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orry for the delayed reply, been very busy.

No worries! I'm much the same...

I wish I could find a screenshot of what you are talking about with KDE's "Panels".

BTW, I noticed you other Post about trying to get KDE to Compile under OS X, and I must say, it seems you are REALLY Swimming Upstream here. I mean, I find TONS of references and even solutions for making KDE Look and even Act like OS X; but really nothing on making OS X look and act like KDE. JUS' sayin'... ;-) but, hey, there isn't anything wrong with swimming upstream: You want what you want. I get that.

Having said that, were you planning on having separate SPACES on each Monitor, or simply having an "Extended Desktop" across both monitors?

I have just done a little more research; but here are a few things you might like. Don't take this as "my final answer"; but rather a few more things to check out along the way, ok?:

If you really like that Win 7-esque "Start Menu and Taskbar" look, this is your guy (if it has proper Multimonitor/Multi-Space support). It looks like it emulates the Taskbar's "Each Document Has An Icon" thing, too.

Also, Did you look at this thing for Focus-Follows-Mouse? You mentioned trying a Terminal Command; but the thread that talked about those said that the Codetek thing I linked here was "the only thing that really worked".

I think that Focus-Folliws-Mouse thing, along with this Menubar-Per-Window thing would get around your objection to OS X's Single Menubar.

A couple of well-liked Alternatives to the Dock I found:

Dock-It. And DragThing.

One thing is for sure, you CANNOT just disable the OS X Dock. It is actually responsible for some stuff you (and the OS) don't want to do without. But with a couple of Terminal commands, you CAN make it really, really tiny, and auto-hide it with a really long time-before-unhide. So, essentially, you can get rid of it for all intents and purposes.

I am writing this from a laptop running Kubuntu 16.04 and while there are things which I find inconvenient/annoying, I am generally pretty happy with the overall experience. I am not trying to troll you but I like my computer's environment set a particular way and I am actually genuinely interested in knowing if the OSX GUI can now support my workflow instead of me having to adapt so here goes; I use a multi-monitor setup with a panel on both screens, each of the panels has its own Application launcher, taskbar (which shows only applications from the screen the panel is on and does not autosort/group applications) and a notifications tray and I like to use focus-follows-mouse instead of click-to-focus. Last time I checked (with Yosemite, a friend let me keep their old Mac Book Pro for a month to play with), OSX wouldn't let me do either of these things (I could not get the dock to show up on both screens or get it to not group windows of the same application together and even when i eventually managed to get focus-follows-mouse working, the unified toolbar (which I couldn't switch off) made it nearly impossible to use). I realise someone somewhere might think that the interface of OS X is perfect but as far as I am concerned, I could not see myself using it in it's default configuration and since I couldn't modify it either, I didn't really see the point of getting a Mac if I was going to install Kubuntu on it at the end of the day anyway.

Ok, let's tackle these one-at-a-time. If I misunderstand, let me know and I will try to realign my thinking... I am not an expert in all things regarding multiple desktops and docks; but I might be able to help.

Keep in mind that no OS has everything; but the question is, can you "get there". And I think that the answer in your case is "Yes".

1. Multiple Docks. I am not sure if any of these might help; but there sure are a LOT of choices!

2. Multiple Desktops (Spaces). Again, not sure if any of these will fit the bill; but again, there are a LOT of options...

2a. Windows Grouped by Application, and "multiple displays have separate Spaces". I found this when looking for a way to have Multiple Menubars (see #4, below). It might help with some of your Window Grouping.

3. Focus-follows-mouse. Well, there are a few "terminal" solutions. The best one (CodeTek VirtualDesktop Pro) seems to cost $40 though. If you don't like any of that, try this Google Search.

4. Unified "Toolbar" (MenuBar?). Hmmm. If the "Displays have Separate Spaces" setting won't do what you want, there are a few other options. This one might be the best overall solution. It's $15, but allows you to do several cute things with MenubarS (plural!).

Or you can always whip out XCode and create your own haxie/extension!

I've never used it (don't like focus-follows-mouse), but there's VirtualDesktop Pro, which apparently does focus follow mouse, and the feature list claims it can do so without automatically raising the window. It isn't free, but apparently there are options.

For Terminal and X11, you don't even need a tool.

To turn it on in Terminal, type the following into the Terminal:
defaults write com.apple.Terminal FocusFollowsMouse -string YES

For X11:
defaults write com.apple.x11 wm_ffm true

I'm guessing this is where most people want FFM (any maybe for text editors).

I'm not sure there's a free app which provides focus follows mouse (I think one exists, but as I don't use it myself, I can't remember where I saw it). Another non-free tool which supports focus follows mouse is CodeTek VirtualDesktop:
http://www.codetek.com/ctvd/

Earlier versions of Mac OS X supported the behaviour out of the box, but Apple removed the option, unfortunately.

The easiest solution would be to just buy MondoMouse.

point 3: echo "set completion-ignore-case On" >> ~/.inputrc i use this on every *nix machine, makes typing file names on case sensitive file systems less of a pita

Of course none of this is practical on windows or mac where the window managers both suck.

I was quite fond of CodeTek's Virtual Desktop. http://codetek.com/ctvd/ It made me feel right at home when jumping between my Linux desktop and the Mac. Lots of real-estate, some nice customization features, and mouse focus behavior I preferred to OS X's. Sadly, the application hasn't been properly supported for a while. It does work, mostly, but isn't as flawless as it once was. I recently had to turn it off because of some misbehaviors with Firefox.

I'll save him the trouble:
VirtueDesktops (free, built off Desktop Manager below)
CodeTek Virtual Desktop Pro ($40)
Desktop Manager (free, no longer in development?)

Though the virtual Desktops in Leopard look to be far more elegant.

I played with VirtualDesktop Pro for a bit. Does what it says. There is also a free beta program called Desktop manager that looks promising.

GUI functions like virtual desktops

I've done virtual desktops, but personally, I found them less productive than productive. It always annoyed me that when I wanted to do a DND on something or that window was "all the way over there", and I had to either go and make it "omni-present" or scoot it over to where the other app is or whatnot. I find multiple real screens better than virtual desktops. Also, there are 3rd party things you can get for OS X to add virtual desktops to the system. http://www.codetek.com/ has one, and there are many others. For most users, they are a source of confusion and loss of productivity, but they have been around for many years, so get one if you want one.

window shading

I like window shading as well. Its more handy and intuitive than minimizing a window, so I bought Window Shade X, and it works like a charm.

a dock that doesn't try to be everything else too, or failing that, will at least go away

The dock is OK, but I'm happier when I can't see it or just don't use it. I only have a couple of icons in it and only use it to launch a handful of apps when I reboot or login or something. I much prefer Quicksilver for launching apps. To start up X11, I hit Apple-space, type x, hit return. I don't know of a faster or easier way to launch an app than that.

a theme that doesn't include stupid glowing gumdrops everywhere

Yeah, the gumdrops are silly. I'll admit. That is why I paid for ShapeShifter. Personally, I use a brushed metal theme so that all apps look the same, and no gumdrops required. I find it very aesthetically pleasing.

file manager that doesn't INSIST on blocking up with a spinning beach ball while it calls the server EVERY SINGLE TIME the cursor rests on a video file quicktime doesn't have a codec for

Yes, the Finder sucks at times. It is essentially unusable in Tiger when viewing files in list view, which is almost exclusively how I view files because I have so many in each folder. Fortunately, I don't use it that much, and would like for a better alternative. Suggestions?? Quicktime is bullshit, and I wish it would die a silent death and never come back to life. I'm going to get flamed for this, but I have never worked with such a resource hog, nagware by default player, non-codec supporting, unable to stream worth a shit... I could go on. I've tried to ignore Quicktime for years but it keeps coming back.

It's a step up from Windows, but then again, anything is. It's an obvious step backwards from either OS9 or a decently configured X11 system.

Yes, its about 10 years ahead of Windows. I could not use OS 7, 8, or 9 because the underlying OS was too unstable, so I never got to appreciate the GUI. I used X exclusively for years, and it was OK for the time. I used OpenLook, TWM, FVWM, AfterStep (how I found chips-n-dips -> slashdot :), and then settled with WindowMaker. I hacked WindowMaker (or is it two words now), to add functionality that I missed from either AfterStep or FVWM. KDE and Gnome simply do not cut it. If I wanted a less than functional Windows knockoff, I would just settle for Windows. I'm a UNIX/Linux admin, and support both Solaris and Linux systems with CDE, KDE, and Gnome. KDE seems to be the better of the mix, but Gnome has its perks, but neither are something I would want to spend more than 1/2 an hour in front of, if that. Even though X support on Macs is not the best, its still better for me than any exclusive X desktop.

Alright flameboy.

Your arguments against the Mac UI are purely personal preference. You like blue better than red, you like menu bars on bottom, you like 28 virtual desktops... who cares. It's your decision.

Sorry, but screwing around with the "look and feel" of my desktop just isn't something I have time for; if that's really important to you, then you may be able to think hard enough to find applications that do the things you've said you "can't" do.

Keep trying to figure out the best "look and feel" for your desktop. The rest of us just have better things to do.

So use virtual desktops:

Codetek Virtual Desktop Pro. I've moved beyond virtual desktops myself. I used to be incredible anal about my virtual desktops going so far as to label them by program type or even by program. When I switched to OS X from Linux two years ago I was annoyed by the lack of virtual desktops and focus follows mouse, but now with expose and the dock I find virtual desktops clunky and hard to use.

These guys have a virtual desktop that I've been using for a couple of years. It's probably the best virtual desktop I've ever used. If you have two screens, you can even designate one to never switch, the only switching that happens is on your other display. Handy if you have something you want displayed at all times. I usually use it for my mail and IM.

Kicks the crap out of Desktop Manager.

Yes, it does cost $20-$40. But if free software isn't a religious issue for you, and you use your computer anywhere near as much as I use mine, it's unquestionably worthwhile. I think the unlicensed version is limited to two desktops, so you can try it out and see how you like it before paying for full functionality.

(Astute readers may notice that I've plugged this product on apple.slashdot discussions before. No, I'm not a shill for the company; I just really really like the product, and it's hard to not mention it when someone's asking for exactly what it does.)

...or having sloppy focus... Or proper virtual desktops...

(Yeah, it costs a few bucks. If the whole notion of paying money for software isn't antithetical to your religion, then the amount of time you spend using it will make the price completely negligible.)

I must say, I've never quite got used to virtual desktops. I know they work well for those that use them, but for normal users they would be, quite simply, too confusing. I don't count myself as a "normal user", but even so, I've managed fine for ten years or so without them, and the last three - on the Mac - have been by far the most efficient, especially now that I use Command+H. Exposé has its uses too, of course.

That said, there are plenty of utilities for the Mac that do virtual desktopping, such as CodeTek VirtualDesktop Pro and Desktop Manager, the latter being open source too! So you can get that virtual deskopping buzz even on the Mac...

iqu :)

They are all very decent, but the first one -- Desktop Manager -- is by far my favorite. My only beef being that you cannot (yet) move a window from one desktop to another by dragging it in the panel - though it does have quick-key configuration to move windows via the keyboard.

Virtual Desktop Pro is very nice as well, though not free.

Virtue is similar to Desktop Manager, but it seems a lot more buggy to me - I can't get the pager to show up for some reason. I haven't tried the other two yet, mostly because Desktop Manager does such a good job.

Hope that helps.

"Now, if you said you prefer virtual desktops, as is implemented in most Linux GUIs, then I would understand."

Desktop Manager Alt

Virtue Alt

Virtual Desktop Pro Alt

Virtual Desktop Alt (not the same product as above)

You Control: Desktops Alt

Virtual Screens Alt (not quite a VDM, but it works)

is there any way to do this with OS X?

Yes. Try out CodeTek Virtual Desktop... not only will it give you virtual desktops, more than you can shake a stick at... but it also gives you the option of 'Focus-Follows-Mouse'... check it out here:

http://codetek.com/ctvd/

There are two virtual desktops for Mac OS X:

1. VirtualDesktop

2. Desktop Manager

Also, Panther's worth updating to, not just for Exposé, it has many under the hood enhancements.

The most interesting part is the images. There you can actually see the Gnome logo. (There is an extra karma bunus for the first who find the KDE logo;)

Listen, I hate MS as much as the next guy -- but did you read the rest of the patent? In the "BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE DRAWINGS" section, it reads:

[0013] FIG. 1A [referring to the KDE front panel] is a pictorial diagram illustrating a desktop of a graphical user interface according to the prior art.

[0014] FIG. 1B [referring to the Gnome front panel] is a pictorial diagram illustrating one implementation of a panel containing a desk guide used to switch among multiple virtual desktop according to the prior art.

In the "BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION" section, it points out that in KDE, the pager doesn't show you the pictures of the desktops: "As more and more application windows 102 are dispersed throughout these virtual desktops, it may be difficult for a user to remember which desktop contains which application window." You have to click on each desktop until you find it.

For the GNOME pager, it says that "running application windows appear as small, raised squares... it is still not possible for a user to determine from these small raised squares the desired application window for which he may be looking"

The patent is apparently for MS's improvment of the concept by actually showing small recognizable representations of each desktop in a "preview" pane that shows all the desktops, and for being able to transfer application windows from a different virtual desktop to the current one, without actually bringing up the other desktop.

Ok, /.'ers -- can you think of prior art for this? Codetek's Virual Desktop is similar, but it uses application icons to represent windows, instead of shrunken pictures of the actual windows. However, from this FAQ, it appears the Codetek has at least tried to show shruken pictures in their pager, and found it was too processor intensive.

Codetek Virtual Desktop provides the focus-follows-mouse feature. I believe the free demo version on their site allows you to use that feature without paying anything. It only gives two virtual desktops, but that doesn't sound like too much of a problem for you.

I've been extremely happy with CodeTek Virtual Desktop.

There's a similar setting for terminal, and probably other native applications.

I have yet to see any evidence that this is possible for J. Random Aqua App without buying additional 3rd-party software, and believe me, I've been looking on and off for the last month and a half.

My Mac laptop sees less use than either of my Linux desktops (at home and at work) for precisely this reason -- I've been using focus-follows-mouse for so long that it's very painful for me to go back to click-to-focus. The only general purpose solution I've seen for this is Virtual Desktop Pro, and I haven't gotten around to buying it because part of me has a hard time paying US$40 for two things (virtual desktops and focus-follows-mouse) that I've had on Linux for free for nigh unto ten years...

--Troy

I actually did the patent search originally because CodeTek claims that their VirtualDesktop product is "patent pending". Don't get me wrong -- I love CTVD and consider it necessary for my daily work on Mac OS X. But patent pending? It doesn't matter if it's M$ doing it or poor little CodeTek.... That said, I could not find any application attributed to CodeTek. Hmm....

I actually did the patent search originally because CodeTek claims that their VirtualDesktop product is "patent pending". Don't get me wrong -- I love CTVD and consider it necessary for my daily work on Mac OS X. But patent pending? It doesn't matter if it's M$ doing it or poor little CodeTek.... That said, I could not find any application attributed to CodeTek. Hmm....

You can get a third party app called Virtual Desktop make by Codtek Studios.

Codtek Virtual Desktop

There are rumours that a future version of Mac OS X will have virtual desktops. For example, see this AppleInsider article.

As mentioned in the article, Panther already has an early iteration of this functionality, but it's currently very buggy and only spawns one extra desktop. The article describes how to activate this feature, right now, for those that can't wait for Apple to officially implement it in a future OS revision. We probably won't have to wait very long for that, though, because Apple is probably aware of the popularity of CodeTek's VirtualDesktop and they'll want to jump on that bandwagon as soon as possible.

D.

I agree with you on the focus-follows-mouse, and when I got the Mac, I switched my Linux boxes to click-to-focus, just to be a little consistent.

However, if you want to try multi-desktops on a Mac, take a look at CodeTek's VirtualDesktop. I love it, but I find that with Expose, I use it much less than I used to. Expose makes my 1024x768 desktop seem much bigger.

Here are a few options:

Desktop Manager GPL
CodeTek Shareware, $30.00
Space.app QPL

Have fun-

I'm another former Linux-on-the-desktop guy who switched to OSX about a year ago. I never want to go back...I just got my Dual 2GHz G5 yesterday, and it is GLORIOUS. That said, I LOVED my virtual desktops from Linux, so paid $30 for CodeTek Virtual Desktop. It's a really good app, and I'm very happy with it, but, really, this is something that should have been included out of the box. Who the hell could stand to only have one desktop? It feels like trying to work inside of a cardboard box. I gotta have space :)

Me too. I've been a Linux user for years. I took a job at a prepress company last year, and now have a TiBook running Jaguar on my desk. OS X is okay, but it needs virtual desktops, badly.

I have a dual head setup with an external monitor and the laptop's LCD screen. I frequently have both screens covered with windows, and can't find what I want. Maybe Panther will fix this with Expose, but it's not the same as virtual desktops.

Does anybody know of decent virtual desktop software for Mac OS X?

I've tried this but it's not really virtual desktops, it's more of a kludge that uses "Hide Application" to simulate them. (Or at least it was, it's been a few months since I tried it.) It also has that gigantic desktop switcher box that uses up my precious screen real-estate.

I sure would like to find one that works like the traditional X11 notion of virtual desktops.

Death to obvious little shareware apps. CodeTek, you're next.

I'm just wondering if using Expose is that much different...

If your gonna take it to class, do go for the 15". If you need screen realestate on it, get a virtual desktop app installed...

With regards to the processor speed, its such a small bump that it doesnt really matter as the HDD would be the bigger bottleneck. Instead of the 17" I suggest you take the 15" and upgrade the HDD to a 5400rpm instead of the default 4200rpm, that would make somewhat of a bigger overall speed increase that going with the 17" and you save roughly $345. (HDD $125, VirtualDesktop $30)

Ohh, and get the Apple Student discount while your at it...

There is a third party utility for OS X that will give you virtual desktops. It's called CodeTek VirtualDesktop and is pretty good. It lets me have autofocus and autoraise as well. The full version costs $30 but the unregistered version is just enough to make things workable. You only get two virtual desktops if you don't register.

If the lack of virtual desktops is such a big problem, perhaps you should check out CodeTek's Virtual Desktop software. That should do what you need.

Interesting question, and one that occured to me while taking notes for the review. My favorite third-party utility would have to be Key Xing - it's shareware, not freeware, but it allows you to set your own keyboard shortcuts for obvious things (like applications) and less obvious things (like copying full file paths from the Finder). Perhaps the only drawback is that I'm now so used to my own commands that I find myself using them on other people's Macs.

A close second would be CodeTek Virtual Desktop, which also isn't free but does a much better job of implementing virtual desktops in OS X than any of the free options I've tried. Of course, the best of all would be if this functionality were included in the OS. Maybe it will be someday - remember when iTunes was still SoundJam?

Focus follows mouse? Just use CodeTek Virtual Desktop

My CodeTek VirtualDesk seems to work just fine too.

-S

Check out the virtual desktop from codetek
It has focus follows mouse as wel as the ability to have a pager window (think fvwm from linux days). And no, I don't work there, I just happen to really like the product and have been very impressed with their support and bug fixes.

It ain't free but it rocks like Gilbralter

AND IT HAS Focus Follows Mouse!

My life is complete
Check it out here

Just grab yourself a copy of CodeTek Virtual Desktop for OSX: it provides an option for focus-follows-mouse.

Codetek Virtual Desktop.

Regarding the VWM and Space: you might want to check out Virtual Desktop . Its not free in any sense (except for a trial/limited functionality version - 2 desktops only) but seems to be worth the price compared to what Space offers for free. Of course, when space gets a few versions older, Virtual Desktop might not be so far ahead.

Thanks for mentioning our app here!

Just to let you know, the product description URL for CodeTek VirtualDesktop is here with a direct download the the gzip compressed disk image here.

It's also listed on VersionTracker here. Plenty of good reviews there so you don't have to take my word for it.

One of the only things CodeTek VirtualDesktop is missing is different desktop backgrounds for each virtual desktop, which we're adding to the next release. We've got tons of other things we're adding, too, but I don't want to talk too much about new features until we're at least in beta for that version...

Thanks for mentioning our app here!

Just to let you know, the product description URL for CodeTek VirtualDesktop is here with a direct download the the gzip compressed disk image here.

It's also listed on VersionTracker here. Plenty of good reviews there so you don't have to take my word for it.

One of the only things CodeTek VirtualDesktop is missing is different desktop backgrounds for each virtual desktop, which we're adding to the next release. We've got tons of other things we're adding, too, but I don't want to talk too much about new features until we're at least in beta for that version...

It's not freeware (god forbid you have to pay for something), but I've been using it for a couple months and it's roughly a billion times better than the Space app.

Now all we need is focus-follows-mouse...

Code Tek makes one it is excellent. It's 20USD and worth every penny.

You go here Now!

Virtual desktops, now -that- would be progress for OS/X - I'd like to see -that- problem addressed

How 'bout:

• Space.app (Free, good basic support, advanced features a little lacking for the moment).
• CodeTek Virtual Desktop (Commercial, works well, supports most features you'd expect).

Now focus-follows-mouse for MacOS X, that would be something to shout about... =)