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Salary Negotiation for an IT Position?
HerculesMO asks: "I am a Windows Systems Administrator and work for a pretty large corporation. I know that I'm underpaid for what I do, and as such, I've been looking for another position. The problem is however, that a lot of potential positions ask for what you are currently making -- and it's a bargaining chip that the company I interview with will (and have) used to negotiate salary." Given that businesses usually base the salaries of new hires on their previous job, how can one arrange a fair salary if they were badly underpaid?
"I'm currently in a series of interviews with a company that I really like, the work environment, people seem young and friendly (like myself), and the business is something I wouldn't hate doing. I'm well qualified for the work, and their director already likes me. I just feel that, if I accept the position, I won't be able to bargain my way up to the market rate for the position, given it's such a leap from what I currently make. In New York, many of the companies require the disclosure of salary so just 'saying no' locks me out of a lot of potential positions."
Tell them what you want them to hear. I don't think they can really check up on these types of things.
My other car is first.
Never tell them what you currently earn. Just tell them what sort of range you're looking for. If it's the kind of organisation that's worth working for, they'll understand that this is the relevant piece of information for you to provide anyway and not even question it.
If they start trying to dig, politely decline to tell them, saying that you don't think it's relevant and/or that you feel it's inappropriate to discuss the specific details of a professional relationship with another employer. (In some places, talking about salaries is bizarrely taboo, and most businesses will respect that the same way they'd respect you if you declined to talk about specifics of previous work because of a confidentiality clause: they'd hope for the same professional conduct if you were leaving them and working for someone else.)
If they persist even then, then they're the kind of place that pays what it can get away with and not what it should pay on merit, and you probably don't want the job anyway.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Companies can call, and sometimes will, call other companies and ask about your employment with them. They will try and get as much information as possible. Some companies will reveal your salary, and if that happens you're screwed.
"I'm currently making $X, but I believe that's below the market rate for my type of work and I really am looking for more like $Y."
If $Y is a reasonable number and you stick to your guns, you can probably get them to offer it.
Alternatively, if you don't particularly care about being honest, you could always just say "I'm currently making $Y" and there will never, ever be any way they'll ever know the difference. However, I think the first approach is more straightforward and just as effective.
-- Mark
I am so very sorry for you...
The answer is quite simple. It's none of their business what you currently make. Tell them what salary it will take to get you to come to work there, and negotiate as needed. That way you get a raise, and they get a good cheap employee.
Your current (or past) employer won't (or shouldn't, anyway) disclose your salary unless they have your written permission to do so. So put down whatever you want (if you don't have the option to say "none of your business").
Tell them what you're making, and make it clear that the reason why you're looking for a new job is because you're aware that you're severely underpaid. Make it very clear that you will not accept a salary below whatever the standard is, or whatever it is that you want. You're in an advantagous position here, you already have a job and are currently well established so you can afford to be picky.
If you claim to make Windows secure, you're no doubt overpaid for misleading your employer so.
If you *actually* make Windows systems secure, you're way underpaid, and I think BillG would gladly pay you a few billion for your help.
Tell them how much you think you should earn. If they don't agree then go see what the marketplace will pay you by getting another job offer somewhere else. If you're seriously open to working at a new job then tell your employer you'll leave them and take the other job unless you get paid what you're worth, assuming you still want to work at your current employer.
Or just say, "I'd rather not say."
I was once honest, $61/hr. I didn't even get another interview. Another time, I was way too low $21,000/yr ( 1992 also honest), of course the offer was way too low - my contempories, same skills, experience, etcc... were at $31,000.
Don't listen to me, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about - I'm a shitty negotiator and I'm an AC - so, there you go.
The truth would have been that this is a marketing job. and involves little but lying.
"MORE!!!" ... and then my manager proceeded to whip me with a CAT5 cable.
I agree, you NEVER answer this question. Leave your current salary blank. The hiring process is not as collaborative as it seems, it's more like a car dealership. If an employer wants to hire someone, they offer a salary. If you are unfairly asked for salry requirements, that is a huge red flag. Google is your friend in this matter.
If you're looking for a new job because your old one isn't paying you enough, what's the problem with telling prospective employers that? When they ask why you're leaving, tell them you're looking for more opportunities to advance and don't feel you're getting that at your current position - that's code for "they aren't paying me enough." The question of how much it is will inevitably come up, as you say, so just tell them. If you think a company may screw you based on your previous salary, that's probably not a good company to join. What you want is a company that will pay you what you're "worth," and they probably have a figure in mind for your position before you even apply.
As an aside, whatever they offer you, get it in writing, and be wary of things like "Starting at 40,000, increasing up to $10,000 after 3 month review," I've gotten screwed by that type of language before. "Yeah, It's only a $2000 raise, but we did say 'up to' $10,000! (wink, wink)." I started looking for a new job that very day.
rooooar
But after 2 years with the company. What helped me was I did a lot of homework, and I was honest. Told them I liked my work, and wanted to stay with the company, but these are my personal goals.... The one that made it for me was housing - I told them one of my goals was to own my home, in the city. Gave them a realestate map with the areas of the city I liked, and the median home price in each of those areas, and then the median income I would need to get a home in each area. They decided to invest in me and my goals. I don't have a home in the historical district I really like, but I have a very nice place with a shorter commute than many of my co-workers and one of the best school districts in the area.
I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress -J Adams
A companies first offer is their lowball, god what if this sucker goes for it offer. If you are currently employed, you have no pressure, so hit them back with a counter equally far above what you want. work your way to what you want, or as close as you can get them.
I have worked with folks who took the first offer, and made WELL below me for the same work.
BTW, I'm a UNIX system administrator, who does windoze only when absolutely required.
Just three more hours seapeople and you can finally take me away from this crappy God Damned planet full of hippies
A common misunderstanding is that NOT telling them your salary helps you. I believe that is wrong. First of all, many companies will immediately shut you out for not disclosing that. It can also leave a sour taste in the interviewers mouth if you continue to resist the question. Also, it might make the employer think you got paid an embarassingly low salary, which doesn't help your cause either. I mean if you were getting paid like a champ, you'd mention your salary to make sure you can get paid even more.
You make it clear - very clear - that your current salary is too low and that is a big factor in why you are looking for a new job. Sure, you might be able to fight for a raise and get it, but it's still too low. That means their offer has to be even more than what one raise might net you. You're telling them that if they low ball you, you aren't taking their offer.
Whoever throws a number out first sets the tone. If, for example, you make $55k, but want $60k, but you make them say a number first, there are scenarios where you can end up fighting an uphill battle. What if they offer you $50k? What, suddenly you're willing to disclose your old salary and tell them their offer is too low? Then all that talk about it not being "relevant" goes out the window and you look like a fool. And now you are stuck fighting your way *up* to your goal. Instead, had you made it explicitly clear your currently salary is FAR too low, told them what it is, and asked for $65k, then you place them in the position to have to fight their way down to $60k.
If you don't tell them what your salary was up front, they won't know where you are coming from and your salary request will seem like some phantom number you got from salary.com. You want credibility? If you can't justify why you should get paid what you are worth, you don't deserve the salary anyway. Tell them what you make and make them respect what you feel you should be getting.
Most company HR departments will validate current salary level requests. Large corporations often have hotlines dedicated to this, as the information is often required when applying for a mortgage or other financing.
It's a tough spot to be in when you are asked this question. When answering, make sure that you give a figure that represents your entire package (salary, bonus, options, perks, etc) - and let them know that you're talking about an entire package. Since bonuses are often based on variable factors, it's fair for you to factor in the upper limit of your bonus potential. The message here is be honest, but also be thorough in how you detail things. Above all, be fair to yourself.
If you're good enough and an employer really wants to hire you - they'll pay what they feel you're worth to them, as opposed to just giving you a standard "raise" from where you are.
Good luck - stay confident, negotiate tough and get what you deserve!
Just say "I will consider any Resonable and Professional offer."
Remember they (their HR department) has researched the going rates for the position in your area so they know what Resonable and Professional is. And they should be offering you what you are worth to them.
I'd argue that prospective employers who are asking about your current salary are doing so because they are clueless or cheap, neither of which is good for a prospective candidate. If they're clueless then they're probably hiring because someone told them they needed an administrator, but they won't value your contributions because they don't know what it is that you really do. If they're cheap then they probably just want the least expensive candidate.
I get lots of requests for my contract programming talent, and I never respond to people who include statements like "tell us what you charge" in the initial contact. They're shopping, and it's a waste of my time to reply.
If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
Given that you did not mention asking your current employer for a raise, we can conclude that either (A) you didn't ask for a raise yet, or (B) you have been denied a raise. Let's examine these options more closely.
In the first option, we assume you have not asked for a raise. This is either (A) because you are afraid of your boss, and/or (B) you're afraid of rejection, and/or (C) because you're not confident in your abilities, and/or (D) you know you don't deserve a raise. If you deserve a raise, ask. If you don't, then you're just experiencing salary envy. Odds are slightly in favor of the fact that you do in fact deserve a raise. Getting another offer before asking your boss is an extremely passive aggressive move, and it WILL hurt you in the long run because it proves to both employers that you will stab them in the back without first confronting them about your situation. Stop being passive aggressive and just ask your boss for a damned raise already.
In the second option, we can assume that your request for a raise has been rejected. This is either because (A) your employer cannot afford to give the raise, and/or (B) you don't deserve a raise. Again, we'll assume that the odds are in favor of you deserving a raise. Experience tells us that if your employer can't afford to give a raise, then layoffs are coming and your head will be on the chopping block within a year, and you probably need to worry about getting a new job (any job) rather than getting a higher paying job. Remember: The job market gets more difficult after layoffs start because you have a lot more competition.
In both cases I assumed that you actually deserve a raise. However, it is quite possible that you do not deserve a raise (i.e. you might be a n00b that is experiencing salary envy). If that's the case, then suck it up and enjoy the good work environment as you gain experience. In three years, you will be able to easily negotiate a 50% higher salary.
In conclusion, if you haven't asked for a raise yet, do it first thing Monday. If you have asked for a raise and you've been turned down, inform your boss that you cannot continue at the current salary and that you would like to continue working there, but you will be forced to start looking for a new job if you do not get a substantial rase. Be ready to follow up on that, because odds are if he has already turned you down for a raise, nothing you say will help.
Above all: If you do not deserve a raise, DO NOT ASK. All you'll do is make it more difficult for the next guy to get what he deserves.
3 articles in a row ending in a question mark?
Cliff should try being more creative with headlines?
Not always true.
Where I work, our first offer is pretty much the amount we can pay. It doesn't necessarily reflect the total compensation package, but we don't really negotiate salary.
In IT, the scale for reward slides heavily toward those who seize their destiny.
Especially with a business such as Windows Admin, where I could come back tomorrow with a 100 resumes of kids dumb enough to do the job for nothing.
Cut the bull -- the real rewards in life go to risk takers.
Most companies I have worked at provide bonuses, RRSP matching (think 401k, only up here, where it's colder) and other compensation. I also do some work on the side.
...".
By the time I add all that stuff up and tell them that is what I am currently making, I've pretty much reached the base salary I am looking for.
The key is in how you word it. Obviously you can't say "my current base pay is", you have to say "I am currently making about
Another key is to be somewhat vague. If you are making $65k/year, say "in the high sixties, looking for something in the low seventies".
If you are very underpaid, don't be afraid to mention this to your new employers as a reason you are looking for a new job. This will ensure they offer something above what you are currently making.
Also remember that when they offer you a job, it's an offer and it's probably not final. I've never accepted the first offer and always received a better offer.
"I am a Windows Systems Administrator and work for a pretty large corporation. I know that I'm underpaid for what I do, and as such, I've been looking for another position."
So, do you work for LMIT? I am just curious as it is a small world. Lockheed Martin is the largest defense contractor, has the most money, yet low balls its workers and pays the fat cats the big salaries. LMIT had some of the best co-workers skill set wise, however, the management absolutely sucked. They got their positions and huge salaries on the basis of belonging to a retired military caste. They treated their workers like shit and then acted like they were betrayed when the workers left. Even HR was defensive of the company when I out processed. These are just some of the reasons why I left LMIT. I make over 15K more than when I left LMIT and that was only a year ago. If you don't work there now, don't jump out of the frying pan into the fire.
When I got my programming job, I remained firm the entire interview. By firm, I mean I gave direct answers. Sounded confident (HA! FOOLED THEM!), but there were no 'uhhhh. ummmm. well.... err...'s at all. When it came to it, he asked how much I want and I stated my figure with confidence. When I was hired, I actually got more than I asked for.
Also, if you dont want to give out your current salary (which you shouldnt), you could always state "I would like give you that information upon negotiating my salary". Or something to that effect.
This happened to me when I was interviewing for a job...I made a competitive salary up, but they wanted to see pay stubs. They asked for the pay stubs and cooly explained that I was currently negotiating for a raise with my former management and they had agreed to give me the raise...it just wouldn't show up in they pay stubs. I got the job anyway. However I still feel I'm underpaid. The market's good right now, I suggest taking your time, looking around and test our some "salary requirements" on prospective employers to get a taste of what you can get away with. Sites like salary.com just seem useless for this.
why run from Vincenzo?
I asusme it has to do with value and your compentance. Many IT folks who did not have their jobs outsourced to India kept making 75k a year while those who did took jobs for 25k.
many who stayed at 75k are now promoted as managers and do the hiring.
Who would you hire the one making 35k or 65k? I would assume the one making 65k was better at his or her job otherwise he or she would leave right? Of course this is not true but those who have not been outsourced it may be viewed differently.
http://saveie6.com/
If you are asked about what your salary is and you're worried about whether or not they might lowball you. Do two things:
1.) Make sure that the requirements in the job description are in fact everything that it says it is...(ie.- No additional stuff that wasn't included in the job description, such as managing additional employees, expecting to deal with issues outside of the scope of your work, etc)
2.) State what you assume the average position salary range for the job that you're applying for is. In addition, state WHERE you got that information and even better is to have the print out showing that based on the job description, this is the proper salary range. If they fail to respond to that being the case, then ask why they are offering less then the average range (and of course be polite about it.)
3.) Alternatively, if you honestly don't have the minimum skills listed as required by the job description, then the company has a legitimate reason to offer a lower amount. For example, if you don't have a minimum of 5 years experience in the field and are applying for a senior sysadmin position, then assume that the company now has a bargaining chip to negotiate salary, (because they do..)
4.) Don't lie. As a general rule, any kind of falsification of your resume are grounds for dismissal, (i.e., criminal record, fake credentials or falsified experience.) Senior class positions are usually geared towards being able to start a job on the ground floor running, with little to no training and not being able to handle the larger responsibility in a senior level position often indicate you aren't really qualified for either the position or the type of environment that the job is being offered in (for example, a senior level position in a hospital or a commercial telecom company.)
5.) Communicate. This may sound a little trite but any kind of communication whether it be personal between lovers, or professionals in the business world, is critical to a healthy relationship between the employee and employer. (Even the slashdot crowd can stand behind this, after all what is it everyone is doing right now but communicating our thoughts and ideas to each other on here via the computer?)
As a programmer fresh out of college, I took a position for a fairly low offer, because I thought the company had potential. That didn't pan out, and by the time I had 2 years experience, in spite of having received high % raises, I was roughly 20k/year underpaid given the market. So I told my employer I was underpaid, and what would they be willing to do about it. They offered 5k increase. I told them I would think about it. Next day 10k increase offered. I took a couple of interviews, and when asked, I told them what I made, and why I was looking, and that in spite of a 10k increase that my company was offering, I would still be underpaid. One company made me an offer with an increase of 25k, which was more than fair, so I took it. When I told my company I was leaving them, suddenly they had 30k to offer me, but by then they had burned their bridges with me. They pretty well fell apart within 6 months after I left, so I guess I really was valuable to them, too bad they were too stingy.
The point of my story: tell people what you want. Particularly your current employer if you are committed to leaving if they will not pay you more. Asking for a raise is one way to get one, they don't always just happen on schedule. Your story didn't make it clear if you've done this or not, and gave no evidence (other than the windows stuff) that you have other reason to want to leave them.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
Tell them your whole employment history up-front. Since you're currently under-market, you hardly have a position to negotiate from anyway. And they've certainly had plenty of their time wasted before by applicants who interviewed well but who's references didn't check out in the end.
You've stayed at that current position for several years because of the great learning environment, right? But now you're open to moving because your current employer doesn't have a path for you to grow much beyond it, or so I figure.
A business has two types of positions: those for which basic requirements or certifications are considered sufficient (you mentioned Windows System Administrator), and those for which the superior candidate will bring to the company strategic advantages (usually just sales, upper management, and sometimes development). The first get based on pay grades and local market conditions, whereas the latter are much more flexibly based mostly on how the company feels about it's profitability. I theorize that these correspond to Maslow's homeostatic and higher needs, respectively.
Get them to say the first number. You currently have stable employment, and they're probably not hoping for someone who jumps ship anytime 10% comes along either. Since you're currently under market, any offer you get may be on the low end of their grade for the position. Take it without hesitation, if it gets you into the usual market range for your skills (you already mentioned that you liked the company).
Work hard, prove yourself valuable, and you can expect to be at correspondingly competitive compensation within a couple of years.
I am a Windows Systems Administrator and work for a pretty large corporation. I know that I'm underpaid for what I do
Nobody could pay me enough to do that.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
When the interviewer asks you what you would like to be paid, tell him/her : what is the typical range they pay someone in that position at the company.
They will typically give you a range.
You should also value yourself. If you think you're worth 60k, ask for 65k.
Also don't ever settle for something low. There are always jobs to be found somewhere.
I just feel that, if I accept the position, I won't be able to bargain my way up to the market rate for the position, given it's such a leap from what I currently make.
A feeling? You're basing business decisions on a fear?
Be honest. Decide for yourself whether you release information about a business relationship you had/have with another company. Then go into your interviews knowing what you will share and how you will share it.
Don't sit around and wonder what they'll do, or what they'll think.
You are developing business relationship. Be professional. Don't go in there hoping you do everything right, and in the process spend more time worrying about doing the right thing than about presenting yourself and your skills.
I have made a few largish jumps in the past (12%, 25%, 63%). Each time I went in and told them what I liked about their company, how I believed I fit in, and the range I expected to be paid for the position. Each time I was honest without telling them my current sallary. This last time several companies turned me down primarily, I assume, because I was asking for what I was worth. Eventually I found a position that was perfect for me, and apparently perfect for them.
But then, I don't bargain. I don't do counter-offers, and I let them know up front that I'm not interested in doing so. If they don't feel like paying what I'm worth, then I'll not waste any more of my time or their time.
Your mileage may vary, and unless you have the personality that I have these tips may not work for you. But I would suggest at minimum that you treat this as a two way business relationship. They are trying to sell you on the position as much as you are trying to sell them on your skills. Don't make yourself out to be the party with less power.
"We have hundreds of applicants, what makes you so special?"
"There are hundreds of campanies I could work for. I want to work for yours. Can you say that of your other applicants?"
-Adam
Me personally? I'd hire the right person for the job, regardless of the cost. But that's not always how it works. I once worked for a company where we got to interview prospective bosses. Candidate #1 was voluntarily leaving her company after many years of service and was highly qualified for the job. Candidate #2 was laid off in a company restructuring and it would be a promotion for him if he got the job. I'll leave it up to you to figure out just who my company hired. :-(
Keep in mind, however, that many of those who kept their jobs did so because they were good at sucking up and not necessarily good at their jobs (unless sucking up was their job). Sadly, many folks got hired during the dotcom era who really only got their jobs because companies needed warm bodies to fill positions. They survived the downturn because they were politically savvy.
If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
When an employer asks you about your current salary, don't lie. Then again, you don't have to reveal it, either. Simply saying "I would require $X to accept this position" is fine. If they keep pressing you, I think it's completely valid to state that you are not comfortable talking about your current employment situation. I find this is particularly true when you are interviewing at a company that is in the same industry your current company is.
However, there is a big difference between stating something in an interview and writing it down on a job application. Saying the amount you require is different than being less than honest on an application. If a prospective employer finds that any information on an application is false, you can kiss the offer goodbye. This goes for employment history as well. On a resume, it's okay to leave off jobs you were only at for a year, or to stress jobs that link up well with the job you are trying to get. But an application is essentially an affidavit of your personal history.
All of that being said, one of the best pieces of advice I ever received was that you will never get a substantial raise at your current job. The only way to significantly increase your salary is to switch jobs. So, when you do, don't be afraid to state what you want.
It's "no one," not "noone." Who the hell is noone anyway?
a lot of potential positions ask for what you are currently making
And at least as many existing positions require you not to divulge that to anyone. So use that as a bargaining chip.
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
... it really puts a sour taste in my mouth. I have no interest in dealing with this idiotic bullshit. I'd rather pick up trash on the side of the road for a living.
I always ask for 5 to 10 K more than what I really want. I've been "talked down" a few times, but I've been getting the asking price more often than not.
'Course, being a Unix guy, I don't do Windows, so you may still be screwed.
READ THIS BOOK.d _sim_b_1/002-6822999-5302459?_encoding=UTF8&v=glan ce&n=283155
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1580083102/ref=p
It's a handbook of negotiating techniques with specific regard to salary and job prospecting.
The golden rule?
WHOEVER GOES FIRST LOSES. Don't EVER be the first to mention a number.
The book is incredible, it really is. There are at least three different techniques for dealing with the "what are you currently making" question.
If you do nothing else before you have your next interview, read the book. If it doesn't help you, I'll buy it from you. I re-read the whole thing before EVERY interview to brush up.
I don't want to seem overenthusiastic, but this is one of the few things I can say works without a doubt. It's one of the most important books I've read in my entire career.
Exactly. I do exactly the same, and I don't negotiate. I tell upfront how much I want, and tell them that I don't negotiate. They don't have to give me more, and they cannot give me less.
If they ask me why, telling me that it is the way they do hire, I tell them that negotiating my value devaluate myself. Once, when moving, I accepted a sligher lower salary (the place I moved to was way way cheaper to live in), completed by a bigger bonus. I felt miserable about it for about 10 month. Bonus was paid on end of december, I resigned 3 days before.
That was 10 years ago, and I lost 5000$. But the lesson was well learned.
Two years ago, as a the co-founder of a VC-funded startup, I've been asked to lower my salary (with the rest of the top management team). I refused ("I work 80 hours a week. If I accept a lower salary, I will feel sorry about it, and I won't be at 100% anymore. And without total commitment, I won't continue sucking my health and family life in the adventure, so you may as well look for somebody else for the position"). The rest of the top-management accepted the cut.
Today, I am the only left from that group of that mgt team.
So the advice is: "ask what you think you worth".
Unfortunately, we don't know how big is the gap between his current salary and his target salary. If it is low (say it would be a 25% raise), he should just tell what his current salary is, what he wants, and refuse to negotiate.
Now, if the gap is wider, then there is another problem: if the guy currently work of $x and thinks he's worth 2*$x, he is lying to himself, because HE SHOULD HAVE RESIGNED ALREADY.
So, in that case, he have first to build confidence in himself. It may take several job to do that, so he should probably settle for asking only a significant raise.
Any mid-to-large sized company isn't going to be broken by an IT salary. If you state politely and firmly that this is what you want and you won't accept any less, than the decision lies with them. If you don't state that up front, they'll assume there's some flexibility.
This assumes you know what you want. Many people I've interviewed don't.
The companies I've had the most trouble with are HR-driven companies. These are companies where compensation and hiring decisions come from HR. The financial industry in New York is a good example. An HR person can't tell who is talented and who isn't. All they have to go on is years of experience. The worst is when they go to those God-awful websites which say "this is how much a network administrator with 5 years of experience should make." When you tell them they're about 40% low, they'll tell you "thank you very much, goodbye."
In the Bay Area, most hiring decisions are made by the department head. This makes the most sense, as they are the only ones who can decrypt our skill set. They know how much someone who is really good is worth and, more importantly, how useless someone who isn't very good can be. Hopefully the company you're interested in works like that.
Actually I never liked that. Wage secrecy shields unreasonable wage disparity, such as based on sex, age, and familiarity.
That is to say, I never liked people choosing wage secrecy. I like them having the choice.
Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
Well, then where you work needs to re-evaluate their hiring process.
But I guess if you are offering minimum wage that doesn't offer much wiggle room.
If the culture in your area is to be open about the previous salary, then it could be difficult not to tell them. And it would not be a good idea to lie. Lies have a way to come back and haunt you at the most unexpected moment.
Don't try to fill at once this gap that you see between your salary and "the market". If you still have your job while you try to cut a deal for the new one, then a 10%-15% increase would be enough. If they seem fine with the number, try to nibble a little: more vacation time, free parking space (if you are in a crowded area), paid training.
Bottom line, don't try to stretch them too much. Leave room for your 6-month or 1-year review, when you will have a bigger value for them (if you are any good!). After 18 months or 2 years, if you have not reached a better salary, then you can move up.
lucm, indeed.
Just lie a little bit. In reality, they have no business asking, and they can't verify what you tell them. If you're honest with them, expect a salary that is not much more than what you are getting now. Salaries for what I do have been going up quite a bit over the past few years, and once you're at a place, you usually don't get big raises. So, the only way to get a big increase is leave, and tell the new employer what you are looking for, or to lie a little bit on what you are making now. If they want to hire you, they aren't going to undercut what they think your current salary is.
I interview a lot of people, and I know every single one of them lies about their current salary when that question comes up (I don't ask it, other managers do). That's fine with me. I'm a big fan of paying people what they are worth instead of undercutting them. It leads to happier employees, and more work gets done.
You can't motivate someone with more cash, but you can certainly de-motivate them with not enough. Bottom line, if you're interviewing, either lie or be straight with what you think you are worth. And if you're hiring someone, don't count pennies when making someone an offer, pay them based on their experience and what others are making in the industry.
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I'm looking for work too, and I just lie about income. Your income is too personal for your current employer to just give away and they cant ask for 'hisory' like tax returns and the likes... a sin number is the best that you have to surrender.
I went to this interview last week. They asked what I made I gave them a higher number. They tried to give me $2000 higher than what they thought I made, I said no way. So I'll end up getting paid about $6000 more than what I actually got paid.
Dont overdo it. They'll just say we'll call you and you wont hear a thing. Now for a company to pay about $5000 more to one empolyee is nothing for them, but when it goes beyond $10000 more, they'll think twice. If they try to pay you close to what youre getting now, just ask why you should take the new job anyway... in a polite way. Ask them to add incentives. This gives em the image they're getting a good deal from another company.
Heck even if I were unemployed I'd probably say I'm employed somewhere but dont contact my boss. You need to paint that image.
I have a friend who is a professional recruiter. Several years ago he told me NEVER to answer the question of how much I currently make. Instead, ask the interviewer "How much is someone with my skills worth to your company?" If they interviewer continues to pressure you to reveal your current salary, politely bid him a good day and leave.
You are under no obligation to reveal your current salary. It's even against the law for your current employer to disclose that information. The only information they can ask your current employer for is if you work there and how long you've been employed.
The reason interviewers ask this is so they can offer you just enough to make you leave your current employer even if they were planning on paying more. For example, the last time I told an interviewer what I was making, they offered me only $5,000 more. Shortly after getting the position, I found out that they had been paying the previous person, with a lesser skill set, about $20,000 more than I was making. It was while bitching to my friend that I found out about answering the "How much do you currently make?" with an answer instead of a question.
It's done wonders for my income.
If "disco" means "I learn" in Latin, does "discothèque" mean "I learn technology"?
http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/hasalary.htm
#6495ED - cornflower blue
Subject says it all. Best advice I've ever found on this issue. Don't answer, don't lie, don't play the game.
Two words, "Nondisclosure agreement".
They would want you to honor their contract just like you honor your current employers, right?
I worked at a place that insisted prior paystubs be provided for employment.
If you aren't in a critical position, then you can be easily replaced. Fortunately, I've never held a position like that. Ive been trying to get fired from my current position for 3+ years. I'm simply too lazy to quit. I feel I ought to be billing $150/hr based on knowledge and experience. Sometimes asking too little for your rate is just as bad.
Definitely don't let your girlfriend know! That usually leads to her being a wife!
Take whatever you make and add an additional 20% to it. The 20% can be justified as benefits, time off, 401k, medical/dental... etc. Also, count your Employee Stock Purchase plan because that is also a value and it is part of your compensation. Benefits count as far as compensation. Remember that. Branon
I'm not clever enough for a sig...
If anybody is still paying attention or searching archives...
:)
Without revealing my salary (I used the line "It's not allowed by my current company to discuss compensation with anybody.").
I got a 47.5% raise now over my current job.
Thanks for all your advice folks, it worked out brilliantly
The price is always right if someone else is paying.