You're trying to claim that you can pull data off an optical disc faster than you can off a hard drive? That's the single most ignorant and asinine thing I've read today. And I've been reading slashdot."
Every clown with a pc thinks they are competent to run their mouths off about console development ever since Microsoft entered the console market with a x86 pc in a big ugly box five years ago.
Run along dummy, and keep your mouth shut until you have multiple console titles for multiple platforms sitting on store shelves.
"They're calling this thing a computer replacement "
The only reason Sony is pushing the word 'computer' is to get around import taxes in the EU.
That doesn't mean that the PS3 isn't being designed to handle many of the thing people do with desktop computers today. There is a subtle difference to what Sony is saying about the PS3 vs a desktop computer. They are saying the PS3 will let you do most of the things people use their desktop computers for today. Not that the PS3 is a drop in replacement for the standard x86 pc on people's desks today.
The era of the pc is coming to a close. That doesn't mean that desktop computers are going to dissapear, just that the computing world is moving beyond them. Blackberrys,iPods,settop boxes,cellphones,PS3s are the devices an increasing number of people are using for their day to day computing needs. All of the stuff Google, and others, have been doing with setting up the Net as an application platform has liberated people from having to run a specific program on their desktop pc and now they can perform those same functions on any device that has a Net connection and can handle modern HTML or other standard Net application protocols.
With the PS3 I can email,webbrowse,instant message,google maps,etc thanks to the Net as a platform breaking the dependence on the desktop pc as the standard platform for people. None of that stuff needs any more than a marginal amount of RAM. The PS3 will be able to run Linux and all those types of application just fine with its current memory amount.
Of course if you are a hardcore pc person who plays x86 games or runs apps that are heavily reliant on x86 pc hardware then what Kutagari is talking isn't addressed to you. But for a huge number of people, the PS3 will be able to handle every computing task they currently use their x86 PC for.
It is very much like Google's online spreadsheet. There is a cry from hardcore Excel people that it is no replacement for their needs. But it really isn't targeted at them. It is targeted at the millions of people who never do anything complicated with a spreadsheet but still need access to one.
Oh, and 95% of loading times for games has absolutely nothing to do with the underlying storage hardware, ie DVD,BluRay,harddrive, and everything to do with the person writing the data/level loading code. Microsoft really got a lot of people believing in the myth of the harddrive the only way a game can load fast when they were marketing the first Xbox.
360 developers are making games that the system can't handle - thus the bad framerates and tearing and all the other graphic problems people are seeing.
It seems that 360 developers are not writing to the actual hardware but to what they envision the 360 hardware should be. Hopefully 360 developers will face the reality of the underpowered 360 hardware and start toning down their engines. Lower resolution or less detail or both. Console gamers will not put up with the mess 360 game graphics have turned out to be.
If the 360 can only handle 480p games then that is what developers should target for the system.
This Apple Intel fiasco is like watching a year long trainwreck.
With massive numbers of Mac developers not wanting to or not being able to put out OS X x86 versions of their product/software and now they can just support their entire user base with a single Windows version...
Four years ago or so EA humilated Microsoft very publicly when they snubbed Microsoft's pay to play online service.
And now Rockstar is giving a similar humiliation to Microsoft with this 'exclusive'.
In the console biz you either need to:
1) Have the ability to create your own library of system selling exclusive IP 2) Have the ability to create a user base where developers are beating down your door to get their IP exclusively on your system
Nintendo has 1)
Sony has 1) and 2)
And Microsoft has neither. And that is why they are getting joke games like this.
The PS3 is moved forward in Europe. The PS3 is on the same schedule for the US. The PS3 is pushed back in Japan.
Production of PS3 components remains unchanged from before they decided to change to a unified launch. We already know they are in the process of volume production of Broadband Engine chips for the system this month. And I assume they are doing the same for the other compoenents.
The total number of PS3s manufactured and sold in 2006 is going to be exactly the same. However, who gets PS3s where and when has been moved around. So unless you are one of the few developers with a game targeted at launch, development is proceeding along with no change.
Yes, Sony is going to model their online system on Microsoft's which was so bad that:
1) Less than eight percent of people were willing to pay for it - and that is being generous and taking Microsoft's inflated marketing numbers at face value
2) Large parts of the service have had to be given away with the 360 after the failure of the first online system
3) Sony had more people playing just one of their games online, SOCOM, than Microsoft had playing on their entire network
Microsoft is learning from Nintendo and Sony, slowly of course. Console gamers don't want to be ripped off just to play games online. Free online play is where Sony and Nintendo are at. Microsoft better scramble to come up with an answer.
"However, getting an full game (not just a triangle test) running on the Xbox or GameCube at those speeds was pretty easy, but getting that on a PS2 required much more time and effort (although justified by PS2's dominant market position) as well as causing irreversible brain damage to the programmer, and even some sort of Stockholm-syndrome where you start to identify with the machine that is holding you hostage at work..."
PS2, GameCube, and Xbox projects all have almost identical team sizes and project schedule lengths.
Go back to cutting and pasting directx code clown.
Go ahead and post the PS2,GameCube, and Xbox monthly sales numbers leading up to, during, and just after Halo 2 was released. I assume you have them at hand or have referenced them before and can bring them up quickly if you are trying to make some claim about the power of the Halo franchise to draw console owners away from Sony and Nintendo and onto Microsoft's platform.
You should be able to clearly show a significant downtrend in Sony and or Nintendo consoles and a corresponding significant uptrend in Microsoft's console when Halo 2 was released as console owners either defect or start buying Xboxes at a higher rate due to the arrival of the game.
Good luck, I know the numbers and you don't have a leg to stand on.
Some 125 million or so, 100 million PS2 owners and 25 million GameCube owners, people didn't give a damn about either Halo games on the first Xbox. And it didn't cause them to go out and buy Xboxes.
Why would any of them suddenly start caring about the third game of the franchise out of the blue?
Not only is it inane to suggest that another Halo game would be a threat, I think it is safe to say releasing a new Halo game the same day as what is most likely going to be the biggest and most highly anticipated console launch ever would be unwise for Microsoft's one big name franchise.
How sad. There are still living and breathing Dreamcast fanboys around.
The PS2 can crank out some 60-65 million flat shaded polys a second. I've done it myself. Any reasonably competent console engineer can or has done it with their Tool. Just like Sony stated it could. The PS2 has insanse fill rate.
The only company who has outright lied about their console performance has been Microsoft. They tried to claim the Xbox was capable of cranking out 150 million polys when in reality the system is only capable of putting out somewhere in the 20-25 range of any type, flat,textured,multi-textured.
The PS2,GameCube, and Xbox all have roughly similar poly counts in real world shipping games - somewhere in the 10-20 million range. The PS2 spanks the other two for fillrate type poly effects, and the Xbox does a better job at multi-texture polys. But overall, all three systems are very close in realworld conditions. An amazing testament to Sony's graphic engineer prowess that their system was designed and finalized about two years before the Xbox and cost less than half the price to manufacture.
And then there is the Major Nelson...I won't even bother to touch that nasty mountain of bullshit he tried to shovel about the 360.
1) Has been pushed back two to three months in Japan 2) Has the same schedule it always had in the US 3) Has been moved forward in Europe
Volume production of Cell chips for the PS3 is underway along with the RSX rasterizer for the system. Along with the BluRay drives, Sony is in the process of building up the components to be ready to start assembling them into final PS3 units in the May/June timeframe.
Apparently they are on track to have enough units to ship about 500k systems to Japan in June but have decided to go for a simultaneous launch in all three territories in November with millions of units.
Millions of European gamers are breaking open the champagne...
Since the reason for Sony pushing back the Japan launch is software related to the BluRay AACS stuff, having enough hardware isn't going to be a problem. Demand will be absolutely crazy of course in November and December, but there will be a steady stream of PS3s coming out Sony each month - somewhere in the million or so a month.
Sony makes massive amounts of money off the PS2 hardware. They started making money on the PS2 around a year after release. And as they have continued to shrink the components for the system the profits have continued to rise.
"If Microsoft gets two Christmases (with one Christmas having Halo3) its over for Sony in the US."
What is bizarre is I don't think you are just trying to intentionally spread FUD, but you honesty really believe the crap you just wrote.
The 360 is the worst selling console in a decade:
Still hasn't even sold its inital shipment of 150k units in Japan. Sales appear to be going very poorly in Europe. And the six year old PS2 is outselling the Dreamcast 360 2 to 1 last month with 300k units for the PS2 vs 160k for the 360. Pathetic.
The 360 is selling massively worse than the Dreamcast and it is selling at less than half the rate of the first Xbox.
Slashdot Mirror
"Sounds like Sony and Blu-Ray."
Please for irony's sake let this idiotic claim remain modded Insightful...
"If you think the PSP is a protable PS2, you've drunk the Kool-aid."
Uh, the PSP is very close to a PS2...
"Hell, it has battery issues trying ot be a PS1."
Uh, ok?
$500 PS3 uh, crappy?
You mean the 500 dollar PS3 that:
Plays BluRay movies at 1080p?
Plays games at 1080p?
Plays the entire library of Playstaton games?
Plays the entire library of PS2 games?
It is pretty funny to watch people try to label the 499 PS3 because Microsoft came out with a gimped version of their 360. Yeah, that makes sense...
"You're kidding, right?
You're trying to claim that you can pull data off an optical disc faster than you can off a hard drive? That's the single most ignorant and asinine thing I've read today. And I've been reading slashdot."
Every clown with a pc thinks they are competent to run their mouths off about console development ever since Microsoft entered the console market with a x86 pc in a big ugly box five years ago.
Run along dummy, and keep your mouth shut until you have multiple console titles for multiple platforms sitting on store shelves.
"They're calling this thing a computer replacement "
The only reason Sony is pushing the word 'computer' is to get around import taxes in the EU.
That doesn't mean that the PS3 isn't being designed to handle many of the thing people do with desktop computers today. There is a subtle difference to what Sony is saying about the PS3 vs a desktop computer. They are saying the PS3 will let you do most of the things people use their desktop computers for today. Not that the PS3 is a drop in replacement for the standard x86 pc on people's desks today.
The era of the pc is coming to a close. That doesn't mean that desktop computers are going to dissapear, just that the computing world is moving beyond them. Blackberrys,iPods,settop boxes,cellphones,PS3s are the devices an increasing number of people are using for their day to day computing needs. All of the stuff Google, and others, have been doing with setting up the Net as an application platform has liberated people from having to run a specific program on their desktop pc and now they can perform those same functions on any device that has a Net connection and can handle modern HTML or other standard Net application protocols.
With the PS3 I can email,webbrowse,instant message,google maps,etc thanks to the Net as a platform breaking the dependence on the desktop pc as the standard platform for people. None of that stuff needs any more than a marginal amount of RAM. The PS3 will be able to run Linux and all those types of application just fine with its current memory amount.
Of course if you are a hardcore pc person who plays x86 games or runs apps that are heavily reliant on x86 pc hardware then what Kutagari is talking isn't addressed to you. But for a huge number of people, the PS3 will be able to handle every computing task they currently use their x86 PC for.
It is very much like Google's online spreadsheet. There is a cry from hardcore Excel people that it is no replacement for their needs. But it really isn't targeted at them. It is targeted at the millions of people who never do anything complicated with a spreadsheet but still need access to one.
Oh, and 95% of loading times for games has absolutely nothing to do with the underlying storage hardware, ie DVD,BluRay,harddrive, and everything to do with the person writing the data/level loading code. Microsoft really got a lot of people believing in the myth of the harddrive the only way a game can load fast when they were marketing the first Xbox.
Shhh...let the Dreamcast and Xbox fanboys go nuts.
Just sit back and enjoy the show. It was priceless six years ago when Sony used the same label for European tax reasons...
Emacs???
You have to be joking...
Here is what grownups use these days:
http://macromates.com/
"There're graphics glitches like "tearing""
360 developers are making games that the system can't handle - thus the bad framerates and tearing and all the other graphic problems people are seeing.
It seems that 360 developers are not writing to the actual hardware but to what they envision the 360 hardware should be. Hopefully 360 developers will face the reality of the underpowered 360 hardware and start toning down their engines. Lower resolution or less detail or both. Console gamers will not put up with the mess 360 game graphics have turned out to be.
If the 360 can only handle 480p games then that is what developers should target for the system.
Teamxbox meets Slashdot.
This article has to be a farce - no one could possibly be that clueless to write something seriously.
"Not bad for a company many people figured would be out of the games buisness after the gamecube & GBA."
Let me guess...you heard that on teamxbox.com?
This Apple Intel fiasco is like watching a year long trainwreck.
With massive numbers of Mac developers not wanting to or not being able to put out OS X x86 versions of their product/software and now they can just support their entire user base with a single Windows version...
Whoops!
Hope you like Apple i-apps and shareware...
Four years ago or so EA humilated Microsoft very publicly when they snubbed Microsoft's pay to play online service.
And now Rockstar is giving a similar humiliation to Microsoft with this 'exclusive'.
In the console biz you either need to:
1) Have the ability to create your own library of system selling exclusive IP
2) Have the ability to create a user base where developers are beating down your door to get their IP exclusively on your system
Nintendo has 1)
Sony has 1) and 2)
And Microsoft has neither. And that is why they are getting joke games like this.
Melvyn Bragg's weekly show on the BBC:
e x.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/ind
http://minimsft.blogspot.com/2006/03/vista-2007-fi re-leadership-now.html#comments
The PS3 is moved forward in Europe.
The PS3 is on the same schedule for the US.
The PS3 is pushed back in Japan.
Production of PS3 components remains unchanged from before they decided to change to a unified launch. We already know they are in the process of volume production of Broadband Engine chips for the system this month. And I assume they are doing the same for the other compoenents.
The total number of PS3s manufactured and sold in 2006 is going to be exactly the same. However, who gets PS3s where and when has been moved around. So unless you are one of the few developers with a game targeted at launch, development is proceeding along with no change.
Yes, Sony is going to model their online system on Microsoft's which was so bad that:
1) Less than eight percent of people were willing to pay for it - and that is being generous and taking Microsoft's inflated marketing numbers at face value
2) Large parts of the service have had to be given away with the 360 after the failure of the first online system
3) Sony had more people playing just one of their games online, SOCOM, than Microsoft had playing on their entire network
Microsoft is learning from Nintendo and Sony, slowly of course. Console gamers don't want to be ripped off just to play games online. Free online play is where Sony and Nintendo are at. Microsoft better scramble to come up with an answer.
"Customers getting final PS3 hardware before game devs. rofl"
Way to make youself look like an idiot.
"However, getting an full game (not just a triangle test) running on the Xbox or GameCube at those speeds was pretty easy, but getting that on a PS2 required much more time and effort (although justified by PS2's dominant market position) as well as causing irreversible brain damage to the programmer, and even some sort of Stockholm-syndrome where you start to identify with the machine that is holding you hostage at work..."
PS2, GameCube, and Xbox projects all have almost identical team sizes and project schedule lengths.
Go back to cutting and pasting directx code clown.
Go ahead and post the PS2,GameCube, and Xbox monthly sales numbers leading up to, during, and just after Halo 2 was released. I assume you have them at hand or have referenced them before and can bring them up quickly if you are trying to make some claim about the power of the Halo franchise to draw console owners away from Sony and Nintendo and onto Microsoft's platform.
You should be able to clearly show a significant downtrend in Sony and or Nintendo consoles and a corresponding significant uptrend in Microsoft's console when Halo 2 was released as console owners either defect or start buying Xboxes at a higher rate due to the arrival of the game.
Good luck, I know the numbers and you don't have a leg to stand on.
Some 125 million or so, 100 million PS2 owners and 25 million GameCube owners, people didn't give a damn about either Halo games on the first Xbox. And it didn't cause them to go out and buy Xboxes.
Why would any of them suddenly start caring about the third game of the franchise out of the blue?
Not only is it inane to suggest that another Halo game would be a threat, I think it is safe to say releasing a new Halo game the same day as what is most likely going to be the biggest and most highly anticipated console launch ever would be unwise for Microsoft's one big name franchise.
How sad. There are still living and breathing Dreamcast fanboys around.
The PS2 can crank out some 60-65 million flat shaded polys a second. I've done it myself. Any reasonably competent console engineer can or has done it with their Tool. Just like Sony stated it could. The PS2 has insanse fill rate.
The only company who has outright lied about their console performance has been Microsoft. They tried to claim the Xbox was capable of cranking out 150 million polys when in reality the system is only capable of putting out somewhere in the 20-25 range of any type, flat,textured,multi-textured.
The PS2,GameCube, and Xbox all have roughly similar poly counts in real world shipping games - somewhere in the 10-20 million range. The PS2 spanks the other two for fillrate type poly effects, and the Xbox does a better job at multi-texture polys. But overall, all three systems are very close in realworld conditions. An amazing testament to Sony's graphic engineer prowess that their system was designed and finalized about two years before the Xbox and cost less than half the price to manufacture.
And then there is the Major Nelson...I won't even bother to touch that nasty mountain of bullshit he tried to shovel about the 360.
As far as the Dreamcast. Who cares.
The PS3:
1) Has been pushed back two to three months in Japan
2) Has the same schedule it always had in the US
3) Has been moved forward in Europe
Volume production of Cell chips for the PS3 is underway along with the RSX rasterizer for the system. Along with the BluRay drives, Sony is in the process of building up the components to be ready to start assembling them into final PS3 units in the May/June timeframe.
Apparently they are on track to have enough units to ship about 500k systems to Japan in June but have decided to go for a simultaneous launch in all three territories in November with millions of units.
Millions of European gamers are breaking open the champagne...
Since the reason for Sony pushing back the Japan launch is software related to the BluRay AACS stuff, having enough hardware isn't going to be a problem. Demand will be absolutely crazy of course in November and December, but there will be a steady stream of PS3s coming out Sony each month - somewhere in the million or so a month.
Can't wait for Nintendo to take their turn next.
I guess that's why they sold 23 million GameCubes this gen and outsold Microsoft who blew through 5 billion just to sell almost as many consoles.
Yeah, poor Nintendo.
Sony makes massive amounts of money off the PS2 hardware. They started making money on the PS2 around a year after release. And as they have continued to shrink the components for the system the profits have continued to rise.
The same will be the case with the PS3.
It's good to be a manufacturing powerhouse.
"If Microsoft gets two Christmases (with one Christmas having Halo3) its over for Sony in the US."
What is bizarre is I don't think you are just trying to intentionally spread FUD, but you honesty really believe the crap you just wrote.
The 360 is the worst selling console in a decade:
Still hasn't even sold its inital shipment of 150k units in Japan.
Sales appear to be going very poorly in Europe.
And the six year old PS2 is outselling the Dreamcast 360 2 to 1 last month with 300k units for the PS2 vs 160k for the 360. Pathetic.
The 360 is selling massively worse than the Dreamcast and it is selling at less than half the rate of the first Xbox.
Look out console world! Here comes Microsoft!!!
Heh