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You can get a Sharp Actius RD3D with Linux installed. The 3D effect works under Linux.

OK, I fibbed. It's a Linux notebook.

Summary: Very small portable computer with a regular keyboard. The base system is built on a name-brand hardware (Sharp) with a customized Linux distribution on it. The customizations take care of the specific hardware; just like Dell, IBM, Compaq/HP, Sony, and -- well -- Sharp do for the customized versions of Windows they ship. Includes support, and yes you can update the packages -- just don't expect support for packages they don't provide.

The company selling this one has other name-brand hardware that fit other categories of notebook/laptops.

Element computer also has a good selection of hardware customized for Linux. Not rebranded IBM/Sony/Sharp/... though you can get a notepad laptop of you want -- ready to go -- and it looks like good stuff. They do not sell Windows, so you won't be paying Microsoft like Emperorlinux had to (using top-notch hardware with Windows already bundled on it).

1. Buy from a major distributor and pay the Windows tax, install Linux, and hope to hell that I can get Linux drivers for all the hardware
2. Buy a machine preloaded with Linux from somewhere like Emperor Linux where I'm still paying the Windows tax, but it's hidden
3. Buy a laptop with no operating system from a smaller company
4. Buy a PowerBook

Now granted, I do have options 3 and 4 which don't involve giving money to Microsoft. But until I have the choice to buy a Linux laptop from a major distributor with no Windows tax I don't think free market forces are working against the abuse of a monopoly.

Perhaps this thread presents an opportunity to the Slashdot editors to interview someone from some of the companies that are successful? Emperor Linux (linux laptops, many models, choice of distro) and of course Penguin Computing both spring to mind.

EmperorLinux sells the previous generation laptop, the Sharp Actius MM10,which they call the Meteor, with Linux preinstalled and optimized. I imagine they'll support the newer one soon. Note: they will install Linux on existing laptops if you purchased yours elsewhere.

Considering that EmperorLinux already supports the MM10, I suspect it won't be long at all before they sell the MM20.

-ez

has it occurred to youthat if they're still in their infancy after this many years, it might be because they really suck and no one wants to waste time making them or developing for them?

Get a small notebook instead: this one seems to be well-reviewed.

Most importantly, their customer service is excellent.

Emperor Linux


nuff said

They're not cheap, but check out http://www.emperorlinux.com/. Basically, they take Sony, Dell, and IBM laptops, partition it for you (linux only or dual-boot), install the OS, and support it.

The P2120 is available from Emperor Linux with Linux preinstalled for $1950.00. (No, I don't work for them.)

then it really means "Son of Heaven", another term for the emperor.

Yet the West has "Emperor Linux" brand laptops.

Or possibly the translation of "Godson" is more idiomatic, along the lines of "a boy I named" which is an important concept for example in Canela culture.

Qli sells new laptops with Linux preinstalled. Their prices range from one thousand to over two, for a fully loaded machine. They don't sell any that are tiny, like the Vaio, but there are other companies that do sell refurbished laptops and small form factor laptops with no Windows tax. I chose Qli because I was looking for a particular feature set, and because one of their installation options is Gentoo, which is my current favorite distribution.

I got an 1800MHz, 512MB (2GB max), 15.1" LCD, 20Gb, DVD/CDRW laptop for a shade over $1800. It has onboard ethernet, three USB (one of which is USB 2.0), onboard firewire, and a single CardBus slot. It was, practically, the perfect configuration I was looking for; the price was reasonable, and (as I said) they offered Gentoo as an install option.

My experience with Qli has been good. I agreed that they would install Gentoo 1.4, which is technically still beta, and this was Qli's first 1.4 laptop, so I had to do some work after the machine arrived to get it fully configured. I would expect that if you chose Gentoo 1.2, Mandrake, or Redhat, it would arrive fully configured. Qli provides a large number of installation options, and money you pay for the distribution of your choice (which varies) goes to the distribution.

The best thing about Qli, IME, was the customer service. The staff are extremely knowledgable and helpful, and are good about responding to support requests. They have a good understanding of kernel configurations, from which kernel modules are required to support which features to various configuration options.

I'm also very happy with the hardware. Although it isn't yet supported by Linux, I was pleasantly surprised that the laptop came with an unadvertised MMC/SD slot.

There are a couple of hangups with my particular hardware, but none of it is Qli's fault. The laptop is entirely ACPI, and ACPI support in Linux is immature. Consequently, I can't suspend the laptop (!) -- yet. OpenGL is proved to be a bear to get working, but this is due to my choice of distributions; apparently, Redhat on this laptop has full accellerated GL support out of the box. There is an onboard WinModem, but we know about those.

In summary, I can recommend Qli. You need to evaluate your own requirements, and then send them an email before you buy. They'll give you status reports on various configurations and recommend a system for you.

[Disclaimer] I do not work for Qli, and I don't receive any compensation for recommending them. My only relationship with Qli is that I've recently purchased a laptop from them.

Qli sells new laptops with Linux preinstalled. Their prices range from one thousand to over two, for a fully loaded machine. They don't sell any that are tiny, like the Vaio, but there are other companies that do sell refurbished laptops and small form factor laptops with no Windows tax. I chose Qli because I was looking for a particular feature set, and because one of their installation options is Gentoo, which is my current favorite distribution.

I got an 1800MHz, 512MB (2GB max), 15.1" LCD, 20Gb, DVD/CDRW laptop for a shade over $1800. It has onboard ethernet, three USB (one of which is USB 2.0), onboard firewire, and a single CardBus slot. It was, practically, the perfect configuration I was looking for; the price was reasonable, and (as I said) they offered Gentoo as an install option.

My experience with Qli has been good. I agreed that they would install Gentoo 1.4, which is technically still beta, and this was Qli's first 1.4 laptop, so I had to do some work after the machine arrived to get it fully configured. I would expect that if you chose Gentoo 1.2, Mandrake, or Redhat, it would arrive fully configured. Qli provides a large number of installation options, and money you pay for the distribution of your choice (which varies) goes to the distribution.

The best thing about Qli, IME, was the customer service. The staff are extremely knowledgable and helpful, and are good about responding to support requests. They have a good understanding of kernel configurations, from which kernel modules are required to support which features to various configuration options.

I'm also very happy with the hardware. Although it isn't yet supported by Linux, I was pleasantly surprised that the laptop came with an unadvertised MMC/SD slot.

There are a couple of hangups with my particular hardware, but none of it is Qli's fault. The laptop is entirely ACPI, and ACPI support in Linux is immature. Consequently, I can't suspend the laptop (!) -- yet. OpenGL is proved to be a bear to get working, but this is due to my choice of distributions; apparently, Redhat on this laptop has full accellerated GL support out of the box. There is an onboard WinModem, but we know about those.

In summary, I can recommend Qli. You need to evaluate your own requirements, and then send them an email before you buy. They'll give you status reports on various configurations and recommend a system for you.

[Disclaimer] I do not work for Qli, and I don't receive any compensation for recommending them. My only relationship with Qli is that I've recently purchased a laptop from them.

So far I've found iDot Computers, who will sell laptops with no OS installed. Unfortunately, their lightest, smallest offering is a hefty 2.8kg brick, 3cm bigger than the iBook in width and depth. What I really want is something comparable to a Toshiba Libretto or Sony VAIO R505--except that neither of those companies want to sell me a machine without Windows.

I'm sure plenty of Slashdot readers have faced the same problem--what's the solution?"

You're right. As this page points out, their machines come with WinXP Home Edition from the OEM. They just happen to blow it away and ensure that all of the hardware works very well with Linux, and your choice of distro is installed for you out of the box. They also provide a year of tech support, hence the markup.

Note: I have no problem with Emporer Linux's business model, and wish them success. However, I don't think they'll meet the submitter's requirement to never pay for Windows.

If that's not a fuck job, I don't know what is. I mean, the evidence here clearly supports that A) when you buy an EmperorLinux laptop, you are clearly still paying the Microsoft tax - they are just wiping Windows XP off of it (or you can still get it dual boot if you want it as such). And B) you are paying a shit price. The worst retail price online I found for the VX-89 was around 1700 dollars. So why not just suck it up and accept that the MS tax is unavoidable for laptops, and buy a decent laptop you like?

I understand the idea of voting with your dollars, but it doesn't get through to the shitheads at Sony corporate since they are still shipping a Vaio with Windows license to some schlocky overpriced "Linux" reseller. Or find a source of laptops that truly doesn't include the MS tax (they do exist, but I don't know of any super lightweight ones).

• Must have USB - Two USB ports
• and Firewire - One FireWire port
• built-in ethernet - Internal 10/100 Mbps
• ethernet
• and 802.11b support - Internal 802.11b 11Mbps wireless
• Small is important - Tiny: 10.6"x7"x1.59"
• lightweight is important - 2.8 - 3.4 pounds
• long battery life is important - 3 hour Li-Ion battery
• screen size so long as it can do 800x600 - 1280x768x24bpp w/ ATI 3D Rage graphics
• I will not purchase Windows! - EmperorLinux, Slackware, or Mandrake

You might contact a Micron PC sales rep and see if they'll provide a laptop with a version of Linux installed. If I remember correctly, I was able to arrange such a deal for a client... I don't see any option on their website so I might just be crazy :)

You might also take a look at Los Alamos Computers. They aren't as light as you want, but they might be an option.

QLI is also an option, but weight is an issue again.

Finally, Emperor Linux has some very light looking machines :) They are as light as 2 lbs, but you'll have to sacrifice a little speed. (2lbs is around 1 kg..)

Good luck.. I don't have any experience with any of these companies except for Micron PC.. You might do a quick search on google next time...

1.) MS Windows installed (dual boot), in which case I pay Bill Gates

2.) No MS Windows, in which case I pay Bill Gates.

The Vendor told me he was NOT able to obtain ANY laptops without MS on them, so had to pass the MS tax on to me, with the understanding that maybe somewhere somehow I might get a refund; it happened once but don't get your hopes up. So if anybody has had success with refunds from buying VAIO's please let me know. Also if there is any Refund Day protests in the Wash. DC area please let me know.

P.S. To the people in this discussion who say "vote with your dollars!": Please check here to see the winner of your proposed election.

chris{AT}dtm.ciw.edu

Emperor Linux.

After 1 year I'll say this:

I really like the long life, I get a total of ~8 hours of use between rechargings, with my spare double strength battery. (Ideal for 14 hour flights to Oz & other plane or outdoors trips I take). I think other laptops find this hard to beat.

I also like the size. I put in in the outer pouch of my backpack, don't even notice its there. Weight is 1 kilogram, 2.2 lb.

I like the pictures, but I have to admit it doesn't compete with a modern digital camera. Another downside is: If you see something cool, it takes a few minutes to boot up & you might have missed it already. :-(

Some of my photos can be found here: montage1 montage2 full list

Mine is 667 Mhz (down to ~300 Mhz when "crusoe" is invoked), but that's fine for Netscape, LaTeX, emacs, xboard, civ, etc. No CD. Ethernet is all I need. I've experimented with video (.avi file format, haven't used sound but it can be done) It looks good as long as the smaller size frames are used. With the larger frames it looks slow. All in all, I'm very happy with it & glad I bought it.

The only other thing I have to ask is how easy is it to get linux on that thing without a Sony CDROM Drive.

I'm not sure what you're asking, but if you want one preinstalled so you don't have to worry about getting the more obscure hardware working and so forth just talk to the folks at Emperor Linux - they have a similar picturebook as a standard offer, the Kiwi, and they're happy to do special orders if that's not exactly what you want.

If you just mean how to install it yourself without using a CD, most distros support net installation...

The only other thing I have to ask is how easy is it to get linux on that thing without a Sony CDROM Drive.

I'm not sure what you're asking, but if you want one preinstalled so you don't have to worry about getting the more obscure hardware working and so forth just talk to the folks at Emperor Linux - they have a similar picturebook as a standard offer, the Kiwi, and they're happy to do special orders if that's not exactly what you want.

If you just mean how to install it yourself without using a CD, most distros support net installation...

on my Linux laptop. Hardware support isn't all that great for my laptop, but it's manageable.

Let someone else deal with the pain of laptop installation - you can buy pre-loaded Linux laptops from EmperorLinux. I'm typing this on a Sony Vaio w/ RH 7.2 that I bought from them. IMHO, it's worth the extra cost.

Nope, because the author acknowledges that the prices are too high. He could have pointed you to transmetazone, but not all of those machines are available, e.g. the Fujitsu Biblio Loox T5. And apparently the author only uses Windows, because otherwise he would have told you that you can buy from Dynamism with no OS. BTW if you want to pay for small and use Linux, see Emperor.

Good subnotebooks are hard to find in the US. Do your local electronics superstores carry a broad array of truly portable computers? Mine don't. It's pretty sad when the ibook is among the best options for a notebook (not that I'm dissing the ibook--it's a good notebook-- but it does weigh 5lbs.). Anybody looking for smaller machines has come accross Dynamism, so I don't think the author is promoting them unduly.

ASA and Emperor Linux also sell preloaded Linux laptops. I bought a used laptop I knew would be supported but I'd really like there to be Linux options for the latest models.

Who cares? Linux has never been officially supported on my laptop, a Powerbook G3. But Mandrake 8 still runs better on it than the OS with which the laptop came.

If you need an officially supported Linux laptop, there are places to get one.

Emperor Linux sells a wide range of laptops preloaded with Linux; I don't have any direct experience with them, but it appears that they make a point of getting everything working under Linux.

They did get the camera in that Sony VAIO ultralite working, though, so they seem okay.

You can get Slackware (or Red Hat or Mandrake) pre-installed on a few models from http://www.emperorlinux.com/

Chuck

The first person to have Crusoe portables stateside, as far as I know, is Emperor Linux. I've never had anything but excellent experience in dealing with them.

this is plain BS. you have plenty of choices; you can build your own computer (that you didn't want to is not Dell's fault) or buy one of those white-box deals -- I picked a whitebox up from ebay for 400$ (p3@733hz) for a relative and the first thing i did was install Win98SE (cos that's what he wanted) and may eventually put XP on it (again, if he wants it.) Most people want Windows and will only be too happy if the copy they get with their new computer is XP ("ooh that's the one with all the commercials about it!" they'll say). Is it inferior to linux? in most technical ways, yes. As a practical matter, though, windows has won the desktop irrevocably. But that's not the point, the point is that you can get whiteboxes with no OS installed from resellers -- if you insist you want support and warranty and complete service, including a tech to come to you house and hit the "any" key for you, you'll have to pay and you'll probably have to buy from a company that sells windows pre-installed. The reason for this is simple: for a high level of support, you have to have lots of money, to make lots of money, you need to sell lots of computers; linux is a niche market and while nice, it isn't going to upset the MS monopoly anytime soon.

Of course you can remove the stickers and crack open the case; it'll invalidate the warranty, but you can do it. Dell lists that because they don't want to have to cover a box (on warranty) that's been cracked open and had cards pried off or fried by some Clueless Consumer(tm) in some way.

As for non-Windows laptops, check out these guys. They'll put redhat, slackware, mandrake or suse and are promising debian RSN pre-installed. They're not cheap, but then good laptops never are.

www.emperorlinux.com laptops with linux

About 3-6 months ago I went looking for notebooks with 1600x1200 screens (and built-in CD-RW drives) and after noticing that Dell had em, I checked to find out who else did. HP, Compaq, Gateway, and Sony didn't, but IBM (and Dell) did.

Check out the Dell Inspiron 8100 (also sold with Linux on it through Emporer Linux.) And IBM has a somewhat more expensive ThinkPad A Series A22p.

While the font size is small, it is configurable and I appreciate the greater screen real estate.

--LP

--LP

1. If you're willing to get a year-old machine, almost any distribution will support almost all the features on any Sony, IBM, or Dell. Specifically we have had good luck with all IBM ThinkPads, Dell Inspirons, and Sony Vaios.
2. The best machine for the ultimate power user is unquestionably the Dell Inspiron 8000. The 1600x1200 display works perfectly in X4. Many of our university astronomer customers opt for this system. For a powerful machine that you can port around daily, the IBM ThinkPad T20 series is expensive, but very nice. Its 1400x1050 display works perfectly in Linux. Both of these machines have an Intel eepro100 ethernet which works perfectly in Linux. They both have the Lucent winmodem which can also be made to work in Linux. They both have CDRWs which will burn CDs in Linux.
3. By far our most popular machines are the Sony Z505 and R505 machines which weigh 3.75 pounds and are still very fully featured. APM can be a problem with these systems, but X runs at 1024x768, the USB floppies work, the memory sticks work, and they also have the internal eepro ethernet. Their winmodem is worthless in Linux.
4. Of extreme popularity lately has been the Transmeta Crusoe chipped Sony PictureBook (C1VN/C1VP). It weighs just over two pounds and also runs Linux very well. The camera works. Due to its small size, it does not have internal ethernet, serial or parallel ports.

Kernel: linux-2.4.7 + 2.4.8-pre-3 + kerneli patch (kernel.org)
Sound: alsa-0.9.0beta5 (www.alsa-project.org)
PCMCIA: pcmcia-cs-3.1.27 (www.pcmcia-cs.sourceforge.org)

My personal machine upon which I have done all of my development work for the past year is the IBM T21. The person who does all of our web and Perl development uses the small C1VN. My wife, who has to carry her computer in a backpack all over downtown Atlanta, uses the Z505.

Just as a shameless plug (I bought one of their smaller boxen, the BlackPerl Z), the Emperor Linux Rhino (aka Dell Inspiron with a custom Linux install) is a full gigglehertz PIII platform, with a PAIR of optical drives (one can be a burner!), built-in 10/100 Ethernet, up to 512mb RAM, up to 48gb of disk, sound, and a 15" screen if you're tired of staring at a CRT all day. Yeah, it's a pig, and expensive, but it'll do everything you'd need it to and be quiet about it. And you can take it with you.

I can second the recommendation on the PC Power and cooling stuff, too, if you're not in the mood to buy a new computer; (chief geek over at Linux Journal) Dan Wilder's response to them was, and I quote, "[these are] built like a brick shithouse!"

Good luck...
warpeightbot

is that Emperor Linux
http://www.emperorlinux.com/
has been offering Sony's 2 lb. Crusoe machine in a similar configuration for quite some time now...

http://www.EmperorLinux.com/kiwi.html

Damn that's a cute little computer!

Just wondering, aren't there Infrared/Microwave Wireless systems also, eg like the way Palm Pilots talk to each other. The article only mentions radio. Can I assume that IR wireless won't work as well here simply because radio waves diffract around large objects better?? Or can IR based wireless devices be use here as well? And what of these? Can they be used for tapping into publicly available networks also? Thanks.

My Emperor BlackPerl Z (a Vaio 505TR with a custom install of Red Hat 6.2) is slightly smaller than the US-standard letter paper my resume is printed on, and about an inch thick. Weighs about five pounds with the battery on it. Six or seven when you add power supply, port replicator, minimouse (I *hate* glidepads), and floppy drive. No CD, but with 100bT ethernet in the PCMCIA port, and a 6GB HDD (the new ones come with 12), who needs a CD? If you really want one, you can get either a PC-card one (the preferable solution) or a parallel port backpacker (if you HAVE to use 'net and CD at the same time).

Sony is also selling a palmtop Vaio with a 400MhZ Pentium III or (coming RSN) a 600 MhZ Crusoe... it's about the size of a Disney videotape case, similarly light, with a 1024x480 display and full-size keyboard. Surely that will fit in the tailbag of your Hawg or rice burner. Yeah, they're a little pricey, but they're damn nice boxen. I recommend them if lightness or size takes precedent over Dell's vaunted customer service... which it often does, like our friend the motorcyclist.

http://www.emperorlinux.com/ [shameless plug from a very satisfied user] if you're a penguinhead... if not, check your local CompUniverse...

--
Intelligence is the ability to avoid doing work, yet get the work done.
-- Linus Torvalds

I'm with you on this - I want my sub-notebook, but I want it running *nix, I could care less about windoze.

As I understand it, the crusoe 3k series is fully 32bit. It doesn't work well with Win9x because of all the legacy 16 bit code that survives in that line of software. The 5k series has extra hardware to handle the 16bit code, making it more complicated and expensive. Bad news is that all the notebooks are using the 5ks, because they generally ship with win9x (ME in this case, same junk.) These chips should run *nix fine - they just have extra stuff that isn't needed for any true 32 bit OS.

This is why things like the AOL device are Good Things [TM] - if those things take off production on the 3k series should ramp up, and the speeds should improve, and that could conceivably lead to 3k based notebooks with better cost/performance ratios for those of us that don't need 16bit code support. I know, I'm dreaming ;^), but without the 3k based appliances this is impossible - with them it's merely improbable. The 3k may be objectively less expensive in every way, but economies of scale will destroy that advantage if they can't sell them in quantity.

I spent about half an hour a couple days ago looking for notebook vendors that are Linux-friendly - Emperor Linux sells a variety of laptop/notebook sized 'puters, with optimised Linux install (choice of Redhat Slack or Debian IIRC, custom kernel and X install, all hardware set up and working) and they have the Sony/Crusoe model available. Anyone know anyone else doing this?

I and the rest of the crew of Emperor Linux sang the DeCSS source code at the Friday night Karaoke party at ALS. ;-)

you might take a look at www.EmperorLinux.com. We sell fully pre-configured Linux laptops and notebooks. Sony, Toshiba, IBM(soon). Some of our stuff includes a 3.5 pound P-II-400 or a P-III-500 with 15'' LCD. Also, if you don't see a system you like, we do custom orders all the time.

Check the vendors' list at linux.org, and Alt-F for laptops. There are a couple of them, and not only in US: Hong, Malaysia, US (1, 2, 3).