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#36
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Why has parent been modded to 5 Insightful? The sony hating has turned into blindnes. I can never recall people having the following conversation (WITH CD-ROMs around)

Average consumer: "WTF is a DVD" Answer: "It lets you watch whole movies on a single disk" Average consumer: "Is there an EVD?"

Also... HD-DVD is misleading, the HD-DVD disk may be used to store non HD information, eg a game disk = consumer confusion. So rather, it is HD-DVD which is more misleading than Blu Ray. As Blu-Ray does have a blue ray, as to speak.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=76 6588/ shows the released titles on Blu Ray and HD-DVD.

I've often wondered why they bother putting speakers on every TV. If you're going to spend $5000 on a TV, you'd probably have a good sound system, so why even bother with the TV speakers.

You know, I agree, but you'd be surprised how many posts I've seen on an AV forum (like AVS Forum where someone posts "I just bought a 72 inch HDTV. Can anyone recommend a good surround sound system for under $200?"

I'm not sure that the difference between a descent set of TV speakers and a mid-range surround system is necessarily as obvious as the difference between SDTV and HDTV. For example, when I installed my new HDTV last January, my mom commented on how good the picture looked, but she tells us that she can't really tell the difference between my sound system (Paradigm speakers with Marantz AVR) and her sub-$200 5.1-in-a-box system at her place. Maybe she just has mud in her ears?

As far as your comment about watching the morning news in surround sound, for me it's not the surround sound that makes it worth turning on the AVR. The quality of the sound is much higher than from the TV's speakers (which are actually supposed to be fairly good). If we're going to talk about saving money, I'm sure the sound system (speakers, amps, processors, etc) adds up to a couple hundred bucks in the cost of a TV like mine... and yet the first thing I did when I hooked the TV up was to disable the sound system in the TV menu. Oh well.

There are a few devices on the market at this time, but I'm not sure if any will be a fit for your setup. A good place for info is the "Digital Media Servers & Content Streamers" forum at the AVSForum.com site: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f= 39/

HL-S5679W is wobulated, and no, this isn't really a bad thing. The fact is that these wobulated sets virtually eliminate the SDE (Screen door effect) which is worth a tiny loss of sharpness to most viewers, and is what makes it "cinema smooth" or whatever buzzwords are used. Eventually they probably won't be wobulated, but I think this is more due to market pressures than due to an advantage of non-wobulated sets. BTW, the same is true of all the 1080p HL-S sets, though I'm not certain they all use the exact same DMD chips.

Yes, it starts up really quick. And it doesn't warm up (no big lamp, fewer moving parts).

20,000 hours is the official number, though a lot of people believe these sets will last more like 60,000 hours between having to replace the "bulbs". So, it's somewhere from 3-10 times the lifetime of standard bulbs. We still don't have numbers on the actual cost of these "bulbs" though, so a cost comparison is currently impossible.

This TV got delayed from April to May, to June or July, and then to September, though some dealers let some sets go back in August. The original MSRP of about $4200 is correct though prices have already dropped and you can find it for just over $3000 now, as I understand. Make sure to buy from an authorized retailer!

BTW, I think this is a great set, but it's worth getting a Samsung professionally calibrated (which can run you around $500) to achieve the best picture. At a minimum you should follow some recommendations and perform a user-level calibration, or you're really not doing these sets justice.

If you want to learn more then I recommend this thread on AVS Forum.

HL-S5679W is wobulated, and no, this isn't really a bad thing. The fact is that these wobulated sets virtually eliminate the SDE (Screen door effect) which is worth a tiny loss of sharpness to most viewers, and is what makes it "cinema smooth" or whatever buzzwords are used. Eventually they probably won't be wobulated, but I think this is more due to market pressures than due to an advantage of non-wobulated sets. BTW, the same is true of all the 1080p HL-S sets, though I'm not certain they all use the exact same DMD chips.

Yes, it starts up really quick. And it doesn't warm up (no big lamp, fewer moving parts).

20,000 hours is the official number, though a lot of people believe these sets will last more like 60,000 hours between having to replace the "bulbs". So, it's somewhere from 3-10 times the lifetime of standard bulbs. We still don't have numbers on the actual cost of these "bulbs" though, so a cost comparison is currently impossible.

This TV got delayed from April to May, to June or July, and then to September, though some dealers let some sets go back in August. The original MSRP of about $4200 is correct though prices have already dropped and you can find it for just over $3000 now, as I understand. Make sure to buy from an authorized retailer!

BTW, I think this is a great set, but it's worth getting a Samsung professionally calibrated (which can run you around $500) to achieve the best picture. At a minimum you should follow some recommendations and perform a user-level calibration, or you're really not doing these sets justice.

If you want to learn more then I recommend this thread on AVS Forum.

Man, that page sure makes it seem that Blu-Ray sucks ass. I'm not sure what they based their selections off of...

If you want some better lists to work form, the guys over at avsforum are a much better information source, if you ask me:

HD DVD Picture Quality Tiers List

Blu-Ray Picture Quality Tiers List

Man, that page sure makes it seem that Blu-Ray sucks ass. I'm not sure what they based their selections off of...

If you want some better lists to work form, the guys over at avsforum are a much better information source, if you ask me:

HD DVD Picture Quality Tiers List

Blu-Ray Picture Quality Tiers List

Of course, by FCC mandate all new TVs regardless of size are supposed to have an ATSC tuner in them starting March 2007. So the market for set-top boxes will be very small until 2009 at least, and even then will most people have switched to cable or satellite?

The Westinghouse LVM-37W3 is hands down the best widescreen gaming monitor for less than $1000 available today. I have owned the previous model, a Westinghouse LVM-37w1, for a year now and it's fantastic for gaming. No pixel-lag or ghosting at all, vibrant colors, quick response time while playing shooters, lots and lots of screenspace for extra chat/UI windows while playing MMOGs, etc.

I use this monitor with my PC and it's the ideal screen-size for my viewing distance of 6'. I lean back on a reclining chair and put my feet up on my desk displacing my eyes about 6' from the center of the screen. Here's a good view distance calculator to determine the ideal screen size for your use case.

Notable Specs:

Contrast Ratio 1000:1
Response Time 8 ms

2 years ago specs like that were unheard of for a large LCD. When I bought mine last year the price was roughly $1,700...now you can get a superior model for $800! Amazing.

If you want HDTV, buy a separate and easily replaceable tuner. That way when the mafia...errr MPAA and FCC...finally implement HDCP it will be easier to circumvent.

More information here

It's actually not a fabulous screen. It's an awesome screen for the money(which is why I went front projection, huge image, great quality, and lower cost apart from the bulbs) and I'm amazed at what the surface does for my picture quality(like, we laugh at TV prices at best buy when they're running HD content picture quality), and the nigh invisible waves(oh, they're there, but you can't see them apart from a very slight keystone effect in the upper right-hand corner) non-tensioned.

Optoma Panoview Greywolf screen.

AVS Forums link for the old model. Good price on it over at Visual Apex92", 106" 120".

Also good in that price range is the Da-Lite Hipower.

I can snap some pictures for you if you want.

A guy on AVSForum made it play HD DVD with WinDVD 8... the only problem is HDCP protection (the movie plays at 960x540 instead of 1920x1080)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=6f ebe647fb410235f68199f43c81a50a&p=8880622&&#post888 0622

I think the reason for going with a hard drive has part to do with the fact that the transfer rates for Blu-ray drives at the moment have slower transfer rate than the current crop of DVD drives (Sorry, I couldn't find the original article that mentionned this. The third comment sums the issue nicely). Basically, the 360 has a 12x DVD drive that runs at 11mbps x 12 and PS3 has a 2X BD-ROM drive that runs at 36mbps x 2. So the 360 has faster transfer from the game disk.

Also according to this, you will be able to install PS3 on the hard drive to reduce load times. For example, Genji does it, and it's 4 gig to install. Suddenly that 20 gig HD in the PS3 doesn't seem that big. If people have to install their games to get any decent load times, then the 500$ PS3 might well as bad as a 360 with a memory card. I mean, install 4 games on your console and you're almost out of storage. At least with the 360 it's almost transparent when you have an HD that you are caching stuff to it (that's why you only have 13 gigs instead of 20 when you format it, about 7 gigs are kept for game caches). And I've yet to see horrible load times on the 360, except for Oblivion.

...yet I've only ever heard bad news about the PS3. The Wii is the first console I've ever been excited about, simply because it's meant for my gaming style: multiplayer, social fun.

I have a 37" Westinghouse 1080P LCD as my PC display, and a recently purchased 47" Westinghouse 1080P LCD as my TV. Both are readily available, the former for about $1.5K and the latter for about $2.5K. Here's the endless thread on AVSForum if you want to read more, but I assure you these sets offer simply incredible viewing/playing experiences.

Unfortunately, you bought one that isn't HDCP compliant.

Bullshit, and I hope you get modded for it. HDCP "works" just fine with the switch.

If you don't believe me,
and you don't believe the part on the web page that says: - Certified to perform at standards set by HDMI(TM)
then maybe you wll believe this other guy's extensive test results:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=64 0183

For the case, here's a PC looking case, or a couple of more AV friendly cases by Zalman or a nice Silverstone that's almost indistinguishable from AV equipment.

As for regarding MythTV, if you buy your parts according to the Dragon reference system, you shouldn't have any issues whatsoever, although you may be spending a few more bucks than if you're willing to spend your own time working with a custom configuration of lowest $ parts.

And lastly, let me agree with the Mac Mini. It's slick!

I have to disagree about the audio changes. Prior to reading details of the new audio system I had no interest in even trying vista, even was actively against it. Now I am not so sure. The stuff they've put in there is roughly equivalent to a $10K TacT Audio room correction box. Sure the TacT box is over-priced, but it is still an amazingly cool technology.

Linux has a DRC package available, it is probably even more functional than what MS is providing, but it is orders of magnitude harder to use.

Obviously you didn't do your research. There are many many descriptions on the internet that go into the details of why 1080i and 1080p are essentially identical for movies. Here is another one:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=71 8139

Name one thing that makes HD-DVD "ready for market" that Bluray is failing in.

Picture quality. Here is one review. It is very typical.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/blu-ray_2.htm

The cheaper HD-DVD player is $500, /i

As a benchmark I went on Google's Froogle service and found the Samsung BluRay palyer (cheapest I have seen) low price is $850. On the same search site the Toshiba HD-DVD player was available for $420.

I am sure that better discounts can be found for both. But I'd bet the same ratio will apply.

?

There are plenty of HD DVD titles, and a lot coming. Here's a distilled, updated release list

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=66 5702

And there are plenty titles in production not yet on the release schedule.

Just because it was true in the 1950's and kind of has a caveman feel to it, doesn't mean there isn't a ring of truth to it. If you go over to http://www.avsforum.com/ you'd be surprised as to the number of posts talking about passing the spouse test regards to being esthetically pleasing on required cable hiding, etc.

It's a combination of two factors: Blu-Ray specifies non-lossy 7.1 audio which consumes significant space; mpeg2 is much less efficient at compression than mpeg4 or VC1. Dual layer HD-DVD affords 30GB, plus compressed audio, plus the better codecs, while Blu-Ray is currently only shipping single layer discs (at 25GB). Hence, blu-Ray discs are currently overcompressed due to space constraints.

As the responder to my top post noted, the use of mpeg2 for blu-ray is a function of the rendering software available to content producers. Presumably, that will be resolved in the future. Further, dual layer blu-ray discs are ~50GB a pop - which also lightens the space squeeze. But the current situation is that HD-DVD discs look significantly better than their blu-ray counterparts. It's *very* noticable. Finally, blu-ray drives are twice the price of HD-DVD. Lesser quality, twice the price: that's no way to compete with a product introduction.

I point you to the Blu-Ray forum at avsforum for details. There's no end of bitching about it over there...

A single layer blu-ray disc has ~25GB of capacity, of which almost 15% is used for uncompressed audio. This avsforum thread on the Samsung BDP-1000 is particularly illuminating on the issue of space constraints due to the mix of single layer discs with mpeg2 as the codec. --M

I don't think it's any different than if you were recording shows to VHS tape and saving them. That there is no discussion of this in the Sony Betamax case, has let the issue remain basically open and up for debate (SONY CORP. OF AMER. v. UNIVERSAL CITY STUDIOS, INC., 464 U.S. 417 (1984)). Although the case doesn't say anything explicitly (based on my reading) about tape "librarying," it certainly does acknowledge that it exists, and IIRC some guy with a substantial library of tapes was hauled in to testify during the proceedings. That the court ruled in favor of Sony even though they knew librarying existed as a widespread practice, seems to be at least a small nod in favor.

It seems to me that librarying could be easily interpreted as just time-shifting of an arbitrary duration, as long as the works are not further copied. On the other hand, in the ruling, there is a mention of 'time shifting' being the recording of a program at one time, and then watching it a single time later on. Almost as if the playback was a destructive process, and consumed the recording while doing it. However, this is obviously not the case, and any time-shifting technology inherently gives you the ability to watch a recorded program more than once, which really blows away the single-playback test for time shifting.

What's really interesting is that if you read the footnotes in the opinion, there is a sentence which reads: "To the extent that this practice involves librarying, it is addressed in section V. C., infra." (footnote 39) But -- and this is the best part -- there is no section V.C. in the ruling. Section IV has subsections A through B, but no C. Section V doesn't have any subsections at all. It's as if they wrote a section of the opinion to cover home librarying, but then removed it at the last minute, without even updating the footnotes.

This leaves it in a grey area, and to the best of my knowledge there's never been a straightforward test of whether or not librarying for personal use only (without copying or sharing) is infringement. As the Sony case doesn't specify a length of time that a recording can be shifted, I think it could be argued that it's allowed (provided you can pass the other Fair Use tests). Of course, all this is becoming less and less relevant with the DMCA and DRM; there is no Fair Use exemption to the DMCA (although there is one for "interoperability"), so in today's climate, the Sony case wouldn't have even happened -- thus it's hard to extend the ruling too far into the present and future.

At any rate, given the current murkiness of copyright and Fair Use law, I think an unshared archive of legally recorded OTA programs is probably the least of anyone's potential worries at this point. If that's the only thing you have on your computer or your house that might possibly be in violation, you lead either a very virtuous or very boring life.

If you want to read a rather lengthy discussion of the issue, wherein some fairly well-educated (and some not so much) slug it out, it's been beaten to a bloody pulp and then some over at AVS Forums: http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/history/topic/3 01206-1.html

I assumed this was posted already, but it appears not. I guess I'll get to have the fun :).

FYI, I work on HD DVD at Microsoft.

The employee that was quoted in the article was mistaken. There are already shipping software players for Blu-ray and HD DVD that run on 32-bit XP, and they will continue to work on Windows Vista in 32-bit mode.

Here's our VP's reponse to this from AVSFourm:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=82 79993&&#post8279993

Sorry about the last 601 posts :).

HD CRT sets do not max out at 24 inches. There are plenty of big screen rear projection HD CRT's that arguably have better picture quality than any other HD set out there when properly calibrated.

As for a CRT doing 1080p, see this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=70 8814&page=1&pp=30&highlight=1080p+crt

You don't see production models because no one wants to buy a big CRT projector, despite its technical superiority.

There are relatively inexpensive extended service plans available that cover the cost of the bulb. Here is an example of one that is $260 for a projector $5,000. Depending on the projector, that could pay for the cost of the plan with just a single bulb failure.

But if a company is considering spending $3-5k on a projector or TV, they should be prepared to spend a little on maintenance over time.

I use HP's MD5880n 1080p 58" TV as the primary display for my home computer (which happens to be a Mac). It works spectacularly well, with the exception that if your eyes aren't quite good the 1080p resolution can be hard to read from 10-15 ft (fonts, especially on the web and particularly in web images, can be too small). I bought it for about $3000 shipped, but I think prices are coming down. HP also makes a 65" version, the MD6580n.

These TVs accept a 1080p signal over HDMI. I currently run ADC->DVI and then DVI->HDMI to get the signal from my Mac's ADC (Apple Display Connector, Apple's mix of DVI and power in one cable) output to the HDMI input on the TV. This works with the standard resolutions between 800x600 up to 1920x1080. The TV knows that it's getting its signal from a computer and has a special PC aspect mode, which makes the pixel mapping 1:1 and eliminates overscan. This means that there is a slight area of the screen that doesn't get illuminated, but it's hardly noticable. Apparently you can use one of the other aspect modes and a custom resolution to fix this, but it's not worth the trouble to me.

The HTPC forums at AVSForum.com (this is the Mac forum) and the HP 1080p DLP forum have been particularly good resources for me.

Good luck!

I use HP's MD5880n 1080p 58" TV as the primary display for my home computer (which happens to be a Mac). It works spectacularly well, with the exception that if your eyes aren't quite good the 1080p resolution can be hard to read from 10-15 ft (fonts, especially on the web and particularly in web images, can be too small). I bought it for about $3000 shipped, but I think prices are coming down. HP also makes a 65" version, the MD6580n.

These TVs accept a 1080p signal over HDMI. I currently run ADC->DVI and then DVI->HDMI to get the signal from my Mac's ADC (Apple Display Connector, Apple's mix of DVI and power in one cable) output to the HDMI input on the TV. This works with the standard resolutions between 800x600 up to 1920x1080. The TV knows that it's getting its signal from a computer and has a special PC aspect mode, which makes the pixel mapping 1:1 and eliminates overscan. This means that there is a slight area of the screen that doesn't get illuminated, but it's hardly noticable. Apparently you can use one of the other aspect modes and a custom resolution to fix this, but it's not worth the trouble to me.

The HTPC forums at AVSForum.com (this is the Mac forum) and the HP 1080p DLP forum have been particularly good resources for me.

Good luck!

DLP technology, as others have mentioned, is really cool and has a lot of potential. It is also less expensive than LCD/Plasma, but it is not without problems. (For anyone interested in really researching this, go to AVS Forum, the bible on this sort of thing.) If going DLP, I highly recommend looking into waiting for LED light based models. The first one is coming out right about now. Lots of DLP owners are having trouble with lamps breaking within 1 year at costs of >$200 -- sometimes as high as $400. Other complain about fan noise, rainbow effects, or breaking color wheels. LED based models, in theory, should solve all of these problems, and finally create a large 1080p wide screen tv technology that doesn't lose significant picture quality over time.

I know you said 50" plus, but you might want to check out Westinghouse brand LCDs. They are absolutely amazing value for money. The top of the line is currently a 47" LCD panel, but they are rumored to be adding a 56" some time this year. I just picked one up and it's great - plenty bright enough even in a daylit room, good anti-glare coating on it. And best of all it's 1080P, which if you're using a PC or Mac to drive it means you get a really crisp and clear picture at a reasonable resolution!

They're relatively cheap too. Westinghouse is trying to establish itself and make a name in the consumer electronics market so they are consistently selling way under their competition. You might want to check out the AVS Forum on the topic. If you like what you see, you can pick it up from Crutchfield (30 day satisfaction guarantee and free shipping included) for $2499.

I haven't read a post by anyone saying any BluRay disk looks good or even acceptable. Compare that to HD DVD which had some very favorable reviews.

Please do be sure to post your blow by blow accounts of how you will be beaten within an inch of hope by this process, so that we may make snide comments while we secretly are grateful for your courage to wander into this firestorm of global-scale corporate tiddlywinks.

Where is the news it has been possible to buy a recorder since at least dec 2004 in Japan

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php? s=&threadid=469239

Lars

"Anyone who buys this first Blu-Ray player will confirm the theory that a sucker is born every minute."

"Well here is a whole http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=68 8422 (including my self) who disagree."

Well...the latter doesn't really excludes the former. In fact, it could well be substantiating it.

I find myself leaning towards the former statements: people who buy such stuff for a price which will be halved next year, and even without knowing IF it will last a year, nor if it will be the surviving format...well, they are, indeed, suckers. I mean, you're basically spending 1000 bucks on something that has a good chance of turning up worthless withing a copple of years... and squandering money like that IS stupid, IMHO. Especially if it's mainly done for bragging - as the forum you link to actually demonstrates.

Then again, a person may do with his money whatever he likes, I guess, even stupid things. Maybe you'll make it so, that blu-ray becomes the dominant format and reasonable priced in 5 years; so - seen from my advantage-point - your foolishness may actually be a good thing. Keep it going, bro! ;-)

Well start eating. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=68 8422

That's fantastic (the fact that it is shipping to retailers). I won't "eat" until the reviews (and brave early buyers at avsforum) confirm that "it works" without any overly annoying bugs. I'll prepare a Taiyo Yuden disc, just in case.

Well start eating. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=68 8422

Well here is a whole http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=68 8422 (including my self) who disagree. I believe that as I type, four have been "liberated" from various BB's around the country. The thread starter is now also claming that he has The Fifth Element BDA disc. p.s how do I post links as words here?

Nope, referring to gems like these:

42" 1080p LCD HD Monitor (For Cheap)
Same, only 37"

Westinghouse isn't the only company doing this. You'll find a bunch of HD PC gamers who are doing stuff like this already on the AVS Forums

Ok, I must be missing here (the details of HDTV were not very specific). Do other people NOT decode HDTV, and is that milestone? Any product by DVICO will also decode HDTV. My Dvico USB unit decodes it. All you need is an antenna. Granted, only local stations are picked up. But it doesnt matter, you can copy everything else too using other methods. Is he referring to cracking the RCE broadcast flag that certain HDTV channels have (INHD/INHD2 in certain areas?). Does my comcast box not already decode HDTV? I guess I don't fully understand the issue. Even if the RCE broadcast flag is set in the HDTV content, you can still plug in a firewire cable (at least in the Motorola/comcast boxes), and output to your workstation, capturing the raw .ts HDTV streams. All the ports are already open (as required by law), just no firmware for the boxes. YOu can even verify the active firewire using the command power-select-select, then going to section 11 and verifying the active ports changed from 0 to 1. Once you have these .ts streams saved, you can output back to your HDTV using DVI if you have it. And doesnt the RCE flag (again, required by law) require you be able to save it at least ONCE (common for pay-per-view on demand). In that case you capture it while it is playing, and you still get it. You don't have to respect the flag, it's up to the client (comcast). If they didn't though, they would loose all their advertising money. However, I don't know why a client on a workstation would need to repsect the broadcast flag. And if you are that interested in saving your HDTV content: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&t hreadid=353608&highlight=windows+xp+firewire

I always got to AVS Forum and Projector Central for information on technology and reviews, etc.

I don't plan on buying a TV in the traditional sense next - I'm going to get a projector instead. They're portable, the viewing angle is never a consideration (since all the light is reflected to the viewer) and you can get as big a picture as you could possibly desire. There's nothing quite like watching a Monday night football game on the side of your neighbor's house!

The AVS Forum is a great place to ask questions like this.

I bought a Samsung DLP unit, but had to return it due to strobing rainbow effect. It was a really great image, though that was in part because Samsung was doing a very high level of algorithmic sharpening, which can cause halos around some images. But I really couldn't move my eyes across it without seeing the trailing rainbows.

I didn't see this effect in the store at all, but at home the awareness of it really did build up. If you are interested in DLP, you might look at the new units that use high speed LED arrays instead of a high intensity white light bulb to handle the color.. these new ones still flash the colors in sequence, but the sequencing is much faster, and it really and truly is supposed to be below the perceptual threshold for everybody.

I wound up getting a Sony SXRD LCoS set swapped out for the Samsung DLP.. the SXRD was more expensive, but the resolution was higher (true 1920x1280p), with more digital connectors, and better firmware. The SXRD sets are similar to DLP in that they are digital microdisplay projectors, but they use three LCoS color panels instead of a color wheel spinning in front of a micromirror array.

If you want a good place to read heated and informed opinions about the various choices on offer, check out http://www.avsforum.com/.

Good luck!

I'm alwasy surprised that anyone on Slashdot has ever heard of me :).

Sure. Here's an announcement from Sony mentioning that they're doing 25GB, only stating that some lines "will be capable" of 50 GB

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT= 104&STORY=/www/story/05-16-2006/0004362681&EDATE=

And this thread at AVSForum has a good analysis of the numbers (you can't go wrong on that forum by just searching for any post by amillians):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=76 67705&&#post7667705

Well $600 was indeed too much, and I'm not buying that one.

However since the base model is $500, and can play movies at 1080i and games at 1080p (you can do component video over 1080p, read AVSForums to understand what you can and cannot do without HDMI or HDCP) I see no need for the $600 model as someone that just wants to play games and use the Blu-Ray player.

So now that we've settled on $500 as the more accurate cost, consider next that with inflation factored in $500 is not that much more expensive than the $300 PS2 at the time it released. For me in partiular it's less of s atretch to spend $500 today than it was to spend $300 then. And I am right in the prime target market for gamers (30's) who are mostly seeing similar rises in income over time as they grow older and get promoted.

Think of the millions of people who have been buying HDTV's like mad. Those suckers cost a huge amount compared to the PS3! Obviously people are ready and willing to spend money on HD video products.

Lastly look at the insane prices the 360 reached last Christmas. Many tens of thousands of people were willing to risk using eBay and many paid for more than $500.

There's really not so much of a problem to distribute an encrypted file and essentially sell the key to decrypt it separately. Obviously everyone will have the same key, but apparently at least part of the movie industry considered it to be sufficient to obfuscate this key with a few layers of encryption and stick this in some nondescript, hidden directory, as was done with the doomed wmv HD DVDs. (someone please post the keys to decrypt Step Into Liquid, it's just too annoying having to find an open proxy to be allowed to watch a legally bought film)

If you have the patience of a Saint, The SA8000 and SA8300 SD DVRs are great.

Recently upgraded to Cox Digital (free Stars and ShowTime for 3 months) and added the DVR service.

The 1st SA8000 box seemed to work fine, until we attempted to use the DVR functions. All recordings were laggy and pixilated.

Went the the Cox office and got a replacement SA8000... When I got home, the unit wouldn't even power up. Seeing where the patience comes in yet?

Went back to Cox. Explained my frustration. Was given a 3rd SA8000. Asked that they find a SA8300, that I'd heard they were more reliable. Cox rep (very attractive lady) said no problem, when one came in I'd get a call.

The 3rd SA8000 has worked flawlessly! (knock on wood)

I've heard the SA8300HD-DVRs are also flakey, and the eSATA port may or may not see attached expansion storage or programs recorded on eSATA drives may be laggy and pixilated like they were on my first SA8000.

This thread may be informative:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=51 6559

When you find one that works, the SA8x00 boxes Cox has seem to be great. At this point, I wouldn't want to start experimenting with any new combos, Tivo or not. If it aint broke don't fix it!

elite few?

The elite few use projectors and anamorphic lenses in a 2.35:1 Constant Image Height configuration.

HDTVs are not elite goods.

And this is the message you get when upgrading the firmware:
http://www.cstone.net.nyud.net:8090/~dk/hda1legal. jpg

The article fails to mention the where the AVS forums and reviews of the new players are at. They are here