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If it did you would have a point, but immigrants contribute to the economy in average, so it doesn't, and you don't.

Illegal immigrants - what is under discussion with the wall - cost $54 billion to $115 billion per year. Legal immigrants are invited guests; illegal immigrants are unwanted squatters.

I don't ask the workers at McDonald's how to manage my health, and I don't ask border guards how to address immigration. That's above their pay grade.

Ahh - you DO know better than those who do their job - you are the pointy-haired boss! Do you expect the McDonald's workers to know how to take an order and wrap a cheeseburger better than you? Because that's what we're talking about. The people who are responsible for catching illegal immigrants say "I need this tool to do my job better". You're like the engineer who's never worked on a production line, coming and telling a production line worker they do not need a screwdriver to install those screws, they can just use their fingers or a wrench.

So why do you lock your doors? Why don't you let anyone into your house, whoever wants to come inside and just stay and let you pay for their needs?

Yes, illegal immigration costs money. Provably so. I guess if you think otherwise, you'll willingly let anyone who desires to move in with you for free, you can feed, clothe, educate, protect, and provide healthcare for them, and their services as an occasional maid or cook would more than offset the costs?

First we need to build the wall. The cost alone would pay for itself in short order. The money saved from it thereafter will provide better coverage for US citizens.

http://www.fairus.org/press-re...

Citations:

https://www.washingtonpost.com... google answer using search: total immigrant population https://www.fairus.org/issue/s...

All they require in CA is an ID or driver's license and in CA they automatically register anyone who gets a driver's license and they allow illegals to get driver's licenses...put two and two together and its not hard to see why HRC won CA by over 3 million votes in a state with millions of illegals.

Of course all the left singing the praises of illegals with sanctuary cities and calls for amnesty ignores the fact that it costs CA taxpayers 25 billion every single year in public services and benefits to illegals which comes to nearly $2400 out of the pocket of every tax payer in CA every year.

This notion couldn't be more incorrect. Illegal immigrant supporters are like gamblers who only tell you about how much they won, not their losses. To be honest if a person has half a brain they could reason that the costs *have* to exceed what minimal sales tax and fake social security number taxes illegals pay. Pro immigrant people ignore the costs of immigrant children, both those born here as "citizens" as well as those who are not citizens. Here is a great paper that lays out the costs as well as the receipts. For California alone we're in the hole by $8.8 Billion (citation below). Texas lost around $10.8 Billion (citation below). Add in the other states and we're probably over $40 billion. Note that both papers show that some taxes were received but they were woefully short of the costs. This doesn't count the human toll as illegal immigrant drunk drivers kill more people than the 9/11 terrorists *every year* (citation below). 9/11 killed 2,996 but illegals kill around 3,000 a year with car drunk/careless driving and another 2,000 by crime. Citations: California costs: http://www.fairus.org/site/doc... Texas costs: http://www.fairus.org/DocServe... Illegal immigrant caused deaths: http://unlicensedtokill.org/

This notion couldn't be more incorrect. Illegal immigrant supporters are like gamblers who only tell you about how much they won, not their losses. To be honest if a person has half a brain they could reason that the costs *have* to exceed what minimal sales tax and fake social security number taxes illegals pay. Pro immigrant people ignore the costs of immigrant children, both those born here as "citizens" as well as those who are not citizens. Here is a great paper that lays out the costs as well as the receipts. For California alone we're in the hole by $8.8 Billion (citation below). Texas lost around $10.8 Billion (citation below). Add in the other states and we're probably over $40 billion. Note that both papers show that some taxes were received but they were woefully short of the costs. This doesn't count the human toll as illegal immigrant drunk drivers kill more people than the 9/11 terrorists *every year* (citation below). 9/11 killed 2,996 but illegals kill around 3,000 a year with car drunk/careless driving and another 2,000 by crime. Citations: California costs: http://www.fairus.org/site/doc... Texas costs: http://www.fairus.org/DocServe... Illegal immigrant caused deaths: http://unlicensedtokill.org/

You paranoid, authoritarian piece of shit.

You seem to be pretty butthurt. Maybe while you're flailing around you can wake up from your hugbox nightmare and realize that the current government administration is lying to you so damn hard that if makes realpolitik seem like a nice sunny sunday afternoon.

Yes, I also can't figure out why preventing illegal immigration to save literally billions per year is a good idea.

What does building a wall have to do with preventing illegal immigration? Most illegal immigrants enter the country legally, you know.

If you want to deter illegal immigration there's a much easier and cheaper way: throw Americans who employ illegal immigrants in jail. To make that even easier and cheaper, give a green card to any illegal immigrant who turns in his/her employer. Note that there are various ways in which this doesn't work perfectly, but it's a 95%-effective solution which costs very little, as opposed to an outrageously-expensive 30%-effective solution.

Yes, I also can't figure out why preventing illegal immigration to save literally billions per year is a good idea.

And that's just for California.

Who'd've thought that people don't want political correctness, extra crime, migrant welfare, and a change of culture?

the majority of crime is associated with illegal aliens.

[Citation Needed]

From what I found, the majority of inmates in Arizona (90%), are not illegal immigrants. Nationwide, the number is closer to 95% non-illegals. Obviously the number of crimes committed does not necessarily equate to prison terms: aliens may be deported instead of put in prison, just by being here they are technically committing a crime, and its been shown that there is a strong correlation between wealth and being found "not guilty," but it definitely disputes your claim.

Now, there were plenty of "statistics" out there that were quite.. interesting. Most of them probably not worth the paper they were printed on. The information I'm listing is the least obviously biased study I could find from a quick search on Bing, although it still comes from an anti-immigration group.

http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer/crimestudy.pdf?docID=2321

By in large, I doubt they live alone, rather they share the burden. Also, $5/hr isn't unreasonable...

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecentersdfe9

Hmmmm.

This?

How about this?

Or this?

Every illegal immigrant may not commit every singly offense against the US, but a large number are committing crimes and offenses and causing problems.

And that doesn't address the various scams they run, like insurance fraud. (also here or here or here).

Please note: that bls statistic only refers to the demand side of the equation. To see the whole picture, you also have to consider the supply side. India has 4X the US population, and India alone is cranking out 495,000 BSCS graduates every year.

Furthermore, according the BLS:

"As with other information technology jobs, outsourcing of software development to other countries may temper somewhat employment growth of computer software engineers. Firms may look to cut costs by shifting operations to foreign countries with lower prevailing wages and highly educated workers."

Also, I have to wonder where the BLS gets it's information:

"According to Robert Half Technology, starting salaries for software engineers in software development ranged from $66,500 to $99,750 in 2007. For network engineers, starting salaries ranged from $65,750 to $90,250."

Robert Half! Asking Robert Half if it's a good time to go into IT is like asking Century 21 if it's a good to sell your home.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos267.htm

Here are some more numbers:

"H-1B Visa Numbers: No Relationship with Economic Need"

According to a new study from the Center for Immigration Studies: the number of H-1B visas approved in the computers and engineering fields greatly exceeds any reasonable number reflected by economic demand.

http://www.cis.org/node/222

"High Tech Industry Laying Off American Workers While Seeking Huge Increase in Guest Workers"

"Currently, the Department of Labor estimates that there are about 656,000 unemployed IT workers in the U.S. In addition, the slowing economy has led to a loss of jobs across the board including in IT. The Denver-based Rocky Mountain News reports that Colorado -- the state with the third highest concentration of IT workers -- has lost 47,200 technology jobs since 2001."

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_may08nl02

Gains in US high tech employment more than offset by off-shore worker visas

"According to the AeA Cyberstates yearly reports, "High Tech" employment experienced job losses of 945,000 in the 2001 recession. Since this drop in employment, the "High Tech" sector has recovered about 300,000 jobs, but during the period in question, a probable 669,681 H-1B and L-1 computer-related workers were added to the workforce."

http://tinyurl.com/3pj2c3

IT job security plummets five times faster than nationwide average

"Job security for IT professionals plummeted more than 10% from January to February of this year, far surpassing the average job security declines seen nationwide in a rigorous analysis of U.S. employment patterns."

http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/edu/2008/033108ed1.html

Studies Indicate IT Labor Shortage is a Myth

"These studies done at Duke aren't alone in their assessment that there is in fact no skills shortage. They're backed up by other studies conducted by RAND Corporation, The Urban Institute and Stanford University, among others, all of which settle upon the same conclusion: There is no shortage of educated IT workers."

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1081923#PaperDownload

This according to a well researched article at baselinemag.com:

http://tinyurl.com/yoy2rw

So, I'm curious, you say that you foresee the end of the US IT job market. Why?

Aggressive off-shoring. Jobs are being sent off-shore like mad, and off-shore workers are being brought in to do whatever jobs are remaining.

There will still be some IT jobs in the USA, of course. Some US citizens will still be hired. But the supply/demand ratio will make IT about the worst field you can enter.

What is happening to IT now is something like what happened to auto and steal workers in the 1980s. Except the assembly line workers did have to invest in specialized training, or fight to get specialized experience.

Don't take my word for it, read the headlines:

High Tech Industry Laying Off American Workers While Seeking Huge Increase in Guest Workers
> "Currently, the Department of Labor estimates that there are about 656,000 unemployed IT workers in the U.S. In addition, the slowing economy has led to a loss of jobs across the board including in IT. The Denver-based Rocky Mountain News reports that Colorado -- the state with the third highest concentration of IT workers -- has lost 47,200 technology jobs since 2001."

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_may08nl02

Gains in US high tech employment more than offset by off-shore worker visas"
> "According to the AeA Cyberstates yearly reports, "High Tech" employment experienced job losses of 945,000 in the 2001 recession. Since this drop in employment, the "High Tech" sector has recovered about 300,000 jobs, but during the period in question, a probable 669,681 H-1B and L-1 computer-related workers were added to the workforce."

http://tinyurl.com/3pj2c3

IT job security plummets five times faster than nationwide average
> "Job security for IT professionals plummeted more than 10% from January to February of this year, far surpassing the average job security declines seen nationwide in a rigorous analysis of U.S. employment patterns."

http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/edu/2008/033108ed1.html

Take a look at the forums on dice - they are filled with people who have a degree, but can not get a job. Here are some examples:

"I graduated with a B.S. in Computer Science from New Jersey Institute of Technology (NJIT) back in January 2005. After I graduated, I was unable to find a job . . . so in order to pay bills and student loans, I had to get a temp job doing customer service, making $12 an hour"

http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?threadID=6562&tstart=0

"I have bachelors degree in computer science. I have 10yrs of experience in software and 5yrs in .net. But now i have been laid of and out of job for past 4 months."

http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?threadID=7151&tstart=0

"I am a cliche . . . I am 24 year old, B.Sc. Computer Science grad from an above average state school, and I'm unemployed."

http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?threadID=4896&start=0&tstart=0

"I graduated with a B.S in Computer Science last year May 2007. Though after applying to hundreds of places I've only gotten a handful of interviews and no IT job as of yet! All my other friends who majored in business or accounting managed to get jobs fairly easily."

http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?threadID=6875&tstart=0

"Soooo. I graduate May of 07, with a 3.3 and a BSIT but no experience in IT Security . . . And I am $#*7 out of luck"

This is political populism...

Were the 50's and 60's better? Racism, male chauvinist oinks, and the boys club mentality... Add on the lack of being able to fly easily, travel easily, or have any luxuries.

You know you can live like the 50's and 60's. I am serious here. Get rid of your cable subscription, your cell phone subscription, have a single car, and everything that you did not have in the 50's and 60's. And you can live quite well.

The problem we have is that you have all of these additional costs because you want them. For example one of the things I have done away with is a cellular phone subscription. Here in Europe people look quite strange at me. I just say, "hey I hardly use it and it saves me quite a bit of money."

The problem is not immigration. Look at the following website.

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_research05b5

The immigration levels at the time you talk so fondly of were per-capita higher than now.

The real problem is that due to globalization the West has to realize it is overpaid. The developing countries are just as smart and just as able, but paid less because they can be.

Heck, I have had to take a massive pay cut so that I can compete in the market place. But I take in stride as I have to.

So, if these individuals are going to be in the state anyway

There's your first problem. They should NOT be in the state anyway. And as for evidence, do a quick search. There are umpteen studies on the matter and government officials (like the ones in Texas) have even been caught trying to doctor data.

Start here and move forward.

Check that again and you'll find that three had overstayed their visas and were therefore in the country illegally. http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecentersc582

Thirteen of the terrorists had Florida driver's licenses or ID cards, seven had Virginia driver's licenses, at least two had California licenses and two had New Jersey driver's licenses. WHY? Why do we give licenses to foreigners to begin with? Are we suicidal?

In fact According to the March 28, 2002 Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Robert Thibadeau, director of Carnegie Mellon's Internet Security labratory, says that "the 19 terrorists on Sept. 11 were holding 63 state driver's licenses for identification."

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic _immigrationissuecentersc582/

A reduction in the flow of illegal immigrants means that the border patrol will be able to apprehend a higher percentage of border jumpers, thereby improving the chances of catching terrorists.

I already addressed this. True conservatives and Libertarians in the Republican party hate to waste any money where it's not necessary. Neo-conservatives and liberals both disdain the Border Patrol for their own reasons and would like to reduce their numbers even now. Without a high amount of illegal immigrants coming across, true conservatives would have no argument for maintaining the Border Patrol's numbers. A decrease in the amount of illegal immigration would result in a further decrease in the Border Patrol. Therefore, reducing the number of illegal immigrants would not necessarily increase the number of any terrorists coming across the border.

You: Are you saying we should make no attempt to stop terrorists at our borders? And would you prefer we made no effort to stem the tide of illegal immigration?
Me: My opinion on either of those matters doesn't change the facts. Examine the facts as they are.
You: I would love to. Unfortunately, you have given no indication as to what "facts" you are referring to.
Me: I don't see the how my overall opinion on terrorism or illegal immigration matters to this discussion. Will you only stop arguing if I say I agree with you? Or will you just not listen to what I have to say if I say I don't agree with you? Are you unable to focus on the facts? Can you actually discuss a topic in a non-partisan way?
You: I am not requesting more of your opinion, I am merely asking you to actually cite your sources... Oh, and I agree that your opinion does not matter =).

Actually, that is the first time you've asked me to cite my sources. Originally, you were more interested in my opinion, despite your final statement that my opinion doesn't matter.

Anyway, my main source for my statements have been the Federation for American Immigration Reform, a group formed primarily to stop illegal immigration. They were major backers of the Real ID act, presumably to stop terrorism. However, as an anti-illegal immigrant group, they are and always have been more concerned with the ability of the Real ID act to prevent illegal immigration.

A reduction in the flow of illegal immigrants means that the border patrol will be able to apprehend a higher percentage of border jumpers, thereby improving the chances of catching terrorists.

I already addressed this. True conservatives and Libertarians in the Republican party hate to waste any money where it's not necessary. Neo-conservatives and liberals both disdain the Border Patrol for their own reasons and would like to reduce their numbers even now. Without a high amount of illegal immigrants coming across, true conservatives would have no argument for maintaining the Border Patrol's numbers. A decrease in the amount of illegal immigration would result in a further decrease in the Border Patrol. Therefore, reducing the number of illegal immigrants would not necessarily increase the number of any terrorists coming across the border.

You: Are you saying we should make no attempt to stop terrorists at our borders? And would you prefer we made no effort to stem the tide of illegal immigration?
Me: My opinion on either of those matters doesn't change the facts. Examine the facts as they are.
You: I would love to. Unfortunately, you have given no indication as to what "facts" you are referring to.
Me: I don't see the how my overall opinion on terrorism or illegal immigration matters to this discussion. Will you only stop arguing if I say I agree with you? Or will you just not listen to what I have to say if I say I don't agree with you? Are you unable to focus on the facts? Can you actually discuss a topic in a non-partisan way?
You: I am not requesting more of your opinion, I am merely asking you to actually cite your sources... Oh, and I agree that your opinion does not matter =).

Actually, that is the first time you've asked me to cite my sources. Originally, you were more interested in my opinion, despite your final statement that my opinion doesn't matter.

Anyway, my main source for my statements have been the Federation for American Immigration Reform, a group formed primarily to stop illegal immigration. They were major backers of the Real ID act, presumably to stop terrorism. However, as an anti-illegal immigrant group, they are and always have been more concerned with the ability of the Real ID act to prevent illegal immigration.

Then the one loony who does vote will elect an extremist leader who will make irrational decisions affecting the whole world.

On the other hand you could all vote and get the same result.

Question: Why is it a federal crime for non-citizens to vote in any federal election, but those non-citizens can be taxed federally? Whatever happened to "No Taxation without Representation"?

While they certainly were illegal in the sense that they were terrorists, they weren't illegal immigrants. They all entered the country legally. Three of them had overstayed their visas, but the new system would not be likely to catch overstays until they attempted to leave (which of course they never planned to do).

Many of these people ... have actual jobs that put them on payrolls.

So far as "inforcing" (outdated) (read: ineffective -j) immigration laws - well, how exactly do you propose doing that?

Thanks, but I'd sooner toss my tax dollars into the street than to fund your racist propoganda.

A quick google search indicates that less than 100.000 of the 2 million US prisoners are illegal aliens, while to list a stunning example 4.8% of the overwhelmingly native population of black men are imprisoned by the government at any moment, with the number being 12.9% in the 25-29 age groupp.

Seriously, I feel bad. Imma gonna go write "I will not confuse four-letter acronyms" on the chalkboard one thousand times. I bet if Slashdot outsourced its comment writing to India, these types of horrible errors would never happen again.

There is solid, non-classified evidence of an al-Qaeda / Saudi Arabia link. Have a look at the nationalities of the 9-11 hijackers and where they obtained their visas. (15/19 were form Saudi Arabia.) link to article It's well known that Saudi money funds Islamic fundamentalist groups all across the Middle East.

Oh, and that Osama Bin Laden guy? Remind me again where he was from...

It's tempting to believe that because both Hussein and Bin Laden hate the US so much, they must consider themselves to be on the same side. Not the case at all --- there are more than two sides.

There is no reason to believe that an attack on Iraq will weaken al-Qaeda, and lots of reasons to suppose that it will strengthen the appeal of Islamic fundamentalism.

Meanwhile, employment of young black males is at an all time low. Coincidence? Probably not.

I like the 'taxes are taken out before they get paid' bit. Yeah right. Most of these guys get paid in cash at the end of the day and the employer writes it off as a non-workforce expense. The only taxes they pay directly are sales taxes and lottery tickets. So are you also saying that they never-ever go to the emergency room, or put their kids in public school or pressure states to give them in-state tuition. Of course, the Mexican government isn't just shoveling their problems on the US. No not at all. Of course, they don't have their own lobbying group with the same integrity as Operation Rainbow backing them with discrimination lawsuits if anyone tries to enforce the law.

We need them only for cheap labor. They only bring more poverty along with them because their own corrupt government doesn't give a shit. Maybe it would be a good thing for grocery prices to go up. Americans are too damn fat and maybe it would help provide jobs for those who can't find them (oh shit, that's right, welfare pays them to sit on their ass and breed...this would mean that they'd have to work!). Oh, and they won't become the equivalent of the Palestinians in the US. Nope, never.

WAKE THE FUCK UP! YOUR COUNTRY IS BEING INVADED IN SLOW MOTION!!!!!!

The same is true in the House, though to a lesser extent. Missouri and Michigan don't have the biggest populations (California, New York, Texas, Illinois, etc.), and yet those are the states where the chief Democratic leaders (Gephardt and Bonior) are from. The House is supposed to allocate influence and power according to population, and yet it is instead being allocated according to other factors such as seniority.

Every US Citizen should read the series of articles at fairus.org and their H1B focus area, as well as the excellent series of H1B news and links.

The amount of funding spread around to legislators, from rich, powerful IT firms, in return for passage of H1B workers is astounding. We can fully expect to see the numbers increase everytime the politicians are seeking to enlarge their war chests.

This is targeted immigration, implemented primarily to control the wage and status of US IT professionals. There is more than enough evidence to show that US high tech companies have padded their employment requirements and used those falsified statistics to support H1B. The H1B legislation is based on a huge lie.

Remember when H1B first came onto the scene? All the retraining, worker protections, studies on job loss that were guaranteed to happen? Well, most of that has been rolled back now, courtesy of the dishonorable David Dreier (R-CA) -- a recipient of HUGE donations from tech firms.

There were also dozens of ads for programmers in every major paper, as well as regular calls from headhunters. Well, all that's gone now, but the H1B just keeps getting increased. High Tech America is as hooked on H1B as your average smack addict, and congess just keeps feeding the monkey -- for a price.

One can't read about this and not be alarmed. My personal opinion is there should be limits on the number of people allowed in; once in, they become full citizens; and you can't discriminate against who gets in.

This way, we get some good programmers, auto mechanics, teachers, lawyers, politicians, airline pilots, doctors, lawyers -- a spread of people. And *they* don't have to worry about getting sent home.

Targeted immigration should be outlawed immediately -- there is more than enough evidence that is was based on falsified statistics, and is probably the most horrifying and clearly irrefutable example of just how corrupt the US Government is.

I think, when the truth really comes out in all this, there may be a class action lawsuit against the US on the behalf of American IT workers. Maybe even a huge settlement? Without H1B, I think I'd have made an extra 20-30 K for the last 4 years.

Let's see, $30K x 4 years x about 5 million programmers...that's about a $600 billion settlement or so. Congress, the clock is ticking. Stop passing laws based on lies while you can still get out cheap :-)

Every US Citizen should read the series of articles at fairus.org and their H1B focus area, as well as the excellent series of H1B news and links.

The amount of funding spread around to legislators, from rich, powerful IT firms, in return for passage of H1B workers is astounding. We can fully expect to see the numbers increase everytime the politicians are seeking to enlarge their war chests.

This is targeted immigration, implemented primarily to control the wage and status of US IT professionals. There is more than enough evidence to show that US high tech companies have padded their employment requirements and used those falsified statistics to support H1B. The H1B legislation is based on a huge lie.

Remember when H1B first came onto the scene? All the retraining, worker protections, studies on job loss that were guaranteed to happen? Well, most of that has been rolled back now, courtesy of the dishonorable David Dreier (R-CA) -- a recipient of HUGE donations from tech firms.

There were also dozens of ads for programmers in every major paper, as well as regular calls from headhunters. Well, all that's gone now, but the H1B just keeps getting increased. High Tech America is as hooked on H1B as your average smack addict, and congess just keeps feeding the monkey -- for a price.

One can't read about this and not be alarmed. My personal opinion is there should be limits on the number of people allowed in; once in, they become full citizens; and you can't discriminate against who gets in.

This way, we get some good programmers, auto mechanics, teachers, lawyers, politicians, airline pilots, doctors, lawyers -- a spread of people. And *they* don't have to worry about getting sent home.

Targeted immigration should be outlawed immediately -- there is more than enough evidence that is was based on falsified statistics, and is probably the most horrifying and clearly irrefutable example of just how corrupt the US Government is.

I think, when the truth really comes out in all this, there may be a class action lawsuit against the US on the behalf of American IT workers. Maybe even a huge settlement? Without H1B, I think I'd have made an extra 20-30 K for the last 4 years.

Let's see, $30K x 4 years x about 5 million programmers...that's about a $600 billion settlement or so. Congress, the clock is ticking. Stop passing laws based on lies while you can still get out cheap :-)

Every US Citizen should read the series of articles at fairus.org and their H1B focus area, as well as the excellent series of H1B news and links.

The amount of funding spread around to legislators, from rich, powerful IT firms, in return for passage of H1B workers is astounding. We can fully expect to see the numbers increase everytime the politicians are seeking to enlarge their war chests.

This is targeted immigration, implemented primarily to control the wage and status of US IT professionals. There is more than enough evidence to show that US high tech companies have padded their employment requirements and used those falsified statistics to support H1B. The H1B legislation is based on a huge lie.

Remember when H1B first came onto the scene? All the retraining, worker protections, studies on job loss that were guaranteed to happen? Well, most of that has been rolled back now, courtesy of the dishonorable David Dreier (R-CA) -- a recipient of HUGE donations from tech firms.

There were also dozens of ads for programmers in every major paper, as well as regular calls from headhunters. Well, all that's gone now, but the H1B just keeps getting increased. High Tech America is as hooked on H1B as your average smack addict, and congess just keeps feeding the monkey -- for a price.

One can't read about this and not be alarmed. My personal opinion is there should be limits on the number of people allowed in; once in, they become full citizens; and you can't discriminate against who gets in.

This way, we get some good programmers, auto mechanics, teachers, lawyers, politicians, airline pilots, doctors, lawyers -- a spread of people. And *they* don't have to worry about getting sent home.

Targeted immigration should be outlawed immediately -- there is more than enough evidence that is was based on falsified statistics, and is probably the most horrifying and clearly irrefutable example of just how corrupt the US Government is.

I think, when the truth really comes out in all this, there may be a class action lawsuit against the US on the behalf of American IT workers. Maybe even a huge settlement? Without H1B, I think I'd have made an extra 20-30 K for the last 4 years.

Let's see, $30K x 4 years x about 5 million programmers...that's about a $600 billion settlement or so. Congress, the clock is ticking. Stop passing laws based on lies while you can still get out cheap :-)

Every US Citizen should read the series of articles at fairus.org and their H1B focus area, as well as the excellent series of H1B news and links.

The amount of funding spread around to legislators, from rich, powerful IT firms, in return for passage of H1B workers is astounding. We can fully expect to see the numbers increase everytime the politicians are seeking to enlarge their war chests.

This is targeted immigration, implemented primarily to control the wage and status of US IT professionals. There is more than enough evidence to show that US high tech companies have padded their employment requirements and used those falsified statistics to support H1B. The H1B legislation is based on a huge lie.

Remember when H1B first came onto the scene? All the retraining, worker protections, studies on job loss that were guaranteed to happen? Well, most of that has been rolled back now, courtesy of the dishonorable David Dreier (R-CA) -- a recipient of HUGE donations from tech firms.

There were also dozens of ads for programmers in every major paper, as well as regular calls from headhunters. Well, all that's gone now, but the H1B just keeps getting increased. High Tech America is as hooked on H1B as your average smack addict, and congess just keeps feeding the monkey -- for a price.

One can't read about this and not be alarmed. My personal opinion is there should be limits on the number of people allowed in; once in, they become full citizens; and you can't discriminate against who gets in.

This way, we get some good programmers, auto mechanics, teachers, lawyers, politicians, airline pilots, doctors, lawyers -- a spread of people. And *they* don't have to worry about getting sent home.

Targeted immigration should be outlawed immediately -- there is more than enough evidence that is was based on falsified statistics, and is probably the most horrifying and clearly irrefutable example of just how corrupt the US Government is.

I think, when the truth really comes out in all this, there may be a class action lawsuit against the US on the behalf of American IT workers. Maybe even a huge settlement? Without H1B, I think I'd have made an extra 20-30 K for the last 4 years.

Let's see, $30K x 4 years x about 5 million programmers...that's about a $600 billion settlement or so. Congress, the clock is ticking. Stop passing laws based on lies while you can still get out cheap :-)

...and come back on a H1B visa.

Then hang out at websites like usavisanow

But stay the hell away from fairus, which outlines (in the "Stein Report") the various election year payoffs the American Senators are getting from Sun, Oracle, Microsoft, GE and IBM.

http://www.fairus.org/03205707.htm or the full text here:

http://www.visalaw.com/docs/IIIRA.html

You are right though, from what I understand, it should be illegal to use the SSN outside of "tax purposes" but I think there are plenty of current violations or at least obvious bending of the rules.