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A cracking "book" for getting to know Linux in-depth is The Gentoo Linux Handbook - install Linux from scratch, compiling your own complete system. Plus the added benefit of the Lord of All Software Installers - portage :p

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/prelink-howto.xml

A guide for gentoo, but the prelink program should be available for whatever distro you run.

I use a little script I found at the Gentoo forums (end of first post) which opens highlighted text in a new mozilla or firebird-tab.

I've got a keyboard with a lot of extra buttons (of which I use 3) so when I open a URL I only highlight it and press the 'Go'-button (you can map it to any key-combination you want) and it opens in a new tab. Really smooth. So now, when I'm chatting, I'm getting freaked out much quicker.

Not trying to start a flame war or anything, I just thought I'd point these out.

"With Gentoo I'd be afraid to even start installing unless I had another computer open beside the target machine so I could tentatively proceed one step at a time."

That's true, although you don't need another computer. The manual's on the CD, just switch VTs and open it in links.

"After all, it could probably boot into a graphical or menu driven installer just like other dists, but with the difference that it additionally builds some packages instead of copying the binaries."

It's being done: Gentoo Installer Project

Xfree has been officially depreciated on AMD64. If you run Gentoo on AMD64 and decide to install X, X.org is what you'll get.

See for yourself

(And no, I wouldn't have tried to compile software on those boxes. I'd build the system in a chrooted environment on my destop and then tarball the sucker.)

Ever heard of DistCC? It's pretty useful for setting up Gentoo on a low-power system--might be a tad easier than using a chroot.

And I love Gentoo's ``installer'' (and I use that word loosely)--it lets me customise my system more than any other installer, and the documentation is virtually perfect.

Don't tell kormoc (look at the bottom of the first page):

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=4135

Some people...

I migrated from xfree86 to X.org easily following the guide here. Basically, unmerge xfree and xfs, emerge xfs and xorg-x11, and copy XF86config into /etc/xorg.conf

Install from scratch instructions can be found here.

I migrated from xfree86 to X.org easily following the guide here. Basically, unmerge xfree and xfs, emerge xfs and xorg-x11, and copy XF86config into /etc/xorg.conf

Install from scratch instructions can be found here.

Here, I'll fix it. Your post with clickable links:

For a comparison between Grsecurity and SELinux: click here

They also document and explain many of the issues facing the LSM project as well: here

It will be interesting to see how the Gentoo Hardened Project will respond to this as well as they have done a great deal of work with grsecurity and provided some exceptional Grsecurity documentation (for the 1.9.x series).
Hardened Gentoo
Gentoo Grsecurity Guide

It will be sad to see this project fade away, especially for those needing an expressive security RBAC/MAC/PAX system. Grsecurity, combined with PAX, provided a well rounded security system that was sensible, somewhat easy to learn, and easier to administrate thanks to the powerful gradm Learning capability.

Here, I'll fix it. Your post with clickable links:

For a comparison between Grsecurity and SELinux: click here

They also document and explain many of the issues facing the LSM project as well: here

It will be interesting to see how the Gentoo Hardened Project will respond to this as well as they have done a great deal of work with grsecurity and provided some exceptional Grsecurity documentation (for the 1.9.x series).
Hardened Gentoo
Gentoo Grsecurity Guide

It will be sad to see this project fade away, especially for those needing an expressive security RBAC/MAC/PAX system. Grsecurity, combined with PAX, provided a well rounded security system that was sensible, somewhat easy to learn, and easier to administrate thanks to the powerful gradm Learning capability.

First paragraph: VERY imformative. Thanks!

Second paragraph: Gentoo's numbers when compared to Fedora (and Red Hat, as well as most other distros) are very small.

As for the complaining on the Gentoo forums, I checked and found no complaints of this problem. Now, I only checked these three forums, Gentoo Forums, and alt.os.linux.gentoo and linux.gentoo.user (last two being newsgroups).

Only one post of an XP partition being trashed and that was proven to be a configuration error or misuse on the operator's part. Once it was all corrected, it worked as expected with no further corruption.

Third paragraph: I agree with the first sentence, not sure I totally agree with the second. IMHO, the third and fourth sentence have no place in a public forum.

Oh, but then you did post as an Anonymous Coward, didn't you?

David

I have to agree with you there. I love Gentoo, I use it for everything, but it has a long way to go. There are certain bugs that have gone unresolved for months. Portage is wonderful, but it can also be very frustrating. But for absolute control of your system (which is very important when you're doing unusual stuff like I do), nothing beats Gentoo IMO.

Has anyone tried this speedup trick in other distro's? I doubt that it's Gentoo specific:

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=176167

The gist of it is setting an environment var:

export FLASH_GTK_LIBRARY=libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0

People in the Gentoo forum are claming massive speed increases when viewing flash. I'm about to go try it now...

--Ajay

I've found a removal tool for that one: Linux.

My ideal distro would install a huge tarball with all usual stuff (X, KDE, GNOME), plus a system like Portage to update or install new stuff easily. Unfortunately, nothing like this is in sight yet. Gentoo may be a step in the right direction, but their installation procedure is horrible (for newbies). If they streamlined and automated the initial install process, it would be a fairly decent distro.

Today, if you want a freely available desktop-oriented Linux distribution, you have to hunt far and wide. If you looked a week ago, you would have Fedora Core 2, which suffers from this major bug, Mandrake 10 Community - which is a pain to update. Knoppix is good but it's not really meant for installation though it can be done. A quick look on SuSe's downloads page shows that they do offer it free (minus commercial components), but it's either in LiveCD format or has to be installed via FTP.

So, unfortunately today, we don't have the luxury we used to of being able to simply grab the 3 iso's for RedHat and installing them onto our system. Sure we could use Debian, or Gentoo, or even go out on a limb and try FreeBSD - but none of these are desktop-oriented, though you can achieve a nice desktop system if you work at it.

I think that's what he's talking about. :)

Is it any wonder people think Linux users are a bunch of flaming homosexuals when its fronted by obviously gay losers like these?! BSD has a mascot who leaves us in no doubt that this is the OS for real men! If Linux had more hot chicks and gorgeous babes then maybe it would be able to compete with BSD! Hell this girl should be a model!

Linux is a joke as long as it continues to lack sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she excite you? I know this little hottie puts me in need of a cold shower! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little minx. Don't you wish the guy in this pic was you? Are you telling me you wouldn't like to get your hands on this ass?! Wouldn't this just make your Christmas?! Yes doctor, this uber babe definitely gets my pulse racing! Oh how I envy the lucky girl in this shot! Linux has nothing that can possibly compete. Come on, you must admit she is better than an overweight penguin or a gay looking goat! Wouldn't this be more liklely to influence your choice of OS?

With sexy chicks like the lovely Ceren you could have people queuing up to buy open source products. Could you really refuse to buy a copy of BSD if she told you to? Personally I know I would give my right arm to get this close to such a divine beauty!

Don't be a fag! Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today!

$Id: ceren.html,v 7.0 2004/01/01 11:32:04 ceren_rocks Exp $

Is it any wonder people think Linux users are a bunch of flaming homosexuals when its fronted by obviously gay losers like these?! BSD has a mascot who leaves us in no doubt that this is the OS for real men! If Linux had more hot chicks and gorgeous babes then maybe it would be able to compete with BSD! Hell this girl should be a model!

Linux is a joke as long as it continues to lack sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she excite you? I know this little hottie puts me in need of a cold shower! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little minx. Don't you wish the guy in this pic was you? Are you telling me you wouldn't like to get your hands on this ass?! Wouldn't this just make your Christmas?! Yes doctor, this uber babe definitely gets my pulse racing! Oh how I envy the lucky girl in this shot! Linux has nothing that can possibly compete. Come on, you must admit she is better than an overweight penguin or a gay looking goat! Wouldn't this be more liklely to influence your choice of OS?

With sexy chicks like the lovely Ceren you could have people queuing up to buy open source products. Could you really refuse to buy a copy of BSD if she told you to? Personally I know I would give my right arm to get this close to such a divine beauty!

Don't be a fag! Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today!

$Id: ceren.html,v 7.0 2004/01/01 11:32:04 ceren_rocks Exp $

When you're actually installing, it's good to have the full guide handy so that you actually understand what you're doing. Also, if you can use a knoppix CD or something so you can browse the Gentoo help forums, that'll come in handy.

But measure your reaction when you read through the Quick Install guide. If you think "Fun! Command lines" then I figure you should go for it, or "Oh, that doesn't look too hard" means you can probably get by with help from the forums.

If you feel yourself get a wide-eyed "Holy shit!" expression on your face, I'd probably suggest Fedora. But for anyone who can handle the Gentoo install (which isn't that hard if you read the install guide), I find Gentoo preferable.

dd if=/dev/hda2 of=fedora-boot.bin bs=512 count=1

C:\fedora-boot.bin="Fedora Core 2"

Is it any wonder people think Linux users are a bunch of flaming homosexuals when its fronted by obviously gay losers like these?! BSD has a mascot who leaves us in no doubt that this is the OS for real men! If Linux had more hot chicks and gorgeous babes then maybe it would be able to compete with BSD! Hell this girl should be a model!

Linux is a joke as long as it continues to lack sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she excite you? I know this little hottie puts me in need of a cold shower! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little minx. Don't you wish the guy in this pic was you? Are you telling me you wouldn't like to get your hands on this ass?! Wouldn't this just make your Christmas?! Yes doctor, this uber babe definitely gets my pulse racing! Oh how I envy the lucky girl in this shot! Linux has nothing that can possibly compete. Come on, you must admit she is better than an overweight penguin or a gay looking goat! Wouldn't this be more liklely to influence your choice of OS?

With sexy chicks like the lovely Ceren you could have people queuing up to buy open source products. Could you really refuse to buy a copy of BSD if she told you to? Personally I know I would give my right arm to get this close to such a divine beauty!

Don't be a fag! Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today!

$Id: ceren.html,v 7.0 2004/01/01 11:32:04 ceren_rocks Exp $

That all depends how you go about it I guess. When I installed mine two years ago or so, I compiled the whole thing from within Knoppix, where I already had a fully functioning environment. So my weekend wasn't blown, I just kept right on working and installed with emerge nice'd at +5. Same with updates, you barely even notice its running. Except when a package completes and it moves the binaries into place, you hear the disk thrash.

If I was to have to do the whole thing over again today, I'd probably just do a stage 3 install, and upgrade from there. For x86 architecture, you've got the choice of i686, athlon, pentium3, pentium4, or x86 optimized binaries for the stage 3 tarball. What more could you want?

And I totally agree, its not difficult at all, especially after you've been through the procedure once, and see the Quick Install Reference.

Echoing some of the other posts here: It depends what you want to get out of Linux.

If you "just want to use it" (i.e. you just want a nice desktop system that isn't proprietary, or just want to try out some Linux programs) I'd recommend (roughly in order of preference):

1. Knoppix - don't even need to 'install' to try it out
2. SuSe (Or is it SuSE? Or Suse? I can never keep it straight). They've always seemed like a reasonably decent distribution, and now with Novell's apparently-earnest-and-sincere backing, I tend to think of them as "the new Red Hat" (in that they'll be a 'default' distribution in the near future and thus useful to be familiar with).
3. Mandrake - I personally didn't much care for what I saw of Mandrake, but many people do, and this one is often suggested for "newbies".

If, on the other hand, you actually want to learn Linux:

1. Slackware - my personal favorite. It seems to be the most "generic-Unix-like" in general style. I think that although it's fairly "manual" in terms of setup, it's not difficult. But that's my opinion. It's probably the easiest-to-install-and-configure "nerd" distribution.
2. Gentoo - takes forever to install initially, because it actually compiles (most) of itself directly from source. You can configure it for the best compiler optimizations for your hardware and have, theoretically, the fastest-possible system. Maybe a bit of a steep learning curve to start with though - although if you're up for it, it may be worth it.
3. Debian - Possibly one of the most obtuse installation procedures (at least, last time I tried it), but once installed it's amazingly easy to maintain. ("apt-get" really is as cool as they say it is). Debian's one of the "big" famous distributions also, so if you find yourself working with a wide variety of Linux boxen, it's good to be at least a little familiar with it. Debian's other downside (apart from the initial install procedure) from my perspective is that by default their software versions tend to be quite old, though you can get around this by reconfiguring your system to pull updates from the "unstable" and "testing" branches.

Those would be my suggestions, anyway.

Don't listen to him knoppix is the most difficult distro in the world to install. What you want is Gentoo.

On more modest hardware, NetBSD is a lot of fun. See - I even swing both ways. :)

But come to think of it, there are commercial alternatives to Winblows as well: e.g. Mac OS X. A lot of people are discovering that OS X is an industrial strength server O/S that shines very brightly on the desktop too. And Apple hardware is very hard to beat reliability-wise (speaking as someone who's been in charge of Mac studios nearly 20 years).

All we need are some facts to shine through the constant smog of FUD from Redmond and their hirelings. Then the war is won. Can't wait.

dd if=/dev/hda2 of=fedora-boot.bin bs=512 count=1

C:\fedora-boot.bin="Fedora Core 2"

Is it any wonder people think Linux users are a bunch of flaming homosexuals when its fronted by obviously gay losers like these?! BSD has a mascot who leaves us in no doubt that this is the OS for real men! If Linux had more hot chicks and gorgeous babes then maybe it would be able to compete with BSD! Hell this girl should be a model!

Linux is a joke as long as it continues to lack sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she excite you? I know this little hottie puts me in need of a cold shower! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little minx. Don't you wish the guy in this pic was you? Are you telling me you wouldn't like to get your hands on this ass?! Wouldn't this just make your Christmas?! Yes doctor, this uber babe definitely gets my pulse racing! Oh how I envy the lucky girl in this shot! Linux has nothing that can possibly compete. Come on, you must admit she is better than an overweight penguin or a gay looking goat! Wouldn't this be more liklely to influence your choice of OS?

With sexy chicks like the lovely Ceren you could have people queuing up to buy open source products. Could you really refuse to buy a copy of BSD if she told you to? Personally I know I would give my right arm to get this close to such a divine beauty!

Don't be a fag! Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today!

$Id: ceren.html,v 7.0 2004/01/01 11:32:04 ceren_rocks Exp $

Is it any wonder people think Linux users are a bunch of flaming homosexuals when its fronted by obviously gay losers like these?! BSD has a mascot who leaves us in no doubt that this is the OS for real men! If Linux had more hot chicks and gorgeous babes then maybe it would be able to compete with BSD! Hell this girl should be a model!

Linux is a joke as long as it continues to lack sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she excite you? I know this little hottie puts me in need of a cold shower! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little minx. Don't you wish the guy in this pic was you? Are you telling me you wouldn't like to get your hands on this ass?! Wouldn't this just make your Christmas?! Yes doctor, this uber babe definitely gets my pulse racing! Oh how I envy the lucky girl in this shot! Linux has nothing that can possibly compete. Come on, you must admit she is better than an overweight penguin or a gay looking goat! Wouldn't this be more liklely to influence your choice of OS?

With sexy chicks like the lovely Ceren you could have people queuing up to buy open source products. Could you really refuse to buy a copy of BSD if she told you to? Personally I know I would give my right arm to get this close to such a divine beauty!

Don't be a fag! Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today!

$Id: ceren.html,v 7.0 2004/01/01 11:32:04 ceren_rocks Exp $

Arch Linux is a disto with a very good package management system. Kind of like the Gentoo portage, but binary based instead of source based.

And the gentoo bug report for subversion. subversion 1.0.3 has the fix and is in portage (marked stable on x86). subversion 1.0.4 is the newer version and is not yet in portage.

And the gentoo bug report for subversion. subversion 1.0.3 has the fix and is in portage (marked stable on x86). subversion 1.0.4 is the newer version and is not yet in portage.

emerge sync
emerge cvs

gentoo: cvs and subversion
It is not mentioned on glsa up to now, however.

gentoo: cvs and subversion
It is not mentioned on glsa up to now, however.

I sincerely hope not. :-D

I believe what you're looking for can be found here. ;-)

You'll love it!

This is a UK Degree: a Bachelor of Art. What you may read between the lines is very limited.

It's common for UK Uni's to share modules between degree courses. The obvious parallel is a BSc (Bachelor of Science) and because this BA is in a scientific subject it's a possibility that this is the case.

I sit next to someone with a BA in CS who's on his first year of a Distributed Computing PhD, he also helped me through my first stage 1 Gentoo build and is a more than competent coder, so like I say, there's not much you can infer here, and to call it a Bullshit Degree is a mistake.

Your problem Seems to be that you're using Fedora Core, never have gotten that to work reliably at all. Hav had catascrophic failures, loss of filesystem, authentication system failed, system hust. . I dunno . .died. Don't like linux problems, bugs switch to debian, slaskware, try Mandrake, or gentoo. Those are good distributions. The major, system wide problems caused by non-interoperability could be fixed if there were a OS-wide consortium of accepted standards. The reason this doesn't exist is because it would remove choice from the operating system, it's primary strength. Choice is the free market economy based on quality. although encouraging developers to write inter-operable software would definitely be a positive thing in my eyes.

btw: Kudzu should be replaced with hotplug asp.

also: when windows XP just "works" I'll switch back... My initial installation routine of Windows XP includes, but is not limited to: manually creating a non-administrative user, removing most of the active services, instaling sygate personal firewall, installing panda-softs anti-virus software, disabling sytem resore, patching, service-packing, removing animation and windoing special affects, installing 3rd party graphics drivers, troubleshoot wifi (unless it's it's intel, cisco, major company), install various other cracks and patches that allow me to uninstall windows somponents like msn explorer and msn messenger, just to name a few. ther's quite a bit more, but my fingers are tired. I do have to do most of these things with red-hat, but then, I use gentoo linux which allows me to select these thiings at install time. Also take into acocunt that after you configured your wifi, it thereafter worked. Also, it's doubtful that you installed sonn after that, which is why it's not really a big deal to invest a day into installing a source-based distribution, it'll last long enough to make the install worthwhile. Don't know how long it will take me to get used to not reinstalling before a LAN Party, I just don't know. </rant></plug type='shameless" url="gentoo.org"> that said, the linux desktop is not for everyone, but it's far closer that you seem to have experienced.

I noticed that previous versions of Fedora Core were available for the x86_64 architecture, but all the links that I have seen are for i386. Anyone have a torrent for the x86_64 arch, or an estimated release date? Then the only thing I'll be waiting for are the ATI x86_64 drivers.

Gentoo is true to the spirit of free software ("use the source, dude!") and updating/upgrading is so easy:

emerge sync; emerge -UD world.

Give it a spin. You'll love it!

Is it any wonder people think Linux users are a bunch of flaming homosexuals when its fronted by obviously gay losers like these?! BSD has a mascot who leaves us in no doubt that this is the OS for real men! If Linux had more hot chicks and gorgeous babes then maybe it would be able to compete with BSD! Hell this girl should be a model!

Linux is a joke as long as it continues to lack sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she excite you? I know this little hottie puts me in need of a cold shower! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little minx. Don't you wish the guy in this pic was you? Are you telling me you wouldn't like to get your hands on this ass?! Wouldn't this just make your Christmas?! Yes doctor, this uber babe definitely gets my pulse racing! Oh how I envy the lucky girl in this shot! Linux has nothing that can possibly compete. Come on, you must admit she is better than an overweight penguin or a gay looking goat! Wouldn't this be more liklely to influence your choice of OS?

With sexy chicks like the lovely Ceren you could have people queuing up to buy open source products. Could you really refuse to buy a copy of BSD if she told you to? Personally I know I would give my right arm to get this close to such a divine beauty!

Don't be a fag! Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today!

$Id: ceren.html,v 7.0 2004/01/01 11:32:04 ceren_rocks Exp $

Is it any wonder people think Linux users are a bunch of flaming homosexuals when its fronted by obviously gay losers like these?! BSD has a mascot who leaves us in no doubt that this is the OS for real men! If Linux had more hot chicks and gorgeous babes then maybe it would be able to compete with BSD! Hell this girl should be a model!

Linux is a joke as long as it continues to lack sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she excite you? I know this little hottie puts me in need of a cold shower! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little minx. Don't you wish the guy in this pic was you? Are you telling me you wouldn't like to get your hands on this ass?! Wouldn't this just make your Christmas?! Yes doctor, this uber babe definitely gets my pulse racing! Oh how I envy the lucky girl in this shot! Linux has nothing that can possibly compete. Come on, you must admit she is better than an overweight penguin or a gay looking goat! Wouldn't this be more liklely to influence your choice of OS?

With sexy chicks like the lovely Ceren you could have people queuing up to buy open source products. Could you really refuse to buy a copy of BSD if she told you to? Personally I know I would give my right arm to get this close to such a divine beauty!

Don't be a fag! Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today!

$Id: ceren.html,v 7.0 2004/01/01 11:32:04 ceren_rocks Exp $

Look at this screenshot, and this video. He is only playing with shaped windows but you can see through them.

Look at this screenshot, and this video. He is only playing with shaped windows but you can see through them.

"...yet _none_ of them release any concrete benchmarks."

"What is the point in running the very first release of KDE?"

"Yet they forget that a company like Red Hat has about 5 or 6 of the _top_ kernel developers working..."

Have you tried copying a file from your reiserfs partition to another partition running ext2/3? I hear that causes a kernel panic.

It could be that the bug appears rarely. I have also heard that many people have been using reiserfs without problems. Maybe they fixed the bug. Or maybe it is just rare.

I used to run reiserfs on x86 - once it gains a reputation for stability on amd64 I'd probably consider switching back. Moderate performance gains aren't worth the risk of a hosed filesystem for me, so I'd rather not be on bleeding-edge here...

I've been using my Toshiba Tecra 8000 with suspend-to-ram (S3) under Gentoo for months. It was difficult at first to get it to work, but after scripting the acpi myself, it has consistently worked. Right now I have it resuming via the power key. You can find all sorts of great hints for using ACPI/Sleep modes via the gentoo forums, even if you aren't using gentoo, the acpi script examples there are nice.

It's not hard to get used to Linux, especially if you bite the bullet and just use something like KDE.

Wine works for most simplistic University-style programs.

And I've seen tests where WinXP outperforms 98 on older machines -- but if you were that concerned about performance, you'd install gentoo anyway. And WinXP lets you protect local files.

98 wont't do it. Ever. Security in Win98 is even more of an oxymoron than Compassionate Conservative.

Two words: key logger. Or if you use a USB keychain, key logger and packet sniffer (or some local equivalent).

Or, if you know Linux but they don't, use knoppix or something similar. That's something you know is safe.

Is it any wonder people think Linux users are a bunch of flaming homosexuals when its fronted by obviously gay losers like these?! BSD has a mascot who leaves us in no doubt that this is the OS for real men! If Linux had more hot chicks and gorgeous babes then maybe it would be able to compete with BSD! Hell this girl should be a model!

Linux is a joke as long as it continues to lack sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she excite you? I know this little hottie puts me in need of a cold shower! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little minx. Don't you wish the guy in this pic was you? Are you telling me you wouldn't like to get your hands on this ass?! Wouldn't this just make your Christmas?! Yes doctor, this uber babe definitely gets my pulse racing! Oh how I envy the lucky girl in this shot! Linux has nothing that can possibly compete. Come on, you must admit she is better than an overweight penguin or a gay looking goat! Wouldn't this be more liklely to influence your choice of OS?

With sexy chicks like the lovely Ceren you could have people queuing up to buy open source products. Could you really refuse to buy a copy of BSD if she told you to? Personally I know I would give my right arm to get this close to such a divine beauty!

Don't be a fag! Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today!

$Id: ceren.html,v 7.0 2004/01/01 11:32:04 ceren_rocks Exp $