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New Hampshire is the only state nationwide that does not have a mandatory seatbelt law. One of the few places left where adults are (mostly) allowed to make their own decisions. A bunch of us are working to keep it that way - check out www.freestateproject.org.

it was the United States of America and San Francisco?

No, it'd be California, the 8th largest economy in the world, or New Hampshire. Libertarians chose the state for the Free State Project.

Falcon

I hope all you self-described Libertarians are members of the Free State Project where there would actually be a chance to distance yourselves from the federal government.

Unrelated: didn't Obama create some .gov where we can go berate him for this kind of crap?

Oh please. I bet you're the sort of person who believes that we can replace all our coal plants with Wind and Hydro by 2015 if we spent enough money.

In "A Solar Grand Plan" Sciam lays out how Solar power could provide 69% of the USA's electricity by 2050, about 35 years after your 2015. The Wind Energy Resource Atlas of the United States by the Renewable Resource Data Center (RReDC) of the government's National Renewable Energy Lab details the potential wind power of various areas of the US. As T Boone Picken's Picken's Plan lays out the Rocky Mountains alone contain enough potential wind energy to also provide electricity to the 48 continuous states.

First you have to get the liscensing for all these power plants. For Hydro, this is mostly impossible since someone will stand up and say that the turbines chew up fish at a ridiculous rate and destroy the river. For wind, people will complain about the birds. These drawbacks were true in 1960 but they aren't anymore. You'll be tied down for at least 3 years trying to get the permits and approval to build. And that's being optomistic.

Dams do mess up rivers. However some years ago there was a story on /. about how hydro can be used to generate electricity without dams. Instead water mills like egg beaters are lowered from a boom into the river then the moving water spins the mills. I wonder what's happened with that, I haven't heard anything about it since. What's stopping wind, especially offshore wind farms in places like Cape Cod in so called "liberals", who are not liberal, backyard are NIMBYs. And I bet many of them say they're environmentalists.

Coal is mostly clean now

Coal is no where near being clean, and never will be. Sure emissions from coal-fired power plants may be cleaner than before but coal mining is not clean what so ever.

As for natural Gas, its completely clean.

Gas is not clean either. Sure, like coal, CO2 may be captured and stored. Nitrogen oxides also have to be captured. Gas, at least Liquefied Natural Gas or LNG, also needs the same sort of infrastructure as oil.

I *want* one of these plants in my backyard.

I'd rather have PVs on my roof and a wind genie in my backyard.

If you want to turn this country into Vermont, maybe you should just move to Vermont.

No, the state for the Free State Project is New Hampshire, next door.

Falcon

>>>All the more reason I'm happy I don't live in the U.S. anymore.

Yeah because living the UK where everything you do is watched by camera or internet surveillance, or Australia where your net is filtered to protect you from (oh no) naked bodies, or in Japan where the government *forces* you to lose weight (mandatory diets) to reduce government health costs, or ..... Seriously - the U.S. for all its faults is still the most free spot on earth. Also the lowest tax rate (~35%). Unless you buy yourself a private island, and most of us are too poor to do that, so the U.S. is the second-best option.

I cannot think of any place I'd rather be than where I'm at right now... except maybe Tennessee (no income tax). Or New Hampshire.

Yeah, I agree that farm subsidies are monsterously stupid. The logic, in theory, is that if you simply allow agriculture in this country to go the way of manufacturing (which it might well do given lower labor costs elsewhere) then it becomes a national security issue.

The problem isn't that agricultural production would decline so much that national security would be at risk. A lot of people want to farm but they can't compeat with large agricultural businesses. As it is now, many in the third world are already facing the loss of farmers due to first world subsidies. Do you recall when the Doha Rounds fell apart in Geneva? Brazil, India, and other nations complained about the First World subsidies. If I recall right India's rep in the talks walked out and went back home when the EU refused to budge on EU subsidies. If anything it's the Third World countries that are facing national security issues and are loosing food security.

But as for the highway system. If we NEED these roads so much to move stuff to the cities, then maybe the cost should be born by the goods that need to be moved. I'm not really suggesting that all these roads should be abandoned, just that the costs should be allocated where they belong.

I agree and that's why I support user fees, when you drive on roads and use them you pay for it. Now unlike many Libertarians I don't believe in privatizing roads. Instead I'd have mileage taxed. When a person, or business, renews their license plate tags their odometer would be read and they'd pay a fee depending on how much they drove. If a person was considered about being hit by a big bill when they renew what they could do was to make monthly or quarterly payments. Then they can see what they have to pay for roads and if needed adjust their driving.

look at Vermont where I am

Ah, across the state line from the Free State Project state, New Hampshire.

Heck, you can't even find a farm in this state practically that MAKES money, IN SPITE of the fact that they get subsidized.

How much do those who farm get in subsidies though? I'd bet that if businesses like Archer Daniels Midland, who the Free Market CATO Institute says is "he most prominent recipient of corporate welfare in recent U.S. history" didn't get hugh subsidies then those farmers in Vermont could make an earning farming.

Falcon

If it's the case that the Libertarian Party is essentially too uncompromising on ideals in order to function in the real world, isn't there a middle ground somewhere? Some party that says "yes, we really do love liberty, and we recognize that it requires responsibility, but here are some concessions that we recognize must be made for the real world". Who is that party?

Sounds like the Free State Project.

Ahh I see.. such logic.

Man has always ruled other men.. so men *must* rule other men, right? Great scholars such as yourself had made similar statements before. "Man has never flown.. so man will never fly.. right?" They way you think I'm surprised we do not have a king or tribal chieftain.

I can't try it. The state wont allow me to ignore it.. such as ignore my taxes.. or ignore their courts.. they will kill me if I don't bow to them. However.. there are those that are trying.. http://freestateproject.org/

If you believe it is an issue with complexity then why do you support a centrally controlled system? How can a leader or government more accurately gauge the needs and desires of a large number of people better than those people themselves operating independently? They can't.. it's not about complexity and any child should know bureaucracy only *adds* complexity.. it's about force, plain as day. Forcing people to do what you, or the majority, or the king believes is best. I am opposed to this system because I believe it's wrong to instigate force on others. Force is at the root of all of the wars, murder, death, theft and rape man has ever known.. and it's the only tool a government has to use upon you. You asked me to.. so try saying no to government and see how far you get.. they will beat you, steal your property, throw you in a cage, ruin your life, and eventually kill you if you continue to resist them.. go on.. tell a cop no next time one asks you to do something.. test it out..

You say it "Can not work, because it has never worked.".. but how many have actually tried it? With the hundred of thousands of tyrannical governments created in all of history.. there are less than a dozen that have been truly free. Various forms of tyranny and oppression are ancient but still a popular idea.. freedom is the new untested idea. Some nations have actually done better under anarchy then otherwise. http://www.mises.org/story/2066 but you know.. you believe in magic and expect me to present you with a perfect utopia.. and such a thing will never exist.

The battle is not a battle of force.. it's a battle of education and it's a battle of philosophy.. Some day, in some future age, I hope all men will look back on this age and see the barbaric ways we control others just as we today look back on former societies and their similar barbaric ways.

Now I have a philosophical question for you.

What would you say a state is? (As in "The State of California".)

It's a simple question.. but the answer is not so simple. Is it the ground? If "The State of California" is a geographic location, can you tell me where "The State of California" was located before September 9, 1850? Perhaps we are getting ahead of ourselves.. lets try looking at the "facts" they teach us in school. The "states" and the "United States of America" were somehow "created" by men and women and pieces of paper and ink called "constitutions.". Now being nothing more than paper and ink, "constitutions" are only obligatory on men and women as contracts, a form of agreement, this is called a "body corporate (or politic)" in legal language, however those people who formed such agreements are now dead. Hmm.. Going back to the basics just brings up more questions such as.. "If contracts are always voluntary.. how does this agreement formed by now dead men extend to you?" Well never mind that.. we want to focus on this question.

You see.. The truth is.. "The State of California" is not much more diffrent than "The Pepsi Corporation" .. it's a figment of our imagination, a type of mass religion, it exists.. only because we believe it exists. It's a lot like the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus, the only problem is there are a lot of people who believe in that Tooth Fairy and they will kick your head in you you don't follow what they believe to be the "rules" the Tooth Fairy decided on. If there is anything at all that is actually tangible for a state.. it is nothing other than a piece of paper lying in some file cabinet somewhere..

I am proud to have been one of the many people who worked to ensure New Hampshire will never comply with Real-ID, or any national ID card that may come in the future.

It was a lot of work, but the demonstrations were fun :)

I have to say that New Hampshire is a state that I may have to retire to

Why wait?

Crap like this is just one more reason for people to get the hell out of that totalitarian state while they still can. Join the freedom-fighters in New Hampshire!

>>> None of those companies would have gotten anywhere without... government contracts.

But remember - most of our inventions go back to Edison Labs. He didn't receive government funds, but instead did it partly for his own enjoyment & partly to earn profit off his creations. Same applies to the other inventors of the day like Tesla or Bell. All of today's inventions ultimately trace back to a period (1800s) when Washington D.C. was little more than swampland & took a non-active role in business.

As for this Eureka Town in Australia, I kinda suspect it won't go anywhere.
I'd prefer to take part in this project: http://www.freestateproject.org/ (New Hampshire)

If you can't, move here.

But it's so... Cold there.

On the New Hampshire Driver's License application/renewal form, there's a checkbox on the back that requires the State to delete your photo from its database after making the license. (Now that they're mailing the licenses though I have to wonder about their backup strategies.)

Do it where you can and get your legislature to require your DMV to do so if necessary. Also get them to reject RealID. If you can't, move here.

I mean, why the fuck a county should regulate coffee machines instead of the state???

Because the State delegated the authority to the counties. Counties are creations of the State. Fortunately, in the Laboratory of Democracy you've got your choice of 50 States, all different (though none currently acting very sovereign when the Feds come knocking).

If your question had instead been, "why the fuck should coffee machines be regulated?" then I would have pointed you here.

Ah, you moved to the Free State Project state.

Yeah, it's about time those guys caught on. ;)

New Hampshire is the logical choice seeing as it's state motto is Live Free or Die". The project itself is pretty new, I think it started somewhere around 2003 or 2004.

I applied early decision to a College in western NH

If I were to move there I'd want to be somewhere between Nashua and Portsmouth, near the coast if not on it. Unfortunately finance makes that an impractical choice.

Falcon

Ah, you moved to the Free State Project state.

Falcon

I work in NYS but a neighboring state is less than fifteen miles from work. When I save enough $$$ to buy a house - at my age which will be the house I retire in - I will NOT be buying in NYS.

Try Florida, unless you're going to freak out when a hurricane comes along, it's a good state to retire to. There's no income tax, though there is a tax on non-real property such as stocks. Otherwise the only taxes are property tax and a sales tax of 4.5%, I believe that that's what it was when I lived there but I moved 10 years ago.

Me, I've thought about moving to New Hampshire and joining the Free State Project.

Falcon

I don't want to live in either a "Red" state or a "Blue" state.

What color would a FREE state be?

Now perhaps a few more people will understand why we fought so hard to ensure that New Hampshire will not participate in the Real-ID system, or any de facto national ID card that may follow.

>"Government is not the solution to our problem; Government *is* the problem" -R. Reagan | http://freestateproject.org/

..."And I'm the leader of all that!"

If I were more into politics than science, I would start some movement to have these restrained minorities unite on some website and plan to move in mass to desolate areas where their vote counts heavily. However that is one arduous process that I hope someone else takes on.

http://freestateproject.org/

More support is needed. Please spread the word.

If I were more into politics than science, I would start some movement to have these restrained minorities unite on some website and plan to move in mass to desolate areas where their vote counts heavily. However that is one arduous process that I hope someone else takes on.

You mean, kind of like these people? http://www.freestateproject.org/

although at least NH probably sucks too.

Most states suck at something, but at least here we have people working to make improvements.

(unless I ask them to give me guidence); I don't get to tell anyone else (except as guidance, not as law-enforced diktat)

Stuff like this is just one more reason I moved to New Hampshire

The Free State Project has a "what's your trigger point?" page, that lets people who join the Project, specify an event that would trigger their moving to New Hampshire. Basically, "What's the straw that would break the camel's back for you?"

For what's it's worth... by a long shot, the most common answer is, "If Hillary Clinton is elected to the office of President of the United States"

Parent post hit the nail on the head. Montana and New Hampshire did not ask for extensions. That would implicitly mean they want to comply but just need more time.

I wish states would step up and grow a pair more often. It's about time the states remembered their place in our system of checks and balances.

I'll throw my $0.02 in here: IMO, Ron Paul is probably not going to be the next POTUS, but I have worked damn hard and donated a fair bit of cash to get him there anyway. If he does not win the Republican nomination, I'm writing him in.

The key point here is that the Paul candidacy has raised the Constitution, and the notion that government should be limited as a serious issue to hundreds of thousands of Americans who otherwise may never have considered these things.

I hope that, win or lose, these people continue the fight.
That's what Ron said when my wife spoke to him, anyway...

Stories like this make me real glad I live in New Hampshire, one of only 6 US States that actually opted out of "Real-ID".

Videos of the protests we had against Real-ID are pretty cool.

It's true. The whole state of NY is one of the first to happily give all of its citizens a National ID card. NYC in particular led the way in banning trans fats, personal ownership of guns, and anything else that the Enlightened Representatives decide is "bad".

Crap like that is why people are fleeing New York for political asylum in the Free State of New Hampshire.

It's true. The whole state of NY is one of the first to happily give all of its citizens a National ID card. NYC in particular led the way in banning trans fats, personal ownership of guns, and anything else that the Enlightened Representatives decide is "bad".

Crap like that is why people are fleeing New York for political asylum in the Free State of New Hampshire.

"if you can SEE the neighbours, they're too close!") ... dunno about NH, but surrounding states have become quite kennel-hostile.

There are plenty of towns without zoning ordinances but your important point is about seeing the neighbors.

I have a friend who wanted to start a kennel right in the middle of an area with like 4 houses on not much property. I told her not to, but it was cheap. She wound up not buying the house (fortunately) at the last moment because the neighbors went apeshit. As would be expected.

In NH you need to get 10 acres of land or more to qualify for the "Current Use" program, where taxes are low on the property that isn't developed. If you have 9.5 acres, you're really screwed. I have 32 acres myself, but our house is near the road rather than in the middle of it, so we can see three of our neighbors. In my zone there's 400' minimum of road frontage, and we have 12 houses on a mile-long road so it's not too bad. And it's easier to plow my 200' driveway than if I had to go 1/4 mile like one of my neighbors does, but for a kennel it would be worth it.

There is a distinct lack of good kennels around here. Our dog passed last summer, but we were driving half an hour to get to the good one, and the others (closer) are always booked. So the business climate is probably pretty good. Not sure how the gas prices are affecting people's travel frequency of late, though.

If you have any interest the FSP is sponsoring a week-long festival in June for prospectives. I was way out in front, and beat the FSP by a number of years, but I came for the same reasons and try to give 'em a hand where I can.

http://www.freestateproject.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_State_Project

New Hampshire, the target of the Free State Project, has outright rejected and will not comply with the "Real-ID" program.

Details, including links to the specific legislation and videos of the protests, are here.

This is one of those times when not living in an earlly primary state is nice. Not being in a swing sate also help. They only want my money, not my vote. Is that the way it is supposed to work?

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/09/top-democrats-pull-from-michigan/#more-2664

On the other hand, I'm thinking about moving to New Hampshire where my vote might actually be worth something. I might even join the Free State Project.

Fears about this administration means you haven't studied US history too much.
As Thomas Jefferson said, "It is the natural progress of things for Government to grow, and Liberty to yield"

Guess what? Republicans will sell your freedoms up the river "to keep you safe". Democrats will sell your freedoms up the river "to help the disadvantaged". Libertarians will do jack-freakin'-nothing, because they comprise a tiny and ineffectual voting block.

If you are concerned about the Government growing out of all bounds, creating databases to track you, and stealing your property, you might want to check out the Free State Project. Guess what -- with a few hundred freedom activists concentrated in the smallish state of New Hampshire, we've already opted out of the Federal "Real-ID" program, put in a Constitutional prohibition on Eminent Domain for private businesses, and elected libertarians to State office.

Imagine what we'll do with a few thousand activists...

One thousand activists have pledged to move by the end of 2008; over 400 of us are already here.

We have Free-Staters elected to the State House, Free-Staters are delegates to both the Republican and Democrat parties (and thus help determine the party platforms), and of course Free-Staters are taking positions in the NH Libertarian Party. We'll be putting up bills to opt out of a slew of Federal mandates in 2008, some of which have a damn good chance of passing.

In 2006 we enacted a Constitutional prohibition against Eminent Domain takings for private business, slashed regulations for home-schooling, ... I could go on...

Enjoy wherever you are, but when you're ready to come to a state where the number of people fighting for freedom is growing fast, come pay us a visit.

Maybe the free state project in New Hampshire is something you'll like : http://www.freestateproject.org./

I think it's in part because tech workers generally are more mobile, partly because NH has a pretty active tech industry (Oracle, BAE systems, Autocad, DynDNS, KBase, yadda, yadda), partly because techies are money-savvy enough to realize that NH's no state income tax and no state sales tax means you recoup your investment of moving costs pretty quickly.

Oh yeah, and because NH opted out of the Federal Real-ID. F--- you, Feds!

As someone who lives in the great state of NH I can easily say: Welcome to NH, b*tch.

Ah, the state for the Free State Project.

Not in New Hampshire

Just one more reason to consider the Free State Project

I couldn't have said it better myself. Then again, actions speak louder than words -- I moved all the way from California to New Hampshire, for similar reasons.

Here in the Free State of New Hampshire, we recently enacted a law banning automated license plate scanning. That, in conjunction with the fact that we just opted out of the Federal Real-ID program (video), makes New Hampshire a pretty good place to go if you're concerned about privacy.

Moving to New Hampshire.

http://www.freestateproject.org/

How to Stage a Coup, American-Style

Yeap, if I could afford it I'd move to New Hampshire to join the Free State Project.

New Hampshire might hold out because they are small enough to get away with no Fed support of their highways and they have alot of "Free Staters"

Yeap, it's the host for the Free State Project.

It is indeed a problem of our government being out of control. But it can be defended against, right now, a lot more easily by just making sure you're not leaving gobs of data behind, than to try to fix the political system on the national level. If you see what's in my sig right now, there's a project afoot to try and work on some of this insanity on the state level, but even that's going to take a lot of time.

Get out while it's still legal to leave. These guys might be able to smuggle your family out. Fair warning, though, the ribs up here are awful - you might hit these folks on your way out.