was modded "insightful and informative" at first but was quickly turned to "overrated/funny" by anti-sony sentiment at Slashdot.

      If you would like to view any sort of this hive-mind moderation by all means look at any political discussion on Slashdot. Fact is, here on Slashdot, the majority can silence the minority. Look for any person on this discussion that is just plain tired of hearing about rootkit and sony-bashing, probably those individuals have been modded down

    12. Re:yes we all know by saskboy · · Score: 1

      "Most ppl don't give a damn about Rootkit, people have actual real issues to deal with."

      Sorry, I didn't realize you worked for Sony. I'll use smaller words now.

      People do care when they can't burn CDs any more because they bought the newest Neil Diamond CD. That's why they care about rootkits from Sony.

      And there are no lawsuits regarding the flaw in MediaMax [not yet anyway, and I agree Microsoft is much more guilty than Sony in the Holes department], the lawsuits are for installing a rootkit on purpose, which break California and other jurisdiction's laws for computer use, and anti-spyware laws. Sony also used copyrighted code in their's, which was a violation of the LGPL. They willfully damaged people's computers in anattempt to control them and conceal what they were doing from anti-spyware programs.

      If you can call that "BS", then you better stand up and explain how it is. It isn't BS.

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    13. Re:yes we all know by Kuros_overkill · · Score: 1

      I would also like to point out:
      Suing someone (else) because you spilled coffie on you lap == BAD
      Suing someone because they shot you with a gun == Acceptable

      I'm sure you can see the difference.
      That being said, I would much rather criminal charges be brought up against these guys, rather than resorting to a civil lawsuit.
      Or, you could do what I'm doing and "voting with my dollar", I was going to buy a PS3, now I'm going to buy a Revolution instead. I was going to buy a PSP, Now I'm going to by a DS instead. Simple as that.

    14. Re:yes we all know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fact is, here on Slashdot, the majority can silence the minority.

      This is precisely the reason I read at comment threshold "-1". I am no longer confident that moderators will evaluate postings in an objective, impartial manner.

      -AC

    15. Re:yes we all know by dragonfly_blue · · Score: 1

      I hate how litigious the United States has become, but since class-action lawsuits are the only real tool consumers have left to protect themselves from this sort of thing, I'm reluctantly in agreement with your sentiments here.

      --
      Free music from Jack Merlot.
  2. Useful indeed by Renegade+Lisp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And to think that only yesterday, there was a slashdot story wondering whether the EFF had outlived its usefulness... So there's your answer, I guess.

    1. Re:Useful indeed by Southpaw018 · · Score: 1

      Damn. Beat me to it you did. Mod parent up; this sums up yesterday's BS story.

      --
      ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
    2. Re:Useful indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      And to think that only yesterday, there was a slashdot story wondering whether the EFF had outlived its usefulness...
      Just to be clear. The story from yesterday was from The Register, it was not a Slashdot story. It was posted on Slashdot so that we could discuss the issues raised in the story and eventually to poke holes in the logic of the troll who wrote it. Perhaps it would have been better just to ignore it, but at least we now all know that The Register are nought but flamebaiters
    3. Re:Useful indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just to be clear. The story from yesterday was from The Register, it was not a Slashdot story. It was posted on Slashdot so that we could discuss the issues raised in the story and eventually to poke holes in the logic of the troll who wrote it. Perhaps it would have been better just to ignore it, but at least we now all know that The Register are nought but flamebaiters

      Does it make a difference? Am I supposed to trust Slashdot stories all of the sudden?

    4. Re:Useful indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does it make a difference?


      Well, yes. Of course.

      The Slashdot article was a presented in the form of a question, "Has the EFF outlived its usefulness?" Those in the Slashdot community who chose to participate discussed the issue and the consensus seemed to be that the answer is no, the EFF has not outlived its usefulness. Compare this with the original story from The Register, where the author was offering his viewpoint in absolute terms.

      The difference between the two is night and day. To reiterate, The Register article presented a viewpoint, the Slashdot article asked if The Register article was correct in its conclusions.
    5. Re:Useful indeed by Ph33r+th3+g(O)at · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.

      Says he, the brave man using his real name on Slashdot. Oh, wait. Spare me the self-righteous crap.

      --
      I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
    6. Re:Useful indeed by reclusivemonkey · · Score: 1

      Indeed, but it was written by the Register's resident troll.

    7. Re:Useful indeed by KiloByte · · Score: 1

      Beh... I don't know for you, but that pile of FUD was the last straw that made me and a friend shell out some cash to EFF, even though we're europeans. We have a rule about never, absolutely never, donating to any kinds of charities -- but if you count the costs you're going to suffer in your lifetime, a dollar sent to EFF spares you more than a dollar in the long run.

      Someone has to fight the bastards, and you choose the guys with the best record so far.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    8. Re:Useful indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Never donate to charities? Do you at least do philanthropic, community, or any kind of societally-beneficial work?

      Selfish bastard.

    9. Re:Useful indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes they have. I hear bitching about showing ID at an airport and other crap, but where's the EFF when this happens?

  3. Assume the Position by xmuskrat · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hopefully the fix is them turning around, bending over, and grabbing their ankles.

    --
    activestudios web design
    1. Re:Assume the Position by BushCheney08 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hopefully the fix is them turning around, bending over, and grabbing their ankles.

      I really don't want to know what the plug for the hole looks like.

      --
      Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
    2. Re:Assume the Position by Soruk · · Score: 3, Funny

      Large stick of dynamite, with any luck.

      --
      -- Soruk
    3. Re:Assume the Position by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      too bad (care should probably be taken if you're at work)

    4. Re:Assume the Position by Cipster · · Score: 1

      Is it the fabled analog hole?

    5. Re:Assume the Position by ToasterofDOOM · · Score: 1

      OMG goatse!
      $sys$eyes

      --
      I am Spartacus
    6. Re:Assume the Position by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure it's proprietary, and won't fit in any other orifice.

  4. Quick Question... by parsnip11 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Who in their right mind would voluntarily install something from SunComm or SonyBMG given their track record?

    Their software phones home and cripples your computer. Would anyone here actually trust them?

    1. Re:Quick Question... by Timo_UK · · Score: 1

      I for one don't welcome our wannabe-overlords and will be avoiding Sony products like the plague in future.
      Who knows what else they are hiding in their software (and most products these days come with some sort of software)

      --
      Timo's Audio Software http://www.esseraudio.com
    2. Re:Quick Question... by jc42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Who in their right mind would voluntarily install something from SunComm or SonyBMG given their track record?

      Most of the victims have no idea that they're installing software on their computer. They're just playing a CD that they bought.

      We geeks and nerds on /. understand the issue. 99% of the population don't even know what "installing software" means, have never done it (intentionally), and aren't to blame for being victims of such things.

      Blame the criminals, not their victims.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    3. Re:Quick Question... by parsnip11 · · Score: 1

      Right.... The vast majority of people who have put the cd in and whose computers are sending messages back to suncomm w/o their knowledge won't be installing the patch anyway.

      Who is the audience for this patch? People who already know that spy-ware and cripple-ware have been installed on their pc's. Given that Suncomm and Sony have already done a lot of "Bad Things" without your approval would you then VOLUNTARILY install MORE of their software on your PC?

      It just doesnt make sense. Would you hire the burglar that broke into your home to install your security system?

    4. Re:Quick Question... by Directrix1 · · Score: 1

      You're stupid if you think these things are limited to Sony. People talk about how stupid religious people are with their blind faith. Well, reliance on binaries without source is blind faith too.

      --
      Occam's razor is the blind faith in the natural selection of least resistance and in universal oversimplification. -- EF
    5. Re:Quick Question... by geminidomino · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, reliance on binaries without source is blind faith too.

      Reliance on binaries WITH source is blind faith, too, if you can't read hundreds of thousands of lines of source yourself, since taking someone else's word for it is just as much "blind" faith.

      That's the answer! Only unemployed programmers should use computers!

    6. Re:Quick Question... by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 1

      True but you don't go far enough.

      How can they be sure that there isn't some nasty spyware in the hardware or federal agents in the house across the street reading your screen contents with an electro-magneto-view'o'scope? Personally I think that everyone should live along in wooden shacks in the middle of nowhere. The only reason to leave the house is to buy supplies and post a few pipe bombs.

      --
      -- Using the preview button since 2005
    7. Re:Quick Question... by jc42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It just doesnt make sense. Would you hire the burglar that broke into your home to install your security system?

      Ah, but the great majority of victims of the first Sony rootkit still have it installed. They haven't heard about the problem, or head and didn't understand at all. If you take a look at the removal instructions, you'll see that there isn't a chance that your typical Joe Sixpack could ever follow them. If he tried, the result would probably be a machine that didn't boot.

      But most of the victims haven't tried to remove it, because they don't have any idea it's there.

      You might well hire the burglar if you had no clues that he was the burglar, and if friends and the BBB recommended him. This is an old sort of scam.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    8. Re:Quick Question... by BigCheese · · Score: 1

      I'd also be concerned about putting a PS3 on my network. Will it sniff traffic on your network and report back to Sony?

      --
      The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. - Edward R. Murrow
    9. Re:Quick Question... by yfkar · · Score: 1

      If that's stupid blind faith, it's impossible to not to be stupid. I don't think anyone can read every line of source code of every program he uses, get access to full motherboard etc documentation, grow his food by himself etc etc and etc. We really need to trust someone if we want to stay alive.

    10. Re:Quick Question... by bri2000 · · Score: 1

      Who is the audience for this patch? Presumably Sony's lawyers who will have advised them that it will look a lot better for the purposes of the inevitable law suit if a fix has been made available.

    11. Re:Quick Question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      IIRC, the SunnComm software installs regardless of whether or not you accept the EULA. http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=936

    12. Re:Quick Question... by wo1verin3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No but if you insert a mod chip it will sprout legs and walk back to Sony corp headquarters.

      In Japan.

      Across the water.

      Yes really.

    13. Re:Quick Question... by nolife · · Score: 1

      New anti terrorist legislation may require all non crt monitors be equiped with an electromagnetic generator with equivelent power and signal of the crt equal. That way, the Tempest "experiment" can continue and protect the United States from evil forces. One government official stated "Only terrorists have a need for LCD monitors and this legislation will be a great benefit to consumers of non crt displays as they can now safely use LCD monitors as well." A bystander responded to that with "What the fu*k?", he was taken away for questioning.

      --
      Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
    14. Re:Quick Question... by lowrydr310 · · Score: 1
      Who in their right mind would install ANYTHING that pops up when you insert what is supposed to be an audio CD?

      Autorun has been disabled on my computer since the day I got it - I like to be able to control (as much as possible) what and when something executes. I also don't like anything that phones home. I use a software firewall to limit internet access to applications that really need it.

    15. Re:Quick Question... by MyDixieWrecked · · Score: 1

      99% of the population don't even know what "installing software" means

      you mean when I download a program from the CD to my computer?

      --



      ...spike
      Ewwwwww, coconut...
    16. Re:Quick Question... by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 1

      The worrying thing is that this is plausible. I'm just waiting for someone to prove a link between casual music sharers and Al Quaeda.

      --
      -- Using the preview button since 2005
    17. Re:Quick Question... by kimvette · · Score: 1

      I for one DO welcome our new DRM overlords as it is obviously best that they decide that I should not be able to use legally-purchased music and should instead turn to P2P networks so my PC doesn't get rooted. Well, that would be the case were I still running Windows.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    18. Re:Quick Question... by Oliver+Wendell+Jones · · Score: 1

      you mean when I download a program from the CD to my computer?

      Don't be silly... everyone knows you upload from the CD to the computer - you download from the computer to the CD...

      --
      A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
    19. Re:Quick Question... by Directrix1 · · Score: 1

      Re: Religion
      Just pointing out the truly flawed argument that exists regarding blind faith. All of existence is blind faith. Whether it originate from scientist, father, teacher, doctor, god, or your own two eyes (blind as they really may be). Your reality is just faith in your observations and your second-hand observations.

      Re: Open Source Position
      Lets say your run a programming business. If somebody comes up to you and says they can program, do you hire them on the spot? No. You qualify them. You deduce the scope of his knowledge using things like certifications, demonstrations, questionaires, and so on. You reduce uncertainty. That is all that open source is, a verifiable reduction of uncertainty.

      --
      Occam's razor is the blind faith in the natural selection of least resistance and in universal oversimplification. -- EF
    20. Re:Quick Question... by Directrix1 · · Score: 1

      Thats your logical leap, not mine (implications aside). But I do agree, to a more fuzzy extent, since you can do things to reduce uncertainty with source that you cannot do without.

      --
      Occam's razor is the blind faith in the natural selection of least resistance and in universal oversimplification. -- EF
    21. Re:Quick Question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, since LCD panels also are refreshed, they DO emit considerable TEMPEST radiation. CRTs emit a large amount of RF hash intrinsically anyway and the TEMPEST emissions must be kept under stricter controls in order to pass FCC certification limiting total RF noise. Similarly, low radiation CRTs sell better due to public hysteria over "radiation".

      The exact proportion of total RF noise that qualifies as TEMPEST signal varies from model to model, but there is an upper bound imposed (indirectly) by the FCC. (TEMPEST signals are radio noise and can cause interference esp. with NTSC TV reception (Hmmm, NTSC will soon be phased out... and its spectrum reused for police radios))

      LCD panels do not have this same tendency to emit RF hash, and so less shielding and other components to reduce total RF (and thus TEMPEST) emmissions are required.

      In other words, the TEMPEST signals from a CRT are buried in the general RF hash from the flying electrons, while the similar emissions from an LCD are basically all there is (and thus can be much stronger and the panel still pass FCC testing).

      The end result is that LCD panels have been found that emit MORE TEMPEST signals than (most/nearly all/etc.) CRT.

      (Side note, forget about TEMPEST reading keystrokes--unless your computer is utter crap, the keyboard cable is one of the more heavily shielded wires in the system, and the keyboard itself emits only the waves that correspond to scanning the key matrix. Since no (easy, remote) way exists to correlate such pulses to actual keystrokes, all that can be obtained is the inter-keystroke timing. Mallory would simply plant a bug (or steal the whole computer) anyway.)

  5. Thank you Sony! by Suzumushi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sony has done more damage to the DMCA and set back DRM farther than the combined efforts of the EFF and like-minded people around the world. We should all thank them.

    1. Re:Thank you Sony! by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yes, but the one thing they haven't been successful in is pointing out the danger of DRM to Joe Sixpack. A number of people I've spoken with have never heard of the Sony 'rootkit' case and had no idea that playing a recent Sony DRM-protected CD on a Windows PC could be dangerous to their computer system.

    2. Re:Thank you Sony! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Enough people have heard about it that sony's artists are whining, because some of them basically dropped off the sales charts after it got out.

    3. Re:Thank you Sony! by VitaminB52 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Yes, but the one thing they haven't been successful in is pointing out the danger of DRM to Joe Sixpack.

      Antivirus software reporting the Sony DRM software as a virus should take care of that.
      Oh yes, and popular DJ's on national radio should warn their audience about the Sony DRM shit^H^H^Hoftware.

    4. Re:Thank you Sony! by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1
      Make a video about it and keep it short, bold and simple. The tactics of anti-piracy groups in the UK is basically to keep it simple with messages like "copying=theft" and "copying=supporting drug dealers/terrorists/bogeyman-of-the-month".

      Something like "if your CD doesn't have the compact disc logo, it may contain dangerous programs. Always ask for a real compact disc"

    5. Re:Thank you Sony! by BushCheney08 · · Score: 1

      Oh yes, and popular DJ's on national radio should warn their audience about the Sony DRM shit^H^H^Hoftware.

      Yeah, because it makes perfect sense for them to tell people to boycott one of the companies that pay their bills... *rolls eyes*

      --
      Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
    6. Re:Thank you Sony! by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      I don't know about the US, but here in the UK, most commercial radio stations seem to be funded by the ad placements, not the recording industry. They do need a special kind of licence to play the music over the air, though, and presumably the copyright holder could deny them permission to do it.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    7. Re:Thank you Sony! by BushCheney08 · · Score: 1

      Don't get me wrong. I *do* think that DJs should mention this, since that's supposedly (although this is highly arguable) part of their role in being in the media. I'm sure, however, that this is something that is getting mentioned at the college and local radio levels. Problem is that in the US, it's well known that the major radio networks/providers receive a lot of money from the major labels to promote their crap, and this is where my comment above comes in. After all, it's not the dorky little guy sitting in the poorly ventilated studio at the top of the student center that the majority of people listen to for their entertainment...

      -former dorky little guy who sat in the poorly ventilated studio at the top of the student center

      --
      Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
    8. Re:Thank you Sony! by MP3Chuck · · Score: 1

      Right, because everyone keeps their virus definitions up to date...

    9. Re:Thank you Sony! by BlowChunx · · Score: 1

      Here it's not called ad revenue, it's called payola:

      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8700936/

    10. Re:Thank you Sony! by quarkscat · · Score: 1

      Yes, we SHOULD thank them!

      And, we should thank them in a way that cannot be misconstrued -- like boycotting the purchase of ANY/ALL SONY products, not just Sony/BMG. Only through real financial pain can the message get through to the RIAA and MPAA members that their DRM and the DMCA have overstepped the bounds of acceptable behaviour.

    11. Re:Thank you Sony! by Kjella · · Score: 1

      If you mean the casual CD playing person, perhaps not. But Sony's DRM shit has certainly made the rounds on music-related boards and sites. So I think most people that are seriously into music have heard about it. Or in other words, your core market. That's like a tree rotting from the inside out, it might not be very apparent but the effects are very much real.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    12. Re:Thank you Sony! by Phisbut · · Score: 2, Informative
      A number of people I've spoken with have never heard of the Sony 'rootkit' case and had no idea that playing a recent Sony DRM-protected CD on a Windows PC could be dangerous to their computer system.

      I dunno about the media where you are, but up here in Québec, the Sony DRM screwup made the evening news bulletin on more than one occasion on two of the most watched channels, even clearly stating that the music CD's installed spyware without your agreement. Although not everybody knows what a rootkit is, many people know what spyware is, so the choice of words was appropriate.

      I love it that our media isn't sold (mostly) to the big corps. They even reported that the Xbox360 might have a heating problem that prevents some consoles from functionning. The Sony screwup is big enough a deal that the general public deserves to be informed.

      --
      After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
      - The Tao of Programming
    13. Re:Thank you Sony! by TinoMNYY24 · · Score: 1
      Another thing we can thank Sony for is for providing another item contributing to the plausible deniability of virus/worm writers. "I'm sorry your honor, but ever since I bought that Celine Dion CD, world-destroying viruses have been shooting out of my computer."

      I hope someone writes a virus that damages sony in some way, and the rootkit is used as a part of his successful defense.

      Not that I'm advocating virus writing.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    14. Re:Thank you Sony! by Trogre · · Score: 1

      Really? It made the 6 o'clock news here in New Zealand.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  6. 2 for 2? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Why am I suddenly afraid my Sony speakers are going to do this:
    http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/3 0/0021211&tid=126&tid=14

  7. Build it into the OS by Phillip2 · · Score: 3, Funny

    It is clear that DRM software is going to be as open to bugs as any other
    software, and some of these will constitute a security threat.

    Surely the solution is obvious. If they built DRM software directly into the
    operating system, then it could be happily updated with all the rest of the
    software, using whatever update mechanisms your OS provides.

    I'm sure that the security minded folks on slashdot will be the first to
    support a legal requirement for DRM in all OS'es, so that we can solve this
    problem before it becomes really serious.

    Phil

    1. Re:Build it into the OS by /ASCII · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's obvious that you are joking, but the problem is that this is exactly the solution that will be proposed, and in politics it is the preferred type of solution.

      --
      Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
    2. Re:Build it into the OS by eggoeater · · Score: 5, Insightful
      It is clear that DRM software is going to be as open to bugs as any other software...
      Actually...much more so.
      DRM software has to do more than regular software to prevent users from circumventing it, with the latest craze being OS hooks.
      Insecure software + OS hooks = HUGE security risks.
      If you ever want to release a worm that takes advantage of a DRM security hole, just put it on a web site that tells you how to disable that particular DRM. People will google for a way to disable their DRM, go to your site, and WHAM.

    3. Re:Build it into the OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why into OS?

      Implement it in the hardware using Trusted Computer Platform (TCP) instead.

    4. Re:Build it into the OS by meringuoid · · Score: 2
      I'm sure that the security minded folks on slashdot will be the first to support a legal requirement for DRM in all OS'es, so that we can solve this problem before it becomes really serious.

      * applauds *

      Bravo! It's been far too long since I've seen a really good troll on /. - too many people think it's sufficient to copy and paste classic trolls of the past, or don't understand trolling and just post obscenities and flamebait, so it's wonderful to see a new, proper troll from time to time.

      Good trolling is, to my mind, a legitimate artform closely related to the best forms of satire, and should aim to receive torrents of outraged replies from people who've completely missed the joke. The best of them that I've seen here ended up with both Troll and Funny mods being applied, leading to what may well be the highest accolade Slashdot can grant, the super-rare +5 Troll. Good luck, and may the Force be with you :)

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    5. Re:Build it into the OS by JonnyCalcutta · · Score: 1

      The +5 troll - I've heard of such things, but always assumed they were just tales told to children on long winter evenings.

    6. Re:Build it into the OS by Phillip2 · · Score: 1

      I'm quite pleased with it actually. I seem to have amused and
      annoyed in equal measure. I wish I'd see it as a +5 troll
      though. I'm down to +2 flamebait now.

      I guess the point is that many people are finding this story
      highly amusing and feel that it will give DRM a bad name. But
      there is another interpretation as well, which might well be
      the one that ends up happening.

      Phil

    7. Re:Build it into the OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A good troll also requires that it be believed and generate flames. This was an entertaining read, but it didn't fool anyone, so I mark it as a poor troll if that was its intention.

    8. Re:Build it into the OS by EZTakes · · Score: 1

      Building DRM into the operating system would be fine, except for three problems: (1) DRM has never prevented piracy in the past; (2) DRM does not prevent piracy today; and (3) DRM is not at all likely to ever prevent piracy. DRM is only sometimes effective at preventing people from making one-off copies and back-ups.

      When it comes down to it, digital content is made up of 1s and 0s. You can copy 1s and 0s perfectly an infinite number of times. By using the Internet, you can get these copies almost anywhere instantly. You MIGHT come up with the greatest DRM in the world, but if one copy gets out in the clear, the pirates have won.

      The only way to compete with free is to give people something better than free. DRM makes digital content worse than free. Much worse.

      Piracy, however, is very useful to executives at large public companies.

      STOCKHOLDER: Why are your numbers so bad this quarter?
      OVERPAID EXECUTIVE: College kids are pirating our content.
      STOCKHOLDER: How are you going to fix it?
      OVERPAID EXECUTIVE: Use DRM and also sue the college kids.
      STOCKHOLDER: OK then. You get to keep your overpaid, cushy job for another quarter.

  8. Sorry to be rude by FidelCatsro · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But first you install stealthy and quite possibly illegal software with one hand , and on the other you install DRM with a Security hole that hardly anyone will patch because they will likely not hear about it.
    Way to go Sony , you truly are a bunch of arse-holes .
    Well at least if this gets major press coverage it may cause an even large headache to ever encroaching wave DRM

    --
    The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
    1. Re:Sorry to be rude by hokeyru · · Score: 2, Informative

      Agreed. We can argue about whether evil is worse than incompetence, but the combination of the two is truly fearsome.

      If you have have any of these CD's, return them. If you're a fan of any of these artists, write them a letter:

      Trey Anastasio, Shine (Columbia)
      Celine Dion, On ne Change Pas (Epic)
      Neil Diamond, 12 Songs (Columbia)
      Our Lady Peace, Healthy in Paranoid Times (Columbia)
      Chris Botti, To Love Again (Columbia)
      Van Zant, Get Right with the Man (Columbia)
      Switchfoot, Nothing is Sound (Columbia)
      The Coral, The Invisible Invasion (Columbia)
      Acceptance, Phantoms (Columbia)
      Susie Suh, Susie Suh (Epic)
      Amerie, Touch (Columbia)
      Life of Agony, Broken Valley (Epic)
      Horace Silver Quintet, Silver's Blue (Epic Legacy)
      Gerry Mulligan, Jeru (Columbia Legacy)
      Dexter Gordon, Manhattan Symphonie (Columbia Legacy)
      The Bad Plus, Suspicious Activity (Columbia)
      The Dead 60s, The Dead 60s (Epic)
      Dion, The Essential Dion (Columbia Legacy)
      Natasha Bedingfield, Unwritten (Epic)
      Ricky Martin, Life (Columbia)

      List from EFF.

  9. Effective DRM by faqmaster · · Score: 5, Funny

    Root kits, Serial Copy Management, Macrovision, Content Protection for Prerecorded Media, Advanced Access Content System, blah, blah, blah. The most effective DRM is for the lables to continue to put out crappy music. Eventually we'll all find something better to listen to.

    --
    Are you...Are you some kind of genius?
    No, ma'am, I'm just a regular Slashdot reader.
  10. the paranoid ac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
    "The vulnerability involves a directory installed on users' computers by the MediaMax software that could allow a third party to gain control over the affected Windows PC. The EFF and iSEC delayed disclosing the problem until SunnComm could develop a fix."

     
    I've never understood how any userland bullshit software could manage the complexities of opening up a hole *on accident*. Call me paranoid, but, when shit like this gets 'found', they call it being 'found' because someone put it there.
    1. Re:the paranoid ac by ergo98 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've never understood how any userland bullshit software could manage the complexities of opening up a hole *on accident*. Call me paranoid, but, when shit like this gets 'found', they call it being 'found' because someone put it there.

      To install the software originally the user had to be an administrator (a lot of software requires admin rights because most of the system won't allow a basic user to install system-wide software. e.g. It could add files in your user directory and the like, but not in Program Files). From then on the software is running as System, operating as a part of the system (which is why it's called a root kit).

      My guess is that the folder where the software is stored has the ACLs set to Everyone with Full Control, or something similar. Because this root kit is run as System when the system boots up, a simple user exploit could circumvent user isolation by overwriting some of the rootkit files, and on next boot it'll be running as System, with full local permissions.

    2. Re:the paranoid ac by jc42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Call me paranoid, but, when shit like this gets 'found', they call it being 'found' because someone put it there.

      Hey, Paranoid, you're not paranoid enough.

      I keep noticing the same misuse of the passive voice to avoid saying who's to blame. As a programmer, it's perfectly obvious to me that no computer ever installs software by accident. It takes some significant software to install something like this, and (as the Intelligent Design folks like to point out), this software doesn't get there by random flipping of bits from alpha-particle impacts. Someone spent a lot of time writing the software that does the installing, and they knew what they were doing when they wrote it.

      Something else I noticed: Before seeing this article on slashdot, I'd just been reading the coverage of the story on news.google.com, and I was a bit bemused by the fact that I couldn't find mention of the kinds of computers that were vulnerable to this exploit. Now, call me paranoid too, but I'll make the wild surmise that they were running Microsoft Windows.

      Anyone know? Is this one infecting OSX, linux and Solaris boxes? Or maybe PalmOS or Symbian smartphones?

      Inquiring minds want to know ...

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    3. Re:the paranoid ac by SilverspurG · · Score: 1

      You're probably right. It's the parent poster's point that any programmer should know to not do that and, if they did, it was probably done on purpose.

      --
      fast as fast can be. you'll never catch me.
    4. Re:the paranoid ac by frankie · · Score: 1

      they knew what they were doing when they wrote it

      I'd say the most plausible explanation in this case is a COMBINATION of malice and incompetence. SunnComm intentionally (aka maliciously) designed their DRM software so that they could remotely (and secretly) install later updates onto victims' PCs. This "feature" was supposed to be used only by SunnComm, and (if we apply the Principle of Charity) only to adjust their own DRM stuff. However, the incompetence part kicked in, and the actual software allows any black hat to 0WNZ0R infected PCs.

      The same type of flaw affected several versions of Gator, Brilliant Digital, and other spyware in the past.

    5. Re:the paranoid ac by Penguinoflight · · Score: 1

      I'm glad you pointed that out. EFF just praised sony BMG for releasing a "fix" so quickly, when in fact they created the problem. The rootkit has been known for well over a month now, and when the problem was planned, it's hardly nobel of them to move so quickly and write a patch in a whole month.

      It's sad, sometimes you don't have to be paranoid to be cynical.

      --
      "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
      1 John 4:14
    6. Re:the paranoid ac by SillySlashdotName · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Something else I noticed: Before seeing this article on slashdot, I'd just been reading the coverage of the story on news.google.com, and I was a bit bemused by the fact that I couldn't find mention of the kinds of computers that were vulnerable to this exploit. Now, call me paranoid too, but I'll make the wild surmise that they were running Microsoft Windows.

      I have posted this before - almost always it isn't an INTERNET worm, it is a MICROSOFT I.E. worm, it isn't an EMAIL virus, it is a MICROSOFT OUTLOOK email virus, it isn't a trojan, it is a MICROSOFT WINDOWS exploit...

      I really think the MICROSOFT name NEEDS to be presented when an exploit THAT ONLY RUNS ON MICROSOFT software is found.

      --
      Acts of massive stupidity are almost never covered by warranty. --me.
    7. Re:the paranoid ac by jc42 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but in this case they're not giving us any of that information. They only say that the malware is installed "when you play the CD". So not only do they not mention the platform; they also don't bother telling us which player(s) might be susceptible. MS systems have several players, of course, as do Macs and linux. Even some cell phones have more than one player available (though I don't know of a cell phone that accepts CDs).

      There's precious little information here. Actually, I'd guess MS Windows (which releases?) and WMP. But the main reason for guessing those is that they're the "default" that most of the media assumes we're all using. Not many users are knowledgeable enough to pick a higher-quality platform or player, so the media doesn't mention it.

      And in some cases, it's because much of the mainstream media doesn't know enough to distinguish brand names. They're barely able to understand that there are several models of auto; the idea that there are several models of computer and that not all computers run the same CD-player software is beyond their comprehension.

      So what OS+player combo(s) does this bit of Sony malware infect?

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  11. Revised titles for Sony Rootkit CDs by digitaldc · · Score: 5, Funny

    Since they are redoing the CDs, maybe they can change the names too?

    Alicia Keys - Unplugged, but still Infected
    Amici - Forever Defined as Dishonest
    Britney Spears - Hitme, but Don't RipMe
    Cassidy - I'm A Hustla in Your PC
    David Gray - Life In Slow Motion Since your PC has a Rootkit
    Faithless - Forever Faithless Sony
    Imogen Heap - Speak For Yourself, I Love Rootkits
    Leo Kottke/Mike Gordon - Sixty Six Steps to Uninstall the Rootkit
    Raheem Devaughn - The Hate Experience
    Santana - All That I Am Allowed to Copy
    Stellastarr* - Harmonies for the Haunted PC
    Various - So Annoying: An All Star Tribute To Rootkits
    Wakefield - Which Side Are You On? Sony or the Public?
    YoungBloodZ - Everybody Know Me, Nobody Copy Me

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
    1. Re:Revised titles for Sony Rootkit CDs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why just change the names? They should go all the way and get some decent musicians to write some decent music, imagine that!

  12. I wonder.. by LilWolf · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ..did they also fix that little issue where the DRM installs itself even if the user doesn't accept the EULA?

  13. No more money for Sony by pedestrian+crossing · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Great, now not only do I have to make sure all my users' applications are patched, but I have to track patches on every frigging DRM implementation out there as well.

    Well, payback is a bitch.

    I have already steered a friend away from a Sony stereo to another brand, making it clear that Sony is not a good "citizen" and they would do well to stay clear of any Sony products.

    Yes, I am only one puny person, but I've already cost them a couple of hundred bucks, and will continue do so at every opportunity.

    --
    A house divided against itself cannot stand.
    1. Re:No more money for Sony by pregister · · Score: 1

      The great irony about the whole DRM and Sony thing is that I am now not just a casual downloader but I actively seek out copied (and safe) versions of spyware/DRM-enabled media. I usually buy my music, support the artists, blah blah blah...but no more.

      Since they've decided to surreptitiously install system-crippling crap on my computer, I've decided they are the enemy. I'll download anything they distribute. Neener neener neener! Smooch my fine red tomato, Sony! Hahaahaha!

      Now if 95% of the stuff they release didn't suck , this would actually be enjoyable.

      -p

    2. Re:No more money for Sony by samureiser · · Score: 1

      As a tech guy, I take every advantage to mention this problem. If they ask me how work has gone, I tell them that I had to fix a computer today that broke because of Sony. If they are a user and I'm clearing out viruses and they ask me what this "rootkit" is that the AV software found, I use Sony's DRM as an example.

      Sure, we're only two people on /. but if everybody here dropped their 2 cents about Sony whenever opportunities present themselves (and did so, mind you, in language end users can understand), this could become very effective.

      Anybody here do tech support for a major news outlet?

    3. Re:No more money for Sony by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      I recently got a Co-Worker to return a Sony Network Walkman, but it was before the DRM fiasco. I do have everyone in the office avoiding Sony CDs now however.

      Jaysyn

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    4. Re:No more money for Sony by Xarius · · Score: 1

      I have already steered a friend away from a Sony stereo to another brand, making it clear that Sony is not a good "citizen" and they would do well to stay clear of any Sony products.

      What makes you think Sony's Electronics division has anything to do with Sony's Music Label?

      I am thoroughly against Windows in general principle, and while I don't own one--I cerainly don't advise people against buying an XBOX simply because they have the same corporate label as Windows.

      Some people need to grow up and put their boycotts into perspective. Sony has their fingers in a hell of a lot of pies and it's unrealistic to try and boycott them.

      --
      C17H21NO4
    5. Re:No more money for Sony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the CEO let the music section do this, then he'd let the electronics section do something simmilar given the chance.

      If the 800 pound gorilla accidentally stands on you, you stay away from his arms too. Yes he may just have a bum leg, but more likely hes just a dangerous gorilla, and there are plenty of others to monkey around with.

    6. Re:No more money for Sony by Artifakt · · Score: 1

      It may be very effective at costing Sony money, maybe even millions. Sony will then turn around and blame the losses on piracy.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    7. Re:No more money for Sony by Artifakt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In fact, if Sony's hardware division loses marketshare, the board of directors will give more emphasis to the music division. They will pay higher saleries to the upper management of that division, give it a bigger budget, and so on.
                Sony needs to see hardware as a source of potential profits, and music, (especially DRM'ed music), as a source of losses that threaten to drag the whole company down. The lawsuits already filed and in process will definitely do that, if they don't grow big enough to actually destroy the company and not just threaten it. There is no way a huge fine from various state and national governments can be misinterpreted as either a general market condition, a consumer resonse to poor marketing, or piracy, so in this case, a boycott is superfluous at best and negative at worst.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    8. Re:No more money for Sony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, payback is a bitch.

      You mean, playback is a bitch, right?

    9. Re:No more money for Sony by e40 · · Score: 1

      There's another reason to steer people clear of Sony hardware: it sucks. In the 80's Sony made quality stuff. I still have (but no longer use) a Sony betamax deck. That thing that built like you wouldn't believe. The quality was really stunning.

      In the 90's I had a bunch of consumer electronics with the Sony brand just die, most shortly after the warranty period expired. It wasn't too long after that a few friends that were staunch Sony supporters did the same thing (mostly over laptops, though).

      Combine the low quality with the fact that Sony products are consistently overpriced (as much as 20% higher than equivalent other brands), this is really quite amazing.

      My hypothesis is they realized they could charge a premium based on their good name (from the 80s), all the while cutting costs to increase profit. This resulted in dramatically lower quality and them losing market share. They are but a shadow of what they used to be. Very sad.

    10. Re:No more money for Sony by HiThere · · Score: 1

      They have intentionally limited the avenues of communication. All that can be communicated is: "We will buy Sony" or "We won't buy Sony". If after this affair you continue to send the message "We will buy Sony", you can be certain that they will decide that it was the proper action for them to take.

      It's too bad that Sony hardware has to take the falls which Sony/BMG has earned, but that's the decision that Sony made. The channels of communication have been limited.

      Now I'll admit that I'm doing a part of the limiting. I've already stopped buying all music CDs in protest against the RIAA. But this doesn't mean I had already stopped buying all Sony products...I hadn't. I had still considered them an honorable company, that had just fallen in with some bad friends. They've taken the next step, so I've taken the next step, and will no longer either buy or reccommend Sony merchandise IN ANY VENUE. Not only do I hear many bad things about Sony, I also hear nothing good about them that hasn't been paid for...and I distrust paid ads.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    11. Re:No more money for Sony by Sven+The+Space+Monke · · Score: 1

      Well, I hope Sony's happy. I hope they saved themselves a fortune with this software. Because you can add me to the list of people who will never buy another Sony product. Considering that the company I work for is about to do an upgrade to a lot of our AV equipment (all consumer-line stuff), and it's my job to recommnd the equipment we buy, I can safely say that we're not getting Sony stuff. We were actually looking at getting some Sony stuff before (about $10 grand worth), but there's no way I'm letting that happen now (I was somewhat hesitant before given that Sony quality has dropped significantly over the last decade). I know that this is Sony BMG that did this, and it's a whole different division of Sony that makes their televisions and stereos and junk, but there's no way I'm gonna shake the right hand while the left hand tries to stab me in the face.

      --
      A man who can't pronouce "nuclear arsenal" shouldn't have one -sig ends here.
    12. Re:No more money for Sony by mrszilch · · Score: 1

      You're one person, I am too. It adds up. A co-worker asked my opinion of his pending digial camera purchase this week. I recommended against Sony & told him how I'd been burned with the DRM fiasco (2 CDs of each flavor). He's not considering any of the Sony cameras as a result. I'm done with Sony, all aspects. I do hope other people boycott Sony products, then maybe they won't be so arrogant in their treatment of their customers. Maybe.

  14. Re:Bad Music by FidelCatsro · · Score: 2

    I don't agree that anyone deserves to be owned , bar the creators of the DRM with a lawsuit.
    I may not like most of the music there and can see your point .Come on though ,how can you say everyone , Santana are still cool and are up there with Barry White on Music you play for romantic evenings

    --
    The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
  15. Buy it, then... by NoxNoctis · · Score: 1

    Go download the MP3's.

    --
    "You're awefully cute, but unfortunately for you, you're made of meat."
    1. Re:Buy it, then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, you're advocating:

      1) Buy CD
      2) Download mp3s by torrent
      3) Get prosecuted for copyright violations
      4) ???
      5) Profit (someone else's at your expense)

      Obviously, IANAL but if you download MP3s of a vinyl record or tape that you own there's a copyright violation. Won't this apply to CDs too? (I don't agree with this but other than offering fair use as an excuse anyone qualified to comment like to confirm either way)

    2. Re:Buy it, then... by NoxNoctis · · Score: 1

      The problem is this, the music industry sees P2P as being detrimental to their wallet size by nature. If I go out and buy a CD, I'm either going to rip each and every track of sound to my desktop as cute little MP3's, or go download a torrent of the tracks and the cover art. How that is a copyright violation is beyond me. I padded their wallets, gave the band their $0.50, and got the music I wanted. I really hate to say it, but fair use is my best friend.

      --
      "You're awefully cute, but unfortunately for you, you're made of meat."
    3. Re:Buy it, then... by budgenator · · Score: 1

      IANAL but as I understand it, if you have a legaly purchased LD or CD then your possession of a MP3 of the same music is a fair use, offering it to others isn't; time/media shifting and archival/working copies are fair use.

      The other thing I wonder about is it's my understanding that Canada has a media-tax to cover loses due to sharing, would this DRM thing make the Lable inelligable for that money?

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  16. Perhaps not (Was Re:Useful indeed) by Billosaur · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From EFF: "We're pleased that SONY BMG responded quickly and responsibly when we drew their attention to this security problem," said EFF staff attorney Kurt Opsahl. "Consumers should take immediate steps to protect their computers."

    As if Sony, which already has a boatload of negative publicity, could do anything else. I think even the stuffed shirts there must now realize that they can't let anything else fall through the cracks or their music business might collapse. Don't be surprised in Sony divests itself of BMG music at some point in the future, to keep from losing customers for its home electronics business.

    --
    GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    1. Re:Perhaps not (Was Re:Useful indeed) by CaptainZapp · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Most surprising is the change of Tune of Mr. Hesse, from:

      "Users don't know what a rootkit is so why should they care"

      to

      "We are taking the concerns of our customers very seriously, blahblahblah"

      Could it be that Mr. Hesse is full of shit?

      --
      ich bin der musikant

      mit taschenrechner in der hand

      kraftwerk

    2. Re:Perhaps not (Was Re:Useful indeed) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Don't be surprised in Sony divests itself of BMG music at some point in the future, to keep from losing customers for its home electronics business.

      They already lost me. And when a company loses my business, they lose it permanently.

      I had a Technics CD player in the mid-80's that had to be fixed repeatedly for the same problem under warranty. When the problem recurred shortly after the unit went out of warranty and they refused to fix or replace it, I sent a polite letter to the head of Panasonic USA explaining the situation and telling them that if they didn't replace the unit I'd never buy a another Panasonic product. They declined to fix or replace the unit and twenty years later, I still don't have another Panasonic product.

      You can be sure that there will never be a Sony product in my house in the future.

      Of course, this could be their attempt to implement DRM by fear. If your PC gets compromised every time you put a Sony audio disk in the drive, maybe you'll stop doing it. If you don't put the CD in your PC, they don't have to worry about you copying it.

    3. Re:Perhaps not (Was Re:Useful indeed) by IAmTheDave · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Don't be surprised in Sony divests itself of BMG music at some point in the future, to keep from losing customers for its home electronics business.

      Why, because Sony's other electronics shops won't be including any DRM built in, like DRM on HDMI and new high def TVs, DRM in new Blu-Ray DVD players, DRM in game machines and on game discs, DRM on Blu-Ray discs... I can almost guarentee that some of this DRM will prevent users from using the content they purchase the way they want to use it. Sony needs not to divest itself of BMG as a solution, because the problem exists at a much higher level - the perception that DRM is a "Good Thing." Until they resolve THAT issue, Sony is in for some hurt.

      --
      Excuse my speling.
      Making The Bar Project
    4. Re:Perhaps not (Was Re:Useful indeed) by pete6677 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I had a similar experience with a fairly new Sony monitor. Even though it was under warranty, they tried to make excuses about why the repair wouldn't be covered. After much pulling of teeth, I finally got it repaired 3 months later. No more Sony products for me. They have run their formerly good name into the ground.

    5. Re:Perhaps not (Was Re:Useful indeed) by chrish · · Score: 5, Funny

      To answer a question with another question:

      Is he a corporate executive?

      --
      - chrish
    6. Re:Perhaps not (Was Re:Useful indeed) by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      As if Sony, which already has a boatload of negative publicity, could do anything else.

      It's the carrot and stick routine. If you fix the hole we will give you the carrot [say nice things about you] but if you don't say nice things about us we will beat you with the stick [help file a class action lawsuit, tell everyone we warned you about the hole ahead of time, rape your cattle, ride off on your women, poison your wells, and sow your ground with salt.]

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:Perhaps not (Was Re:Useful indeed) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you want to buy a duck?

    8. Re:Perhaps not (Was Re:Useful indeed) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      similar thing happened to me - I bought a Vaio from their 'Sonystyle' online store and paid for the 3 year extended warranty, when the time came to use it (2.5 years into the period) Sony wouldn't honor it because it was offered by 'sonystyle' who had bought it through some 3rd party, who when called sent me back to sony, in the end I managed to get them to open a trouble ticket and send me a box to return it in - the box never arrived

      Before this, and the recent DRM crap, I was something of a Sony fan - our previously all-Sony home entertainment centre is now graced with a $4000 Toshiba LCD TV

    9. Re:Perhaps not (Was Re:Useful indeed) by JoshWurzel · · Score: 1

      Historically, Sony has been a never-ending battle between the hardware divisions wanting to make products that don't suck and the content divisions not letting them. If they spin off BMG, the engineers might grow a pair and start making cool products again, which might even mean drm free.

      I wouldn't hold my breath, though.

    10. Re:Perhaps not (Was Re:Useful indeed) by Scarletdown · · Score: 1
      rape your cattle, ride off on your women


      You disgusting perv! It's supposed to be rape your horses and ride off on your women. ;)

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    11. Re:Perhaps not (Was Re:Useful indeed) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it can't play in a PC it can't play in my home. That's why there are no original recent (post-2000) major label releases in my home. Copied music, just like copied software, has fewer headaches.

      I find the software and music industry's business strategy intriguing - punish your customers for buying your product. I must have missed that class at business school.

    12. Re:Perhaps not (Was Re:Useful indeed) by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 1
      Could it be that Mr. Hesse is full of shit?
      Naw ... he's probably just infected with some sort of rootkit.
  17. You know... by Pac · · Score: 1

    I understand it is supposed to be a joke, but I can't help being amazed by the fact that I can recognize exactly two artists from your list, Britney and Santana. And the former just because she's a famous TV/news celebrity, I have never really listened to anything from her, except the occasional unnoteworthy clip. I own some songs/cds from Santana.

    Maybe I should spend some time listening to some top-40 radios. But then again, maybe not.

    1. Re:You know... by Renegade+Lisp · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Maybe I should spend some time listening to some top-40 radios. But then again, maybe not.

      You might wanna check out last.fm instead. Not exactly to get more top-40-ish in your musical taste, but to find all sorts of cool music you would never come across otherwise. Just type the names of those bands you don't know into their interface, and listen to some preview tracks. Or let them analyze your listening habits and suggest music to you. They even give you your own personalized radio station.

      No, I'm not affiliated with them, just an amazed user for a couple of weeks now.

    2. Re:You know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pandora kicks ass too.

    3. Re:You know... by imadork · · Score: 1

      I can only assume, due to your 4-digit ID, that you are like me, and have a 2-digit Age whose first digit is "3" or higher. We're just getting old, that's all. Top-40 radio is not aimed at us. We'll just stick to the "Best of 60's, 70's, and 80's" stations and wonder why the new acts can't all sound like Lionel Richie or Billy Ocean.

    4. Re:You know... by welsh+git · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised you haven't heard of "Various" - that band seems to be everywhere!

      --
      Sig out of date
  18. Here's another by Yolegoman · · Score: 2, Funny

    Switchfoot - Nothing is Sony

    1. Re:Here's another by ettlz · · Score: 1

      Maybe Wheatus should bundle disinfection tools on Suck Fony.

  19. Re:Bad Music by Flyboy+Connor · · Score: 3, Funny
    ...you play for romantic evenings

    You must be new here.

  20. Onion article by BushCheney08 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    --
    Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
    1. Re:Onion article by spoonyfork · · Score: 1
      The recording companies are getting closer to this than you think. Very recently the developer of pearLyrics (software that displays the lyrics of the currently-playing track in iTunes) was recently sent a cease and desist letter from Warner/Chappell Music Limited so the developer pulled the software rather than risk a lawsuit. PearLyrics gets the lyrics from the ID3 tag in the mp3 file, or if they aren't in there, it searches for them on a few different web sites, and then saves them into the mp3s. All it does is essentially what a person can do legally with a search engine and mp3 editor.

      I guess this means it is legal to listen to lyrics but illegal to read them.

      --
      Speak truth to power.
  21. Re:Bad Music by Chaffar · · Score: 2, Funny
    Come on though ,how can you say everyone , Santana are still cool and are up there with Barry White on Music you play for romantic evenings

    On romantic evenings I turn off the music to make sure no one's home.

  22. Now lets see by Ilex · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I could drive into town and spend £12/$12 on a DRM'd malware infected CD which may or may not play in my cars CD player / Ipod

    Or

    Sit here and rip the whole thing off the net for free and burn it to CD and copy it to my IPod.
    <sarcasm>
    Yeah DRM is a great way to stop piracy.
    </sarcasm>
    Maybe they should try offering value for money instead.
    1. Re:Now lets see by itchy92 · · Score: 1

      I could drive into town and spend £12/$12 on a DRM'd malware infected CD which may or may not play in my cars CD player / Ipod..... Maybe they should try offering value for money instead.

      Well, geez, they already threw in a free rootkit! What more do you want?

      --
      Slashdot: News for nerds. Stuff tha-- MICRO$OFT IS THE DEVIL!!1
  23. The only real fix ... by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sony is really setting DRM and copy-protection back by several years. And with each annoucement, they are making more and more people dislike DRM. That's not a bad thing, I suppose, but they're making it painfully obvious that the only fix for this is the complete removal of the software for people's systems with instructions on how to prevent the software from being loaded again in the future. (Sadly, a huge number of people don't know about the Shift key as an autorun disabler.)

    Frankly, I want to see a major mea culpa from Sony on just about every TV and radio station that targets the audience from all of those DRMed audio CDs complete with previous said instructions and a promise (that will be kept) that such DRM techniques will never be used in the future.

    Considering that even artists themselves are starting to fight back against DRM stating that it does nothing but hurt the fans, which is true, it's about time for the heads of these companies to realize that Sony has crossed the line and that DRM for audio CDs is not only useless but can have dire consequences. I'm not going to use that silly "information wants to be free" dogma that is used too often on /. but it's become clear that negative reactions like DRM are not what keep CD sales going.

    Maybe they should - gasp! - try adding value that the customer wants and cannot get over the Internet through downloading rather than trying to add chains to a product that we want to legally buy. For example:
    * Buy the CD and get the concert DVD for 1/2 price
    * Buy the CD and get a discount on concert tickets and merchandise
    * Buy the CD and accumulate points that can be redeemed for other items

    Tactics like these, where items that cannot be downloaded are offered as incentive, is a much better alternative to increase sales than pissing off the customer base by nefarious methods such as DRM. This is particularly true because DRM can be defeated by one simple method: CD line out --> PC line in.

    In short, make it worth my while to buy the CD and not download it. DRM, particularly the kind that Sony implemented, does the opposite.

    --
    The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
    1. Re:The only real fix ... by Tran · · Score: 1

      The problem is not limited to CDs and PCs. Apparently Sony's philosophy on DRM is prevasive throughout their product line. Maximum PC reports that Sony is actively patching their PSP via games to prevent 3rd party hacks. You want that shiny new game, well, the newest frimnware gets downloaded into your PSP and is required to run the new game. I had once thought that I may buy a PSP despite the debacle on the music side, thinking it was a music side issue/philosophy only. Not anymore.

    2. Re:The only real fix ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CD out to Line in is not defeating DRM, it is making an analog recording instead a digital copy.

    3. Re:The only real fix ... by Secrity · · Score: 1

      I would settle for true Compact Disks that contain good music and have imaginative covers and liners.

    4. Re:The only real fix ... by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 1

      Hey, let's not make TOO many demands of the current music industry. We want a resolution that's as least possible. Good music? Creative covers and liner notes? On the same CD? In the era a cookie-cutter, pop music? Good luck. ;)

      --
      The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
    5. Re:The only real fix ... by Secrity · · Score: 1

      Mea culpa, mea culpa ;)

    6. Re:The only real fix ... by itscolduphere · · Score: 1

      Maybe they should - gasp! - try adding value that the customer wants and cannot get over the Internet through downloading rather than trying to add chains to a product that we want to legally buy. For example:
      * Buy the CD and get the concert DVD for 1/2 price
      ...
      ...


      Already starting to see things like this. For instance, one of Dashboard Confessional's albums comes with their MTV2 Album Covers performance on DVD. I've seen several concert DVDs lately which also include DVDs of at least portions of the concert (OAR, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy are two that are sitting on my shelf). Rob Zombie's Past, Present, Future CD (AKA greatest hits) came with a DVD of, if not all, at least most of his music videos.

      Granted, once these things are mass-produced on DVD you can't assume they aren't available for download for free (someone will rip them), but I do see it as a value-add that makes the CD worth buying. IIRC none of these CD's were any more expensive than a normal CD with nothing additional included.

    7. Re:The only real fix ... by welsh+git · · Score: 1

      > CD out to Line in is not defeating DRM, it is making an analog recording instead a digital copy.

      Ah, but this is so overhyped as a bad thing.

      Why is 'keeping it digital' so important, when 99% of people then mangle those digital bits with a poorly ripped 128Kbs (or less!) mp3 ?

      Unless you are going to leave it uncompressed, or use something like FLAC, it's a moot point.

      A cd out to line-in will generally produce a very good copy - generally much better than the DRM version that the companies supply as an alternative.

      I feel generally, with low quality mp3 players, and badly ripped tracks, people these days are generally much more accepting of low quality than they were 'in my day'.

      In my day, people moaned about CD digital not being accurate enough. If I copied a CD onto an analogue cassette, with semi-reasonable equipment, the quality would be better than most mp3's etc. around these days.

      And, a CD -> Line-in doesn't even have to suffer from the analogue-tape part!

      What it comes down to, is it doesn't matter WHAT DRM is put on a file.. As long as the file is playable through your loudspeakers, and sounds ok, then a first generation digital->analogue->digital copy will be fine.

      --
      Sig out of date
    8. Re:The only real fix ... by welsh+git · · Score: 1

      A nice idea for adding value to the physical CD purchase.

      Though, it doesn't even have to go this far.

      A decent booklet, maybe, with some band photos, lyrics etc. would go a long way to add value, at no major cost

      --
      Sig out of date
    9. Re:The only real fix ... by SScorpio · · Score: 1
      The PSP patch isn't about DRM to music as it is preventing software hacks much like a modchip on a console provides. Users have found hacks in older firmware revisions that allow them to run homebrew software. Sure it's cool and the users can play old NES and SNES games and such on their PSP; however, the problem is that they can rip PSP games and play them off Memory Sticks with the same exploits.

      So yes the whole music DRM thing does suck, but the PSP firmware updates are not related.

  24. iSecPartners by under_score · · Score: 2, Informative

    FWIW, I have known one of the founding partners at iSec, Jesse Burns, since high school. He's a very very smart guy with almost instinctual understanding of security issues and problems. This is a shameless plug for my friend's company: they're great and you'd do well to hire them if you want a good security audit or training done.

  25. Gross misconduct by ilovegeorgebush · · Score: 0, Troll

    "The EFF and iSEC delayed disclosing the problem until SunnComm could develop a fix"

    In my opinion, this is a severe mistake. With all the publicity that this attrocious farse that is the rootkit, was getting, they ran the risk of knowing about a security hole, not letting people know, and allowing millions of users to be vulnerable because of their big bro mentality.
    Its shocking.

    1. Re:Gross misconduct by corellon13 · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think that this is one of the rare moments they were trying to look out for their users. Announcing the exploit without a fix would result in letting every 13+ old kid with a computer and no life go ahead and see how many computers you can hack while you can.

      I mean, I assume this happens all the time with lots of software. I find it hard to believe that M$ and other software companies don't know about many of the vulnerabilities well before the public is alerted. I would love to hear from anybody with personal experience regarding known vulnerabilities and the timing around notifying the public, and providing a fix.

      --
      Do what is right and let the consequence follow
  26. iSec Partners are all ex-@stake by QuantGuy · · Score: 1

    They left @stake en masse when the company was acquired by Symantec in 2004, and in so doing decimated the San Francisco office. Every one of the folks at iSec is absolutely top-notch. And no, I'm not astroturfing...

  27. Funny but I feel safer with "disreputable" sources by guidryp · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Corporations are sometimes their own worse enemy. It has gotten to the point that I feel safer downloading my music from complete strangers on the internet than buying it in a store.

    The other farce in this fiasco is that these methods of protection are so easy to defeat that "anyone" who actually uploads music would not be slowed down for even a second.

    So we have an extreme example of a rights denial system that penalizes in the extreme the clueless who never were going to upload anyway, and does nothing, not one iota, to stop uploaders.

    Earth to idiots at corp HQ. Sony will feel the pain for years to come on this one. If I were an artist, I would be looking for a "no DRM" clause in my contracts when dealing with these morons.

  28. EFF by Kev_Stewart · · Score: 5, Funny

    Never underestimate the awesome power of pale vegetarian lawyers.

  29. Sony Software by Ankou · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This may be a little off topic, but with this whole Sony root kit thing has anyone checked their Sony software lines for the same exploits? I had been an avid user of Sony Vegas software since they bought out Sonic Foundry, but now I am scared to install it again. There goes about 400 dollars just cuase I lost trust for Sony. It was great software much faster and more stable than Premier Pro, probably becuase Sony didn't write it. It makes you wonder what else they have corrupted in their control game.

    1. Re:Sony Software by SilverspurG · · Score: 1

      If you have the time and expertise you can install it within a virtual machine or WINE and monitor network traffic from the host environment. I wouldn't write that $400 off so quickly.

      --
      fast as fast can be. you'll never catch me.
    2. Re:Sony Software by Ankou · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Good call, that may work for network trasmisions, but there are other possible scenarios to take into consideration. For instance, how do I know if when I create a training video and burn it with their software, I dont propagate their root kit on that CD/DVD. The software does come with all kinds of protection options, so it isn't crazy to think of that kind of scenario. You are right 400 dollars isn't something to write off so fast. Imagine though being sued later by a client who's computer got infected with one of those videos. This is all hypothetical, just something to consider.

    3. Re:Sony Software by jackbird · · Score: 3, Funny

      I upgraded to vegas 6.0c about 3 days before the rootkit story broke. I checked my system for the $sys$ rootkit according to the Sysinternals site and found nothing.

    4. Re:Sony Software by jackbird · · Score: 1

      how do I know if when I create a training video and burn it with their software, I dont propagate their root kit on that CD/DVD? Because all DVD architect creates is VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders per the DVD spec. You can examine the file structure yourself, both before and after burning. If you're going to be paranoid, at least know what you're talking about.

    5. Re:Sony Software by TractorBarry · · Score: 1

      Well I'm still using version 5.0 (the last pre Sony release) and I kept thinking I'd buy an upgrade when funds allowed (assuming of course I can actually get an upgrade from 5.0 to 7.0...)

      But after Sonys rootkit fiasco I'm not buying anything from any of their divisions ever again. Never. No PS2, no hi-fi, no TV, nothing, nada.

      So I'll just stick with version 5.0 thanks.

      --
      Sky subscribers are morons. They pay to be advertised at !
    6. Re:Sony Software by SilverspurG · · Score: 1

      CDs have a boot sector.

      --
      fast as fast can be. you'll never catch me.
    7. Re:Sony Software by jackbird · · Score: 1

      OK, if you're that paranoid, burn the master image once it's prepped with something else like Nero or Roxio. It's a hierarchy of folders, not an ISO.

    8. Re:Sony Software by SilverspurG · · Score: 1

      What's to say Nero and Roxio aren't doing it, too? :)

      --
      fast as fast can be. you'll never catch me.
    9. Re:Sony Software by HiThere · · Score: 1

      For that matter, why do the burning on MSWind? Linux has plenty of software that burns CDs...and if you are just copying the audio tracks from a master, it should be dead simple.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  30. Re:Everyone should have known... by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sauerbraten and sashimi?

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  31. Neat - they're gonna sue people for *talking*!!! by bjanz · · Score: 1

    Wow -- I can see it now: people sitting around at Starbuck's all wearing black cardboard rectangles across their eyes so the security cameras can't tell who they are while they talk about the latest music releases! SHEESH!!! I guess the answer is to NOT tell anyone about ANYTHING a major label does anymore, and stick to indie labels instead (better music anyhow). The majors haven't figured it out yet: vertical marketing only works for a little while. If all you sell is rap, hip-hop, and Britney Spears - without developing *new* talent and taking risks - you'll suffer the same fate as Columbia and WB: you'll either get bought or collapse. Best 2 new groups I've heard lately were Reverend Glasseye's "Our Lady of the Broken Spine" and Snake River Conspiracy's "Sonic Jihad", both on indie labels. Haven't bought a major label album in... shit... months... \burt

    --
    There is no such thing as bad weather - only inappropriate clothing.
  32. Re:Bad Music by FidelCatsro · · Score: 1

    Oye como va my right-hand
    Bueno pa gosar myself

    --
    The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
  33. Favorite example of Sony DRM-infected CD: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Our Lady Peace: Healthy In Paranoid Times

  34. 50 Titles, not 27 by saskboy · · Score: 1

    27 + 23 Canadian discs [some same artist] = 50 affected titles. You can figure out how many unique artists will be pissed off at Sony for this latest blunder...

    http://www.sonybmg.com/mediamax/titles.html

    --
    Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
  35. Wake up Artists by 4Dmonkey · · Score: 2, Informative

    Someone should go and tell the artists that they dont need these greedy evil middlemen to sell their music nowadays. They can simply create their own portals.
    That should solve a lot of problems.

    --
    God created man in his own image, but somehow he evolved into a hairless monkey.
  36. Re:Bad Music by xtracto · · Score: 1

    On romantic evenings, I turn up the music volume to make shure the neighbors don't know what I am doing.

    --
    Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
  37. Did you catch the best part? by rbochan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    According to this report at CNET,
    "Sony said it will notify customers though a banner advertisement directly in the SunnComm software"

    So now you get banner ads with your audio cd+DRM.
    Nice.

    --
    ...Rob
    The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
    1. Re:Did you catch the best part? by tutori · · Score: 1

      Punch the monkey to waive your right to sue?

    2. Re:Did you catch the best part? by yfkar · · Score: 1

      Yes, they've been doing that quite some while in their player software.

    3. Re:Did you catch the best part? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I for one LOVE paying for the right to see ads. Why would I ever want to listen to my music in my ad-free audio-player of choice, when I can listen to it in a DRM-protected, lossy format in an ad-laden player straight from Sony. I've never seen their player software, but I image it is a bloated and flashy looking thing with only the bare minimum of useful functionality.

    4. Re:Did you catch the best part? by wkitchen · · Score: 1

      Here's the banner:

      WARNING!

      Your computer may be infected with SPYWARE!

      Click here for a FREE fix!

  38. The patch is flawed by Ch*mp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The patch prevents you from 'innocultating' your PC against the risk of future 'infection'.

    The gist of this press release is that I now have to keep a list of all the titles that might be affected just in case I, or anyone in my family decides to buy a MediaMax protected CD (or are given one as a gift) - Yes you can still buy a flawed CD. Even if Sony issues a recall on ALL affected CDs that does not give me 100% protection from this mess.

    I now have to keep monitoring my PC forever more in case someone obtains an 'original' CD with the flawed DRM.

    How exactly is this announcement and patch supposed to help me?

    - All they've done is made my home admin tasks more complicated by heaping another problem onto me and they haven't given me an adequate solution.

    1. Re:The patch is flawed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't run as administrator and you can't get it. Do you log into your linux box as root all the time?

    2. Re:The patch is flawed by quokkapox · · Score: 1
      just in case I, or anyone in my family decides to buy a MediaMax protected CD (or are given one as a gift)

      Spread the word, CDs make crappy presents.

      If somebody gives you a CD for Xmas, simply refuse it like you would a moldy fruitcake.

      FWiW, I'm yet another person who'll never buy anything from Sony, ever again.

      --
      it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
    3. Re:The patch is flawed by Ch*mp · · Score: 1

      I don't and I'm careful that my wife and kids have limited accounts.
      But 99% of the general public don't knwo the difference.

      >> Don't run as administrator and you can't get it.

      That suggests that the DRM cannot install itself if you logon as a restricted user - that should defeat the DRM?!

      Anyone know if attempting to play a DRM'd CD as a restricted user prevents playback/ripping. I don't have any of the titles so I cannot tell.

      <sarcasm>
      There be a parental advirsory sticker that reads "Contains DRM - Do not play on administrative accounts"
      </sarcasm>

  39. Doubly Screwed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The most interesting part about the whole Sony BMG rootkit fiasco, and now this, is that it seems as if Sony is doubly screwed from now on, because whenever they put out a new product, it's going to be hacked from all sides, to find little holes like this. I'm sure there are plenty of other products out there that behave similarly or have holes in them, that are from other companies, and aren't getting exposed because they didn't piss off the internet community.

    It's this kind of backlash now that is bustin Sony, because anything they put out from now on better be bullet-proof, or else it will wind up being counterproductive

  40. Big List of DRM CDs? by Milican · · Score: 1

    Does anyone know if there is a website out there that has a list of all the DRMed CDs put out by Sony and others? I looked on Google, but didn't find anything...

    I would like to know so that I can make sure my dollars don't go to DRMed CDs.

    JOhn

    1. Re:Big List of DRM CDs? by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1
      Does anyone know if there is a website out there that has a list of all the DRMed CDs put out by Sony and others? I looked on Google, but didn't find anything...

      Try EFF.org.

      --
      "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    2. Re:Big List of DRM CDs? by spot35 · · Score: 3, Informative

      **Clicky - Google - Clicky**

      MediaMax titles @Sony BMG website

      XCP titles @SonyBMG website

    3. Re:Big List of DRM CDs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      ...of all the DRMed CDs put out by Sony and others ?
      Re-read the question, those of you posting links to the list of Sony's defective titles. JOhn is -- and I am -- interested in a comprehensive list of titles, not just Sony's.
  41. Not far enough by Havenwar · · Score: 2, Funny

    Until they make a patch for the crappy music on most of those CD's, I'm not purchasing. Oh, and while they're at it, make a patch for their distribution, since it seems something is faulty with their current method of forcing me to walk to the store and buying the physical disc... when I don't even have a regular cd-audio player.

    Of course this is a needed step for the "average joe" out there that didn't even know he got a malicious rootkit for free when playing a cd on his pc, but then again, does this average joe even know there is a patch out?

    as for the rest of us... too little, too late.
    they have to start with digital distribution without drm, or they will fail.

  42. You know someone will do this. :) by Benanov · · Score: 1

    My friend, that is social engineering at its finest. Hats off to you. :)

  43. DRM by Kaenneth · · Score: 3, Funny

    Some people say 'Digital Rights Managment' is good for the consumer.

    Some doctors used to recommend cigarettes.

  44. sony logo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Am I the only one who was freaked out that they had put a picture of the sony logo in place of the word sony, until reading the next line and realising that what I was seeing was the badly thought through section logo.

  45. Apple/iTunes - "the Safe way to buy music" by quokkapox · · Score: 1

    Apple could really capitalize on this whole Sony Rootkit DRM fiasco by advertising iTunes as the only "safe" way to get your music - they REALLY could clean up by finding a way to enable users to buy the entire album all at once instead of individual songs, for the same price as the typical retail physical CD.

    --
    it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
    1. Re:Apple/iTunes - "the Safe way to buy music" by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      they REALLY could clean up by finding a way to enable users to buy the entire album all at once instead of individual songs, for the same price as the typical retail physical CD.

      CDs on iTunes (except a few prima-donna artists) are $9.99. That's already cheaper than the typical retail CD. And if they have fewer than 10 tracks, they are cheaper than $9.99.

  46. How About a Removal Tool Instead! by Junior+Samples · · Score: 2, Informative

    I don't want a security patch for Sony's DRM malware. Just give me a removal tool and the problem will go away on it's own.

    1. Re:How About a Removal Tool Instead! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure:

      1) c/: fdisk
      2)install linux flavour of choice.

      Some will disagree, but how many Linux/Mac/BSD users do you know that have the same level of difficulty with their computers that windows users do?

    2. Re:How About a Removal Tool Instead! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "c:\" would be the correct syntax...

  47. Third party? by tehshen · · Score: 3, Funny

    The vulnerability involves a directory installed on users' computers by the MediaMax software that could allow a third party to gain control over the affected Windows PC.

    This is Windows we're talking about; I wouldn't be surprised if we're on to the seventh or eighty party by now.

    --
    Guy asked me for a quarter for a cup of coffee. So I bit him.
  48. Not just age, also artificial narrowing of choices by Morgaine · · Score: 4, Informative

    why the new acts can't all sound like Lionel Richie or Billy Ocean.

    I think that you missed the poster's point, since you mention old pop chart stars. The problem isn't that today's pop charts don't feature yesterday's pop chart music nor soundalikes --- expecting that would be totally dumb.

    The problem is that today the music scene is ruled 99% by the pop charts as a result of the ruthless efficiency of the Big Business side of the music industry, to the extent that almost all other musical styles are marginalized to near extinction. Musicians no longer come out of art school wanting to do something novel for their own niche audience; greed has overcome artistic integrity.

    Back in the day, the studios and labels were comparatively amateurish and ineffective, so public tastes were strongly influenced by radio station jockeys, through student union gigs/concerts, and by music tabloid reviews of live acts. These have almost no effect today. The image makers and immense marketting machine hold the scene in a vice-like grip.

    So it's not old age, only. It's also that musical horizons have been slammed down tight all around us, with only a few wonderful exceptions to the rule offering a temporary escape.

    --
    "The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
  49. Gives electronics arm of Sony more power by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    One nice side effect of the Sony fiasco is that the electroncs arm now has more leverage within the company - Sony is a company torn between what it can do via home electronics, and what it doesn't want to do from the media arm.

    With the media arm somewhat shamed, the electronics arm has a stronger case for doing things that are bit more open.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  50. No way that article was serious by Anthracks · · Score: 1

    I can't believe people are taking that article seriously. It has to be some sort of bizarre joke on the part of The Register. Ignoring the ridiculous premise, take a look at the content of the article. It's written by someone calling himself "Bonhomie Snoutintroff", which should give you an idea of what to expect. He calls the EFF "pale vegetarians", and the media "pigopolists". What does that even mean? At the end of the article, there is a registered trademark symbol for no reason.

    Here is the Register's summary of Mr. Snoutinroff's career: "Bonhomie Snoutintroff is a plain-spoken strong leader in cyberspace. He did poorly in school but his family is rich and well connected, so he's served as CEO of numerous, well-known Internet ventures that for various reasons unrelated to his forward-looking guidance no longer exist. He developed a cocaine and alcohol problem, although he refuses to dwell on the past: his mission is to bring honor and dignity to the IT profession. His keen insight as a global techno-visionary is matched only by his Christian humility."

    Google has exactly one other article written by Mr. Snoutinroff (from 2000) which is equally ridiculous.

    At least to me, it seems like someone at the Register got bored and somehow Slashdot turned it into a crusade. Which I guess really shouldn't come as a surprise : ).

    --
    Rock over London, Rock on Chicago. Wheaties: Breakfast of Champions.
    1. Re:No way that article was serious by welsh+git · · Score: 1

      Maybe the article was written with humour and flame-bait, and maybe it was written in a way to maximise slashdot potential, but I don't think The Register would make up something like this, being so subtle.

      For one thing, I'm sure Sony would sue their arses.

      Anyway, it took 5 seconds to check the EFF website, and it is indeed real:

      See here

      --
      Sig out of date
    2. Re:No way that article was serious by budgenator · · Score: 2, Insightful
      in other news from the register
      • Celine Dion fights mutant rats on Xbox 360
      • Mutant rats menace Belfast
      • Killer squirrel pack guts dog
      • Youths strap hamster to rocket
      • Al-Qaeda probes enemy on Google Earth
      • Japan triumphs with MP3 toilet seat
      • Entire porn outfit for sale on eBay
      • Slashdot practises safe sex
      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    3. Re:No way that article was serious by cogg · · Score: 1
      At the end of the article, there is a registered trademark symbol for no reason.
      The Register puts the registered trademark symbol at the end of all their articles. In context it is not a registered trademark symbol, more a sign off or end of article notice.
      --
      "Never 'clear the air'. Instead, investigate all the subtle nuances of the word 'fester'." - R. Candappa
    4. Re:No way that article was serious by HiThere · · Score: 1

      The Register had *better* be serious. Otherwise they have laid themselves open to a rather large suit from Sony.

      Given Sony's recent actions I, at least, am going to believe the article until it is officially retracted...and then I'll be speculative. If Sony hadn't already lost my business, this would have completed the transition, and I'm certain that there are those who *have* been convinced by this. If it's false, then that's a valid tort (i.e., libel for purposed of damaging their business -- which is worse than simple libel [IANAL]).

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  51. One thing that isn't clear in this announcement: by merc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The article states that " SunnComm is offering a patch to fix a security vulnerability with its MediaMax Version 5 content protection software on 27 SONY BMG CDs. "

    Does this mean that once the SunnComm DRM software is patched it will go back to working as designed -- that is, do the DRM restrictions continue to constrain the end users' freedoms to use the music? Is the SunnComm software "fixed" or removed?

    I would have been happier to have heard they designed a removal tool.

    *grumblecakes*

    --
    It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
  52. Re:Neat - they're gonna sue people for *talking*!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whooooosh!

  53. The Hits Just Keep On Coming by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 3, Insightful
    SunnComm is offering a patch to fix a security vulnerability with its MediaMax Version 5 content protection software on 27 SONY BMG CDs.

    I am still waiting to see how you patch a CD -- short of replacing it entirely, that is.

    For now, I wouldn't trust Sony to patch my Tinkertoys properly, let alone my computer.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  54. Re:Bad Music by 91degrees · · Score: 1

    I've never really understood the GP's attitude. If people actually do like unsophisticated mass market stuff, and enjoy the music, why not let them? They're happy and it's not hurting anyone.

  55. You wish to redefine "pedantic", I take it? by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 1

    What a ridiculous reply. Absolutely ridiculous.

    A. With good cables and equipment, the dreaded "analog" copy will be just as good as the digital copy. {Insert various analog/digital arguments here.}

    B. DRM is still GONE. You made a CD via wave or MP3s files. Therefore, you made a duplicate of the CD without DRM. Ergo, DRM is defeated. No, it's not a precious 1:1 copy that you anti-analog types like to espouse; however, it is still a completely legitimate copy of that CD without DRM.

    Sheesh.

    --
    The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
  56. bollocks by RMH101 · · Score: 1

    it's all still sony, and i'd still rather teabag a mime (http://us.gizmodo.com/gadgets/pi5send5_f-thumb.jp g) than spend any more money with them. what are you going to do, work towards a boycott of a subset of their company and reduce the effectiveness of that boycott, or boycott the whole company and ask others to do likewise?

  57. Re:Neat - they're gonna sue people for *talking*!! by RMH101 · · Score: 1

    um, irony? it's the onion, man.

  58. Re:Apple/iTunes - "the Safe way to buy music" LESS by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Insightful
    finding a way to enable users to buy the entire album all at once instead of individual songs, for the same price as the typical retail physical CD.

    I think I should be paying less than in-store retail when I download my CD album. After all, in addition to the content I'm paying for my bandwidth to download it, my time in downloading, my hard drive space to store it on, any cover art or inserts that I have to print myself, as well as the blank CD I burn to play it outside of my computer and the jewel case I need to buy to store it in.

    The record company selling me this album does not have pressing, materials, distribution, or record retailer profits to pay in the process.

    So stop encouraging record companies to think they can sell me less for the same price! They're already doing that well enough on their own.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  59. zealots suck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Compare this with the original story from The Register, where the author was offering his viewpoint in absolute terms.

    How is this any different than Slashdot?

    The difference between the two is night and day.

    You mean the difference between a brown turd and a black turd?

    To reiterate, The Register article presented a viewpoint, the Slashdot article asked if The Register article was correct in its conclusions.

    I can show you plenty of articles where the editor or submitter added their own opinion or conclusion to the story. On Slashdot.

    1. Re:zealots suck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I can show you plenty of articles where the editor or submitter added their own opinion or conclusion to the story. On Slashdot.
      We're not talking about other stories, we're talking about the story titled, "Ask Slashdot: Has The EFF Outlived It's Usefuleness". I'm not disputing that Slashdot sometimes editorialises I'm saying that the editorial in this case was written by The Register and not Slashdot.

      Are you really have difficulty understanding that the Slashdot article was simply linking to The Register story and asking for opinion on it or are you just being obtuse?
  60. Seems to be some confusion here... by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is not the "rootkit" DRM software that were talking about here. This is the other DRM crapware that Sony/BMG has on its discs. I buy a moderate amount of music on CDs, then rip them to MP3s to play on my Rio and car stereo. I was planning to buy Carlos Santana's new disc when this whole flap came up. I checked, saw that Santana wasn't on the rootkit list, and briefly considered buying it, although I have avoided all DRMed music to this point. No worries, I'll rip it on my Linux box anyway.

    I changed my mind, and I'm glad I did. One less bit of malware in the stream of commerce. I did go to Carlos' website and told them I had decided not to buy the disc and why. From the notes there, it seems they have been getting a lot of that. This may be the most effective way to deal with this issue. Tell the artists that you will not buy their art, if it comes packaged with such crap.

    --
    Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    1. Re:Seems to be some confusion here... by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Wait, I'm confused. Santana isn't on the list of CDs containing rootkits, so it's safe to buy and use... but you sent a letter to Santana saying you won't buy one regardless?

    2. Re:Seems to be some confusion here... by guidryp · · Score: 1

      Santana has the Suncomm protection referred to in this current slashdot article. While it is not a rootkit, it still more DRM crap with yet another security hole.

  61. Re:Build it into the OS (+5 Troll) by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 1

    Here is an old school 5, troll comment, courtesy of wikipedia. It's about a year and half old, and unfortunately, doesn't show how it was moderated. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=107840&cid=917 5401

  62. Re:Bad Music by kimvette · · Score: 1

    If you move out of your parents' basement you won't have to worry about their being home. (kidding, only kidding!)

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  63. Re:Bad Music by Chaffar · · Score: 2, Funny
    If you move out of your parents' basement you won't have to worry about their being home.

    Wow, a woman with a fast car, uses Linux, AND a sharp sense of humour... No doubt about it, you must be very ugly :D

    (kidding, only kidding!)

  64. Accountability? by burrows · · Score: 1

    It's great to see EFF helping Sony, and Sony playing nice. It would be especially nice to see Sony giving back to the EFF...

    Now that would be some accountability.

  65. Sure bash sony BUT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How long until people start examining music from the other music labels for similair malware?

  66. Instead of getting DRM ridden music with holes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Click here for a permanent 'DRM patch'. ;)

  67. Confusing the Consumer by micron · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I walked in to my local record store TWO DAYS ago with the Sony/BMG list of XCP titles. I asked the counter clerk if they had pulled the titles yet.

    The response was, "Which one do you want".

    The clerk knew of the issue. He even helped me confirm that the catalog number for the disk was a match. The titles were still on the shelves for sale. The store was replacing the disks as new disks came in from Sony.

    Two out of three record stores that I checked that day had the titles available for purchase.

    This is a recall?

    Also, it is not as if you can look on the spine of the CD to find out that it is a Sony disk. These disks are sold under other label names. I believe that the one I got was an Electra. Sony/BMG is in the really fine print on the back, as well as the XPC URL.

    1. Re:Confusing the Consumer by TheDormouse · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The retailer I worked for pulled all the copies the morning after the announcement. I know because I did it myself. It took 3 hours since many of these new titles were on multiple displays. And I had 10 cartons of daily shipment to process the same day.

      Thanks Sony.

    2. Re:Confusing the Consumer by fishbowl · · Score: 1


      >This is a recall?

      I missed the part where it became illegal for a retailer to sell the product.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    3. Re:Confusing the Consumer by HiThere · · Score: 1

      It's a CD that includes illegal code derived from GPL code, but for which the source is not being made available. Therefore it is illegal for it to be sold.

      This point may not be prosecuted by the owners of the code, but they could, if they chose, ONLY go after the retail vendors. That's the way the law is written. So, yes, it is illegal to sell those CDs, and potentially quite expensively so. $20,000 per infraction, or some such, after you have been warned (and Sony's notice probably constituted such a warning). Caution: IANAL.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    4. Re:Confusing the Consumer by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      >Therefore it is illegal for it to be sold.

      More realistically, it's potentially a civil infraction for which damages could be sought. It's not "illegal" until a court order is issued.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    5. Re:Confusing the Consumer by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Well, it's not a felony or a misdeameanor, but it *is* illegal. The court order, formally, is merely officially recognizing the fact, not creating it.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    6. Re:Confusing the Consumer by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      >Well, it's not a felony or a misdeameanor, but it *is* illegal.

      Maybe among armchair IANAL's, but you'd have a very hard time making the case that the retailer is liable in this instance. On one hand, he may be distributing matierial without a license to do so. On the other hand, you cannot simply shut down the business because you believe you've been damaged. File a motion for a TRO, if you're the copyright holder and you have evidence that your rights are being abridged.

      Civil liability is a strange machine, compared to criminal law. It is stupendously difficult to persuade a party to take action, if they ignore things like polite requests and C&D letters. You, the copyright holder, have the right for your distribution rights not to be abridged. They, the retailer, have rights that protect them from being forced to comply with arbitrary demands from all comers.

      So, yes, it may be illegal, but the retailer does not have to take any action until so ordered. A C&D letter is not an order, it's an impolite request.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  68. next on /. Barbwire for cds!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    megabux launches 'barbwire drm' on its cd's
    people complain of being cut as a result of using it in the fasion they where accustomed to.
    hackers report that gloves circumvent the security feature.
    megabux releases a 'patch of foam' to cover up the barbwire after you have bought it if you find its cut you...

    bollocks

  69. SunnComm DRM??? by caffeinatedOnline · · Score: 1

    And anyone expects anything less from the company that brought us DRM that can be circumvented by holding down the shift key when inserting a copy protected CD?

    --
    The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel...
  70. no copyright violation there by Sxooter · · Score: 1

    Sorry, but it is perfectly legal to copy your own cds and such and re-encode them for your own use. It's getting it from a friend that's illegal.

    Look up the home recording act or something like that, which clarified the position on home recordings and such.

    --

    --- It is not the things we do which we regret the most, but the things which we don't do.
  71. Patch suffers from same security flaws... by Robotech_Master · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...as previous patches. In other words, it leaves your computer even more vulnerable than before.

    Don't see any mention of this on the entire last page of comments listed most recently first, so I figured it was worth risking a possible karma hit for duplication.

    It seems Sony and SunComm just can't come up with a "real" fix to save their lives.

    --
    Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
  72. SONY: Some Operate, Not Yours. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had the same experience. My MD player from them had a circuit flaw where the Record button would activate by itself (there should have been a pull-up or pull-down resistor to keep it at the correct level). Worst case: it records over your MD until the battery dies. Best case: it wakes up, spins up the MD, senses the write-protect tab, powers down, and repeats until the battery is dead.

    SONY: Some Operate, Not Yours.

  73. New Icon? by htrp · · Score: 1

    Since sony seems to be showing up very often these days, shouldn't they get their very own icon?

    Something along the lines of MS-BORG would be a lot more interesting than a simple SONY graphic.

  74. Re:Funny but I feel safer with "disreputable" sour by SpecBear · · Score: 1

    The worst part about this isn't that clueless users get screwed. The worst part is that, clueless or not, it's the honest users who get screwed by this. These are people who would never pirate music not because they don't know how but because they believe it's wrong. They want to pay for legitimate copies of their music. They want to support their favorite bands. They want the label to want to put out that next album.

    Accessing illegally copied music is easier than ever and the risks are negligible. Yet these people still laid down their $15 to buy the music on Sony's terms. It's not anyone wants a freaking medal for obeying the law. I don't think it's too much for Joe User to ask that his computer not get 0wn3d when he plays a CD.

    Getting your content from anonymous criminals has been safer than getting it from corporations for a few years now. It's been over a decade since I had to deal with a virus infection that required a re-install of the operating system. Between anti-virus and anti-spyware software, you're pretty well covered. Stuff like Sony's DRM is even more dangerous because the people you pay to protect you from threats like these knew about Sony's DRM and did nothing about it.

  75. when will THEY stop? by petantik+f00l · · Score: 1

    I am sure that Sony is just protecting itself by working so cordially with the EFF but I must imagine that they don't want anymore bad publicity concerning the DRM technologies included in their music CDs. I suspect that there is going to be a mad rush everytime there is a new DRM software, to find the first security hole. Perhaps Sony is just the first in line to appreciate the backlash caused by unsafe software included in consumer products

  76. Yes, you are confused... by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

    Yes, you are confused. First4Internet's XCP is the "rootkit" installing DRM malware. The article here is talking about exploits using SunnComm's MediaMax Version 5. Santana's new album is "protected" with the SunComm software, not First4Internet's. Sony/BMG uses two different DRM packages. One installed a rootkit, the one discussed in this article allows an elevation of privilege attack. Up to today, it appeared that SunnComm's MediaMax Version 5, while a PITA, did not pose a security threat. Now we know different. Sony/BMG also publishes music CDs without either of the DRM packages. Caveat emptor

    --
    Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
  77. Too Late by fdiskne1 · · Score: 1

    Don't be surprised in Sony divests itself of BMG music at some point in the future, to keep from losing customers for its home electronics business

    I used to be pretty loyal to Sony. They were a provider of decent quality home electronics for me. I didn't need top of the line, but I didn't want crap either. Sony was a decent product at a decent price. I own a Sony Trinitron 32" television, a Sony DVD player and a Sony 19" CRT. Given that they were purchased a while back before price drops in recent years, that's $1500 worth of stuff I bought from them. Never again. Ever. I'm through with them and I'm telling everyone I know. I have a distribution list in my email program that I send out Sony updates to. No one I know that actually listens to my advice will purchase from them again either. Some will follow my advice, some may not, but at least they know. Regardless, given a choice, Sony won't be getting any more money from me.

    --
    But why is the rum gone?
  78. Re:Funny but I feel safer with "disreputable" sour by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I gotta agree with this. I still buy CDs most of the time (I'll copy from a friend occasionally, but I never download). I wanted the new John Mayer Trio album (supposedly he's going back to his blues roots and away from the pop crap...he's a helluva blues guitarist). I saw the Sony-BMG label and put it back. Makes me sad, because I think he's a good artist and I want to support him, but I'm not gonna give a company like Sony any more money.

  79. Did those CDs carry the logo? by Cardbox · · Score: 1

    Did the DRM-ed CDs have the "Compact Disc Digital Audio" logo on them?

    There have been reports that Philips will treat any use of the logo on CDs that don't conform to the Red Book standard as being trademark infringement.

    1. Re:Did those CDs carry the logo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't know, but that's no an issue in this case. The CDs are perfectly valid audio CDs - they just have a data track that autoplays when run on a Windows computer, installing the DRM software. They're not actually breaching the standard in this case.

  80. screw you all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We will DRM anything we damn well please. We're SONY and we're tired of taking your crap!!!

  81. blind by sacrilicious · · Score: 1
    Reliance on binaries WITH source is blind faith, too, if you can't read hundreds of thousands of lines of source yourself, since taking someone else's word for it is just as much "blind" faith.

    By the above logic, there's no difference between using code from a closed-source corporation or an open source corporation. Is it really all the same whether or not parts of the code have been scrutinized by people with no vested interest in locking you into vendor dependency? By people who have the same interest as you in the integrity of the code?

    Anyone who thinks these situations are equivalent is destined to do poorly.

    --
    - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
    1. Re:blind by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      By the above logic, there's no difference between using code from a closed-source corporation or an open source corporation.

      That was sort of the point.

      Is it really all the same whether or not parts of the code have been scrutinized by people with no vested interest in locking you into vendor dependency?

      Blind faith is blind faith. That's the point. Unless you can read code yourself, you're going to have to rely on someone else to do it for you. Which means you can choose a company, much like hiring a programmer, that does NOT have a history of using such lock-in tactics, and protect yourself without ever seeing the source itself.

    2. Re:blind by sacrilicious · · Score: 1
      Unless you can read code yourself, you're going to have to rely on someone else to do it for you. Which means you can choose a company, much like hiring a programmer, that does NOT have a history of using such lock-in tactics, and protect yourself without ever seeing the source itself.

      Agreed. Nothing wrong per se with not reading the code yourself. For the vast majority of people, there are other more effective uses of their time.

      Blind faith is blind faith.

      In this context the word "blind" does not convey the degree of information or careful planning that does go into one's decision to (for example) choose an open source vendor over a closed source vendor, even if one doesn't read the open code themselves. I guess in this context I'd acknowledge "blind faith is indeed blind faith", as long as I can also assert "a smart, informed choice is a smart informed choice". They're both tautologies and therefore both true... but only one of them seems applicable as rhetoric to the situation being discussed.

      --
      - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
    3. Re:blind by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      We're on the same page about "blind faith" vs. "smart, informed choice." But statements like the one I orignally responded to seem to be less about "informed choice" as "Closed source software will raid your bank account, send your money to terrorists, kick your wife and rape your dog!" FUD, with a not-so-subtle statement that those who use closed source software are stupid.

      It doesn't take into account several facts that I've had to come to grips with since I went full OSS.

      -- The "choices" in OSS are limited to those high-profile projects that either have corporate funding, or are interesting enough to programmers that there are multiple options (browsers, word processors, &c.). Less "glamuorous" utilities may have only two or less options, half-finished or really broken (dvdauthor being my most irritating example of this).

      -- Much smaller hardware window. While it's generally well known that new, cutting edge hardware often isn't compatible with OSS because of a lack of vendor support, a lot of people forget that older hardware may also be just as unavailable. There may have been no drivers ever written for particularly obscure hardware, or the drivers were written for Linux 2.0 and never updated for the newer kernels (Microsoft Strategic Commander, for example.)

      -- While tools like autoconf are improving impressively, there are still things that may choke between distributions using different layouts. Package management can sidestep some of these problems (inviting a host of different problems) on a specific distro, but if there's no package, you're going to need to build it.
      -- People do some strange-ass things when coding, and OSS is no exception. My favorite is command-line programs that require graphical toolkits.

      Personally, I think these downsides (and these are just the ones that have struck me personally) are worth the ability to tweak my system just so, so I stick with Slackware. For someone who might place more value on having things be more likely to "just work," an established closed source is probably the better bet.

      Few people give a damn about the "philosophy" of OSS; most just want to use their machines. While there are many good reasons to use an OSS operating system (OSS OS just looked too ugly), I don't think rhetoric should be part of the decision.

  82. Re:Neat - they're gonna sue people for *talking*!! by jc42 · · Score: 1

    Yeah, but there have a number of cases in which an Onion article got emailed around as real news. Their kind of humor is sometimes a bit too subtle for a lot of people.

    The same thing has happened with Jon Stewart. No matter how often he tells everyone that he's a comedian, people insist on taking his stuff seriously.

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  83. further security: run RootKitRevealer itself by sacrilicious · · Score: 1
    I upgraded to vegas 6.0c about 3 days before the rootkit story broke. I checked my system for the $sys$ rootkit according to the Sysinternals site and found nothing.

    The $sys$ stuff is just one arbitrary string that a rootkit could express itself through. To be thorough, download and run the free RootKitRevealer (front info page here). This is the software made by the very guy (Russonovich) who blew the whistle on Sony, having discovered their rootkit while testing his software.

    --
    - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
  84. Re:Not just age, also artificial narrowing of choi by adamgolding · · Score: 1

    "Musicians no longer come out of art school wanting to do something novel for their own niche audience; greed has overcome artistic integrity."

    Musicians? Art School? do you mean Music School? if so, rock musicians tend to avoid music school like the plague. frankly, i've never understood why--even if you don't want to write *in* the tradition, you can still be informed by it--i'd rather be an educated rebel than an ingnorant reinventor of the wheel.

    disclaimer: I am doing a BMus in Composition and a BSc in Cognitive Science

  85. They had to develop a fix? by the+argonaut · · Score: 1

    The EFF and iSEC delayed disclosing the problem until SunnComm could develop a fix.

    There's been a fix all along: don't put crappy security compromising DRM on CDs.

    --
    fuck you.
  86. Re:Not just age, also artificial narrowing of choi by spisska · · Score: 1

    Musicians no longer come out of art school wanting to do something novel for their own niche audience; greed has overcome artistic integrity.

    Close, but not quite. There's a big BIG difference between a pop star and a musician. The break really happened between the mid to late 80s and mid 90s as video meant a star had to be pretty, and predecessors of devices like this meant singing ability was a much lesser concern. Paula Abdul for example, according to a guy who played for her, is tone deaf, and depended on pitch correction devices for recording. She didn't do much actual singing in concerts -- woulda got in the way of the dancing.

    All the sudden it became much easier to sign young, cheap talent for short run with a catchy tune. All the pop stars had to do look cute and a little rebellious, learn a few dance moves, sing into the magic box, and try not to get caught doing something that would harm record sales. I would bet there are few pop stars now who don't use pitch correction.

    Putting together pop bands had been done before, of course. The Monkees, the Sex Pistols, all the bubblegum bands in the 60s, most of Mowtown, were hired and directed perfomers. But still the music of those times was dominated by singers -- and fantastic ones at that.

    Lots of pop singers these days start using microphones much earlier, and don't learn to project their voices the way singers used to -- by singing loud in churches and such. With some exceptions, there's just not a lot of power behind the voices these days -- they can shout and screech, but they don't project.

    Before MTV and pitch correction, pop stars may have been a lot of things, but they were very, very, very good singers. Even (and especially) the cheesey ones -- put on Lionel Ritchie's 'All Night Long' sometime and really listen to the composition and his voice.

    But as I said, singing ability is much less important when everything's going to be pitch-corrected and compressed to hell anyway. What matters is a tight ass. People like Aretha Franklin and Etta James would never have a chance today.

    As far as musicians go, they still come out of music school. The real musicians in the business are the ones who play in the pop stars' tour bands and studio bands, the ones who make mad hourly rates to tweak your amp settings. Some try their hand with pop outfits, others are content to make a good living as studio guys. On most record deals the studio musicians are much better off than the act -- payment up front + hourly rate + points on the record (maybe). The act is loaned the money to make the record and then has to pay it back through sales before they get anything.