Slashdot Mirror


Netflix Extends "Watch Instantly" To Mac Users

CNet is reporting that Netflix has opened up its "Watch Instantly" feature to Mac users (here is Netflix's blog entry). They accomplished this by using Microsoft's Silverlight technology on both platforms, abandoning the Windows Media Player solution that had been employed in the first, Windows-only, version. Silverlight's DRM capabilities meet Netflix's needs, apparently. Netflix warns that this is beta software. Mac users can opt in here, then watch instantly with Safari or Firefox 2+, with the Silverlight plugin in place. Movie selection is somewhat limited.

205 comments

  1. DRM pushes Silverlight by Hannes2000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am really afraid of DRM giving Silverlight power and more distribution (and vice versa). While Flash has (or will have?) DRM capabilities too, another "competitor" on the DRM market could really make things even worse than they are.

    1. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by plasmacutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I am really afraid of DRM giving Silverlight power and more distribution (and vice versa). While Flash has (or will have?) DRM capabilities too, another "competitor" on the DRM market could really make things even worse than they are.

      On the contrary, more "competition" in the DRM realm is the best way to make things better than they are.

      competing formats == more people frustrated and screaming "why the hell isn't this working" at the top of their lungs.

      Of course, base silverlight without the DRM packages will work just fine at doing that. In fact, that's my guess at why it "meets their requirements".

      Nothing makes a more "secure" drm than a codec and playback system with arguably the lowest market penetration and adoption rate as of this post. Security by obscurity at its best.

      In the mean time, there's a better competitor to netflix for those who want their full HD movies in a watchable, savable, and compatible format.

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    2. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't matter how many companies adopt it if the customers don't want it.

    3. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      All these problems could be solved with .avi

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    4. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      I want all my movies to be .avi and thats what I get.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    5. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Does this mean netflix/silverlight can play on an iphone? All iphone users, I challenge you.

    6. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      All these problems could be solved with .mkv

      Fixed that for you.

    7. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      News flash! Customers want contents they don't care who made the software.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    8. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by DigDuality · · Score: 2, Informative

      i'd prefer theora.

    9. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by Gewalt · · Score: 3, Funny

      i'd prefer theora.

      That's unique. No, really, I mean it. You're the only one in the world. Literally.

      --
      Modding Trolls +1 inciteful since 1999
    10. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the mean time, there's a better competitor to netflix for those who want their full HD movies in a watchable, savable, and compatible format.

      In the mean time, there's a better competitor to netflix for those who want their full HD movies in a[n] illegal, watchable, savable, and compatible format.

    11. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by KGIII · · Score: 1

      A quick search says that Microsoft wants to put Silverlight on the iPhone... Maybe... In the not too distant future... Maybe... But, who knows?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    12. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

      I don't know, ability to rip an entire dvd, embed subtitles and multiple audio tracks, and have my sound in ogg (giving slightly better compression/quality) is a nice perk. Not really worth the loss of compatibility with other programs though.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    13. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by benwaggoner · · Score: 1

      Theora is a codec, equivalent to VC-1 and H.264. It's also a lot less efficient, so you'd get lower quality given a particular bitrate.

      AVI is a wrapper, equivalent to AVI, ASF, or MPEG-4. If you're talking about alternatives to AVI for Theora, you probably mean Ogg

      But Silverlight itself isn't a media format, but a rich application runtime for browsers based on .net. Silverlight 2 mainly uses WMV as its media format, but it will be addding MPEG-4 and H.264 soon.

      http://on10.net/blogs/benwagg/H264-and-AAC-support-coming-in-Silverlight/

      I have no idea what the OP meant about AVI solving all the problems, honestly. It's not a very good wrapper; its main value is simplicity.

    14. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      All these problems could be solved with .mp4

      There, fixed that for you with a real-world, already in widespread use, industry-standard CODEC.

    15. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by I'm+Don+Giovanni · · Score: 1

      That you're advocating a pirate site as a "better competitor" to netflix would seem to justify the use of DRM. It's interesting to see pirates like yourself complain about DRM. It's like burglars complaining about people feeling the need to lock their doors.

      --
      -- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
    16. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      I've only seen .mp4 ONCE and never again, who uses it?

      We pirates use .avi

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    17. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      You can't change how things work. These are the same type of guys who didn't bother with multiplatform server/client structure which would allow them to stream even to iPhone today.

      Stuff like these: http://www.realnetworks.com/products/media_delivery.html

      Some kind of "money under table" going on as usual. Do you think the old Windows Media only streamers/embedders used it because it was the best option available? Now Flash took over and Silverlight tries the same trick to gain ground. It has nothing to do with the technology, it has something to do with integrity of people choosing these technologies.

      The issue with Silverlight is, it is not a true multiplatform thing, being x86 Mac only gives a very good clue about what it is.It comes from the very same company who doesn't say "NOT FOR INTEL MACS or ANYTHING HIGHER THAN 2003 OS X" in their "Windows Media Player for OS X" page resulting in huge amount of stability/performance loss. They still keep that damn thing available so unsuspecting Windows Switchers will download and rape their browsing and OS stability. If you have a buggy/outdated/not compiled for your CPU plugin on OS X, God help you since every single browser (even including Webkit framework using ordinary apps) will load it.

      http://www.microsoft.com/mac/downloads.mspx?pid=Mactopia_WMP&fid=1E974157-5031-4AC6-840A-6E07547B6AEB#viewer

      Do you see anything about being PPC only, not updated there? If I told you it sometimes makes to top 10 of Apple Downloads (since they submitted!), you can imagine the degree of situation.

      I am running PowerPC and Silverlight 2 is not available to my CPU. If it was, I would seriously think twice about using/installing it.

    18. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by Ilgaz · · Score: 0

      When MS says "soon" about a industry standard codec, you better take it as "MS soon".

      MS is not trying to compete on Media delivery/playback business. Speaking as general , they are just seriously irritated by that kid opting in for Asus Eee PC running Linux "because it can play youtube too". Silverlight 2 exists for OS X, at least Intel? Where is Universal binary of Windows Media Player for OS X with current codecs and current DRM? That is a good benchmark to see the real MS intentions.

      Also where is Quicktime Framework encoding codec pack of Silverlight? Where is .NET Framework for OS X which will plug into Xcode? Not that Mono thing. The true thing, just like MS Office for OS X.

    19. Re:DRM pushes Silverlight by konohitowa · · Score: 1

      The true thing, just like MS Office for OS X.

      You mean one that's intentionally missing key functionality in order to reduce the threat of Macs spreading into businesses? You don't really think that Access & Project not being ported to the Mac is a simple oversight, do you?

  2. Firefox FTW by SwabTheDeck · · Score: 1, Informative

    This also theoretically opens the door to watching movies in Windows WITHOUT having to use IE. I never understood why IE was required to begin with since the current non-beta DRM was Windows Media-based.

    1. Re:Firefox FTW by TiberSeptm · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not just theoretical. I'm doing it on Firefox 3 right now.

    2. Re:Firefox FTW by dotancohen · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm doing it on Firefox 3 right now.

      You've got me beat. I've done it on the kitchen table once or twice, and once _almost_ did it on a bus.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    3. Re:Firefox FTW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, I only use ie for the netflix, and until now I've never used silverlight (or even installed it).

      Netflix's "watch instantly" could be _the_ killer app for silverlight -- or should I say Trojan Horse.

    4. Re:Firefox FTW by stephanruby · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You mean you're doing it in the "IE Tab" extension inside Firefox?

    5. Re:Firefox FTW by XLR8DST8 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      i once got busy in a burger king bathroom..

    6. Re:Firefox FTW by ben0207 · · Score: 1

      I've done it on a pile of PowerMacs, so I've sort of done it on OS X.

      Not quite Firefox though...

      --
      cmd-q.co.uk - some sort of stupid fucking internet bullshit
    7. Re:Firefox FTW by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      System requirements clearly state IE6 or FF2+. There's no theory about it.

      http://www.netflix.com/WiMessage?msg=51

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    8. Re:Firefox FTW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean you're doing it in the "IE Tab" extension inside Firefox?

      No, he means he's doing it in Firefox 3 using the Silverlight plugin which allows Silverlight to run natively in Firefox.

    9. Re:Firefox FTW by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 3, Informative

      You mean you're doing it in the "IE Tab" extension inside Firefox?

      Noooo. He means he installed the Silverlight plugin and is watching it natively in Firefox. Y'know, basically what this whole article is about.

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    10. Re:Firefox FTW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pfft.

      Server room. I win.

    11. Re:Firefox FTW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      You mean you once got busy in a BLEEP bathroom.

    12. Re:Firefox FTW by Gewalt · · Score: 1

      Why was this modded insightful? Unless you were too lazy to even read the comment he was replying to let alone TFS, let alone TFA, its patently clear that the parents "correction" is incorrect.

      --
      Modding Trolls +1 inciteful since 1999
    13. Re:Firefox FTW by TiberSeptm · · Score: 1

      I also probably should have emphasized that I was doing it on a windows machine. If only MS would release silverlight for linux like they say they plan to. Silverlight for Linux Announced MS and Novell Collaberation

    14. Re:Firefox FTW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just an example of how Slashdotters have come to "HATE HATE HATE" Silverlight without actually knowing what it does.

      *Actual* horrors of Silverlight aside, wasn't there some guy who said something on the lines of a lie being repeated over and over again being accepted as truth?

    15. Re:Firefox FTW by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Actually... I did that during the Olympics a few times. (I almost always have at least two different brands of browser open.)

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    16. Re:Firefox FTW by LameAssTheMity · · Score: 1

      After reading your post, I ran out and installed Silverlight on my PC, but when I browse over to the instant watch area of the netflix, it still says that my browser is incompatible. How are you getting around this?

      I'm using the most recent version of FF, googled silverlight and installed the first thing from microsoft's website.

    17. Re:Firefox FTW by Neoprofin · · Score: 1

      Here here!

      I could never get the IE version to work on any of my systems because (I assume) I'm using an outdated version and have IE so locked up a stripped for security reasons that trying to figure our which setting it doesn't like is absolutely impossible.

      Away I go to watch movies at work with the power of Firefox.

    18. Re:Firefox FTW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where can I get the Silverlight 2.0 Plugin for my PowerPC Mac?

      Oh, wait, there is none.

    19. Re:Firefox FTW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't we do it in the road?

    20. Re:Firefox FTW by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      Why don't we do it in the road?

      Because if you do it in front of a car you get tired. And if you do it behind the car you get exhausted.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    21. Re:Firefox FTW by street+struttin' · · Score: 1

      I just ran the beta netflix thing, too. I used opera/silverlight/OSX and it works great. Cool!

    22. Re:Firefox FTW by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      There are firefox extensions that will help you change the user agent by which you're identified with, and there is Opera that lets you do that through its preferences, but that being said, it might just be easier to install the IE Tab addon on firefox -- that works just fine for me (on my old or my new computer, on my slow cheap dsl line, without any of the flickers that someone else was mentioning earlier).

    23. Re:Firefox FTW by LameAssTheMity · · Score: 1
      I've been using IE tab for as long as I can remember, but thanks anyways.

      I figured it out on my own, I had to opt in to the beta. I only just found this email, it got buried under politikal spam.

  3. "Movie Selection is Limited"? by TiberSeptm · · Score: 5, Informative

    It doesn't seem to differ from the normal instant watch selection. Obviously that selection is limited in that it does not encompass the entire Netflix library- that would be infeasible regardless of the player being used.
    As far as I can tell, the beta allows access to the full instant watch selection that IE users would see. The player loads and buffers much quicker than the player in IE7- allowing for much faster skipping forwards and backwards on the old P-IV in my living room. The performance difference is fairly pronounced on my relatively new laptop. Under Firefox it is consistently 15 seconds from clicking "play" while browsing instant-watch to the actual start of the video. In IE7 it will take between 30 seconds 45 seconds. Video quality is indistinguishable in terms of clarity, but I noticed much less stuttering in the silverlight player.
    On the old pentium IV machine in my livingroom, the time to play drops from about 1 minute to 25 seconds. While this is half the time, it was never a big deal when compared to the convenience. What is a big deal is the impressive drop in stuttering compared to the player in IE7. On my dinosaur of a living room computer, the video for all netflix movies would stutter every few seconds or so until the movie was fully buffered. In the silverlight player, there is no noticeable stuttering.
    I did this totally subjective, non-scientific, arbitrary, and slightly drunk comparison on the following two machines:


    Older-than-dirt desktop-
    -2.4 GHz Pentium IV
    -1GB DDR 333 RAM
    -Windows XP Home SP3
    -Ati Radeon 9800 Pro (256MB VRAM)

    Slightly Newer Laptop-
    -2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo
    -2GB DDR2 RAM
    -Windows XP Pro SP3
    -Ati Radeon Mobility x1400 (god awful)

    1. Re:"Movie Selection is Limited"? by TheStonepedo · · Score: 1

      Dirt is at least twice as old as a Pentium 4. Come back when you have 286 results.

      --
      I'll be your candy shop of infinite deliciousity if you'll be my discotheque of endless rump-shaking.
    2. Re:"Movie Selection is Limited"? by jfengel · · Score: 1

      It doesn't seem to differ from the normal instant watch selection. Obviously that selection is limited in that it does not encompass the entire Netflix library- that would be infeasible regardless of the player being used.

      It doesn't even come close. Of the 100+ films in my (admittedly nonrepresentative) queue, only 4 are available for instant play.

      A lot of studios are clearly waiting for something, but I can't imagine what. All of your films end up on BitTorrent, whether you make them available for online play or not.

      I understand it taking time to get the back catalog ready, but they're not rushing to get the new stuff out, either. Perhaps they just haven't been offered the deal they want.

    3. Re:"Movie Selection is Limited"? by rmadmin · · Score: 1

      You've got something wrong with your P4 then. My main machine is an Athlon 1.8Ghz with 1G ram and a Geforce Ti3@1680x1050... and I get no stuttering problems at all. Infact, I've never had a problem running netflix on here.

    4. Re:"Movie Selection is Limited"? by TiberSeptm · · Score: 1

      Your Athlon performs better than a 3.0ghz P4 in most benchmarks- particularly streaming. Perhaps you forget how bad the old net burst architecture was. Also, yours is likely an X2 (dual core) while the pentium 4 I have is not. It's not even hyperthreading (not that that actually helped.)

    5. Re:"Movie Selection is Limited"? by TiberSeptm · · Score: 1

      I was thinking I'd pull out my Tandy TSR-80 if I really wanted to suffer.

    6. Re:"Movie Selection is Limited"? by rmadmin · · Score: 1

      Mine is single core. Probably time to upgrade. =)

    7. Re:"Movie Selection is Limited"? by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      My Tandy MC-10 is laughing at your puny attempts of suffering.

    8. Re:"Movie Selection is Limited"? by jordan314 · · Score: 1

      Just tried it with my mac and it's working fine! Hurray! I know people are up in arms about the DRM but I'm just happy to be able to do on my mac what my PC has been able to do for over a year. Now I can stream movies in bed! Woo! As for the beta, it plays fine and the fullscreen viewer is decent. I had problems with Beetlejuice ('there is an error with this movie, please contact support'), but others worked perfectly.

  4. impressive by timmarhy · · Score: 1

    say what you want but if you've used silver light it's actually a pretty impressive platform. my only beef is it's download size vs flash. flash is what, 800kb? silver light is 8megs. not really a huge deal i guess but a bit of a wtf considering they do the same thing.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    1. Re:impressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't say which version of Silverlight that you downloaded but if it is the newest version (2.0) then it includes a subset of the .Net framework. Microsoft's intent is that users will be able to run Silverlight apps without having to have a full install of the framework.

  5. Still not open availability? by XaXXon · · Score: 1

    This was somewhere (digg?) a couple days ago and it was in limited release to new users only. I still can't use it:

    Our apologies -- instant watching is currently not supported for Macintosh.

    We are working on a solution for Mac users and expect to have it available by the end of 2008.

    1. Re:Still not open availability? by rale,+the · · Score: 3, Informative
  6. Re:hilarious by dotancohen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And they only pretty much did it because they found out it works easily with Silverlight in Intel based macs only.

    Amazing that a company is switching _to_ Silverlight for a cross-platform solution. This is wrong on so many levels.

    http://dotancohen.com/heb/wallashops.html

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  7. ...until it's cracked/broken by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    Which will happen.

    --
    No sig today...
  8. Re:hilarious by beelsebob · · Score: 1

    Hah, specialised -- that's right, the platform that can run all Mac software, pretty much all linux/unix software, and all windows software (virtualised, but hey, it's running it). That's specialized! Wait, no, it's not at all.

  9. Comparing IE7 and Silverlight players, cont. by TiberSeptm · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sadly, I titled the first post really poorly. After playing around with the "beta" player on a couple machines for a little while longer I found a few other things worth noting.

    The Silverlight player does not require nearly as much free space as the IE7/WMP player for the "high quality" video to play. I've checked and the library is the same as that availible for the PC as far as the 182 items in my instant queue go.

    While that doesn't cover the thousands upon thousands of items they stream, it does cover a wide range of properties. So far as I can tell, the Starz! content, the CBS current series content, the NBC current series content, and all the showtime content is still there. Other than that, well who cares if "Santa Clause Conquers the Martians" isn't availible in Firefox. Oh wait, it looks like it is.

  10. Not open? by TiberSeptm · · Score: 1

    Odd, I've been a Netflix user for about 2 years and my roommate has it running on his Mac right now. I'd call their customer service and ask. Did you follow the link in the CNet article? Do you have silverlight installed?

  11. Fail. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I'm a huge fan of Netflix's DVD rental. I'm on the 8-at-a-time plan and with the exception of the attempt to drop profiles, they've never given me anything other than fantastic service. When it comes to this watch instantly stuff they completely fail, though.

    1. Selection is horrid. Even where they have quality content, it's something like season 2 of some TV series, with season 1 nowhere to be found. If they are going to use DRM, I expect some quality content. Otherwise, I'm fine with It's a Wonderful Life. No need for Titillating Monster/Sci-Fi Movie Du Jour, thanks.

    2. They've gone from Windows only to Silverlight only. That's great for my media box, which runs Myth. Linux may be a minority on the desktop, but is it really so among media boxes?

    3. I have a huge amount of bandwidth, am just a few hops away, and they stream me a postage stamp.

    1. Re:Fail. by Yold · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Watch Instantly has progressively gotten better. You should check out the new Starz Play selection. There are some quality titles. I'm actually watching Natural Born Killers right now on my 32inch 720p, fullscreen is approximately the quality of a 1 gig XVID. Certainly not DVD quality... more like a VHS.

      Now if only they'd add more Crime Documentaries... (COPS anyone?)

      I've also heard rumors that NetFlix watch instantly is coming to XBOX 360... so the move to silverlight is less than suprising.

    2. Re:Fail. by TiberSeptm · · Score: 1

      Yeah sorry, I was replying to the post above but clicked on the reply to article button instead of the reply to post one.

    3. Re:Fail. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      1. Selection is horrid.

      Now that Mac users are onboard, Brokeback Mountain is being made available ASAP.

    4. Re:Fail. by coryking · · Score: 1

      That's great for my media box, which runs Myth.

      Well, get the Moonlight guys on it :-)

      Personally I forsee in the future all us PVR guys can embed both Flash and Silverlight apps that can be controlled with our remotes. I run SageTV, which runs Windows or Linux, and while it can already stream Youtube and Video Podcasts, I can't wait until somebody figures out a way to distribute the rest of the online video world like netflix or whatever does NBC's "The Office" stuff. Right now, you'd pretty much have to screen scrape and do magic with the results.

      Linux may be a minority on the desktop, but is it really so among media boxes?

      Only if you count embeded stuff like Tivo (or did they switch to FreeBSD like ;-). Dunno who wins in the homebrew PVR market. My guess is 40% Media Center, 25% MythTV, 20% SageTV, 15% other. If you take out the Media Center folk and just look at the geek market (SageTV is kind of both), I bet it is about 60/40 windows/linux.

    5. Re:Fail. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've also heard rumors that NetFlix watch instantly is coming to XBOX 360... so the move to silverlight is less than suprising.

      Not only is it coming to the 360 on November 19th, but they have also announced HD streaming. It is already on a few TV shows like Heroes, and 30 Rock. They announced 300 HD movies at launch, not many, but it's a start. HD streaming is currently exclusive to the 360, but I'm sure it will find it's way to the other outlets eventually.

  12. Re:hilarious by jo_ham · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Mac people, give it up already and either have a single purpose media editing Linux system for a hell of a lot less or just get a damn PC and stop making people occasionally write software for you.

    So can you please tell me where I can buy Linux versions of Final Cut Studio, Shake 4, Creative Suite CS, Flix Pro, Sound Studio, Toast, and Sony's XDCAM HD transfer apps please?

    Also, which distro will work seamlessly with this Linux version of FCS combined with a Decklink card and breakout box?

    To get back to "online apps" pretty much all of them work on my Mac. Only the ones who go out of their way to exclude Macs don't work, and those are getting fewer and fewer as time goes on.

    Also, does that 99% of software include viruses, keyloggers and other malware? They are technically software and they only run on Windows, so if it does, then I could see the 99% figure being accurate.

  13. Awesome by trawg · · Score: 2

    Another annoying, proprietary bullshit extension I'm going to need to watch video in my browser that people are going to end up building entire websites in.

    1. Re:Awesome by powerspike · · Score: 2, Funny

      ya it'll be great when they port all the codec's over to run in javascript realtime....

    2. Re:Awesome by trawg · · Score: 1

      If Mozilla and webkit and co keep improving the performance of Javascript this might be a real option soon :)

    3. Re:Awesome by powerspike · · Score: 1

      but then the real problem will kick in, they won't be able to protect their source code, so they'll never release it. If they can't make a profit (no matter the size) and protect their assets, they won't do it.

    4. Re:Awesome by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Informative

      There are video CODECs written in Smalltalk running on Squeak. I was at a presentation by Alan Kay a couple of years ago where he gave the entire presentation from within Squeak, including video. Squeak isn't a particularly fast implementation of Smalltalk - it's a bytecode interpreter with no JIT capabilities. A modern JavaScript environment should be faster.

      The main reason JavaScript would be slow for writing a video CODEC is that it only has one kind of numerical object, a double-precision float. Implementations try to work around this, but it's not always possible.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    5. Re:Awesome by trawg · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yep. This is why i'm hanging out for HTML's video tag and the Theora/Ogg online revolution!

  14. Re:hilarious by Yold · · Score: 4, Informative

    I don't think it is NetFlix's choice to adopt Silverlight. They released a press release to their Mac users before, stating that it is the movie companies (probably MPAA) stipulated which DRM they can use. But, true to their word, they finally are opening Watch Instantly to Mac users. Lets hope that the Linux port of Silverlight gets thrown in the mix too.

    I know Microsoft products are unpopular, but sadly, the adage "No one ever got fired for buying (trusting) Microsoft" probably applies here.

  15. goddamnit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    As if I wasn't ADD already. Now they just h

  16. Re:hilarious by RCL · · Score: 3, Informative

    Shake has always been available for Linux - in fact, it has been ported to MacOS/Windows from that OS. Shake 4 for Linux is sold for $4999 right now.

    Besides, have you heard about Autodesk Smoke? That's a complete Linux-based online video editing suite.

  17. Re:hilarious by dotancohen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I know Microsoft products are unpopular, but sadly, the adage "No one ever got fired for buying (trusting) Microsoft" probably applies here.

    I counter with no one has ever been prosecuted for using Linux.

    Enough with the IBM || Microsoft half-truths.

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  18. Re:hilarious by dotancohen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, you would probably be interested to learn that for example imeem is written in C# to be able to run it on both Windows and Linux. Silverlight in my, albeit biased, opinion, is much cleaner and neater than flash. Or WM solution for this case, obviously... MS has too much stigma for what it USED TO do, or what it still does but to significantly lesser extent

    I don't see how the imeem reference is relevant. What am I missing?

    While I won't go into the pros and cons of Flash, in comparison Silverlight currently runs on less platforms, has lower market market share on the platforms that it does run on, and has no superior DRM model. You can add to that your personal feelings about Microsoft and Adobe.

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  19. DRM Free Alternative to Netfix by fluch · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I guess we all know it: https://thepiratebay.org/ And it doesn't require any Silverlight.

  20. Re:hilarious by polywaffle · · Score: 1

    It might be because silverlight is already compaitble with all their drm wmv files, not to mention to most companies, Apple and Windows are the most important two platforms.

  21. People will pay Netflix for the convenience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    When you come home from the pub at night after a few beers you don't want to wait for BitTorrent, you want it NOW!

    If they can get it working on Xbox instead of PCs they could even have a hit on their hands.

    1. Re:People will pay Netflix for the convenience by jcuervo · · Score: 4, Funny

      When you come home from the pub at night after a few beers you don't want to wait for BitTorrent, you want it NOW!

      After a few beers, I'm streaming a whole different kind of torrent.

      --
      Assume I was drunk when I posted this.
    2. Re:People will pay Netflix for the convenience by rdnetto · · Score: 1

      1) If it's new, some torrents are *really* fast - as in ~15 minutes fast (assuming your connection is fast enough).

      2) What makes you think that people won't think ahead and set it to download before they leave? I think that anyone smart enough to use BT would be be able to do that much

      --
      Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
    3. Re:People will pay Netflix for the convenience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's an older torrent, starting it out before leaving isn't going to do much good. The latest cam might have good speeds, but older 'good' movies usually take a day or more.

  22. Reason #1 this is useless to me by hansoloaf · · Score: 2, Informative
    From Netflix help section:

    Can I see subtitles or closed captions while watching movies instantly on my PC?
    A:
    Foreign-language movies watched instantly on your PC will have subtitles. We don't currently provide Closed Captioning, nor subtitling of English language movies, but you'll find those on most of our DVDs.

    arrghh

    1. Re:Reason #1 this is useless to me by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      What, no pirate subtitles???

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    2. Re:Reason #1 this is useless to me by hansoloaf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I do like foreign films. I do like domestic films as well. And yes I'm deaf. Very little videos on the net (hulu, itunes, netflix, etc) are captioned so it's frustrating to see all the cool technology. Yet it all remains inaccessible to people like me.

    3. Re:Reason #1 this is useless to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does anyone know why this is?

      I can see why they might be reluctant to offer multiple versions with hard subtitles, but could it really be that difficult at this point to develop a player that handles soft subtitles well (which would theoretically also be protected by the DRM)? Soft subtitles shouldn't take up that much extra space, whereas I'd imagine that hard subtitle overlays would chew up additional bandwidth.

      Or is the problem getting the subtitles/captions in the first place? (Getting them from the distributor? Extracting them from the DVD? Too expensive a process?)

    4. Re:Reason #1 this is useless to me by Bob+of+Dole · · Score: 1

      Hey, the whole point of this digital revolution is to fuck the deaf.

      Look, physical media is going away. Your two choices are this crap or pirated rips. Do you think either of them will provide subs? Fat chance!

    5. Re:Reason #1 this is useless to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This, I'm afraid, is one of the consistently ongoing shortcomings of multimedia on the internet. There's a jillion formats, limited interoperability, and tons of missing or misimplemented features, like closed captioning. Naturally these things do require some planning, cooperation, and foresight, but it's taking a frustratingly long time for them to come out.

      And don't even get me started on the creation of yet another video medium. I've got four different media players on my PC, several additional codec packages (which never seem to be available as mere codec packages, but distributed as programs...grr), and I still regularly run into files, even in common package formats like asf, avi, or mov that won't play unless I go dig up yet another codec.

    6. Re:Reason #1 this is useless to me by Vegeta99 · · Score: 1

      Can I turn the damn subtitles off?

      Seriously. I've downloaded Spanish movies before subtitled in English, but it was transposed into the video stream and not separate. Hence, I can't turn it on and off when I want to, which kinda defeats the purpose. I'm learning Spanish.

    7. Re:Reason #1 this is useless to me by elex · · Score: 1

      I've downloaded several movies that have audio language options and subtitles. Adding subs to the Netflix/Silverlight player will be no problem once they are extracted from the films. I'm sure about this. I bet the foreign ones are rasterized onto the video stream, for now. But when they work out a way to get the text off of the DVD, or have it otherwise delivered to them, subtitles will become an option.

  23. Silverlight?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, that's a great solution to an incompatible horse-and-buggy problem. Let's switch to a donkey-and-buggy!

  24. Re:hilarious by dotancohen · · Score: 1

    It might be because silverlight is already compaitble with all their drm wmv files, not to mention to most companies, Apple and Windows are the most important two platforms.

    Obviously those are considerations. Too bad these short-terms goals won out against the longer term goal of true platform independence, rather than "currently works on the platforms we currently want to support".

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  25. Re:hilarious by The+Ultimate+Fartkno · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Does Shake for Linux get delivered by a naked Natalie Portman or come in a solid gold box or something? The OSX version is $499, and a look around the Apple site doesn't mention why the Linux version is for some reason worth an extra $4,500.

  26. Re:hilarious by jo_ham · · Score: 1

    Aye, it was originally a Linux app in fact, before Apple got hold of it - since the release of Shake 4 though, Apple have been "discouraging" the use of Shake on Linux though, with a huge price cut on the OS X version, and unlimited render licences.

  27. Re:hilarious by jo_ham · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Both versions, up to Shake 3.0 were $4,999, and originally Shake was a Linux app (hence the very different interface of the OS X version compared to even the esoteric Final Cut Studio apps).

    With the release of Shake 4 though, Apple cut the cost of the OS X version to $499, and provided unlimited render licences for that version, while keeping the cost and licence restrictions on the Linux version to "encourage" people to use the OS X version.

    They know they can't kill the Linux version off entirely, due to the number of hih end effects houses who are quite happy to have a mixed Linux/Mac environment and don;t want to change out their Shake boxes for Mac Pros, but they want anyone who wants to start up in the field to go all-Mac.

    It all may be academic though, since there are whispers of a from-the-ground-up app to replace Shake at some point from inside Apple, to either go alongside Motion, or to replace that too.

  28. Re:hilarious by aplusjimages · · Score: 1

    Or just get an Xbox 360 and stream the movies from Netflix come November 19th. That way they have a gaming machine and a netflix machine rolled into one.

    --
    Can I bum a sig?
  29. Re:hilarious by damnbunni · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Except that Xbox 360s will only stream Netflix if you have a pay-per-month Xbox Live account.

    On top of your Netflix subscription.

    They sell standalone Netflix streaming boxes for about $100. With no extra monthly fee.

  30. Re:hilarious by aplusjimages · · Score: 1

    Xbox live subscription is $50 for 13months. I guess that standalone box will pay for itself in 2 years, but it can't play Gears of War 2.

    --
    Can I bum a sig?
  31. Re:hilarious by poetmatt · · Score: 1

    I thought this exactly too, its like "hi, we're not going to lock you into windows media player anymore, but we're still going to lock you completely into proprietary windows. whoops!"

  32. Re:It works well - NOT by Shados · · Score: 1

    Well, considering its officially stated not to be supported on Power PC, what do you expect exactly? What are you going to try next? Install Mac software on a Windows machine?

  33. Re:It works well - NOT by TheStonepedo · · Score: 1

    The parent poster stated clearly that he or she was installing on an Intel-based mac. I didn't even have to RTFA to catch that part.

    --
    I'll be your candy shop of infinite deliciousity if you'll be my discotheque of endless rump-shaking.
  34. Re:hilarious by infaustus · · Score: 2, Funny

    That's because Linux users commit more serious crimes.

    --
    Frosty piss posts are worthless, GNAA posts are worthless and hurtful, but they are the least of this site's neuroses.
  35. Re:It works well - NOT by IL-CSIXTY4 · · Score: 1

    It crashes all the time in Safari for me too. Works great in Firefox.

  36. Re:hilarious by torstenvl · · Score: 1

    You know who ELSE never used Microsoft products? That's right...

  37. Re:hilarious by dotancohen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So can you please tell me where I can buy Linux versions of Final Cut Studio, Shake 4, Creative Suite CS, Flix Pro, Sound Studio, Toast, and Sony's XDCAM HD transfer apps please?

    I cannot believe that you got modded troll for that. It is true, there are not enough commercial apps available for Linux at the moment. What I wouldn't do for Solidworks on my Ubuntu box!

    For Creative Suite, write to these folks:
    http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/contact.html

    For Flix, write here:
    http://www.on2.com/index.php?373

    Write to these folks asking about Sound Studio for Linux:
    http://www.freeverse.com/support/

    This is the address for the people responsible for Toast:
    http://www.roxio.com/enu/company/contact.html

    And the infamous Sony:
    http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/corporate/contacts.asp

    Please, don't be shy and WRITE TO THEM! If we don't write and let them know that Linux is a viable OS with a strong user base, then they will never port their software to Linux.

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  38. Re:hilarious by Briareos · · Score: 1

    They know they can't kill the Linux version off entirely, due to the number of hih end effects houses who are quite happy to have a mixed Linux/Mac environment and don;t want to change out their Shake boxes for Mac Pros, but they want anyone who wants to start up in the field to go all-Mac.

    What, like they couldn't kill off the Windows version of Logic?

    I doubt it.

    --

    "I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole

  39. Morro Rock by WK2 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I did it at Morro Rock. It was the middle of the night, and my girlfriend kept getting scared every time a car turned around in the parking lot, because their headlights would shine on us for a split second. Good times.

    --
    Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
    1. Re:Morro Rock by TiberSeptm · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Haha, wow- I never expected my poorly worded sentence to spawn such a long list of amusing replies. There's something to be said for the misuse of the English language- unfortunately it's probably not said very well.

    2. Re:Morro Rock by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      Best part is when you do it near a road with guard rails, so every time a car goes by at night, the lights through the guard rails look like flashing police car headlights.

  40. Mac vs PC by DuctTape · · Score: 1

    I've watched instantly on both PC, the "original" MSIE version, and Mac with Silverlight. On the PC, it's very watchable, especially in full-screen, and this is on a 2GHz P4. On Silverlight on the Mac it's like watching YouTube: massive pixellation on fast cuts and pans, and pretty fuzzy borders otherwise. And this is on a 2.33 GHz Core 2 Duo MBP. Unless this is a result of it being beta or a Silverlight fault, I'd have to say that on a Mac it pretty well, to use a scientific term, sucks.

    DT

    --
    Is this thing on? Hello?
    1. Re:Mac vs PC by papasui · · Score: 1

      I'm using it in Camino right now to watch Superbad.. Looks pretty good to me, quality wise I wouldn't say it's DVD but it's definetly better than youtube.

    2. Re:Mac vs PC by David+Gerard · · Score: 1

      You mean, it fails to compete with free? Will it just drive users to BitTorrent the way NBC insisting on Silverlight for the Olympics did?

      --
      http://rocknerd.co.uk
    3. Re:Mac vs PC by prockcore · · Score: 1

      are they both playing at the same quality?

      For all we know the PC is at work on a fat pipe and the mac is at home on dialup.

      Is the mac playing at 4-star quality?

    4. Re:Mac vs PC by DuctTape · · Score: 1

      Both on the same pipe.

      DT

      --
      Is this thing on? Hello?
  41. How to use it on Linux by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    I've been watching Netflix on my Intel (mac) for months now. I just run VirtualBox with windows installed. Works great. Works with Linux too. Of course you have a valid Windows XP or vista Lic but given were talking about a payment service here, the small cost of obtaining any old windows lic if you don't already have one is not really an issue.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:How to use it on Linux by coolsnowmen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...Of course you have a valid Windows XP or vista Lic but given were talking about a payment service here, the small cost of obtaining any old windows lic if you don't already have one is not really an issue.

      You are wrong; that 'license' is exactly the issue. Why should I have to pay for, install, and maintain another OS, to use a video on-demand service that I already payfor? Is it because they were too lazy and stupid to implement it using an open standard? Or because the mpaa is forcing them too?

    2. Re:How to use it on Linux by coolsnowmen · · Score: 0, Troll

      Dear Troll,
          I'll bite.

      Why should you have to buy a computer to watch netflix on demand when you are already paying for it?

      False argument: I disagree with your premise.
      You pay for the data to be delivered to you over the internet. If you had the internet but no computer (for what ever reason) you could buy the dedicated netflix box. I already have the ability to transduce all open standard video-binary-data into a visual display. So your point, if you had one, would be moot.

      Why should you pay for an internet connection when you are already paying netflix

      Because all links in the chain must be satisfied. It is the needless disallowing of alternative instantiations that vexes me. If I don't have the internet, I could get it by mail. Which is how netflix started in the first place. If I didn't have a mailbox, I could get a P.O. Box.

      Why should you pay for a big screen to watch it on when you are already paying netflix for the DVDs?

      False implication, already discussed. I pay for the delivery in a usable form, what I do with that is up to me. Whether it be a monitor hooked up to a computer, or a TV hooked up to a dvdplayer shouldn't bother them in the least. And it doesn't.

      Why should you pay for a stove, to cook the hamburger you just bought?

      False argument: non-sequiter, parallel implantations exist and are not prevented.
      There are many ways I could cook a hamburger that exist and are not prevented due to incompetent vendor choices. I could use my grill, oven, stovetop, microwave, or hairdryer.

      Why should you pay for a furnace to heat your house after you already paid for utility?

      Argument is incomplete as you didn't specify what utility I paid for. If I paid for the general utility known as electricity, then I could heat my house by using any number of eletrical->thermal energy converters. If I paid for hotwater, I could run it though the furnace which came with the house, or take a hot shower.

      Next :-P

      I don't know why you are lashing out at me and telling me to age faster. You said that buying a windows license wasn't an issue. As a netflix member, I corrected you.

      As a netflix and non-windows user, I do not like being needlessly required to have a windows license to view something as common as a movie. It falls under that implication of the idea that MPAA believes us all to be criminals. I rent movies to avoid that branding. I like to watch movies, but I don't think movies I view once to be worth the 20$ it would take to buy them; so I rent them.

  42. Re:hilarious by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 1

    Or, you can get the PlayOn server for Windows (1x $30 fee) which can stream Netflix, Hulu & YouTube to your 360, PS3 and any other DLNA compliant device (such as XBMC). I'm using the free beta and it works really well!

  43. Re:hilarious by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

    Unless the user in question has no desire to play games. Initial Xbox 360 investment at $200 plus $50 per year is gonna come right out of the gate more expensive than a $100 purpose built set top box, and will only grow more expensive over time.

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  44. Moonlight? by AusIV · · Score: 1

    Anyone tried it on Moonlight? I've tried a few other Silverlight applications on Moonlight with varying degrees of success. I might consider restarting my Netflix subscription if Moonlight could play the "Watch Instantly" features.

    1. Re:Moonlight? by coolsnowmen · · Score: 1

      Except that the only moonlight installation I've seen (from http://www.go-mono.com/moonlight/index.aspx), explicitly says:

      "Note: These are currently built without multimedia support. No video or mp3 playback is enabled on these binaries."

      I know what that means, but I don't know why. Is it legal or technical?

    2. Re:Moonlight? by grimm26 · · Score: 1

      "These builds do not include media codecs (video or audio), for that, you must currently build Moonlight from source code." Build it yourself and you can link against whatever codecs tickle your fancy.

  45. Will it help, though? by David+Gerard · · Score: 1

    This is obviously quite the coup for Microsoft and the Silverlight platform, which has up to now been a "nobody cares" platform. The main effect of their previous big user, NBC for the Olympics, was to drive people to BitTorrent.

    I fully understand that NetFlix wouldn't be allowed to make Hollywood movies available without some sort of DRM. But do they remember they're competing not with DVDs by mail or DVD rental, but with unlocked BitTorrent downloads?

    How usable is NetFlix via Silverlight? Does the DRM have little enough pain-in-the-butt factor to compete with free?

    --
    http://rocknerd.co.uk
  46. Opera works as well... by bigbigbison · · Score: 1

    I couldn't get Silverlight to install in Firefox for some reason so I tried Opera. If you tell it to identify as Firefox then you can use watch instantly with Opera.

    --
    http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
  47. Does this mean I actually use it on windows now? by Shaitan+Apistos · · Score: 1

    The DRM on the Windows Media Player plugin for Netflix doesn't work because my monitor is too big. I shit you not. It took a lot off googling to figure out the problem, but the player won't play when I have my 24" widescreen hooked up, but will with my 19".

    Does the silverlight plugin have this same restriction? Either way it'll be nice that I can play these on my Macbook Pro now.

  48. Re:It works well - NOT by Shados · · Score: 1

    Thats what I get for replying to a post when I just woke up... I had reread it like 5 times originally, and saw "power pc" everytime in the grandparent's post.

    All I can say right now is... whoops.

  49. Re:It works well - NOT by Shados · · Score: 1

    Ignore my other post, since it seems like I can't read in the morning. That said, do you have Adblock installed?

  50. Reasons to hate Silverlight? by jgs · · Score: 1

    Every time I see a mention of Silverlight, it's followed shortly thereafter by a stream of comments of the form "Silverlight sux0rz". However, none of the ones I've skimmed have given any particular reasons.

    I'm curious as to specific reasons why I should avoid installing the Silverlight plug-in on my Mac. I'm already aware of (and sympathetic to) the "DRM is fundamentally evil" argument; I'm looking for other reasons beyond that (and its companion "Microsoft is evil").

    1. Re:Reasons to hate Silverlight? by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Problems with Firefox, DRM, not cross platform, relys heavily on Microsoft technologies (directX). How would you like to see everyone building everything that you see in Flash except suddenly it requires a directX driver to load? Well being on a mac, you can't load it becaue directx is only for Windows.

      It's another lockin application; they reel ou away from flash and lock you in to Windows.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    2. Re:Reasons to hate Silverlight? by jgs · · Score: 1

      Thanks, but I think these (modulo the "problems with Firefox" item) basically come under the "DRM is bad" and "Microsoft is bad" umbrella, at least to my way of thinking. I guess I should have added that I'm not really looking for reasons having to do with business practices or philosophy. I don't mean to trivialize the importance of such things, but they're just not what I'm looking to discuss right now -- I understand these arguments well already. What I'm looking for are specific technical reasons not to like Silverlight. Examples of such reasons might be "it makes your Mac less stable," "it interferes with Flash playback" or "it phones home with your personal information". (Evidence is always a plus of course.)

      Can you say more about "problems with Firefox"?

    3. Re:Reasons to hate Silverlight? by Serious+Callers+Only · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you trust Microsoft not to screw you over, there is no reason to avoid Silverlight. There is no reason to hate Silverlight (the tech) at all, however some might take issue with the strategic purpose of it (which can be *very* important to you as a user).

      Personally I think it's an embrace, extend and extinguish move much like IE was in its time - when it becomes prevalent enough, the windows version will get more features and the mac/linux version be left to wither. For the full experience you'll be expected to go all Microsoft, all the time (see Office suite, Active-X, IE, PFS, Zune etc). Balmer loves that kind of move, and he's in charge now.

      If you haven't learned that this is their SOP, by all means go ahead and use it, as you will learn a valuable lesson.

    4. Re:Reasons to hate Silverlight? by Foofoobar · · Score: 3, Informative

      Cross platform compatibility should rank high. When apple laptop sales are over 40% on campuses and over 33% in the overall market, you are guaranteed that apple will be in your business. Linux is ALREADY in your business if you have sys admins or developers. Silverlight relies on Microsoft products that are not available to these platforms. Your mac will not be able to play alot of data that Slverlight uses. You are at the mercy of a company that is not releasing all their codecs, apis that Silverlight uses.

      Flash on the otherhand is much more open.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    5. Re:Reasons to hate Silverlight? by jgs · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I take your point. On the other hand, I don't see the individual Mac (or Linux, etc) user having a whole lot of leverage in this situation. Up until now with Netflix's streaming video, the Windows version hasn't merely had "more features" but rather all the features since Macs haven't been supported at all. And since streaming video is not the primary reason I (or I'd venture to guess most people) subscribe to Netflix, I'm not about to fire Netflix over this lack... which means they're not particularly motivated to fix it.

      The counter-argument is that clearly Netflix must perceive some benefit from having their subscribers stream video, else they wouldn't be offering the service at all. But the question as I see it is whether my refusal (and that of some other subset of Mac using Netflix subscribers) to adopt Silverlight and thus the streaming service would make enough of a dent in their overall business strategy to warrant a change in the technology they've adopted. My guess is that it wouldn't.

      So I'm not quite sure what the "valuable lesson" is that I'm expected to learn. That I as an individual have very little leverage over ginormous corporations? And that they want to screw me? I learned those ones a long time ago.

      Darn, I said I didn't want to discuss business strategies. Oh well.

    6. Re:Reasons to hate Silverlight? by jgs · · Score: 1

      That sounds like a good reason not to select Silverlight if I wanted to deliver some kind of media myself. But I'm looking at this from the perspective of a consumer -- specifically, of a (prospective) user of Netflix's streaming video. Silverlight is already "cross platform" at least to the extent of being supported on Macs as well as Windows, else we wouldn't be having this conversation. Beyond that, why should I, from my narrow perspective, care about how cross platform it is if all I want to do is watch a video? As long as that data type is supported on my platform, the naive analysis says that's all I need.

      At the moment the choice for watching Netflix streaming video isn't between Silverlight and Flash (or pick your technology). It's between Silverlight and not watching.

    7. Re:Reasons to hate Silverlight? by Serious+Callers+Only · · Score: 1

      So I'm not quite sure what the "valuable lesson" is that I'm expected to learn.

      Just that you can be caught out by your choices of technology and a naive trust in (or disregard for) the motives of producers. If you start using the service from Netflix, then in a few years are forced to switch to Windows to continue your subscription for example, or if you save all your documents in word format on your mac, then in five years are forced to switch to Windows to keep reading them properly, you might find a lesson in that.

      That I as an individual have very little leverage over ginormous corporations? And that they want to screw me? I learned those ones a long time ago.

      Well, given your disregard for the intentions of MS re. Silverlight, apparently not : )

      As you say, you don't have a lot of leverage on your own, however if enough people refuse to be duped by plays like Silverlight or Apple's FairPlay lock-in, then vendors will have to offer open solutions which mean they can't force you to buy other unrelated products just to (for example) watch videos on Netflix. The web has opened up many options in that respect, and Silverlight is part of an effort to control that - to collect a vig on every transaction.

      But this is a tired old argument, and you say you have heard it all before, so I won't pester you more with it. I do think it is important to remember that you can't avoid business strategies, just as you can't avoid politics....

    8. Re:Reasons to hate Silverlight? by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Thats also a reason not to use it if getting media STREAMED (as well as streaming video as you pointed out). At any time that media can rely upon proprietary apis or codecs and can switch at the whim of the developers. This is never the case with Flash. Flash will not require WMV or DirectX to view your media; it can TIE to additional programs that will require them but it will not require it itself which Silverlight can and will.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
  51. netflix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When they support linux , Then I'll rejoice

  52. Re:hilarious by thornomad · · Score: 1

    Hard to get excited when I still can't watch it on my mac (PowerPC) just as it was with the Olympics.

  53. Re:hilarious by calmofthestorm · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hitler?

    --
    93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
  54. Re:Ski into a spruce! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think it's high time Slashdot added the ability to do "score:-1, goatse".

  55. now if only we can get this on Apple TV.. by koutbo6 · · Score: 1

    I think its a great match

    --
    You speak London? I speak London very best.
  56. No opt out by seanmeister · · Score: 1

    You can't opt back out of the beta once you opt in, so caveat emptor. I learned this the hard way after I found out that the Silverlight player doesn't seem to utilize the full-screen video overlay when playing over s-video from my laptop.

  57. Sure, it's silverlight...BUT by Ambiguous+Coward · · Score: 1

    All the Silverlight griping aside, I am already watching Dr. Who season 1 on my macbook, and it makes me quite happy. :D

    -G

    --
    Their may be a grammatical error, misspeling, or evn a typo in this post.
  58. Good & Bad by tji · · Score: 1

    It's nice to have the option for more content on my Mac Mini HTPC. I primarily use it for Broadcast HDTV via MythTV and DVDs from Netflix. So, this give a whole new source of content.

    I have been using it for a few days, with mixed results.

    - The quality is not great, and can vary widely. It seems to adapt to your internet connection speed. So, I think my Comcast "Burst then throttle" service screws it up. I often get the message saying needs to re-buffer.

    - It's completely browser based. So, no integration with MythTV or FrontRow. No remote control, etc. I hope even the browser based version can be improved (e.g. flexible bookmarking).

    I watched a documentary on it, Street Fight, and while the quality was not great (viewing on a 720p projector) for a documentary this was not a big problem. I also watched Tin Cup, and found it to be acceptable. But, I tried a couple movies with more action, and found the compression breaks down under a lot of movement.

  59. Re:hilarious by dotancohen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hard to get excited when I still can't watch it on my mac (PowerPC) just as it was with the Olympics.

    Don't get exited, then. Instead, write to Netflix and let them know that you, and the millions of other Ubuntu, PowerPC, Fedora, and other non-Windows || Intel Mac _still_ cannot use their service. Let them know that they need a cross-platform solution, not a pick-and-choose platform solution. Here is their address:
    http://www.netflix.com/ContactUs

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  60. I switched to Mac for a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    And it was to get away from Microsoft.

  61. Re:hilarious by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

    Except that Xbox 360s will only stream Netflix if you have a pay-per-month Xbox Live account.

    On top of your Netflix subscription.

    They sell standalone Netflix streaming boxes for about $100. With no extra monthly fee.

    Damnit, I hate Xbox Live. It feels like you are paying for Steam. So no chance for Netflix on my Xbox if I'm already a Netflix subscriber but not an Xbox Live subscriber?

    --
    Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
  62. Re:hilarious by jo_ham · · Score: 1

    Heh, don't hold your breath on the Sony one - even the Mac version of the software for pulling XDCAM HD clips down off a PD Deck is a bit ropey. It got a lot better with the latest release, but it took them long enough - and that was when they were working hard to increase XDCAM uptake in the industry as a cost effective migration path for HD (alongside HDCAM). you'd think they'd want to make it as attractive as possible for FCS users on the Mac to use the new format.

    While the app did work, it was very kludgy, and didn't support some of the much-vaunted metadata features of the format, and you couldn't even name the clips on the disc prior to moving them to your drive! You can now, with the new version, but it took them a while to come out with it.

  63. Quality of Silverlight vs hardware? by tji · · Score: 1

    I have been trying the Mac/Silverlight version, and found the quality to be a bit lacking.

    I had been considering buying one of the LG Blueray DVD players, in large part because it supports Netflix streaming.

    Has anyone compared both viewing methods? Can I expect better quality via the hardware decoder (LG player or Netflix's Roku box)?

    1. Re:Quality of Silverlight vs hardware? by tele_player · · Score: 1

      I tried the Silverlight beta on my 2.0 Ghz Core2Duo Macbook this morning. Quality was pretty bad, Activity Monitor showed it was streaming at something like 500 Kbits. My Netflix Roku box consistently streams at 'highest quality', which is about 2.2Mbits, and is generally quite acceptable on a 40" 1080P LCD. Both the Roku and my Mac are connected over 802.11g to a Linksys router on a 6Mbit ADSL. I'm quite happy with the Netflix Roku player, and though the selection isn't all the latest, I haven't run out of things that I enjoy. They have ALL of Red Dwarf, and all of Xena, Warrior Princess. When I want the newer stuff, I have Netflix send the DVD or BD. I'll be removing the Silverlight plugin, I'm no fan of MS.

  64. Re:hilarious by Yold · · Score: 1

    while it is an interesting article, I fail to see how your post is relevant to my post and TFA... am I missing something?

  65. Re:hilarious by dotancohen · · Score: 1

    Don't worry, I'm not holding my breath. I'm just not buying Sony until it works. I vote with my pocketbook.

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  66. Re:hilarious by thornomad · · Score: 1

    Yea - I did. I also asked that they support closed captions and/or subtitles on their view instantly streams and have encouraged others to do the same.

  67. The real question is...what about CANADA? by sitkill · · Score: 1

    Can I get it in Canada yet? Or is the border stopping the internets from coming over here still?

  68. Re:hilarious by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

    But, true to their word, they finally are opening Watch Instantly to Mac users.

    Correction: They're finally opening it up to some Mac users. This solution is for intel Macs only. That's fine if you're assuming people want to use it to see the occasional flick on their laptop, but a fail for those users who have an older Mac as a media center, since a lot of those are old PPC systems.

    I have two thoughts about this. First, Netflix should have gone with Flash video which is already in use by sites like Hulu so any DRM issues are bunk. Second, Netflix's selection of movies for live viewing is so poor, anything else they do is pretty much pointless. Right now only 14% of the movies in my queue are available for instant viewing and most of those are really bad old movies just there for bad movie and beer nights.

  69. Re:hilarious by y86 · · Score: 1

    This is wrong on so many levels.

    What's really wrong is the level of content available. This service has less movies than TNT on the weekend.

    I tried this a few months ago and was very disappointed.

    So now you can watch 100 old movies on a MAC....

  70. So... by dmsuperman · · Score: 1

    So, how long until we can get this going on linux? I'm tired of using a virtual machine to watch my movies.

    --
    :(){ :|:& };: Go!
  71. Re:hilarious by mweather · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But Hitler did use IBM products.

  72. Re:hilarious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And yet, for the many, many people that already have a 360 (paying for the monthly fee already), and have netflix, it's like a little bonus. We don't have to pay $100 for a Netflix streaming box. By the way, the 360 does a lot more than streaming. Also, streaming to the 360 is likely to get Netflix quite a few new subscribers.

  73. Re:hilarious by Deagol · · Score: 1

    I, too, was less than impressed with the online offerings a few short months ago. However, they're really ramping up the content these days. I assume it's to feed those "watch instantly" TV-boxes they're pushing now. You can't sell a movie device without current content. That said, there are new shows and movies popping up every day in the watch instantly section, many from 2007 and 2008. One of my gripes is that they have many later seasons of current shows, but don't have earlier seasons. I was eager to check out Numbers, but they don't have the first season few seasons. WTF?!?

    At any rate, I wish there was a way to rip the DRM out of those movies. I already download the movies on my FreeBSD box -- my connection is too slow to watch the high-quality movies on-demand, so I batch-download movies/shows overnight and watch the next day. I wish I didn't need to copy them over the the family Windows PC in order to watch them. Even then, I hate not being able to watch them if the internet connection flakes out and I can't contact the DRM/license servers (happens -- crappy rural DSL). It's not like I'd pirate the damned movies -- if I wanted to do that, I'd queue up the physical DVD and rip them, menus and all (which I do anyways to speed up getting DVDs back into the mail). The DRM, as usual, inhibits convenient playback by a paying customer. Lame.

  74. Sorry app rejected. by f0dder · · Score: 1

    Competes with existing Apple product.

    1. Re:Sorry app rejected. by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Apple has something similar to Silverlight?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    2. Re:Sorry app rejected. by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      There is Quicktime sitting there, supporting everything including DRM.

      Of course, Apple/Adobe/Real won't bother bribing them with money or server stuff like MS does so the soon to be chapter 11 company chooses Silverlight.

      If a company at this mobile/linux/symbian/os x/cars/planes/set top box crazy age chooses SilverLight for this particular purpose, I would question their financial stability and future.

      The container and format has been already chosen. It is mp4/mpeg4 variants based on whatever platform/chip you are targeting. Vendor neutral standards won.It is only MS didn't get it. Even Real Networks understood it. (their new formats are based on mpeg4)

    3. Re:Sorry app rejected. by KGIII · · Score: 1

      QT does what Silverlight or Flash does? I'm not familiar with QT really but I don't know if you can use it to build interactive programs or sites like you can with Flash or Silverlight. Silverlight != video player. Silverlight > video player. I'm actually in favor of the idea of Silverlight. Flash needed the competition.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    4. Re:Sorry app rejected. by Ilgaz · · Score: 0

      You can do amazing things with Quicktime. Issue is, Apple doesn't show what you can do while running it themselves. Their feature usage in their own "Trailers" which is one of top sites for average users is plain pathetic. Poor thing became a "click on 10 mbit movie link to launch iTunes" site and the entire technology is used to pass link to iTunes.

      I am all for competition to Flash too but competition came from the worst company possible. They have no clue how things are actually done, why they are in desperate need to make a "quicktime component" for exporting, why their "So they will run Parallels to produce stuff" idea is so flawed.

      MS doesn't understand how media industry works. That is the root of problem. There is a reason why Adobe spares millions of hours and dollars to Mac OS X/ Universal development.

      I better show what makes MS so afraid of flash. Stuff like this: http://g.ho.st/ and people choosing Linux based things like Eee PC because they will get same media experience thanks to Flash plugin. Their "Lets bribe that IT manager to choose Windows Media" plan is horribly broken. They try again with Silverlight and claim multiplatform just because a Intel Mac only plugin is there.

    5. Re:Sorry app rejected. by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I think I agree entirely with most of what you said though there is a Linux alternative that works to some extent though they're continuing to work on it and given that XP outsells Linux 7:3 on the Eee PC I'd not be surprised to see them phase Linux out entirely.

      I have high hopes for Silverlight and, for the most part, Microsoft has been behaving nicely lately.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    6. Re:Sorry app rejected. by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      For example with Linux alternative they support, you can't watch those movies. They need DRM, complete pack of codecs to make it work.

      If they provided Universal OS X binary along with Linux 32bit/64bit clean binaries, I would say "They have changed, they really want to be player in media scene". Lets not forget they need Symbian S60 official client too just like Flash Lite. Nokia announced support but it won't cut it, Nokia promises, announces everything in their recent (needless) iPhone panic mode.

      They are racing with a company who produces things which open source, programmer prophets have no shame in using and openly saying they use.

  75. Re:hilarious by dotancohen · · Score: 1

    Great! It is feedback like that that makes projects improve.

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  76. Re:hilarious by dotancohen · · Score: 1

    The "no one was ever fired for buying IBM" line as applied to Microsoft is dangerous. I was pointing that out. Not that I'm not an anti-MS sheep or anything (typing on a Microsoft keyboard, though under Ubuntu) however a blanket statement that MS is somehow a safe harbor is far from the truth.

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  77. Re:hilarious by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

    I use Mediamall's PlayOn media software.

    http://www.themediamall.com/playon

    It sits on my Windows XP box and serves Netflix and Hulu to my Xbox 360, my PS3, and my PopcornHour box in the bedroom. It costs $30, and works like a god damn champ.

  78. Re:hilarious by Killer+Orca · · Score: 1

    Not that I work for Netflix, but in my instant queue, also at around 15% of total, there are actually some recent releases like We Own the Night. Since they inked a deal with Starz maybe more recent content will become available from other sources. Not that using Silverlight is a good way to go about it at all though.

  79. Re:hilarious by Killer+Orca · · Score: 1

    No, but if you also happen to have a Windows Media center PC or can "find" one, you can follow this guide http://lifehacker.com/396881/turn-your-xbox-360-into-a-streaming-netflix-player , pretty much the only other way I've heard of, besides boxee, for streaming.

  80. Re:hilarious by earlymon · · Score: 1

    If one were to be anti-MS, would that make them a sheep, or are anti-MS sheep a subset of anti-MS?

    --
    Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
  81. Too Late by stereopticon · · Score: 1

    I already canceled my NetFlix account. I just wasn't seeing the value-add of waiting for the disc to arrive in the mail, when I can get most movies I already want to watch immediately somewhere else (iTunes, drive to Movie Gallery, Amazon Unbox on my TiVo).

    I use Mac at home (I work on a Windows box all day at work, why would I put that in my house?) and I got tired of waiting for Netflix to get out from under Microsoft. Now it's clear they never will.

    On the other hand, I can't figure out why anyone would by a AppleTV either. TiVo works for my family just fine.

    Anyway. How many hours can/should a person spend sitting in front of a monitor (answer: all waking)?

    1. Re:Too Late by laffer1 · · Score: 1

      You buy an apple tv because you already have a collection of videos and audio in iTunes. One can argue about the cost of iTunes content, but then consider that you pay a monthly fee for tivo. An aggressive tivo user will do better with tivo, but a casual user will do better with apple tv provided the material they want is available.

  82. Arrr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A gig of RAM? My G4 ibook is out.

    1. Re:Arrr by argent · · Score: 1

      Your G4 is already out because it's not intel based.

  83. Re:Does this mean I actually use it on windows now by Genom · · Score: 1

    It seemed to work on my 24" iMac last night. Quality wasn't particularly good, but it did work, and seemed to have no issues running fullscreen.

  84. Re:hilarious by dotancohen · · Score: 1

    Anti-MS sheep are a subset of anti-MS people in general. There are those who think (RMS, Mark Shuttleworth) and sheep (Ubuntu mailing list subscribers).

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  85. Limited Selection Mac Only? by Golddess · · Score: 1

    Movie selection is somewhat limited.

    I don't understand, Mac users have a smaller selection of Watch Instantly movies than Windows users do?

    --
    "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
  86. Re:hilarious by earlymon · · Score: 1

    OK, many thanks. I've been following your train of thought in this thread and wanted that clarification.

    --
    Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
  87. Re:hilarious by The+Ultimate+Fartkno · · Score: 1

    Thanks for the info.

  88. Re:hilarious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I clicked around for a while there. I found a phone number, but nothing that lets you write to them...

  89. Re:hilarious by dotancohen · · Score: 1

    Maybe public relations? At the very least they could tell you who to contact. Update us with what they say.

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  90. Re:hilarious by spitzak · · Score: 1

    They did kill the Windows version of Shake. They did not kill the Linux version for a few reasons:

    1. Heavily used in render farms so it would kill their market if they did not support it (though that does not explain why they kept the GUI working).

    2. They see Linux not as a competitor but more as an ally in fighting Windows on the desktop.

    3. Worry about negative publicity.

  91. Not for all mac users... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is not for all mac users. You must have an Intel macintosh for for it to work. I have literally the last iMac made with the PowerPC chip, and it is still going strong. I have no plans to replace it, but I do now have plans to drop Netflix. Why pay for a service I can't use completely and that they're not willing to support?

  92. Re:hilarious by y86 · · Score: 1

    I might look again, thanks.

  93. Re:Does this mean I actually use it on windows now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DRM, it's for the consumer's own good.

  94. Security? by argent · · Score: 1

    Microsoft has over a decade's track record of giving short shift to security in favor of performance. Like Java, they are using components implemented in the interpreted code to implement the security model, rather than implement a guaranteed closed interpreter that has no mechanisms to do dangerous actions. The main difference is that Sun had a decent security track record - where they had security problems, they closed them completely - and took the course of sticking to compatibility and security over trying to stay on the bleeding edge in performance (and Microsoft took advantage of that to push their horridly risky ActiveX technology).

    I don't trust ANYTHING Microsoft does to be secure. They are still pushing "security theatre" solutions like UAC and the leaky sandbox around IE instead of breaking with inherently insecure APIs.

    People have claimed that they're going to be different this time. I've been hearing that for a decade, and it's never happened before. What's different this time?

  95. Re:hilarious by MadMidnightBomber · · Score: 1

    Notes?

    --
    "It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
  96. What's not published? by benwaggoner · · Score: 1

    What are you looking for in terms of API or codec info?

    Silverlight will be adopting H.264 in its next major version: http://on10.net/blogs/benwagg/H264-and-AAC-support-coming-in-Silverlight/

    The VC-1 codec is already a SMPTE spec: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VC-1

    The Silverlight Xaml vocabulary spec for Silverlight 2 was published in September: http://download.microsoft.com/download/0/A/6/0A6F7755-9AF5-448B-907D-13985ACCF53E/%5BMS-SLXV%5D.pdf

    1. Re:What's not published? by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      It's not the codec that they support, it's the codecs that the developer develops in that Microsoft has not RELEASED or the APIS that have not been released to Mac or Linux. Silverlight developers can write silverlight apps to hook into DirectX and other windows specifix apis and codecs that Macs and Linux cannot makes use of. Flash does not do this but hooks into applications that then will make use of them; this makes Flash more open than Silverlight and more friendly to cross platform devlopment.

      For all Microsoft's talk, this is just another bait and switch routine; bait developers with Silverlight and then switch consumers and developers of Silverlight to IIS, .NET and other Microsoft platforms.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
  97. Re:hilarious by mweather · · Score: 1

    Punch card computing. They fed data about prisoners into the computers to see who went to jail, who went to work camps and who went to death camps. IBM calculated the Holocaust.