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New Apple MacBook Pro: $1999 base price for a 2.2 GHz CoreDuo, 2 GB RAM, 120 GB HDD, DVD burner, 15" widescreen, no accessories or extra software.

New Dell Vostro: $1924 when loaded with 2.2 GHz CoreDuo, 2 GB RAM, 160 GB HDD, DVD burner, 15.4" widescreen, nVidia 8600 video card, Windows XP, Office Pro 2007, 2 MP video camera, bluetooth, 802.11n, Verizon EVDO modem, 3-in-1 card reader, 4 USB ports.

Size? Apple is 2.6cm x 35.7cm x 24.3cm and 2.5 kg. The Dell is is 3.6cm x 35.6cm x 26.5cm, and weighs 2.8 kg. Dell is a hair thicker and a touch deeper, and a bit heavier.

And has broadband connectivity nation-wide (Verizon EVDO), full Office suite, more peripherals, and is $75 cheaper.

It doesn't have a glowing "Apple" logo on the cover, though...

Apple's are well-designed, nice looking pieces of gear. But they are - and always will be - more expensive than similar class PCs simply because of the economy of scale.

Try again:

http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/driverslist.aspx?os=WW1&osl=EN&catid=-1&impid=-1&servicetag=&SystemID=INS_PNT_PM_1720&hidos=WLH&hidlang=en

XP drivers are available and the Vista license supports XP downgrade (see Microsoft licensing for specifics):

http://forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1425295&SiteID=17

Indeed... one of the benefits of having no work to do today... I was able to find the (un)official Dell ISO of Ubuntu 7.04, which included the drivers for everything. http://linux.dell.com/ if you're interested.

Among other things, it included a known issues wiki, with exactly the settings I need to put in to get the intel-hda driver loading properly. Since it's an ALSA thing, I can use the settings with *any* linux Distro. Happy geek. Looks like I have a project for this weekend.

That took me all of about 10 minutes to find. Dell has been the best about providing XP to both businesses and consumers as an easy-to-find option; HP seems to be a bit less cooperative.

That took me all of about 10 minutes to find. Dell has been the best about providing XP to both businesses and consumers as an easy-to-find option; HP seems to be a bit less cooperative.

That took me all of about 10 minutes to find. Dell has been the best about providing XP to both businesses and consumers as an easy-to-find option; HP seems to be a bit less cooperative.

DELL's new vostro or latitude or inspiron lines are the best hands down best semi-rugged laptops around. http://www.dell.com/html/us/products/latitude/test.html shows how good they are.

Dell's All Terrain Grade models are MILSPECed against harsh environments. Personally I've never used the ATG stuff, but I do own a non-hardened Dell D630 as my main machine and couldn't be happier. It's light, portable, powerful and runs Ubuntu fine.

I would imagine the ATGs would be slightly heavier, but if I were looking for a tough laptop with all the trimmings (including DVD burner), I'd check out the D630ATG.

It's called a vanity URL. Even though you type in http://catchydellurl.com/ you are redirected to http://catchy.promotion.dell.com/feb/09876/victor_bravo_charlie/this/is/long.htm. (Although it appears that this battery program one is not a vanity, but for the most part, these other non-dell domain names that are owned by dell, are vanities. The point is just marketing. You can get people to go directly to what would otherwise be a really cryptic url that only makes sense to Dell's web content management system by having them remember a really catchy simple url that sounds exactly like what they need. For instance, dell.com/open goes to dell's open source OS offerings page, but the real url is http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&dgc=EM&cid=21690&lid=511380. I can remember dell.com/open. That other thing, not so much. So maybe it's not really Dell to blame, maybe we should be blaming their content management system or ASP.NET (holy crap I actually got an MS bash out of this thread!).

It's called a vanity URL. Even though you type in http://catchydellurl.com/ you are redirected to http://catchy.promotion.dell.com/feb/09876/victor_bravo_charlie/this/is/long.htm. (Although it appears that this battery program one is not a vanity, but for the most part, these other non-dell domain names that are owned by dell, are vanities. The point is just marketing. You can get people to go directly to what would otherwise be a really cryptic url that only makes sense to Dell's web content management system by having them remember a really catchy simple url that sounds exactly like what they need. For instance, dell.com/open goes to dell's open source OS offerings page, but the real url is http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&dgc=EM&cid=21690&lid=511380. I can remember dell.com/open. That other thing, not so much. So maybe it's not really Dell to blame, maybe we should be blaming their content management system or ASP.NET (holy crap I actually got an MS bash out of this thread!).

For example; notice the subtle content differences between:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/ and this
http://www.whitehouse.com/ ...and this
http://www.whitehouse.net/
http://www.whitehouse.pl/
...and so on...
(You can do the same thing with: http://www.dell.com/ http://www.dell.net/ etc...)

I attempted to install Ubuntu on my new laptop recently and after several failed attempts to find all of the right drivers (some don't even exist yet) I had to give up.

I was thoroughly disappointed with the capabilities on decent hardware of Linux in general.

Call me when Linux is ready for prime time.

The Mac Pro is a nice option IF your needs are not met by a single quad-core processor and 8GB of dual-channel 800MHz ECC DDR2 memory. Unfortunately (IMO), Apple doesn't offer a decent single-processor workstation option that doesn't use FB-DIMMs.

Other replies have suggested three good sites with "system guides" (Tech Report, Ars Technica, and Anandtech), but none of them seem to have specific guides for graphic designers (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc). I think they're still worth reading because their general tips are useful for (comparative) beginners and their guides are regularly updated to keep up with current hardware trends.

In addition to Apple's Mac Pro specs page, you could use Dell's Precision workstation specs pages as a "guide" on which hardware to choose when you build your Photoshop/Illustrator workstation. Dell actually has a "Find Your Recommended Workstation Configuration" page that suggests specific workstations based on application. Their Photoshop and Illustrator suggestions are the same: the "mainstream" Precision T3400 (based on Intel's X38 chipset) and the "advanced" T5400 (like the Mac Pro, based on Intel's 5400 chipset).

If you're buying based on the Intel platform, those are probably the best and most compatible chipsets to build your workstation around. They both can use ECC memory, workstation-class video cards, PCI Express 2.0, etc. The X38 chipset might be limited by its 8GB RAM ceiling. The 5400 chipset might be unattractive because it uses FB-DIMMs and dual Xeon CPUs (when a single Core 2 Quad might do). X38 has decent cheap RAID (0,1,5,10) built into the chipset as well as eSATA and HD audio. The 5400 chipset can use up to 64GB of RAM and usually has legacy PCI-X slots for those older, expensive cards you don't want to throw away.

The Mac Pro is a nice option IF your needs are not met by a single quad-core processor and 8GB of dual-channel 800MHz ECC DDR2 memory. Unfortunately (IMO), Apple doesn't offer a decent single-processor workstation option that doesn't use FB-DIMMs.

Other replies have suggested three good sites with "system guides" (Tech Report, Ars Technica, and Anandtech), but none of them seem to have specific guides for graphic designers (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc). I think they're still worth reading because their general tips are useful for (comparative) beginners and their guides are regularly updated to keep up with current hardware trends.

In addition to Apple's Mac Pro specs page, you could use Dell's Precision workstation specs pages as a "guide" on which hardware to choose when you build your Photoshop/Illustrator workstation. Dell actually has a "Find Your Recommended Workstation Configuration" page that suggests specific workstations based on application. Their Photoshop and Illustrator suggestions are the same: the "mainstream" Precision T3400 (based on Intel's X38 chipset) and the "advanced" T5400 (like the Mac Pro, based on Intel's 5400 chipset).

If you're buying based on the Intel platform, those are probably the best and most compatible chipsets to build your workstation around. They both can use ECC memory, workstation-class video cards, PCI Express 2.0, etc. The X38 chipset might be limited by its 8GB RAM ceiling. The 5400 chipset might be unattractive because it uses FB-DIMMs and dual Xeon CPUs (when a single Core 2 Quad might do). X38 has decent cheap RAID (0,1,5,10) built into the chipset as well as eSATA and HD audio. The 5400 chipset can use up to 64GB of RAM and usually has legacy PCI-X slots for those older, expensive cards you don't want to throw away.

The Mac Pro is a nice option IF your needs are not met by a single quad-core processor and 8GB of dual-channel 800MHz ECC DDR2 memory. Unfortunately (IMO), Apple doesn't offer a decent single-processor workstation option that doesn't use FB-DIMMs.

Other replies have suggested three good sites with "system guides" (Tech Report, Ars Technica, and Anandtech), but none of them seem to have specific guides for graphic designers (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc). I think they're still worth reading because their general tips are useful for (comparative) beginners and their guides are regularly updated to keep up with current hardware trends.

In addition to Apple's Mac Pro specs page, you could use Dell's Precision workstation specs pages as a "guide" on which hardware to choose when you build your Photoshop/Illustrator workstation. Dell actually has a "Find Your Recommended Workstation Configuration" page that suggests specific workstations based on application. Their Photoshop and Illustrator suggestions are the same: the "mainstream" Precision T3400 (based on Intel's X38 chipset) and the "advanced" T5400 (like the Mac Pro, based on Intel's 5400 chipset).

If you're buying based on the Intel platform, those are probably the best and most compatible chipsets to build your workstation around. They both can use ECC memory, workstation-class video cards, PCI Express 2.0, etc. The X38 chipset might be limited by its 8GB RAM ceiling. The 5400 chipset might be unattractive because it uses FB-DIMMs and dual Xeon CPUs (when a single Core 2 Quad might do). X38 has decent cheap RAID (0,1,5,10) built into the chipset as well as eSATA and HD audio. The 5400 chipset can use up to 64GB of RAM and usually has legacy PCI-X slots for those older, expensive cards you don't want to throw away.

It's understandable that someone wouldn't think to look in the "business" section for laptops they plan to use at "home," but Dell's "business" laptops are better for most non-novice "home" users. For low-cost laptops, Dell's Vostro business laptops are physically nearly identical to their Inspiron home laptops, but the Vostros are a more attractive black color and have no shovelware. Dell's mid-range Latitude business laptops are higher quality and have better North American based support.

It's understandable that someone wouldn't think to look in the "business" section for laptops they plan to use at "home," but Dell's "business" laptops are better for most non-novice "home" users. For low-cost laptops, Dell's Vostro business laptops are physically nearly identical to their Inspiron home laptops, but the Vostros are a more attractive black color and have no shovelware. Dell's mid-range Latitude business laptops are higher quality and have better North American based support.

Oh, so I guess nobody else's shit stinks, right?

Actually, hidden away on Dell's website is a way to purchase laptops with XP installed on them.

You might want to sit back and have a look at this

Yup, Dell hardware powers Google's search appliances (a PowerEdge 2950 to be exact wit ha funky yellow bezel), Google software comes on all Dells. While that's not big deal, there's even a Dell/Google Portal. Basically, they already have a partnership.

Given that the last sentence of the linked story is incorrect - Dell currently does not manufacture its own range of handhelds - there's a good chance that there may be some flames accompanying this smoke, for the simple reason that Google aren't a hardware company. They play the tech market more like MS in that they supply software and services, but partner to build devices.

What about if you have a solid state drive? You can buy ultraportables with 32GB SSDs now. They cost a bit extra, but I'd definitely buy one. They're fast and will probably last longer than a hard disk.

But an extra 32GB of flash disk space will cost you $399.

When you buy a Dell PC with Linux on it, which Linux distribution do you get? Why is that?

SuSE is a reasonable choice in the server space; so is RedHat. But neither of those are being deployed on the desktop. Whatever you may think of it, the Linux platform which has got traction on the desktop - in the enterprise as much as in the home - is Ubuntu.

Dell makes a 20" portable, it even has a big beefy integrated handle. At 18.3 lbs, you could use it for some curls on the go, as well.

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsnb_m2010

Being a non-coder working in game development, I had to use IDEs every day, mainly Visual Studio and ProDG. VS was pretty easy to get to a 'reasonably productive' state with a few clicks, but ProDG (for PS3) was this labyrinthine mess, spawning split windows everytime you tried to click anywhere.

You can get a Dell at this cool website called http://dell.com/

But you can't get any of the ones that shock you. For that, you'll need http://www.tigerdirect/ or http://www.ebay.com/

No guarantees at either of those places!

For laptops that don't shock you, try shopping at Best Buy, where only the PRICE will shock you.

Ahh... I see what you did as "research" (your words not mine), went to Newegg and put the first thing in and said "Well, that's the market price".

Here goto Dell and buy a 64GB SSD outright (buy it from Dell directly, keep your 80GB Apple drive and still make money, over your so called "under-market price" Apple store)

Dell 64GB SSD drive $949
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/System_Drives/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=341-5582

I am aggressive with people that say grandious things but didn't put mental powers behind it... especially when they get incorrectly upmodded to a 5 when they are very incorrect.

How about the Dell XPS M1330: http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsnb_m1330?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04

Under 4 lbs, dual-core, 2 USB ports, RJ45, VGA, DVI, slot-loading optical drive, replaceable battery. For $999.

Or the 12" Latitude D430, which is only 3 lbs, similar to the above but no optical drive. $1200.

Or you can get this 13.3" Toshiba with 2gb RAM, C2D 1.66ghz, 160gb HD, optical drive, webcam, etc., weighing 4.5 lbs... for $750. Kind of amazing! http://edealinfo.com/dealsearch/Controller.php?bargain_search=13.3%22

Popularity grows, so it becomes an interesting target.

For the people that went Mac for security reasons. Welcome to Ubuntu, comes preinstalled here:
http://dell.com/ubuntu

On Windows it's one license per 2 cores

I thought it was per-socket starting with WinXP. Win2K made no distinction between physical processors and multiple cores on one processor because multi-core processors didn't exist when it was introduced. I haven't booted XP on my home workstation since upgrading it from an Athlon 64 to a Core 2 Quad (driver issues, no doubt), but Dell (to name just the first example I ran across) is offering XP Home (which only supports one socket) on its Core 2 Quad systems.

Don't look at the XPS - Check out the Latitude D430. 3lbs, only slightly thicker, and starts at $1200. See it here. I've got the earlier version of it (D420). Far more features and by my experience it's a more mature product. Plus, it makes one sweet Linux box!

Also, why would other PC manufacturers want to release a "comparable" subnotebook without ethernet, only one USB port, no optical drive, no firewire, no ExpressCard slot, non-upgradable memory, non-removable battery, no memory card slot, no docking station option, and no mobile broadband options?

Dell sells a 3-pound subnotebook with all those features, except integrated optical drive, starting at $1200.

64GB Solid State Drive [Add $999]

That's pretty clost the current going price for a 64 GB SSD.

The cheapest 64 GB SSD I've seen so far is $949 from Dell

In Early 2007, a 32GB SSD could set you back over $2,000 so the price per GB has already dropped by a factor of four in the past year.

However, like all technology, SSD's are getting cheaper and cheaper as component prices are falling and the mass production is picking up.

Microsoft is a monopoly.

Oh... you meant an Apple laptop. Well, Apple is late.

The Precisions ain't cheap, but the cheaper ones can be considered "high end" business-class machines. For example:

• Precision M4300 notebook (start at $1770): 15.4" (WXGA to WUXGA options), 6.5 lbs, Quadro FX 360M (GeForce 8400M based), Intel 965PM chipset, Core 2 Duo T7100 (1.8GHz) and up.
• Presicion T3400 desktop ($1300 and up): standard ATX size, Intel X38 chipset, non-ECC memory option, Core 2 Duo E4300 and up, Quadro NVS 290 (GeForce 8400 based) and up.

The Precisions ain't cheap, but the cheaper ones can be considered "high end" business-class machines. For example:

• Precision M4300 notebook (start at $1770): 15.4" (WXGA to WUXGA options), 6.5 lbs, Quadro FX 360M (GeForce 8400M based), Intel 965PM chipset, Core 2 Duo T7100 (1.8GHz) and up.
• Presicion T3400 desktop ($1300 and up): standard ATX size, Intel X38 chipset, non-ECC memory option, Core 2 Duo E4300 and up, Quadro NVS 290 (GeForce 8400 based) and up.

There's something sad about the fact that a flat-screen monitor with integrated speakers won "Best of CES Innovations Award" this year. Sure, it looks slick... but best of innovations?

Exactly, and don't forget that it is still very difficult to buy a Desktop or Laptop computer with Linux pre-installed

But how many people would rather spend those two days just playing the game they wanted to play?

The XPS One's online manual on their support site lists the "viewing angles" as "80 degrees" (horizontal and vertical). This seems to indicate a cheap 6-bit panel, just like the iMac's.

With Apple, not-so-much. You could run MacOS X, Linux, and Windows. Very flexible.

Apple also uses standard components...like memory and hard drives. If they're available from third parties, where's the lock in?

Truth be told, Dell and other large vendors have non-standard motherboards and power supplies, so you aren't any more locked in than you would have been with Apple.

The only way you won't be locked in with hardware is to build your own out of readily available components. The problem is that you tend to end up with an over-sized piece of hardware. People want small and sleek nowadays.

Second, Dells all run Microsoft OS and I absolutely hate the way MS writes their software.

The Dell XPS M2010 is better than them both!

It's called Keep your Hard Drive

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/services/client_support/keep_harddrive?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

Pretty much all companies should do this, I know mine does, keep your information out of the wrong hands. Maybe Apple does something similar?
For Dell if I remember correctly, it costs an extra $5-10 per machine to subscribe to this program -- and you can specify you want to subscribe to it when you order the machine.

I used to work for the Openmanage team so I'll post AC
Some documentation is available at http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/power/ps2q07-20070309-Senthil-OE.pdf
Openmanage -The RPM dependencies are not properly set, which they claim they're "working on"
The dependencies are set correctly - The problem is that Redhat names their 32 and 64 bit packages with the same name, so "rpm -qa" will show that the package you need is installed while the 32 bit package will fail to install. Solution is usually to install both 32 & 64 bit.
Another complication is the CD size - Dell wants to support 3 flavors of Redhat and 3 of Suse on the same CD image - Having packages that meet these dependencies is a pain.
I am not sure if anyone is working on "fixing" this problem, but are certainly workarounds like using the yum repository at http://linux.dell.com/repo/software/. The users guide (on the documentation CD), the website also list it.
Redhat AS / Centos 5.1 are not supported.
The rpms support it, but the installation script fails.the main reason is because the package rarely gets tested on openipmi packages that CentOS provides. Openipmi is not controlled by Dell, so it is difficult to fix issues on centos stream
Dos Style & man page
Valid, this is a kludgey leftover from trying to support both windows and linux with same CLI
Libstdc++ Again because of need to support 3 versions of redhat. All required library rpms are in supportrpms folder.
Driver Update
This again is because of the same firmware package being designed for 3 OSes. Your point is valid - it is messy.
Since I am no longer at Dell, I cannot fix this issue, but could you please email a note to omi@dell.com / support.dell.com links or post on Dell Linux Mailing list with your exact issues - Make sure to highlight that you want those emails to be forwarded to OpenManaage Marketing...

I used to work for the Openmanage team so I'll post AC
Some documentation is available at http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/power/ps2q07-20070309-Senthil-OE.pdf
Openmanage -The RPM dependencies are not properly set, which they claim they're "working on"
The dependencies are set correctly - The problem is that Redhat names their 32 and 64 bit packages with the same name, so "rpm -qa" will show that the package you need is installed while the 32 bit package will fail to install. Solution is usually to install both 32 & 64 bit.
Another complication is the CD size - Dell wants to support 3 flavors of Redhat and 3 of Suse on the same CD image - Having packages that meet these dependencies is a pain.
I am not sure if anyone is working on "fixing" this problem, but are certainly workarounds like using the yum repository at http://linux.dell.com/repo/software/. The users guide (on the documentation CD), the website also list it.
Redhat AS / Centos 5.1 are not supported.
The rpms support it, but the installation script fails.the main reason is because the package rarely gets tested on openipmi packages that CentOS provides. Openipmi is not controlled by Dell, so it is difficult to fix issues on centos stream
Dos Style & man page
Valid, this is a kludgey leftover from trying to support both windows and linux with same CLI
Libstdc++ Again because of need to support 3 versions of redhat. All required library rpms are in supportrpms folder.
Driver Update
This again is because of the same firmware package being designed for 3 OSes. Your point is valid - it is messy.
Since I am no longer at Dell, I cannot fix this issue, but could you please email a note to omi@dell.com / support.dell.com links or post on Dell Linux Mailing list with your exact issues - Make sure to highlight that you want those emails to be forwarded to OpenManaage Marketing...

The DRAC is completely stand alone, it has it's own NIC, you can ssh to it, etc

http://support2.jp.dell.com/docs/software/smdrac3/drac5/1.00/en/UG/html/racugc8.htm

I tried to buy my cousin an Ubuntu Dell PC last week. The only desktop model with Linux preinstalled that they "sell" is the Inspiron Desktop 530N, with no support ("No OS" model, but you can choose them to preinstall either Ubuntu or FreeDOS) - though you can buy support from Canonical, like anyone else, for $275:year.

I tried to buy it. First I found that the $500 price depended on an "instant rebate". Sure, buying the Ubuntu version offered a rebate of $100, but the otherwise identical Windows version rebated $150 . And the Windows version included Dell OS support. I would be nearly crazy to buy the Ubuntu version instead of the Windows version, when Windows would give me an additional 10% off, I could download and burn an Ubuntu installer for $free, install dual-boot in 30 minutes, and have both - plus Windows support.

Then I tried to actually do that. And found that though that page is up, there are all kinds of order numbers attached (with even a few slightly variant models offering either Ubuntu or Windows preinstalled), "that offer is no longer available". In fact there are versions of that PC HW sold for as little as $369 starting (minus the monitor), but that HW starts at something like $800, against which Dell starts discounting. But none of them are Ubuntu preinstalled. And though the phone guy was friendly, sympathetic, experienced and working to help solve my problems, he hadn't even heard there was an Ubuntu version, and it turned out there wasn't.

So Dell doesn't really "sell" Linux desktops. But when they pretend to, it's a way to sell more Windows desktops, even to people who want Ubuntu instead.

We've used Dell gear in my last couple of jobs. We had some stupid level of support on our Latitudes at my last job and they'd send people out to replace the hard drives and little rubber feet and everything, which was sort of nice but still annoying to take care of. We use a ton of Dell servers at my new job and at least on the hard drive failures I've seen so far Dell support has been really good at overnighting new drive right out. However, I've always been frustrated by the support levels in the same way as Microsoft licensing. There are too many options, and these options all have different numbers you have to call. Sometimes when I use the online chat support, which is much nicer than sitting on the phone, they kick me away to phone support if I start asking two many Poweredge questions. For Poweredge and linux support I highly recommend their linux-poweredge mailing list. They've got at least a few of their dedicated linux engineers on there but there's good community support as well. Sometimes searching here directly with Google brings back results that you wouldn't have found using the entire intarweb. I'm really pushing for more debian and 64bit support as are many others. OMSA is a beast though. Mebbe IPMI will save the day.