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National Parks Face Years of Damage From Government Shutdown (nationalgeographic.com)
When the government eventually reopens, park experts warn reversing damage won't be as easy as throwing out the trash. From a report: National parks are America's public lands, but right now they're America's trashcans. That's because the U.S. federal government, embattled over funding for a border wall, has shut down, leaving national parks open and largely unattended. Since the shutdown began, brimming trashcans, overflowing toilets, and trespassing has been reported at many parks locations. "Never before have I seen the federal government tempt fate in national parks the way we are today," says Diane Regas, president of the Trust for Public Land. "It's not about what has happened already. It's about what could happen if you don't have the appropriate staffing."
According to the National Parks Conservation Association (NPCA), staffing varies by park, but some 16,000 parks service employees are furloughed, leaving a small number active for policing and security. The government shut down three times in 2018, but only three days last January and less than a day that following February. As of Friday, the government had been partially shut down for 13 days. Further reading: Government Shutdown is Putting a Damper on Science in Seattle and Elsewhere.
According to the National Parks Conservation Association (NPCA), staffing varies by park, but some 16,000 parks service employees are furloughed, leaving a small number active for policing and security. The government shut down three times in 2018, but only three days last January and less than a day that following February. As of Friday, the government had been partially shut down for 13 days. Further reading: Government Shutdown is Putting a Damper on Science in Seattle and Elsewhere.
I'd expect something like this out of a third-world nation, not a world-leader.
How quickly you've fallen from your world power high in the mid 1970s.
SAD. But a few Boomers got rich so FUCK YEAH!!!
It's just a fucking bunch of fucking squirrels up the fucking trees with them fucking nuts. And a lot of furry animals screwing around, killing each other and shitting all over the place. It's a fucking zoo. Fuck them.
Like Roosevelt did, create a new CCC, or you could use community service sentences to do the work.
If there are arrests for trespassing... sentence them to work in the parks.
Fund the wall :^)
The horror!!!
;)
The National Parks have not be fully staffed for 14 days with more coming. The damage will last for generations!
from the article
Lamfrom says the full scale of the problem is yet to be determined but clean up timelines will range in length. "Some [efforts] will take weeks or months. Some will last generations. Some may not be able to be fixed."
Just my 2 cents
These Mexicans and their whole not funding the wall and everything. So disappointed in them.
I'm just glad the American people don't have to fund it. 'Cos of what Trump said!
#proudToBeAnAmerican!
(and he mumbled "... suckerz!" but few heard it clearly)
BUILT! THE! WALL!! ALREADY! Go home, Dems. No one need you nomore.
or filled with "trespassers" ? aka TAX PAYERS, you know, the criminal proletariat scourge who normally fund the upkeep when the lazy park staff hasn't gone AWOL,
The historic tower in the Trump International Hotel in Washington DC is a national landmark. It's under the control of the park service. There are still National Park Rangers there keeping the tower open. Total coincidence they found money to do that, based no doubt on a dispassionate assessment of needs.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Since the National Park service changed their policies since 2013's shut down, they've been tracked pretty heavily throughout the news cycle. It's one of the bigger and more understandable parts of the shutdown facing the public, especially during the holidays.
They've covered the parks staying open, the lack of maintenance, volunteers cleaning Joshua Tree, Joshua Tree getting overwhelmed and shut down, Yellowstone's access roads closing (although not technically the park) because of snow, the deaths that have occurred in the various National Parks, etc.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Seems rather fitting that they're filling up garbage and literal shit under Trump's watch. It's just one more mess that will have to be cleaned up in the wake of this idiotic administration.
Personally, I lost all interest in national parks when the powers that be decided they can't come to some compromise between the people who want to fly photography drones and the people who are annoyed by the buzzing noise, so they just banned drones. I could give two shits and a fuck about walking around and enjoying "nature", I just wanted to photograph something other than the dumpster behind Walmart, but no... Stupid lawmakers.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
Unstaffed national parks are great. I brought a chainsaw and now I have the makings of a dozen giant redwood tables. It would have cost more than my house to buy them from a legit wood shop.
Thanks to Trump, national parks are free of job killing regulations being enforced by the fascist fat car park rangers. I'll go out this week and get a giant slab of oak with the flatbed too.
Fun for the kids too, they can use the four wheelers and carve donuts on the worthless alpine prairie moss instead of gunking up the engine like when they do it on the dunes.
Chop all the trees down and make chop sticks. Sell them to the chinese. Trade imbalance fixed. Simple.
Glad to hear no one visits any of the parks with skyfields anymore, will make holidays much better..... ph you didn't realise many of the ski fields are in national parks too doofus?
If you care about the environment and live nearby wouldn't you step up as a citizen and volunteer to spend some time fixing the problem?
No, it would be the park visitors that dont care about the environment, If you are visiting a park full well knowing the usual services are not available you would pack your trash back out with you rather then just dump it on the overflowing trashcan.
About the only thing that might be out of a visitors control is restroom facilities. If the facilities are not locked up, then any horrible condition they might be in is once again the cause of shitty visitors not doing their part to keep them as usable as possible with limited maintenance. helping to keep them usable could literally be as simple as people bringing their own roll of TP from home. Had every visitor brought their own roll and left it in a restroom there would probably be more rolls of TP than they could use in those restrooms for the next month.
When someone breaks into your house to throw a squatter party, is your house left unattended or filled with trespassers? Idiot.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
Seriously, get this shit off the front page.
You could have done with a bit more attention from the government, in the form of decent schooling. Then you could have learned how to spell "alarmist". And "visit". You'd also have learned that we don't capitalise "wintertime".
Illiterate pillock.
The narrative is the same on both sides. The shutdown is bad and it's the other side's fault.
Personally I don't care, I don't work for the gov't and I don't visit state parks.
Saving a bit of money might be just the thing after the billionaire tax breaks and $12B farmer bailout.
If you sold them, the government would have more money.
Why are you in favour of giving the government more money, given your views, dumbfuck?
If there are arrests for trespassing... sentence them to work in the parks.
Much of the damage is from illegal pot grows, there are much better things to charge these folks with than trespassing.
Well a lot of the existing border fencing does need repairs/upgrades so it would be an infrastructure project.
Think you just need to build the wall around a certain golf course in Miami and the crybaby will be happy and open the gov again.
You do realize that "superhero" is the US translation/equivalent for "Ãoebersoldat", as used by Nazi propaganda, right?
And that those movies are nothing but the US equivalent propaganda, and also murder porn (leaving out all the bad parts about murder).
Turds like this only ranks high in *your* value system of literally only war and profit. (Like the Ferrengi and Klingons combined. With the warm-heartedness of the Vulcans.)
Oh no they do not. I think the staff at the national parks are still working, at least maintaining the concession stands since those produce revenue. I guess forest rangers cannot man coffee shops
Most public parkland is self-funding through a combination of volunteers and usage fees.
Pit toilets, the most common kind, in most parks can go a year without maintenance.
And guess what happens in the off season, which it currently is. Nobody's there anyway. The iron ranger* is their best employee and he is on duty.
*Avid outdoorsman slang for the daily usage fee/trail fee/parking fee box. You write out some info on an envelope, add money, and drop it in the box. Maybe a federal employee will collect it and check if you paid the right amount one day a week. Maybe.
Illegal immigrants hurt parks more without wall. Build the wall!
It will take 100,000,000,000 times infinity years to make up for a couple of weeks of park ranger absence. These numbers have been backed by non Trump voting scientists, so you know they are accurate.
Shutdowns cost more than simply leaving the government open.
Trump asks for $5billion to waste on a stupid wall he promised we wouldn't have to pay for.
"oMg TeH LiBtaRdS aRe dEmANdiNg mOrE $$$$$ frOM Urrr pOkkITS!!!"
Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
makes me sad that a great piece of nature can't stay clean for a few days unless there are paid people who clean up after the visitors - the real trash are the humans leaving their trash behind.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
"lazy park staff going AWOL"
I'm sure your boss is glad to hear you'd be willing to work for weeks on end without getting paid. After all, you're not lazy, right?
Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
I think shutdowns cost some people more than they thought. Ever wonder what happens when someone realizes that they actually did not need your services?
Nature doesn't give a fuck about us. True.
We already are this planet's biggest extinction event ever, surpassing even a complete reversal of athmospheric composition. Yet life and this planet will simply go on without us.
We humans are definitely on the way out though. And that is a good thing.
But it won't save any money. It will lose the federal government money when it needs to start up everything again. There is also the tax on the rest of the economy due to not being able to access the government services they need, such as the courts. And that doesn't count the gov. employees not getting paid but having to work regardless, and the gov. employees simply not getting paid. If they are living paycheck to paycheck, they are SOL. Then there are the government contractors. Ever since Reagan, the Fed. Gov. was forced to contract out for some of its functions to the private sector. Those contractors are not getting paid. So their businesses get a hidden tax due to the disruption.
The last gov. shutdown cost the federal government $20 Billion. All become some dolt from Texas (Ted Cruz) got up one morning and decided to be even stupider than normal for him.
He said tax payers not Mexicans.
concession stands are usually licensed and are not directly run by the parks themselves.
The units of the NPS, the Smithsonian, and other cultural institutions simply will not continue to tolerate shutdown after shutdown. Many of them already have private foundations which assist their operations, and because they're so under-funded by the gov't to begin with (e.g., Smithsonian is the only Federal agency actually allowed to fund-raise because of their pathetic level of funding) and with the gov't continually using them as a political football, it's not a stretch for them all to go fully public-private and just opt out of the whole broken system. For example, Gettysburg National Military Park has done this for years now, and while their NPS staff have indeed been furloughed, the Visitors Center and battlefield are both open during this current shutdown, paid for by the Gettysburg Foundation. Some foundations at other NPS units are actually paying ranger salaries so they can keep working.
Oh yeah, and it's time for Smithsonian to start charging an entry fee. Discount / waive it for the poor if you wish, but well-off and middle-class visitors can and should pay *something*. Even our friends in Europe charge admission fees to their museums.
And, no, the states *won't* sell off and develop the parks, especially if the management is turned over with lots of strings attached.
That is so smart: tell the government what is good for the government to get them to think your way so you can live off the taxpayers dole. Government does not see through those ploys
I vist a lot of National Parks throughut the year, and most the time I don't see a soul. No employees, no visitors.
Doesn't mean they're not there. Do you see people building the roads when you go? They still got built and maintained didn't they.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Don't care. Keep it shut down until a wall, or a new minefield, or a new bombing/firing range is built on the southern border. When they are done with that do the same around California.
Better yet fund those things but take the money out of the part of the government not shut down, the other 85%.
Sell the parks and lower government responsibility.
To who? Who is going to buy all these parks and maintain them when there's no way at all enough people would come and pay enough to make that a profitable business. Or just chop them all down and sell the wood? Yeah, see how well that goes.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Ideal job: park custodian because they never get fired. And people would stab their parents in the back to get those jobs
Thats what happens when there is a idiot behind the wheel that needs pictures drawn to grasp things.
America really went down the drain in the worlds eyes the last years. No longer a power to rely on when it have the temperament of a todler and lying toung like the worst charlatan.
Good luck tring to dig your self out of that hole. the rest of us will make more popcorn and watch the horror comedy.
The funny part is they (the trump ones at least) think they've taken a step up and and shining brighter than ever (which was never really that bright anyway)
The new owners will do whatever they wish in compliance with the laws of the land.
If you want a little piece of wilderness to escape your shitty sardine can lifestyle, buy some. Its surprisingly affordable.
Here here... the NPS is a joke. I love the national parks themselves and have visited nearly every single one in the western US. They are some of my favourite places on this earth. Unfortunately the NPS bureaucrats are complete garbage. Turn the lands over to the states... the visitors will be better off and so will the rangers. Fire the administrators and sentence them to homelessness for life.
When people go somewhere that their money has paid for, do you call them trespassers? Idiot.
Soooo... national parks are a good buy? I do not buy that
Every big government agency will scream national tragedy if the teat stops delivering milk. The truth is, you could stop spending on national parks forever and nothing would ever come of it. The parks would still be there. People would still go there. They'd piss on trees and bury their poop like people did for centuries before modern plumbing. Trash might be a problem since so much stuff is non-degradable, but all you have to do there is start beating people within an inch of their lives for littering and people wouldn't litter.
Problem solved.
Volunteers in Joshua Tree are collecting trash from the parks, and I assume in other places too.
No reason much of the janitorial aspect of the parks could not be covered by a gofundme that would cover hiring a real janitorial company, plenty of people would be willing to pay.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Sell the parks and lower government responsibility.
To who? Who is going to buy all these parks and maintain them when there's no way at all enough people would come and pay enough to make that a profitable business. Or just chop them all down and sell the wood? Yeah, see how well that goes.
Zinke had quite a few people lined up before he ran off to avoid investigations (which may still happen anyway). Of course, the new owners didn't plan on keeping them open as national parks, they want the lumber/mineral rights, etc.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
I don't agree with the idea of "closing" the wilderness. Paying armed guards to keep people out of a place they have a legal right to go to any other time seems silly to me.
These parks can't take care of themselves. It's not like these public lands have existed for millennial without the aid of the US government and NPS. The national parks will be destroyed in just a few weeks, and it's all because of Trump, or Pelosi if you swing that way.
We need government funding and maintenance on these public lands, presently unused because they are chin deep in snow and ice as well as locked gates, or everything will fall apart. You can't expect wilderness to take care of itself for fucks sake! We're talking cats and dogs living together. Mass hysteria. Real, wrath of God shit.
It's an outrage! I'mma go on Tweeter and express my views right now. I'm not kidding! I'm really going to do this.
Fan of anarchy? This is what it looks like.
The US basically has no government right now, except for the fact that taxes are still owed as if the government was still operational.
"Everybody's naked underneath" -- The Doctor
Now you say you're lonely
You cry the long night through
Well, you can cry me a river
Cry me a river
I cried a river over you
Now you say you're sorry
For being so untrue
Well, you can cry me a river
Cry me a river
'Cause I cried, I cried, I cried a river over you
You drove me, nearly drove me, out of my head
While you never shed a tear
Remember, I remember, all that you said?
You told me love was too plebeian
Told me you were through with me and
And now you say, you say you love me
Well, just to prove you do
Come on and cry me a river
Cry me a river
'Cause I cried a river over you
You drove me, nearly drove me, out of my head
While you never shed a tear
Remember, I remember, all that you said?
Told me love was too plebeian
Told me you were through with me and
Now, now you say you love me
Well, just to prove you do
Come on and cry, cry, cry me a river
Cry me a river
'Cause I cried a river over you
If my pillow could talk, imagine what it would have said
Could it be a river of tears I cried instead?
So you can cry me a river
Daddy, go ahead and cry me a river
'Cause I cried, how I cried a river over you
How I cried a river over you
OK, the government quit us so now lets get a decent president in place. What an opportunity !
a few weeks of gov't shutdown won't cause years of damage to the fucking parks. Get real you assholes.
Everyone knows that when the government shuts down, Obama sends paid guards to prevent anyone entering a national park. This is what happened when he shut down government to force Obamacare. This is what happens now that Obama is trying to force the wall. You won't win, Obama!
My wife worked as one. They wouldn't be stabbing each other in the back for the pay.
OBAMA shutdowns cost more money
I'm sorry that people can't ride their bikes, hike and camp right now.
Maybe, with some of the money we recoup by tackling illegal immigration, we can rectify some of that.
But border security has been one of these everpresent "talking points" for DECADES now.
They pull it out and hammer on it during elections.
But the second elections are over, they pack it away, to use during the next election.
And this is both sides of the aisle.
And people are sick of it.
The issue needs to be put to bed.
NOW.
If there is collateral damage? SO BE IT.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Obama promised he would close Guantanamo.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Some of my money goes to Amazon. Does that mean I can hold a party in whichever house Bezos isn't using this week?
There's already a wall around it to keep riff raff out.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Yes, poorer people can always afford to buy some, it's a known fact, and don't rely on national parks to maybe see an elk once in their lives. The poor should just decide not to be poor. It's just a failure of will.
You can beat that retarded drum all you want but nobody gives a tinker's cuss when the government is shut down.
Yeah this is a no brainer.
Everyone needs to stop acting so petty, a country without borders isn't a country.
You think trash in national parks is bad now? Imagine how bad it would be if you had no border control at all.
If people that care about the country drop that much garbage, imagine what people who don't care about it would do.
Fund the wall.
I use to drive a tour bus in California. Every year we would take a bunch of volunteers to some national parks where they would help clean up and make ready areas in the parks for warm season guest. This can be done everywhere. So stop whining and get the program moving in the spring.
This is only the 3rd longest shutdown in history but now, this time, the national parks just can't handle it? "years of damage"?! Sounds like slanted news.
Criticizing Obama for not being progressive enough in response to something like this is not having the rhetorical effect you seem to want.
Spewing a load of BS in response to my post doesn't convince anyone of your ability to recognize a comparison.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Obama shuts down government: He's a stern negotiator who won't take any republican shit.
Trump shuts down government: Orange man bad!
Great, so they both lied. And? I thought Trump was supposed to be different
Whoever the hell modded this funny has an overactive sarcasm detector. And isnt getting a new virgin forest hewn table.
No, the narrative is not the same. Most conservatives are fine with the shutdown, and would have no problem with it becoming permanent. And have more of the government shutdown. In general, with some particular details excepted.
Does Bezos come to your house with guns if you don't buy products from Amazon?
Because the federal government does. Idiot.
Seriously? "The poor" aren't the ones going to national parks, dipshit.
The bears are LOVING THIS!
You're obviously European. And I learned a new British word today.
Ill-informed pillock.
Parks were there before you self absorbed basterds
Parks will be there after you're dead.
Look, if you don't want to have countries anymore because it means you don't get to feel superior for using your tired, worn-out, ignorant American race politics which merge every group that isn't white men into one homogeneous blob, go do it somewhere else.
In fact, why not move to Mexico? That would really show those rednecks! Be bold, be daring!
You're a faggot. Trump is a traitor. Obama had no legal option to close Gitmo, said the courts. You back Trump again and you should hang from your faggot neck, just like that traitor will.
Can't even clean up after themselves and resort to shitting in parks when the government doesn't wipe their ass for them.
There is no news here. Yogi will still get his picnic baskets and BooBoo will survive. The tragedy here is that people actually believe that the park system NEEDS humans to maintain it.
Yes, as far as cleaning out dead wood and controlled burns, which are NOT done there is little more to be done. Oh yes,they have to pick up the trash from the American TRASH that visit the parks and leave them bit of "history" along with spray painting and destroying the parks. But hey, We're Americans and Satan gave us the right to be get drunk, smoke dope, and fornicate like a Netflix producer with a pig.
You sound like someone who liked and shilled for George W. Bush. Oh no, is Trumpity Trump Trump not invading enough places for you? Needs to go get into a pointless war with Big Bad Assad because Iraq wasn't enough? :)
Yes, and just like the wall, the barrier isn't the President's will or honesty, but rather Congress. Co-equal branches and all that. So I wouldn't call either Obama failing to close Guantanamo or Trump failing to build the wall a lie, strictly speaking. Had Congress backed the Guantanamo shutdown, I have no doubt Obama would have come through. Similarly, if Congress funds the wall, I expect Trump to at least try to build the wall. I say try only because he and his administration are incompetent and I could totally see them botching the whole fucking thing. I could also see a lot of the funds being squandered due to corruption, and thus the wall ultimately never being completed.
But that aside, the lie was that Trump promised we would not pay for the wall, and now he is demanding that we do. And unlike Trump supporters who gladly overlook the lie and actually start to pledge their own money to a GoFundMe without hesitation... I am not happy with the fact that Obama was unable to close Guantanamo. He himself has said that it's one of the biggest regrets of his Presidency. If Trump makes taxpayers pay for the wall, do you think he would ever admit regret at not getting Mexico to pay for it?
Your attempt to create this false equivalency falls apart at every single level. I think, regardless of what your political leanings are, very few people would consider Barack Obama and Donald Trump to be anything alike.
Anyway, now that I've dealt with your whataboutism... my point wasn't that Trump lied. It's Trump, of course he lied. I was primarily responding to OP's complaint about, and I quote:
liberal BS demanding more of your money out of your pocket
The fact that Trump lied about Mexico paying for the wall merely makes the irony all the sweeter.
Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
Your comparison isn't valid. Promising to do something and failing because of opposition is not the same as promising to do something and reneging.
Ahh yes, and now the Trump Derangement Syndrome kicks in. There it was, lurking just beneath the surface all along.
citation needed..this number is built on a mountain of lies.
The Mexicans opposed paying for it. I'm sorry you're not too good at this debating stuff, AC.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
You mean, the government neglecting the forests falling under their purview, which includes wooded national parks--obviously only affecting national parks with timber--isn't already damaged? Aren't those the forests that burned because of lack of management?
There's no difference.
Diane Regas according to Forbes:
"I am Executive Director of Environmental Defense Fund, where I direct our strategic plan and mission to address to global climate change and natural resource challenges. I am passionate about increasing shared prosperity and stewardship both domestically and internationally, while also developing scientifically and economically sound solutions. I spent five years at EDF managing the Oceans Program advocating for reforms and programs that help fisherman while also rebounding fisheries in the U.S., Mexico and Europe. I’ve also worked closely on our climate and energy projects, identifying new ways to open markets to clean energy financing. Before joining EDF, I spent 20 years developing and supporting scientifically sound bipartisan solutions to environmental challenges at the Environmental Protection Agency."
In other words, despite the last sentence there this undeniably a partisan political drive.
Really, common sense should tell you that nothing of much significance happens in the span of a couple weeks, especially when park rangers and security are still there. Most of this staff didn't even exist pre-Clinton and many state and private parks are serviced by fewer staff and less frequently on an ongoing basis while remaining great resources.
I just find it hilarious to watch you Americans bitch about a paltry $5B border wall, but look the other way when an audit of the Pentagon (which itself costs a billion a year, for the past 28 years) confirms that indeed, trillions of dollars are unaccounted for and in fact they have no idea exactly how much money is unaccounted for.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
This doesn't belong on /. Go find a eco website to talk about this on.
School districts do this carp all the time - "pass our desired millage or we'll just have to shut down the football team!" No diversity czar or stupid program at the school ever goes unfunded, of course, just the programs that people actually care about.
It's a transparently manipulative move.
Why doesn't the public step up and volunteer? Why does the government need to wipe everyone's ass?
Not even remotely true. The vast majority of illegal immigrants get here legally and then don't leave before their visa expires.
People hopping the border aren't an issue. Plus walls don't work any better than the terrain does along much of that route anyways.
I used to come to this site years ago for a good discussion. Now I look at the comments and they are just idiotic.
Yes please! Merge all the "races" into one "homogeneous blob". I can't wait for us to stop treating one group of people differently than another because of some dumb reason like someone's skin is a half shade darker than someone else's or they were born in a part of the world with more sun than some people are comfortable with.
I even have a name for that "blob". We can call it the Human Race. See? Catchy, and you morons can still use the race word.
And for the life of me I cannot understand why it is you idiots keep suggesting that everyone who calls you out on your weird non-logic arguments should get out of the country.
IT'S NOT YOUR COUNTRY. It actually belongs to all the citizens and wanna-be citizens and workers with visas and everyone else who calls it HOME.
Grow up. Accept that people are different. Get along. Just like kindergarten.
I just find it hilarious that your only defense is whataboutism
There is a difference between pushing a policy that congress didn't support and making an empty promise that a foreign government is going to finance a capital project. This is too obvious for you to miss, so out of respect for your intelligence I have to conclude you aren't arguing in good faith.
orange man bad
Thanks for conceding defeat. It's nice to have someone who knows they've lost for once and are so good at indicating it.
The history of state management of their lands doesn't support point. For example, the state of Oklahoma has had to severely cut back on their own parks due to budget problems. States will just as quickly sell of their lands.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
A half million an acre is not affordable.
This.
Right now, the needle is pegged to the right. America needs this. It's growing pains going forward into a new global economy.
Fear prevails and that makes for bad decisions. The fear is escalating into panic.
I like what I'm seeing. Let's drill, baby drill and pollute some water.
Let's dance on the edge of a Great Depression with tariff wars.
Let's continue to move profitable businesses into more capitalistic-friendly countries.
Build a wall all around the American borders. Let no in and, importantly, let no one out.
America is suffering from brain-drain as the chaos sets in at home. People with expertise want to make money using those skills.
Continue the dumbing down of American education. Eventually, we'll grow an onion-picking work force.
Carry on with the intolerance of non-White, non-Christian, anti-LGBTQ and anti-women slash and burn.
Only after we hit rock bottom will America come to its sense.
Meanwhile, I'll be at the swimming pool. Don't call.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Is this what the Libertarians would create for us all? Trash piles, crumbling everything?
Excuse me? I'm not looking the other way on anything.
The issue with the wall is not only the cost. If it was, then I'd mostly agree with you.
Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
"Never before have I seen the federal government tempt fate in national parks the way we are today,"
In the history of Earth, this tempting of fate represents a few atoms' width in the thickness of a sheet of paper government management represents on a mile long historical timeline.
Get a fucking grip.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Trump has floated two (2) ideas:
1.) Get Mexico to pay for the wall
2.) Declare a national emergency and use national defense money to build the wall.
So, there's two (2) plans. How many does he need?
Congress should remove itself from discussions concerning the wall, telling Trump to implement either or both of his excellent solutions.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
For those who don't know, it is actually illegal for government workers to go to work if they are not funded, unless they are on the exceptions list. So the "government' isn't the one at fault here, it is the 435 Assholes in DC who are having a dick measuring contest and thereby ruining the country. The budget, since GW left, has been a political football, and those 435 assholes have been fucking over the US Citizenry with it just to prove who has the biggest dick.
"Governments have been dominated by the corporate entities and citizens have ceased to matter in public policy" true in
I'm arguing for the decentralization of national park management. Singling out an isolated example doesn't invalidate the argument for decentralization. What's more, the current Federal shutdown (BTW not the first and not the last) is proof that the Federal government is a single point of failure.
Interior can turn the *management* of the parks over to the states but keep the parks in a national trust. The fact is that states *love* having national parks because they bring in tourist dollars. Let states manage the parks, let them have some skin in the game.
Aside from cleaning up the trash, note that TFA says the main problem is deferred maintenance. Specifically, maintenance that was already deferred, when the shutdown started. Which hints at the real problem: the Forest Service has stupid priorities for its money. Pournelle's Iron Law has taken over: it's better for your little empire to have a bunch of GS-13's on your staff than the same number of GS-9's, but you can't send a GS-13 to empty trash cans. And if you have the choice between some of that boring maintenance work, or hiring another employee in your empire, well, that's how the maintenance gets deferred in the first place.
Private industry cleans out the deadwood, when it has built up to the point of impacting profits. Government never has that impetus. The best thing that could happen to most government bureaucracies, would be to fire nearly everyone and start over. If the shutdown goes on long enough, maybe that will happen automatically, because people will have found jobs elsewhere.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
OK. So much for the rural wilderness parks. They will survive, much as they did before they were turned into interstates through the forest with fast food joints at the viewpoints. But there are a lot of 'parks' in urban areas. And many of these facilities cannot be protected from being overrun by less than desirable visitors (i.e. homeless bums pitching tents and scattering needles).
Have gnu, will travel.
I'll give a flip about "white genocide" when your definition doesn't include my ghostly Irish butt getting down with a black girl.
Popular entertainment. Besides, why do Hollywood movies always need to follow the same schematic? I much prefer Ingmar Bergman, Pedro Almodovar or Emir Kusturica. Hollywood films lack originality.
Since Democrats are responsible for the shutdown, they just need to work with him and provide funding for the wall.
Not only are the government contractors not getting paid, they won't be reimbursed like the federal workers have been after every shutdown. So that means there's about 12 million Americans right now who are collecting unemployment insurance benefits as a result of the shutdown. And if you're a small business with a government contract, a payment delay such as this shutdown is probably going to sink you. So we have millions claiming tax dollars for lack of work (most of that burden is shifted to the states) and an unknown number of small businesses closing up shop for good. The cost of this is in far excess of any money that is going to be saved.
And let's really think about this. This is over $5.7B. To put that into the context of a median American family income, it is like not paying the rent because your spouse spent $6.50 a month on some service. It's barely even a blip on the average budget.
Kindly publish their actual physical addresses, so we can use their front yards for dumping trash.
Humans aren't special, at all. The "National Parks" existed just fine without damage for billions of years.
Fearmongering is awesome. Don't you love when Slashdot Morphs into CNN?
Are you familiar with how a wall works? A ladder? If your border security can be defeated by a ladder, your border security is laughably pathetic. Spending $5B on security that can be defeated by your typical lower-class Mexican is the peak of ignorance and stupidity.
I've gone camping or hiking at a number of these national parks and the reality is -- they're not always that free of trash and kept well maintained, even when they have a full government staff.
I'm not saying it's a great situation having trash cans that aren't getting emptied for visitors right now ... But volunteers have already taken it upon themselves to do some of that in a few parks. It's not like you need special training that comes with the job of "park ranger" to be able to do it!
I live right by part of the C&O Canal:
https://www.nps.gov/choh/index...
This thing is over 180 miles long, and most people I know who ride horses or bicycle through it will tell you they've almost never seen a government employee doing any cleanup or maintenance work on it. People in my town are regularly organizing small groups on weekends to walk along a section of it and pick up any cans, bottles or other trash they find -- because we really don't EXPECT to wait for some Federal employee to keep it nice for us. It's a net benefit to our community to have it nearby, so we can attract business from people traveling along it who stop for a meal or even to stay overnight.
The mass media is trying to sound the alarm of how horrible a couple weeks of government shutdown has been to our parks, but I'm going to call B.S. on this one. It's all part of a concerted effort to apply as much pressure as possible to re-open government, mainly so people working for them can get paid again. I get it... Nobody likes to lose their regular paycheck. But it rings a bit hollow as being the "whole truth".
"reversing damage won't be as easy as throwing out the trash"
Good.
But the real yeah we should be throwing out us 98% of the federal bureaucracy.
I don't even know how many weeks we are into the shutdown...because the federal government is useless. The only exception is the IRS still wanting my money and a few random, useless federal employees whining that they aren't getting paid out of my wallet.
Let me know when the IRS stops collecting taxes for this collosal waste of my money.
In order for those to work - you still need federal employees to manage the program, supervise it's execution, etc... etc... And in case you haven't noticed - the federal government is shut down.
So your point is spend 100B instead, ok you got it buddy
I see the chink troll factory is out in full force
This always happens during shutdowns. Affected agencies structure their operation so as to inflict the most drama on the public that is humanly possible to drive their point that they disagree with the shutdown.
The IRS does it too. They always reduce taxpayer services and support but keep enforcement running at full capacity when it should be the other way around.
SHUT THE PARKS DOWN COMPLETELY! Clearly park admins are responsible for this, not the shutdown.
Any park that is not shutdown to the general public should have its administrator fired immediately.
One thing is right: this crap sack of a POTUS will never get reelected.
I see the racist Americans are out in force, too!
Perhaps you can cool the racism you cute wittle Nazi-wannabe. I'd say you're making you country look bad, but just look at the ass-clown you fucktards elected.
#americaisthejokeoftheworld
Where is anything even close to genocide proposed? There is no reading of the parent that leads to your statement so I have to conclude to you are replying to something completely different.
This was obviously written by some Park Ranger trying to get back to work in a hurry. What a bunch alarmist BS!
It's below freezing and the heat is off because shutdown. The pipes are filled with antifreeze and the water main is off.
The vault toilets are open.
Our local park has been completely overrun by drug users and homeless people. There's trash and needles everywhere, they are setting fires improperly, and are shitting all over the place. It's a tragedy.
When it comes to anything even remotely political, Slashdot always leans hard to one side. They wouldn't want you to hear about this story here, for example. An excerpt below:
The federal government isn't the only way to care for the parks. Also, if the parks are getting full of trash, I ask you this: Who put it there?
Nothing is happening in our parks that cannot be fixed. Stop acting like the National Parks system is vital to our nation's functioning. Besides, it's probably mostly liberals in those parks that think "they have people for that" instead of demeaning themselves by cleaning up when they leave.
...because breasts.
Are you familiar with how a wall works? A ladder? If your border security can be defeated by a ladder, your border security is laughably pathetic. Spending $5B on security that can be defeated by your typical lower-class Mexican is the peak of ignorance and stupidity.
The $5B aren't enough to complete the wall. That would require on the order of $25B. The $5B thing can be defeated by walking around it.
She's been an activist in this area for a long time, so it is surprising that she did not notice the previous long shutdowns. Jimmy Carter shut it down three times (11, 12, and 18 days). Bill Clinton shut it down for 21 days (also 5 days), and Barack Obama shut it down for 16 days, So far, Trump's shutdown is tied with Obama, but Clinton's was the longest.
There have been many, here's a list:
https://www.thoughtco.com/gove...
But that aside, the lie was that Trump promised we would not pay for the wall, and now he is demanding that we do.
The fact that Trump lied about Mexico paying for the wall merely makes the irony all the sweeter.
Trump walked back the "Mexico will pay for it", I think even before he was elected (or maybe it was right after). He clarified that the cost would be offset by the increase in revenue to businesses in the US, due to his better trade deals. However, most people were probably not paying attention at that point, or didn't care, and the big picture message "Mexico will pay*" was said a lot. Without the asterisk :) But at least 50% of the country doesn't care who pays for it in any event, they just want the wall. They expect some physical barrier along with sophisticated electronics and stuff. Whatever makes it work. Physical barriers are considered (by these people) to be part of what works. And the $5B is understood to be just a beginning.
Congress is intent on not allowing Trump to keep a campaign promise, regardless of anything else. The leading House Democrats voted for walls before - that's how we got the partial wall that's already there. And $5B is (unfortunately) pocket change. It's all politics.
I think you'll find that Americans are generally more accepting of incompetence than raw ego combined with blathering stupidity.
I.e., it's about on par with Trump's desire to display a military parade.
I just find it hilarious to watch you Americans bitch about a paltry $5B border wall, but look the other way when an audit of the Pentagon
In fact, the VERY FIRST comprehensive audit of the DOD ever attempted.
https://federalnewsnetwork.com...
What's more concerning is not the down-to-the-penny accounting of what happens to be the largest and most complex enterprise in the world, but rather the amount of physical assets that are unaccounted for. Items like "missing" warehouses of chemical warfare protection suits; you know, stuff you kinda might need at any moment.
No, it would be the park visitors that dont care about the environment, If you are visiting a park full well knowing the usual services are not available you would pack your trash back out with you rather then just dump it on the overflowing trashcan.
About the only thing that might be out of a visitors control is restroom facilities. If the facilities are not locked up, then any horrible condition they might be in is once again the cause of shitty visitors not doing their part to keep them as usable as possible with limited maintenance. helping to keep them usable could literally be as simple as people bringing their own roll of TP from home. Had every visitor brought their own roll and left it in a restroom there would probably be more rolls of TP than they could use in those restrooms for the next month.
+Insightful
You are wrong. Most illegal immigrants overstay visas after arriving here on a plane, not sneak across a border. You know, facts?
The hysteria over the southern border is fueled a lot more by rascism than it is sensible policy designed to combat immigration. The people are brown. Thatâ(TM)s the only real reason itâ(TM)s even an issue. Itâ(TM)s like spending five billion to build a wall in front of your backdoor when most people simply enter through the front.
No. Unless, of course, that is what people really wanted.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
And let's really think about this. This is over $5.7B. To put that into the context of a median American family income, it is like not paying the rent because your spouse spent $6.50 a month on some service. It's barely even a blip on the average budget.
I love how conservatives frame 5.7 Billion dollars as chump change when it's time to build the Berlin Wall mk2, but medicare and the VA need to tighten their belts because taxation is satanic every other day of the week. Trump is the spouse refusing to pay the rent because the Dems won't give him your "$6.50/month" to spend on hookers and blow.
"ignorant American race politics"
As opposed to everywhere else which just embraces blatant racism as normal culture and pretends there are lynchings, hangings, shooting, and beatings happening everywhere in the US so you can view your bullshit as different.
They even wave the flags of other countries as they do it.
Kinda like the motherfuckers with their participation trophies flying the treason flag here?
It's Oklahoma. One empty flat boring 'park' is plenty. Nobody goes to Oklahoma for vacation, the people that live there just stopped wherever their wagon broke. Still have the broken wheel by the drive to mark the location.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Pick up your own trash... Problem solved and we did not need the government.
Let's see. If you take southern culture to be a system of oppression of people into slavery or a lower caste system, then who wouldn't reasonable have a hatred of southern culture and call for its destruction? You do realize that southern culture != southern people, right? There's plenty of people in the south (and north, west, and east) who abandoned southern culture a long time ago and have consistently fought against its many forms for how bad it is. There's nothing about many of the positive aspects of southern culture that couldn't be maintained, so long as you recognize it doesn't come free through the use of a slave class but through one's own hard work. All of that is definite progressive values and ideas.
That's the big "problem" is it?
I'm more worried about the damage at the border, no government to pick up trash there.
Sounds like there is a problem with the people and not the government. People want their taxes to pay for the government to clean up after them - ridiculous. And I am assuming itâ(TM)s the same morons that mocked claims that there is nothing that can be done about the California fires.
Trump walked back the "Mexico will pay for it",
And I'm willing to bet he walked back that walk-back. The man constantly talks out of both sides of his head.
He clarified that the cost would be offset by the increase in revenue to businesses in the US, due to his better trade deals.
Hey, that would certainly qualify as "making Mexico pay for it". If he could do that, then I'd say his campaign promise was met. But he can't. Mexico just shifts trade to S. America. Raise the tariffs on mexican goods and they'll go elsewhere. It's not saving us any money if the "better trade deal" just stops trade. That REDUCES revenue.
But at least 50% of the country doesn't care who pays for it in any event, they just want the wall.
You're a fool if you think everyone who voted for Trump (20.4% of the US population) is just fine with spending the $5 Billion+ on it. Or if you think Trump isn't losing credibility with his base over who is paying for it.
It's all politics.
Some of it is politics, for sure. And Trump is really bad at politics. So now everything is shut down.
Essential government services that are still staffed: collecting taxes.
Non-essential services that are not staffed: sending refund checks.
Some conservatives you means, the ultra libertarians whose goal is to effectively dismantle all government. That's not all conservatives though, and most definitely a small minority of voters. Even if the government were to be dismantled, it would be insane to do it suddenly instead of doing this slowly with a transition. Otherwise you get tons of soldiers suddenly jobless with no civilian sector capable of taking them all in; you'd have soldiers stuck overseas as well. The federal highways would fall apart, with fights over who actually owns them since there's no government to decide this. The states would have to set up invididual trade deals with each other while at the same time there would be no federal judiciary to smooth this over (assuming states get to keep governments).
Maybe the analogy is like going without electricity. You can learn over time how to live off the grid. But if there's a sudden nationwide blackout you'd get riots in the street.
Not an issue for federal employees, they have unions which prevent laying off unneeded workers.
And Obama didn't mean "If you you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" literally. Your stupid excuse of an argument cuts both ways, dumbass.
That's typical republican bullshit. I already paid my taxes to cover this and now you want me to pay you the taxes and STILL make me do the work for free. FUCK YOU.
Congress is intent on not allowing Trump to keep a campaign promise, regardless of anything else.
I agree, the Republicans who controlled Congress for the last 2 years really let the President down.
The leading House Democrats voted for walls before - that's how we got the partial wall that's already there. And $5B is (unfortunately) pocket change. It's all politics.
Yeah and the Senate voted unanimously in favor of the budget, which would override a veto... Why are you holding House Democrats responsible for changing their mind but not Senate Republicans?
And the wall before was not coerced by holding the entire government hostage. Giving into the whiny (trigger warning for pussy grabbing MAGA snowflakes) motherfucker will just enable this behavior in the future.
Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
I'm pointing out a major flaw to your argument to decentralization. Splitting up the parks to the states don't make them better, it means there are now 50 managers of the lands. I can't see how that is better.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Oklahoma is the epitome of what's wrong with the argument. They are one of the states that wants more control of the national park lands in their state. Yet they are so badly managed that they cannot afford their current state parks.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
People might start to figure out that life can go on without those government dollars. Politicians definitely won't allow us to get to that point!
The issue with the wall is not only the cost. If it was, then I'd mostly agree with you.
You have a problem with walls? Do you live in a lean to, or does your house have walls? Why?
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Please note that it's not privately owned parks having an issue....
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
That's one theory. But when about 80% of the government remains up and running, is "dismantle" really the correct word for you to choose?
Sure thing Roman. We'll fire everyone in the government until there is only one ultimate ruler, who is accountable to nobody. As long as he holds your preferred holy book in his (naturally it can only be a man) hand that is all we need, right? The other countries that have tried this just used the wrong book, of course - they just need to change the book and everything will come up roses.
Oh wow! You responded directly to something I actually said!
I'll have to answer you after I get over the shock.
Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
The issue with the wall is not only the cost. If it was, then I'd mostly agree with you.
...does your house have walls? Why?
To keep the roof up.
His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
I just find it hilarious to watch you Americans bitch about a paltry $5B border wall...
Nah, that ain't it. At this point it's basically a dick-waving contest between Trump and Pelosi.
His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
Since this is getting too out of hand, there needs to be a bigger "base" budget that can not be lowered, but follow inflation, so that more of the government basically can't be shutdown like this. I have no idea how this would come about, architecturally or politically.
... theirs for the "taking", an act of genocide and obliteration of species, landscapes, forests, wetlands and nature on a maniacal scale. ... :(
Yeah, america