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Microsoft Responds to 'Save XP' Petition
DaMassive writes "Computerworld Australia is running a story with a response from Microsoft to Infoworld's SAVE XP petition Web site, which has gathered over 75,000 signatures so far. Apparently Microsoft is aware of the petition, but says it is "listening first and foremost to feedback we hear from partners and customers about what makes sense based on their needs, that's what informed our decision to extend the availability of XP initially, and what will continue to guide us" — a somewhat strange response given that the vast majority of people signing the petition ARE Microsoft customers! The Save XP movement has attracted the attention of the software giant, despite its claims that Vista has sold more than 100 million copies and its adoption rate is in line with the company's expectations. "We're seeing positive indicators that we're already starting to move from the early adoption phase into the mainstream and that more and more businesses are beginning their planning and deployment of Windows Vista," the company said. Nevertheless vendors such as Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo, Fujitsu, and more recently NEC, all offer the opportunity to downgrade to XP Pro."
So what they are basically saying is, directx 10 costs $300 and youll never ever have it without ruining your computer
They will push Vista as hard as they can, as soon as they can. Its nice to appear friendly to the XP clients in the meantime, but in the end they want to make sure every computer now comes equipped with their latest VistaWare.
The MAFIAA are their customers. You are what they sell.
I'm sorry, did I see the word downgrade there? I'd consider Vista to XP an upgrade myself. Anyhow, kudos to the OEM's for providing XP as an option. It would be nice if more of them also offered linux as an option when selecting the OS. At least Dell does. (Thanks.)
It would be nice if Microsoft would at least extend the System Builder and OEM licenses for a while longer; there's really no reason not to people like XP, and they get money whether people buy Vista or XP. If they stop offering XP, then people may choose to use Linux or macs, and in the end MS may end up losing money.
int isBusinessPartnerOrCustomer(user) { /* Thin the herd */
if (isBusinessPartner(user))
return TRUE;
if (isCustomer(user) && accountSize(customer) > TenMillion)
return TRUE;
return FALSE;
}
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Because what I want to do today is get my work done.
NAH NAH NAH NAH I can't hear you NAN NAN NAN NAN
How we know is more important than what we know.
I've always read XP as an emoticon.
I am hoping that the SP1 that is in the works addresses most of the problems that Vista has. Until that is officially released then I say just wait it out. I doubt Microsoft is going to pay attention to a petition like this until then. Now, if this is still around and growing a few months after they release SP1 then that would be worth looking into. For all we know, Windows Vista SP1 is going to be the best thing since sliced bread.
"Nevertheless vendors such as Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo, Fujitsu, and more recently NEC, all offer the opportunity to downgrade to XP Pro."
Here - Fixing that for you this time. Be mindful next time.
"Nevertheless vendors such as Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo, Fujitsu, and more recently NEC, all offer the opportunity to upgrade to XP Pro."
No.
In a coupla years, when the world is mostly running 64-bit Vista applications (and sneering at all the retards still using 32-bit OS's), all the poor sods who thought they knew something and downgraded their brand-new PC to XP won't be able to run SFA on their "new" computers.
/. and reading all about how MS screwed their users by letting them back-peddle "back in '08"...
I'm also willing to guess that I'll be logging onto
-AC
I never thought there would be a day when XP would be considered a step up from the current state of affairs.
Then again, these days, Nixon would be considered a step up from the current state of affairs, so...
What if I do the same thing, and I do get different results?
Making the Areo interface mandatory for the business edition of Vista is the single biggest mistake that Microsoft has made. The average small business with less than 100 desktops is not going to (upgrade) anytime soon, the costs are prohibitive and it is rediculous that Vista Home Basic can run on less powerfull hardware but the flagship OS that is supposed to be secure does not. As any small computer sales outfit will attest, Vista for business is a flop and will remain so as long as Microsoft and their 'hardware partners' continue to commit extortion on the world of small business.
Troll you may be, yet I think I'll find this comment slightly more insightful than the avalanche of "durhurhur XP is an upgrade" comments that about 30 people will think they're original and/or funny by saying.
"It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
...we had drawn the line in the sand with Windows 2000, the last honest OS they made (honest = an attempt to meet users needs; dishonest = corporate marketing strategy comes before users, and it isn't spyware if we say so).
Instead of plowing a field, we're moving bits and bytes.
Microsoft listens to the lords and barons, not to the serfs (barring a massive uprising and the occasional symbolic act of obligatory good faith).
You can't take the sky from me...
I believe that this has been mentioned before in the Apple/ATT discussions over the iPhone. Let me see if I can explain it any more plainly:
I have a friend that works in "Consumer Relations" for GE - basically, that means dealing with you and me. The "Customer Relations" department deals with the likes of Sears.
When Microsoft says they are listening to their customers, that means they are listening to OEMs, Best Buy/CompUSA type stores, or Fortune 500s with huge install bases.
You and I are, once again, the consumer - and we'll get what's available based on what people want to sell us.
It makes sense that companies like Dell will respond to people's demands for XP, just as they did with Linux - we are their customers, and we affect their bottom line. And unless Michael Dell is signing that petition, then it's not going to amount to a hill of beans.
However, the Dells of the world have other lines of communication with Microsoft, not some poxy little web petition.
Anyone who thinks that a web petition is going to get results probably thinks that singing Bob Dylan songs on the National Mall will end the war in Iraq.
You can install Vista and get screwed today! Get a 2 year head start on your friends!
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Quote from the article: ... a Microsoft spokesperson in the US told Computerworld: "We're aware of it, but are listening first and foremost to feedback we hear from partners and customers about what makes sense based on their needs. That's what informed our decision to extend the availability of XP initially, and what will continue to guide us."
So much of what comes from Microsoft seems depersonalized, as though employees just go through the motions, realizing that nothing they do will change the basic nature of the fundamental failures in the company.
Incompetence hangs in the air like the cold stench of death.
That is MS speak for we will see if the partners (read manufacturers) want it otherwise we will keep pushing a system that requires people to update their hardware. I don't get the feeling that the "customer" they are listening to is the general WinXP using consumer...
I just can't be bothered.
Funny, that's the sound my budget made when running the numbers on the cost of upgrading my client PCs to Vista...
How many of us back in 2001 could have imagined the day when we would be fighting to save Windows XP?
It is a strange world.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
I wonder how many of those businesses that are planning on upgrading to Vista are only doing so because they feel that they have to? Where I work, we are heavily invested in Windows. We have over 20,000 workstations and hundreds of servers all running Windows. We have in-house custom-built applications that run in Windows. For the foreseeable future, we're using Windows, and at some point we won't be legally able to install XP. This means, like it or not, our future is Vista, which we are in the process of preparing for.
You've lived for years with an inferior operating system from a company that restricts your freedoms with your OWN data. You locked yourself into proprietary file formats from a company that purposely doesn't interoperate just to bleed you wallet dry. From OS/2 to a million flavors of unix/linux to mac os there have been abundant stable OS's for years to choose from. Now MS is pulling the rug out from under you in order to get you to bleed more cash for upgrades? Tough! You deserve it!
... so they think they can make one of the most evil corporations on the planet do a good deed with just a bunch of signatures? (cue evil maniacal laughter)
Evil corporations cannot change. Well, they could change, but they WON'T. Terefore, they must be defeated. I wonder what would happen if all of the 75,000 people signing for XP would have donated 20 dollars to the ReactOS project. $1,500,000 bucks doesn't sound any bad at all.
On the other hand, this democratic exercise can help to open the eyes of the ignorant masses so they can realize that Microsoft won't change.
I hate to break it to you, but given the absolute 0 work/commitment required for an online petition, no business worth their salt would bother basing critical decisions such as the tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars MS would have to spend to continue supporting XP in the manner demanded. How many of these petitioners have bothered to write a letter, or make a phone call?
And finally... 75,000. Out of how many copies sold? That's not even 1% of their user base. Why would the EVER even consider such a request? I hate to break it to you vocal majority, but for most of us, Vista is as good, if not superior to XP. This is the same game that was played when XP was released. "OH NOES, 2000 IS SO MUCH BETTER!!!" It wasn't and XP isn't.
I've read all the same stories 6 years ago.
Except back then people were bitching about the upgrade from 2000 to XP.
The end result is Microsoft will fix some of the most annoying things in Vista (or offer alternatives), but 95% of their customers will swallow Vista within the next 2 years, and only the anal-i-will-die-proving-my-point types will still run XP... err excuse me, Windows 2000.
Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
I'm an infovore...
A major incentive for Microsoft to convince people to switch to Vista is that it is an important revenue stream. After all, those who have kept XP since 2001 have been receiving upgrades for free since then. Something they could do is that after a certain amount of time a licence has been bought, that licence would need to be renewed, or the users would not get any more updates. This way, XP would still be profitable even with users who haven't upgraded.
function isBusinessPartnerOrCustomer(user as variant) as variant on error goto microsoft if isBusinessPartner(user) = true then return TRUE end if if (isCustomer(user) and accountSize(customer) > TenMillion) ' Thin the herd return TRUE end if return FALSE microsoft: inputbox('Please enter your serial number to continue', 'activation required') end function
I don't have a great amount of experience with this particular part of OS history, but from my experiences in my school's computer lab, when they upgraded the iMacs from OS 9 to OS X, they became more responsive, crashed significantly less, and ran overall faster. The same couldn't be said for the computers I saw upgraded to vista. When I upgraded my laptop (an original MacBook Pro) from Tiger to Leopard, its performance noticeably increased, despite the fact that it was not apple's top of the line anymore. Apple's upgrades generally seem to increase performance across the board but Microsoft's just target the latest and greatest. But I am only speaking from my own experience. Yours may be different and I could be wrong.
I agree with Linus Torvalds on what he said about operating systems. Basically, a regular user who's upgrading the OS should not notice a too big difference, nor should he have to upgrade the computer. The big problem with Vista is that it runs significantly slower than XP. Most of the annoyances are gone now that a year has passed since the release, so after a year of Vista, I am finally pleased (except for the exceptionally steep hardware requirements).
If only Microsoft can make Windows 7 blazing fast again, I have no doubt it will be a huge success. Imagine the millions of users out there who switch from Vista to Windows 7 to notice that things are running fast like hell now. That's what we need. Linus was right.
Full Tilt
As long as they were collecting email addresses, they just couldn't resist inserting a few "yes, please contact me about special offers for my convenience" checkboxes. So Microsoft doesn't take them seriously, and I'm having considerable trouble to not do the same.
Instead of plowing a field, we're moving bits and bytes.
Microsoft listens to the lords and barons, not to the serfs (barring a massive uprising and the occasional symbolic act of obligatory good faith). The topic is "Microsoft petition", the reply is in the form of a metaphor.
Reply "I don't get it" instead of downmoding, sheesh.
You can't take the sky from me...
A year or so from now I think Microsoft would serve itself very well to make Windows XP free. Think of all the implications of doing so.
I would like to give points to the most disastrous use of the word "downgrade" ever. Going from Vista to XP is the same kind of downgrade as going from a Geo to a Lexus.
I'd like to go ahead and downgrade my house into a mansion please.
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
How many of these 100 million were honest to goodness, "I'm going out to buy Vista" rather then the "I am getting a new PC but it came with Vista, so I am going to have to use my old XP disk on it when I get home". I bet the sold number differs from the registered users numbers
The difference between the XP launch (and the hesitance to upgrade) and the Vista launch is this:-
XP was LEAPS AND BOUNDS better than win98/ME, which was what a lot of people had at the time
Vista is only marginally better than XP
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
what MS meant by saying they listen to their customer is - A petition is just an for malcontents with an axe to grind not reliable "evidence" that their customers are saying anything. If the first question on the petition was "have you ever paid for a copy of XP or ever used Vista?" there'd prolly be 5,000 signatures :P
The only way to upgrade XP is to wrap a virtualizer around it as a prophylactic. You need to keep the top the same to run the apps and such, but the guts should not be touching the metal.
A Mac plus Parallels plus the XP you already own keeps all your old stuff working (XP apps on XP) while also opening up new stuff like iLife and Unix and uptime and 64-bit RAM access. XP needs to be frozen in time like a compatibility library, not improved or changed. If you can get by with a non-Mac Unix then that is an excellent solution for running your virtualized XP also.
Vista is different from XP, but not improved enough to make the switch worthwhile. If Vista had Win64 and a XP-in-a-window then that would be worth considering. No matter how much Microsoft wants to ignore it, the fact is you have to upgrade an old application platform to be compatible with a modern system. Win32 was created to run standalone or hooked onto a LAN where you trust everybody, and in 32-bits. Investing more money and time in that at this point is ridiculous.
I doubt Microsoft really cares if you buy XP with your computer instead of Vista. They way they look at it, it's even good for them - Vista is a Juggernaut that will eventually be standard on modern desktops; people who choose XP instead of Vista are going to have to buy a copy of Vista down the line.
So from Microsoft's standpoint, people buying XP is great for them - they get paid once for their old OS, and then they get paid again when you buy a boxed copy of Vista down the line.
Nemilar http://www.techthrob.com - Visit Me!
There would be two working versions of Vista for the desktop, Home and Work and one for servers. Monopolies are bad.
Thanks to eating disorders most chicks are reasonably good looking these days.
Your living in a dream world Microsoft. Making up fake statistics does not make it true. No matter how badly you want them to be true. From a vantage point of someone with a tech support background, I personally have helped several of my friends, and family, downgrade their new systems (and a few old ones) that came with Vista, back to XP. Most reasons were simply, "I just don't like it!"
Keywords for the NSA overthrow oppressive regime true believers marathon Manhatten the financial district blueprints I
Yup, unless you have a G3 or a G4 slower than 867MHz in which case you can't install Leopard. Not really the point I was almost sort of making in my own peculiar flamebaity fashion. XP has been with us for 7 years. Vista is a big change. Change is bad. Vista is bad. Even if it's good it's different so it's bad. I don't mind it. It's Windows. Same shit different smell or something like that.
Now wash your hands.
"They have to save face and spout brain-dead corporate marketing nonsense."
I'm sure glad that not MY job, spouting brain-dead corporate marketing nonsense.
Do you think horror movies are scary? I never have. If a filmmaker wanted to make a really scary movie, he or she would make a movie about corporate robots whose entire lives involve turning some crank, pretending that what they do is important, most of them not even realizing they have reduced themselves to sub-human drones.
Wow, aside from the lies, you seem extremely angry.
We've tested our in house , and outside applications in Vista, but we make sure to put on all new machines a "no vista" tag.
We are the top leader in our sector of software development in business automation, and are scaling our applications to vista, but have absolutely no intentions of adopting vista in any form for internal use.
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
With this, you simply have to think about the standard 4 year replacement schedule - most businesses and homes replace their computer every four years. It used to be 3, but has slowed down a bit.
Going by that, you're going to have better than 50% penetration of at least windows machines in 3 years by essentially forbidding sales of XP on new machines.
It's kinda like the switch to digital television - except the replacement rate for a TV is more like a decade, so if they'd started requiring a digital tuner in 2003 instead of 2006(or so), you'd have half as many TV's requiring a converter box.
I don't read AC A human right
Personally, unless they do something more extreme than the XP service pack 2 updates, I figure I'll probably try to stick with XP and skip Vista in favor of the next OS, leaving it in the dust heap like millenium.
Assuming I stick with a MS OS, of course. I like gaming too much at the moment to NOT have a microsoft OS.
I don't read AC A human right
On a lighter note;
Since Microsoft wanted people to upgrade, i decided to given in and upgraded to Linux.
Serious note:
And those who can't upgrade and prefer Windows, Older computers just can't run Vista and Microsoft are to much of dumbasses to realize that. XP must remain until older computers are dead. Thanks to M$, Viruses will spread more rapidly. M$ will make it easier for hackers to take control of XP machines that can't upgrade. So in a couple years, you can blame M$ for rapid spread of computer viruses because of their discontinuation of Xp Support.
\
I'm sure someone's already posted something similar, but here goes:
For the last 6 months, I've been part of a group of 20 individuals taking a course together. Many of them have made computer purchases within those 6 months. And over the last 6 months, from that group of 20 people, I have had no less than 7 requests to downgrade a newly bought computer from Vista to XP. Even assuming that every person in that group (not including myself) had purchased a new computer within the last 6 months, that means that the rejection rate for Vista would be around 36%. However, as far as I know, only those 7 individuals have actually purchased new computers during that time period, meaning that the rejection rate for Vista amongst my acquaintances has been around 100%. The only reason these people are "buying" Vista is because it comes bundled with their computers, and most of them will get rid of it at the first opportunity.
Many Microsoft employees seem to function as an incubator of innovations for contributions to the value chain.
Despite its claims that Vista has sold more than 100 million copies and its adoption rate is in line with the company's expectations.
Vista's sales are high for one reason.
Every Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc that you purchase with XP is actually sold as a computer with a Vista license and a XP downgrade license.
Classic Microsoft.
100 Million copies maybe, but I bet 75 million of them want XP back.
Not ONE person I know is happy about there Vista everybody I know hates it with a passion. All of them have been devoted Window$ users in the past.
When did Slashdot become Digg, BTW? Didn't we get rid of twitter because of this?
Microsoft posts record performance in its Windows client division.
In office products. In servers. In console gaming...
15-20% growth in the first and second quarters of fiscal 2008. The U.S. economy is weak. The tech sector is down. But Microsoft is on a roll.
The Slashdot response is denial.
In a crapflood of posts that put a increasingly desperate spin on news that - more realistically viewed - would silence a Twitter.
Downgrade to XP Pro? Don't they mean upgrade?
Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, and Brian Valentine ran a train on his wife once.
Not really, but nobody has come up with a better answer.
All the games I tested before hand and after I installed SP1 increased by either slightly or I got a huge performance gain. The biggest gain was in World of Warcraft, I am now getting the frame rates that I once got when I had XP installed.
Vista is not as bad as everyone claims it is and with SP1 installed I'd take Vista over XP any day.
> listening first and foremost to feedback we hear from
> partners and customers about what makes sense based
> on their needs,
You should know that people with computers are _NOT_ Microsoft's customers. They are the customers of Dell, Gateway, Walmart, Best Buy, etc.
Microsoft's customers are the box shifters and the retailers. _Their_ feedback is that they want shiney new stuff that requires loads of brand new hardware to push selling price up as far as it can so they maximise their revenue and profit.
Oh, yes and if the punters buy XP _as_well_ then that is even better. If they have to buy new printers and scanners because their existing ones no longer work with Vista then that is even better.
And can we do this again next year please.
Well may we say "God save Windows XP",
because nothing will save Vista Ultimate.
[with apologies to the eloquent Gough]
remember this?
This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
Only on Slashdot would this ridiculous notion be modded up as insightful.
Sales have been strongest fot OEM Vista and Ultimate, The laptop with a dual core CPU, 2 GB RAM, the 320 GB hard drive, integrated WiFi, NVIDIA GeForce graphics, etc, etc, etc.
The odds are good that Office 2007 will leave the store in the same cart, along with a multifunction color printer-scanner with a Vista driver.
Your ISP supports the Vista OS.
You haven't a clue where to find support for your DIY Linux install.
DVDs play out of the box.
The USB keychain HDTV tuner is $90. ReadyBoost flash $30.
High performance DX10.1 cards for the gamer's desktop start at $170. The Pioneer Blu-Ray drive for HD media play is $200-250.
I always assumed that Ballmer ate his dog, to be honest.
In his defense, it might have been a dachshund, and they look a lot like sausages.
"It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
Obviously, XP is still worth paying for.
Slurm Queen: Yes! Which is why we'll market it as New Slurm. Then, when everyone hates it, we'll bring back Slurm Classic, and make billions!
The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim.
Everyone (with the exception of a handful of posters) seems to be forgetting here:
Microsoft is listening to its customers.
You are not Microsoft's customer, no matter how many Windows boxen you have around your house, office, etc. You are the product.
The entertainment industry is the primary customer. Microsoft is selling your eardrums and eyeballs. The entertainment industry wants you to pay for every instance of audio or video, be it a song or a movie or a video game or someone's lame stand-up comedy routine, on each version of every media going. That is why Vista is infested with resource-consuming DRM. And that DRM is why Microsoft is so anxious to see Vista successfully replace XP.
I never said it wasn't although perhaps you didn't mean that. What I'm saying is that given all the constant complaining about Vista on the internet, I would think that if someone was going to pirate it then they obviously want it for some reason. Also, as I said in another post people are going to be upgrading based on their needs, and most peoples' needs do not include Vista or DirectX 10. However, when they buy new computers they'll get Vista, because most people really don't care either way.
All your base are belong to Wii.
Then use open source, you douchebag!
Wow you're an idiot. So the cost of upgrade is in the OS alone? Not in, say, training or re-working in-house apps?
Moron.
Over Christmas it was almost impossible to find XP pre-installed. Most people who did not know better had to purchase a PC from the major manufacturers with Vista pre-loaded. There is a program in place to "downgrade" the OS, but MS is quickly pulling in the reigns on this.
Get used to Vista.... MS hasnt learned yet from ME, and they will force us to purchase Vista so their stocks will go up a quarter of 1%.
Dude, if that's true it needs to be like +12 Informative.
You have a source on that?
The United States of America: We do what we must because we can.
Face it guys. XP will be history very soon. Get over it. Use Vista or OS X or Linux, but quit whining.
-- Cheers!
I'm sure a LOT of consumers who "buy Vista" do so only because cause their hardware is only available with it pre-installed, and as a result many of them suffer with a crappy, bloated OS or delete it altogether. Vista now occupies only a small partition on this notebook for the very rare cases when I must have real Windows compatibility, which is only true because the manufacturer ahs not seen fit to develop XP drivers for it.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
Now if I could get all my key bindings working and have my Vista on one facet of my cube, a VMware OS X on another, and 6 more for terminals and Linux programs I think I'd be happy.
My Linux Command of the Day site : LCOD
if this is the case, it may be worth my time to reinstall vista and see what it has to offer. i've often been frustrated at the difficulty of switching from 3d apps to firefox or elsewhere.
"Have any of you nay-sayers actually used Vista for any length of time? Remember the learning curve when we went from 98/2000 to XP; Same thing, put some effort in and you might not be so negative about it. I've had Vista on my laptop virtually since launch and I haven't had any major issues with it."
This guy seems to be totally clueless
What is the learning curve for going from 2000 to xp? For the casual user it's the same thing, except the uglier interface. Under the hood it's also the same thing, with some improvements (well, that really is debatable).
It really amuses me when guys like that get quoted as if they knew what are they talking about.
Microsoft doesn't sell directly. Amongst users of Windows there is no M$ customers.
M$'s customers are channel partners - those who sell Windows/Office/Server/etc for them.
M$ eagerly listens to its customers on how they can together make even more money. Right - not how to make product better - but how to secure more sale deals. That's the concept.
But then again, M$' channel partners sell the ware to IT departments. And we all know that IT is dead end as end-users are concerned. Nor IT does use even half of the product they procure.
So in the long chain to M$, your silly petition is just empty whining to them. After all, you already bought both Vista and XP - deal's sealed and done. So why you are whining then???
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
"Yup, unless you have a G3 or a G4 slower than 867MHz in which case you can't install Leopard."
This free hack allows Leopard to be installed on many older Macs:
http://www.mac.profusehost.net/leopardassist
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
I use Linux for everything else. But I need my Windows 98SE for a few things (Battlefield 1942, etc). How dare the tax software packages drop support for Windows 98 this year. But I found 1-2 open source tax software projects that look interesting.
What irritates me is MS proudly claiming millions of Vista sales. Of course they sell millions, actually you can't buy a new PC without Vista pre-installed and it already becomes painful to find XP drivers for new hardware, when you want (or need) to downgrade...
You have no choice but to pay your Vista pre-install. So, where's the glory, where is the fame?...
MS biased claims don't talk about their deals with resellers, Intel and other PC manufacturers, nor about users downgrades...
Eric
Why sticking with a closed source / single vendor operating system is a bad idea. When they stop supporting it or the company goes under you are screwed. Let that be a lesson learned...
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
The company I work for makes whole house audio equipment and programmable remote controls. ... under XP. Under Vista however, there are all sorts of problems
Our equipment is set up by an installer using a windows based application that downloads
configuration data to the microprocessor based equipment. It can also download firmware
updates. Our configuration / firmware update application communicates to the equipment
over ethernet, or a USB-serial link. The PC application is written using M$'s "Dot Nyet"
framework. It works great
up to and including corruption of the data and firmware update leaving the equipment being
configured a "brick". We don't yet know what the problem is, (bad drivers, in-compatible
dot-nyet dll's with Vista, ???). What a hunk of junk! M$ you screwed the pouch!
They should take a leaf out of Apples book, screw your customer base.
They will love you more for it later.....
n/t
Microsoft's customer is the OEMs and the resellers, not you. They don't really care if nobody ever uses Vista, so long as they keep selling it. That is why they will nod politely at petitions like this, but in they end, they will ignore all such attempts to pressure them into keeping XP. XP (and all previous versions of Microsoft Office) are now The Competition, to be eliminated from the marketplace at the first opportunity. That is why (IMHO) the next version of Office for Windows (post-2007) will not support any of the old file formats, only the new ECMA standard. If they could safely do so, they would eliminate support for XP and 2000 from Windows Networking support as well.
Even big corporations will oftentimes purchase a new OS as part of a maintenance agreement, but not use it for one reason or another, so again it's the sale that counts, not whether anybody *wants* the bloody thing.
Oh, entirely off-topic, I have yet to "upgrade" from Windows 2000 to XP, never mind Vista. The only difference between XP and Vista is that Vista is a bigger oinker, that's all.
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Senator Carl Schurz (1872)
but Microsoft should look to Caligari and learn some lessons from them. Caligari is a really small 3d software company that sells trueSpace, iSpace, and gameSpace. Caligari's head man, Roman Ormandy, is kind of wacky. He likes selling older versions at the same time that he has the company selling newer versions. His is the only company in the world that I know of that does that. What's great about it is he also has emails sent out to everyone that downloads demos or free versions of older things constantly giving them the option to buy at heavily discounts. In some ways his marketing is quite annoying... but on the other hand, it's freaking brilliant. Microsoft should take a lesson from this guy and start selling, and simultaneously offering support for all versions of windows from the very first one til the present one... and continue selling stuff like windows xp, etc. That way, instead of forcing everyone to "upgrade or die," - death in this case meaning move over to linux, it gives the customer lots of options... people like having options. I also think that doing something like this would keep all the pirates sort of out of the picture. Who'd want to buy a cruddy bug infested pirate version of windows 98 for 20 bucks on ebay when you can get the real deal with full suport from m$ for 4 bucks, shipping and handling included?
You people are just going to have to wake up and realize that XP is dead, by decree of Microsoft and their ability to do so. They are a business and they will do what they feel is best for their bottom line, it's what companies that stay in business DO. The customers they listen to are the large corporations with Enterprise Agreements and OS counts in the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, not you. Get used to it.
of XP-Pro until it costs too much for anyone to buy. They've already moved the price of the retail pack to $299. While there are some discounted packages and OEM versions are around half the price it will surely see more increases as a way to get that pesky consumer to straiten up and get right with Redmond. That way they can just let it expire quietly.
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My other Sig is a 229.
I have "downgraded" my Leopard back to Tiger due to constant crashing issues (the computer completely locks up and I am given a message to hold down the power button). I have never had that kind of lockup in Vista. Sure programs have crashed, but I can always kill them with Task Manager, much like you can Force Quit everything in Tiger without the entire computer locking up. So in my personal sample size of 2 computers, Vista was much better than Leopard for stability.
I would imagine the data coming back via that venue is much more informative than a petition with names on it. Whether they use that data or not is debatable
In an effort to conform with internet communication standards, please note that the above comment is 100% biased opinion
It's not only Vista that's causing me to switch to Mac but also (more so?) Microsoft's Genuine Advantage garbage they have pushed on to their 'customers'. This is this single biggest nail in the Windows coffin for me. It is the straw that broke this paying camel's back. They can kill XP and move to Vista for all I care. I'm packing it in, done...Microsoft isn't getting another dime from me, ever.
Yes, I could write a better statement. However, that would not reflect the truth of the social disfunction at Microsoft as well as the Microsoft statement.
They sell so many copies because they have a virtual monopoly. They have arranged, by possibly illegal means, that every hardware seller must include a copy of their operating system. Microsoft was already convicted of that once.
The more irritating part of this is that this is proof that Microsoft has monopoly power.
Any software company in a competitive environment would bend over backward to give paying customers what they want. Microsoft's monopoly position allows them to say "Nope, you have to buy our new product." If there were an actual competitive environment, customers would say screw you, I'll use someone else's product.
Now, this power over the market has also allowed Microsoft and the MAFIAAS to push anti-consumer nonsense that never would have been possible in a truly competitive.
Does anyone remember software "dongles" back in the 80s? Companies could not sell software with a dongle. People didn't want it. It was something the treated paying customers like criminals. We now have the same crap in DVDs, HD televisions, HDMI, and more. People don't want it, but the huge multinational corporations have conspired to push this crap on us. In the old days, the FCC would have put a stop to it, but like other previously protective regulatory agencies, the FCC has become a tool for the industries.
Copyright USED to be for the common good of society, but now it is a way to control and justify all sorts of horrible affronts to freedom. Just think, once paper is no longer used and ISPs regularly filter all content, how will we keep accurate records? If trying to use any old newspaper report for any purpose is a copyright violation with a fine of 1.2 million dollars, how to we keep track of history? I know you are saying "fair use," but how long can it last under the onslaught?
Now, can the sheeple wrest control from the corporations?
Stop imitating my inner child :)
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
Microsoft should be listening to all the people who still chose XP over Vista on new systems. They clearly don't wish to, but that who it should be.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
they need to stop trying to compete with Google and focus on creating operating systems.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
"Nevertheless vendors such as Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo, Fujitsu, and more recently NEC, all offer the opportunity to downgrade to XP Pro." Really? My girlfriend just bought a laptop from HP, and hated Vista so she wanted to downgrade to XP. We look on the HP site for drivers, and there are none. I send them an e-mail and they respond that they are starting to cut XP support from their newer models.
Another example of why I purchased my first Mac. I understand that business and government have millions, hell, billions invested in Microsoft products and most are too committed to switch OS's, but other OS's (good OS's) are out there. SLED 10.3 is a prime example IMHO.
One, it's an online petition, which makes it intrinsically worthless.
Two, 75,000 isn't even the tiniest fraction of Microsoft's user base.
Three, would you expect a petition to save Windows XP to even be an accurate cross-sample of Microsoft's user base, or is it more likely that it contains a disproportionate share of people who, you know, want to save Windows XP.
That we're not hearing from people who support the move to Vista doesn't mean they don't exist in large numbers. After all, there's no reason to get vocal when you're happy with the way things are going.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
Do they take into account that I AM using Vista but that I deeply hate it? I got no choice to use it since I have to support it for all those people who have trouble with it, but using it is such an incredible mess! Poor network performances, ridiculous boot up time, awful application startup performance. But I use it because I need it...
The New Coke of technology product launches.
"listening first and foremost to feedback we hear from partners and customers about what makes sense based on their needs..."
If they had done that during the development of Vista then this whole hoorah about XP would not be necessary!
No, it's not a strange response at all, if you understand Microsoft. MS doesn't really concern themselves too much with home users. There are a ton of reasons, but probably chief among them is most home users of Windows are really unskilled at using it.
MS makes their product for large enterprise customers. To use a political term, that is their constituency. It's who buys their products in bulk... but more importantly it's who can properly articulate what new features they want out of a product.
That's why, for example, Vista is not all that different from a home user's perspective. Most of the changes are going on under the hood: security is tighter, it has a lot more features which can be used by an Active Directory, and it has more tools for tech people to use. None of which an unskilled Windows user is going to know about or care about.
They are indeed listening to their customers. Which are the OEMs, System Vendors, and Corporations only. Microsoft does not sell directly to the consumer, and most likely never will. They take their earnings not on what you buy, but on what the company you pay for your computer buys. So they are indeed listening to their customers. Which does not include you. Welcome to the market! Buy what you are given and be happy about it.
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask where they're goin' and hook up with 'em later.
On one hand the potential of selling Vista and future OSs has a higher potential of sales transactions is not something to easily abandon, but on the other PEOPLE PREFER XP. Why stop selling something that sells itself? Take a cue from Apple. Sell minor upgrades to a fairly solid OS. OS 10 has sold 6 versions so far - since 1999. Thats 6x$129 or a total of $774 from just about every Macintosh user. How many versions of Windows have you bought since 1999? 3?
You guys are stupid. If you're going to save any version of Windows it should have been Windows 2000. That was the last version without all this activation and DRM shit.
As a developer I hate XP because I'm constantly changing my CPU, hard drives, video card, etc. and XP keeps needing to be activated again and again. It's annoying as hell.
This is from the whitepaper on SP3... "For customers with existing Windows XP installations, Windows XP SP3 fills gaps in the updates they might have missed--for example, by declining individual updates when using Windows Update."
No thanks! If I decline an update, it is for a reason.
I signed up at the savexp site, chose I didnt want emails from anyone. Within 12 hours, I had 3 spam emails sitting in my mailbox with my first name on them.
Infoworld should not be allowed to perpetuate this clamity.