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Only housing is 400% more expensive. Gas is about 20% more. Most other things are about the same. Fresh produce is cheaper.

Housing is by far most people's biggest cost so that's not a minor thing. Let's get some better data Cost of housing in San Francisco is about 7X that of the US average and California overall is about 3X that of the US average. Median house price in California is around $500K and in the Bay Area it is over a million. Groceries are more expensive on average in CA, albeit modestly so. Gas and transportation in CA are 40-70% more expensive. Gas prices in the Bay area as I type this are around $3.40/gal versus around $2.10/gal in the midwest. That is ~60% more expensive for those counting at home.

So the tl;dr version is that CA has substantially and provably more expensive cost of living than most of the country. Not saying that is a good or bad thing, but it is a fact. If Silicon Valley or Manhattan is where you need to be to get where you want to go then do what you need to do. But there is a price tag attached to that.

When I moved to Silicon Valley, I lived in my van for two years.

I'm going to stop you right there. Obviously you didn't have a wife, children, and were young enough to find that a palatable option. (or if you had any of the above you had a VERY unusual wife) That sort of thing is fine when you are young, single, and have limited responsibilities and social obligations outside of work. If you are all about the job and in a position to do that then good on you but few people can or will live that sort of lifestyle and expecting others to do it is unrealistic.

Then I got a private office, and slept on a roll-up mat.

Yeah there are damn few employers who would be ok with you sleeping in the office. Maybe that sort of thing is normal at some companies where you are but that is not normal in general. Certainly not outside silicon valley.

Seattle raised it to $15.45 for large chains this year, with exceptions for smaller businesses that go as low as $14 without benefits and $11.50 with them. Meanwhile, Portland's current minimum wage is actually $12.00 and not $11.25 as you've stated.

Thus, it is presently possible to actually earn a smaller official minimum in Seattle than in Portland, provided you work for a small company with tips and/or good benefits.

When actually considering the past the situation is not that different: In 2009, Seattle's minimum matched its state minimum at $8.55. Meanwhile, in Portland the minimum wage was $8.40.

In both cities, the minimum wage has been increasing at since the recession. In 2016, when it was $9.25 state-wide, Oregon assed a bill to increase it every year by 50 cents, with Portland having a dollar more than standard and $1.25 over rural. Although Seattle's minimum is higher, it has exceptions and a greater cost of living than Portland. Minimum wages will be pegged to inflation by 2021 for Washington and 2023 for Oregon, with continued cost-of-living adjustments for their respective urban juggernauts.

It might also be worth it to consider how different state regulations, port access, and local industries affect these cities and their unemployment rates. I don't have all day for that, but if you're truely interested in this subject feel free to dive in.

Oh! A rebuttal! I checked your link and they show a number with nothing to back it up. It says from 1-100 based on FBI data, and nothing else. I gave it a try and found this:
Link that shows Huston has 800% the violent crime rate of Chicago!

Yep, PopeRatzo found a questionable source that claims Huston has 8x the violent crime rate of Chicago. Does that even make any sense? Does it sound possible? Nope. But for the idiot liar PopeRatzo it must not be questioned because it fits the agenda. Truth doesn't matter, only the agenda. Links I provided showed actual numbers, not some made up shit that attempts to lie to make Chicago sound like a safe city.

Don't trust PopeRatzo. He is an idiot and a liar.

PopeRatzo posted a fact that can be looked up!

Here you go:

https://www.bestplaces.net/com...

Chicago's violent crime rate is almost exactly the same as Dallas', and Dallas actually has a higher rate of property crime.

Well, it isn't. What would be a fair "livable" minimum wage nationwide - something that would cover San Francisco, CA, and McAllen, TX? SF is 3.4 times more expensive than McAllen... Rather than have a Federal minimum wage, it should be a local - or at highest, State - kind of thing.

The median income is $25K/year, the median household income is $55K/year,. Anybody in the Bay Area can tell you Richmond is poor. Why are you posting about something you clearly know nothing about?

I rather think worrying about feeding a furnace in Pittsburgh is a bit overblown.

A few stats:

Average temperature: 52F

Annual high temperature: 61.4F

Average annual precipitation - rainfall: 34.8 inch

Annual low temperature: 42.6F

And snow ??

Snowfall is 27 inches. The average US city gets 26 inches of snow per year.

On average, there are 160 sunny days per year in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The July high is around 84 degrees. The January low is 22. Sperling's comfort index for Pittsburgh is a 52 out of 100, where a higher score indicates a more comfortable year-around climate. The US average for the comfort index is 54.

So, pretty much an average climate, with a much lower cost-of-living than the Bay Area.

Literally nothing you said about Houston in this post is actually true. Poorly maintained roadways? Have you ever been to the Northeast!?

Hwys 45, 610, 10, 69 and 59 are absolutely abysmal. The signage is practically non-existent and they're designed so people have to cross 6 lanes of traffic in a short distance to exit. Even with 10-lane behemoths, traffic in Houston is still some of the worst in the US besides Atlanta.

Sperling's Best Places ranks Houston as #2 on the list of the most irritating cities in the United States. Atlanta is #1.

http://www.bestplaces.net/docs...

I love this list, by the way. Here is the criteria:

The “Edge Anti-Irritation Study” examines 11 separate categories, comparing national data to extrapolate metropolitan rankings. Categories measured include: humidity levels; weather conditions; incidence of traffic delays and congestion; average commute times; frequency of flight delays and cancelations; rates of sleeplessness; underemployment; pollens and allergens; pests; and comedy clubs per capita.

The town I live in now is always near the top of the rankings of best places to live in the US.

What city is that? IIRC, you live in Paso Robles, right? That is 1.4 times the cost of living in Houston, for the average person.

Hmmm... Santa Barbara is about the most beautiful city in Southern California. Beaches, mountains, near-perfect weather, phenomenal architecture, small and tree-lined streets. And it's about 2.5 times the cost of Houston. How about Ventura? A 1.5 times differential. Need something more urban, perhaps like Santa Monica? 3 times differential. Irvine, Dana Point, Oceanside, Ojai, San Diego - all much more expensive than Houston. So which beautiful California city do you think is cheaper than Houston? Even Bakersfield is more expensive than Houston - and that's considered a pit that has its only redeeming quality being it's not Oildale.

Hmmm... Santa Barbara is about the most beautiful city in Southern California. Beaches, mountains, near-perfect weather, phenomenal architecture, small and tree-lined streets. And it's about 2.5 times the cost of Houston. How about Ventura? A 1.5 times differential. Need something more urban, perhaps like Santa Monica? 3 times differential. Irvine, Dana Point, Oceanside, Ojai, San Diego - all much more expensive than Houston. So which beautiful California city do you think is cheaper than Houston? Even Bakersfield is more expensive than Houston - and that's considered a pit that has its only redeeming quality being it's not Oildale.

Hmmm... Santa Barbara is about the most beautiful city in Southern California. Beaches, mountains, near-perfect weather, phenomenal architecture, small and tree-lined streets. And it's about 2.5 times the cost of Houston. How about Ventura? A 1.5 times differential. Need something more urban, perhaps like Santa Monica? 3 times differential. Irvine, Dana Point, Oceanside, Ojai, San Diego - all much more expensive than Houston. So which beautiful California city do you think is cheaper than Houston? Even Bakersfield is more expensive than Houston - and that's considered a pit that has its only redeeming quality being it's not Oildale.

Hmmm... Santa Barbara is about the most beautiful city in Southern California. Beaches, mountains, near-perfect weather, phenomenal architecture, small and tree-lined streets. And it's about 2.5 times the cost of Houston. How about Ventura? A 1.5 times differential. Need something more urban, perhaps like Santa Monica? 3 times differential. Irvine, Dana Point, Oceanside, Ojai, San Diego - all much more expensive than Houston. So which beautiful California city do you think is cheaper than Houston? Even Bakersfield is more expensive than Houston - and that's considered a pit that has its only redeeming quality being it's not Oildale.

Hmmm... Santa Barbara is about the most beautiful city in Southern California. Beaches, mountains, near-perfect weather, phenomenal architecture, small and tree-lined streets. And it's about 2.5 times the cost of Houston. How about Ventura? A 1.5 times differential. Need something more urban, perhaps like Santa Monica? 3 times differential. Irvine, Dana Point, Oceanside, Ojai, San Diego - all much more expensive than Houston. So which beautiful California city do you think is cheaper than Houston? Even Bakersfield is more expensive than Houston - and that's considered a pit that has its only redeeming quality being it's not Oildale.

Hmmm... Santa Barbara is about the most beautiful city in Southern California. Beaches, mountains, near-perfect weather, phenomenal architecture, small and tree-lined streets. And it's about 2.5 times the cost of Houston. How about Ventura? A 1.5 times differential. Need something more urban, perhaps like Santa Monica? 3 times differential. Irvine, Dana Point, Oceanside, Ojai, San Diego - all much more expensive than Houston. So which beautiful California city do you think is cheaper than Houston? Even Bakersfield is more expensive than Houston - and that's considered a pit that has its only redeeming quality being it's not Oildale.

Hmmm... Santa Barbara is about the most beautiful city in Southern California. Beaches, mountains, near-perfect weather, phenomenal architecture, small and tree-lined streets. And it's about 2.5 times the cost of Houston. How about Ventura? A 1.5 times differential. Need something more urban, perhaps like Santa Monica? 3 times differential. Irvine, Dana Point, Oceanside, Ojai, San Diego - all much more expensive than Houston. So which beautiful California city do you think is cheaper than Houston? Even Bakersfield is more expensive than Houston - and that's considered a pit that has its only redeeming quality being it's not Oildale.

Hmmm... Santa Barbara is about the most beautiful city in Southern California. Beaches, mountains, near-perfect weather, phenomenal architecture, small and tree-lined streets. And it's about 2.5 times the cost of Houston. How about Ventura? A 1.5 times differential. Need something more urban, perhaps like Santa Monica? 3 times differential. Irvine, Dana Point, Oceanside, Ojai, San Diego - all much more expensive than Houston. So which beautiful California city do you think is cheaper than Houston? Even Bakersfield is more expensive than Houston - and that's considered a pit that has its only redeeming quality being it's not Oildale.

Hmmm... Santa Barbara is about the most beautiful city in Southern California. Beaches, mountains, near-perfect weather, phenomenal architecture, small and tree-lined streets. And it's about 2.5 times the cost of Houston. How about Ventura? A 1.5 times differential. Need something more urban, perhaps like Santa Monica? 3 times differential. Irvine, Dana Point, Oceanside, Ojai, San Diego - all much more expensive than Houston. So which beautiful California city do you think is cheaper than Houston? Even Bakersfield is more expensive than Houston - and that's considered a pit that has its only redeeming quality being it's not Oildale.

I call BS. Houston power starts at $0.087 per kWh. And power from PG&E for the Paso Robles area (central coast) start at $0.199 per kWh and go up. That's over twice as much. Using GasBuddy.com, gas in CA averages $3.07 per gallon, and in TX it is around $2.12 per gallon.

Paso Robles, CA is around 1.44 times the national average for cost of living, Houston is at 1.02 - just about average for the US.

Property tax rates in CA are fairly low compared to TX, but the average home in Houston is around $220,000. In Paso Robles, houses are twice that price. Sure, property taxes are a bit lower in CA, but we also have a 13.3% income tax compared to 0% for TX. If you make just about anything more than $10,000 per year, your property tax "savings" in CA are swallowed up by State income tax.

I call BS. Houston power starts at $0.087 per kWh. And power from PG&E for the Paso Robles area (central coast) start at $0.199 per kWh and go up. That's over twice as much. Using GasBuddy.com, gas in CA averages $3.07 per gallon, and in TX it is around $2.12 per gallon.

Paso Robles, CA is around 1.44 times the national average for cost of living, Houston is at 1.02 - just about average for the US.

Property tax rates in CA are fairly low compared to TX, but the average home in Houston is around $220,000. In Paso Robles, houses are twice that price. Sure, property taxes are a bit lower in CA, but we also have a 13.3% income tax compared to 0% for TX. If you make just about anything more than $10,000 per year, your property tax "savings" in CA are swallowed up by State income tax.

I call BS. Houston power starts at $0.087 per kWh. And power from PG&E for the Paso Robles area (central coast) start at $0.199 per kWh and go up. That's over twice as much. Using GasBuddy.com, gas in CA averages $3.07 per gallon, and in TX it is around $2.12 per gallon.

Paso Robles, CA is around 1.44 times the national average for cost of living, Houston is at 1.02 - just about average for the US.

Property tax rates in CA are fairly low compared to TX, but the average home in Houston is around $220,000. In Paso Robles, houses are twice that price. Sure, property taxes are a bit lower in CA, but we also have a 13.3% income tax compared to 0% for TX. If you make just about anything more than $10,000 per year, your property tax "savings" in CA are swallowed up by State income tax.

I call BS. Houston power starts at $0.087 per kWh. And power from PG&E for the Paso Robles area (central coast) start at $0.199 per kWh and go up. That's over twice as much. Using GasBuddy.com, gas in CA averages $3.07 per gallon, and in TX it is around $2.12 per gallon.

Paso Robles, CA is around 1.44 times the national average for cost of living, Houston is at 1.02 - just about average for the US.

Property tax rates in CA are fairly low compared to TX, but the average home in Houston is around $220,000. In Paso Robles, houses are twice that price. Sure, property taxes are a bit lower in CA, but we also have a 13.3% income tax compared to 0% for TX. If you make just about anything more than $10,000 per year, your property tax "savings" in CA are swallowed up by State income tax.

your 100-120k job might only get you 50-60k in dubuque, iowa; but the cost of living is ONE THIRD that of the san francisco area.

http://www.bestplaces.net/cost...

even the slums of san jose aren't much better. you have to really give up the qualities of living and move to oakland (the horror) to get it to about half compared to dubuque.

I went to every college in the area and said "If you have taken a programming class, I want you. I'll pay you. I'll train you in the languages we use" and no responses. Why??

Because a high school dropout can pull 45k managing A FAST FOOD RESTAURANT. (at least for a little while longer)

A high school GRADUATE can pull 50k+ working a call center.

A college GRADUATE *needs* to command 60k+ just to cover the overhead from 4 years of loans.

You know the workers exists, you said so in your post. Yet you fill your US funded lab with foreigners and wonder what the problem is. Are *YOU* working for 45k a year?

Looks like the cost of living in MD is 30% higher than the average accost the board.

Your offer of 45k a year is quite low, or spot-dead average (depending on who you ask) for a fresh bachelors degree.

That's why. Raise your offer by 31% and when your foreign nationals are sent home and you will instead draw local talent. This is the POINT. Stop pretending to be clueless. It sounds like you are in a leadership position and are seeing the effects of the wage deflation this discussion is all about first hand. You're not going to see much sympathy, but you Will get through it.

Look on the bright side, soon you will be improving the lives of 6 American families, and all of the local businesses they frequent.

Officially we get 278 days a year of sun, but I think it's more than that, at least these last few years. But hey, you lived near here, you know, right? It's not like you're here NOW... Quite a far cry from your claim of "Lots of overcast", eh?

Bitch bitch bitch. I went to High School in Ithaca NY. The sources I can find that have data for both cities put them pretty close. BestPlaces says Seattle has 152 sunny days, and Ithaca has 154 sunny days. HomeFacts says Seattle has 56 clear days, and Ithaca has 53 clear days. They're pretty comparable, but Ithaca has a lot more snow. I think I'd handle Seattle's climate fine.

I remember a math teacher once stopping class to bring our attention to a patch of blue sky that had temporarily appeared. I don't think people were particularly depressed.

Bitch bitch bitch. I went to High School in Ithaca NY. The sources I can find that have data for both cities put them pretty close. BestPlaces says Seattle has 152 sunny days, and Ithaca has 154 sunny days. HomeFacts says Seattle has 56 clear days, and Ithaca has 53 clear days. They're pretty comparable, but Ithaca has a lot more snow. I think I'd handle Seattle's climate fine.

I remember a math teacher once stopping class to bring our attention to a patch of blue sky that had temporarily appeared. I don't think people were particularly depressed.

Luckily the low income people in Texas will get much farther with the few dollars they have.

http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/state/texas
http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/state/california

Luckily the low income people in Texas will get much farther with the few dollars they have.

http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/state/texas
http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/state/california

I've been to SF before, as well as lived in Hawaii and Japan so I'm not really fazed by high prices. Before I accepted the job offer I did use a cost of living comparison calculator. There are also other mitigating factors such as my wife's employability skyrockets in west coast cities.

Even then, there are other intangibles that you can't measure with a cost of living calculator. I knew quite a few people who took significant pay cuts (25 - 60% decrease) to move to Hawaii. I am interested in working for small companies and / or startups. While Austin's startup community is fairly strong, there really is no comparison to Silicon Valley. People move to NYC for the similar reasons, despite better cost of living situations elsewhere.

In either case, I can always move back if San Francisco doesn't work out.

WSJ recently reported average base salary for Google engineers as $128K. You can finance the same lifestyle in Ann Arbor with $79K.

http://www.bestplaces.net/col/?salary=128336&city2=52603000&city1=50668000

According to an online Cost of Living Comparison Tool, if I wanted to accept a job at Google they'd need to more than double my salary.

I think comparison tools are very inaccurate about what things actually cost and obscure the value of things that are usually summed up with the phrase "quality of life".

I live and work in SF after having come from Athens, OH, and your comparison tool is telling me that if I moved this year I would need need 117% more money than I did in Athens. I actually make about fifty percent more than I did when I lived in Ohio and I have much more money than I did when I lived in Ohio.

More importantly, there are some things no amount of personal compensation could provide: ethnic diversity, world class cuisine, sublime landscape, beautiful weather year round, municipal infrastructure (no boil orders for septically contaminated water), and a dozen other things even 50 years of economic development could not deliver to places like the one I lived in in Ohio.

"Cost" of living is not just about money and direct comparisons based on money equivalence don't capture the whole picture.

According to an online Cost of Living Comparison Tool, if I wanted to accept a job at Google they'd need to more than double my salary.

I think comparison tools are very inaccurate about what things actually cost and obscure the value of things that are usually summed up with the phrase "quality of life".

I live and work in SF after having come from Athens, OH, and your comparison tool is telling me that if I moved this year I would need need 117% more money than I did in Athens. I actually make about fifty percent more than I did when I lived in Ohio and I have much more money than I did when I lived in Ohio.

More importantly, there are some things no amount of personal compensation could provide: ethnic diversity, world class cuisine, sublime landscape, beautiful weather year round, municipal infrastructure (no boil orders for septically contaminated water), and a dozen other things even 50 years of economic development could not deliver to places like the one I lived in in Ohio.

"Cost" of living is not just about money and direct comparisons based on money equivalence don't capture the whole picture.

Considering the amount of effort in getting a job there, the hours worked, and the cost of living in Mountain View, I think that roughly equals minimum wage.

You were moderated funny, but that's actually insightful. According to an online Cost of Living Comparison Tool, if I wanted to accept a job at Google they'd need to more than double my salary.

I think that their insistence on moving engineers to Mountain View is likely hurting them.

http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/state/hawaii

According to that page, the cost of living is over 75% higher then average for the US mainland. I was told when i vacationed there 20 some years ago, it was because everything is shipped in.

Dude... 60K in Cali is like 25K in houston.

If you want cheap programmers do what everyone else does and move to Austin.

Checkout 80225 in Denver - small grey square east of down town above the "L" for Lakewood. It looks like just one persons queue; titles from the same series, common sense of humour, etc... Plus, according to this random page there's only one person living in that zip code. I think we have winner for this round of "thoughtless privacy invasion".

It's not perfect, but I live here and love it. I'm not part of the CVB, but I welcome any well-run business fed up with their home state to take a look at Boise. It's a great place to live.

It's not perfect, but I live here and love it. I'm not part of the CVB, but I welcome any well-run business fed up with their home state to take a look at Boise. It's a great place to live.

But you do see a violent crime rate higher than the US National Average http://www.bestplaces.net/city/Virgin-Utah.aspx

Cost of Living comparison sites are good. That'll give you an idea of the comparison between two jobs in different places...One may be offering 50% more, but that 50% more may actually be a net loss depending on the cost of living.

Demographic information can give you average salaries, but you MUST weigh that in terms of the cost of living. Don't take a job for the national average salary in a city where the cost of living is twice the national average. You can get lots of salary information on Google.

I'd say there is no definite source. You're going to have to weigh and consider what you need, and what the job is worth to you. Don't be afraid to take less for a job that has great experience/training opportunities, and don't be afraid to ask for more if the job looks like hell on earth.

Really? It costs you more to live in Alaska than in the lower 48?

How about compared to San Francisco? How about compared to New York? Alaska may be above the average, but it's by no means one of the most expensive places to live. Sorry, if you compare metropolitan centers, that doesn't hold up. Even if you compare a relatively remote region, or a region with no natural water ways for shipping benefit, it still doesn't hold up.

I realized my error about including the energy supplement after I posted the comment. Though technically the $1,200 supplement was paid out as part of your PFD supplement (the PFD site you linked outlines this). It's still a PFD, it's just almost twice what you got last year because you got an "energy supplement" included in it, plus a $400 increase in the base payout.

Anyway, my original point was two-fold. 1a) The AK government has a significant excess of money such that they feel a need to refund it to their citizens. 1b) this means Sarah Palin has not had to do any tough budgeting. 2) Comparing federal money sent to AK per capita against federal money sent to Washington DC per capita is an absurd comparison when AK has oodles of natural resources and plenty of excess money, while DC isn't even a state and doesn't have the land mass to have any exports at all.

Really? It costs you more to live in Alaska than in the lower 48?

How about compared to San Francisco? How about compared to New York? Alaska may be above the average, but it's by no means one of the most expensive places to live. Sorry, if you compare metropolitan centers, that doesn't hold up. Even if you compare a relatively remote region, or a region with no natural water ways for shipping benefit, it still doesn't hold up.

I realized my error about including the energy supplement after I posted the comment. Though technically the $1,200 supplement was paid out as part of your PFD supplement (the PFD site you linked outlines this). It's still a PFD, it's just almost twice what you got last year because you got an "energy supplement" included in it, plus a $400 increase in the base payout.

Anyway, my original point was two-fold. 1a) The AK government has a significant excess of money such that they feel a need to refund it to their citizens. 1b) this means Sarah Palin has not had to do any tough budgeting. 2) Comparing federal money sent to AK per capita against federal money sent to Washington DC per capita is an absurd comparison when AK has oodles of natural resources and plenty of excess money, while DC isn't even a state and doesn't have the land mass to have any exports at all.

Really? It costs you more to live in Alaska than in the lower 48?

How about compared to San Francisco? How about compared to New York? Alaska may be above the average, but it's by no means one of the most expensive places to live. Sorry, if you compare metropolitan centers, that doesn't hold up. Even if you compare a relatively remote region, or a region with no natural water ways for shipping benefit, it still doesn't hold up.

I realized my error about including the energy supplement after I posted the comment. Though technically the $1,200 supplement was paid out as part of your PFD supplement (the PFD site you linked outlines this). It's still a PFD, it's just almost twice what you got last year because you got an "energy supplement" included in it, plus a $400 increase in the base payout.

Anyway, my original point was two-fold. 1a) The AK government has a significant excess of money such that they feel a need to refund it to their citizens. 1b) this means Sarah Palin has not had to do any tough budgeting. 2) Comparing federal money sent to AK per capita against federal money sent to Washington DC per capita is an absurd comparison when AK has oodles of natural resources and plenty of excess money, while DC isn't even a state and doesn't have the land mass to have any exports at all.

Really? It costs you more to live in Alaska than in the lower 48?

How about compared to San Francisco? How about compared to New York? Alaska may be above the average, but it's by no means one of the most expensive places to live. Sorry, if you compare metropolitan centers, that doesn't hold up. Even if you compare a relatively remote region, or a region with no natural water ways for shipping benefit, it still doesn't hold up.

I realized my error about including the energy supplement after I posted the comment. Though technically the $1,200 supplement was paid out as part of your PFD supplement (the PFD site you linked outlines this). It's still a PFD, it's just almost twice what you got last year because you got an "energy supplement" included in it, plus a $400 increase in the base payout.

Anyway, my original point was two-fold. 1a) The AK government has a significant excess of money such that they feel a need to refund it to their citizens. 1b) this means Sarah Palin has not had to do any tough budgeting. 2) Comparing federal money sent to AK per capita against federal money sent to Washington DC per capita is an absurd comparison when AK has oodles of natural resources and plenty of excess money, while DC isn't even a state and doesn't have the land mass to have any exports at all.

Kansas city is much more than half within MO http://www.bestplaces.net/city/default.aspx?cat=PEOPLE&city=Kansas_City_MO&ccity=Kansas_City_KS&p=2938000&op=2036000

The example I've heard others use is Camden, NJ.

http://www.bestplaces.net/City/Camden_NJ-OVERVIEW-53410000000.aspx

It's a very ironic example due to its close proximity to some of the richest folks in the country and even ivy league colleges.

So no, you don't need to go South to find big groups of poor people (aka high crime, low education) in the USA. Just don't think about that too long or it gets uncomfortable.

Crime, you say? Take a look at the comparative positions of NY metro areas (more than just NYC) vs. FL metro areas with regard to crime.

i recently went through this drill in searching for my first job after graduate school. i did an extensive amount of research in the process, based on which i can state the following (general--YMMV) observations:

a) average pay for a person with given qualifications can vary widely (>20%), even within a given industry.

b) average pay can, and does, vary widely between industries (e.g. aerospace vs. electrical engineering).

c) despite how they may act upon initial contact, HR people are not your friends. their job is to make you feel like they're your buddy, and to create the appearance of "it's you and me against The Man," where "The Man" is the company in question, early on in the negotiation process.

d) after getting the go-ahead from the hiring manager, HR's job is to get you on board for the lowest possible amount of money. if you think about it, doing things significantly differently would be financially irresponsible from the company's standpoint in most cases.

e) do your homework. that way you can counter glib and/or arbitrary assertions from the HR person about salary with tangible facts. even then they will likely not concede an inch verbally, but it does make a difference.

f) in case it is not clear from points b) through e) above, HR people are weasels. i was incredibly lucky to receive seven offers from seven interviews. with one small exception, this was the case in all of them.

g) whoever names a number first during the negotiation process generally loses.

although the title makes it sound very much like a huckster's manual, jack chapman's book is actually pretty decent and worth a look. some of its advice may be inapplicable or unworkable for you, but it's a good place to start. you can find it at most big bookstores for about $10. (no, i have no affiliation whatsoever with him.)

some universities' career offices publish historical starting salaries for their graduates online. if this isn't your first job, these numbers may not be directly relevant to you, but it's another piece of information. stanford MIT.

other salary links: the wall street journal published two surveys in the november 5, 2004 issue, one showing average salary by location, another by degree/education, for computer engineers. my two links are both dead, but if you have access to a library or a subscription to the WSJ archives, those are worth a look.

cost-of-living calculators one, two, three, four, five. that last one is a general link to the ACCRA index. it is not published for free on the web AFAIK, but if you google around you may find snapshots posted in various places.)

finally, general salary negotiation advice links: one, two, three.

be prepared, and good luck! /CF

Here's a nifty Cost of Living Calculator for the United States. Looks like the data is a little out of date. Anyone seen a more recent one?