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That was a fascinating read (some statistics required). Is the butchers vs neurosurgeons example a commonly used model? It reminds me of an old joke I vaguely remember from when the EU was smaller:

The Europe we want is where the cooks are French, the police are British, the mechanics are German, the lovers are Italian, and the bankers are Swiss.

The Europe we have is where the cooks are British, the police are German, the mechanics are French, the lovers are Swiss, and the bankers are Italian (well the latter is true currently).

There is a reference rate which is "based on a regular daily concertation procedure between central banks across Europe and worldwide". That's what I used when I was earning GBP and paying income tax in EUR.

OK.

Some statistics from the European Union, a union of 27 states with ~500,000,000 people.

Quoting from the European Central Bank's statistics from 2010.

"The total number of non-cash payments in the EU, using all types of instruments [1], increased by 4.4% to 86.4 billion in 2010 compared with the previous year. Card payments accounted for 39% of all transactions, while credit transfers accounted for 28% and direct debits for 25%."

Cheques are not mentioned specifically in the text, but according to the graph on the page, it seems to account to about 5 % of all transactions.

In the table for "Retail transactions" - which includes "bills", it can be found that cheques are mainly used in France. (As well as on Cyprus, and Malta, not exactly large countries.)

The EU is both much more politically complex and is having a much larger population.
The banking systems of the individual countries are much older. The 20 oldest banks still in operation is all European. (JP Morgan Chase, or rather the merged Bank of the Manhattan Company founded in 1799, is on place 23). The first central bank (ever) was founded in Sweden in 1668.

So I don't think that Your arguments are valid.

However, the EU bureaucrats and politicians have the benefit of a totally opaque political system which enables them to implement whatever they like, and they usually like to implement grand plans for integration and standardisation.

In the one-in-a-billion chance that 20 years from now the entire world's economy is being transacted in bitcoins, you'll be a multibillionaire.

I know that "billionaire" part is just a figure of speech, but let's find out how large the bitcoin jackpot really is, for curiosity's sake.

Suppose miraculously bitcoin manage to completely replace both the USD and the Euro tomorrow. There are currently:
980 billion USD in circulation
863 billion Euros in circulation (~1.2 trillion USD)
7.2 million bitcoins in circulation
Thus each bitcoin would be worth approximately 300k USD. Hardly makes you a millionaire, let alone a billionaire.

Disclaimer: I have never taken an economics course in my life and I have been repeatedly characterized as "terminally retarded" in Internet discussions. The above calculations might not land in the right sport, let alone the right ballpark.

Bilderburgers laugh derisively at your attempts to undermine the World Bank, IMF, ECB, and the 'Almighty Dollar' with your pathetic 'currency'. However...Bernie Madoff is intrigued by your ideas and wishes to subscribe to your newsletter.

Our national interest rates would skyrocket

Except China already drastically cut back on its purchases of US debt. As a result, we're borrowing at a whopping 2.5%.

Deficits are bad, we should balance our budgets and pay off our debts, etc.

It's about timing. The government should run large deficits when the economy is crappy. It's the only entity that can justify very large purchases and investments in a down economy. In addition, the budget is artificially hard to balance in a bad economy, because tax revenue is down.

Once the economy recovers, the government should balance the budget and 'pay down' the debt racked up when the economy was bad. Essentially, government spending should be counter-cyclical.

but until we do that, a sudden change in what the US is forced to pay for money could put us in a whole so deep we'd need to default on our loans.

Japan is running massive deficits - 200% GDP (US Deficit: 50% GDP). They are borrowing at....2%. Ireland and Greece rolled out severe austerity programs to balance their budgets. They are borrowing at...6% and 11%. (Source). Concerns that the market will punish countries that run deficits do not seem to bear out in practice.

Deficits are a valid long term problem. But we have far more severe short term problems that need to be solved first.

Each state just changes the picture of the coins (except 1€ coin)

1€ coins also have different "picture" (i.e., national) sides: http://www.ecb.int/euro/coins/1euro/html/index.en.html

Is it me? Or do Norway and Sweden look like a two headed flacid penis?

If you look at early Euro coins then Sweden and Finland looks like a rather normal slightly aroused circumcised penis.

Oh, and did you know Sweden is the third largest country within EU, yeah it's huuge and so loooong, oooh, ooooooh.

Until the M3 figures were pulled by the Fed, the dollar was inflating at around 8-10% per year. It's speculated that has increased since to around 15%. The Pound is inflating at around 15% per year and the Euro by about 12%.

http://www.ecb.int/press/pr/stats/md/html/index.en.html
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/statistics/m4/current/

The CPI and RPI figures are there to keep the ignorant and stupid (That's you... Pick one) happy.

Currencies are becoming rapidly worthless, I recommend you avoid them.

Can anybody explain this huge difference?

This could get political, so please don't take any of these comments as judgments on the personal worth of Americans or Europeans, or about which nations are better that which other ones. There are lots of fine folks on both sides of the pond, and there's more to life than salaries and GDP. I'm just trying to explain the salary difference, since you asked. I'll just throw these possible reasons out there and we'll see what sticks...

According to an article in The Economist earlier this year (sorry, don't have a link), American companies get a higher ROI (usually measured in increased productivity) on investments in IT projects (this actually goes with the company, not the worker, so it's probably down to management, but in any case a higher "R" makes you willing to be a little more free with the "I").

Also, Europeans work significantly fewer hours per year than Americans, on average. Like 15% fewer, according to that linked speech from the President of the European Central Bank. Looking at the yearly salary, then, distorts the figure for how much people are being paid for each unit of labor input (though, even per hour worked, Americans are more productive, so that further raises the value of the labor to the company).

Put another way, according to that same ECB article the US has a 50% higher GDP per capita than Europe (Europe's is two-thirds that of the US), so the output is higher, too. And some of that trickles down (not much, but some).

And, of course, unemployment in America is much lower than in Europe (for August, it was 4.6% in the US vs 9% in, e.g, Germany). If you have twice as many people looking for jobs, well, the employer can offer lower pay and someone will be glad to be earning more than zero.

So, those would make it reasonable for companies in the US to be willing to pay higher salaries.

Plus, it's easier to terminate people without cause in America, which means poor performers with their low salaries (who would otherwise drag down the average) can be taken off your books immediately, without a lengthy process of review and appeal. In some places in Europe, it can take a while to fire someone and may not be possible in borderline cases, and you have to demonstrate cause. Since IT workers often have privileges you don't want them to use during a hostile termination, this sometimes leads to the ludicrous situation of paying someone not to come to work for a few months (and that person is probably not going to get a raise and a bonus and bump up the average, eh?). Of course, despite this, unemployment is lower, anyway, so it's not like the US is cheating by not counting all the $0 salaries, unless maybe you count the huge prison population ;)

Similarly, you have to take into account the large concentrations of American IT workers in places like Silicon Valley. Silicon Valley is a very risky place. The companies that succeed are often flush with cash. But the companies that fail don't pay anybody, and unemployed people don't count into the average. And, of course, the cost of living is high in Silicon Valley.

So, those effects would also tend to raise the average.

Much of this stuff could be explained as the result of the different paths America and Europe have taken with running their societies, specifically with how much risk they are willing to tolerate. But, like I said, there's more to life than high salaries. And those American salaries are getting lower in real terms by the day as Americans' purchasing power is eroded by the falling dollar. So, enjoy your vacation days and social services and don't fret too much about it. ;)

Recognizing counterfeit money is a specialization within the FBI. Also, there are few fake $20 bills, not worth the effort. They usually counterfeit $100s. And ever been in a casino where they authenticate with that special marker? This is because you can't tell unless you've got years of experience. We've all probably handled counterfeit money in your lifetime without ever knowing.

A small denomination is no obstacle to counterfeiters. Some people have been counterfeiting Euro coins. Euro banknotes are also being counterfeited, and people have gotten counterfeit bills from banks.

Not to mention Lira, Drachma and a whole zoo of now defunct currencies.

Not such a good examples, I'd say. 1Euro gets you exactly 340.750 Greek Drachma. Or 1936.27 Italian Lira. And the rate will not change that soon. Or ever.

Look it up: http://www.euro.ecb.int/en/section/conversion.html

http://www.ecb.int/bc/flash/security/index_en.html

I believe the truth is that the Euro has been more worth than the U.S. Dollar for most of its existence and certainly since July 2002. At its introduction in 1999, the euro was traded at US$1.18. It declined and rose again. Over the last 365 days it has been worth an average 1.25 Dollars - never falling below 1.1697 since Dec 2005.

Zero-risk interest rates in the U.S. are around 5% and inflation is about 4%. European rates are somewhat lower and inflation is about 2%. Canadian rates are more in line with European than American, although out unemployment rate is more in line with the U.S. (i.e., low) and our public finances are unique (that is, in surplus federally and near balanced provincially.)

So most of us aren't quite in the cheap-money days of the late '90's, although the U.S. is coming close.

While developers such as myself, who aren't afraid (or too arrogant) to use PHP are busy raking in six figure incomes

The Quarter is 24.26mm diameter. The 20 Euro cent is only 22.25. It's closer to the 50 Euro cent at 24.25 (And I'm surprised how similar the Euro sizes are (source).

For a UK perspective, it's close to the 10p (or the old shilling/5p) size. Or an Australian or New Zealand 10 cent coin

I've seen 100 notes

I've never seen 200 or 500 notes, but one can undestand that, 500 notes are just plain and simply scary

And good ol' bank card/pin combo is there for a reason

What i like with euros is that they look really nice, quite close to the "old new" franc notes (50, 100, 200 and 500FF) (colors, holograms, transparency built images with parts on both sides of the note)

Belgian banknote used to have braille on them, some sort of..
Then came the euro, they have some things ont them for blind people, but not braille actually.

There are just a huge number of misconceptions about the Japanese flying around here. Some of it's understandable, but I'm gonna try to counter what I can.

The Japanese, especially the young ones, have huge disposable incomes, as a result of a culture where it's normal to share a tiny apartment in the city with other families. Because of this, they tend not to invest of their incomes in more permanent things, like houses.

Home ownership in Japan is only about 6% lower than it is in the United States. It's a fallacy that they all live in tiny little apartments - or that they all rent those apartments. Many city apartments are owned, not rented, and there are plenty of less urbanized areas just as there are here, with single-family homes. According to UN statistics, the ratio of urban to rural living is virtually the same in the US and Japan.

(I actually think people forget just how urban the United States is in discussions like this as much as they fail to realize how rural or suburban much of Japan is.)

In fact, the overall savings rate in Japan is much higher than it is in the United States (though the rate has been falling over time in both countries). So this idea that they just spend all of their disposable income on gadgets is wrong. They actually spend less money on gadgets than we do.

• Europe: 49.900 euro
• Japan: 16.450 euro
• USA: 10.330 euro

These are average costs including filing fees to the PTO, and fees to the patent attorney drafting the patent. The costs for actually making the invention are of course not included, however. The reason why European patentets are so much more expensive is mostly because they have to be translated into so many languages.

The parent's estimates for what it costs to do patent litigation are also in line with what other sources quote. So when someone comes and claims that patents are to protect the little guy against big corporations, it's good to have these numbers in mind.

Yes I agree, the banknote detection code is just an annoyance, it doesn't really stop the forgeries.

As for forgery rates, there were 551 286 found counterfeit Euro banknotes in 2003, most of them were 50 EUR notes. This can be seen from the annual report of the European Central Bank, see chapter 3.2.

Yes I agree, the banknote detection code is just an annoyance, it doesn't really stop the forgeries.

As for forgery rates, there were 551 286 found counterfeit Euro banknotes in 2003, most of them were 50 EUR notes. This can be seen from the annual report of the European Central Bank, see chapter 3.2.

The more valuable Euro banknotes are indeed physically larger than less valuable notes. Here's a link for you.

As for braille, the notes do not have any braille codes on them, but the banknotes are printed in relief, using a special printing method known as intaglio. The EUR 200 and EUR 500 banknotes have tactile marks printed in intaglio and positioned along their edges. This should help blind people to recognize the notes.

Apparently the 1-euro and 2-euro coins are also like this, but I haven't handled either of them yet.

They are.

Pre-Euro Finnish 10mk coin was like this as well.

Apparently the 1-euro and 2-euro coins are also like this, but I haven't handled either of them yet.

They are.

Pre-Euro Finnish 10mk coin was like this as well.

The notes are the same across those 12 countries of the EU which have joined the European Monetary Union (EMU). You can have a look at the notes here.

The European Central Bank is proposing European legislation which would ban the distribution of software and devices not including such anti-counterfeiting technology: this has possible serious implications for open source software.

See: this document

As an ancap, I believe this is completely legitimate for the private companies ... The day could come when it is enforced by government

I'm beginning to believe anarchist is just another word for ignorant. Every anarchist I've met recently seems to be completely ignorant of every aspect of an issue, most are just protesting for the sake of protesting. As one put it at the software patent protests in Brussels last year, "I protest against everything, but mostly I do this to meet chicks".

Since you weren't paying attention, Adobe's product director Kevin Smith admitted they put this code into their product under pressure from the U.S. Department of the Treasury and the Department of Fath^WHomeland Defense. They willingly took a chunk of binary code developed by Digimarc and IBM under a contract to the G20 central banks (including the US Federal Reserve), and placed it directly into their product. This code is called at every manipulation of an image, copying to clipboard, pasting, opening a file, saving a file, rotations, etc. It is not a module or a plugin that can be removed, but built into the main PS code.

Although I have yet to see a thorough analysis from reverse engineering the code, I know that Omron, the company that makes the currency detection components used in many photocopiers and printers, promotes three algorithms which are used to detect bills. The most obvious is Digimarc's single color channel circles. The circles can be one of several colors, to blend in with scheme used on the bill. The second requires running Fast Fourier Transforms on the horizontal and vertical slices crossing each curved line on a bill, where each line has a slightly different radius to its bend, and slightly different spacing to the next line. The FFT's output "blows up" into a large, unprocessable value very quickly when it hits a patch of curvy lines. The third has to do with moire patterns, but the detection algoritm is unknown to me.

So there are two main complaints, the first to do with photoshop now running much slower because every manipulation gets passed through the government approval software before happening.

The more vocal complaints are about how the a number of governments have now convinced a bunch of companies to include untested, unknown, "black box" software in their products. Today the extra software is just running a few FFT and pattern matching algorithms which trigger an alert pointing the user to a Euro CentralBank run website. Tomorrow, various governments could require much more intrusive software to be installed in all products or in the operating system itself as a precursor to gently and slowly outlawing "untrustworthy" software. Indeed, the ECB is already contemplating legislation requiring all digital equipment and software that can store or process images to include this software. That includes all camera phones, digital cameras, computers, operating systems, scanners, printers, free software projects like the GIMP, etc.

Get with the panic, this is /.

the AC

• In the context of protecting euro banknotes against counterfeiting the European Central Bank (ECB)invites manufacturers based in the European Union (EU)and importers or distributors of products capable of handling digital images (hereinafter 'the industry ') to submit comments in connection with the ECB's request to the Commission of the European Communities to initiate legislation making it mandatory to incorporate counterfeit deterrence technology into such products.Such legislation would apply to products produced, imported or distributed in the EU.Any individual,organisation or group of organisations may submit comments.

• In the context of protecting euro banknotes against counterfeiting the European Central Bank (ECB)invites manufacturers based in the European Union (EU)and importers or distributors of products capable of handling digital images (hereinafter 'the industry ') to submit comments in connection with the ECB's request to the Commission of the European Communities to initiate legislation making it mandatory to incorporate counterfeit deterrence technology into such products.Such legislation would apply to products produced, imported or distributed in the EU.Any individual,organisation or group of organisations may submit comments.

Reproductions are automatically allowed, given they meet vertain guidelines (one-sided, must be noticiably smaller or larger).

I found this, it shouldn't be difficult to find the exact rules.

The Euro campaign was pretty big.

According to this post, Publicis spent ~ USD$70M for the three year campaign.

The USA is really behind in this issue. The Euro comes with loads of security features (including a hologram). Thoese features are explained on the webpage of the European Central Bank. Now there are still a lot of counterfeits in Europe (the Bulgarians are apparently really good at forgin money), which really makes you wonder if the ration of counterfeits in the US is really only 1 in 10000 bills, considering how easy it is to forge (the paper, the ink, it's not really an obstacle).

>There are plans to issue a 500 euro bill. That's about $560.

Plans? 500 note has been there since the beginning of euro launch.

Informative yes. But also incorrect.

But they keyword is fraudulent. I wouldn't go trying to make a US penny into a US dime or a Euro 20 into a Euro 100.

If you want to destroy your money I will do it for you! I will destroy it using my patented buy shiny-things technique. I have single handidly managed to destroy all of my money without any problems and even went so far as to destroy other's money. My parent's, my spouse, my kid's future...

Euro notesfor the US citizens who might not have seen them yet...
Swiss banknotes also a favorite of drug dealers... Please notice that they include many security features (like euros) and the 4 national languages (the fourth one is spoken by only 30000-50000 people).
Notice the 1000 (~650 $) francs note, highest bill in circulation in the world. You can buy your car in switzerland and not even look like you have much money in your wallet... These are always carefully checked...
Lastly the new 20 pesos bill from México (third from the top). It's polymer based and includes a little transparent window... Supposedly undestroyable (except by fire...)

Our economy seems to be doing better than the rest of Europe at the moment...

Some parts yes. Germany particularly is doing very badly due to the rigidity of its labour laws. This is not due to the Euro though.

But what really amazes me is this whole "when the economic conditions are right" rubbish. If our economic cycles match up at some point, that doesn't mean we will magically stay in sync for the rest of time.

If we are not part of the same currency we will certainly not "magically stay in sync", but if we are we will stay in sync and will become more synchronised as time goes on.

Look at Ireland, for example. They are dealing with runaway inflation because the interest rates are set for the benefit of Germany and France, and not them. Having a single interest rate across such a wide range of countries is asking for someone to get stuffed - and it's always the little guy.

These problems will disappear with time (they happened with the creation of the US$). Take a look at this.

It also means that central control of interest rates is essential. That means that the interest rates are controlled centrally for the good of europe (i.e. probably by the Bundesbank; which constitutionally has to act for the good of Germany, rather than the good of Britain, or even Europe; since it is by far the biggest bank).


The interest rates in the Eurozone are NOT controlled by any bank related to a member state. They are controlled by the European Central Bank in Frankfurt, but are in NO way related to the Bundesbank.

The ECB is free to make their own decisions about interest rates. In the last 12 months the ECB has cut interest rates much less than the Fed in the USA.

That means that the interest rates are controlled centrally for the good of europe (i.e. probably by the Bundesbank; which constitutionally has to act for the good of Germany, rather than the good of Britain, or even Europe; since it is by far the biggest bank).

Tax rates, currency deployment and allowed budget deficits are controlled by the European Central Bank.

Eh?

EU is European Union which is not a geographical but a political thing.

So what's geographically specific about the area covered by the countries of the former Soviet Union?

Some EU-related sites use .int, for example the European Central Bank and the EU Council

If this is actually working, I'd happily volunteer to be the first to use it... I think the advantage is not that it's pain-free. I couldn't care less about pricking me in the finger. The real problems with conventional systems are

• You are dependent on an electronic device and test strips. You have to carry it with you at all times (or should at least), and I could move around much more freely if I did not need to take with me and look after my glucose tester.
• The test strips have to be bought regularly (I use between three and five per day), and they're not exactly cheap. It's also a pain because, at least in Germany, I have to get a Doctor's prescription each and every time I need to buy new supplies. Some sort of subscription would really help here. I am diabetic, and I will be for probably the rest of my life, so why the need to get a stupid prescription all the time, instead of having some sort of token that entitles me to buy my medication whenever I need to?
• Nothing could be of more help than a continuous measurement. That way, for example, I could immediately tell if my food had more carbs than I expected and I can react sooner.

Also, while devices for continuous measurement are out there, I don't expect them to be really comfortable, and I'd still depend on a device that I have to look after. So if this tattoo proves to be working, I'd be more than happy to use it.

Oh, and a question -- this polymer stuff reminds me of those materials used in modern hard-to-forge banknotes (see here for instance), is that a similar material?

If anyone actually cares, here is a link where you can see the different coins. I'm about to move from the US to Italy so I have to get used to looking at these things. I have a feeling I'm gonna miss the good 'ole US currency.

Euro coins

It's lucky they're different sizes then. It would be really annoying living somewhere where the money was the same size and colour!

But certainly Germany is economically the most powerful of the participating countries and tries to get the financial politics under its control. The "stability rules" which all participating countries have to follow, were forced upon them by the export-oriented politics of Germany.

When the decision for the Euro was made, the French government tried to get equal power as Germany, and then proposed that the ECB should be located in Germany, but its president should be french. So even when it's a dutchman now it was a victory for the German government to show France, that it will be in the second row in future Europe.

This is just a hint, how german dominated the EU is. I'm german myself, so I can say this unbiased.

Oh and you shouldn't forget that the Deutschmark is/was official currency in occupied Kosovo and in pro-forma-yugoslavian (sp?) Montenegro, and is still inofficial currency in large part of Eastern Europe.

Some historians think, that the economic control of Eastern Europe which Hitler tried to get by occupation has now been achieved by Germany through the backdoor.

The exchanges and markets have been working in Euros for the last year. This makes a unified market within the Euro-zone countries. However, until we had a real currency, there was a crisis of confidence.

I duely went out and got my 20DM worth of Euro coins in December. This was part of the so-called familiarity and to try to front-load the system to help with the problem of small change.

A couple of days ago, I had a guy at a bookshop at Frankfurt airport try to pass me off with two 10 year old banknotes of a withdrawn design. I objected because the notes could only be changed at a bank, and he gave me modern notes. The old bank notes were in very good condition and probably genuine, but I still refused.

Well I was out last night, spending Deutschmarks in a pub all night. Did I rush out to get my Euros, no as I anticipated a queue at the cash-points. I stayed away from the ECB because I didn't like the crush.

In the morning, I noted that the region transport company, the RMV seemed to have a lot of ticket machines out of order. However, I was able to get money from an ATM w/o queueing and without problem.

We are relatively lucky in that the exchange rate is set close enough to 2 at 1.95583. However, the retailers have been given a little too much leeway in setting their prices, so there is a lot of retail price inflation (already apparent during December). In France, they introduced a price freeze for three months to prevent this.

In real terms, it will probably start being useful on my next ski-trip. No more currencies to worry about apart from the Swiss Franc, and already, some resorts in Switzerland are saying that they will accept the Euro. Many have been taking Deutschmarks and French Franks already for things like lift-passes.

I expect that there may be some problems tomorrow when the first real business day for the shops starts, probably with availability of change as the public have practically none. Shops should give change in Euros, even if you spend DM.

Here is another official site with plenty of info and images.

Here is another official site with plenty of info and images.

Here is another official site with plenty of info and images.

There is various information at eu.int and the European Common Bank site, including pictures of the coins (both by themselves and in publicity-photo type poses), various policies (such as how you say "euro" and "euros" in various languages), and more.