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Dish is going all out in taking on Directv. They recognize Directv is stronger than them, so they are value-adding to their core satellite programming. They introduced Blockbuster Streaming and Tailgater (http://www.dishnetwork.com/redirects/promotion/tailgater/default.aspx) at their 'Team Summit' in May. Both of them are essentially add-ons, but are meant to offer the oomph to sign on new customers or migrate existing satellite customers from Directv. Dish doesn't have that much of an incentive to sell either of those products to non-Dish customers. [Full disclosure: My company makes the Tailgater and the product is my design]

This has been out for a while now. http://www.dishnetwork.com/tveverywhere/default.aspx

The only reason cable companies could historically charge the ridiculous fees for TV service is because the only real alternative has been an expensive satellite dish.

Around here, Minneapolis/St Paul, satellite is cheaper than cable. I am paying more than $60 to ComCast for cable TV, for the basic package. DirecTV's basic family package is $30 a month with no equipment to buy or startup costs. Though more expensive than DirecTV Dishnetwork is cheaper than ComCast as well. For this reason I am thinking of switching from cable to satellite.

Falcon

For their hilarious 'Family' package:

http://www.dishnetwork.com/packages/detail.aspx?pack=DISHFamily

$25 used to be the price for the real basic package (it is now the tease rate):

http://www.dishnetwork.com/packages/detail.aspx?pack=AT100

For their hilarious 'Family' package:

http://www.dishnetwork.com/packages/detail.aspx?pack=DISHFamily

$25 used to be the price for the real basic package (it is now the tease rate):

http://www.dishnetwork.com/packages/detail.aspx?pack=AT100

Here's a cheap DVR: $300 or ~$250 on ebay - It lets you record two different programs at the same time, while watching a third program off the hard drive: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/ProductDisplay?partNumber=05757709000P&storeId=10153&catalogId=12605

Or just get one of these and use your old DVR or VCR - http://www.dishnetwork.com/dtvpal/plus.shtml

/yes i know what echostar is

Do you? Wikipedia says DISH is a legally distinct entity from Echostar. The relevant bit reads "The company was formerly part of EchoStar Communications Corporation before DISH Network was separated in December 2007." A Google News search seems to support this. Even DISH Networks will tell you it is true. Plover pointed this out above, and I fact checked Wikipedia.

Only dual tuner receivers like the 322,625,222,or 722, can save you money if they are plugged into a phone line. (HD VIP models can use internet).

They give you the second tuner (TV) for free. So you can get 4 tvs for only an extra $5 a month.

I work for a retailer for Dish and Directv (Big Dog Satellite)

here is the cite: http://www.dishnetwork.com/phoneline/

"The monthly programming access fee for TV2 will be waived if your receiver is hooked to a phone line or high speed internet line"

Despite "only doing hardware", at least one company appears to think that distribution of set-top box hardware code is required (though, of course, as stated there, they also put some proprietary code in to make it impossible to actually perform a full build for the equipment, but they do distribute the GPL'd parts). I don't think "we just do hardware" would work if I were shipping computers that happened to have unlicensed proprietary software installed, why would it work for free software?

Dish Network's relievers support MPEG4 and Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound.

Their picture looks good to me

Everything you say is true, but you're missing a further bit of irony:

Businesses are also expected to pay more for television service than residential customers. It's another form of licensing fee, similar to what ASCAP/BMI does to music in public places.

See, for example, commercial.dishnetwork.com -- it's a whole different animal than their residential pricing, policies, and packages.

she is complaining about $9.99 for the HD channels?

I work for Dish Network and they charge $20 extra a month for HD. Look at the fine print they give you $20 off for 10 months. So you get it for free for 10 months but it is an 18 month contract. (http://dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_ hd/offer/index.shtml)

you do get around 30 HD channels though.

Actually it is called MLB Extra Innings. Who is your satellite provider? The major ones provide MLB Extra Innings. Blackout rules are a joke with MLB because they do reach out much farther than should be, but I don't see how you are not offered MLB Extra Innings anymore.

People who can't get service from the traditional sources are often putting up sattelite systems

If you're including satellite systems, then yeah, broadband access is pretty much everywhere. But if you're including satellite systems, then it's pretty much everywhere in the United States, too, since everyone has access to DirecTv or Dish Network.

But I wouldn't count that, because it destroys any valid comparison to be made, and because I don't consider the multisecond ping times of satellite internet as being 'broadband.' I know the bandwidth's there, but if you can't play Counterstrike or WoW, I don't think it should count.

Get Dish Network. I have the basic plan, Top 60, and get Sci-Fi, Comedy Central, Adult Swim, and MTV2 (for Headbanger's Ball) for $29.99/mo. It's $39.99/mo if you want to get FX and Animal Planet (amoung many other channels). What's nice, too, is when the networks try to force them to carry more channels and raise the price, Dish actually stands up to them. This cost me about two weeks without Comedy Central, but Viacom caved and my rates didn't go up like all my Comcast-using friends rates did.

I've watched a few tournaments that've aired on GamePlay HD. It's one of the VOOM networks that are on Dish Network. I have to say, if you want to watch the gaming, you have to do it in HD. Regular SD television can never show the full resolution inside the game, and so have to rely on boring interviews and hype.

Yes. I have some LCD panels, and my work and friends have large-panel LCD Tvs.
So, not in a way that I can convey here.

But you can check it out for yourself. Google may help. If you look into the subject at all you'll see it's no secret.

Here's a pdf from Dishnetwork:
http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/t echportal/images/pdf/hdtvdisplay.pdf#search=%22LCD %20backlight%20fade%22
It lists the Pros/Cons of the different technologies. It says:
"Direct View LCD"
"Cons"
"Expensive, pixels viewable with large screens, picture can fade over time, slow pixel response time can cause motion blurs."

Here's another view from Planar's Ali Gard:
http://blog.planar.com/embedded/2006/01/crts-lcds- tale-of-tape.html

An excerpt:
"LCD's luminance is controlled by the luminosity of the backlight / edgelight. The backlights in LCD monitors are almost always CCFL (cold cathode florescent lamps). The life of the backlight is determined by how long it takes until the lamp reaches half of its original luminance. Similar to CRTs phosphors in CCFL's age and their efficiency declines. LCD's don't suffer from flicker, or image burn just a few years ago that time was about 30,000 hours. Newer lamp technology has increased that time to 60,000 hours to reach half brightness."

That puts it at 3.5 to 7 years (if you accept the manufacturer's claims). What he doesn't address is that the CCFL will fade unevenly which is most obvious in large panels.

Luckily an appeals court has stayed the portion of the injunction regarding deactivation of PVR's. Which is a good thing, since I own a bought and paid for 721 :).

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/presski t/press/index.shtml

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/presski t/press/index.shtml

Oh well - looks like the 30 day thing has been delayed...

Boy, someone has a financial interest in TiVo! You guys hate Microsoft but love news like this? That's a double-standard.

With that being said, Here is echostar's press release. For the lazy among us, they are appealing, and the court did rule that they did not act in bad faith, so hold onto your DVRs, they prolly won't get taken away.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/presski t/press/index.shtml

RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER AGREEMENT

C. DISH Network reserves the rights to alter software, features and/or functionality in your DISH Network receivers,

D. DISH Network's PVR/DVR Products allow you to record programming in digital format. ...[snip]... DISH Network does not guarantee access to or recording of any particular programming. ...[snip]... DISH Network may, in its sole discretion, add, change or remove features of its PVR/DVR Products and, upon notice to you, introduce or change fees for the use of PVR/DVR Product features. DISH Network will notify you of any change that is within its reasonable control....[snip]...

I live in a rural area of Virginia and don't even have access to cable, so I use dish network http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/products/hdtv/i ndex.shtml. The problem: One of my TVs is HD ready, the other two aren't. That would mean I would have to have two different receivers, as well as two different dishes mounted to my house. It's a couple hundred in equipment and installation, plus extra monthly charges (not to mention the extra eyesore on the house). We considered it, but decided that we really didn't need to watch "Joey" http://www.nbc.com/Footer/HDTV/ in high definition.

Well this then answers what was meant by my 522 spec sheet:
(1) USB 1.0, *for future use (http://tech.dishnetwork.com/receivers/522/index.s html)

This states that its USB 1.0 which certainly doesn't have sufficient throughput for transfer of this size of files.
I can only imagine (because the spec sheet doesn't SPECifify) that the Dish DVR 921 (HDTV DVR) has a USB 2 port on the front.

I wonder if only a software upgrade will be needed for my DVR.

a side note: on the DishNetwork website, under software, there's already a lineitem for the PocketDish software and updates. Apparently you have to hook it up to your 942 receiver, and software updates will process through your 942. Sounds like they may use their some type of authentication at their receiver to lock out other methods of attempted USB access. Dish Network Software

>I have a DVR that has dual tuners so it powers 2 TV's in 2 seperate rooms.
Dual tuner devices generally means that you have the ability to record multiple programs at one time while watching a recorded program. TIVO/DirecTV doesn't offer a multi-tuner device with outputs for each tuner. Seems a bit odd from my experience. With TIVO and DirecTV, you have a single box which contains 2 tuners (unlike what you seem to believe, makes me wonder how much comparison you made other than pricing and talking to a DISH salesman) and supplies one television. If you wanted to send the signal out to multiple televisions from one box you'd have to split the single output signal. I don't see the advantage to your set-up, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't work for you. If one device goes bad in your set-up, then you lose two televisions rather than one. In the DirecTV set-up, that won't happen.

I just looked into the DISH site a bit and you have a slight misconception about HD. If you want their HD-DVR, you need to buy it, at this point. Check out the DISH Player-DVR 942 which appears to be a purchase only device for $700. So, you don't just get to upgrade it without paying for it, just like everybody else.

>Dish network does it, does it matter?
Certainly it does. If DISH didn't do the work, then you've gone to the trouble of altering a device that you don't own, which isn't what you've done. While I can pop open my devices and hack them to my hearts content, another major advantage to buying the device rather than renting it, in my experience. Whether I decide to hack them myself or not, I have the right to do it if I choose to.

Anybody has the freedom to switch at anytime. I found that the first company to market with the products that owns the satellites has been the better company all along. I also find that a great user interface makes a huge difference, I've experienced the DISH interface and it's clunky and not very user-friendly unlike the DirecTV interface. The TIVO user interface is also the most user-frinedly DVR interface that I have run across with the most useful options that everybody else have attempted to duplicate and failed doing so in their attempts. I never said that everyone values what I do. It sounds like your major concern is doing things on the cheap, while mine is all about the user experience. Nothing wrong with either. I'm not militant about DirecTV, I just wanted to point out how your rental agreement isn't such a savings as you seem to want others to believe it to be.

Linux on the desktop is as far away as it when I started using it four years ago (ask your non-techie friends), MS are still kings of the hill.

I guess some people haven't been paying attention to their non-techie friends.

Windows used to be "cool". Now, it's common knowledge that it sucks, it's inconsistent, unreliable, and a pain in the arse. Many of them have heard of Linux, and a few have even tried it.

Here's my experience:

For a while, my computer ran RedHat/Fedora, while my wife's computer ran Windows. Mine worked great, hers crashed often. With little time to spend fixing Windows hiccups, I finally just reloaded her ccomputer with Fedora Core.

My wife, a real trooper, put out honest effort to get to know it. At first, she didn't like it. She couldn't find N or window X opened in annoying ways... Problem printing, etc. You know the routine.

But, after using it for 6 months, she's an advocate! She's gotten familiar with the shortcomings (EG: not reliably playing Windows Media files) but more importantly, she's gotten familiar with the strengths, too. (EG: It works day in and day out)

Her usual line goes something like: "It's not for everyone, and it's not perfect. It won't run Windows software, for example. But if you need your computer to just work everyday like it did yesterday, this is something you need to consider. What do you actually DO on your computer? Really?".

Next thing I know, I'm installing Linux on another computer...

Here's the funny thing: My parents recently got NAILED by Yet Another Windows Worm and my wife was espousing the benefits of Linux. Turns out their satellite receiver runs... Linux!

Actually, the FCC passed a rule in 1996 that allows residents of apartment complexes/townhomes/condos to install a dish as long as it's within the renter's exclusive area such as a balcony, yard, or patio.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/pdf/getdish/w hat_is/LLP_Release_Form.pdf

So if your balcony or porch has a clear view of the satellite, then you shouldn't have any problems. The only place you can't put the dish is on top of the roof or attached to the side of your building, unless you have the owner's permission.

If anyone is interested, the DISH 721 DVR source code is also available.

Erm, Dish PVRs are even MORE proprietary and still cost a lot of money.

-Em

On Dish Network, you can get a channel called TV JAPAN. Aparrantly it consists of a bunch of NHK shows.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/programming/int ernational/packages/indexalacarte.asp?languageType =Japanese

$25/month, just for that one channel.

How about the 2nd receiver on this page? The Dish player-DVR 921. It's a HDTV receiver with built-in PVR. Personally I'd always go for a solution that doesn't require any external conversion from digtal to analog and back to digital. And I don't know of any pc based decoder cards that will tune Dish network's signal on their own.

While they mentioned the $4.99 a month DVR fee from DirecTV, they failed to mention the $4.98 fee from DishNetwork/EchoStar. If you have a DVR with any hard drive > 80GB you get hit with their Video On Demand service fee for $4.98 a month (I get tagged with that on my 522 for its 120GB hd). You can however get this fee waived if you signup for the America's Everything Package which is 180 channels + locals (if your market is supported) + all the premium content channels for $77.99 a month. If you are the AT60,120, or 180 you have to pay the $4.98 though.

Just offering that heads up :)

While they mentioned the $4.99 a month DVR fee from DirecTV, they failed to mention the $4.98 fee from DishNetwork/EchoStar. If you have a DVR with any hard drive > 80GB you get hit with their Video On Demand service fee for $4.98 a month (I get tagged with that on my 522 for its 120GB hd). You can however get this fee waived if you signup for the America's Everything Package which is 180 channels + locals (if your market is supported) + all the premium content channels for $77.99 a month. If you are the AT60,120, or 180 you have to pay the $4.98 though.

Just offering that heads up :)

While they mentioned the $4.99 a month DVR fee from DirecTV, they failed to mention the $4.98 fee from DishNetwork/EchoStar. If you have a DVR with any hard drive > 80GB you get hit with their Video On Demand service fee for $4.98 a month (I get tagged with that on my 522 for its 120GB hd). You can however get this fee waived if you signup for the America's Everything Package which is 180 channels + locals (if your market is supported) + all the premium content channels for $77.99 a month. If you are the AT60,120, or 180 you have to pay the $4.98 though.

Just offering that heads up :)

While they mentioned the $4.99 a month DVR fee from DirecTV, they failed to mention the $4.98 fee from DishNetwork/EchoStar. If you have a DVR with any hard drive > 80GB you get hit with their Video On Demand service fee for $4.98 a month (I get tagged with that on my 522 for its 120GB hd). You can however get this fee waived if you signup for the America's Everything Package which is 180 channels + locals (if your market is supported) + all the premium content channels for $77.99 a month. If you are the AT60,120, or 180 you have to pay the $4.98 though.

Just offering that heads up :)

While they mentioned the $4.99 a month DVR fee from DirecTV, they failed to mention the $4.98 fee from DishNetwork/EchoStar. If you have a DVR with any hard drive > 80GB you get hit with their Video On Demand service fee for $4.98 a month (I get tagged with that on my 522 for its 120GB hd). You can however get this fee waived if you signup for the America's Everything Package which is 180 channels + locals (if your market is supported) + all the premium content channels for $77.99 a month. If you are the AT60,120, or 180 you have to pay the $4.98 though.

Just offering that heads up :)

A friend bought an HDTV $3000, an HDTV Satellite Reciever with locals module $1000, a new roof antenna to get the locals broadcast $100.

Now the most he gets on his Dish Network

espnHD 1 channel - premium charge
DiscoverHD 1 channel - Premium Charge
TNT 1 channel - Premium Charge
HBO HD 1 channel - if you get HBO at premium charge
Showtime HD 1 channel - for showtime premium charge
PPV HD 1 channel - ppv charge for 1 crappy movie per month

Free channels for HD primetime programming over the antenna. ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC, WB and PBS(Receiver above required). Mind you these are not always in HD only during primetime or at special events.

So thats $4000 plus programming fees for almost NO programming and no hope in sight for at least 9-12 months. Seems to me that its better to wait and let them develop the TV's and gear as well as let the prices drop, than to spend the money right now and get no real benefit. Funny thing is he can't wait to spend the $1000 on a standalone Tivo box for his hdtv.

Last week I discovered that my mid-range Dish TV plan has added around 90 of Sirius Satellite Radio's music channels. This is the first time I've enjoyed radio since moving out of range of KCMU (founding station of grunge) Seattle in '89. CD's have never made me give up my vinyl collection, and to my ears 128-bit mp3 compression is as bad as 8-track. Dish's own music channels sound no better than 128-bit. The Sirius channels don't - just compressed and the bass eq'd up a notch. Just got a new phono cartridge, but it turns out that one Sirius channel will at times have content that's about 50% drawn from my old vinyl - and well-selected at that - so that cartridge may last a long time. What's more fun is that another 6 or 8 of the channels are playing mostly very good stuff I haven't heard before, mostly in free-format, live DJ style.

This is the anti-Clear Channel, and severely undercuts the star and marketing strategies of the big labels and broadcasters by pumping out a lot of less-heard stuff. But it also severely undercuts my reason for building my own collection in the past: a shortage of good, fresh stuff on the radio meant that to secure a supply of stimulating, diverse and inspiring tunes I had to amass racks of the damn things. Nonetheless, at my best I can only equal, not surpass, a good DJ making selections more out of love than promotion.

And no friggin commercials. Aside from losing big on some mp3.com stock, this whole file-trading thing has been too limping in fidelity to matter to me. But radio this pleasing means both I have little reason to build my own collection except for disks by the truly-obscure artists I see live, and I'm not paying into a subscription plan either, really, since Dish added these for free to the TV plan I already had, and Sirius is mainly in it for the hope that I will subscribe to put 'em in my car (a temptation).

So I'd say the current industry + the file-trading industry (to the slight extent there are true INDUCErs) taken together as a whole, as the synthesis of that thesis + antithesis, is Siriusly challenged, and that essentially free (or cheap), noncommercial (inter)national satellite radio is the new antithesis to the whole lot of 'em - who are as usual still fighting the last battle among themselves rather than noting the fast approach of their common obsolescence.

common areas

rooftops

outside walls

window sills

so, unless permission is granted from landlord or homeowners associations you can't install there. the nice people at dish network have a landlord permission form and a diagram of exclusive areas.

common areas

rooftops

outside walls

window sills

so, unless permission is granted from landlord or homeowners associations you can't install there. the nice people at dish network have a landlord permission form and a diagram of exclusive areas.

I have two 13" TVs, one in our bedroom and one in my fiance's little brother's room. I don't want to have to put a receiver that's the size of a DVD player when I bought these TVs for their small footprint.

Dish network offers dual tuner boxes with two remotes, one IR and one RF. The cable runs into the box once and out twice, You put the box on your big TV's and use the IR remote there. You run the second out to a small tv and us the RF remote that goes thru walls with that one. The box contains two completely seperate tuners so the two TVs can be on different channels.

more info here

BTW I work for a satellite TV company, we sell DirecTV. :D

I live in a small town (pop. ~25,000) in Nebraska. Somehow I don't think we're on the forefront of technology, although we do have wonderful, cheap DSL service.

I don't want to have to put a receiver that's the size of a DVD player when I bought these TVs for their small footprint.

Check this out. It's a dual-tuner receiver that drives two televisions, with two RF remote controls that have a pretty long range. My mom got this setup when she started satellite service a few months ago and it works perfectly. I have the old one-receiver-per-TV setup, and when I recently visited my mom I was surprised that I was flipping through the channels on a receiver at the opposite end of the house from the TV I was watching.

Even with our "legacy" setup, the receiver we use in our bedroom for our 13" TV is only about 1 inch thick and not significantly wider than our TV (which sits on it).

Cable is regulated because it is a licensed monopoly (it least it used to be). With the advent of "overbuilders" such as RCN and satellite TV such as DirecTV and Dish Network, perhaps cable should be deregulated. You do make the very valid point that cable is far from a critical service, so let the free market work its magic.

I'm always frustrated that somehow these existing laws somehow don't apply to the cell phone companies as well.

The problem is that these are often considered to be national services, putting them out of reach in some ways for state PUC/PSC. This is a similar argument made in support of VOIP. The FCC, obviously, has jurisdiction. Let's say I live in one state, on the state line, so my mobile service is coming from another state. Who has jurisdiction?

With that said, the PUC is applying many things to mobile carriers. They have been required to support 911 (they didn't used to be). Mobile carriers are looking more and more like traditional carriers, and they can expect to get the same regulatory treatment in the future.

If I go to a regular store to purchase anything, the store is required to disclose fees up front

Thats not entirely accurate. As someone who travels alot, let me tell you, taxes and what they apply to are not clear until you check out. Take the example of a newspaper: in some places its taxed, others not; if it is, the tax rates are different. I can usually just pull out a dollar for a WSJ, but not always. Taxes, fees, and surcharges are generally not disclosed in any industry until time or sale or invoicing (also see: buying a car, closing a mortgage, buying a plane ticket).

However, like the Roku, the sucker is unstable and crashes at least once a week. I mean, the whole bloody thing just shuts down, and you end up with an awful burst of snow and white-noise on the TV. Then, it takes something like 5 minutes for it to boot back up again. It's either poor hardware design, or poor software engineering to support the hardware.

Tivo showed us that a company is fully capable of doing the right things with Linux. But, what's amazing is that nobody appears to have bothered to learn from Tivo as an example in how to do things right: whether Roku or DishNetwork.

As an aside, according to this, older versions of the DVR ran XFS for file management. My 522 DVR probably does as well. I wonder if the file system is unstable?

= 9J =

However, like the Roku, the sucker is unstable and crashes at least once a week. I mean, the whole bloody thing just shuts down, and you end up with an awful burst of snow and white-noise on the TV. Then, it takes something like 5 minutes for it to boot back up again. It's either poor hardware design, or poor software engineering to support the hardware.

Tivo showed us that a company is fully capable of doing the right things with Linux. But, what's amazing is that nobody appears to have bothered to learn from Tivo as an example in how to do things right: whether Roku or DishNetwork.

As an aside, according to this, older versions of the DVR ran XFS for file management. My 522 DVR probably does as well. I wonder if the file system is unstable?

= 9J =

The FCC won't bow to broadcasters, but if there is interference, enough customer complaints might spark some change. Otherwise they can just get DirecTV or Dish Network. Somehow, I don't think that people in "rural" areas who depend on broadcast TV (trailer parks?) will go for the satellite option.

Dish Network has PVRs that support two input lines. Record on one, watch live on the other, or record on both. p0rn bonus: They sell something called 'adult showcase' where you get access to 4 different adult channels for 3 hours for a flat rate. With the dual tuner boxes (no pun intended) you record TWICE the material for the same price. (Don't tell them, please!)

Satellite Dish

Comcast is a sanctioned monopoly here in Baltimore. I finally got completely fed up a few years ago after the tried to (in my opinion) scam me twice in two months, First, they tried slamming tactics to get me to sign up for cable moden (the typical one where the salesperson says one thing and the recording you say 'yes' to says another). The next time someone called and the first thing they said was, "Do you have a computer ?" My wife being the savy character that she is asked, "Who the hell are you and why are you asking me about the contents of my home!" She told the idiot telemarketer from Comcast that it was an inappropriate question and the sucker hung up on her (bad mistake). One complaint to the FCC, and a letter to the local Comcast PHBs copied to our county rep later, and they agreed to never call us again (on paper).

I signed up for DirectTV, then, rather than spend an hour on hold just to wait between '8am and 4pm' for a tech one day, I climbed the side of my house and with a pair of side cutters, and cut the cord (literally and figuratively) with the Evil Empire that is Comcast.

Questionable sales techniques, monopoly deals that overide local govt. (they are fed regulated BTW), higher prices, horrible customer service, receive-only "Internet connections", policies that are anti-customer and dare I say, anti-American ! - why would anyone give these rats a red cent ! At least if they bought Disney I could have focused my distain on one entity for a while ;)

I can only hope we see the return of TechTV on DirectTV one day... Access provider monopolies mixed with content giants is a recipe for disaster.