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As do all OSes and other software.

I am sure that you or I could get it up and running in less than 30 minutes doing pretty much whatever we need it to.

Thanks for the confidence but I know Windows, and now OS X, more but there's plenty I'm not knowledgeable about with either one.

What about all the non-technical people? For them doing anything other than inserting an install CD, waiting for Auto-Play to start the installation wizard, is probably pretty difficult.

I agree however Linux is getting easier and easier to install and use software. A big problem is buying that game or productivity disk at the store. I haven't seen many stores, even chain stores, that carry much Mac software either. Many people's perception is that Microsoft is the software universe.

As for installing software in Linux, earlier I posted ClickNRun. With the client software installed, though not available for all Linux distros, all it takes to install software is access to that site and a click. Say Opera, just click on the Install button. CNR will download and install Opera. It's just as easy to uninstall software.

Given all that I can only conclude that IBM is not really targeting the whole market but a small portion of it. The poster I replied to stated this was a way to shut Microsoft out the market completely, and I just don't see how it would have that effect.

I totally agree. I've seen different theories why IBM is teaming with Ubuntu, but most are wrong. One poster said it was to sell hardware, but IBM sold the PC hardware part to a Chinese company, Levono. IBM is moving away from hardware to become a services business, they've been working on that for years. Company X wants a computer system, IBM will analyze their needs and put together a system, hardware AND software. Another company needs software to do X and IBM will put a package together.

Falcon

As do all OSes and other software.

I am sure that you or I could get it up and running in less than 30 minutes doing pretty much whatever we need it to.

Thanks for the confidence but I know Windows, and now OS X, more but there's plenty I'm not knowledgeable about with either one.

What about all the non-technical people? For them doing anything other than inserting an install CD, waiting for Auto-Play to start the installation wizard, is probably pretty difficult.

I agree however Linux is getting easier and easier to install and use software. A big problem is buying that game or productivity disk at the store. I haven't seen many stores, even chain stores, that carry much Mac software either. Many people's perception is that Microsoft is the software universe.

As for installing software in Linux, earlier I posted ClickNRun. With the client software installed, though not available for all Linux distros, all it takes to install software is access to that site and a click. Say Opera, just click on the Install button. CNR will download and install Opera. It's just as easy to uninstall software.

Given all that I can only conclude that IBM is not really targeting the whole market but a small portion of it. The poster I replied to stated this was a way to shut Microsoft out the market completely, and I just don't see how it would have that effect.

I totally agree. I've seen different theories why IBM is teaming with Ubuntu, but most are wrong. One poster said it was to sell hardware, but IBM sold the PC hardware part to a Chinese company, Levono. IBM is moving away from hardware to become a services business, they've been working on that for years. Company X wants a computer system, IBM will analyze their needs and put together a system, hardware AND software. Another company needs software to do X and IBM will put a package together.

Falcon

I'll have more hope for Linux when there is a SIMPLE repository for software the average person can visit and download and install software.

ClickNRun does most of what you ask. Once the client is installed, not yet available for all Linux distros, you can browse for software, or search for something specific and once you find what you want to install click to install. The client will download and install the program. Uninstalling is just as easy. CNR has FOSS as well as commercial/proprietary software, showing on the front page now is Parallels and CrossOver. For game lovers there are more than 1000 games, digital photography has 530, just to check two categories.

Looking through the client list though the latest Ubuntu I see supported is 8.04.

P.S - I have not had a chance to weigh in on Windows 7 yet, but if Microsoft keeps continuing pushing out shit like Vista, it will be Linux against Mac, not Linux against Microsoft.

From what I've read Windows 7 is what Vista was supposed to be, a better Windows. It's supposed to be stable and is smaller. If it weren't for the fact that Microsoft requires Activation and spyware I'd be tempted to install it on my Mac and triple boot, run Snow Leopard, Ubuntu, and Windows 7.

Falcon

I'll have more hope for Linux when there is a SIMPLE repository for software the average person can visit and download and install software.

ClickNRun does most of what you ask. Once the client is installed, not yet available for all Linux distros, you can browse for software, or search for something specific and once you find what you want to install click to install. The client will download and install the program. Uninstalling is just as easy. CNR has FOSS as well as commercial/proprietary software, showing on the front page now is Parallels and CrossOver. For game lovers there are more than 1000 games, digital photography has 530, just to check two categories.

Looking through the client list though the latest Ubuntu I see supported is 8.04.

P.S - I have not had a chance to weigh in on Windows 7 yet, but if Microsoft keeps continuing pushing out shit like Vista, it will be Linux against Mac, not Linux against Microsoft.

From what I've read Windows 7 is what Vista was supposed to be, a better Windows. It's supposed to be stable and is smaller. If it weren't for the fact that Microsoft requires Activation and spyware I'd be tempted to install it on my Mac and triple boot, run Snow Leopard, Ubuntu, and Windows 7.

Falcon

I would like to see more free as in speech but not quite bear software to help build up linux's commercial area. Although what's wrong with just making a prettier front end to the current Repos?

Perhaps it will have a nice web portal with reviews, in-depth descriptions, and decent screenshots?

In other words, what Windows users found in TuCows in 1993 and Download.com in 1996.

What MIchael Robertson was saying was absolutely essential to the mainstreaming of the Linux desktop in 2002 when he launched CNR.com. CNR (sofware)

The difference is that Robertson was a pragmatist with no interest in the geek's ideological wars over development models and licenses.

CNR would list - and sell - the proprietary - closed source - DVD player or game that would help make his product competitive.

No lectures. No hassle.

There are four long-standing problems for Linux in the home.

1 Linux arrived late to the party.

It really, really, needed to be there - and strongly positioned - before Windows 95.

2 Linux is either invisible - embedded in the cell phone or set top box - or it's the second cousin, twice removed.

The Blue Light special on Aisle 3.

3 The home is a demanding, sophisticated market.

Difficult to get a handle on.

Light years removed from the sterotype of the Windows "luser." Software Best Sellers in Home and Hobbies

4 Free is never as compelling as the geek likes to think.

That the home market is a solidly middle class market couldn't be made any plainer than this: Chief Architect Software

This is a market where ideological purity or political correctness counts for absolutely nothing.

That lesson can't be repeated more often.

You have to prove - again and again - that you offering a better product than the incumbent.

The geek will choke on this - but he has to get it down:

The OEM price of Windows is trival -
as close to free as makes no difference.

Windows is a solid, marketable, operating systems with a credible UI. It is not particularly difficult for a home user to secure - and the free tools available are more than adequate for the job.

It's all about the apps.

You have to brutally honest about what you have.

Don't try to sell The Gimp or OpenOffice as first-tier apps until they are first tier-apps.

Don't count the number of programs in your distro's repository.

Think about what is missing, what needs to be there to reach your target audience.

It can be something as basic as Print Shop.

Linspire nee Lindows did this some years ago and it is still around.

http://www.cnr.com/

A web frontend a la CNR?

There are distros that offer paid packages in their repository.

There is even at least one app store with support for both Debian-based and RPM-based distros. See cnr.com for information about Click'n'Run for example.

I prefer to buy my stuff directly from the software vendor's site if I'm buying rather than using gratis software, and I care more about what fits my needs than what is the hot trend this week. However, if you want an app store, Linux has that.

I handed them the nice little instruction book filled with pretty pics that came with the motherboard. The only question i got was "How do you tell which screws go where?"

Smart kids.

Computers really are pretty simple to work on now, most folks would just rather pay some guy like me than DIY.

I think PCs have pretty much always been easy to assemble, the hard part being drivers, which is still a problem Linux has with some hardware.

As for MSFT owning the Netbook market, is Acer and Toshiba good enough sources?

Ok, yes it's good enough. I don't keep up with the market, I have no interest in netbooks period, and didn't know what it was like.

And you cite CnR, but CnR is now owned by Xandros and the Linux community HATES Xandros

Again I was unaware. I said CNR came installed on my Linux PC, the distro installed was Linspire and they created it. And some in the community also hate Linspire. Personally I didn't know that 'til after I got it. My Windows PC I used was crapping out on me and I couldn't afford to spend much on a new PC. While looking around I saw this PC in a store selling for $250 with a $50 mail-in rebate. So I ended up buying one. Other than when the motherboard had to be replaced, it was still under warranty, I didn't have a problem with it. Well, I did. It didn't come with enough RAM or large enough an HDD so I also got more RAM and a second larger HDD. Even with those added the price was still lower than a Windows PC.

So while you got lucky that CNR came with yours I sincerely doubt you will see many main stream distros support it in the future.

There are 9 clients for different distro, two being RedHat and Ubuntu. So while distros may not include it it can be installed.

How is taking the laptop to the bozos at Geek Squad supposed to help? WTF?

WTF? is right. When did I say anything about taking the laptops to the Geek Squad? The only tyme I mentioned them was when I said I took my NT4 PC to them so they could install the Windows update Microsoft would not let me download.

Bye

Falcon

As I said in my post, yes my boys can put together theor own boxes.

But I asked if you taught them to do it?

i'm sure that SC has some geeks in Junior High and HS. Give them extra credit for spending a few hours a week pulling "shop" duty.

I've suggested this.

Look at the Netbook market. It was practically built for Linux, with its low CPU and memory resources, and yet MSFT is now totally dominating that market.

MS is? Do you have a source?

Why? Because it all comes down to the apps and ease of use. And I know the Linux fanboys will hate me for daring to say this, but Linux ain't easy.

The degree of ease of use really depends. And if all that was all then some would say Apple would dominate. If all you've ever used was Windows then using the same version will be easiest for most, but even switching from one version to another can entail retraining. Different people find different things easy. I've owned and used Linux and Windows PCs, under my desk I have two towers one with Windows NT4 and one with Linux preinstalled, well 3 really. The third has WinME but it's dead. And Macs, I'm typing this on my MacBook Pro. Linux can be such as easy as Windows or OS X. Actually the first tyme I booted up my Linux PC after I set up a user account, it asked me to set an admin then a user account, the desktop looked almost the same as a Windows desktop. It automatically detected and configured my cable access, as it did when I plugged in my external hdds. I did not have to do any configurations. And when it detected my connection it asked if I wanted to check to see if any updates were available.

And with CNR, Click N Run, it's hard to beat installing software whether productively, net, or games. Once the CNR client is installed, my Linux PC came with it installed, all you have to do is browse, look through, or search the software. And when you find one you want click the "install" button for free software, or there is paid for software you click the "Buy/install" button to get. The computer downloads and installs the software for you.

Now in this case, if the hardware is designed for Linux out of the box? Yeah it could be easy. But will it be easy to the PHB that is in charge of approving the laptops?

Notice in my post I said TFA does not say what OS is installed. As for the PHB, what PHB is in charge? This is a philanthropic organization that's providing the laptops not the government.

And is MSFT throwing in some money or hardware to ensure the correct answer is Windows?

Yea, I'd expect MS to do that.

What I do know is most education software is written for Windows, simply because it is the biggest market and you go where the money is.

This does bring up an interesting point. However as you said earlier TFA's "a hell of a lot of hot air with precious few details." They don't say what uses they will be put to. If it's so students can write papers Linux should do fine. As it would for the internet. However if they want to use educational software that teaches then they'll need Windows unless they can get others to provide programs for Linux.

most older folks are of the mindset that "computers=Windows" and it is the older folks in charge in SC that will be making the call.

Gosh, I must be ancient. The first computers I ever used were Trash, er TRS-80s, Apple II and a dumb terminal connected to an IBM System/360. In other words I recall a tyme before MS Windows was even dreamed of. And, we don't know who is in charge.

But if these machines are actually supposed to be run by the kids

Steam games

Okay, games are a weakness for Macs though there are a lot that run on them. What I find ironic is that I run into people who think Macs are only good for games.

Decent Amateur radio software and no, the software listed on http://www.machamradio.com/ is not good enough.

What about the DXZone? Things may of changed since then but years ago I knew hams who swore by Macs. I wanted to get my license myself but I had a hard tyme with Morse Code.

x11 that supports drag and drop properly, so I can use x11 applications as they should be used.

I've tried two X11 apps, CinePaint and Fink or MacPorts but I couldn't get either one to work. I may install Ubuntu on my Mac, in which case I can run CinePaint in it and use Synaptic as well as other methods to install software.

Have you checked out CNR, ClickNRun?

Stuff like fink, macports which isn't hopelessly broken

Did you try both at the same tyme? I read where you should use one OR the other as they don't play well together.

Falcon

Having just tried Linux myself, I didn't find it easy to use, simply because I didn't know how to use the CLI.

Depending on what Linux distro and how it is setup Linux can be just as easy as Windows. Years ago Linspire offered a distro that resembled Windows but was easier to use. PlugNPlay worked right out of the box, literally. I bought a new PC with Linspire preinstalled. At home I unpacked and set it up. When I booted up it automatically detected my cable modem and external hard drives. I didn't have to do anything to configure them. Once it was booted up it offered to connect to the net, download, and install updates. With CNR, ClickNRun, you simply choose what software you want to install. CNR supports both open source and proprietary programs and to install one all it takes is to click on the program. To uninstall a program is just as easy. Using Ubuntu installing programs are just about as easy. If you want to use CNR with Ubuntu there is a client you can use, it also works with a number of other Linux distros.

You can embrace OSS while still sticking with the familiar windows or macintosh environment.

I think is a better approach to introducing open source than switching to Linux. With OS X and Windows a lot of proprietary can be easily installed and used to fill gaps that open source leaves open.

Falcon

Having just tried Linux myself, I didn't find it easy to use, simply because I didn't know how to use the CLI.

Depending on what Linux distro and how it is setup Linux can be just as easy as Windows. Years ago Linspire offered a distro that resembled Windows but was easier to use. PlugNPlay worked right out of the box, literally. I bought a new PC with Linspire preinstalled. At home I unpacked and set it up. When I booted up it automatically detected my cable modem and external hard drives. I didn't have to do anything to configure them. Once it was booted up it offered to connect to the net, download, and install updates. With CNR, ClickNRun, you simply choose what software you want to install. CNR supports both open source and proprietary programs and to install one all it takes is to click on the program. To uninstall a program is just as easy. Using Ubuntu installing programs are just about as easy. If you want to use CNR with Ubuntu there is a client you can use, it also works with a number of other Linux distros.

You can embrace OSS while still sticking with the familiar windows or macintosh environment.

I think is a better approach to introducing open source than switching to Linux. With OS X and Windows a lot of proprietary can be easily installed and used to fill gaps that open source leaves open.

Falcon

I don't know, but I really believe that finding programs could be a LOT easier for new users with just a little extra care like a few screenshots and maybe have everything divided into categories like office tasks. multimedia, games, networking, etc. I know most of the folks here really hate on Xandros because of the MSFT deal, but I think there is a lot that can be learned from CnR which is now owned by Xandros. What is nice about CnR is it has BOTH the free and the pay apps with easy to read descriptions, screenshots, ratings, and an easy way to use your CC if you decide to purchase something like Crossover Pro or Cedega.

IMHO it would be a lot easier to sell Windows users on Linux if the default package managers had a nice easy to use interface like CnR. Because trying to figure out what program they need to do a task from these huge lists with sometimes extremely technical descriptions is just going to intimidate someone who is new to Linux. I know that I felt a little overwhelmed the first time I switched my laptop over to Linux with all the choices and not very helpful descriptions, and I have nearly 20 years of tech experience. I can't even imagine how lost someone who had only used Windows for simple tasks would have felt when faced with something like Synaptic.

Everything old is new again. CNR.com

I don't like Linspire, which I got preinstalled on a PC, so much as I liked the idea behind CNR, Click N Run. I got it more than 2 years ago yet CNR hasn't done much since. They were supposed to create clients for other Linux distros but all they have now is Ubuntu and one other.

Falcon

I'm honestly not sure why CNR hasn't done better (which is to say, generate any noticeable use). It's free-as-in-beer, supports several major distros in a central location, offers social features such as reviews and ratings, allows grouping of apps into "aisles" for easy one-click installation and sharing, handles commercial software sales as well as free software installation compatibly and rather efficiently, and generally provides a rather nice experience.

Why has it wilted like a Friendster? Because it's not free-as-in-speech? Is Applications -> Add / Remove or Synaptic simply "good enough"? Do enough Linux users really object to their Microsoft deal and abstain on moral grounds?

Of course, I don't use it personally. And I'm not sure why. Would a FOSS version by a more credible member of the community generate more interest and enjoy some success?

I am former Linspire user, now I use Freespire.
You can see a picture of me using Linspire here:
http://www.linspire.com/lraiser_success.php?serial=318
(rather old picture anyway).
My main cmoputer iss an HP Pavilion dv 5000 laptop. Ubuntu prior 8.04 didn't recognize the wifi card (unless you do extensive hacking, to have a sub-standart result). With Freespire it works "out of the box" (using NDISwrapper). Everything work very easy, even easier than Ubuntu (my wife machine, a Sony VAIO VGN-CR220E, uses Ubuntu).
But I tried the 8.04 liveCD in my HP and a wizard downloaded the driver for my wifi, so there is no need to keep on using Freespire, but I didn't found time to make the change, yet.
CNR is a big selling point of Freespire/Linspire, but it will be available to Ubuntu AFAIK. (see http://www.cnr.com./
Freespire were releasing several products every month at the beginning, but now they are somehow without to much activity.
If you value your time, Linspire is not a bad choice.

The OEM Linspire PC could be found at Walmart.

Linspire carried the torch for OEM Linux - Linux as a direct competitor to Windows in the consumer market.

Linspire irritated the FOSS purist because it believed the installed and licensed proprietary media codec and player was essential to delivering a commercially viable product.

It sold commercial software through its CNR repository.

Bitstrean fonts. DVD players. Games like Postal.

To this day, Walmart and Consumer Reports find it necessary to publish a disclaimer whenever they expose a newcomer to OEM Linux:

This is a Linux based PC and will not perform completely like a Windows based machine. It can perform basic activities such as E-mail, Web Browsing, Music and Pictures.

To this day, the mass-market Linux PC remains firmly anchored among the bottom-feeders. To this day. Linux hasn't broken through to a 1% share on the consumer desktop. Operating System Market Share

The second platform for the Windows developer is the XBox 360 - and the cross-platform toolkit is sitting there in front of him

The Mac port can be outsourced.

The OEM Linux PC is typically presented as an entry-level system with bottom feeder specs.

The games in the CNR repository make that plain enough.

It's the rare Linux developer who competes directly against the Sims or Bioshock on the PC.

He's far more likely to be producing content that wouldn't look out of place on Shockwave.com or the download arcade on the console.

XBox Live!

CNR- with its roots in Linspire - has the right idea.

But I tend to use it as a reality check and on that level it can be depressing. "The Year of Linux" software looks like a shareware catalog from 1992.

CNR lists 23 commercial "games," only three of which are worth even passing notice: Postal 2, Flight Gear, and Bridge Construction Set.

Ask "most users" how to make a DVD on your mac that just plays in a loop and they'll be dumbfounded, because it's not obvious (well, it wasn't in the idvd in 10.4... times may have changed, sorry) and users are allergic to help files.

I don't know how to make a DVD either, except maybe to drag and drop. I haven't needed to it yet but I can look it up. Right now though I am copying documents to an external HDD as a backup.

Major refinements to gnome-app-install and the inclusion of the new network manager would do a lot of what is wrong, though. Hopefully that stuff will come in Intrepid.

Check out CNR, Click N Run. They have an app, compatible with Ubunutu, that allows software to be installed by simply clicking and running. It can also update software or uninstall it.

You mean like cnr.com?

So... apt-get is too "command line," synaptic surely must be close to what you're looking for. If not, there's always Click-n-Run. By the way, the Linux kernel has always had "native support" for such an install system (all that is required is for the kernel to be able to read and write files.) The problem is nobody wrote such a program for several years. Many Linux distributions have avoided "dependency hell" (the problem you are describing) since I started using Linux around 2002.

If you have Linux, goto http://www.cnr.com. In addition to the usual Linux games for Linspire/Ubuntu, they have a ton of links to Linux friendly web games. One of my girls favourites is http://www.clubpenguin.com, which ironically does not have anything to do with Linux, but runs fine on it.

Not exactly. They also care about ease of use, and Linux is not, nor has it ever been, easy.

That depends on the distro. More than a year ago I bought a new PC with Linspire preinstalled. After setting it up I booted it and when the desktop was ready it looked like Windows. It was pretty easy to use. Heck, to connect to the internet all I had to do was connect the PC to my router. Linspire automatically configured the connection. I even got a pop up saying updates were available and did I want to download them. And now with Linspire's, Click N Run, CNR, that's all that's needed to install software, a simply click. After locating what you want to download and install. Not only that, but CNR allows people to download legal media codecs. Some have to be paid for but they are legal.

I was helping a friend debug a problem a couple of weeks ago and logged into her machine and thought "Hey, I don't have ccache or Valgrind." Fortunately I had sudo access.

I'm sure it's not too much bother to remember ccache.samba.org or valgrind.org, but I didn't even have to remember that much.

Though I know a little about Linux I know nothing about most of these. I know sudo allows the user to switch to superuser and that samba is something like Windows file sharing protocol but ccache and all the others I have no idea what they are. How is anyone who knows nothing about them or Linux supposed to be able to install software in Linux? As it is now the Mac offers the easiest method for computer users to install software. Linspire's Click N Run, CNR, may change that seeing as how all it requires, other than net access, is to click to install programs. CNR doesn't work with many Linux distros though. It only works, in beta, with Freespire/Linspire, Debian, Fedora, openSuse, and Ubuntu. However Version Tracker offers something similar for Macs, as does Fink and MacPorts.

* Application bundles - drag and drop install, removal. Ability to drag an .app to anywhere in the file system at any time. App resources all contained in the .app directory structure instead of scattered all over the file system

Try this web site to see if they have it available for your distro of choice.

In most cases, publishers of proprietary video provide such video to the end user in a format subject to codec patents and digital restrictions management. How can any OEM finance the emigration of customers from countries where patents and/or circumvention laws prohibit the use of such video with free software?

Though many Linux, /.ers may not like it Linspire has already opened that gate. Linspire has licensed proprietary codecs for Linspire Linux. If not already installed these codecs can be installed in Linspire using Click N Run, CNR. For other Linux distros Linspire is porting CNR. These are the distros CNR will support:

• Debian
• Fedora
• Freespire 1.0, 2.0
• Linspire 5.0, 5.1, 6.0
• OpenSUSE
• Ubuntu 7.04

This is what CNR says about codecs and proprietary drivers:

"Will proprietary codecs and drivers be available at CNR.com?"
"Yes. Using CNR.com, you will now be able to safely and legally add support to your Linux desktop for things such as mp3, Windows Media, Quick Time, Java, Flash, ATI drivers, nVidia drivers, and so on."

Actually instead of working on a Linux distro perhaps Linspire should work on making codecs, drivers, and software available for Linux.

what is Dell supposed to do?

Pay for the codecs. There are legal options.

Actually, the only thing holding me back from switching to Linux completely is the horrible and useless installation of new apps. Why can't Linux work like Windows - download a setup file, run it and it's there....

Ah but you can install software in Linux by just downloading and running it. I don't really know much about Linux but I know there's apt-get and rpm among others. And Linspire has CNR for Linspire Linux and they are porting it for other Linux distros. CNR allow you to select those programs you want then click a button to install them all. Uninstalling just another click.

if you don't like it, you choose "Uninstall".

Haha, I've uninstalled a lot of programs in Windows and they almost always leave junk, especially in the registry which can make it unstable. I've even had to manually uninstall software because there wasn't an uninstall and Windows Add/Remove couldn't uninstall.

I descended into dependency hell

And Windows doesn't, didn't, have DLL hell?

1. Just download the codecs... automatix does it as a GUI. It may be illegal, but it works.

CNR lets you install different codecs legally and it works with Ubuntu.

I use Ubuntu 7.04 at work and home exclusively and I can play most Windows Media files.

Have you looked into using Click N Run, CNR. It allows you to install proprietary media players and other software on Linux. Originally it was just for Linspire but now it support other Linux distros like Ubuntu. The FAQ tells you more about it.

I use Ubuntu 7.04 at work and home exclusively and I can play most Windows Media files.

Have you looked into using Click N Run, CNR. It allows you to install proprietary media players and other software on Linux. Originally it was just for Linspire but now it support other Linux distros like Ubuntu. The FAQ tells you more about it.

It seems to me that what you are saying is that you want something that has all the benefits of centralized packaging, but without a centralized packager. You want third-parties to be able to distribute apps as they please, without submitting them to a centralized packager, yet you want the centralized packager to work with those apps and keep them up-to-date. That sounds impossible to me, so I'd look forward to seeing anything that comes close to your ideal.

The closest I can think of is the proposed new CNR service from Linspire, which would work with many distros:

http://www.cnr.com/faq.html

But even that still has a centralized repository. How do you suggest that we have something that acts like a centralized packager without actually being centralized?

Linspire has a legal license to distribute DVD playback software. Their Click-And-Run thing, when launched, will allow for it to be "legitimately" downloaded on multiple distributions (debian fedora freespire linspire opensuse ubuntu is what their page shows).
Enjoy.

Do they do their own upgrades? What do they do when their libraries get corrupt? Do they ask you to install tarballs and RPMs for them or are they able to do that themselves? I set people up with Linux as well, and then I have to fix corrupt libraries, install new programs for them, compile and make programs from source code, etc.

I'll bet you just configured their Linux for them, installed the programs they needed, ran updated and then left them unable to install programs or run updates and force them to just use the software you installed. Until they are able to do all of that by themselves, Linux is not as easy to use or install as Windows apparently is, until it is easy enough that the average person can do what you did for them, without needing a Linux expert to work for them.

Linspire is trying to make Linux easier to update, install, and repair programs and libraries with the Click N Run software for many Linux distros to add in that Windows Update type easy to use feature that Linux lacks.

Will I break anything if I sometimes use CNR and at other times use other install systems such as apt-get or YAST?

You shouldn't, provided you only pull from the same version repository when using either CNR or the other method. CNR does have several additional safeguards that other install technologies do not have to automatically correct dependency problems, but as long as you are using the same version repository, you should be able to install using both CNR and other install systems. However, if you mix repositories (pulling from other versions of your distributions), then you do run the risk of creating dependency problems within your system. Rather than having to pull from multiple warehouse pools, it is our desire to have as much current software in the CNR Warehouse pools as possible, so the need to go outside these pools is minimized, thereby reducing the risk of breaking your system

Agreed! Especially for photographers, serious amateurs and pros. When GIMP offers at least 12 bit colour depth then it may be a good cheap, free, replacement for Photoshop.

If you want to take on photoshop... You have to get serious. Its not that hard to make a better app than photoshop. Painter and Alias Sketchbook pro both feature things that make photoshop seem primative....

Are Painter and Alias really good photo editors, better than PS? I'm hoping to break into photography but as I'm on disability and don't work I can't justify the expense of PS. So I've been considering other programs like Painter, Blender, Xara Xtreme, Inkscape, or ImageMagick. I'm hoping to get a Macbook Pro rsn and when I do I've give them a test drive.

Last time i ran linux.. the whole dependency thing drove me mad and installing things were varied experiences.

Linspire is coming out with ports for different distros of linux for Click N Run or CNR. Installing software with it means there's no dependencies to deal with, CNR takes care of installing software. Once the CNR software is installed the user goes to the CNR software warehouse, choose what software they want, then click the install button. CNR downloads and installs the software, if there are any dependencies it takes care of them. Linux geeks may frown on such things, but they have to realize that if they want the average computer user to use Linux then there has to be an easy way for users to install apps.

In my view, these are the features of the mythical desktop-distro-for-the-masses:

1. It has to be available in stores. Joe Bloggs wants to just go and buy it. A net install would also be necessary of course. The installation must be as automatic as possible, it must ask the minimum number of questions as it can.

Joe Bloggs doesn't want to go into a store to buy a Linux distro, he wants to buy a computer with an OS already installed.

2. Remove choices. Yes. REMOVE choices. Have the distro setup so that it has one carefully selected instance of each software type you need, one word processor, one spreadsheet, one database, one graphics package... Everything is installed, there is no asking "do you want", it is there in your "start menu" from the get-go. When Joe decides one Sunday afternoon to make a movie... "Start > Movies > Movie Maker".

I'm not sure about removing choices but having an app for each use yes, and Linspire Linux, Debian based, does this. When you bootup it even looks kind of like Windows, and you click on "start", er "launch" button, as there's the menu for programs.

3. In the start menu it's not "GIMP" it's "Image Editor".

"Paint program" in Linspire.

In the software repository (Debian based naturally), again, remove choices. People don't want 20 different examples of a web browser, they want 1 which has been carefully chosen as "the best". And installing software from the repository should be seamless, I'd go so far as to make it as easy as selecting "Start > Games > Tetris" and it installs from the repository if it's not already there. Do away with package management interfaces,

Linspire has a software warehouse, CNR, which they ar in the process of offering to other Linux distros wherein a person can select programs to install then click on the install button after which they ar downloaded and installed without having to worry about dependencies or anything else. If the user doesn't like a program it's just anothe rclick to uninstall the program.

Joe Bloggs down the road doesn't WANT all that stuff. They want to do a job, they want the computer to just get out of the way and let him do the job, they want the computer to help him, not to make him jump through hoops to tell the computer exactly how to do such and such.

That's a bit of a contradiction isn't it? If Joe Bloggs doesn't want to jump through hoops then why is he using Windows which requires a bunch of jumps? And that's if he's lucky and it doesn't crapout on him. Tyme will only tell if Vista is good and stable.

Last time I checked, it was still impossible to (legally) play DVD's under Linux (without cracking the DRM, that is), never mind playing DVD's from different regions, like, in my case, the US...

if you aren't using your distribution's repositories then you aren't using that distribution.

According to TFA, CNR uses the distro's repository. There's a flowchart which shows CNR merging the standard Ubuntu repository with CNR's repository of Linspire and third-party software, then publishing the whole through CNR. If I'm reading he runes a-right, using CNR to install software that is also available straight from Ubuntu will actually get you the Ubuntu package.

To put this in perspective, a few years back, Red Hat users could download packages from Red Hat and install them manually, or use up2date, or install a third-party package manager like Red Carpet, yum, or apt. Those third-party programs would retrieve software from a repository which contained all the Red Hat RPMs and could connect to additional repositories that had more software.

This version of CNR looks like the equivalent of using yum or apt with freshrpms to supplement a RHL installation.

How does CNR.com works with other Linux Distributions?