Domain: amnestyusa.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to amnestyusa.org.
Comments · 115
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Re:China will rescue them.You're deliberately being obtuse. The Nuremberg trials after WW2. International tribunals where "I didn't know" was rejected as a defense. Go ahead and try though. I'm sure all those murder victims will understand.
I'm just gonna leave this here: https://www.amnestyusa.org/is-...
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Re:Not disappointed
Prison without trials:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...Indefinite solitary confinement:
https://www.amnestyusa.org/res...Spying on all citizens:
https://www.theguardian.com/wo...Current government supports executions of whistleblowers:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-po...
http://www.washingtontimes.com...Executing citizens without a trial:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...Just to name a few.
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Re:You gave Trump's plan
Here's a story from the anointed Huffington Post claiming 80% of migrants are raped coming to the US. That's a pretty alarming figure. Here's another story on it by Fusion. Here's an Amnesty international story citing health care professionals claiming 6 out of 10 are abused.
There already is legal precedent: 8 U.S. Code 1182 - Inadmissible aliens clause f Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President. If you don't believe in western values don't come to the west. Show us a democratic country that is majority Muslim. Islam is more than a religion, what should be addressed upon entry is a question about supporting Sharia law. It's incompatible with western values. How do other religions work in Muslim majority countries? How do they treat women or gays? Why do you feel it is superior to the US present stance? -
Re:About the government ?
At violating "Western-like" civil rights you mean. "Most" Chinese don't consider their human rights violated by their government. Perhaps people from countries that have only existed for less than 500 years don't have a damned clue when compared to Civilizations that have been around for at least 5000.
That covers a time when human slavery, sexual and otherwise, was not uncommon.
We have evolved, well, most of us, in our view of acceptable treatment of humans.
"Amnesty International has documented widespread human rights violations in China. An estimated 500,000 people are currently enduring punitive detention without charge or trial, and millions are unable to access the legal system to seek redress for their grievances. [Source: http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-...
I can see why some would prefer to focus on the quantity of years the Chinese have been around, rather than the quality of the current reality. -
Re:How do the "poorest residents" own homes
Can I see a citation for that statistic please? Or at least your calculations to come up with that figure?
Sorry, it's more than three. Learn to use Google, I won't do your fucking homework for you again.
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Re:The two things that have led me to oppose the D
The death penalty is not an effective deterrent against murder.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.or...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-...What deters murderers is not the penalty, but the likelihood of being caught.
Actually, what deters murders most is not having a gun.
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Re:The two things that have led me to oppose the D
The death penalty is not an effective deterrent against murder.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.or...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-...What deters murderers is not the penalty, but the likelihood of being caught.
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Re:An alternative to the death penalty
Killing people diminishes us - even if they were evil scumbags who deserved worse. I don't need to look to other cultures for examples and counter-examples of executing people. I don't need a popularity contest about how many other people don't like the death penalty (or the converse). Let's just go with "no killing" because it is right and be done with it.
I agree completely. I just thought I'd start the thread with the pragmatic reasons, because they tend to make proponents less defensive. And that reminds me of another one: the lack of evidence that it is an effective deterrent compared to incarceration:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.or...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-... -
Re:Spies are sneaky
Here are several links that are public knowledge. I know some cases personally, which I don't want to mention because I don't want to get associated with them publicly. There is more than 200 names in these lists:
http://www.thejerichomovement....
http://www.voxfux.com/features...
https://denverabc.wordpress.co...
http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-...I am not even including any of the whistleblowers or the Guantanamo prisoners in this list. But both of those categories are political prisoners.
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Re:HOWTO
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Re:HOWTO
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Detekt is a free tool that scans your computer for
- DETEKT
What is Detekt and how does it work?
"Detekt is a free tool that scans your computer for traces of known surveillance spyware used by governments to target and monitor human rights defenders and journalists around the world. By alerting them to the fact that they are being spied on, they will have the opportunity to take precautions.
It was developed by security researchers and has been used to assist in Citizen Lab's investigations into government use of spyware against human rights defenders, journalists and activists as well as by security trainers to educate on the nature of targeted surveillance.
Amnesty International is partnering with Privacy International, Digitale Gesellschaft and the Electronic Frontier Foundation to release Detekt to the public for the first time."
###
Official Sites:
https://resistsurveillance.org...
https://github.com/botherder/d...
https://github.com/botherder/d...
https://github.com/botherder/d...- version 1.1 download (Nov 20, 2014)
.exe & sig
https://github.com/botherder/d...###
- Detekt Author's GPG key:
The distributed binary is signed with my personal PGP key, the public key is available at
###
- More info/News stories:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/...
http://www.theguardian.com/wor...
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news...
http://www.amnestyusa.org/news...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
https://threatpost.com/detekt-...
https://firstlook.org/theinter...
http://www.bbc.com/news/techno...
http://www.zdnet.com/amnestys-...###
- Author's Twitter Page:
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Re:Shut up and take my money
Interesting. Illinois police certainly do have a repuation. I'm not actually from the U.S.A. but nevertheless Amnesty International sends me emails about petitions such as this one about the Chicago police .
Sorry if that looks like a shameless plug for Amnesty International (well I guess it is) but WTH, they do good work.
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Re:Time to move into the Century of the fruit bat.
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Re:Punishment fits the crime
There are plenty of studies out there that show that executions cost significantly more than life imprisonments. You can get started with some studies here: http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/death-penalty/us-death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost If you want to save money, lock people up in the Waldorf Astoria for life.
aybe if we cleaned up our unnecessarily exhaustive legal process that has basically become a job program this wouldn't be an issue.
Yes, because making sure due process was observed, mistakes were uncovered and general asshattery by various people was minimized is just a job program. I guess we should just put you in a suit and call you Judge Dredd, right?
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Re:Hangings
The cost is most likely due to the lengthy appeals process. Here's a link to calculated costs http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/death-penalty/us-death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost/
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Re:Hangings
I'd heard that the costs of execution were higher, but can't remember where from, so after a quick google, this seems to be semi-reputable: http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/death-penalty/us-death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost/
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The problem with the death penalty is allowing for the mistakes that people always make (police, judges, jury, lawyers, dna labs etc). -
Let's not forget what happened back then.
http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/cases/china-shi-tao Nice try yahoo.
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Never Forget
http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/cases/china-shi-tao
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Shi Tao was sentenced in April 2005 to 10 years’ imprisonment and two years’ subsequent deprivation of his political rights. According to the court verdict, part of the evidence for the case was account holder information supplied by Yahoo!. Spokespersons for Yahoo! claimed the company was simply following local laws.
"http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/28/yahoo_seeks_dismissal_human_rights_lawsuit/
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Yahoo! has asked a US court to dismiss a lawsuit accusing it of "aiding and abetting" acts of torture and other human rights abuses against Chinese dissidents. The company handed over information about its users to the Chinese government, which led to the arrests of the dissidents.
"http://www.marketwatch.com/story/yahoo-helps-china-jail-dissidents-says-rights-group
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Human Rights in China, a New York-based group, said Thursday that Wang Xiaoning was sentenced to 10 years in prison in Sept 2003 for "incitement to subvert state power" after Yahoo provided authorities with his email address.
"and call me a tinfoil hatter all you want, but I do think this and the Snowden-crash issues are related-
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3929983&cid=44170993 -
Re: Done us all a favor
Sure...Panama is good except when they use excessive force to quell protesters and kill innocent civilians. Or when they take a page out of the textbook from the early years of the United States and force indigenous peoples to relocate in order to build a dam.
Costa Rica is neato unless you can't have children and want to use science. Also, make sure you're not gay.
This was a 5 minute search. Not saying that the US is better...just saying that these aren't better either necessarily. -
Re:Eh what's the point when decisions are made.
There's a reason you don't execute rapists or failed attempted murderers -- "If you're gonna be exected anyway, well, dead women tell no tales."
Presumably dead inspectors tell no tales, either.
:(Nope, there's nothing to worry about, because the death penalty is not a deterrent:
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Re:Who cares?
A single example of a US citizen being arrested for the way they look and not having papers?
See page 20 and references 86 through 88:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/pdfs/JailedWithoutJustice.pdf -
Re:The TSA needs to be stopped
And what about when a brown US citizen doesn't have any ID on him and ends up in detention for a few MONTHS? This isn't some hypothetical; there are documented cases of this happening. Some are included in:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/research/reports/usa-jailed-without-justice -
Remember Shi Tao . . . . And the evil Jerry Yang?In April 2004, the Chinese journalist Shi Tao used his Yahoo! email account to send a message to a U.S.-based pro-democracy website.
And Jerry Yang's Yahoo turned him in:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/cases/china-shi-tao -
So what? ? ?They offshore all the jobs, all the technology, all the R&D work and the investments there, so who gives a rat's ass?????
No offense, but posts like these are nonsensical --- or maybe propaganda for the next war by design?????
So maybe the blog poster should contact Boeing (Narus), Packet Forensics, and all the other sleazoid American corporate whores about selling them all that surveillance tech, huh???
And please let us never forget about Jerry Yang and his Yahoo crimes (we've heard of one, but that doesn't mean there's many, many more unheard of....)
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Re:Could have been worse...
http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/security-and-human-rights/guantanamo
Which part of "prisoner of war" do you not understand? There are only two choices. Either you prosecute someone as a criminal with all the same human rights that your own citizens have or you hold them in humane conditions as "prisoners of war" based on widely accepted rules and with the expectation that if you treat your prisoners like animals then you should expect your soldiers to be treated the same by any enemy in the future. As far as torture, sadism, and inhumane conditions, karma is a bitch. Either a government respects human rights or it doesn't. To say that group A is fully human and so has rights but that group B is not fully human and doesn't have any rights is precisely the same position that Nazi Germany took WRT jews. The US gets into more wars than any other country I can think of. You'd think we'd want to be careful about how we treat our prisoners because turnabout is fair play.
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Re:Let this be a message to the unpatriotic
the U.S. does not, and cannot, commit any war crimes
A long list of war crimes would like to tell you to stop drinking the koolaid.
For those of you patriots who accept that all U.S. action is lawful, by virtue of it being U.S. action, then prosperity and salvation await.
Some restrictions apply. See your local government office for full details. Offer not valid outside of US. Void where prohibited by law.
For all others, who would engage with the socialist press and outside agitators in conspiring to disparage this flawless nation, only purgatory and a jail cell await you.
There are a lot of agitators in this country. More than any other country even. But you're right, I'm sure they have nothing to complain about.
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Re:real ugly truth
Um, we dont have a forced sterilization program here. We also dont have the government declaring that you may not have more than 1 child, lest you be fined (or worse).
and for numerous actions that are against the Geneva convention such as the torture of political prisoners and secret courts where people are indefinately detained or even executed.
And obviously China does none of this. Are you aware how many human rights issues there are in China?
Lets give you some perspective. If you were a chinese citizen and became a Christian, you could be arrested if you talked to anyone about it outside of a state church. If your friends tweeted about your arrest, they would likely be detained. If any of their friends protested.... well, I think those are the times China starts making headlines.
As for secret courts, well, perhaps you should do some research on amnesty international's page on China. For bonus points compare it to the US's page.
So don't give me that shit about how I need more training, you condescending jerk.
Certainly you do when you assert that courts dole out justice more regularly in China than the US. I think youd find that copyright etc laws are used far more as a political weapon there than here.
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Re:U.S. law is the new international law
Why, yes I can, Dora, as if it mattered. And this isn't a popularity contest, where the countries you like are the ones that matter. Here's why Indonesia sucks, and here's why Ethiopia sucks, and why Equatorial Guinea sucks, and why Gabon sucks. I haven't even touched on their poor economies, or poor literacy. And BTW,this is why YOU suck.
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Re:No US Extradition
No, you must be thinking of a different Sweden.
The Sweden I'm referring to is the one that was sterilising people who they felt were not perfect members of society such as criminals and the mentally ill all the way up until the 80s, and didn't even consider compensation until the turn of the last century:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics#Sweden
The same Sweden that supported the US' extraordinary rendition programme by acting as a stopover base for abduction of those who were sometimes even completely innocent civilians.
The same Sweden that has forced legitimate asylum seekers out of their country back to dangerous areas such as Iraq, and the same Sweden that has sent terror suspects to countries where they will and did become victims of torture:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=ENGEUR420012006&lang=e
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to which Sweden is a signatory, states:
"No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks."
Yet the Swedish PM has explicitly breached this by claiming Assange is an enemy of the Swedish people, and by suggesting he is guilty of rape before he has even been charged, let alone convicted.
That's the Sweden I'm talking about. The one that's guilty of numerous human rights violations, some of which other countries like the UK are guilty of too, others that are much worse.
The corruption perceptions index is just that- about perceived corruption not actual corruption. It is also biased towards smaller countries, because it doesn't weight for the size of public sector. This is why low population countries storm the charts, not because they're actually less corrupt. It's largely useless as a true statistical measure however it's still a useful stick to beat larger countries like the US and UK into doing even better with because it makes them look bad which I wont complain about. The more these larger influential countries have corruption beaten out of them the better.
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and plenty more
there's plenty more that the media don't talk about.
Those charming ladies and gentlemen at ICE have been known to do "the nasty"
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http://www.actagainsttorture.org/materials/StopTortureOfImmigrantsFlyer.pdf
http://www.amnestyusa.org/immigration-detention/immigrant-detention-report/page.do?id=1641033
There's a country-wide network of secret "detention zones" without beds or normal facilities, and people disappear into them all the time. We're told to be scared of the "terrists", and yet, they are our own neighbours and family.I'm never stepping foot back in Zeppoland if I can ever possibly help it - you people scare me shitless.
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Re:I'm surprised...
The US has the strictest standards when it comes to this - babies we try to save here would be written off as late-term miscarriages elsewhere.
Yeah the standards are so strict the US has been widely criticised for having the "second worst newborn death rate in modern world." Hey at least you beat Latvia. Worse still, U.S. childbirth deaths are still on the rise bucking a world wide trend. But don't worry, just turn on the TV and put on Glen Beck or some other US propagandist and he'll reassure you're The Greatest Nation On Earth(TM).
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Re:Left out the best part
There is no justification. No one is arguing that Iran is a free and pluralistic society, simply that they have been invaded and meddled with before and their security concerns are legitimate even though the regime sucks horribly.
On the other hand shooting its own citizens is only an issue when the country happens to be at odds with the US. Compared with other countries in the region, Iran is much more open and free. The elections might be bogus but there is ample discussion and participation when compared to "moderate" countries such as Egypt or Jordan (which sometimes is portrayed as a thriving democracy in the media!!!). Don't even let me get started on the kingdom of horrors (for the latest, check http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=ENGPRE012902010&lang=e&rss=recentnews) which is also often portrayed as a moderate country progressing towards freedom!!!??? -
Re:"Intent"?
Have you read the Amnesty report? That stuff is horrifying, I just read it front to back and couldn't stop.
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Re:The Whistleblowers' Blues
You're sure there are abuses? well so am I. In fact I have no doubt personally that the abuses far outweigh any possible good that can come of the classification system. Time after time throughout history the US government has classified information for the sole reason that it's embarrassing to those currently in power. Until we require a judge to review every classification for legality (and I mean every one from presidential orgies to black ops) the abuses will continue. The government's record on this is absolutely unacceptable.
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Re:Here's a better idea
Look though history, the only time Muslims, Christians and Jews lived peacefully together was under a Muslim government.
You seem to be living in la la land.
A Malaysian state court sentenced a Muslim woman to six strokes of the cane after she was caught drinking beer in a hotel in the Malaysian state of Pahang.
In Malaysia (a muslim government) your ID card not only has your religion on it, you're not allowed to change your ID card from being muslim to another religion.
Other muslim governments such as Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan aren't exactly shining beacons of hope either. You have muslims killing teachers in the south of Thailand. Muslims shooting rockets over the borders in Gaza. Muslims bombing underground trains in England. Muslims flying planes into buildings in the US.
I'm an atheist myself however I have a special hate for muslims. They want nothing but to control and make people suffer while pretending to be all about peace and love. Their religion is a disease that infects the minds of reasonable people the world over.
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Re:Capitalism !!
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Re:Pull the plug...
Um, have you read anything about the Japanese justice system? It only recently re-introduced juries and has numerous and well-documented cases of corruption that defy common sense and blatant violations of both domestic and international law.
They have a 98% conviction rate, they execute mentally ill people at about the same rate as Texas and defense attorneys have their hands tied by judges who don't even hide the fact they sympathize with the prosecution.
We in the US have 12 maybe 16 people dead from Toyata's run away cars, in Japan they did not put in cross-bar bracing in Japanese models because it costs an extra few hundred bucks, so 1000's more people have died there as a result of safety issues. In Japan because they have virtually no car safety regulation, one full time inspector and 4 part-time for the WHOLE country this is an ongoing problem with all their industries.
They are just now going through the nascent steps for unionization and they are being crushed by legal vendettas by large corporations against any individual attempting to organize for better working conditions or for consumer protection.
That is why you can't get a fair trial in Japan.
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Re:frist
You already know why, you're just playing the holier than thou act by asking the question.
In most cultures religious bullshit is by and large not the law of the land. Not so in nations under sharia law. http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=ENGNAU2009121014570&lang=e
If you want to encourage understanding of those who are muslim and not bigoted, that's fine and admirable, but to pretend you have no idea where this bias comes from is pretty lame. -
Amnesty International, on The Patriot Act
"Amnesty International is concerned that the USA PATRIOT Act:
- Creates a broad definition of "domestic terrorism" that may have a chilling effect on the U.S. and international rights to free expression and association.
- Allows non-citizens to be detained without charge and held indefinitely once charged.
- Infringes on the right to privacy and removes many types of judicial review over intelligence activities."http://www.amnestyusa.org/war-on-terror/civil-rights/page.do?id=1108209
...excuse me if I trust these guys more than your anecdotal experience with unidentified politicians.-- Terry
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Diamond measures
Yes, you can measure them in blood spilled: http://www.amnestyusa.org/amnestynow/diamonds.html
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Propaganda
Good point. I find it fascinating that slashdot is quoting a web site called "iran video news" that is run out of Arizona. If this is the only source that is reporting Iran is "considering" the death penalty then why the fuck should we believe it? We already know that the United States runs an intense media propaganda network around the world, and used it domestically during the build up to the Iraq war. In terms of Iran's use of the death penalty, they are definitely more fascist than we are, and these executions should stop. At the same time, why don't we start looking at our OWN record? Wouldn't it be easier to end our own human rights transgressions before attacking those of other countries? We've imprisoned journalists, and we've executed people who were children when they committed their crimes, the mentally retarded, and have condemned to death many people who were probably innocent, so our high horse on capital punishment and the imprisonment of journalists is not particularly "high". We've also now started imprisoning without trial and even torture.
I am sad to see slashdot fall for this obvious propaganda. I thought you guys were good critical thinkers.
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Re:containment theory...
please cite credible references besides FOX and friends. Iran is a wonderful country and your accusations are without merit.
The last election is decent proof. Even if Ahmadinejad won the election there was enough irregularities to warrant at least some 3rd party checking. Not that it matters since Iran is a theocracy with a puppet president, Khamenei is the real power, and isn't actually elected.
I view democratic ideals to be very important, as does much of the world.
Iran also has had some problems with playing nicely with people who don't want to be Muslim in their borders, like the Baha'i.
The government of Iran is a bit wonky. I'd say claiming the desire to "wipe Israel" of the map would fall under the "bully" category quite well.
For a bit more check out Amnesty International.
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Re:extended periods unavoidable with crowds
They only use it as needed in brief bursts. I'm sure there's probably some "training" they make the users of the device go through, just like the training they do for the Taser.
Therefore just like the Taser, this weapon will never be abused.
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Re:What the?
The *States* have the death penalty, not the U.S. government.. It's also why U.S. law no longer includes a death penalty, but places like Texas do.
You have no idea what you're talking about. The US Government does have a federal death penalty as well as a whole host of laws which provide for it. Here's a *small* sample:
8 U.S.C. 1342
18 U.S.C. 32-34
18 U.S.C. 36
18 U.S.C. 37
18 U.S.C. 241, 242, 245, 247
18 U.S.C. 794
18 U.S.C. 844
18 U.S.C. 924
18 U.S.C. 930
18 U.S.C. 1091
18 U.S.C. 1111
18 U.S.C. 1114 (murder of a federal judge)
18 U.S.C. 1201
18 U.S.C. 1203
18 U.S.C. 1503You can find more here.
Furthermore, the federal death penalty can be enacted in any state or territory of the US even in states that do not have a death penalty.
Additionally, the US military also has a death penalty. According to Amnesty International: As of January 2008, nine men are on military death row. Six are African-American. They are held at the U.S. Disciplinary Barracks at Ft. Leavenworth in Kansas.
And finally, the Military Commissions Act of 2006 provides for the death penalty for detainees of Guatanamo Bay for certain crimes.
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Re:A Waste?
China is actually a lot more restrained than Iran.
Not in terms of executions.
In 2008, China is purported to have performed 1,718 out of the 2,390 reported executions in the entire world. 72% is a pretty significant chunk. Iran's #2 with 346 (14%). Then again, China has not been reported to still be executing minors; Iran still does. (Source: Amnesty International) -
Re:Summary is hopelessly wrong...
The general question is simple. Should one allow a regime as unethical as Nazi Germany to possess nukes? If not, then we must evaluate N. Korea. http://www.amnestyusa.org/all-countries/north-korea/more-information-on-north-korea/page.do?id=1011313 http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2006/78777.htm
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Re:He didn't sue the mortgage banks
Since when does he have the right to pick and choose which laws he enforces?
Are you kidding me? He is just following the example set by the rest of the law enforcement agencies in the US.
The US (especially over the last 8 years) loves to make things illegal that a huge % of the population does and then they use selective enforcement to exercise their prejudiced, corrupt agendas.
Need some examples:
Picking on LGBTs
Selective enforcement of marijuana laws (over other drugs)
Selective enforcement of drug laws in black/latino communities
The DMCA -
Re:Criminal activity
I see. Is this the official Chinese description of what happened? I'm willing to admit that I might be less than fully informed, but I'm reluctant to give credibility to what the Chinese government says.
So what? The USA govt, sponsored and largely run by corporate interests (of which media corporations are subsidiary) isn't any more credible.
The USA establishment is pushing the lie that Russia was the aggressor against Georgia (which Russia was policing S. Ossetia by international agreement when they were attacked), and Presidential candidates are using that story as a call to arms against Russia!
Even the Tiananmen Square "Massacre" is a myth.
The Chinese government speaks not just though its state-controlled press, but through its actions as well, and their actions speak louder to me than their words. Members of the press from abroad have been intimidated and had pictures of protests confiscated by the Chinese government.
- How many requests for permission to protest were made? My latest sources say about 77.
- Of those, how many were granted permission to protest during the Games?
- Of those, how many actually protested during the Games?
- Learning Chinese would be great, but is more than I can do right now. What reliable and trustworthy (ie, non-government related) sources of information are there for an English-speaker like myself?
It seems that Beijing has gone out of its way to squash free speech, intimidate critics, and to imprison dissidents. Are all these sources willfully libeling China?
Have you paid attention to what's been done with protesters at the DNC and RNC events? The cops even arrested Amy Goodman and her staff; journalists from Salon.com were also threatened. Police surrounded protesters homes (no warrants, you see) and later charged them with intent to throw feces at convention-goers because they owned composting toilets; or that they were planning to make bombs because protesters had "chemicals" which turned out to be common cleaning and gardening products in their homes.
To the original topic: If it were in my power to grant or withhold, I would never entrust China (or any government - even my own) with tools that would help it roll back the shield of anonymity that protects the natural right of people to speak freely.
I can certainly agree with that.
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Re:Criminal activity
I see. Is this the official Chinese description of what happened? I'm willing to admit that I might be less than fully informed, but I'm reluctant to give credibility to what the Chinese government says. Two elderly women could face a year of "reeducation through labor" because they applied for permits to demonstrate during the Olympics, according to one of the would-be protesters.
The Chinese government speaks not just though its state-controlled press, but through its actions as well, and their actions speak louder to me than their words. Members of the press from abroad have been intimidated and had pictures of protests confiscated by the Chinese government.
- How many requests for permission to protest were made? My latest sources say about 77.
- Of those, how many were granted permission to protest during the Games?
- Of those, how many actually protested during the Games?
- Learning Chinese would be great, but is more than I can do right now. What reliable and trustworthy (ie, non-government related) sources of information are there for an English-speaker like myself?
It seems that Beijing has gone out of its way to squash free speech, intimidate critics, and to imprison dissidents. Are all these sources willfully libeling China?
To the original topic: If it were in my power to grant or withhold, I would never entrust China (or any government - even my own) with tools that would help it roll back the shield of anonymity that protects the natural right of people to speak freely.