Gaming Tourneys Coming to U.S. Television

greig writes "DirecTV is aiming to bring to the states what the South Koreans have been enjoying for years: regular broadcasts of videogaming tournaments. Games at the first tournament were Battlefield 2, Counterstrike 1.6, Halo 2, Project Gothem Racing and Dead or Alive 4. The initial broadcasts of the exhibition invitational are on the free DirecTV channel 101 this weekend. Is this the first step to escalating videogames to the status of the X-Games and poker?" Taken from the about section: "The Championship Gaming Series will launch as a league starting 2007; however, in 2006, we will broadcast 3 television events: Championship Gaming Invitational, the Cyberathlete Professional League (CPL) Winter Finals and an event that will be announced shortly."

Comments

Not long now guys, warm up your Shock rifles.

[LiquidCoooled]

In 2291, in an attempt to control violence among deep space miners the New Earth Government legalized no-holds-barred fighting.

Liandri Mining Corporation, working with the NEG, established a series of leagues and bloody public exhibitions.

The fight's popularity grew with their brutality. Soon, Liandri discovered that the public matches were their most profitable enterprise.

The professional league was formed; a cabal of the most violent and skilled warriors in known space, selected to fight in a Grand Tournament.

Now it is 2341, 50 years have passed since founding of DeathMatch. Profits from the Tournament number in the hundreds of billions.

You have been selected to fight in the professional league by the Liandri Rules Board. Your strength and brutality are legendary.

The time has come to prove you are the best; to crush your enemies; to win the Tournament.

Re:Not long now guys, warm up your Shock rifles.

[DJHewi1025]

Best first post ever. Although.... what's funny about calling the gamers cyberathletes is you are gonna see one kid that's about 500 lbs. Now, that's just effing funny.

Re:Not long now guys, warm up your Shock rifles.

[Gli7ch]

...It's the introduction to Unreal Tournament. Also, what part of "News for Nerds" don't you understand? Furthermore, I feel sorry for any woman you've ever touched. Especially your mother.

Re:Not long now guys, warm up your Shock rifles.

[OuroborosCobra]

What part of "news for nerds" don't YOU understand Gli7ch. This was a funny first post. Obviously it was over your head.

Re:Not long now guys, warm up your Shock rifles.

[ElleyKitten]

On the serious side have you ever talked to a woman? And Mom doesn't count. Gawd this BBS is still full of zit faced fucking geeks... sad sad sad. Last time I log in here. Where is the tech talk. Nothing but losers jacking to Play stations and game boxes... slashdot has jumped the shark.

Some women actually like games, and would prefer to talk to gamers in real life than assholes like you. And please learn what "jumped the shark" means before trying to use it again.

Re:Not long now guys, warm up your Shock rifles.

[dupper]

My god. That's the most awesome thing I've ever seen. I'm not sure what's nerdier: that you took the time to transcribe it, or that I recognize it from memory as exactly accurate. Unless you transcribed it from memory. Then I might as well just cut out my nerd gland, because I don't stand a fucking chance.

Re:Not long now guys, warm up your Shock rifles.

[Neoncow]

Welcome to Slashdot. As we are nerds, we like to organise our discussions in a hierarchy. Posts are organised in a tree like format where replies form the branches of the tree. The philosophy of Slashdot is that no posts should ever be deleted; they are only hidden. This poses a problem for replies to posts that have been moderated below your viewing threshold. GP (the grand parent post, aka the post you have replied to) was responding to a post that has been moderated down to -1. At -1, you cannot see this post and must click the "parent" link to view the hidden post (as the default viewing threshold is set at 0). You can also click the "2 replies beneath your current threshold" to view these hidden posts.

HTH HAND (Have a nice day. Hope that helps.)

Re:Not long now guys, warm up your Shock rifles.

[LiquidCoooled]

Unfortunately I googled the few key phrases I remember from it but whilst reading it I could hear her voice and picture the scenery and camera path.

A simply awesome game.

Re:Not long now guys, warm up your Shock rifles.

[Raenex]

And here's a YouTube link:

Unreal Tournament Intro

Re:Not long now guys, warm up your Shock rifles.

[Andy Somnifac]

Indeed I have. Hell, I had sex with a female guildmate. Umm, maybe I shouldn't be admiting that...

Re:Not long now guys, warm up your Shock rifles.

[Gli7ch]

I didn't say the first post wasn't funny. I never flamed the first post. I told the guy who flamed the first post that he was a fucking moron. There's a difference.

Re:Not long now guys, warm up your Shock rifles.

[Anonymous Coward]

Woah, a fat sarcastic Slashdot troll. You must be a devil with the ladies.

Is there really a market for this?

[hine_uk]

Does anyone see a market for this sort of event? Gaming - a predominantly solo event (yes we can argue that it is 'social' when gaming online but thats another discussions) does not lend itself well to passive viewing. Isnt this one of the main arguements as to why gamers (myself included) claim that it takes consumer entertainment to a different level? Because unlike television where the viewer sits there; the gamer is immersing him (or her) self in the game world and experience and is the catalyst rather than the recepticle.

Look at LAN parties, do you see people sat back watching the action in large numbers? No, instead everyone sees that Dust is on and jumps into the action. Games just arent fun to watch.

To me it just doesnt seem like entertainment, I dont want to watch other people play games I want to play it myself - thats what games are for.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[kswtch]

i don't see a market here but there is a regular esports broadcast in germany for some time now. Looks like there are at least a few people out there interested in observing gamers and how they play the game.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[b3k]

solo Bawhhahha that's right you fat bastard you will be solo.........hhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[omeg]

Seen as how this is already a million-dollar industry in Korea, with multiple TV channels airing matches 24/7, and a gigantic amount of money being spent on sponsoring and merchandise, don't you think that perhaps the old-fashioned belief that games are "just to be played" is a fallacy?

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[hine_uk]

Granted Korea has a large market for this sort of televised event with particular emphasis on games (if memory serves correct) as Starcraft and its vein being one of them.

There is also the possible connection to real life sports. But that is what I base this on. Real life sports can be an entertaining event to watch with people physically battling it out on a real life arena.

When the entire event is virtual it loses alot of the lure to be an enticing live event. Sure in one country it has a following but is this more of a cultural event or is merely a sign of things to come?

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Squapper]

To me, watching soccer doesn't seam like entertainment. Look at when a couple of kids are kicking ball at the school yard, do you see people watching the action? No, those who are interrested in the game wants to jump in too.

However, i DO enyoy watching Starcraft matches, to learn from the masters and to watch spectacular moves. There's definitely a market for theese events, perhaps even a bigger market than for minor sports like tennis or pool.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[blast flame]

"Does anyone see a market for this sort of event? Gaming - a predominantly solo event (yes we can argue that it is 'social' when gaming online but thats another discussions) does not lend itself well to passive viewing. Isnt this one of the main arguements as to why gamers (myself included) claim that it takes consumer entertainment to a different level? Because unlike television where the viewer sits there; the gamer is immersing him (or her) self in the game world and experience and is the catalyst rather than the recepticle. Look at LAN parties, do you see people sat back watching the action in large numbers? No, instead everyone sees that Dust is on and jumps into the action. Games just arent fun to watch. To me it just doesnt seem like entertainment, I dont want to watch other people play games I want to play it myself - thats what games are for." One could say the same for sport too.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[PhrostyMcByte]

I definately don't want to just watch random people play games - G4 already had stuff like that, last time I flipped to them (many years ago). Does anyone actually watch their midnight run of "playing games to techno" filler?

I wouldn't mind seeing some of the big competition matches occasionally - Fatal1ty, et al. Players who actually have some strategy can be pretty entertaining. Given the amount of high profile competitions that go on these days, they should have no shortage of footage.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[addie]

Does anyone see a market for this sort of event?

Well, I live in South Korea. There is definitely a market for this, but the question is... is there a western market? There are two channels on my basic cable setup that show live gaming competitions exclusively. There's no gaming news, no gaming documentaries, nothing but live gaming action. One of the channels is StarCraft almost 24/7, but the other one varies quite a bit. Counterstrike and FIFA are popular, but I've also seen such strange stuff as 1v1 WoW duels, and ping pong. When I first moved here, I watched some of it out of interest, but it gets old very, very fast. That may be because my Korean isn't great, and I can't fully understand the commentary. Or it may just be what the parent poster says, "gaming ... does not lend itself well to passive viewing". I'd tend to agree.

As with anything, money is what matters. Some of these kids make upwards of six figures and do nothing but game. They live together and play together. This is serious stuff. As soon as some advertisers in the US figure out how much branding they can stick on these gamers' uniforms, rigs, headsets, etc then I predict things may start happening. But don't expect me to watch it.

That all said, when I walk past the studio in the COEX mall and see a huge crowd (of males AND females) cheering, oohing, and ahhhing as the headshots fly... well who am I to judge?

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[SamSim]

Gaming does not lend itself well to passive viewing.

Agreed - but that's because nobody has made a game with this specific aim in mind - yet. All games are designed so that they are enjoyable from the point of view of one player - not from the point of view of an observer. A game like Counter-Strike doesn't lend itself well to spectation because it's impossible to follow more than one person at once, but there might be three dozen people you need to keep track of to make sense of the flow of the game. Football, by comparison, is better, because you only need to keep your eye on one thing: the ball.

I am almost certain that very soon manufacturers will begin making games with the spectators in mind as well as the players. It's only a matter of WHEN somebody will realise there's money in it.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone see a market for this sort of event?
 
I wouldn't watch more than ten minutes myself, but keep in mind there are world class sports that are now in the olympics that I can't for the life of me imagine why someone would watch it. Figure skating is a pretty high one on that list of why is this on TV? I never would have believed there was a market for watching somebody hold one leg up in the air while spinning on a thin piece of metal over ice, but there is, go figure.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Ironsides]

Look at LAN parties, do you see people sat back watching the action in large numbers? No, instead everyone sees that Dust is on and jumps into the action. Games just arent fun to watch.

To me it just doesnt seem like entertainment, I dont want to watch other people play games I want to play it myself - thats what games are for.

I watch people play the games. Especially DDR and fighting games. I find it more interesting than sports, actually. Super Smash Bros is a fun one to watch from outside the game as you get to laugh at all the ways people die.

The main problem with this is going to be the FPS games as there is no way to see everything at once. They would have to come up with a complete interface for the audience to see the whole field at once for the genre. Otherwise, if the action is taking place in two places, you're going to miss out on something.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Yumi Saotome]

There is most certainly a market for this.

For example, I actually detest Street Fighter III, Third Strike but look at:
The Infamous Daigo Parry
KO versus Daigo

which I admit were some of the greatest gaming footage I had ever seen. Listen to how the audience goes nuts during the entire thing; it was like watching art unravel before your eyes. The most telling thing was that a lot of the people in the audience knew aboslutely nothing about the game, but were going nuts anyways.

I also think a game show like Game Center CX from Japan would work well in the states. They take a comedian who plays through retro games and attempts to beat them before midnight. Arino Shinya's attempt to go through Ghouls and Goblins and his reactions to and comments on the game were pretty hilarious.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

hltv is designed for this purpose

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[sgtrock]

It depends upon both the game engine and how it's filmed. Flying spectator cameras that were either independent of a person or would follow individuals have been around since at least Quake. Anyone else here ever log in on the old Online Gaming League to watch live ladder matches?

Personally, I'd be happy with some sort of split screen view. Say, a center overview map with smaller cameras following the action around the edges of it. Maybe bounce one of the edge camera views into the middle if a producer sees something developing.

Never going to happen in my lifetime, though. Broadcast media seems to be stuck on single viewpoints at a time. They've forgotten that the whole reason sports was filmed from single viewpoints in the past was because of technical limitations.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Neoncow]

Tip: Use the

tag to quote something (don't forget the

closing tag), so those reading your post don't have to skim a repeated chunk of text before getting to your content.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Txiasaeia]

I just arrived in South Korea two weeks ago from Canada, so perhaps I'm in a position to comment. I was shocked to see that my cable package included not one, but two games dedicated to PC gaming. One of these channels shows StarCraft games 24/7. Believe it or not, it's actually entertaining to watch these Korean kids duke it out in SC: there's no turtling, no slow and ponderous building of bases, but a fast-paced, exciting game in which both players execute multiple faints, ripostes, hit-and-run attacks, and finally the crushing defeat when one player's last nexus or hive comes crashing down. They usually don't go on for too long, but it's fascinating to see the dexterity and skill of these players. It's also very interesting to see reaction shots from the players when one of their strategies is foiled by their opponents, or when they mop up that last straggler on the map.

It's very, very interesting to watch. I'm not into StarCraft in a big way, but I can stand to watch a few games per week. I never thought I'd enjoy watching live games of a video game, but once you take in a few, it's hard not to see the appeal.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Neoncow]

The main problem with this is going to be the FPS games as there is no way to see everything at once. They would have to come up with a complete interface for the audience to see the whole field at once for the genre. Otherwise, if the action is taking place in two places, you're going to miss out on something.

Doesn't CS have a map interface where you can watch the match from a bird's eye point of view? You could hire people who understand the game to comment about the action as it unfolds. Since the game is presumably being recorded, you would instantly replay any segment from any conceivable angle. Commentators and instant replay are pretty catchy names.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

I know the final match at a BF2 tournament that took place a few weeks ago was recorded and we had close to 150 people watching it go down. I'm not sure what they did for camera set up as I was too busy in the match to look up. I think they had a few screens and just had each spectator following a cap point. I'm relatively sure they got a nice birds eye view of me knifing one of the other dudes. But anyway my point is that there was a lot of crowd reaction, especially since it was such a close match. Also, ours was a fairly unprofessional (it was all for fun and non-profit) so I imagine if they had a bigger/better budget then I'm sure the camera work could be more complex and follow the match better.
I've also heard that Battlefield has a built in recorder which monitors how the game is progressing, not just how each player is playing.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Ironsides]

Doesn't CS have a map interface where you can watch the match from a bird's eye point of view?

Never played it so I can't say. One problem with birds eye views is that if you have multiple levels and can go inside of buildings or (as in several levels in other games I know of) it all takes place inside a cave, a birds eye isn't that useful. About the only thing I can figure out that would be needed would be a 3d radar map that would tell you where everyone is and some birds eyes of where the action is. Along with, as you say, people comentating on what is going on.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[dingDaShan]

Of course there is a market for this. Maybe not 24/7 gaming, but the occasional tournament will definitely be on there. I play Call of Duty 2 online and used to play Warcraft III online and have encountered amazing players. I would definitely enjoy seeing these players match up. Think of baseball. I know a lot of people that say baseball is boring to watch but fun to play. However, there are as many people that love watching baseball. Once there is an understanding of the game, the nuances involved in playing it can be appreciated all the more. Forget whether its a sport or a game or cyberathletes or anything... what it comes down to is whether or not one can appreciate the excitement involved. I say there is a market and the market keeps growing.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[jinxidoru]

I disagree. We have a game room at work with twelve computers. We generally play Unreal. If all of the computers are filled, many times I will still stick around and watch the other players play for a little while. I prefer to play, but I enjoy watching other people play. I especially enjoy watching really talented people play. The difficult part I think would be getting good visual shots. The best view for watching the action as a spectator would not be from a player's screen. A third-person view would be much better. So, I think the best way to turn this into entertaining television would be to record the world during the entire game. Then you could go back and fly a camera around to any location you wanted. Granted, I don't think any game permits a recording of the entire game world, but it would be possible.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Neoncow]

Yeah, I didn't think of the fact that they are 3D. I do believe that the CS maps have 3D controls and it wouldn't surprise me if most other FPS replay applications had 3D interfaces. My assumption would be that the view shown to the audience would be controlled by the commentators or at least directed by their comments. As with sports commentators, video game commentators are probably former gamers themselves, so controlling these interfaces would be second nature for them.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[personman21]

So I guess nobody watches the NFL, MLB, NHL, etc. Take a look at some speed runs in video games, or even compedative matches at http://www.mlgpro.com/ or http://www.halo-pro.com/cgi/index.php

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, you can't play games all the time, at least when you're out of your teens. At minimum, I need an hour to cool down afterwards so I can sleep, and also can't play games when I'm eating dinner. Some days I'm just too tired after work to pick up my flak cannon or beat up Bowser.

So, what I often do is read about games, chat online about games (like right now), and sometimes even listen to podcasts about games. TV about games fits into that very nicely, I download trailers and gameplay footage for games I'm interested in all the time, and I watch Consolevania (a game review show). So, there certainly is potential for game related TV.

I don't think actually watching competitive games would be much fun though. Exhibition matches to show off what a skilled player can do, and illustrate advanced tactics, maybe - like speedruns or the Ikaruga video. That's kinda interesting. But just watching a CTF game? Nah.

Incidently, I don't actually have a TV, games are better. :)

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[DavidD_CA]

I think it's interesting to watch highlights, or particularly impressive moves/strategies, etc... but I can't see myself sitting down for 1-2 hours and watching it straight.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Ironsides]

Ah, but the commentators would have experience controlling the view from the first person perspective, and more importantly, from the perspective of one teams side. If I'm watching, I'm going to want a "Grand Strategy" (think a generals) overview instead of a single players perspective. Watching a game from over one persons shoulder is a lot different than trying to watch both teams at once. Kind of like in a football game, the difference between a helmet cam and what you see from above the field.

Actually, you could probably get the sports anouncers to give some tips on what needs to be shown and leave the announcing to the players.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[grev]

You have obviously never heard of events like WCG, CPL, ESWC, CSA, WSVG, CEVO, KODE5, Lethal Gamers, Dreamhack, the list goes on. Actually, you probably have never heard of Intel, AMD, ATI, Nvidia, Steelpad, Icemat, Sennheiser, PNY, EVGA, etc. That's a list of a few of the companies that sponsor gaming organizations. Gaming is NOT predominantly a solo even, as the #1 game at these tournaments is usually Counter Strike 1.6. Go take a trip down to Dallas and check out CPL Winter, you won't be bored.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[symbolic]

I used to watch warcraft replays all the time - and those of other games - like Rise of Nations (I think that was it). I found watching good players to be quite intriguing- especially embracing the notion that "it's not over 'til it's over." I've seen some great comebacks that didn't seem at all likely based on how the game was progressing. Good stuff.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Neoncow]

It would be a very small leap for an announcer to control a view of both sides. (With the assumption that the announcer is a former player). Remember that announcers wouldn't be controlling both teams or directing the action at all (we'll leave that to the commander), so they would have much more attention to dedicate to spotting interesting events (battles, non-standard strategies, interesting deployments etc.) and directing the audiences view.

Using the football example, think of how a football coach must go from the player perspective to directing the plays (the Grand Strategy of the field ;).

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think those videos are great examples of why video game spectating has such limited potential.

People who've never played SF3 can't really understand why the Daigo Parry is so amazing. There's nothing to relate to if you havn't played SF3 a somewhat decent amount.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[wolfi]

To me it just doesnt seem like entertainment, I dont want to watch other people play games I want to play it myself - thats what games are for.

That is of course the reason why sports broadcasts (soccer, basketball, baseball, football et al) are so unpopular around the world.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except in those games you're there to watch the entire team play and only have to follow the ball. In a FPS deathmatch, or even in CTF, you have dozens of people to keep track off and no way to see what they're all doing at once.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

To me it just doesnt seem like entertainment, I dont want to watch other people play games I want to play it myself - thats what games are for.

I agree. Watching others play video games is about as exciting as watching paint dry.

I remember when I was in my early teens, in the mid-1980's, going to the downtown arcade with friends. This was when video arcades were seedy shitholes. After wading past all the metalheads, who were always trying to sell you a gram of hash oil* or some acid, I'd play Dragon's Lair or Pole Position. Of course since I sucked so bad at both games I usually burned through all my quarters fairly quickly. Then I would sit around waiting for my friends to finish, staring at the screens, waiting impatiently. And my friends played much better than I did, so sometimes I ended up waiting a long time. Christ it was dull! I guess I should've saved my money and bought a gram of oil instead, ;-).

* the rumour was that the 'hash oil' the skids were selling was nothing more than vaseline and motor oil mixed together.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[nametaken]

You make it sound a lot more exciting than I expected. We had a channel or two here on our digital cable (chicagoland) that played game tournaments a bunch. The tournaments were usually some fps, and it was probably the worst few minutes of TV I've ever seen.

It sounds like Starcraft is much better, but I guess that makes sense since the visualization of strategy games like that is much easier to digest. Personally, I can't stand fps games because it's just too much too fast, with too little time to think. Maybe I'm just too thick for them. :)

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Snaller]

Games just arent fun to watch.

That's how i feel about football - there are clearly people who disagree.

Of course there will be people to watch this, as they pointed out it has caught on in other places of the world. Its a new kind of sports, one that won't get you in good shape.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[BoberFett]

I can't believe poker has as many hours of dedicated broadcasting as it does, but there it is. Frankly, I'm no longer surprised by some of the stupid shit that passes for entertainment nowadays.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was watching my sister play World of Warcraft on her Sony Vaio laptop. Her guild was going into some dungeon with these big rock lava type monsters and fiery plasma monsters as well. It was quite fascinating to see 40 or so odd collection of characters go on adventure and hearing the voice chat of one of the players, obviously , the leader of the group, orchestrating the attack of the whole group. He was saying things like, "Ok tanks move in first...guys step back wait for the others...ok good job team...", etc. It was also interesting to see that the other players, especially the rogues in my sister's group where she plays a female Paladin, thank her on the chat screen for healing them while they were attacking the monsters. My sister responded by saying that others were helping too. I saw my sister kept healing the rogues which, she mentioned, did a lot, if not most of the damage, but had to be healed because they didn't have high hp or armor and tended to die more quickly unless they were healed. Although obviously envious of her having the time and subscription to play and wanting to play as well instead of just watching, it was also entertaining to just watch. I think it could be like a reality tv show of a live online game. How ironic.

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[l33t_f33t]

or too smart?

Re:Is there really a market for this?

[*BBC*PipTigger]

I think this highlights a key point: skill.

My roommate and I were chatting last night about why G4 sucks so badly that you're now much more likely to find Arrested Development, Fastlane, or Star Trek being shown than anything game related. I claimed that it's not *that* difficult to construct an interesting game channel... as long as you sprinkle "hardcore" gamers around... instead of the gaping void that G4 is unaware of. Now, by hardcore, I don't mean people who love get drunk and spew racial epithets over XBox Live more than they love themselves or their families. I mean people who are vigorous, passionate, intelligent, critical, etc. gamers at least within a genre of their expertise. My roommate claims that G4 has to make money and that intelligence doesn't sell and so G4/*TechTV* is focusing more on their tech-nerd appeal side to stay afloat... and that what I really want is PipTV made just for me. His points are almost good. My response:

"Look at Edge magazine! Televize an eighth of that zeal for gaming, analysis, cultural relevance, development studios and practices, strategies, nostalgia, etc. and I would be happy. It doesn't need to be only what I want... but it should have *some* shows that I at least care about. Victor Lucas seemed to be the only guy on the channel with any sense and he's never on anymore because he's not as voluptuous as Morgan Webb."

I'm trying to get back to my point here. You might think that games are not as fun to watch as a TV show because you'd much rather play them than just passively observe. Maybe this is generally true of serious gamers but I'm hardcore and I like to watch my roommate play Final Fantasy or Saint's Row even though I can hardly stand to play them myself. They have decently fun stories. When I get home with In-N-Out Burger or Taco Bell in-hand, I'd love to flip on some top tournament play or time trials or shit like the thousand Trackmania cars video from last week while I eat.

Let me digress again for a moment. There used to be a segment on G4 called Screenshots (or something similarly unappealing and insufficient as a descriptor of the gems they contained) where you'd hear the voice-over of a hardcore gamer describing their preparation and strategy for accomplishing some remarkable gaming feat as you watched their in-game performance of it. The three I remember are Parking Challenge Number 5 from some big-rig game, the original Tomb Raider training section speed run, and an SSX million-point run. These tiny segments remain as my favorites from all the G4 I have seen. There are so many games in the world. There are so many skilled gamers. How fscking hard is it to show skill?! Instead, we get millions of stupid skits with interns about nerd stereotypes that border on more offensive than celebratory. Then we have the Collins College commercials where idiots are wanting to entice other idiots to "train to make games in less time than most people think." Maybe most people don't think. Ugh.

In Korea, they show awesome play. You can observe and appreciate just player dexterity if you have shallow understanding of the genre or the title. You can enjoy strategy and drama if you know more. You can learn new tactics if you are a player or competitor... etc.. I am a hardcore fighting game player. If I could regularly watch top Soul Calibur, Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, or Virtua Fighter play, maybe with serious announcers who know the players and their histories etc. just like professional sportscasters, I would be stoked. You could have slow-motion replays where the announcers highlight subtleties that the casual observer would miss. You could show close-ups of the players' faces *and* their hands. Showing exquisite tournament play of any genre, or amazing runs of even single-player games, would be infinitely better than the crap-tastic review segments where whenever they show game footage, it's from some retard's first hour with the title who couldn't be bothered to learn the control scheme an

The Competition

[headkase]

You might end up getting fragged by an eight year old.

Re:The Competition

[Anonymous Coward]

I feel for this kid, he'll be a looser al his life. My definition of looser is what he'll accomplish from a life journey of playing games, nothing. Nothing is exactly what anybody accomplishes by playing games and watching tv. I guess slashdot has many loosers though.

So long, loosers.

Re:The Competition

[8ball629]

We'll just let Jesus Quintano take care of the eight year olds - dude.

Re:The Competition

[8ball629]

Fatal1ty has done pretty well for himself, hasn't he?

They forgot tribes...

[Anonymous Coward]

How the hell can you forget tribes?

It was you charlie...

[Anonymous Coward]

... I coulda been a contender!

But seriously, how long before the betting racket gets in on this and people start taking falls, so to speak? Or are they already in on it?

Oddly enough, my confirm I'm not a script word for this post is "gangland". "They" know...

WCG

[GotenXiao]

At Multiplay's i28 over here in the UK, we had the World Cyber Games finals for the UK. The marquee that Samsung had setup was packed solid for the "major" events (like CS: Source, CS 1.6, and watching Wizzo get owned by Fatal1ty -2 to 42). As I recall, the event was broadcast live over the net, too.

Then again, lots of us were there for the free swag ;)

How to view this channel

[Anonymous Coward]

I have just moved to USA a few weeks ago.
Any ideas what I need to view this experimental airing? I only have the public channels here. Will I be able to view this new channel if I have cable? or do I need a satellite dish?

I would love to watch the CPL. Some awesome games there.

For people who think games are not interesting because there are solo in nature, this is simply not true. Yes, solo games are not interesting to watch, but there are many 1v1 games and team games that are incredibly interesting to watch. FPS games jump to mind (Watching Q3 1v1 is an incredible satisfying experience). Real time strategy games are also very interesting to watch (Warcraft 3, starcraft... etc). In both games, you also get team games, which are also very interesting.

Re:How to view this channel

[Anonymous Coward]

DirecTV is a satellite company, you need dish - THEIR dish - to view.

Videogame a sport ?

[Chaffar]

the Cyberathlete Professional League (CPL)

Despite the fact that I'm a hardcore videogame player I don't like the idea of associating it to a sport. Sports have set rules, and you hone your skills for years in order to become the best. Videogames, on the other hand, will see your best stats nerfed, rules changed, new versions coming out, maps modified. It's like a basketball player who focused on his speed to outplay others, and who suddenly is given a pair of shackles because the creators thought that he was "running too fast for the good of the game", and forced to play on newly-waxed hardwood floor. Snooker isn't played by athletes, neither are darts. Videogames are no different than those skill-based games.

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[Troed]

Videogames, on the other hand, will see your best stats nerfed, rules changed, new versions coming out, maps modified

Formula 1, on the other hand, will see your best stats nerfed, rules changed, new versions coming out, maps modified

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[Chaffar]

Point well-made, however there is a big difference. Formula 1 is a sport where the drivers lose 4kg of water every race; It is a physically painful experience. Do you think supporting lateral G's the way they do is given to anyone? They have to go through months of training just to not have their necks snapped on the first turn they take at 250 km/h. But in broader sense, I still think that there is no "stable" skillset that every videogamer must have in order to achieve 1337 skills. And that's why it's hard to consider it a sport. In Formula 1, you (usually) start by karting, and work your way up to F1. I don't think nowadays people play Wolfenstein 3D to get to play the latest FPS in a championship :)

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[Antony.S]

Obviously that's why you never see players transferring from one game to the other as time progresses. /me has a look at the last decade of FPS gaming.

Oh wait, you do.

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[Chaffar]

Not because they become better players, but becomes the old game becomes obsolete. Not the same.

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[Anonymous Coward]

um darts is now broadcast on television.
so is billiards/pool

Your argument is bad. I have participated in a CPL event before. It takes years to get to a certain level of playing. The rules, those issued by CPL do not change much. You wanna talk about maps modified, how about the jump from real grass to astro-turf in American Football...or the three point line in basketball. Its called evolution.

While gaming is not a sport, it is competitive entertainment, much like golf :)

The hardest thing that gaming has going against it is its spectatability, its just hard to watch all the action, nay impossible to see the entire perspective.

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[DohnJoe]

an even bigger difference is that videogames are accessible to mostly everybody (if you have some money), young and old, fat and thin, etc.... while F1 is just for a happy few.
Of course only a few will be good enough to be able to compete on a national championship but at least everybody can experience it and therefore relate more to it.
If I watch F1 I can't really tell how difficult it is to do, I never tried anything remotely similar, but if I see someone ruling a deathmatch I'll know how good he is...

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[Anonymous Coward]

For 9 years I've been part of these gaming tournaments and can assure you that there are specific skills that must be developed to rate as a top professional gamer. Things like hand-eye coordination, reaction time, pixel acurate aim, focused concentration and precise strategy execution, all come to play and can determine the difference between a win or a lose at these high-stake tournaments.

Competing at the CPL is not the same as playing videogames at your home, as playing pro baseball is not quite the same as tossing a ball with your dad in the backyard. For home play the CPL has an online league named "CAL" (Cyberathlete Amatuer League) but the serious gameplay takes place live on location, in front of spectators, television cameras, officials, etc. You may have to experience it to understand the appeal.

Angel Munox, founder & president
Cyberathlete Professional League

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[Fluffy the attack ki]

Your analogy is not entirely unlike a young player jumping from Halo(2) to a more complex PC FPS, I'd say. Although instead of a car company of some sort sponsoring their equipment it is generally their parents.

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[blast flame]

Video games are not a sport. Infact I feel modaratly insulted that they are called such. They are better than sport. Video games need brains, sport needs brawn. Video games have storylines, art, soundtrack and skillful design, sport does not. Video games evolve, sport remains as stale as ever.

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[oskard]

Hey Angel Munoz,

You spelled your last name wrong.

www.gamebangers.net

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[Lisandro]

I can't tell if were being facetious, but if you weren't i suggest you go out and give sport a try. ANY sport.

You'd be surprised.

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[drsquare]

Formula 1 is based on real life physics which are constant, not arbitrary physics which can be changed with a single slider.

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[tepples]

Video games need brains, sport needs brawn.

You underestimate the amount of thinking that goes into playing ball at the professional level. And are you calling top-rank chess not a sport?

Video games have storylines, art, soundtrack and skillful design, sport does not.

O rly? Even if you don't accept professional rasslin as a sport, there are plenty of art and soundtrack in televised ball, and there's still plenty of drama in (say) steroid scandals.

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[frickendevil]

So snooker and darts dont take years to master? Please, a video game veteran will easily beat a person who has been playing it a couple of weeks and has learned a trick or two.

Sports I can guarantee have no such thing as "set rules". Sports constantly evolve, like your gimp night elf druid. Lets take an example, in rugby union (and rugby league) there are things called scrums. This involves the six largest players on each team push each other (in dual triangle formation) while the ball is fed into the middle of the pack. Usually the team with the larger players would outpush the other team fast enough to get the ball, even if it wasn't their feed. Now however (since the rules have changed) the person feeding the ball can throw it directly through the first lines legs to the second line of the scrum to have a nearly guaranteed possession. This made faster teams (instead of stronger teams) more favourable as there was now less use for the larger players. OMG TEH LEARGE PLYERS G0T NERFED FIX PLZ!!!!!! Please note that stealing the ball can still occur in union as the scrums are managed slightly differently.

Now rugby is a professional sport, but the rules changed. What makes a good athlete is one that can EVOLVE with the sport. Putting it bluntly, if they decide to nerf a skill of a character you relied on, then you would be able to gank more noobs with another.

Also, with your basketball analogy, it wouldnt be the single player suffering, because everyone relies on some form of movement, and everyone would be slowed down somewhat, and he would still be relatively faster then the other players.

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[Millenniumman]

Are you calling chess a sport?

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree completely. Formula 1 is not a sport, either.

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[Snaller]

This seems like mostly a pointless argument about semantics.

People have to train to get good at these games, hence there is a different between who wins and who looses. The games have rules - and sometimes they must be changed for one reason or another - just like many sports games have had their rules changed. The fact that its not particularly physically taxing is not relveant. Sure Merriam-Webster describes it among other things as "a particular activity (as an athletic game) so engaged in" but also "a source of diversion" or "to amuse oneself".

I don't doubt it will come, be profitable - and over time the old sports may well fall by the wayside. New generations form their new rules while the old shake their heads in frozen fury.

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[blast flame]

I was forced to play sport in high school. I hated every second of it.

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[blast flame]

Chess is not a sport, it is a video game predecessor. Cheating and hacking is the equivlent of sports steriod scandles. Saying that putting soundtracks and art on top of sport gives it those qualitys is like saying playing a piano next to a silent movie means it isn't silent.

Re:Videogame a sport ?

[Lisandro]

I was forced to eat vegetables when i was a kid. I also hated every second of it. Doesn't mean i couldn't grow to like them, or that they where inherently bad,

Hmm

[PrivateDonut]

I think Dead or Alive and Project Gotham will be the biggest two games there, since there is such a large propensity for style. Halo and CS will get boring to watch as the same thing is happening game-in game-out, but Project Gotham can have drift tourneys or drags or anything associated with cars today and DOA can have anything from massive brawls down to one-on-one fights or even 3-on-1 fights (does DOA let you?).

My definition of a loser

[Anonymous Coward]

is someone who can't spell "loser".

Could be done right

[Anonymous Coward]

You have to keep the big picture in mind here. This doesn't have to be live gaming.

BF2 already has a battlerecorder built in (not that any servers use it).

If you unleashed a small army of talented post production people with the skills to place cameras in an already played event, it could become entirely watchable.

You could event capture player face expressions with webcams during play and map them to the players avatars in post.

This could be rendered far better than any gaming rig could handle.

I think it would make great television if done right.

Re:Could be done right

[stigmato]

Not a bad idea at all, I'd +1 Interesting you if I didn't already use my points.

Re:Could be done right

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the best idea I've seen on Slashdot in a while. I would definitely watch something like this. Although I'm one of the geeks who would watch live events on a network like this too.

Cable? TV?

[Crisses]

You mean that thing I use for the PlayStation?

What gods-honest self-respecting geek has cable? That would be a distraction from gaming and programming!

I actually have cable service, now that I think of it -- but only for my ISP.

Re:Cable? TV?

[Watson Ladd]

So how do you watch Battleship Galactica and Stargate?

Slightly OT

[Anonymous Coward]

What will Jack Thompson say?

Re:Cable? TV?

[blast flame]

That's one of the problems I have with this. It's aimed at "jocks" not geeks.

The G4 flop

[a_greer2005]

...proves that people here would much rather play games than watch other guys do it!

There is a reason that a "gaming channel" now shows nothing but startrek and the man show.

Uh, no.

[spiritraveller]

Is this the first step to escalating videogames to the status of the X-Games and poker?

No. I cannot think of anything more boring than watching someone else play a video game. There is nothing dangerous happening. There is nothing all that interesting happening. It's akin to watching someone else watching a movie.

Seriously, statements like the one quoted above just demonstrate the author's misguided desire that someday other people will share their love of video games... and maybe, just maybe their otherwise useless skill at Quake will get them some sort of notoriety, beyond other gamers.

Ain't gonna happen. It's a toy. There's nothing wrong with that. Just be real about it. Mmmmmmkay?

Re:Uh, no.

[badboy_tw2002]

I would have tended to agree with you, and then I happened to see the final of a battlefield 2(xbox, ps2) tournement. The prize money was split $200,000 / $50,000, so there was a lot of cash on the table. Saying that having "nothing on the line" is not true. Sure, filming a bunch of guys playing poker in their kitchen isn't really interesting, but filming the best poker players in the world playing for $2 million (so you know they're giving it their all out best) is exciting and can produce moments of tension, suspense, and that sort of proxy thrill you get from any sporting event where the team/player you're rooting for wins. This was really no different. I've been an avid player of the game, so I knew a lot about the strategy, tactics, and skill that it takes to play the game. I was incredibly impressed with how these guys pulled together, had everything coordinated, pulled off some awesome kills and had so much invested in the game. The main difference is how people relate to the sport being played. If I don't know anything about a game, then I really don't get whats going on. For the uninformed, poker championships look like random luck, and race car drivers are just dudes going around in a circle really fast. Generally the presentation of these sports don't give the viewer a sense of the skill and dedication the players have put into traning for the event. Physical sports offer more of a common ground for viewers (man that guy can run fast!), so until you've gotten cleaned out by a good poker player or trounced in chess before you knew what was happening, you don't have have an appreciation for the game. All thats really needed for something like this is a true appreciation for what it takes to play the game, and an audience large enough to watch it. I doubt that really exists in this country today, but its worked in other places (see Starcraft and Korea), so there's no reason to think it can't happen here.

Just in time!

[chrismcdirty]

Thanks for the timely story! I just tuned into channel 101 to see if I could catch some action on it. Want to know what I saw? CDUSA! And from the looks of things, it will be on channel 101 for the entire day! I'd like to thank you for the timely submission of this story, as when I follow the link, it tells me it was also shown on Friday and Saturday. Although, since it was 8:30am when I checked the channel and it wasn't on, it's possible that it wasn't on Friday and Saturday to begin with.

Re:Just in time!

[Aaron32]

I'm glad you wrote this. I too turned on my DirecTV and saw the stupid CD USA show. It looks like a bunch of teenie boppers playing bad music.

Anyways, I went back (as my wonderful Tivo does) to the previous days and I saw that it was on Saturday, but not Friday. CD USA was on Friday.

And yes, I appreciate a story telling me to watch something a day before the story came out as well.

Re:Cable? TV?

[Crisses]

> So how do you watch Battleship Galactica and Stargate?

I downloaded the pilot of Firefly from iTunes and we have all the Star Trek originals on DVD. Computers and playstations play DVDs :)

Never having watched Stargate or Battlestar Galatica, I don't miss them ;)

Re:Cable? TV?

[Crisses]

While I know some geeks that go to LAN parties, I don't know any diehard geeks who go to tournaments. Geeks don't show off, and they get paid just fine to code or support systems -- wasting hundreds of hours in tournaments for the golden carrot isn't a geek's style.

I respectfully agree about "jocks" -- or maybe they're donkeys lured by the carrots. Some are social parasites, wanting to climb on the backs of the downtrodden to get their moment of fame. You see that type in the business world all the time (I won't name names, but I can spell out some initials *cough* BG) -- some of whom *BG* were once something resembling geeks.

Most geeks can't be bothered. Most geeks don't have the social wherewithal to know that you CAN climb on the backs of the downtrodden. Besides, that would be too much like getting exercise!

Re:Cable? TV?

[KDR_11k]

With Bittorrent?

It just won't be the same without Fred Savage...

[Telephone Sanitizer]

Or his autistic brother.

Because...

[Anonymous Coward]

Arena was such a big hit?

Airing information

[Caduceus1]

Since there are so many questions:

- This is only on DirecTV. Don't have DirecTV? You ain't gonna see it.

- It airs on Channel 101 (normally CDUSA) in the late evening.

- Tonight (9/10), you can catch all three episodes, plus some animated shorts in between, starting at 6PM ET. Check your EPG to be sure - the west coast may have second feed that would air it later.

Re:Airing information

[_Sharp'r_]

This is only on DirecTV. Don't have DirecTV? You ain't gonna see it.

Of course, similar content has been available in high definition 24x7x365 on GamePlay HD via Voom and Dishnetwork for over a year, so while the story makes this sound like some DirecTV breakthrough, it's actually them just starting to play a little catchup with Dishnetwork.

The game tournaments are fun to watch if you like the strategy elements. It helps a LOT if you've played the particular game that they're playing in the tournament, because it's tough to actually appreciate what you are watching otherwise.

Every culture has its own weird customs

[Neoncow]

Every culture has its own weird customs. About a year ago, I spent six weeks in North Korea where the principal form of recreation was juggling geese. Baby geese. Goslings. They were juggled!

Re:Every culture has its own weird customs

[Adam Whisnant]

Where are my mod points? Where, I ask you?

Why watch the games on TV when you could play?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't people rather play these games than watch them on television? In Project Entropia, for example, pro gamers can get paid to play (I'm assuming the TV gamers are getting paid too), and non-pro gamers can pay to play with the pros on somewhat equal footing. Isn't this a better model for professional gaming than the TV or contest models?

GamePlay HD on Dish Network

[net_oholic]

I've watched a few tournaments that've aired on GamePlay HD. It's one of the VOOM networks that are on Dish Network. I have to say, if you want to watch the gaming, you have to do it in HD. Regular SD television can never show the full resolution inside the game, and so have to rely on boring interviews and hype.

Helmet-cam baseball?

[tepples]

They've forgotten that the whole reason sports was filmed from single viewpoints in the past was because of technical limitations.

What about the expectations of the audience? Do you think the median cable sports viewer would be able to follow a baseball game where all video comes from the players' helmet cams?

Re:Helmet-cam baseball?

[sgtrock]

No, but you pick a good example. For baseball, I'd love to see:

A center view of the whole field. A close up cam of the batter. Another of the pitcher. Isolation shots of baserunners. The usual closeup shots of the crowd. etc.

Better yet, I'd love to have a means of choosing which view I'd have in the center and which should be around the edges. It's not really feasible to broadcast that much data for a live action video stream, but it should be doable for a computer game broadcast.

of course we'll get gaming on TV...

[YesIAmAScript]

Everything is on TV now.

While a very few channels (mostly the networks) try to increase return on investment by spending more hoping to attract more viewers, the majority of channels try to increase return on investment by spending less hoping to get the same number of viewers.

Given that by far most content on TV is not original, but licensed from someone else (typically a repeat), the key is to OWN YOUR OWN CONTENT. This is why ESPN created the X-games, because they own all the rights to the event and can show the content in reruns forever for free.

More recently, they (and everyone else) have jumped on poker. You don't actually have to pay anyone who is in the tournament, it's a pari-mutuel, they pay each other. You only pay the cost to film it and then show it over and over and over.

So of course they'll jump on televising compute gaming. No one in the events owns their own publicity rights, so you either put on the event or buy the rights from the people who do put it on and you're home free with some cheap content.

But don't get an idea it's because of some sudden maturity of computer gaming. It's more because the immaturity of computer gaming means the "athletes" don't get paid squat. It's just another form of reality TV, just like sporting events and awards shows. Think of it as "Survivor" with WASD.

Re:of course we'll get gaming on TV...

[lupine_stalker]

I don't know. Australia is only taking its first steps into gaming television, and the most recent attempt, called Cybershack, was absolutely dreadful. Apparently, it has alienated enough of the hardcore games it was meant to attract that it is trying to rebrand itself as a "popular tech" show.

Karting a sport ?

[tepples]

In Formula 1, you (usually) start by karting

Do they have motherfcuking snakers too?

there's a market for anything

[Scudsucker]

I always thought it was rediculous to have poker games broadcast on a sports channel, but it seems to be big business for ESPN. I thought it was the lamest thing I ever saw on the network, until they started airing dart tournaments. Jay Leno did a bit around ten years ago on ESSP - the Especially Stupid Sports Network, featuring things like Nordic Trek racing - darts would seem to be just one step above that. If they can do darts and poker, I don't see any reason why they couldn't broadcast a good Counterstrike or Warcraft 3 game.

Mod Parent Up

[WilliamSChips]

I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar.

I'd Love It

[ol2o]

I'd love to see some of the best Unreal 2k players in the world duke it out. As for other people that aren't into it, so what! You aren't into it - yippy.

YYYYYYEEEEESSSSSS!!!!!

[Desolator144]

Yay! now you can all see me playing Dance Dance Revolution on TV!!! I'll be representing Wisconsin and you all better recognize, biches! :-P hehehe. Then again, I haven't played in a while and yesterday I started coughing up a bit of blood after playing Dead End on maniac :( Those millions of trained expert kids from Connecticut or whatever got nothin on me!

I just want the classic competitions back......

[SomeoneGotMyNick]

I'm continuously hoping that G4 brings back the Starcade series again.