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I read this today, and although it's not related to monitors it's at least somewhat relevant to graphics performance. NavisWorks is a CAD-type visualization program used in engineering and architecture to provide live fly-throughs (and other cool stuff) inside 3D models. Workstation cards cost about $800, while consumer-level cards cost about $150.

There are two types of graphics cards commercially available: workstation and consumer. Workstation graphics cards are much higher priced than consumer cards, because they generally offer more stable drivers and are tested and optimized to work across a wide range of leading CAD applications. Examples of current workstation quality graphics cards include NVIDIA Quadro® FX and ATI FireGL(TM).

Consumer graphics cards are usually relatively inexpensive. However, they are generally optimized for video games, and it is necessary that you install the latest driver versions as they are released. Examples of current consumer quality graphics cards include NVIDIA GeForce® FX and ATI Radeon(TM).

Autodesk performance testing has found that NavisWorks performs well on both workstation and consumer graphics cards, with neither offering any performance advantage over the other. It is strongly recommended that you buy the best card your budget can afford and keep the drivers up to date.

Source: http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/item?siteID=123112&id=11905783&linkID=10382101

Inkscape is a vector editor, and doesn't support automatic layout when you move items around. At least that I know of, if you can tell me how, you'll make me very happy. That said, I use Inkscape for making presentation graphics in Linux, but it's not really a Visio replacement.

Reddit had a thread on this topic a few months ago, which you can find here: AskReddit: What is the best Visio replacement?

Some of the better suggestions were:

• OmniGraffle - Great, but Apple only
• Gliffy
• Project Draw
• yEd
• OpenOffice.org Draw
• Dia

I always thought niggers' computers were slow because they didn't know how to use 'em but now I guess it has a lot more to do with the fact that niggers are loudly hootin' and hollerin' all the damn time.

I would never hire an overgrown chimpanzee to work with me at my Pixar rendering farm, that's for damn sure. Good CGI depends on Maya, not on mayates .

I work for an architect office, and we use Buzzsaw http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=2407898 for sharing documents. It doesn't limit what is done with the documents once they are downloaded, but it gives exact details of who took what. Use fulaudit trail (amongst other things ;) )

Actually we do use cards like this. Think of the film "The Dark Night" This was shot on I-max resolution film. That's 70mm size film which they scanned in at 8k. Now you want to color correct that film. There is no way your going to want to do that in less then real time. The guys doing it get paid way to much and the equipment that they use rents for way to much to just have them waiting around for a render even if its from the renderfarm. With 4GB of ram you would have one hell of a frame buffer and with the ability to calculate some of the more complicated things in the hardware in real time you can get way more done.

Here are some systems that already use Nvidia 2GB quadro cards:
Inferno
Luster
Toxic

Actually we do use cards like this. Think of the film "The Dark Night" This was shot on I-max resolution film. That's 70mm size film which they scanned in at 8k. Now you want to color correct that film. There is no way your going to want to do that in less then real time. The guys doing it get paid way to much and the equipment that they use rents for way to much to just have them waiting around for a render even if its from the renderfarm. With 4GB of ram you would have one hell of a frame buffer and with the ability to calculate some of the more complicated things in the hardware in real time you can get way more done.

Here are some systems that already use Nvidia 2GB quadro cards:
Inferno
Luster
Toxic

Actually we do use cards like this. Think of the film "The Dark Night" This was shot on I-max resolution film. That's 70mm size film which they scanned in at 8k. Now you want to color correct that film. There is no way your going to want to do that in less then real time. The guys doing it get paid way to much and the equipment that they use rents for way to much to just have them waiting around for a render even if its from the renderfarm. With 4GB of ram you would have one hell of a frame buffer and with the ability to calculate some of the more complicated things in the hardware in real time you can get way more done.

Here are some systems that already use Nvidia 2GB quadro cards:
Inferno
Luster
Toxic

Shake has always been available for Linux - in fact, it has been ported to MacOS/Windows from that OS. Shake 4 for Linux is sold for $4999 right now.

Besides, have you heard about Autodesk Smoke? That's a complete Linux-based online video editing suite.

Be careful there. Some marketing genius will follow that to its logical conclusion and decide "we'll just turn the version up to the max"... oh, too late.

Happily, it looks to me as though this is going to happen, regardless of whether everyone likes it or not. I'm sure they'll give you a configuration setting to turn off web fonts, though, so you can go on reading Times New Roman and Arial until the end of your days if you'd like.

You mean because the W3C was too stupid or lazy to provide a solution without the ridiculous layer of DRM?

I mean, I get that designers shouldn't be limited to an arbitrary set of 'approved' fonts. But what's the point of adding the proprietary layer on top of the TrueType/Opentype container? Why bring complexity when it clearly can't protect anything?

What's a Google? Around 10^100
What's a Yahoo!? A crude or boorish person.
What's a WinAmp? Some sort of political blog.
What's a Slashdot? HALTING ERROR
What's a Firefox? A group of crop circle enthusiasts.
What's an eBay? An employment agency.
What's a NewEgg? Another political forum, this one invite only.
What's a Lightwave? Some sort of fan-fic blog.
What's a Nero? Nero (Nero Claudius Caesar) was born in 37 A.D. and died in 68 A.D. (pp. 154)
What's an Outlook Express? Some sort of torture device.
What's a Visual Studio? A far more subtle tourture device.
What's an AutoCAD? An employment agency.

Really, you're on the net, there's no excuse for not knowing this stuff.

"...ray tracing and rasterization debate"

I don't think there is any debate at all, RayTracing is by far superior, there is just the problem of computing power.

Anyone (perhaps ask the modelers for the games) who deals with 3D software, knows the benefits of RayTracing for simulating reality (Reflections, Ambient Occlusion, Sub-Surface Scattering, etc)

And once computing power reaches that level it will even speed up the process of creating games because you can let the RayTracing take care of shadows, reflections, highlights, etc instead of manually mapping them.

Take a look at anything LightWave, Maya, 3Dsmax, Softimage, Blender, etc spits out of its render engines, or visual effects in recent movies... granted, that's (as stated a few times in the discussion) years away... but, I don't think anyone is arguing against RayTracing.

(-1 Bastard) ...but...whatever, ive been waiting for real-time RayTracing for years even just within my own 3D applications, nevermind games...

"...ray tracing and rasterization debate"

I don't think there is any debate at all, RayTracing is by far superior, there is just the problem of computing power.

Anyone (perhaps ask the modelers for the games) who deals with 3D software, knows the benefits of RayTracing for simulating reality (Reflections, Ambient Occlusion, Sub-Surface Scattering, etc)

And once computing power reaches that level it will even speed up the process of creating games because you can let the RayTracing take care of shadows, reflections, highlights, etc instead of manually mapping them.

Take a look at anything LightWave, Maya, 3Dsmax, Softimage, Blender, etc spits out of its render engines, or visual effects in recent movies... granted, that's (as stated a few times in the discussion) years away... but, I don't think anyone is arguing against RayTracing.

(-1 Bastard) ...but...whatever, ive been waiting for real-time RayTracing for years even just within my own 3D applications, nevermind games...

While I'm all for open source and regarding hardware drivers I wouldn't want it any other way, let's not forget that open source does not have to be pushed around at the application level at the expense of usability. Professional-level applications are critical for the use and expansion of Linux, and proprietary software vendors should be encouraged to develop their software for Linux, not alienated by being badgered to give away their source code. Currently, there is a heated discussion on the Debian list regarding PCB and CAD software availability. One camp (me) is encouraging users to write to software houses and to request that they port their software to Linux, with the other camp rejecting all contact with proprietary software vendors unless it is a demand for the source code. Currently, myself and other engineers cannot use Linux at work because we must run proprietary engineering software, such as Solidworks in my case. For those who want to help, please write to these companies and let them know that we are interested in their software on Linux:

Intuit (Quicken, Quickbooks) http://www.intuit.com/contact/ (requires registration)

Adobe (Photoshop, Flash CS3 Professional, Captivate, Dreamweaver, Studio) http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

Sony (Vegas Studio) http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/corporate/contacts.asp

Autodesk (Autocad) http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=1073074

SolidWorks http://www.solidworks.com/pages/company/SolidWorksOfficeWorldwide.html (requires registration)

Sage (Act!) http://www.act.com/company/contactus/

Nuance (Dragon Naturally Speaking) http://www.nuance.com/help/contact/

hardin-soft (BM-Win Plus (mailing address correction software)) http://www.hardin-soft.com//forms/feedback.html

Daz (Bryce (3D modeling and animation)) http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/support/rnlogin/-/?p_sid=vOwOJN6j&p_accessibility=&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=&p_li=&p_next_page=std_alp.php (requires registration)

ArenaNet (Guild wars): http://www.arena.net/contact.php

Ironclad Games (Sins of a Solar Empire) http://www.ironcladgames.com/contact.html

Blizzard Entertainment (World of Warcraft) http://us.blizzard.com/support/webform-us.xml?gameId=0

Firzxis (Civilization IV) http://www.firaxis.com/support/

Electronic Arts (lots of games) http://www.info.ea.com/company/company_prlist.php

My personal problem is that I need Solidworks, so for emphasis I'll repeat their address here:
http://www.solidworks.com/pages/company/SolidWorksOfficeWorldwide.html

Please write to these companies and let them know that we need their products on Linux. Copy the list and write to one company a week. Thanks.

They already have the PLU, which is just ONE way to create an extreme hassle to would-be second-owners, and a deterrent to first-purchaser resales.

Basically, the PLU, or portable license utility, is installed with every protected Autodesk product. Well, at least with AutoCAD. After you register and authorize your licensed copy (electronically or over the phone, etc), the PLU ties that license to that machine. If you install and try to run another instance of the software on another machine, or even reinstall on your own after a total disk wipe, you'll have to re-register or at least get re-authorization.

http://discussion.autodesk.com/thread.jspa?threadID=608297

http://discussion.autodesk.com/thread.jspa?threadID=478591

http://www.autodesk.co.uk/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=452932&id=6005296&preview=1

http://www.cvis.com/MP/Using_the_Portable_License_Utility.htm

http://www.tovna.com/main/softlock.htm

http://www.cadforum.cz/cadforum_en/qaID.asp?tip=2396

When you want to legally for a day or a week or whatever transfer the user activity from one machine to another, you activate the PLU, specify the target machine to which the license is to be sent. When done, do the same on the current machine to get the license back to your original machine. If you botch it, you've got to call Autodesk. Botch it TOO many times, they'll forever deny re-authorization for that particular license.

If confused, contact Autodesk, or go visit the AUGI and other sites.

I don't particularly have a problem with the PLU. But, if the PLU is used to deprive resale by legitimate license holders who want to dispose of the product and maybe use a competing product, then "locking in" the user is heinous. I use AutoCAD for WORK. But, for my hobby, I use TurboCAD and Punch! ViaCAD and marine products meant for ship design. AutoCAD 2009 and even 08 have some nifty features, but about all I don't like about TC & VC is their pseudo-command-line is limited to single strokes, not multiple characters. That makes me think AutoCAD has some "patent" lock or threat against other CAD companies attacking AD on the command line. If that is TRUE, then that'll be yet another reason for me to continue using the smaller guy for my non-work activities.

They already have the PLU, which is just ONE way to create an extreme hassle to would-be second-owners, and a deterrent to first-purchaser resales.

Basically, the PLU, or portable license utility, is installed with every protected Autodesk product. Well, at least with AutoCAD. After you register and authorize your licensed copy (electronically or over the phone, etc), the PLU ties that license to that machine. If you install and try to run another instance of the software on another machine, or even reinstall on your own after a total disk wipe, you'll have to re-register or at least get re-authorization.

http://discussion.autodesk.com/thread.jspa?threadID=608297

http://discussion.autodesk.com/thread.jspa?threadID=478591

http://www.autodesk.co.uk/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=452932&id=6005296&preview=1

http://www.cvis.com/MP/Using_the_Portable_License_Utility.htm

http://www.tovna.com/main/softlock.htm

http://www.cadforum.cz/cadforum_en/qaID.asp?tip=2396

When you want to legally for a day or a week or whatever transfer the user activity from one machine to another, you activate the PLU, specify the target machine to which the license is to be sent. When done, do the same on the current machine to get the license back to your original machine. If you botch it, you've got to call Autodesk. Botch it TOO many times, they'll forever deny re-authorization for that particular license.

If confused, contact Autodesk, or go visit the AUGI and other sites.

I don't particularly have a problem with the PLU. But, if the PLU is used to deprive resale by legitimate license holders who want to dispose of the product and maybe use a competing product, then "locking in" the user is heinous. I use AutoCAD for WORK. But, for my hobby, I use TurboCAD and Punch! ViaCAD and marine products meant for ship design. AutoCAD 2009 and even 08 have some nifty features, but about all I don't like about TC & VC is their pseudo-command-line is limited to single strokes, not multiple characters. That makes me think AutoCAD has some "patent" lock or threat against other CAD companies attacking AD on the command line. If that is TRUE, then that'll be yet another reason for me to continue using the smaller guy for my non-work activities.

You really shouldn't complain about that... It's a very expensive niche overall, and the prices are still much cheaper than they used to be.

XSI - http://softimage.com/products/xsi/pricing.aspx
3dsmax / Maya - http://store.autodesk.com/store/adsk/DisplaySubCategoryProductListPage/categoryID.10101800

Blender's popularity is no doubt partially because of its 'affordability' :)

Blender's UI is internally consistent, but it is by nature not consistent with much of anything else, because everything else is about 2d stuff

Lightwave, Maya, and 3D Max are 2D? There are no 3D apps besides Blender?

Blender's UI is internally consistent, but it is by nature not consistent with much of anything else, because everything else is about 2d stuff

Lightwave, Maya, and 3D Max are 2D? There are no 3D apps besides Blender?

>NOTHING on Linux rivals the Adobe CS collection.

For print, maybe; as a web programmer I find the gimp and mtasc/flex3 allow me to do everything I need. And if it didn't, CS3 works in wine.

>NOTHING on Linux rivals AVID (or even Final Cut Pro).

Autodesk has a line ov high grade professional video editing software for linux. http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/linux_wp_2006.pdf

NOTHING on Linux rivals ProTools.

This is true. There are several tools but they are all inferior; but this will change over time. I am not an audio guy tho, so I didn't need to wait for audio tools to switch. YMMV

Says the person who's using an edition of AutoCAD that Autodesk retired all support and discounts for last week. Yeah, that's Vista's fault that you use a software suite that's nearly 4 generations old.

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=7176852

We recently upgraded to AutoCAD 2008, and 40% of our workstations are Vista. Zero problems here.

The only fucking games on communist linsux are lamr puzzles and a yahtzee clone thatcan't fucking randomize properly.

Maybe you've heard of a little game studio called Id Software? Or Epic Games? I'm not even going to mention what works on Wine.

Whie we're at it, where are the professional 3D applications?

Oh, I don't know, Maya? That's off the top of my head -- I don't do 3D professionally.

But while we're at it, why did you bring up games in what is clearly an article about professional graphic design hardware? Or do you actually buy Quadro cards and wonder why your games run like shit?

I am not talkin about the gpl3 shit

Like what? Closest I can think of is blender, which is under the GPLv2. Is that what you're not talking about?

BTW, great initals, Richard stallman=RMS Titanic

Yeah, because that was totally unique to the Titanic. Except it wasn't -- it actually stands for "Royal Mail Ship".

Then you wonder why you can't get a fucking job

I'm doing nicely, thank you.

Never suspected it was the Windows fanbois living in their mother's basements all along, though. Thanks for that, you just made my day.

If you're running Maya, would should be running the drivers/distro that Autodesk blesses. Last I checked, that was 2-3 year old drivers on RHEL 4/SLES 9/Fedora Core 5. I run the blessed packages for a small animation studio and only have problems when people out of memory their system (8GB RAM should be enough for anybody). http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=9683256 has the list of blessed stuff.

The most important difference is the support you get with the card. Basically the pro cards are guaranteed to work with all the top end software like Maya/Max/XSI etc. If you buy any other card it's highly likely that something won't work and won't be fixed with a driver update in the future. Whereas the new top end cards are much more likely to work in the first place, or receive a driver update if it breaks on the latest software. Paying 4x as much for a gpu seems cheap when you look at the down time caused in your $10million project when hardware rendering breaks down. Check out the maya hardware requirements webpage. http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=9683256/ Notice how the latest software only tells you about FireGL/Quadro cards.

Of course a gamer isn't going to need a heavily tested driver for Maya which is why they're seen as expensive for the power these cards have. Their strength is in the driver.

Maybe I've done too much playing around with CGI in my spare time, but I'd have to disagree with your claim that "we're already there" on the grounds that I got 10 out of 10 at http://www.autodesk.com/eng/etc/fake_or_foto/index.html, then 4/4 in the bonus round.

Still drawing machines on paper, instead of using a CAD? Never used a text editor? Never used a computer algebra system and still computing integrals by hand? Never searched for cheap airplane tickets? Many people use these things, you know. I'm quite happy with the second and the third one, at least.

How about Autodesk 3ds Max, Autodesk Cleaner & Cleaner XL, Autodesk FBX, Autodesk Flame, Autodesk Inferno, Autodesk Lustre, Autodesk Maya, Autodesk MotionBuilder, Autodesk Mudbox, Autodesk Smoke, and Autodesk Toxik?

Used to make movies such as The Fountain, The Covenant, Charlottes Web, Casino Royale, Stranger Than Fiction, D-War, Night at the Museum, Apocalypto, Blood Diamond, Unaccompanied Minors, Rocky Balboa, Babel, The Black Dahlia, and For Your Consideration

Oh, you mean CHEAP movie editor on Linux. (note the emphasis)

http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/linux_wp_2006.pdf

Sorry to reply to myself, but here is a link to Autodesk's whitepaper talking about how Linux is teh best system for professional video post-production. If you are working for a production company (like I do), you already know this. :)

http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/linux_wp_2006.pdf

Nothing like OpenCanvas?! You mean, Corel doesn't make Painter for the Mac anymore? Has Autodesk stopped selling Sketchbook Pro for OS X? If not, then you are speaking out of a dark orifice.

Unfortunately in some industries (I work in public - i.e. government - healthcare) there really isn't any competition for X vendor. I'd be interested in hearing your views on how to deal with that type of situation, as it is probably all too common and I imagine that in the aforesaid cases, the vendor would be quite happy to "call your bluff" so to speak. I'm sure ours isn't the only industry where there isn't a lot of competition (3D modelling comes to mind - is there a Linux version of Maya or Lightwave?)

Maya already runs on Linux, at least according to the Wikipedia page and Maya's own product page (look toward the bottom for a list of OSes). Meanwhile, LightWave's engine has apparently been ported to Linux, suggesting that a full version might not be too far off.

I'm not trying to pooh-pooh your situation at all. I'm a Japanese-English translator, so I think I can sympathize -- there's pitifully little in the FOSS arena (or even just the commercial-but-Linux-compatible arena) that does what I need it to. I just want to point out that the software world is changing extraordinarily quickly. Look around, you might be surprised what you find. And if you really can't find anything that fits your bill, give it a year or two and look again.

Cheers,

Additionally they have a subscription service with a different pricing scheme. Autocad there is about 400 dollar I guess, it doesn't mention on what timespan, a year probably.

All this data on their own website points in one direction: for 4000 dollars you buy the software package after which you own that copy of the software package, to do what you want with it. For a subscription price you can buy a subscription where you don't own the software but it makes sure that during your subscription they 'lend' you the most recent software.

Additionally they have a subscription service with a different pricing scheme. Autocad there is about 400 dollar I guess, it doesn't mention on what timespan, a year probably.

All this data on their own website points in one direction: for 4000 dollars you buy the software package after which you own that copy of the software package, to do what you want with it. For a subscription price you can buy a subscription where you don't own the software but it makes sure that during your subscription they 'lend' you the most recent software.

Additionally they have a subscription service with a different pricing scheme. Autocad there is about 400 dollar I guess, it doesn't mention on what timespan, a year probably.

All this data on their own website points in one direction: for 4000 dollars you buy the software package after which you own that copy of the software package, to do what you want with it. For a subscription price you can buy a subscription where you don't own the software but it makes sure that during your subscription they 'lend' you the most recent software.

• Maya
• ModelSim
• MatLab
• MentorGraphics
• Cadence

Hell I'd buy a decent video editing app for linux. It does not exist. Main Actor is utter crap and is the only commercial offering.

Try running, say..... Maya. Or Motion.

Ultimately, the point I'm aiming at is that paying premium prices for bargain basement video really chafes my ass - if I'm going to lay down for kit that's twice the price of an equivalently powered wintel box, I'd like some name brand video and user access to all of the system memory.

It is not 3DS, but Maya is available native for Linux. Hollywood is big on Linux, so they made a port.

Probably because Maya for Mac OS X is only 32-bit. Look here:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID= 123112&id=7639522

  While Maya for Mac does support both Intel and G5 it only runs in the 32-bit mode. A high-end 3D software limited to under 4GB of RAM isn't that good an idea... And is probably the reason people don't use it that much.

Trust me, CGI effects are absolutely up to scratch for explosions. I think it's more likely that those with plumes of black smoke are done on effects machines because that's what people expect, rather than using gasoline.

Explosions are actually rather easy, and the software somewhat cheap (see Particle Illusion for one such solution). One of the best showreels I have seen is Autodesk's. It goes to show that almost every work whose post-production goes further than clip rearranging and editing has effects of some sort; most of which you won't even notice.

There are one or two good ones.

Autodesk Smoke is probably the only Linux based editor I would recommend.

Probably not what you were looking for but 2004 LT had this problem and after I applied the patch people were able to log in from their roaming profile but it just gave them a new autocad profile everytime they logged in. Calls to tech support said this was the intended fix...wtf? I ended up giving the users a local login so they didnt have to reconfigure their settings everytime they logged in. http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/item?siteI D=123112&id=3991931&linkID=2475874 I read your 2006 - 2007 upgrade problems....that is the suck. This is why there should be competition.

They may have. Or they may have made something totally different for the 3D CAD market. Either way, it's called AutoDesk Inventor. It's a fairly developed product, and it's capabilities are still being expanded. My engineer coworker does amazing things with it. And I program against its API for some pretty cool stuff, too.

http://students2.autodesk.com/?lbon=1

* FREE products subject to the terms and conditions of the end-user license agreement that accompanies download of the software. Autodesk reserves the right to alter product offerings and specifications at any time without notice, and is not responsible for typographical or graphical errors that may appear herein.

Autodesk owns both Maya and 3DS Max, so I think it's a bit too early to say "good bye Autodesk". Perhaps they're not dominating the 3D CAD segment, but in principle the difference between a general 3D modeler and a CAD program is marginal.

Autodesk owns both Maya and 3DS Max, so I think it's a bit too early to say "good bye Autodesk". Perhaps they're not dominating the 3D CAD segment, but in principle the difference between a general 3D modeler and a CAD program is marginal.

Linux simply killed our capacity to produce here...

The commercial Autodesk Maya was used by Weta Digital to create the Lord of the Rings triology. Maya is, as you can see, available for use under Linux.

For Desktop Publishing you can use the Free Scribus which I have used to produce very nice pamphlets and booklets.

Linux has come of age in recent months and the excuse that it is not suitable for ordinary folks to do ordinary computer jobs is simply not true any more.

No, it is not. Closed source is like painting the Sistine Chapel but locking the building and selling tiny postcards with photographs of it. No one ever gets to see it as you really intended it to be appreciated.

Okay, we're really stretching this analogy quite thin. However, you're wrong on this point. How many places now sell you software but don't let you try it out? Microsoft will give you a 180 day trial on Windows Server 2003 as well as trials of just about any of their products -- Office or Visual Studio and SQL Server or many others. Microsoft effectively gives you the full, real postcard for six months. If you like it, buy the postcard. If you don't, return (uninstall) it. Any decent company lets you have a thorough evaluation before you purchase. If they don't, take your business elsewhere.

Some companies offer fully functional demos, some offer demos with functionality disabled (try out the postcard, write on it, only you just can't send it through the mail) -- there's really no end to options as far as trial and demo versions. Like I said, if you're looking at some software which doesn't have a demo/trial available, you can probably ask for one from the company and, if they refuse, you won't have to look too far for another company which does. Every major PC videogame out there has a demo for download. If there isn't one, odds are the game sucks I wouldn't buy it without a demo either. Hell, you can even get a demo of AutoCAD... something that would have been unheard of years ago.

Your assertion that closed source is like looking at a tiny postcard of what you'd eventually get is like arguing that you only get to look at brochures before buying a new car. Haven't you heard? The auto manufacturers now allow you to take them out for a test drive even though they don't hand out the car's "source code". Granted, it's a fairly limited test drive (imperfect car analogy again) but if vehicles weren't subject to wear and tear, I'm sure they'd love to have you drive it for a month or more and get you hooked on the features of their vehicle so that you're more likely to end up buying it.

By the way, I personally see it as just a bit unethical that you can make a fortune off of copies.

Tell that to any commercial Linux vendor. Also, Slashdot makes money by serving up copies of other peoples content and throwing ads on top of it all. Yet here you are, participating in dubious ethics. :)

Again, I'm going to have to disagree. I was saying you don't have to do network analysis because the crash report utility is predictable and dependable. When you view the details of what's being sent, that's what's getting sent. It doesn't hide information, hence kicking open Etherial every time isn't really necessary when you can just view the report in the UI.

Your example of an uninitialized buffer doesn't make much sense. If we were talking about your unix crashdumps, that would be an issue. We're not. What's at issue is a stack trace. You'd need a pretty convoluted example to get uninitialized buffer data into a stack trace and be able to interpret it on the other end. A stack trace is a list of function calls, not data. I really don't see how leaks of that sort could happen.

I'll take you at your word that you have some debugging experience. The windows crash util isn't sending images of the application's memory (crashdumps as you called them). Therefore situations such as your boeing/airbus CAD example aren't possible. Say you're fiddling around in AutoCAD and things go south while extruding some plines. About all the windows crash util is going to report is that there was a crash that occurred in the extrude function, called through by whatever mechanism you used to call it, say a custom toolbar button you added, and platform details. The CAD data you're working on would not be sent. It's also anonymous so you couldn't target an individual and look up their crash reports.

Of course, it's still a case-by-case tool which gives you the option to say no in those cases. I just prefer to say yes in all the other cases rather than creating policy around the extreme case (the DoD example). The point of sending in these crash reports is so that companies like autodesk get productive feedback on their apps. For all we know, they've been able to eliminate 80 or 90% of crashes from the pre/early-XP releases thanks to aggregated crash reports passed along from Microsoft's utility.

In any case, AutoDesk finds this kind of information useful because they've implemented their own crash report utility with a similar goal as what's MS is pushing where reports dig up solutions and notify users when patches become available. Since it's their app, they can send additional information which they know isn't going to contain sensitve user data, eg the number of lines in the drawing. Here's the link.

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID= 123112&id=7047344&linkID=2475323

*shurg* - ymmv...