This has been known for decades. I appreciate that some of the/. readership won't be aware of this but there's a lot of other things they're not aware of too. Should a news site be covering all the lesser-known stuff from history?
"News for nerds"? More like "Olds for nerds".
No, it's not an explanation.
But it is a viable hypothesis that females' own life choices might be more responsible for their lower salary than males rather than institutional misogyny.
What is needed is further research, most definitely, but this work presents an interesting (though desperately unfashionable) hypothesis that is actually supported by some evidence: Rather more evidence than the "world = sexist" hypothesis, at the very least.
So when I'm looking at photos of a loved ones' visit to the Taj Mahal, Google says that they're going to push *lots* of other people's photos of the Taj Mahal at me.
Because I really want to look at the Taj Mahal. Endlessly.
No you dipshits! I want to look at my loved ones enjoying their holiday! I don't give a flying f*** through a rolling donut about the holiday snaps of strangers, no matter how good, how artsy, how quirky, or how many there are with vaguely amusing pictures of sodding cats!
That doesn't change the company's guilt one iota because it was a post-hoc ("after this") act.
What the company's post-act actions do is allows a more lenient sentencing so that the judge can let them off with a slapped wrist for being naughty boys or imposing a lighter fine.
Absolutely. It was a part of the business risk and realists approached with the attitude of being scared of anything that might become too popular. The ideal was to be popular but not popular enough for MS to bother doing their own version.
Hawking is fairly conservative with his tech. As another post said, working is the primary requirement, even if slow. Remember, a FUBARd system is no use no matter how cool or fast it worked in the lab.
Besides, Hawking has a nice media career going for himself: http://youtu.be/tOimeRod4TY (yes, it really Hawking help sell financial products!).
Seriously. I reviewed an article for the British Medical Journal some years back (some time between 2005 and 2008), and I got paid either £20 or £50 for it. I think it was an experiment they tried for a short time before dropping the idea.
It's the only time I've ever been paid for reviewing papers; and the only journal I've ever heard of doing it.
To be fair, most here have been called time on HP and Sco fairly well. Okay, HP is still going but let's face it, it's not the great company it used to be, even before losing out on Autonomy.
I was at an interview just last week for a position at a large UK telecoms company. The salary was probably 45th percentile for the country, and I was told with a straight face that I had to prove I was the "world's best of the world's best".
For the first time in my life, I actually walked out of an interview. I'm quite good at my job and get shit done well with everyone happy. I might (or might not) be world class but I don't know because I've not had the opportunities to work at the large trendy tech companies; but this condescension is only allowed if they're paying a truly awesome salary.
If they're paying shite wages and the manager is a twat, they will never be world's best of world's best, no matter how much they want to be.
Quoth: "I suspect they are not, the point they are probably making is that if the suicide rate is say 5% amongst the general population, but only 1% in the industry of tech manufacturing yet Foxconn's rate is 3% then it is striking, "
If the article did that, then that would be fine and definitely news-worthy. But the problem is that they haven't. The only comparison they've made is with a national baseline. It doesn't seem good practice to assume that that statistic must be the worst-case: I'd really need see the facts (i.e., suicide rate amongst similar factory workers) before making a conclusion.
Much like I did in 1980s UK. I was sent on a work experience programme when I was 14 over summer and quite enjoyed my experience and didn't feel exploited even when looking back after several decades of work. It was about as much real work as my daughter playing with a toy kitchen is real cooking.
I'm not saying that Foxconn's younger interns are not working the typical 30-hour / day, 8 days/week-type deathmarch that articles like this seem to propound, but I'm not saying it's not either. This article needs something more than just whispers and hints of accusations.
In the UK, I took O level computer studies and was taught by a former programmer. The time was 1983-85 when I was 14-16 years old.
We covered hardware ("this is a VDU", "Winchester hard disks", etc) and software.
Software was introduced using CESIL (or CECIL?) a low-level language written for instruction by ICL. From this, I transitioned easily to 6809E Assembler (much more complex but I had the fundamentals in place).
We also learned BBC BASIC on BBC Microcomputers which gave us an intro to structured programming rather than GOTO's.
We wrote programs that we ran on the BBCs (if BASIC), or were sent away somewhere else if CESIL. Our teacher taught us to begin with unit testing (or at least, inputs and expected outputs), a flowchart (for which we had to buy a stencil) and then hand-written code on paper. This was before we even thought about sitting at a keyboard and it taught me to *plan*.
I also got to play with an old Research Machines personal computer and a Tandy TRS-80 which I liked because it had an integrated display! At home, I had to battle for the right to use the TV with my family!
Just in case: I'm not a programmer / developer and never have been. Well I do write but I'm more of a data scientist than anything.
Slashdot Mirror
Oh please! Let there be punch the monkey! I miss that cute little fella. NOT!!!
This has been known for decades. I appreciate that some of the /. readership won't be aware of this but there's a lot of other things they're not aware of too. Should a news site be covering all the lesser-known stuff from history?
"News for nerds"? More like "Olds for nerds".
No, it's not an explanation. But it is a viable hypothesis that females' own life choices might be more responsible for their lower salary than males rather than institutional misogyny. What is needed is further research, most definitely, but this work presents an interesting (though desperately unfashionable) hypothesis that is actually supported by some evidence: Rather more evidence than the "world = sexist" hypothesis, at the very least.
Quoth: "one doesn't "buy" Oracle (or IBM or BT) products, one carries them like an STD."
What a truly superb quote. Kudos.
So when I'm looking at photos of a loved ones' visit to the Taj Mahal, Google says that they're going to push *lots* of other people's photos of the Taj Mahal at me.
Because I really want to look at the Taj Mahal. Endlessly.
No you dipshits! I want to look at my loved ones enjoying their holiday! I don't give a flying f*** through a rolling donut about the holiday snaps of strangers, no matter how good, how artsy, how quirky, or how many there are with vaguely amusing pictures of sodding cats!
Bet all you want Google.
Aren't there supposed to be some lizards in there somewhere?
That doesn't change the company's guilt one iota because it was a post-hoc ("after this") act.
What the company's post-act actions do is allows a more lenient sentencing so that the judge can let them off with a slapped wrist for being naughty boys or imposing a lighter fine.
I wish I could mod this up...
Except that as a tax-payer, the GP is actually paying the cops' salaries.
I've heard of x10 developers before, but not x10 users!
Absolutely. It was a part of the business risk and realists approached with the attitude of being scared of anything that might become too popular. The ideal was to be popular but not popular enough for MS to bother doing their own version.
Hawking is fairly conservative with his tech. As another post said, working is the primary requirement, even if slow. Remember, a FUBARd system is no use no matter how cool or fast it worked in the lab.
Besides, Hawking has a nice media career going for himself: http://youtu.be/tOimeRod4TY (yes, it really Hawking help sell financial products!).
I have!
Seriously. I reviewed an article for the British Medical Journal some years back (some time between 2005 and 2008), and I got paid either £20 or £50 for it. I think it was an experiment they tried for a short time before dropping the idea.
It's the only time I've ever been paid for reviewing papers; and the only journal I've ever heard of doing it.
W00t! USA! USA!
Man, if only I had mod points...
To be fair, most here have been called time on HP and Sco fairly well. Okay, HP is still going but let's face it, it's not the great company it used to be, even before losing out on Autonomy.
Ooops - you forgot Hinduism.
So the Jedi cult is the most popular cult in the entire country! Except for Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Judaism and Buddhism.
Umm, how many elected members are there in the House of Lords? I'm just curious why there's a qualifier?
This.
I was at an interview just last week for a position at a large UK telecoms company. The salary was probably 45th percentile for the country, and I was told with a straight face that I had to prove I was the "world's best of the world's best".
For the first time in my life, I actually walked out of an interview. I'm quite good at my job and get shit done well with everyone happy. I might (or might not) be world class but I don't know because I've not had the opportunities to work at the large trendy tech companies; but this condescension is only allowed if they're paying a truly awesome salary.
If they're paying shite wages and the manager is a twat, they will never be world's best of world's best, no matter how much they want to be.
Yeah, you tell the looser!
Herp derp fadgit.
Quoth: "I suspect they are not, the point they are probably making is that if the suicide rate is say 5% amongst the general population, but only 1% in the industry of tech manufacturing yet Foxconn's rate is 3% then it is striking, " If the article did that, then that would be fine and definitely news-worthy. But the problem is that they haven't. The only comparison they've made is with a national baseline. It doesn't seem good practice to assume that that statistic must be the worst-case: I'd really need see the facts (i.e., suicide rate amongst similar factory workers) before making a conclusion.
Much like I did in 1980s UK. I was sent on a work experience programme when I was 14 over summer and quite enjoyed my experience and didn't feel exploited even when looking back after several decades of work. It was about as much real work as my daughter playing with a toy kitchen is real cooking.
I'm not saying that Foxconn's younger interns are not working the typical 30-hour / day, 8 days/week-type deathmarch that articles like this seem to propound, but I'm not saying it's not either. This article needs something more than just whispers and hints of accusations.
In the UK, I took O level computer studies and was taught by a former programmer. The time was 1983-85 when I was 14-16 years old.
We covered hardware ("this is a VDU", "Winchester hard disks", etc) and software.
Software was introduced using CESIL (or CECIL?) a low-level language written for instruction by ICL. From this, I transitioned easily to 6809E Assembler (much more complex but I had the fundamentals in place).
We also learned BBC BASIC on BBC Microcomputers which gave us an intro to structured programming rather than GOTO's.
We wrote programs that we ran on the BBCs (if BASIC), or were sent away somewhere else if CESIL. Our teacher taught us to begin with unit testing (or at least, inputs and expected outputs), a flowchart (for which we had to buy a stencil) and then hand-written code on paper. This was before we even thought about sitting at a keyboard and it taught me to *plan*.
I also got to play with an old Research Machines personal computer and a Tandy TRS-80 which I liked because it had an integrated display! At home, I had to battle for the right to use the TV with my family!
Just in case: I'm not a programmer / developer and never have been. Well I do write but I'm more of a data scientist than anything.
Surely there has to be a slimy legal shit somewhere who can figure out a way to make money from each improper take-down?
What new stuff excites you most now?