Slashdot Mirror
Computer Gaming PCs Try To Stack Up To Consoles
bippy writes "RedAssedBaboon has what I think is the first review of a computer to feature the much lauded DISCover technology. DISCover basically turns a computer into a gaming console, allowing you to drop a PC game into a system and play it immediately on your television. The site reviews a new DHS (Digital Home System) by Alienware which will feature the technology and is due out next month. The article ends with this interesting comment: 'It's high time that the computer stop lurking in the shadows of dusty computer desks in forgotten rarely-used bedrooms. If PC gaming is going to survive it's going to have to do so in the well-lit family rooms and dens of America right along side the GameCube, PS2 and Xbox -- and this looks like a great way to start.'" We previously discussed the DISCover 'Drop And Play' PC gaming system over on Slashdot Games.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
...To play multiplayer and not have to actually pause and text chat. I always get killed doing that.
I are winner
Is that graphics can be much more crappy and still look okay. Ever hook a Playstion up to a computer monitor? Ack.
Until my plasma TV does 1900x1200 or near enough. I will stick to the dark room. Thank you!
Its price is way to high...in my opinion. I'd rather build a pc myself (with ultra silent cooling etc.) than buying this expensive crap...
My monitor is bigger than my TV...
If PC gaming is going to survive it's going to have to do so in the well-lit family rooms and dens of America
... in Japan?
So what does PC gaming needs to survive in the other continents? and what about
I'm a chainsmokin' alcoholic sociopath, so-ci-o-path
"We previously discussed the DISCover 'Drop And Play' PC gaming system over on Slashdot Games."
I guess the game was reassembling the pc...
Yes, I much prefer playing a computer game on a 30Hz 525x525 blurry display than on a 72Hz 1024x768 display. Anything that can make my $1500 screaming game PC behave more like a $200 console is a welcome change. (that was all sarcasm, by the way)
Hehehe, how good is it :)
I too, have bed sheets stapled to my windows to prevent light entering and burning my pale fair skin :)
"If PC gaming is going to survive it's going to have to do so in the well-lit family rooms and dens of America right along side the GameCube, PS2 and Xbox" whatever happened to prime time television losing the market to gaming? I somehow thing they overstate the dire condition of PC Gaming.
All I have to say is "Lan Party." Games consoles will never have people stringing Cat5 across living rooms to stuff 15 geeks itching to blast each other away.
A friend just spent $5K plus on a "Dell Media Center" computer -- purchased all the extras (against my recommendataion).
The 24" screen makes a lousy tv. The computer makes a lousy PVR -- because he cannot record HD like the cablebox allows. He cannot tune channels with the computer. And the remote requires lots of programming (very little in terms of autolearning or preprogrammed alt. system remotes).
-sid
Hmm ill need an hdtv to compensate for the resolution difference between a monitor and standard tv.
I guess I'm no longer a geek since our bedroom gets *plenty* of use... tho, not for gaming (at least not for computer gaming [grin]).
Mind the gap...
Oh, lovely. I can play games on a TV.
Let's see:
My computer monitor is higher-resolution than my TV.
My computer monitor is sharper than my TV.
My computer monitor has a higher refresh rather than my TV.
My computer monitor has more accurate color than my TV.
My computer monitor has fewer visual artifacts than my TV (shadowing, faint snow).
My computer monitor uses a better interface to talk to my computer (using a monitor cable running a VGA signal) than my TV (which uses NTSC).
My computer monitor can run at multiple resolutions, unlike my TV.
Really, the only things that TVs have going for them are that they're big.
Finally, it's not hard to get a sound card and video card that have TV out and audio out from the computer. As far as I can tell, this just loses the advantage of configurability that PC games allow.
May we never see th
BS.
PC gaming will survive, even if it's a niche market. There will always be college students in dorm rooms with modern computers that they were required to purchase. There will always be IT professionals with the wherewithal to keep up with the latest trends.
Console and PC games combined do not make up the lion's share of the entertainment market. Neither do cinema ticket sales or DVD purchases. As long as there's room for someone to turn a profit, variety will persist.
...with Rendezvous. I want my mac to be my "digital hub". I should be able to play music and movies on it from anywhere in my home, likewise with games. I see no reason why game controllers can't be made wireless and why the video signal can't be sent to my TV on the otherside of the room or house. All the pieces are here, someone just needs to "make it work". Just imagine pluggin in your Mac/PC and having it autodiscover your TV, Phone, Stereo via wireless ethernet and bluetooth etc etc.
Someday guys, someday............
Last time I checked, the Xbox was nothing more than a stripped down x86 system that does nothing but play games. Doing this to any other PC would, in effect, make it just like any other console (albeit with customizeable hardware). But why bother?
I play PC games for three reasons.
1.) The latest hardware is almost always superior to that of a gaming console
2.) I have a mouse and keyboard to use, which gives me much more control than a 12 button controller.
3.) Online play is simply much easier and more popular on the PC and will always stay that way, despite what MS and EA would like you to believe. I think that it's also more fun, because console games generally attract more immature children.
Doesn't anyone else realize this too?
I already play all my sports game on my TV. I have a video card that supports TV out and it works great. I bought four of these controllers and I find it to be much better than any of my consoles. I'm quite sure that lots of other slashdotters are already doing the same. This piece of hardware, like most Alienware products, is also way overpriced however I guess it would be perfect for people that aren't into building there own PCs.
While there are many advantages to using a PC as a console (such as expansiblity and the ability to use the system for other purposes), there are a few disadvantages too.
First, rather than relying on a constant, single-purpose firmware OS designed specifically for the hardware you're running on, you have to rely on a third-party OS (designed to do a lot more than just run games), so it's inevitable that you'll end up with a lot more crashes, etc. Now, crashes and failures on "PCs" are generally accepted and tolerated, but on a consumer appliance, this is probably not the case.
Second, you also have changing hardware. A developer writing a game for the playstation knows exactly what hardware will be there, exactly what to expect, and (probably) knows the exact hardware specifics. But, introduce the ability to change or upgrade hardware, and the constant environment changes. Also, there's probably not going to be any standard "controller".
On a different topic, would most people going be using a keyboard/mouse with this,? If so, surely we're going back to needing a desk -- something most console users probably don't use when playing on their console.
For PC gaming to survive, it must receive acceptance from most family members. So a game that gives endless hours of enjoyment to one person is expensive at $50, but if it entertains 4 people, $50 is actually affordable, and it might even become a household grocery like biscuits or milk that everybody in the house eats or drinks.
Having said all the above, the problem is not the lighting or forgotten bedrooms, it's the interior design of this computer room.
If there's a fridge, a couple of lazyboy sofas and a coffee table in this 'computer gaming' room, i'm sure parents might venture in and stay there watching their kids knocking themselves out. In another word, we need a inviting gaming room.
I have a 'movie' room, which is dark (for projector), a couch and some beverages, and everybody can't wait to go in there.
I guess that's a reasonable first step but for me (a console gamer since I was a kid) it's not enough, for a number of reasons:
The PC is suited to different kinds of games than a console, most notably RTSes and FPSes.
You still have to upgrade computers (I know my 1.47 Athlon would need a huge upgrade to play Doom, my video card's a POS). With the consoles I can buy a machine and play any game that comes out for it (the console cycle is beginning to go more quickly, which is bad for the industry, but that's another submission entirely).
It just works - I don't have to tweak framerates, graphic modes, whatever - console games just work. PC games have to be tweaked because they have to deal with weird (and sometimes misconfigured) hardware.
My PC is usually doing something else - on IM, downloading, whatever, so this instant on feature doesn't help me much in that regard.
"There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
"If PC gaming is going to survive it's going to have to do so in the well-lit family rooms and dens of America right along side the GameCube, PS2 and Xbox"
Not sure how one figures that -- it seems to have done quite well for itself hiding away in all of the nerds' bedrooms...
I wonder what to 'lovely' people at Infinium Labs (why "Infinium" hasn't sued because of the name I've no idea) will think to that... a few upgrades later and you add broadband content (etc etc), mind the price gap makes the initial difference.
Plus, if the big companies decided to start doing the console PC thing (where the cheaper prices will kick in), the market might get a little crowded.... and in light of IL's slight issues of pissing off the gamers they were appealing to in the first place (the the lawsuit with [H]ard|OCP, where an anonymous donor has just recently given a substantial donation to prop up Kyles legal fund) I'm wondering as to how they think they might survive in such an industry.
Food for thought I suppose.
Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
Don't you like seeing the anticipating look on the face of your girlfriend when you are about to fertilize her eager lips with ... well, probably you don't know what I am talking about.
Ok. I like pc games typically better than console games.
But, the reason I haven't bought a new pc game in over 6 months is because I'm sick and tired of having to upgrade something on my computer. I love consoles. I can get any new games that come out. I can play them without worrying about performance. It is really just that simple. And for the price of a new video card to play the latest pc games, or a new motherboard+cpu, I can quickly buy the latest console and a game or two.
That is the biggest hurdle for pc games. If they could come up with a standard where they say all new games must be playable on this minimum requirements without the minimum moving every 3 months then they might start doing better. They could quite easily control the industry to say the games must work on X until Y date when we upgrade the minimum standards)
Just my opinion.
Where are my insightful mod points when I need them?
I don't own a tv, you insensitive clod!
If it has good mid-range game machine specs it might be a good buy as a standalone computer.
Of course they don't have games to sell to support the console, so it'll probably be pretty stripped down.
Stop the world; I need to get off.
The last four video cards I've purchased, dating back to 2000, all had TV-out. Getting gaming on my TV's easy: plug up an S-Video cable, turn on the PC.
Is it just that someone's figured out how to market the stuff we've all had (admittedly, some of us unwittingly...) for the past half a decade or so?
That said, I don't use S-Video out for gaming. I use it for movies...
-JDF
I'm assuming a hardware digital tv tuner & mpeg encoder because they aren't using ATI's AIW. You've got internet access on your TV, we all know how messy that can get. Sister is reading e-mail & chatting and Junior wants to play games.
This is just a setup for disaster if there's more than one child present. I'm sure families will use the fast-user-switching feature, what if it crashes? Shouldn't they wait for SP2 before shipping these out? God help you if there are porn popups while your parents watch TV.
Imagine how much of a mess it'll be trying to kick someone off the computer so you can watch tv. This is a great idea w/fast hardware.... but it's not going to work for everyone.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Console: standard hardware, OS, drivers, and software
Computer: most anything goes
Even though the diversity of the computer makes it sometimes troublesome, the personalization is why many of us like it.
Console: drop in and play
Computer: drop in, install, configure, and then play
Only makes a difference if the middle two steps are hard for you.
Console: played at the TV, using a controller
Computer: played at a monitor, using keyboard and mouse
I don't know about you, but I can't stand first-person shooters on a console, using a controller. Different types of games are controlled best in different ways.
Console: used for playing games, and maybe CDs and DVDs
Computer: used for playing games, and CDs and DVDs, and for productivity, development, Internet browsing, etc...
For all I care, they can roll back the clock on computer gaming. But I am not playing Doom 3, Halflife 2, Halo 2, or any other FPS on a controller and going to enjoy it.
It is already very easy to plug your computer into a television via S-Video cable (with a decent graphics card, of course). But, as the article states, you 'need' to have your computer in your living room (mine are) to connect to the TV.
At least in my situation, my computer monitor has much better resolution than my 27" TV, and has the ability to play games, audio, and dvd's. Not to mention it has a 5.1 sound system with some nice speakers, about the same or better quality than my stereo that's hooked up to my TV. I prefer watching movies and playing games on my PC rather than my TV, unless I want to fall asleep watching something, in which case I switch my TV to 'Input 2' coming from my PC.
Also, the DISCover system includes wireless keyboard and mouse, but how comfortable is it to sit at your couch with a keyboard and mouse on a coffee table? A computer desk is designed to make the usage of these devices more comfortable... not to mention you are only ~12 inches from your high-res monitor (more visible detail/clarity) rather than several feet from a television. Does anyone here play FPS games on their TV (with keyboard and mouse)? If so, explain the setup you have, and why you like it over a computer setup.
I have stopped playing console games altogether, even though I have all the major systems. It's nice to not have to deal with Windoze to try and get your game working (drivers, patches, etc), but when it does work, it's a much better experience on a PC. This is just my opinion, of course, and I am sure I'll get flamed for it!
Just as PCs in their current form will not exist in the near future (10 years give or take) neither will consoles. With the power of the common home PC and the increase in ownership consoles will lose in the long run. Not to even mention what Microsoft may do to the console market when the XBox gets a lion's share of the market. (for the naysayers remember that XBox has nearly unlimited funds behind it, when you have that kind of capital it's not a matter of it but rather a matter of when).
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
I could of swore Half life 2 is one of the most awaited games of all time, I don't hear that about FF games. Nice to know the press once again ignores the facts
I like muppets.
Consoles and PC belong to two different crowds.
.26 dot pitch (try .30+).
/.!)
There's things such as playing FPS with a console controller after using a KB/Mouse combo for years, screen real estate even at PAL 720 x 486 my videocard is now wasted, unintentional anti-aliasing as normal TVs aren't
Want my idea? (you'll get it anyway - this is
Hard disk based WinPXE with a separate registry, drivers, and games folder. No crappy page load of services in the background. No gayspy or other chat programs popping up. No requirement for Anti-Virus as IE and Outlook (or Express) shouldn't be running (me, I'd prefer a deny IE/OL/OE process blocker ^_^).
It also makes upgrades easier as the WinPXE can be upgraded by a CD.
The main pity is that the WinPXE is protected by a "Your all you ass belongs to us" license.
Anyway, The Idea of a "PC" will probably be phased out in favor of this, and perhaps a "Home" computer, one computer wired into the home with multiple terminals, some wireless, some hardwired, scattered throughout. Running Linux or BSD, of course:)
Drop me a line at:
Key ID: 0x54D1D809
PC games will do just fine, because I'll be damned if I will pony up the money for any game that features cute characters or green blood.
This article reminded me of Gentoo Games, the Gentoo Linux sideproject that distributed Linux compatible games as LiveCDs; essentially achieving the same thing as the DISCover system. Unfortunately, gentoogames.com seems to have become a blank website, so the project may have died.
I'm not really following how this DISCover system works. (I only skimmed the article, sorry) It says it uses a custom BIOS and scripts, and it's being used on a Windows Media Center powered machine. So does it fire up a game when you insert a CD while WMC is running and just run some scripts to install it, or does it use some magic to get the game running from boot? I assume this system still requires a Windows install in some way, and thus wouldn't be a viable solution for Linux gaming?
I've been waiting for this technology to come out ever since I saw it at E3. It will finally turn my Wintendo into a full game box. I buy a game, drop it in, and play. New patch comes out, it's taken care of for me. The less time I spend fixing my PC gaming box, the more time I spend playing. Some people get a kick out of administering their equipment, I get a kick out of getting something done. Thats why a Powerbook running OS X is my main system for production work, and not Linux or Windows. I also know Macs are not good for gaming due to the current market of not releasing hybrid games, hence keeping a Windows box around. Linux does well at serving stuff, so it sits in my basement, waiting for me to run emerge -U world from time to time, but otherwise just working beyond my initial setup.
I don't intend to play games on my TV. Partially because I don't own one, but instead own a 27 inch monitor for TV watching. But I am highly interested in the tech behind it to just let me play.
Nobody doubts that it can be done on your own, but it won't come out looking as good, you won't get 1 year of 24/7 tech support, you won't get replacement parts (that you can reinstall yourself w/o voiding the warranty) and last but not least AlienWare will send a tech to your door who knows the whole setup inside out.
No twiddling Linux to get it working. No driver hassles. You're buying a top notch product, tech support and it's not priced excessively higher than a similarly equipped PC.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
It's high time that the computer stop lurking in the shadows of dusty computer desks in forgotten rarely-used bedrooms.
Really now? that sounds like the perfect place to play doom 3 =)
A well lit room will just not do for such a game...takes all the scare right out of it!
The reason i use consoles for gaming is because i don't need to upgrade - the games i buy are guaranteed to look and run correctly without any more expense.
It's not going to solve that problem..
-KS2k3
Cabinets and monitors are a lot easier to handle and take up a lot less space than TVs.
________
Entranced by anime since late summer 2001 and loving it ^_^
Stange Never seen my bed room 3 computers might say geek but they make perfect room heaters in Winter. pefectly amount of light ie enought to see everything include the dust when there is any. And non point against the screen. From here one feeds a video feed and remote link (lan cable)(thank god for a wake up on lan link on a lot of motherboard) remote link providing keboard mouse and remote at TV location still got to work out how to get 5.1 sound to TV but it might be a $500 pc with out fans. Reason I don't want a computer screeming when watching a movie. Yet I still want the cpu power. This also applys to games lag is not that bad but getting the sound away is worth it.
Leave them in the bedrooms make a link to the living room.
From the web site:
Record, pause, and play back live TV with a
personal video recorder that works similar to a
TIVO®.
Create your own digital library by recording, storing,
and burning up to 5000 CDs and 235 hours of video.
So, what happens after 235 hours? Do you have to buy a new system>
Saying that, I do believe there is a market for something between the size of a laptop and a desktop system.
Personally, I wouldn't mind a laptop that came with a detachable 20" LCD, a full size keyboard, and a small mainboard that supported the latest 3D graphics accelerators. With a laptop, I can take the system with me when moving across the country. With a desktop system, I need it transported by a third party.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Introducing the Creative Labs (tm) 3DO Blaster.
This device was pretty awesome for the time. I worked at 3DO then, and thought it was tres groovy.
Wish I'd thought to shell out the mere $HUNNERTS it cost at the time. Production ended almost as soon as it had begun.
it's extremely rare now, and worth a purdy penny to collectors.
"If PC gaming is going to survive it's going to have to do so in the well-lit family rooms and dens of America right along side the GameCube, PS2 and Xbox"
No, if PC gaming is to survive it needs to have good games that are written right the first time and don't require you to own hardware that only came out just last week to run them.
Console gamers don't do PC gaming not because the installation process frightens us, it's because we don't consider it worth the time and money. Just because the games are plug-and-play and hook up to a television doesn't make them good. Just ask Acclaim.
I don't get this. PC gaming is already extremely mainstream and is far from a niche market. Even my freaking grandparents are PC Gamers, and it isn't like console games are grossly outselling PC games. The comment about bring PC gaming out to the family room instead of in a "computer room" is moot, who really cares if you play games in the family room or not? I am sure the gaming companies don't. Another point that has already been made by many slashdotters is that PC games are superior graphically on a monitor than on your standard TV.
This is just Alienware trying to make a demand for something when there really is none.
Ok, I'm confused here... who is their target market supposed to be? I don't personally know anyone who would justify spending $2,000-$3,000 on a pc based game console that will be rendered obsolete well before the sub-$200 consoles will.
Granted, they added features like Tivo style functions and the ability to surf the web and what not, but look at the history of such all-in-one devices in the past. When was the last time you bought a combo vcr/dvd player or a TV with dvd/vcr built into it?
No sane person would buy into such gimmicks. if one part breaks, the entire unit will likely has to be replaced. At $2,000-$3,000 a pop to keep $500+ worth of hardware in one neat box, I just don't see what incentive they are offering to make it worth the extra $1,500-$2,500 in the price. (I do know I'm not that concerned about hiding a couple wires.)
If they want to pitch this item as a game console, fine... then price it competatively with rest of the console gaming systems. If they don't want to lose the profits, then promote it as a niche market item, instead of confusing the consumers.
While I don't want to discredit the "Discover" technology, I do predict this system will ultimately fail. No one is going to buy something that cost more than your average PC, just to play the latest games at NTSC resolutions.
8==8 Bones 8==8
I already get enough errors from my digital cable box. I don't need to see a BSOD on my television anytime soon.
... in japan
" If PC gaming is going to survive it's going to have to do so in the well-lit family rooms"
I disagree. I have my comp right now connected to a monitor and a TV. I can't see a damn webpage when I send it to the TV (which is the reason why I have both, monitor and TV). I am not going to waste $3000+ just to play a few games and not be able to write documents and surf the web.
I just send the game to the TV and hook up a PSX->USB adaptor and vola, I have a console (I can put it at 800x600x16 and it still looks pretty good). Even though I like playing games on the TV, but I can't survive with only a TV. Therefore, I don't think the computer industry needs to be in the living room to survive.
Is this product meant to consolidate multiple media appliances into a single product, or is it supposed to replace my console, or is it supposed to replace my pvr?
Whether it is intended to consolidate multiple media appliances, it is obvious that it cannot succeed in doing so for the reasons outlined by the parent poster.
If it is meant to be an expensive console, then just sell me that.
The arguments that the TV makes a poor monitor misses the point.
The whole point is that PC gaming sucks. It really does. Complicated control schemes, techinical graphics settings, hardware incompatabilities, and 'we'll-fix-it-later' patching mindset really make the PC a poor gaming platform. This is supposed to allievate some of those problems. Which is good.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
That isn't a laptop, that is fricking luggage case.
I mean, if all you want is a mobile gaming system, then fine. But the way you put it... I mean, what the heck. Are you going to sit down in a conference room an open up a fricking 20" laptop in front of you on the table?
What, is it going to come complete with a periscope so that you can see the people sitting across from you?
all of our home computer are in the areas where people live. 2 are in the lounge rrom for viewing DVDs, writing, gameing, browsing etc. We moved away from the TV as our central entertainemnt medium and now use our computers for a whole lot more of our recreational time, i.e. cold nights...
There was an unknown error in the submission.
Overall, 2003 U.S. sales of console games totaled USD 5.8 billion (186.4 million units) while computer games accounted for USD 1.2 billion (52.8 million units) in sales.
Anyone having any luck getting output from the PC to an HDTV? I've been trying to research options about this for the upcoming Doom3.
I've a 34" Sony that can do 1080i and I'd love to get that working instead of my monitor.
I've heard ATI is much better at this but I'd rather stay with NVIDIA because of the linux drivers. Have an old Geforce 3 200ti at the moment. Would love to hear people's experiences.
Mind you, that consoles will prevail this war. They are designed for gaming; small caches, wide/fast busses, unlike computers that are in fact designed for general purpose usage.
l , for those interested.
There's an article available on the subject here http://arstechnica.com/cpu/2q00/ps2/ps2vspc-1.htm
As a note; that article discusses the PS2 vs. the PC. Now, there's something else than MS cheap ass approach with a stripped down x86. And PLEASE note the specs. on video memory and processor speed for the ps2 and how well it still performs compared to new PCs. Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow is beautiful.
Now, imagine the PS3...
PC gaming is surviving just fine RIGHT NOW.
Can ANY console provide the world and environment of Unreal Tournament? Can I install custom maps, mods, mutators, link it to my website? Can I administer it remotely?
NO. Not one. Consoles have YET to catch up with this kind of experience--and nevermind the horrible controls which SUCK for FPS games. I challenge anyone to stand up to me with one of those crappy left-handed console controllers vs ME with keyboard and mouse. I will wipe the floor with you.
Despite the usual nonsense Slashdot (and console heads) continually spout about "playing games in our oh-so-comfy living rooms on our TV sets", MY game room is QUITE comfy and QUITE well-lit.
And you know what? I was playing in my "comfy comfy living room" 20 odd years ago. It was called the Atari 2600. Know what survived the inevitable crash of the console market? That's right--the computer.
I can't WAIT for the next console market crash.
I've got two words for you: The Sims.
Ok, how about a few more? Myst brought more people in front of a computer than any other game. Lemmings brought in plenty of moms & dads. There are scads of "adventure" games out there that require no hand-eye co-ordination whatsoever (in fact, there's a revival of this genre going on right now).
And The Sims is a phenomenon all by itself.
Know what it all has in common? That's right: the PC.
I haven't upgraded in over two years. Since then I've played TWO generations of Unreal Tournament, KOTOR, Thief: DS, Gothic I & II, Soul Reaver/Legacy of Kain etc, etc, etc...
It all runs just fine. Unless you're one of those "MUST OVERCLOCK EVERYTHING" lunatics, if you are prudent with how you assemble your system, you will not NEED to upgrade for quite a while.
And you know what? My over two year old system will run DOOM3 JUST FINE.
This is a common console-head excuse, and it's just not true. How about two years down the road from now...is that X-Box going to be so hot? Hell no--the way Microsoft and Sony are pushing things, they WANT you to upgrade to the next-gen console every two years. Consoles do NOT mean "I don't have to upgrade ever again!"
I can cite TWO counter-examples to your theory: Deus Ex: Invisible War and Thief: Deadly Shadows.
BOTH need to be patched, even on the oh-so-mighty console. But guess what? They can't.
There are plenty of other examples too. Console games are just as buggy as PC games--don't blame the PC for a human issue. Even Microsoft knew this when they put a hard drive in the X-Box for crying out loud.
Honesty, the hubris of you console people astounds me some time. I cannot wait for the inevitable crash of the console market...AGAIN.
They must mean rarely used for sex... I mean cmon this is slashdot here.
Choose yer poison: Prophets or Profits
Up until last week, I never played a console since the NES years ago. I recently played some PS2 games and was actually shocked at the poor quality of the games and of the console.
The low resolution on the TV was the first thing that bothered me. Some ppl have pointed out that HDTV is a significant improvment, but a very high majority of people do not have one and will not be getting one for some time to come.
All the games I played seemed to be far behind any current PC game for graphics quality, but that's what you expect when you have to top your graphics quality off because your console's hardware is 3 years out of date. I was constantly annoyed by rendering artifacts and by the cheap looking surfaces that look like a college students GL project.
There is a reason why PC games have more complicated controls: The players want them. Most hardcore gamers will have lots of personalized controls setup because it's how they want it. Console games seem to be geared more towards the computer illiterate or beginner. Plug in and go! Their online subscription service is a tribute to that model.
Microsoft is a silly nickel and dime operation compared to Sony.
Uh... Whatever dude...
Sony vs. Microsoft
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
...Xbox was the first PC that was turned into a console!!
A morning without coffee is like something without something else.
MythTV.
oh, about 2K for a 'pc game system'? how much is the ps3 again?
pc games ARE better, but not so much more that it warrants dropping an extra 1500 on a gaming machine. some people have money to burn, but not me.
I guess it all comes down to opinions. I think FPS games are MUCH better with mouse and keyboard than ANY controller out there. Also, I think RPG's are better on PC too. In fact if a game comes out on both console and PC (like Splinter Cell) I always get the PC version. Better controls (opinion), better graphics (NOT opinion).
Finally, in my opinion, this thing will go out of business. PC gamers dont want to play PC games on their tv's. Console gamers biggest argument is that PC's are too expensive; so now people are going to pay 2000 for a PC that only plays games? Try word processing or web surfing on a tv, IT SUCKS ASS!!
Mark my words, this thing will go out of business. And PC games will never die!!!
How do I make mods of Bomberman, GoldenEye, or Super Smash Bros. Melee without violating the DMCA and without emigrating to a country that doesn't have the DMCA yet? Or let's put it another way: If Half-Life were a console game, then how could anybody have made Counter-Strike?
My computer monitor has fewer visual artifacts than my TV (shadowing, faint snow).
Are you using an RF modulator? If so, you need a new TV, preferably one with S-video inputs. At least all Nintendo consoles since the Super NES have been able to output S-video. This will help improve the TV's sharpness and color accuracy as well, as S-video carries brightness and color on separate wire pairs.
Really, the only things that TVs have going for them are that they're big.
A large display means you can crowd four people around one system rather than having to buy four expensive system. There exist numerous game designs that allow for four players without splitting the screen into quadrants, such as Bomberman and Smash Bros.
The thing is, if it gets him laid, you'll probably want to revise that opinion.
People who think consoles are too cheap? those who want to crank down ther resolution on their computer?
This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
The Infinium Labs Phantom comes out with heavy metal fury and slays them all.
Woah... what the hell did I just smoke?
I have a question for you: what graphics card out there with DVI outputs that support 1280x720 display natively? Does that current ATI Radeon 9700/9800/X800 and the nVidia Geforce FX 5xxx and 6XXX series of card offer a true 1280x720 driver (and NO, I don't want a "close approximation" with the 1280x768 WXGA display driver).
I mention this because the most DLP, LCD and LCOS RPTV's run in 1280x720 mode.
'It's high time that the computer stop lurking in the shadows of dusty computer desks in forgotten rarely-used bedrooms [...]'
Honestly it jumps in with the idea that computer gaming is dying and console gaming is the funky-fresh place to be! I mean, really, who bothers to use that computer anyways? It's off in some dusty, disused bedroom where people never use it to post articles to /. or complain on message boards about how "1335" console gaming is.
For all the console-centric bashing of computer gaming the console faithful certainly seem to have at least one computer to use to complain with.
Ah well, I shouldn't be feeding the troll, but who really plays in a "well-lit" room for PC or console games? I keep my living room dark as well. Not only do I have the tv calibrated to be accurate to a darkened room, but with games like Metroid Prime or Eternal Darkness you really don't want to play in bright light. I do notice that many console games tend to be overly dark as well... maybe they just have the brightness set to assume an uncalibrated, overly-bright tv still set at the showroom defaults.
I agree that PC gaming is probobly more expensive than console, especially if you want to get the most out of it. But i think some people are a little confused about the cost. I want to see how much PC gamers out there spend per year to keep their rig up to date.
I think i have a pretty fast computer and i KNOW i can play any game out there (yes, DOOM 3). And i really only spend about 150 - 300 a year. Maybe 200 on average. I try to upgrade one component a year or maybe two. AND YES, I know that this is more than a console, so don't reply just to say "I only spend 300 every 5 years." But for some of us with good jobs who need a computer anyways, the extra cost of a high end video card is really not that much. So, what do you spend?
I thought I was logged in, sorry.
computer games accounted for USD 1.2 billion
1.1 billion of which is accounted for by The Sims and The Sims related games.
Splinter Cell is something that I wouldn't want to play on PC because it works perfectly with the XBox controller. It's a stealth game, so the analog sticks are the best way to do that.
And is there a specific reason why you can't plug quality analog sticks into your PC?
The big problem with console games is that users can't mod them.
I have an LCD TV that functions as a monitor for my linux box (which will soon play Neverwinter Nights, Doom 3, and UT2004) and a TV. In front of it, I have a piece of a sectional couch. The sofa piece is wide, so it can easily accomodate my laser mouse on the side. Combined with a keyboard on my lap, it is perfect for anything. And, sitting in the same place, I can switch easily to playing on my XBOX or PS2. All without this expensive contraption, who would have guessed...
I agree, gaming in a well lit environment, and even worse in company of non-gamers, is very uncomfortable and you just can't get your "A" game on. you have to have a "den" not like a family room, like the cave kind.
Seriously. When I play Doom 3, I want the room entire pitch black and silent. I'm even going to unplug my USB cords (they are LED lit) and turn off my mouse pad so all of the blue glow of my room will not exist. Playing a horror game in the bright light is for pansies. Hah.
"Instant gratification takes too long." - Carrie Fisher
Those in the know like to build our own Home Theater Computer (HTPC) with similiar components for much cheaper, by learning information from AVSFORUM, which is kind of a HTPC geek's forum:
AVSFORUM Home Theater Computers Forum
(Claimed to be the world's biggest Home Theater Computers forum - over 100,000 posts)
I hope that you have many pairs of spare underpants waiting nearby ;)
Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
"If PC gaming is going to survive it's going to have to do so in the well-lit family rooms and dens of America right along side the GameCube, PS2 and Xbox"
.NET."
That sounds about as likely as the claim that "MUDs will die out soon unless they are converted to better languages like
ND
This statement is forty-five characters long.
...take a pc game, optimized for pc monitors, which generally have higher resolution capabilities than any televisions out there, and play it on a TV??? Why??? This is a retarded idea. PC games should be played on a pc...if you want a console system for the living room, just get one...jeez.
As I have said before, one of the things that sets PCs apart from console gaming is the fact that PCs have for a long time now been free of the limitations of low-resolution NTSC/PAL/S-Video/whatever display modes. Sure, it sounds good to play your favorite PC game on your 35" TV instead of your 19" monitor, but your 19" monitor is probably capable of at least 4 times the horizontal and vertical resolution and much higher framerates.
;)
Maybe when CRTs are long gone and everyone watches sitcoms on plasma TVs and projectors (not to be confused with rear-projection TVs) will it be worth playing PC games on a TV instead of a monitor. Even most of those that I've seen can't do the 1280x960 res that my 17" Samsung can do at 85Hz without problems and with crystal clarity.
The exception to this is older games which run in 640x480 (or lower), which would be playable and actually tend to look rather nice on TVs due to the automatic full scene anti-aliasing they provide
Arguing about vi versus Emacs is like arguing whether it's better to make fire by rubbing sticks or banging rocks.
"If PC gaming is going to survive it's going to have to do so in the well-lit family rooms and dens of America right along side the GameCube, PS2 and Xbox"
Whoops, PC Gaming vs. Console Gaming misconception #1: "PC gaming will die off because consoles will eventially have the same horsepower for a lower price."
WRONG.
It's an utter falicy that the PC needs to fight for it's life against a console in the gaming world for one simple fact-- Gaming on the PC is completely different. First, consider the kind of games you play on the PC versus those you play on a console. It's all an issue of complexity, and half of that is the input devices availible to you. Information management is where the console falls flat on it's face, into the mud and stays there. And it's not likely to get up anytime soon because of the fundemental philosophy behind it-- All information must be accessed through a gamepad in order to make gaming as brainless as possible. Even in comparible (and simpler) games, like FPSs, you will never find a device equal to a mouse, and it's something that console makers give a wide berth in favor of the formentioned philosophy.
Also, the PC is the home of grass roots gaming. With a PC, you can become the next Counter Strike of gaming. Speaking of which, what was the last count of people playing that mod? Yeah, keep telling me PC gamin is in trouble 9_9 The PC will also always be the home of cutting edge gaming, since developers don't have to wait until the next full out console release 3 years down the road to push the envelope a little further. If it's good, people will upgrade their hardware right the and there just to buy your product, royalty free I might add. No console barons, specialized code/hardware required.
But I guess we have to break out The Death of Gaming myth just to keep things lively now and then, right?
You need a FREE iPod Nano
man is your bedsheet navy blue like mine? :)
Well, only hate my cousins and 1 of my brother's
Maybe my sister at times and my dad when he used to chase me and man my mom as well when she spanked me damn my other brother as well when he rose up against me, he's now 6 foot, i'm puny at 5' 9"
I'm a semi-gamer, who can't play multiplayer because of my laggy 56k which I won't curse on others.
So, so true. Best gaming experience of my life was my one-sitting playthrough of System Shock 2 in a room lit only by the computer monitor and wearing a high-quality pair of headphones.
I'm told that I whimpered in my sleep for about two weeks.
We are the Many...
But with that you need to remember that number is ALL of the consoles combined. So sure if you compare the sales of 3+ platforms to the sale of one platform you are going to get a higher number. If you look at the sales per major console(3, PS2, XBOX, and GC) that is about 1.9 Billion each. We also do not know what consoles they included in that total. (did they include the GBA, some forign console I never heard of?)
I tried to google for total games sales of just one of the consoles but I can't seem to find much.
PS2 software sales in 2003 amounted to a little under $3 billion [...] with almost 80 million software units sold
That means that the PS2 library alone pulled in more than double the gross monetary sales of all computer games (PC & Mac) combined. And the console games offered a higher profit margin, too.
Meaning that PC sales are about on Par with the Xbox and gamecube. All that says is that the PS2 is ahead of everyone else, which would only bring up a reousnding 'DUH'
I don't understand how this is such a revolutionary kick in the nuts. I can do this with my current computer in about 2 minutes with a couple of cables.
If I want to play Halo or some MAME games or whatever on my TV, all I need to do is grab my s-video and miniplug-to-1/4" cables (for the stereo), take my laptop upstairs, plug in those 2 things and an external keyboard and mouse, and I'm good to go. If I want to listen to my MP3s on my good stereo, I just plug my laptop into my stereo, perhaps launch a no-sleep app so I can close the lid and put it in the stereo cabinet, and whoobie-doo.
Plus, when I'm done playing Halo or acting like a dancing fool, I can just unplug the cables, take my laptop back downt o my room at my desk, and I have a normal computer setup. Total cost over my existing home computer setup: 5 bucks.
Besides, I almost never do this. Personally, I prefer to play my computer games on my crisp LCD screen at a dense 1280x854 resolution, instead of 720x486 (or whatever standard NTSC screen resolution is) or an overscanned 800x600 on my TV.
(Yeah, consoles put out great graphics on TVs, but imagine if they could run games at normal monitor resolutions; pants around the world would be soiled)
So, what's the deal with the gaming industry? Are they unwilling to sell to the loyal customers that have put the industry where it currently is now - the geeks?
It would seem to me that the following scenario might emmerge:
- gamers are being abandoned by game companies for the mass-produced consumer markets
- gamers will no longer have games that meet their interests
- new, innovative home-brew companies will pop up to meet the need, producing more fun games
THis might not be possible, due to the current situation with games where the development process is quite involved, but I still see it as possible. I personally hope it is, as I can't see myself playing many of the games made in the last few years...
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
...If PC gaming is going to survive ...
At what point did it look like it was dying?
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
I'm primarily a PC gamer (or perhaps getting to be more of an ex-gamer, I haven't been really addicted since the original Unreal Tournament, heh), but a friend of mine purchased a Gamecube and 4 controllers. Playing Mario Party or some such game together, guzzling down some beers before going out is simply great.
Is there any game on the PC that can be operated by 4 people, with only one machine? I doubt it. Two tops. The controls are hardly complex (which may be a good thing %-)... ) but it sure is fun. The PC is great if you're one person/PC, playing FPS/RTS/whatever. But for multiplayer without everyone bringing their own machine, it plain sucks.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
enough with these new fangled gaming systems my commodore 64 does it all... but i should have got the rust proofing...
All the torrents you could want.
Wow, that's exactly what i was going to post! SS2 was such a thrill. I hate the fact it doesn't run on win2k, i'd love to play it again some time.
Iwan
That's what candles are for, you freak. And why would you want to fertilize them if it's only a girlfriend? Get married before you start getting people pregnant!
"It's high time that the computer stop lurking in the shadows of dusty computer desks in forgotten rarely-used bedrooms"
...but in my case the aforementioned bedroom is daily-used.
- "They misunderestimated me."
Agreed. I can only enjoy a game fully from my underground bunker in the south Pacific, complete with hydraulic platforms, arrays of huge screens, walls full of blinking lights, and all kinds of useless machinery that looks really freaking cool. You should've been there when we were playing Goldeneye in that baby. With real guns.
You should set up a webcam. Then the thousands of viewers on slashdot will tell you who's doing it.
It worked for me.
'It's high time that the computer stop lurking in the shadows of dusty computer desks in forgotten rarely-used bedrooms. If PC gaming is going to survive it's going to have to do so in the well-lit family rooms and dens of America right along side the Game Cube, PS2 and Xbox
Most consoles I have ever seen are sitting slap bang along side a PC in peoples bedrooms etc and if the console is in a family place then the PC is right there next to it anyway, PC's don't need to "compete" with Consoles there a different machine, it's like a sports car trying to be a truck or vice a versa both are excellent at what there designed for but don't work when doing the others job.
Saying Apple is better than MS is like saying Botulism is better than rabies.
I'm doing the exact same thing. My nice new surround sound system should help too. Oh, I would reccomend electrical tape on LEDs, rubbing alcohol gets the gunk off when it's peeled off. (or goo-gone, a nice product)
Not a sentence!
This would be a great place for Linux to break into the gaming market. Knoppix already does all the hardware detecting and such so it would just be a matter of the game developer writing their game for Linux and making it start up automatically. If they started doing this, it would actually have two potential results. 1. An actual linux game market, and 2. a possible future linux based console with a bunch of games already out.
I already do exactly this when I want to watch TV on one of my windows machines using Knoppmyth. Just drop in the disk and boot up the frontend. (Obviously you have to have a backend running someplace else on the network first.)
If you'll notice the trends, console makers are trying to make their consoles more like computers so that PC users will switch to them. You don't seen PCs trying to become more like consoles.
Consoles are lagging far behind technology-wise. The only reason they succeed is because the general populace of youth and young adults of America are so illiterate they don't know how to operate a computer.
I'm quite comfortable that my computer can emulate, perform better and look better than any console on the market.
Let's face it, any time some PC game company tries to make an STB version of a PC game it ends up sucking. Look at Everquest for the PC vs. Everquest for the STB. PC graphics are still better, well unless you have an HDTV, but again once you add the price of the HDTV to the price of the STB you can't even argue price difference.
Basically, STB's are for the poor and weak minded.
A $150 XBOX with XBox Media Center can do everything that this $2000 computer can do, minus the PVR stuff. However, you can get a tried and true TIVO for another $150... which means you have the option between $300 and $2000... but all the same features.
Korea is the biggest online gaming market in the world, and guess what? Microsoft and Sony retreated from marketing their consoles directly because they just couldn't get a foothold. PC gaming isn't going anywhere soon. The US isn't the whole world, and isn't even the most important market anymore (ask Valve).
It shouldn't set you back $2K, even all-new.
$50 Micro-ATX case
$100 SilenX 320W Micro-ATX psu
$70 XP 2500+
$50 Nforce2 Mobo
$75 512MB RAM
$100 HDD
$70 DVD+-RW
$100 Radeon 9600 (fanless) + $30 component dongle (for the non-DVD folks-- DVI people can use practically any DVI video card)
$50ish Zalman HSF for PSU
$130 Dvico Fusion HDTV III tuner card
$100 Wireless mouse+kb
Comes out to $925, and I'm sure you can do better, especially if you've got some parts (HDD, case, DVD-RW, CPU, fans, et...) you can re-use. You can also drop the HDTV tuner card and the ATI component dongle if you don't need them, and switch to a cheaper video card if you're just using it for older games.
Let's see. I could go into my home office, lock the door, and play on my very sharp, very fast computer monitor, at 1024 lines, with nothing between the CPU and the screen but 2m of cable. Or, I could fight for time on the family TV set, with its slow, fuzzy image, through a lashup to convert the picture to RF so it can be reconverted, at 525 lines. Boy howdy, I just can't wait for that lower quality experience.
Guys'n'gals, just because integrating a sports car and a furniture van is possible doesn't mean it makes sense. (See _National Lampoon's Vacation_ if you want a look at the resulting vehicle.) I for one have been working hard to keep my computing and TV viewing activities as far apart as possible. (And I don't want either one to migrate into my refrigerator door either!)
TiVo
Doug
Pc gaming isn't going anywhere. The author's point of view is flawed. The PC is a multifunction platform and because of that it has value in more than one arena than just gaming. The gaming system has only on value point. It's kind of like suggesting that because Pratt and Whitney have just produced the best engine ever, one that has engine enthusiasts drooling, that the car is going to be dead now. The engine does drive the car market, the car drives the engine market. Sure the engine is a very important part, but the driver in the larger picture. These platforms will certainly have a niche and should do well. But their position will not be a leader, but a follower of the larger market.
Its simple really:
http://pwp.netcabo.pt/Tobril/xbox.jpg
versus
http://pwp.netcabo.pt/Tobril/pc.jpg
am i rite?
...unfortunately no one can be told what The Mat^H^H^HGoatse is...they must experience it for themselves...
Damn preview window showing me one thing then final post showing another :(
...unfortunately no one can be told what The Mat^H^H^HGoatse is...they must experience it for themselves...
Yup! XBOX = loser!
Is to be able to drop console games into the PC and have it play just fine.
Come on folks, the processing power of the PC alone should make this a cinch...
Probably just wishful thinking.
Gaming PC's blow away consoles. They do not "Try To Stack Up To Consoles". Everytime i buy a console i play it for a couple months and then end up back on the pc
http://www.npcgaming.com Dedicated Gaming Servers
Consoles are great but one of the biggest problems with the current batch is that they eliminate independant game development. What does this mean to the consumer? Less variety for one thing. Higher prices for another. Just compare the prices of two year old releases - console version vs. PC version.
In this regard computers are a much more open market. If standards emerge which enable us to develop independant titles for affordable gaming consoles I'm all for it. In the end the hardware may need to cost a little more (as the console developer may not always make as much on titles) but the overall cost to the end user will be a good value.
OK, then how do I legitimately make my own console games from scratch for Xbox, GameCube, or GBA, without using hardware made by companies that the console makers are trying to sue into oblivion?
It has always struck me as rather odd that Namco and co. have overlooked the benefits the PC environment offers to the likes of Tekken 4 and Soul Calibur II. Today's gaming PCs would, I think, be quite capable of handling them from a hardware standpoint, and the plethora of USB gamepads means there'd be a controller to suit most every taste; those two issues could hardly be impediments.
A big advantage to a PC version of, for instance, SC2, is expandability: the manufacturer can easily offer and distribute post-release content - new stages, characters, alternate outfits, and the like. It might even be possible to take a page from Total Annihilation and GTA3 and provide means for players to use their own music.
Online capability would be another strong point. Not only could tournaments be easily set up, but players can challenge one another's performance in the various single-player mored (i.e. fastest victory).
- White Knight of the Order of Mihoshi Enthusiasts
Ha ha! You called PS2 controllers "quality". Funny.
There exist USB adapters for N64 controllers, for Xbox controllers, and for GameCube controllers. Which console controller do you prefer?
However, the big benefit with online console games is that users can't mod them to cheat.
True, which is why some PC games use a method of challenge-reponse authentication similar to that of Netrek, ensuring an environment either without mods or with only approved mods.
Still, ignoring mods for proprietary commercial games, how can a member of the general C++-speaking public create and distribute games for consoles? Sure, there's the Linux add-on for American and European PlayStation 2 consoles, but how can a homebrew developer test programs on systems such as Xbox, GameCube, or GBA, without using tools manufactured by companies that the console makers are trying to sue into oblivion?
you know i think that would be a great gaming facility, i wish i had one. i mean who wouldn't want a bunker to game in? it adds to the realism and prevents annoying interruptions. rock on.