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The combination of the mini and the EyeTV 500 makes for a great HTPC, at least for digital over-the-air TV (and unencrypted QAM digital TV over cable).

The type of HD video you're probably referring to (MPEG-2) is not the same kind of HD video that online movie stores would offer (H.264 MPEG-4). The Elgato software plays back HDTV MPEG-2 video at up to 18 Mb/s (8.1 GB per hour). I'm assuming those PowerBook owners that were experimenting with HD were also using MPEG-2, unless the forum was about Quicktime 7 and the Tiger beta.

The video cards in the PowerBooks and the Mac mini (32MB Radeon 9200) can help with hardware-accelerated MPEG-2 decoding (DVD), but I'm pretty sure they will not help with H.264 MPEG-4 playback. Only the newest cards from ATI and NVIDIA (RADEON x700+ and GeForce 6200+) are touting hardware-accelerated HD video playback. This, combined with the fact that H.264 is newer and more highly compressed, is why I think the CPU requirements will be much higher than a G4 to playback HD video on demand in H.264.

As for Elgato's software not using the video card to play back MPEG-2 video, they addressed this in their FAQ:

Q: The Apple DVD Player also decodes and displays MPEG-2 video, but its system requirements are lower than EyeTV's, and it even works on some G3 Macs. Why can't you do that?

A: The graphics cards and drivers that are built into Macintosh computers contain special features to support the Apple DVD Player. These features are used exclusively by the Apple DVD Player, they are currently not available to third parties and they have various DVD-specific limitations that make them unsuitable for EyeTV. Note that QuickTime does not use these features either. EyeTV's MPEG-2 decoder is about 10-20% faster than the QuickTime MPEG-2 component.

* Does H.264 require special hardware?

While H.264 is a computationally advanced codec, it runs on today's shipping computers with no additional hardware required. For example, a full HD movie (1920x1080, 8 Mbps, 24 fps) encoded with H.264 plays back beautifully on a dual Power Mac G5. Internet-sized content (40kbps - 300kbps) will run on the most basic of processors, like those in mobile phones and consumer-level computers.

The type of HD video you're probably referring to (MPEG-2) is not the same kind of HD video that online movie stores would offer (H.264 MPEG-4). The Elgato software plays back HDTV MPEG-2 video at up to 18 Mb/s (8.1 GB per hour). I'm assuming those PowerBook owners that were experimenting with HD were also using MPEG-2, unless the forum was about Quicktime 7 and the Tiger beta.

The video cards in the PowerBooks and the Mac mini (32MB Radeon 9200) can help with hardware-accelerated MPEG-2 decoding (DVD), but I'm pretty sure they will not help with H.264 MPEG-4 playback. Only the newest cards from ATI and NVIDIA (RADEON x700+ and GeForce 6200+) are touting hardware-accelerated HD video playback. This, combined with the fact that H.264 is newer and more highly compressed, is why I think the CPU requirements will be much higher than a G4 to playback HD video on demand in H.264.

As for Elgato's software not using the video card to play back MPEG-2 video, they addressed this in their FAQ:

Q: The Apple DVD Player also decodes and displays MPEG-2 video, but its system requirements are lower than EyeTV's, and it even works on some G3 Macs. Why can't you do that?

A: The graphics cards and drivers that are built into Macintosh computers contain special features to support the Apple DVD Player. These features are used exclusively by the Apple DVD Player, they are currently not available to third parties and they have various DVD-specific limitations that make them unsuitable for EyeTV. Note that QuickTime does not use these features either. EyeTV's MPEG-2 decoder is about 10-20% faster than the QuickTime MPEG-2 component.

* Does H.264 require special hardware?

While H.264 is a computationally advanced codec, it runs on today's shipping computers with no additional hardware required. For example, a full HD movie (1920x1080, 8 Mbps, 24 fps) encoded with H.264 plays back beautifully on a dual Power Mac G5. Internet-sized content (40kbps - 300kbps) will run on the most basic of processors, like those in mobile phones and consumer-level computers.

That depends on your definition of a "home entertainment PC." I agree that the case looks good enough for a HTPC, but the Mac mini is not powerful enough for high def and needs more external accessories to be a "decent" HTPC, IMO.

To be a decent HTPC, I think the mini might need:

1. M-Audio Sonica Theater for surround sound and digital out (4.8" x 3.1" x 1.2")
2. Elgato EyeTV 200 for TV tuner/PVR (8.3" x 6.1" x 1.4")
3. An external hard drive might be needed, since SDTV eats about 2 GB per hour. On the other hand, video can also be burned onto DVD.

I priced an equivalent Shuttle for that purpose and arrived at about the same price as a Mini. That's not including the effort required to put the Shuttle parts together and install the OS. The Mini comes with everything ready to go...

Shuttle also sells complete systems with all the parts already together and OS already installed. They even sell Media Player XPCs with surround sound, digital output, TV tuner/PVR, and memory card reader inside the box. These Media Player XPCs run MS Windows Media Center Edition 2005 and include a remote. The cheapest one starts at $950 and includes a 3Ghz Pentium 4, 512MB RAM, 80GB HD, DVD/CD-RW combo drive (Dual layer DVD burner for $32 more), keyboard/mouse, and all that other "media center" shit I mentioned before (surround, digital, DVR, remote, etc).

Something worth considering (or in HDTV. They look very nice, small, and include remote ontrols

Something worth considering (or in HDTV. They look very nice, small, and include remote ontrols

Funnily enough, I was looking at something to solve this a few hours ago. Depends on the format they send of course, but have a look at the Elgato EyeHome. Sounds like a good product to me - stored films (in DiVX or various MPEGs), iPhoto access, iTunes access, wireless access...not bad.

The MythTV lot will be jumping up and down here too I imagine, and quiet rightly so. Copy your film to the MythTV and you don't have to worry about burning to DVD.

Cheers,
Ian

But one of the problems is a lack of HDTV tuner. You could get Elgato's EyeTV 500 to make your Mini Mac into an HD PVR but you're still lacking 5.1 digital audio. I don't know what you could do about that. If you're spending the $$$ to get an HDTV then you probably already have, or would want to get a nice 5.1 or 7.1 sound system. You wouldn't want to be stuck with stereo from you Mini Mac.

I'm not sure Cringely's HD movie service would catch on either. It's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure it would be very successful. One thing is certain though, a lot of people are going to have a lot of fun and do some cool stuff with their Mini Macs.

--
Join the Pyramid - Free Mini Mac

This isn't a full answer, but:

EyeTV 500 FAQ

Wow, I'd be totally impressed right now.

Well, I would be if I did know you're talking out your ass.

But what if you want to get composite video in and out of the machine? Or what if you have a wireless home network? Or what if you live in a geographic area where anything faster than 33.6K dial-up is not affordable, and you need a traditional v.92 modem? Would it be wise to depend on USB 2 based adapters for those?

Composite video in: You just need a Firewire device like EyeTV.

Composite video out: get one of the cheap DVI->Composite adaptors.

Wireless home network: Get an Airport card installed. They are available as build to order.

V92 modem: Built in. And all modems will negotiate with the ISP modems on a speed. So the 56K modems in the miniMac will automatically drop down to 33.6K as appropriate.

So again what do u really need PCI for ? Between USB2 and Firewire and BTO options they seem to cover most things.

Check out Elgato's eyeTV: http://www.elgato.com/. They have a pretty good USB2 PVR according to the reviews, but be forewarned, if you want to play back HD video, you need a DUAL G5, since there's no video acceleration for playback with 10.3. (I'm not sure if this will change with 10.4 and CoreVideo or not... Anyone else know?)

I gotta admit, the idea of buying a Mac Mini and hooking it to my TV is mighty tempting...

Elgato systems sells a number of models of the EyeTV, they even have an HD model! I think it's the best best for PVR style capture. I believe it also comes with PVR kind of software.

Then you just need to hook it into some kind of IR blaster...

I currently own a PowerBook G4 and use it for my work (Mac application programming). It's a bit more powerful than the Mac Mini, but not hugely so. It has a 1.5GHz processor, which is comparable to the 1.25GHz processor in the base Mini. The video card is quite a bit better, but gcc doesn't really care about that. I have 1.25GB of memory in mine, and sometimes that doesn't even seem like enough, and that is the one place where the Mini will be restrictive compared to this computer. However, most people won't need more than 1GB of memory, and will probably be quite happy with 512MB.

That said, I probably won't get one for myself. I already have something like it anyway, and I need something portable which the Mac Mini won't be once you throw in the screen. I would love to get one otherwise, though. I might get one for some members of my family who have suffered with PCs for too long, and that seems like the primary target market to me.

You don't need to do anything special to turn a Mini into a PVR. Buy an eyeTV, plug it in, and you have a PVR.

I got some more information, so I'm following up my own post.

El Gato's software will allow multiple EyeTV or compatible products to be connected simultanously. Live viewing should work, but scheduled recording will not work reliably because the scheduling program will just use the first available unit. There are plans to implement scheduled recording using multiple units, and the latest software allows experimental use.

• use line in: iMic
• get a video card with TV out for HTPC use: get the optional S-video/composite video out
• get optical audio out so i can watch DVDs in surround sound: Sonica Theater (also supplies a line in)
• cheaply add wireless or bluetooth: get any cheap USB bluetooth/wireless adapter you want
• add any PCI cards i like: got me there I suppose
• install a TV tuner card in it: get something from El Gato instead

Shall I go on?

Don't forget to upgrade the hard drive BTO to 80GB (the max size for cheap 1.25GHz model). 40GB is not enough for a DVR. You might also need a cheapo TV tuner with hardware MPEG-2 encode like the EyeTV 200 ($329 at Apple Store). You might need a sound upgrade that provides surround and digital outputs like the M-Audio Sonica Theater ($120).

The total cheapo price for your "Media Center" Mac mini with upgraded RAM, bluetooth, Airport, hard drive, TV tuner/encoder, and sound: $1202.

For that price, a much better "Media Center" machine would be a Shuttle Media Center XPC. Sure, it's not quite as tiny as a Mac mini, but you wouldn't need an external TV Tuner/encoder and external sound card. A K 6200m can be configured with internal TV tuner, digital audio out, Wi-Fi, remote control, etc for less than $1000.

Well, seriously, I don't have 5.1 yet. But whenever I buy one in the future I can shell out $120 for the USB surround device and be a happy camper.

And sometime in the future pick up an ElGato firewire tuner to build a TiVO-like system and enjoy++.

Apple is avoiding what it has been critized in the past, starting small, I can pick and chose extensions on the way.

You mean, like, this? (Firewire)

EyeTV is a feature-rich digital TV recorder with realtime MPEG-2 video encoding that allows you to watch, record and edit your favorite TV shows and movies directly on your Mac. Automatically schedule when to record shows, edit out the unwanted content, and then burn your recording to DVD. You can even pause and replay live TV, letting you watch what you want, when you want it. The combination of EyeTV and an Electronic Program Guide means you'll never miss a show.

I have not actually tried it myself, but apparently it has/will soon have HD support as well.

And, as it pertains to the topic, it will not play back HDTV content recorded with EyeTV 500 or other devices.

You mean the EyeHome by Elgato? It exists. I've not tried one, but I'd like to... I do own the EyeTV USB and it is a nice product.

New headless sub-$500 iMac: ThinkSecret is almost ALWAYS spot-on with these stories, so it's probably true. This could easily be an AV component IF it includes tuner capabilities, or some provision for adding them

I'd bet my ass that this thing will include a FireWire connector, so this would be dead simple.

Like one of these?

Here is the best chance. If any company makes such a product, El Gato is the one.

Here is the best chance. If any company makes such a product, El Gato is the one.

I don't know what's available on the PC for this. It is known that USB really isn't up to the requirements for streaming video. On the Mac side there the new El Gato EyeTV 500. The choice in Firewire is mostly because it is required for HD video streaming, not to alleviate some USB silliness.

They failed to review the best product available, EyeTV

Silent, beautiful, spouse friendly, and the combination of OS X and iLife is soo much better than Windows Media Center. You will have to upgrade it up quite a bit (at the very least the RAM, and HD) and add a FireWire tuner but it would still be half the cost.

... http://elgato.com/ for an outstanding array of HDTV to computer solutions.

Of course there's a catch ... they are only aimed at Macs -- so it's not a bad catch unless you've adopted the x86 architecture or Microsoft operating systems as a religion.

I'm delighted with my EyeTV 500, pulling in broadcast HDTV, MPEG2 encoding it, and passing it through Firewire to disk, with easy editing, scheduling future recordings, and export to Toast or iDVD.

I'm sure that if you want to wait, Microsoft will eventually get their Media Entertainment Center to smoothly mesh and do all the things Macs will have been effortlessly doing in the interim, and in only a short time after that the Linux folks will have managed to adapt the Windows solution to their needs.

I'm not trolling for flames here, just pointing out that this is an option. I believe you can run Yellow Dog Linux (or other PPC-flavored Linuxes) and use something like Mac-On-Linux to run OS X alongside Linux, if Linux is a personal must-have, but I wouldn't divide the computing resources between 2 systems without a fast dual processor, and I don't believe Mac-On-Linux supports the G5 yet.

Yes, PowerMacs can do it out of the box. I admit the G5 iMac might be a stretch unless you load up first on RAM.

If you live where they block the firewire out, and you can't use the firewire off your high definition TV, you can use this:

http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyet v500

BTW, get your box before June, 2005, or it will be DRM'd.

If you must use a PC running Linux, I recommend MYTHtv in client mode for your PVR.

(This input advice was by way of my son Chris, who uses both the Mac and Linux PVR system throughout his house.)

Regards,
Roger Born
writing.borngraphics.com

I've been looking at doing the same thing. Take a look at elgato's eyehome http://www.elgato.com/ and add Apple's Airport Express for wireless connectivity.

Since you mentioned getting files from your PowerBook, I'll offer two good Mac-centric solutions:

1) Audio only. Simple. Use an Airport Express. Setup is easy, it acts as a Wi-Fi access point, and you can stream music from iTunes to the built-in audio out port. Run an RCA stereo adapter cable from the Airport Express to your stereo's inputs and bang - streaming music solution. Price $130.

2) Audio and video. Also simple. Get an EyeHome from Elgato, install the server software on your Mac, and then stream your MP3's, AAC's, DivX movies, MPEG2 movies, etc. to your TV or home theater receiver. Price $200.

I own both of these products, and both are very solid, and great at bridging the media gap between the computer and the TV/stereo.

Now if someone would only come up with a good time-shifting TV tuner of this quality for the Mac.

green pizza, you want the eyeTV 200. Contains a tuner, a hardware MPEG2 decoder (that can go up to 1920xsomething at 25 fps and will be able to do MPEG4 in future releases), S-Video and RCA inputs for analog video acquisition, and uses FireWire to stream mpeg2 to the Mac.

Works on old G3-based Macs even, comes with built-in edition capabilities and can export in any format you want.

Additionally, it also has that wonderful exclusive Mac user price tag of USD$269.00.

You sould look at the Elgato EyeTV, it has a FireWire interface and a hardware-based MPEG2 encoder so it doesn't bog down your processor. The best thing is that the software is written exclusively for the Mac so it doesn't have that ported-at-the-last-second feel to it.

If you are going to make it like a TV... they should have gone all the way and put a TV tuner in there - this is the killer app to beat microsoft on and to complete the iLife suite. An Apple (with all the associated easiness) TV center with maybe a grey one for corporate use with no TV.

If you are going to make it like a TV... they should have gone all the way and put a TV tuner in there - this is the killer app to beat microsoft on and to complete the iLife suite. An Apple (with all the associated easiness) TV center with maybe a grey one for corporate use with no TV.

I should be able to play music and movies on it from anywhere in my home

Well, you'll at least need a tuner...

Elgato seems to have a firewire tuner that supports DVB-S, It's got a funky card reader and only works with Macintoshs, but it does exist (and their software kicks ass)

For recording shows I like using a ReplayTV(a TIVO would do), then you can connect to it over the network and play your shows on your computer.

While I have to admit that this is damn nifty, I've been in the market for something that does this with video as well. I have an EyeTV PVR, and El Gato makes EyeHome that appears to be much like this AirPort Express, but with all the missing features -- streams iTunes, streams video, allows surfing on the TV (with Safari bookmarks), etc. At about twice the price of the new AirPort Express, you're paying for the features, but it does seem a step ahead. Anyone have an EyeHome that can give some details on quality?

Since this just makes the $250 Squeezebox a really expensive remote for you 'puter, you might want to consider some other products instead.

If want you want is just a remote for your computer, then the Keyspan Digital Media Remote provides a $40 dollar alternative.

If you want to stream video to you TV from your Mac, then El Gato's eyeHome will pull this off at the same price as the Squeezebox. It will also stream music from iTunes and do slideshows from iPhoto, with no hacking required. ( I know.. what's the fun in that :) )

If you want to wait for Microsoft Announceware, you could get the Windows Media Center Extender for XBOX and use the XBOX to stream video to your TV.

Or at ~$150 you could get the Linksys Wireless Media Adapter . This is the first round of Intel's Digital Media Adapters , of which there is a good review of the technology at linuxdevices.com

Elgato just released EyeHome which streams audio/video from your Computer(Mac Only) via Ethernet to a TV for the same price. It looks sweet, XLR8YourMac has had a bunch of users review it. It only accepts Mpeg1, Mpeg2(non-VBR), and DIVX streams from their "EyeHome Media Server". The same company Sells nice firewire tuners with TIVO like software that incorporates into the setup.

Seriously though, if you want a good TV frontend for your computer, get an Xbox and put Linux on it (no, you don't need to buy a mod-chip). It costs less than any other option and is a lot more flexable.

...dude, buy a Mac. Now. Don't ask, just do it. If you like stuff like this you won't regret it.

Step 1. Connect firewire cam into Mac.

Thats it - iMovie will open up and you can watch the video live or record it and start editing.

If you want to watch TV, at work for media aquisition I've just got an Elgato eyeTV box which will receive TV and work as a PVR. The bit I like most is you get a years subscription to a website that has all the TV schedules, and you can decide what you want the PVR to record. i.e. I can sit here at home, browse a website for a TV program, click one button, and it will be recorded by the PVR at work. The eyeTV software checks into the site every hour and updates it's list of what you want to record. The video is stored as standard MPEG-2, however even though I have the Pro version of Quicktime 6.5 and the MPEG2 component, I can watch the exported movies but I can't export them with sound so be wary of that.

Yes I know PC's can do similar things, but having worked with digital video for around 8 years now, I have to say that the Mac kicks the arse of everything when it comes to video editing. The reason? Standard hardware and good software. One person's Powerbook 1Ghz is exactly the same as anothers meaning that the software authors have less disparate hardware to worry about.

http://www.elgato.com/products/eyetv400.html

I see that SnapStream sells TV-input stuff bundled with their software, but a $160 usb TV-tuner is steep, most people are gonna be using cheapola cards. Requiring a hardware based video compressor would also make sense, not being able to play Doom III because your wife's soap is getting recorded sucks.

Elgato only bundles it's EyeTV(Mac only) software with their hardware. I think EyeTV is better targeted at what an average user can handle and use.

I am a MythTV user