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Has anyone checked out:

http://www.empeg.com/

I'm thinking about buying it.

There was a piece on /. a while back on the empeg web site here. They might be a bit pricy, but they have done what you want to do, and then some. It might be worth while to check it out for ideas.

go to www.empeg.com and see what you think. 36 Gb of mp3 files in a unit that fits in your dashboard like a standard stereo, but it runs Linux and it rocks!
I zapped all my CD's onto mine, downloaded a couple of ones and put on some of my own band - it is seriously versatile!


Frog51

The point here isn't that everyone needs to convert their MP3's to Vorbis. They'll just need to start encoding their music files from CD using the Vorbis codec. The value-add is the quality and size. It's much more believable that the Vorbis codec will gain widespread acceptance as a format whereas with a proprietary format like SMDI, where's the value-add for the consumers? On top of this, the value-add for software publishers is that this is a free codec, so the only cost of adding it to MusicMatch Jukebox or AudioCatalyst is the development. Thanks to competition in the market, I'd bet that the developers will be quick to add this to their encoders so their marketing materials can boast that the product supports the superior Ogg Vorbis format.

As for hardware support (portables, DVD players), I'd bet the manufacturers like Diamond and Apex are salivating over the widespread embrace of a new format like Ogg Vorbis. There's no way they'd just provide a flash upgrade to enable OV support! To them, a new format is a new hardware purchase. For something like the Empeg, they'd probably be happy to provide a software patch that would bring support for a new format like Ogg Vorbis.

There are some similarities and differences between TiVo/Replay and Napster, but what we really need instead of Napster is some version of TiVo/Replay for radio. Although there are none (to my knowledge) in my area, I understand that some radio stations broadcast song/artist names that can be read by receivers-- so most of the infrastructure needed is already in place. Your radio simply has to scan the airwaves for artist/songnames that you like, and record them to a hard disk. Perfectly legal timeshifting, just like recording radio broadcasts always has been.

Now, granted, most of the music *I* want to listen to is not available on the radio in this area *ever*, but for people who are interested in more popular music selections, this sort of device would be absolutely awesome. Want the latest Madonna track for free? Set your radio to grab it next time it comes on.

In fact... it seems like it wouldn't take much modification work to get something like the empeg set up to do exactly this. (I don't know if it supports the song title system, but I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult, and the rest would just be software mods.)

Additionally, there are sources like the categorized all-music digital channels you get from DSS providers, as well as sources like MTV.

Obviously, there are some kinks to work out, but I think it's just as doable as TiVo, and unlike napster, it's legal AND free.

Spitzer said at a press conference the states were still calculating the exact amount of the damages, but said they amounted to ``hundreds of millions of dollars'' or ``several dollars per CD.''

so... i have around 400 cds. by my calculations, the riaa owes me $1200. empeg, here i come!

but joking aside... what will happen to the cash that the courts make the riaa cough up? as a major purchaser of cds, i'd sure like to be refunded for some of the cost of my music.
--

Yep, our chief tech has an Airport Bridge in his Miata, connected to his empeg, and can download music to it as if it were on the local net. There are lots of potential applications for this technology, which is backed up with a neat wakeup and task schedule facility (so you can do timed stuff without running your car battery flat).

Example - get your PC to drag down internet news or market reports before you wake up and transfer them to your car, for listening on the morning commute.

rob@empeg.com

Writing your own player firmware is not easy. I bought a copy of ISO 11172-3 (the MPEG1 audio spec), and it's quite complicated. There are lots of open source players, but they all use floating point math, because it's so much easier and runs fine on any modern PC. Maybe I'll write this someday. If I do, I'll GPL it.

For now, I'm not using this EP7209 chip right now, mainly because it's in a 208 pin high density surface mount package, and one of the goals of my homebrew MP3 player project is to offer a design and components that an average electronics hobbist can build.

Of course, it'll be a challenge to make the existing decoder chips (MAS35077D and STA013) SDMI compliant, since they don't interact with the user, so they could only see the trigger and perhaps tell the microcontroller chip to prompt the user. Since these chips lack non-volatile memory (and probably always will), any player like mine that is open source will allow the user to interact with the chip however they like.

I doubt they'll manage to make these chips SDMI compliant in any meaningful way, but it's still a very scary thought... this guy's obviously in bed with the RIAA and maybe he's just speculating, or maybe he knows something?

Since we're chatting about portable sound, anyone know of any good in-car or in-dash .mp3 players? Not a portable you plug in, but something you actually install in the vehicle?

My dream one day is running a CAT-5 cable out the the car and downloading!

Empeg is what you want. Better start saving now, though. They ain't cheap.

-Isaac

The advantage of the ARM platform is that it's a decent, high performance and low power embedded system. For example, if you wanted to build an in-dash MP3 player you might want to use a StrongARM processor.

At one point I was planning a StrongARM based embedded device and looked at these boards as a way to get the software guys up and running before my hardware was ready. I later settled on a MIPS processor before the project was scrapped.

Bottom line - you can't beat an off-the-shelf PC motherboard and processor for price/performance. There's no way anything else can compete because of the volumes that PC stuff is made in.

They have made something like that already. You put it in your car and it has voice recognition. Also you can just pull it out to take it to parties and stuff, or get a second rack for another car.

But why would you want to carry around a few dozen CDs? If you want it stuck to your car, get an empeg. If you want a portable, the Nomad Jukebox is probably the best thing out there. Too bad it doesn't support Linux.

With the general lack of Linux USB support, it's still looking like I'll have to build my own player if I want something decent.

--

CompactFlash is much easier to handle than SmartMedia... I'm the kind of person that scratches CDs easily, and I'd be scared to have those (relatively) delicate SmartMedia cards. Can anyone here adapt this hack ("hack this hack"?) to be able to use CompactFlash? Plus, there are more applications for CompactFlash (The TRGPro for example) that would offset the cost of an IBM MicroDrive.

Could this control a Hard drive as well? It'd be nice to be able to make your own EMPEG type device.. Throw on your own LCD and one of these monsters and you're set. 75 Gigs of MP3 storage. Is there a better way to do this than with these schematics?

http://www.empeg.com
Seems like what you're asking for.

However, it doesn't look like anyone here is actually in the know in regards to the next generation of Empeg, the Mark 2. It already has voice recognition - check the feature list in the newsletters.

The Mark 2 player will start shipping next month.

And you call yourselves geeks! None of you even knew about this!

Any $600 solution will be crap compared to the Empeg in terms of sound quality and usefulness.

However, it doesn't look like anyone here is actually in the know in regards to the next generation of Empeg, the Mark 2. It already has voice recognition - check the feature list in the newsletters.

The Mark 2 player will start shipping next month.

And you call yourselves geeks! None of you even knew about this!

Any $600 solution will be crap compared to the Empeg in terms of sound quality and usefulness.

(slightly informative, slightly off-topic - hope the moderators have fun :) ).

I know of an in-car MPEG Player, it's the EMPEG system. IIRC it runs Linux as well.

It can be overcome pretty well by booting from flash memory. That's what the empeg does; it can boot in about 8 seconds, maybe less.

MP3 decoding can be done with a SA-1100 CPU in anywhere from 24-43% of real time, depending on the decoder. In fact I am working on such a decoder.

-v

With a CD solution you have to burn music to a CD to enjoy in in the car. Personally, I love my empeg, and have had only needed to hook it to my computer a few times after the initial load. To me, hooking up a USB cable to an easy to cary car player isn't all that hard compaired to burning music to CD and having to maintain yet another CD collection.

The Mark II will be shipping June 9 with storage between 6 gig and 50 gig. With 50 gigs, I don't know anyone with a CD collecton big enough to fill it. Plus the new design looks sweet.

The empeg runs Linux and is very open to future modifications. The new player uses an external tuner to allow support down the road for Digital FM. People are working on adding GPS support to the unit, and in the end, you will wave your Palm in front of the empeg to get a hi res version of a map. And unlike the Clairon AutoPC, the processor is powerful enough for doing things today and in the future. (Playing an MP3 with visuals leaves 70% of the CPU open for anything else. Right now I run the D.net client to take up the rest of the CPU on the road)

Thats odd. The web site says nothing about playing MP3's. If I remember right, the processor in the origional one is not powerful enough to play MP3's. And it's always run WinCE, as it was codeveloped by Clairon and Microsoft.

If you want MP3 and future standards playing in your car, save yourself the trouble and buy an empeg. Look for the Mark II to ship June 9, and Mark I units to be for sale on eBay.

Here is a pricy pre-made one.
Here is a much cheaper one that is also pre-made.
And This is all you need to know to make your own car MP3 player!

You want this then:
http://www.empeg.com

http://www.empeg.com/

Now that's what you want! A little bit pricey, but loads of space, and it runs linux :)

I recall reading about what these guys were doing a while ago. Apparently, the original implementation had a radio link, so the guy could upload / download mp3s to his car while it was parked in the garage. Now why doesn't someone big like Compaq do something like that?

Nik.

Here's a nice one.

Seriously - go check out Empeg.
It is exactly what you need. Linux device the size of a car stereo with up to 490 minutes of mp3 songs. Blue display - has plugins like geiss for winamp - matches my Golf GTI turbo dashboard.

Smooth!!!

I wouldn't be suprised either. In fact, its already been done! :)

• http://www.empeg.com/
• http://www.ryanspc.com/carmp3/
• http://www.chaos.org.uk/~altman/mp3mobil e/
• http://carmp3.halo3.net/

You may already have seen this, but empeg.com make a car-radio-size mp3 player.

> The empeg-car is an in-car digital music
> player, allowing you to have up to 7,000
> singles (or over 500 albums) instantly
> accessible in CD-quality, in your
> dashboard.

Comes as default with 4Gb for about $1000. Can be upgraded to 28Gb. Includes all the usual car-radio stuff, RDS etc. Runs Linux and Python on a StrongARM.

http://www.empeg.com/

andy.

I don't know if they left off the internal amp so much as to save money or to be more like a competition deck with 2 sets of RCA outs.

From what I recall reading on www.empeg.com and from viewing the pictures, the real reason is simply that they ran out of room in the case.

Certainly from the pictures they ha[ve|d] on the site, it's easy to see how a power amp & heatsink can't sit in close proximity to the m/board & hard drive.

At the price point they're marketing at, I certainly believe that retaining the standard head-unit form factor & making it removable was a better decision than compromising on form factor to fit in an amp.

From the Empeg website

Cost: projected price US$1099 (excluding shipping) for 4Gb version.

This implies that not only is the player not available (actually it does seem to be available as beta, whatever that means) but it's going to cost more than 3 times the cost of an average MP3 player. The purpose of my post is that there should be more companies working on car MP3 players (Sony, Pioneer, Rio, etc.) instead of 1 company selling an overpriced buggy product.
PS: Check out MP3Car.com if you're interested in finding out about playing MP3s in your car.

See Empeg.com and stop complaining.

For one good use of a MP3 capable watch what about people who exercise by running or jogging? Seems like a watch would be much better than something you clip on your belt (which many people don't wear when jogging anyway).

Whine Whine Whine...

I've been considering getting an Empeg of late, and just went and checked on their site - the Empeg has RDS capability. I do hope they set it up as an option and not a required thing - and I figure they did.

Ahem. www.empeg.com.

Rich

That's fun, but I'd rather see an ARM system. Much less power consumption, and there already are a bunch of Linux systems that use it, like the Empeg car radio.

There aren't but a couple of things I need:

New car stereo

A Car worthy of the system.

MD is much more versatile than MP3 and until MP3 units are able to store in the region of 128MB, I won't be buying one.

Heh, if you are waiting for 128, then go ahead and by one, most 2nd generation players have 128 megs chips or flash cards...but the cool stuff is the multi-gig stuff. Like the Empeg and the HanGo Player

I have used both, and both rock.
-Davidu

I think Rebel.com has done an excellent job with the Netwinder. It's a small computer using a SA1100 StrongARM processor. It's the same processor used in the Empeg car audio player and can do what you want and much more. It not only runs Linux, but it was designed specifically for Linux. I had a chance to talk with them at Linux World and I can tell you they're a small shop full of good people.

You may also look at the LART project being done in TuDelft, Netherlands. I don't think they're selling anything (yet?) but it's nice to see Linux on a small processor capable of some real power. I don't have a link handy, oops.

Or, you could use a uCsimm. It's a port of Linux to the Dragonball microcontroller with integrated Ethernet. It all fits on a 30 pin simm complete with Flash. I consider that to be really cool. There are many more choices out there than plain ol' Linux on x86. Don't limit yourself.

Great - competition for the empeg player - this seems like a better option though - since empeg is designed to mount in your car. My concerns: * cost - $800 seems way high * hard disk failure - will we be able to swap it out when it fails On the plus side though, it is good to see continued momentum in the MP3 market and specifically at these consumer electronics toys. Just in time for Christmas!

-=-=-=-=-

I don't find this trend annoying at all, as long as the new hardware has enough technical documentation freely available for Linux developers to work with. I think the greatest gains are usually only possible if you don't have to maintain backwards compatibility with old software. As long as documentation is available, new hardware that increases performance and decreases cost can only help propel Linux (and other open source software) further ahead of the closed source competition.

Think about it. A lot of new and exciting things are now coming out due to the source code availability of Linux. Empeg car MP3 players, Playstation 2, that Linux powered high speed ethernet switch, etc all come to mind. So what if new hardware requires tweaked software? It just makes it harder for Microsoft to keep up with us.

(I'm assuming you don't mean things like the empeg)

The 12Vold DC power from a car battery would be readily adaptable to use by such a device, and you ould get an enclosure from Radio Crap.

You mean, like, reinventing empeg ?
See Empeg MP3 car player if you want that...

There is already one on the market that will get you out of Texas. :) Empeg is the name of the player. Slashdot has had several stories already. It is like a Rio for your car, so not cool in the same way as this device; CDs aren't an option. But it does have an FM tuner and "Up to 28.2Gb of disk storage, with approximately 17 hours of CD-quality stereo audio per Gb." ... And it runs linux! Bloody expensive though. ~$1000 for the 4GB version.

There is already one on the market that will get you out of Texas. :) Empeg is the name of the player. Slashdot has had several stories already. It is like a Rio for your car, so not cool in the same way as this device; CDs aren't an option. But it does have an FM tuner and "Up to 28.2Gb of disk storage, with approximately 17 hours of CD-quality stereo audio per Gb." ... And it runs linux! Bloody expensive though. ~$1000 for the 4GB version.

You want something way cool that is NOT vapor? The empeg car.

This thing makes me salivate. A removable in-dash MP3 player. Connect it to your PC to download music, create playlists, etc. Put it back in your car and use the remote to select your song/playlist. Store 476 hours of music on it (that's three weeks straight without a repeat). It has an awesome LED GUI including real-time visuals. And, it runs Linux. If you know a little Python, you can create your own custom GUI for it!

The case was made that you need special disk drives that can read and write simultaneously. How hard will this be to emulate, by just using enough RAM as an intermediate buffer between the receiver and a disk drive (or RAID array)? It's getting to the point that 256M desktops aren't that rare or that expensive. (I'm writing this from a 512M machine. A consumer PC will probably need at least that much to run M$ Win2K comfortably, anyway! :-)

And if I can make my linux desktop act like a personal VCR, I'll have a lot more customizability for the interface, and a lot more programmable operation. Does anyone want to start work on a Linux PVCR project?

All the technology exists - We've had RDS in the UK for a decade, the hardware is simple, even the EMPEG player has RDS.
It lets a station broadcast in many areas on different frequencies, sending an ID code with the signal, and the RDS stereo just searches for that ID. This also allows local traffic news to cut in if you want.

You're pissed that while some people complain that the "glory days" of computing have "ended" (I tend to disagree; the grassroots manner in which free software is taking over the world can only be described as a glorious revolution), people will write off a new face in the computing world because they seem to be marketing their product quite badly. Thus, the computing world of the 70's and 80's has been twisted into the corporate mess of the 90's.

While I too lament the dominant force which media, marketing and corporations wield in our consumer society, I think in this particular case the naysayers have it right. Why do I think this? Basically one word: capital. Mass-producing a piece of hardware requires vast resources, and even constructing a prototype (which looks as nice as this one does) requires a decent amount of cash. Now, I'll accept that this could be a labor of love, the prototype painstakingly constructed, squeezing every penny available for what it was worth. But in this case, I would expect that the inventor would be proud enough of his invention to post information on his site. For an example of how I would expect such a project as this to happen, look at the Empeg. The site is not as squeaky-clean as, say, Diamond, but it is full of pictures and tech specs. The love is clear. With the fellow linked to above, I'm not so sure the love is there.

Hardware (especially consumer-grade hardware) has traditionally been made by companies with many resources to speak of. Think IBM, Intel, Sun, Apple, DEC, AT&T, Microsoft (in recent years), and so on. Occasionally people break onto the scene, but their products are almost never as polished as those produced by the big companies. Not that that is a bad thing necessarily, just that the polish of this product in particular is incongruous with the lack of polish on his web page. Also, why go to the trouble of drawing the thing when purportedly the real thing is sitting next to the computer ready to be photographed?

Now of course, software is a totally different issue. Writing a piece of software requires no tools other than a computer, persistence, ingenuity and programming experience, altogether not requiring much capital at all. In fact, it is precisely this low cost of entry that got all of our favorite geeks on their way to fame and (for some) fortune: Richard Stallman, Bill Gates, Marc Andreesen, Linus Torvalds, and all the rest. And in fact, you can expect shitty marketing from a programmer (in fact, shitty marketing probably means the product is better). All I'm saying is that you can't look at hardware the same way.

-josh

..."and even without the Windows licensing fee, a hardware company would still have to pay the relatively high prices for Intel chips, Jupiter's Card said."

What?! They previously link the Empeg for a Linux based computer that runs on StrongARM chips and now it (Linux) only runs on Intel chips?!

Come on people!

Not only that, but the kernel is now running on the Motorolla Dragonball processor (used in the Palm Pilot lineup).

People need to start checking their facts!

Have you evered read the tech specs on that empeg car mp3 player? It keeps the disks spun down as much as possible, and has enough ram to slurp most, if not all, of the current mp3 into volatile memory. That's probably the best way to go about doing any non-solidstate type of portable music player.