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Berners-Lee on the TLD Explosion

kmccammon writes "Tim Berners-Lee recently released a white paper outlining a number of justifications for stalling (at least temporarily) the expansion of the top-level domains. Among the reasons cited: bad economics. As evidenced by the .biz and .info debacle, more top-levels does not necessarily mean more domain name availability. All it really means is that every .com/.net owner now needs to rush out and buy the same name under each new TLD. Thus, the 'value of one's original registration drops. At the same time, the cost of protecting one's brand goes up.'"

303 comments

  1. But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I want to register microsoft.sucks

    1. Re:But... by Pxtl · · Score: 1

      Screw it. Just set up a server system for a ".x" and revise the dns standard such that any requests for servers with undefined TLDs get .x appended to the end. Then require that all .x domain names have at least 4 characters. There. So I register foobar.x, and thus can sell "mywebsite.foobar" sites to people. Then, just don't make TLD's with over 3 characters, and the "true" TLD namespace is preserved and protected from the "x" namespace. The only exception would be .info.

  2. DOes a domain name owner... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...automatically get first crack at the new TLD's similar to their .com or whatever?

    1. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      No more than they get first crack at similar TLDs in .net or .org.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    2. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by SoTuA · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Maybe. Here in Chile, the ruling entity on the .cl domain usually turns down applications to register www.cocacola.cl or www.mcdonalds.cl if you aren't Coke or McD's. That happened after some squatter went out and registered a bunch of stuff like luckystrike.cl, for example. The cost of contesting all those registrations made it worthwhile to do a bit of "research" before granting domains.

    3. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Stupid question. Obvious desperate attempt at a first post.

    4. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by TerminalInsanity · · Score: 1

      Yes and no.

      No, they probably wont put a waiting period for any .com owners to register the new .tld with the same name,
      Yes, the lawyers could probably take the matching .tld from anyone

    5. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      SO then I will assume the wanted names, such as microsoft.biz (or whatever) are either snapped up by folks who are damn good at gettting them, or bought from whomever registers them. Seems stupid. Incidentally, could one patent their domain name, preventing others from taking it upon expiration etc?

    6. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not that I should feed but:
      If I don't know something, then ask about it, how is that stupid?

    7. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by Frizzle+Fry · · Score: 1

      I believe that the registrar for a domain can set the rules. If the company in charge of the new TLD wants to give first crack to whoever owns the equivalent .com, they are free to do so. If they want to make it first-come-first-serve, they can do that as well.

      --
      I'd rather be lucky than good.
    8. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh sure, that way we can ensure that no one infinges on the valuable goatse brand in the new TLDs.

    9. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that the domain organisation is completely useles and brings only a mess:

      microsoft.com
      www.microsoft.com
      microsoft.net
      www.microsoft.net
      microsoft.co.uk
      www.microsoft .co.uk

      (not speaking about othed domains) all moreless pointing to the same resource.

      The only useful domain is a country domain - but not because of naming orientation, but to split registration process to different authorities where different trademark law applies. Afrerward you can regisrer a site or a group of sites like *.mysite.us (and do whatever you please with it) if the name is free and not trademarked or the trademark belongs to you.

      stupid www.

    10. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by I_Love_Pocky! · · Score: 1

      Umm... you don't have to register www unless you want www.com or www.org or something. That is a sub domain of the domain you have already registered (i.e. microsoft.com).

    11. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because if you bothered to read the information that was already available, you wouldn't need to ask. There's a reason why people say RTFA around here so often.

    12. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by AndroidCat · · Score: 1

      I wonder if some registrar is making a killing "registering" sub-domains?

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    13. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by MntlChaos · · Score: 1

      the person owning the higher-level domain has the rights to domains below it. i.e. microsoft has rights to anything such as foo.microsoft.com, etc. None of the public registrars have rights to sell those

    14. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by JPriest · · Score: 1

      Maybe if the name of the TLD is trademarked by the .com owner.
      If I owned download.cl I am pretty sure download.com would not be able to get it taken from me.

      --
      Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
    15. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by idesofmarch · · Score: 1

      New.net does this, however I do not know if they are making a killing.

    16. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by miu · · Score: 1
      the person owning the higher-level domain has the rights to domains below it.

      According to the original DNS design you are correct, but there are probably quite a few domain holders who let their registrar manage their DNS. In a situation like that I can easily see a registrar charging you for sub-domains.

      The problem with IP based technology is that it is too simple, it is too easy for a subscriber to ignore the expensive value added portions of service offerings and roll their own, expect service providers to attempt to change this at every chance.

      --

      [Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
    17. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by AhBeeDoi · · Score: 1

      Somebody has a patent on fourth level domain names. Truly stranger than fiction.

    18. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by AndroidCat · · Score: 1
      I know that, you know that. But when Joe registers joesixpack.com, and the guy asked him "You'll want a web site, so do you want to register www.joesixpack.com as well?", does Joe know that?

      Don't laugh. There are people dumb enough to buy domains on alternate DNS scams.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    19. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by AndroidCat · · Score: 2

      It was on their method of mapping email addresses to domains for web pages. e.g. joesixpack.example.com and joesixpack@example.com. Trivial, obvious and loads of prior art, but at least they dressed it up a little bit.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    20. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by Captain+Reboot · · Score: 1

      One could always debate the domain name as a trademark and take it to wipo which would then have a trial for who is rightfully entitled for the domain name. Although that process costs quite a bit of money for both the prosecuting and defending parties. Once wipo has a verdict the domain will go to the winning person.

    21. Re:DOes a domain name owner... by ron_ivi · · Score: 1
      I would hope not. This would make the new domains quite worthless.

      It seems to me the biggest benefit is if my well-known organization who's acronym was "XYZ" could get XYZ.newdomain instead of the current lesser-known organization who has XYZ.com

  3. There are only a few that matter by MacFury · · Score: 5, Insightful

    .com .net and .org are really all that matter. The average joe equates .com with the internet.

    1. Re:There are only a few that matter by surreal-maitland · · Score: 2, Insightful

      and don't forget .edu . . .

      --
      -ninjaneer
    2. Re:There are only a few that matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is why top level domains should be removed altogether. Is it really useful to allow both a sony.com, and a sony.org? It just adds confusion that isn't necessary.

    3. Re:There are only a few that matter by Carnildo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I like .arpa

      I actually saw one of those in my referrer logs once.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    4. Re:There are only a few that matter by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      The common joe doesn't care about higher education- and thus never visits .edu domains.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    5. Re:There are only a few that matter by Ianoo · · Score: 1

      That's not a real domain name, it's mostly used for reverse DNS lookups.

    6. Re:There are only a few that matter by Chess_the_cat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But why does Sony want sony.org? .org was supposed to designate a not-for-profit group. Seems to me that if registrars only registered domains as per the orginal vision: .com for commercial, .org for not-for-profit, .net for network admin, etc. everything would work out pretty well.

      --
      Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
    7. Re:There are only a few that matter by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Then you obviously haven't noticed that the average American has an IQ less than 110. (see definition of IQ for proof). The grand majority of people on this planet don't have the brains to go to any sort of continuing education.

      Of course- looking at the truth rationally is beyond even the smart people most of the time- so feel free to hate me for this statement as much as you want.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    8. Re:There are only a few that matter by Cooke · · Score: 1

      ok say you scrap all TLD then how many domains would exist? say the maximum domain has a length of 10 characters. Then there are 26 characters in the english language. That would only allow 26! domains = 403291461126605635584000000 So how many of these are junk? how many are corherent? and how many are 'snappy'? How many domains are even needed?

    9. Re:There are only a few that matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The average American has also had at least one year of college. You don't need an IQ as high as mine (135) to continue your education. Plenty of people with an IQ below are perfectly capable of broadening their minds. In fact, I would suggest that an academically ambitious person with an IQ score of 95 is likely to learn a lot more in their lifetime than a lazy slug who belongs to MENSA but spends all his time playing D&D and chatting on Slashdot. Er... speaking of which... I should move on now.

    10. Re:There are only a few that matter by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Why? It's not like it's actually in their comprehension skills to understand it- and places like howstuffworks.com do a better job of distilling the knowledge down into 8th-grade reading skills anyway.

      The "common joe" isn't curious- if the information happens to come to him through a TV show, he MIGHT research it, but he'll get most of his information from the company making the product, not from some academic white paper on the subject that uses words and concepts unfamiliar to anything he can relate to "real life". We're talking lowest common denominator here- which is a heck of a lot lower than what most .edu web pages are about.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    11. Re:There are only a few that matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I've seen those.. they must be due to misconfigured DNS servers! The admins don't realize how in-addr.arpa works.

      When you look up the IP address of foo.com, you are looking up the right-hand side of the A record for foo.com, which is usually an address (12.23.34.45 for instance).

      When you look up 12.23.34.45, you are looking up the right-hand sid of the PTR record for 45.34.23.12.in-addr.arpa (which should be foo.com).

      I can't figure out how an in-addr.arpa record ends up on the right-hand side! I'm sure Windows is involved though..........

    12. Re:There are only a few that matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Bullshit. The average AMERICAN Joe equates .com with the internet, perhaps. In practically every other country on the planet domains on cc-tld's are in common use, and often including cc-tld's for neighbouring countries or countries with the same languages.

      And face it, Americans doesn't make up nearly the majority of internet users any more.

    13. Re:There are only a few that matter by justforaday · · Score: 2, Funny

      .com .net and .org are really all that matter.

      yeah, we don't need those silly .edu, .gov, and .mil ones either. after all, what have they ever done for the internet?

      --
      I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
    14. Re:There are only a few that matter by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Lazyness certainly plays into it also- If you're not overly curious you can actually live most of your life past age 21 without ever hitting a .edu site anymore.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    15. Re:There are only a few that matter by alphaseven · · Score: 1

      Interesting, there are only a couple sites that end in .arpa listed by google, and they're both down.

    16. Re:There are only a few that matter by DrEldarion · · Score: 4, Funny

      Don't forget .gov. People who mix up whitehouse.gov with whitehouse.com are in for quite a surprise.

    17. Re:There are only a few that matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey right on, by the way, Bush graduated from Yale and his IQ is surely below 110 (my guess would be about 85). I mean I realize that perhaps his family's influence may have gotten him a degree, but I'm sure he at least knows how to read at a third grade level (more than enough to get a college degree these days).

    18. Re:There are only a few that matter by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sony wants to own sony.org so that no not-for-profit group can spring up and name themselves Sony... because the Sony company wants to own that four letter combination outright. They're scared of a non-profit cause springing up at that domain.

      Amazon.com I bet is wishing they had grabbed Amazon.org back in the early days. Not that the Amazon.org group is unacceptable to a large number of people, but I'm sure you can find a few people who are offended by them... and that soils the "Amazon" word on the Internet. You get the idea, anything that can cost sales is something a business doesn't want to see happen.

    19. Re:There are only a few that matter by scotch · · Score: 0, Troll
      Definitely. Why should Tim Barnards Lee get to com along and fuck up the intranet with all these new domain names? Am I the only one that thinks if .com was good enough for our parents, it should be good enough for us? Even microsoft has settled on either .com or they're new standard .NET. All these other new domains. like .biz and .info and google.com are just johney come lateley that missed the internet revolution and are now trying to caching in on some of the dot com paradigm. I don't know who this Tim B. Lee kid is, coming in and trying to change our internet with his new email schemes and web addresses. I'm all for freedom, but this character should be banned from the intranet.

      --
      XML causes global warming.
    20. Re:There are only a few that matter by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      Whitehouse.org is the best of the bunch.

      -B

    21. Re:There are only a few that matter by DrPascal · · Score: 1

      26! domains implies that 26 is the maximum character length, and that there are 26 non-repeating choices to pick from. Please recheck your math. Even though there are longer than 10 letter domains, the answer you're searching for is closer to 26^10.

      --
      DrPascal: Not the language, the mathematician.
    22. Re:There are only a few that matter by dinaui · · Score: 1

      say the maximum domain has a length of 10 characters. Then there are 26 characters in the english language. That would only allow 26! domains = 403291461126605635584000000

      Your calculation is wrong. Given a maximum length of 10 characters, a minimum length of 1 character, and 26 available characters, you would get 26^10 + 26^9 + ... + 26^1 = (26^11 - 26^1) / (26 - 1) = 146813779479510 domains.

    23. Re:There are only a few that matter by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Which- to relate it back to the original topic, as in the importance of .edu as a top level domain- is information that can be found just as easily at ESPN.com. So it's hardly UNIQUE, now is it? Anything important will eventually be picked up by some news channel or for-profit company someplace. The real importance of .edu is in the fact that it is the original ARPAnet- the original reason the internet was invented- to allow the smart people to talk to each other. .edu's importance to the web is minimal at best.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    24. Re:There are only a few that matter by Cooke · · Score: 1

      yeah your right, opps my bad Anyway the point remains. Is this enough? and how many are needed?

    25. Re:There are only a few that matter by WWWWolf · · Score: 1
      .org was supposed to designate a not-for-profit group.

      Actually, strictly speaking, .org isn't "non-profit", it's "everyone else", as in "everyone who isn't a company, network operator, government site, military, or like." Which usually just happens to leave there non-profit organizations and private individuals.

    26. Re:There are only a few that matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You get the idea, anything that can cost sales is something a business doesn't want to see happen.

      Real question is, though, does majority of PEOPLE want that or not. Corporations (should) have no direct political power. Voters do. And as representatives of voters, elected officials should be able to decide the matter, after hearing affected parties.

      I, personally, think it's misleading and almost fraudulent that a company is using .org domain name; since it implies an organization, usually non-profit one. Thus, in case there is a legitimate reason an organization wants, say, Amazon.org, coke.org, windows.org, apple.org or sun.org, I don't see why a corporation should have the first pick. For .com and .biz and whatever would be deemed to be "commerical" TLDs reverse would apply.

    27. Re:There are only a few that matter by nomadic · · Score: 1

      Don't forget .uk. Let'em invent their own internet if they want one so bad.

    28. Re:There are only a few that matter by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 0

      At least I can talk about it without needing to be flamebait or post AC. It's quite obvious that I have a point- or you wouldn't keep trying to put it down.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    29. Re:There are only a few that matter by rastachops · · Score: 1

      I don't know who this Tim B. Lee kid is
      Well you might as well stop ranting then. He invented the internet as we know it. Duh.

    30. Re:There are only a few that matter by cpghost · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sorry to nitpick here: Tim B. Lee didn't invent the internet, he invented the WWW, which is just one of many "layer 7" applications that run on top of the TCP/IP internet protocols. The Internet (and DNS) existed long before the WWW.

      --
      cpghost at Cordula's Web.
    31. Re:There are only a few that matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it doesn't have a maximum length of ten characters. For instance, I have gridoverwatchdivision.net registered, which is twenty-one characters before the TLD. That's a fair number of domains.

    32. Re:There are only a few that matter by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      In fact, I would suggest that an academically ambitious person with an IQ score of 95 is likely to learn a lot more in their lifetime than a lazy slug who belongs to MENSA but spends all his time playing D&D and chatting on Slashdot

      Hey what did I ever do to you, quit picking on me. oh wait.......

      Mycroft

      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
    33. Re:There are only a few that matter by trentblase · · Score: 1

      In all fairness to the grandparent poster, to the average internet user, www is all there is to "the internet as we know it"

    34. Re:There are only a few that matter by cgenman · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't forget .gov. People who mix up whitehouse.gov with whitehouse.com are in for quite a surprise.

      Yeah, one prints made-up stories, the other is a... Jesus Christ! I thought you said whitehouse.org! Oh my eyes! My pure Christian Eyes!

    35. Re:There are only a few that matter by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      Then there are 26 characters in the english language. That would only allow 26! domains

      There are at least 200 characters in the English language. Upper, lower case, punctuation, accented letters, figures. But for domain names case isn't distinguished, accents aren't allowed (yet) and the only punctuation allowed is the hyphen. So that's {a-z, -, 0-9} = 37. Unicode is soon to make this several thousand, but we'll ignore that for now. Also I have no idea why you use factorial (implying each character can only be used once) it should be simply a power, and thus to a length of 26.

    36. Re:There are only a few that matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps he's just another average internet user.

    37. Re:There are only a few that matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amazon.org

      What a lame site!
      It claims to be about lesbians, but there's no pr0n anywhere, not so much as a boobie.

    38. Re:There are only a few that matter by pilanian · · Score: 1

      > .com .net and .org are really all that matter.

      This is due to history -- Internet originated in US and people in USA are used to NOT adding .us for their domains. This genie is difficult to put back in the bottle even though .us exists. When country TLDs came into being, .us was added for USA for consistency. However, .com, .edu, .org, .net and .gov continued (and even though these were by implication for USA, they became worldwide).

      For decentralization, country level TLDs are fine. AFAIK, trade mark rules are for country-specific and need to be registered in each of them.

      So, IBM in USA should be ibm.com.us, IBM in UK is ibm.co.uk, IBM in India is ibm.co.in, IBM in Poland is ibm.com.pl etc.

      --
      -- Raj
    39. Re:There are only a few that matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That post was obviously a joke.
      Get a clue.

    40. Re:There are only a few that matter by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      30 years of alcoholism will do that to you.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    41. Re:There are only a few that matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's quite obvious that you don't have a "post" because it is still shoved up your Momma's ass.

  4. I'm sorry... by ericspinder · · Score: 3, Insightful

    but I don't believe that one needs to snap up every version of domains saying apple, home, or even localhost. More TDL's give more people the right to a short easy to remember name.

    --
    The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
    1. Re:I'm sorry... by Carnildo · · Score: 4, Insightful
      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    2. Re:I'm sorry... by CaseyB · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Since when is TBL's goal for the web to maximize the corporate value of brand names?

    3. Re:I'm sorry... by Scott+Robinson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Each of which is a different website. This just supports the parent's statement.

      What was your point?

    4. Re:I'm sorry... by Pentagram · · Score: 1

      I disagree. The extra TLDs make it harder to remember addresses because you have to remember the TLD as well as the name. It just allows for more confusion and bickering. If I was ruler of the world (or designing the net from scratch) I'd have them removed entirely. Wouldn't it be more elegant if you could just use, say, slashdot to refer to a domain?

      If people wanted easy to remember names, they would just have to exercise some ingenuity (hey, you could always register your domain as slashdotdotorg).

    5. Re:I'm sorry... by jdunlevy · · Score: 1

      More TLDs (if they're arbitrary and too many to remember) just makes the short, otherwise easy-to-remember names harder to remember.

    6. Re:I'm sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, maybe that's because it should have been whitehouse.gov, eh?

    7. Re:I'm sorry... by SnappleMaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      DNS needs a hierarchical name structure so that the data can be delegated in a what that keeps load somewhat manageable.

      A flat namespace would be pretty much impossible unless you did something very different. But it you could easily dream up ways to make it work, e.g. you could run some arbitrary hash function over a flat name to assign it to a "TLD" for resolution purposes.

      --
      Be happy. Nothing else matters.
    8. Re:I'm sorry... by mangu · · Score: 1
      A flat namespace would be pretty much impossible unless you did something very different.


      In what way does a system that has almost every name under the .com TLD and most of the others under the .net domain differ from a flat namespace?

    9. Re:I'm sorry... by SnappleMaster · · Score: 1

      You may have a point there, but at least today we have some level of delegation.

      I googled but I could not find any data on the size of com versus the size of the other TLDs. Got any references?

      --
      Be happy. Nothing else matters.
    10. Re:I'm sorry... by ericspinder · · Score: 1
      Lets be unreasonable and take your idea to the extreme (I know that's unheard of in this fine forum, but bear with me)...

      Why do people even have last names, from now on every one should have the "family name" of "Sol", its short and easy to remember. Also under this naming scheme only one person can have any given name. (Let's say) Your current name is John, someone else is using John Sol and since he doesn't like people to confuse him with anyone else he also takes JohnS Sol, Jim Sol, Johnny Sol, Jimmy Sol; Since you were a little late, how about John_is_my_name-don't-wear-it-out Sol, that's a nice easy to remember name.

      Or why do we still have area and exchange codes with our telephone numbers. Let's have one long 10 digit string that can completely change from person to person, that's ok because they all have three ones ('111') at the end of the number, just to make it easy to remember.

      --
      The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
    11. Re:I'm sorry... by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      My point is they dilute the "whitehouse" brand, and confuse people. Which of the four "whitehouse" sites is the President's page, which one is the porn site, which one is the parody, and which one is the political site?

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    12. Re:I'm sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      which one is the porn site, which one is the parody, and which one is the political site?
      I know this guy in Nigeria who is looking for someone just like you, to help him recover some money, just send your checking account number to 419.scam@I_am_too_stupid_to_be_on_the_internet.com (see even a 'proper' dot com address so, that it is easy to remember!).
    13. Re:I'm sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since never. It's always been to put money in the registrar's pockets.

    14. Re:I'm sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And which is the fourth site?

    15. Re:I'm sorry... by kubrick · · Score: 1

      Which of the four "whitehouse" sites is the President's page... which one is the parody, and which one is the political site?

      Like there's a difference.

      --
      deus does not exist but if he does
  5. Relative failure of new TLD's by leitec · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've found that the vast majority of sites using new, alternative domain names are pure garbage. Most are sketchy e-commerce stores with terrible domain names and even worse web design; in other words, I'd never, ever buy from them. Some .info sites worked out well (z80.info, for example), but .biz and the like is bad FrontPage heaven. Some of the national TLD's have found good non-commercial use, like the many personal .nu sites out there, but again, the level of trust goes down with a commercial site under these domains. Has anyone observed anything similar?

    1. Re:Relative failure of new TLD's by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 5, Insightful

      All mail from .biz domains goes straight into the dumpster 'round here.

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    2. Re:Relative failure of new TLD's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      LOL? Fuck off... Saying shit like that makes me want to kick your mom in the nuts.

    3. Re:Relative failure of new TLD's by toasted_calamari · · Score: 1

      I've noticed the same thing, I have yet to see anything good from a .ws

    4. Re:Relative failure of new TLD's by Jugalator · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      kick your mom in the nuts

      That was more funny than trollish to me actually. :-)

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    5. Re:Relative failure of new TLD's by Sludge · · Score: 1

      Gamesindustry.biz is actually a good site.

    6. Re:Relative failure of new TLD's by FuzzyDaddy · · Score: 1

      My SpamBayes filter tells me I've received 129 emails with a .biz url in the message. Every single one was spam.

      --
      It's not wasting time, I'm educating myself.
    7. Re:Relative failure of new TLD's by Herkum01 · · Score: 1

      Talk about a catch-22. Alternate domains cannot get any official recognition so only those shady companies get a URL with them. Because they only get shady companies working with them, noone wants to recognize them in a more official capacity! That just sucks and I call BS.

      .COM, .NET, and .ORG are most recognized because they are the easiest to get started with and everyone remembers those three. If you do not let someone else have a legitmate interest in starting a officially recognized TDL, it is just a naming monopoly and noone can generate an official recognition. It is the same argument people use when you try to convince people to use Linux and it is just silly.

  6. Use IP Addressing again? by beatleadam · · Score: 3, Funny

    Screw it all...I want my IP Address to be used again!

    If you want to find me I can be reached at 127.0.0.1 - How is that for "protecting my brand" ?

    --
    I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. -- Hunter S. Thompson
    1. Re:Use IP Addressing again? by nightsweat · · Score: 2

      It's coming from inside the house!!!

      --

      the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
    2. Re:Use IP Addressing again? by Kaimelar · · Score: 4, Funny
      If you want to find me I can be reached at 127.0.0.1 - How is that for "protecting my brand" ?

      Wait, 127.0.0.1 points to my machine! You're not protecting your brand, you're trying to hijack mine! Just wait until my lawyer hears about this! ;-)

    3. Re:Use IP Addressing again? by Ianoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      1. Take a web address (e.g. http://www.slashdot.org/)
      2. Look up the IP address (e.g. 66.35.250.151)
      3. Convert to Hex (42.23.FA.97)
      4. Concatenate (4223FA97)
      5. Convert resultant integer to decimal (1109654167)
      6. Go to http://1109654167/ in Mozilla

      Voila. This only works if virtual hosting isn't being used, and doesn't work in IE. Google is on http://3639556963/, useful if your DNS servers go down.

    4. Re:Use IP Addressing again? by aoteoroa · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wait, 127.0.0.1 points to my machine! You're not protecting your brand, you're trying to hijack mine! Just wait until my lawyer hears about this! ;-)

      And by posting your address on Slashdot the GP poster is probably planning to DDOS your connection.

      You should install An Anti-DoS Tool That Returns Fire that will automatically launch a counter attack for you.

    5. Re:Use IP Addressing again? by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 3, Funny

      Umm.. they is it 'useful if your DNS servers go down'.

      I'd stop at step 2. Steps 3,4,5 an 6 are just wasting good drinking time.

      The only IP you really need of course is the one your DNS server is on - so you can bring it back up again :)

    6. Re:Use IP Addressing again? by scrytch · · Score: 1

      > This only works if virtual hosting isn't being used

      No IP address does.

      > and doesn't work in IE

      It used to. They turned off this feature after seeing that no one but spammers used it.

      --
      I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
    7. Re:Use IP Addressing again? by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      I think IE took this feature out, because calling a site "http://1109654167/" was an address scheme that nobody in their right mind was using, except for spammers and other undesirables who were trying to run around blockers based on hostnames and IP addresses.

      Afterall, dotted-quad is good enough to reach a site by IP address... so other ways to express an IP are just redundant.

    8. Re:Use IP Addressing again? by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 1
      Besides A.B.C.D where A, B, C, and D are decimal octets, and A, where A is a decimal 32-bit value, there are two more decimal forms for IP addresses that work: A.B where A and B are 16-bit decimal numbers, and, A.B where A is 8-bit and B is 24-bit.

      That last one is interesting. Suppose you live in Seattle (area code 206). If you could get IP address 206.A.B.C, and then write it in the 8-bit.24-bit form, for appropriate A, B, and C, the 24-bit part will have 7 decimal digits, and you can write your IP address as 206.NNNNNNN.

      Now go out and get NNNNNNN as your phone number, and then you can put on your business card:

      Phone and IP: 206.NNNNNNN

      and impress the geeks.

    9. Re:Use IP Addressing again? by timothv · · Score: 1

      It works in IE 6 here, XP home SP1 + all IE patches.

    10. Re:Use IP Addressing again? by Piquan · · Score: 1

      I thought about this for a moment, and realized I live in area code 408. Bummer. Come to think of it, Silicon Valley just can't use this: our A/Cs are 408, 650, and 415.

      Cool idea, though.

    11. Re:Use IP Addressing again? by mcc · · Score: 1

      Now that's market penetration

    12. Re:Use IP Addressing again? by mindstrm · · Score: 1

      IE removed this because only spammers used it.

      Most other systems support using unsigned 32 bit integers in the place of an IP address.. after all,l that's what an IP address is. The dotted-quad notation is for human benefit, not computer.

      Some systems support octal notation too.

    13. Re:Use IP Addressing again? by mindstrm · · Score: 1

      I think that is not quite right.

      Each dot from the left, going right, signifies an 8 bit boundary.

      A.B would be A is 8 bit, and B is 24 bit.
      I don't believe you can use 16bit.16bit

      1 becomes 0.0.0.1
      1.2 becomes 1.0.0.2
      1.2.3 becomes 10.2.0.3

      You can also use octal or hex (at least in linux)

      012 / 0xa becomes 0.0.0.10
      012.013 / 0xa.0xb becomes 10.0.0.11
      012.013.014 / 0xa.0xb becomes 10.11.0.12

    14. Re:Use IP Addressing again? by Lowca · · Score: 1

      Nope. Said feature still works in my version of MSIE - the latest IE for XP, fully patched.

    15. Re:Use IP Addressing again? by Babbster · · Score: 1

      I'm always counterattacking this damn computer that keeps attacking me and it never helps. 192.168.1.4 - that's the number of MY beast!

  7. Too much to keep track of by titaniam · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My reason for limiting tlds is that there is too much to keep track of already. Has anyone ever tried to get lists of domain names for each tld? It is a daunting problem. More tlds means more hassle for those people trying to set up search engines. I recently did a recursive "dig axfr" on all open nameservers to get lists of domain names to scan, and having more tlds would only complicate matters. Now I am faced with filling out hundreds of arcane online forms to get the definitive lists of domain names from the root registrars. What a hassle, and all to stop spammers/hackers from getting the lists. The internet is NOT open.

  8. Huh? by SeaDour · · Score: 1

    I always thought that intrusive regulation of a free market was more "bad economics" than letting the system guide itself.

    1. Re:Huh? by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      The DNS isn't a free market. It's *infrastructure*.

      --
      Deleted
  9. Stop and think by Nakito · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Forget domain names for a moment. Think generally. What stops anyone from choosing a business name that unlawfully incorporates another company's name? What stops anyone from creating the "Kodak Cafe" or the "Microsoft Bar and Grill"? The answer is: trademark law. Why isn't this enough? Why make such a big deal about trying to solve a problem that's already solved? Create all the TLDs that you want. I guarantee that if someone other than Kodak tries to register Kodak.blah, the registrant of Kodak.blah will be shut down. It's a non-issue.

    1. Re:Stop and think by LPrime · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not for small companies. Its hard to enforce copyright law when you are a small buisness.

      Most of the sites that use the new TLDs are
      A) Scams
      B) Squaters
      or C) Fakes

    2. Re:Stop and think by lycono · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What about those that don't have the money or time to sue? Individuals, small companies, etc?

      Plus, I think you've proven one of the points made in the article:

      At the same time, the cost of protecting one's brand goes up.

      Lawsuits cost money....

    3. Re:Stop and think by Nakito · · Score: 1

      And to carry the thought one step farther: if the domain name does NOT incorporate a trademarked name, such as when the word is generic, then that is exactly the kind of situation in which a lot of TLDs would actually be useful (bank.com, bank.net, bank.blah). So it works either way. If the name is trademarked, it doesn't matter if there are a lot of TLDs because you can shut down infringers, and if the name is not trademarked, it doesn't matter if there are a lot of TLDs because they don't infringe in each other. Where is the problem?

    4. Re:Stop and think by AKnightCowboy · · Score: 5, Interesting
      The problem isn't really big companies that have trademarked names, it's the "little guy" that has webhosting.com or acmenetworking.com. Unless they go buy all the other TLD variations then some smacktard will come along and register acmenetworking.net and acmenetworking.org and start doing business as them.

      Look at extreme situations like handybackup.com vs. handybackup.net. Two ENTIRELY different companies. handybackup.net pirated handybackup.com's software and hacked it to release their "new and improved" 4.1 version, stole handybackup.com's site layout down to the fscking images and is pretty much indistinguishable from handybackup.com except for very minor things like being Novosoft LLC instead of Novosoft Inc. That's just outright fraud.

    5. Re:Stop and think by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      Please try to take your own advice.

      What about the McDonalds car rental business? It is an issue.

      Did you also know that what you are proposing is little better than a hosts file which will cane the bollocks off of the top level name servers?

      Sometimes I wish that PC monitors came with a big stick attached to them so that their operators could be thwacked about the head when they mail or post something completely inane. It would need a protocol to allow the transmission of clues. The clue protocol.

      --
      Deleted
    6. Re:Stop and think by BCoates · · Score: 1

      Exactly, they should sue (or try to get an attorney general to prosecute) instead of worrying about a technical solution. Besides, even if there were no TLDs, they could have just gotten "handybackups" or "handibackup" or "handy-backup" or the like.

    7. Re:Stop and think by BCoates · · Score: 1

      Did you also know that what you are proposing is little better than a hosts file which will cane the bollocks off of the top level name servers?

      bullshit, the .com domain is already a de-facto global hosts file and it works just fine. Adding a few silly TLDs that nobody uses will not make the DNS namespace suddenly heirarchal in practice or more scaleable.

      You should hit yourself with a stick as a proof of concept.

    8. Re:Stop and think by Nakito · · Score: 1

      Here is my point: Take it out of the realm of domain names, and apply the same analysis that you would apply in the physical world. I open a bar called "Johnny's Bar." You open a bar down the street called "Johnny's Pub." Why does the anlysis change if we compare johnnys.bar to johnnys.pub? Or acme.com to acme.net? If the name is actually trademarked (like Kodak) then you can't do it anyway, if it isn't, well, there are a thousand bars out there than include the name "Johnny." And finally, if someone is actually committing fraud or an IP violation, that has nothing to do with the TLD process -- it's just fraud or theft. Those things are already unlawful.

    9. Re:Stop and think by SEE · · Score: 1

      And? We have a legal system to handle fraud. The DNS system itself can't police this.

      If .net didn't exist, the fraudsters could still have used handy-backup.com, handyback-up.com, handy-back-up.com, handibackup.com, handybakup.com, or any others of dozens of minor variants.

    10. Re:Stop and think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is your post the internet equivalent of flopping your dick around in someone's face, or am I misconstruing you here?

    11. Re:Stop and think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, trademark law doesn't stop it.

      Apple Records

    12. Re:Stop and think by Nakito · · Score: 1

      Please try to take your own advice. . . . Sometimes I wish that PC monitors came with a big stick attached to them so that their operators could be thwacked about the head when they mail or post something completely inane.

      Colin, pick up your telephone directory. Now turn to the business section. Now look up all of the businesses that start with a generic word like "Quality" or "National" or even a common last name like "McDonalds." If you live in a medium to large city, you will find many businesses that have similar names using generic words or common names. Multiply by all of the cities in your country. How do you suppose all of those businesses co-existed before the age of the Internet? How do you suppose McDonalds fast food and McDonalds car rental co-exist in your city today? What does any of this have to do with TLDs? That's why I'm asking you to stop and think. It's not a TLD issue. It's a trademark law issue.

      Watch out for that stick attached to your monitor!

    13. Re:Stop and think by chris_mahan · · Score: 1

      go to python.com instead of python.org, see if you like it.

      --

      "Piter, too, is dead."

    14. Re:Stop and think by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      Yeeeeellllooooowwww ppaaaaagggeeeeessss.

      Businesses exist within different sections society and equally so within yellow pages directories.

      If all you can come up with is a flat list of names and numbers like the phone book, or a hosts file you don't have the requisite experience to be commenting on the subject. We have been there and it *doesn't work*. Christ it doesn't even work within moderate sized organisations never mind something the size of the Internet.

      --
      Deleted
    15. Re:Stop and think by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      It *doesn't* work fine.

      If it worked fine we wouldn't be having this bloody discussion. Again. There's domain squatting, trademark infringement, lawsuits over name collisions. It's all completely unnecessary.

      The fact that names are created under .com offloads the traffic from the root nameservers to the .com nameservers thereby freeing up the root nameservers to handle more queries. .com isn't a de-facto flat hosts file for the whole internet, not even remotely. We're using a .org name right now and my company is a .co.uk

      --
      Deleted
    16. Re:Stop and think by g0at · · Score: 1

      Right, if the whole of the interet played out within the confines of American trademark law or other local laws of your choice.

      Here's a tip: the internet extends beyond just your country.

      -b

    17. Re:Stop and think by Alsee · · Score: 1

      The correct solution is to open a million new top level domain names. If some dumbass company wants to own every every variation of some name then let them spend tens of millions of dollars every year to cybersquat on a million registrations.

      What stops anyone from creating the "Kodak Cafe" or the "Microsoft Bar and Grill"? The answer is: trademark law.

      ARRRRRGH! No it does not! You post and your logic IS THE PROBLEM. You have every right to open Microsoft Bar and Grill. If you register Microsoft.blah then you'd have every right to keep it. Had you snatched up Microsoft.com first then you'd have every right to keep that too.

      A US trademark office search (merely one of almost 200 countries, and no more authoritative to the internet than any other) turned up the following listings -

      MICROSOFT: water treatment chemicals for treating potable water for domestic use
      RPS Products, Inc. CORPORATION ILLINOIS 261 Keyes Avenue Hampshire ILLINOIS 60140

      MICROSOFT: PHARMACEUTICALS
      Bedare LLC CORPORATION CONNECTICUT 5 Lindsay Drive Greenwich CONNECTICUT 06830

      MICROSOFT: chemicals for use in the maintenance of swimming pools and spas
      Bio-Lab, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE P. O. Box 1489 Decatur GEORGIA 300311489

      MICROSOFT: DENTAL PROSTHETIC
      SUBURBAN DENTAL LABORATORIES, INC. CORPORATION MARYLAND 11810 PARKLAWN DRIVE ROCKVILLE MARYLAND 20852

      MICROSOFT: WATER CONDITIONING SYSTEMS
      L*A WATER CONDITIONING, INC. CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 17400 E. CHESTNUT ST. CITY OF INDUSTRY, CALIF.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  10. Exactly by mphase · · Score: 1

    I think the nail has already been hit on the head here so no need for comments, move along.

    1. Re:Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      If you are saying anything other than that Tim boy's been smoking crack again, you are the one being hit on the head with said nail.

      Really, when was the last time that guy said ANYTHING truly sensible or even interesting? While he's not the most annoying gas bag around, his "visions" and ideas are nothing more than product of seemingly mediocre mind. And in this particular case, arguments are just idiotic. There is no requirement for everyone to "Collect the whole series", WRT domain names.

      I personally think they should just open up full range of TLDs; but just make hosting a TLD slightly regulated, and cost bit more (1000$ annually... or whatever), and maybe require some background checks for companies (or individuals) given license to acts as registrars. And then LET THEM CREATE ALL TLDS THEY NEED. Really, what is such a big deal with this?

    2. Re:Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the nail has already been hit on the head here so no need for comments, move along.

      You're new here, aren't you...

  11. Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee by Pan+T.+Hose · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is not clearly stated in the summary, but for those who don't already know, Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee is the one who has singlehandedly invented the World Wide Web and has written the first browser and server. See this.

    --
    Sincerely,
    Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
    "Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
    1. Re:Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee by Timesprout · · Score: 1, Funny

      You cheeky bastard.

      I invented the Internet.

      Yours etc
      Al Gore

      --
      Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
      What truth?
      There is no dupe
    2. Re:Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee by MisterFancypants · · Score: 2, Funny

      This is nothing but FUD. The World Wide Web was created by Microsoft. That is why the Internet Explorer is an integrated part of the Windows Operating System. All this Berners-Lee fellow did was make an Open Source clone of Internet Explorer called 'www', and as with other Open Source clones, it has a crappy UI and hardly no features. It is all in text, for christ's sake.

    3. Re:Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee by DanThe1Man · · Score: 1

      Actually, According to Bernes-Lee, Bush had more to do with invention of the internet then Gore.

    4. Re:Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee by Cooke · · Score: 1

      I thought it was Bill Gates... says so in his 2nd revision of his auto biography

    5. Re:Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee by DanThe1Man · · Score: 1

      Actually, accroding to Bernes-Lee, a Bush had more to do with inventing the internet then Gore.

    6. Re:Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee by HybridJeff · · Score: 1
      Gore never claimed to invent the internet, he said "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

      Hes taking credit for supporting the creation of the internet, providing funds through congress, that kind of thing. He wasnt saying that he actually invented the internet, wrote the code for tcp/ip, or anythign like that.

      Source

    7. Re:Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee by SEE · · Score: 1

      Please, can we parse the English plainly?

      If you take the initiative in [verb]ing [item], then you are the first to do it, or you were the leader of it. Therefore, what Gore said has the same meaning as either:

      "I was the first to create the Internet", or
      "I led the creation of the Internet".

      The first of which means the exact same thing as "I invented the Internet." If he didn't mean it, he should have said something else, like:

      "I took the initiative in funding the Internet." "I was an early supporter of creating the Internet."
      "I was the leader of Congressional support for the Internet."

      Or so on.

      Of course, we shouldn't be too hard on Gore. After all, he was a mediocre student in an undergraduate journalism program at a state college, not an MBA from the toughest buisness school in the world. Our standards should be set lower for Mr. Gore.

    8. Re:Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I came across a really informative interview Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee gave (his longest sit-down yet, at two hours). See: http://www.vqfoundation.org/episodes/episodes.html

    9. Re:Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee by Titusdot+Groan · · Score: 1
      You know I hate what Bush has done to the US, but man is this stupidity ever getting old.

      If wrote on my resume "While at Company X, I took the initiative creating the WhizBang 2000", which would anybody reading my resume assume:

      1. I not only created WhizBang 2000, but I proposed and championed the project at Company X.
      2. I was a mid level accountant who pushed that it get R&D funding during the budget process.

      If you picked option 2. you are either an idiot or a Gore apologist.

    10. Re:Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee by HybridJeff · · Score: 1
      I agree with you, It just pisses me off whenever I see somthing miss quoted like that "I invented the interne"t thing always is. Sure what he said wasnt much better, but up untill recently I was under the impression that he did specifically say that he *invented* the internet. With an emphesis on the word invented, as if he was being quoted directly.

      Maybe its because Im not an American, and I diddnt hear about the claim untill much after the election. But even if you dont like Gore, wheres the need to misquote someone to make him seem worse? Its not like using an accurate quote would make him look any better. Not that it matters anyway, like I said, I just hate it when people are misquoted. It would piss me off if I was taken out of contect too.

    11. Re:Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good stuff. I was suprised to hear his stance on the whole OS and Browser integration issue--he's all for it.

    12. Re:Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee by martin · · Score: 1

      quite, but the WWW != the internet..

    13. Re:Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      The first of which means the exact same thing as "I invented the Internet."

      No, it really doesn't. Beginning a statement with "I took the initiative " means that you were the one who decided to do something, not that you did it yourself.

      For example, in the current USA leadership, Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld took the initiative in attacking Iraq. But of course, he never actually did fighting himself- that was left to people of much lower rank. Back in the 20th century, President Kennedy took the initiative in landing on the moon- but again, he had no active role at NASA.

      "I took the initiative to" is a weasely phrase managers can use to take credit for the achievements of their employees. That much should be obvious.

    14. Re:Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      Neither of those makes sense. The only reasonable choice is:
      3. I was an executive who told my underlings to create the Whizbang2000. or
      4. I was the basic researcher who concieved of the principles to Whizbang2000, but a separate team of engineers got the glory of building a product from my vague ideas.

      If someone had intended to mean #1, the word "initiative" wouldn't have been present without an "and" following it. As written, it sounds like he was only involved in the project at the initial stages, and didn't follow through to completion.

  12. White Paper...Looks green to me. by maromig · · Score: 1

    Very funny kmccammon; the "White Paper" has a green web background.

    --
    ------ Michael A. Romig
    1. Re:White Paper...Looks green to me. by Frizzle+Fry · · Score: 1

      It's also online, not on paper. But I suppose you could print on paper. Of course, if you did the paper might be white.

      --
      I'd rather be lucky than good.
  13. Yeah yeah yeah. Though maybe he'll be listened to. by Colin+Smith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My rant on the subject:

    http://www.archeus.plus.com/colin/dns/

    Again...

    --
    Deleted
  14. This is a great idea for registars and... by TedTschopp · · Score: 2, Informative

    .... Crap... That's it.

    In all seriousness, this needs to not happen. I can tell you all sorts of horror stories of my own regarding a rather well know domain name and not owning the .net version of it.

    Ted Tschopp

    --
    Fantasy remains a human right; we make in our measure and in our derivative mode... -- JRR Tolkien
    1. Re:This is a great idea for registars and... by rs79 · · Score: 1

      Sure, cause that's news. the other 98% isn't news so you don't hear about it, and it works fine.

      --
      Need Mercedes parts ?
  15. The problem with new tlds is by Roland+Piquepaille · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Traditional TLDs have passed into everyday english. When you phone someone and say "hey here's my email: xyz at something dot com". People on the other end kind of expect a "dot com" to end the email. They can tolerate a "dot net" or "dot org" because they're very common (less so for emails). National TLDs are common too, for the nationals concerned, and other people in the world who see them regularly.

    But "john at cia dot info"? "robert at shackled dot mobi"? these extensions are so uncommon nobody wants them in their emails, or FQDNs, because almost invariably people go "uh?" hearing them. They just don't stick.

    New TLDs are a catch-22 problem: people won't use them because they sound alien, and they sound alien because people don't use them.

    1. Re:The problem with new tlds is by grahamsz · · Score: 4, Funny

      Tell me about it...

      I've got an email address that ends in .ms and it's a pain in the ass giving to anyone - even computer literate people do a double take.

      On the upside i get comparatively little spam to that address - i wonder if the spam tools filter out unlikely domains?

    2. Re:The problem with new tlds is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clever url. Well done :-)

    3. Re:The problem with new tlds is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, that should be graha.ms@graha.ms and sarahbug@empathy.com, I repeat, graha.ms@graha.ms and sarahbug@empathy.com.

      I wish you the best of luck in avoiding spam at graha.ms@graha.ms and sarahbug@empathy.com

    4. Re:The problem with new tlds is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You bastards! All of you!

    5. Re:The problem with new tlds is by MavEtJu · · Score: 1

      Traditional TLDs have passed into everyday english.

      But it's very localized: People in the Netherlands expect either a TLD or .nl, people in Australia either expect a TLD or .xx.au.

      It's only the people in the USA which don't yet grab the concept of their local .us :-)

      --
      bash$ :(){ :|:&};:
    6. Re:The problem with new tlds is by callipygian-showsyst · · Score: 1
      Nobody gets my alternate "TLD"

      I got my "robert.to" for my personal domain. I thought it would be handy. An easy-to-remember name for email.

      It doesn't work! Unless someone is at all "computer literate" I have to explain what .to is! I get people trying to send email to (whatever)@robert.to.com or having to explain that .to is just like .com if you're in Tonga.

      At least Tonga has nice weather, so my domain can sit on the beach and enjoy itself all day long.

    7. Re:The problem with new tlds is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe peope have problems with it because they think for some reason a site with a Tonga domain should have something to do with Tonga.

  16. MOD PARENT DOWN! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's HIGHLY unlikely w3.org is gonna get slashdotted, this is just a waste of /.'s bandwidth.

    1. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only that, but (s)he posted in code (or TT) format.

      Looser.

    2. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's "loser", you stupid bag of dog poop that's been peed on by between three and seven cats and then left to sit out in the sun for several hours.

  17. The concept of TLDs by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is rather outdated to me. I agree with the idea that the tree structure doesn't fit the net anymore. I'd say we should open it wide- with the new hard drives coming out, all top level DNS servers should have 10 TB of space- and anybody who wants to can start a new TLD company. That way, the price of registration will fall until registering any domain name is trivial- and we'll get human language based domain names as a big plus. Of course, I'm already doing this in the framework- my company, Information-R-Us (link not included in hopes of avoiding slashdoting, my DSL line can't take it) has a domain name that is just a rearrangement of the punctuation- in the .us TLD of course.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    1. Re:The concept of TLDs by CyberKnet · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd say we should open it wide- with the new hard drives coming out, all top level DNS servers should have 10 TB of space- and anybody who wants to can start a new TLD company

      - Hard drives still cost money.
      - High performance computers still cost money.
      - Colocation and bandwidth still cost money.
      - Admins still cost money.
      - Redundant backup schemes still cost money.
      - 24x7x365.25 high availability still costs money.

      Why should another company finance this for you?

      The tree structure does work. It just doesn't work when:
      a) You do not want to pay for it
      or
      b) When someone else has the name you want.

      And in those cases, you are just sweet out of luck. Try convincing your local office space rental to let you have an office and signage for free because there is so much office space around, and it really doesn't cost that much anyway. If you get free office space for life let me know, I obviously need to move my own business headquarters.

      --
      Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius
    2. Re:The concept of TLDs by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Another company doesn't have to pay for the 256 bytes of space a DNS name takes up- use your own root server for it.

      Plus, you forgot:
      c) when you want a domain name that doesn't include a two-or-three-or-even-four character suffix on the end that means nothing to your business, and that is still globally unique.
      The tree structure doesn't hold up well when, say, I try to register Marxist.Hacker as a domain, does it?

      Imaginary space is only valueable as long as you can get people to pay for it- and the tree structure is only valuable for people who limit their imaginations to fit reality instead of changing reality to fit their imaginations.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    3. Re:The concept of TLDs by Colin+Smith · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, it sounds outdated to you because you have no idea what you're talking about. Fashionable is it?

      Oooh, look information-r.us isn't registered. Should I? Should I? Direct it to a porn site? Maybe you should register that one quickly, before someone else does. Oh, and you might want to get information-r-us.com/net/org as well.

      Get a clue. In a completely flat namespace, which is what you are suggesting, you're going to have to register pretty much every combination you can. Just like now.

      --
      Deleted
    4. Re:The concept of TLDs by Anders+Andersson · · Score: 1
      Another company doesn't have to pay for the 256 bytes of space a DNS name takes up- use your own root server for it.

      You are joking, right? Or are you trying to say that everyone should have their own root server, each holding a single 256-byte domain name only? It's like saying you don't need a centrally maintained telephone directory listing thousands of subscribers; you can maintain your own entry and never call anybody else.

      Imaginary space is only valueable as long as you can get people to pay for it- and the tree structure is only valuable for people who limit their imaginations to fit reality instead of changing reality to fit their imaginations.

      In my imagination, tree structures are among the essentials in life. Our imaginations are different, and would conflict with each other if used as a basis for changing reality. Do you still believe both of us can have it our way?

    5. Re:The concept of TLDs by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      You are joking, right? Or are you trying to say that everyone should have their own root server, each holding a single 256-byte domain name only? It's like saying you don't need a centrally maintained telephone directory listing thousands of subscribers; you can maintain your own entry and never call anybody else.

      Not quite- note before I said that the standard should be a 10TB server if you're going to do DNS at all- otherwise you SHOULD be renting from a TLD company of some sort.

      In my imagination, tree structures are among the essentials in life. Our imaginations are different, and would conflict with each other if used as a basis for changing reality. Do you still believe both of us can have it our way?

      Yes- if we're going to go to the trouble to redesign the standard anyway (which is more trouble than it's worth, I think, but the article says differently), it's perfectly easy for you to put a tree structure of TLDs in a completely flat namespace- you just code your version of BIND to eliminate any names that don't match. Just don't expect, if people get used to flat namespace domain names, loads of customers to sign up with your ISP- because after all, you're effectively censoring the rest.

      As for implementing a version of BIND that is based on a flat namespace, that's relatively easy, and not much different than the current version. It's only a string after all. Propagation takes care of the rest. The problem comes in the flat namespace folks getting a critical percentage of TLD companies and ISPs to use their version of BIND. And THAT, is where it falls down- it's the same problem as trying to change SMTP to eliminate spam.

      However, having said that, we need to remember that software is man-made, and there aren't any real physical constraints to how it operates. There's no philosophical reason behind price tags on software- nor is there any actual standards beyond our own shared myth of the RFC. If, as a species, we choose to have our information systems of any sort, even ecconomic, operate differently, it's a trival problem to implement a new set of rules, just takes the gathering of power over large groups of people to accomplish it.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    6. Re:The concept of TLDs by Anders+Andersson · · Score: 1
      note before I said that the standard should be a 10TB server if you're going to do DNS at all

      It doesn't matter how much disk space you have, and I wasn't commenting on it. I was commenting on how much data you expect "some other company" to store in order to delegate a domain to your server. Again, you said:

      Another company doesn't have to pay for the 256 bytes of space a DNS name takes up

      If the domain 256bytename.com is assigned to you, the root server only needs to know that "com" is handled by the .COM server, and the .COM server needs to know that "256bytename" is handled by your server. Regardless of whether you have a name server of your own or use the services of some ISP, the .COM server still has to remember "256bytename".

      If we implement a flat namespace instead and forget about the .COM level, all that happens is that the root server is now required to keep track of the "256bytename" and where your name server is located. The root server has to do the same for every other domain out there. They may well have 10 TB of disk space for that purpose, but someone has to pay for it, and that someone is you, the domain owner. You cannot avoid that cost by setting up a server of your own with 10 TB of disk, because everybody will still ask the one and only root server where your domain is. That's why your suggestion "use your own root server" sounds nonsensical to me.

      I'm not saying that it's impossible to implement a flat namespace, only impractical given the benefits of a hierarchical namespace. With a flat namespace, you can't subdelegate; instead you will have to pay the root server administrators for every single domain you want. If you have hundreds of workstations, a handful of servers, a dozen printers and a few other gizmos on your office LAN, do you really want to pay Verisign $10 annually for each connected unit?

      A flat namespace is not at all alien to the Internet; we had that 20 years ago, and maintaining a central list of all the hosts (the SRI-NIC HOSTS.TXT file) was an administrative nightmare already with a few thousand hosts only. That's why the DNS was introduced, allowing us to delegate entire branches of the namespace to different organizations, so you no longer had to contact SRI-NIC to connect annother server to your office LAN. Maybe you don't need to advertise every single host to the world, but you still need a way to reserve its name for your own use only.

    7. Re:The concept of TLDs by CyberKnet · · Score: 1

      How nice to hear the voice of of logical reasoning.

      Too many people around here are quite obviously not familiar with the architecture of what they are talking about.

      Thank you for your well thought out contribution. Of course, given your UID it could almost be expected, but still... Thank You.

      --
      Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius
  18. New TLDs are just a shakedown by yelvington · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When .biz and .info emerged a couple of years ago, I had to spend a six-figure sum of my company's money to register trademarks, placenames, product names, et cetera ... primarily as a defensive maneuver. We didn't get a cent of value out of those registrations, but we did have to fight several expensive legal challenges (multiple companies may use a word as a trademark in different contexts, so disputes naturally arise).

    In my opinion, these new TLDs were successful only as a tool for driving revenue to registrars and especially Afilias and Neulevel (which administer those TLD's).

    1. Re:New TLDs are just a shakedown by LostCluster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I agree... .biz is a redundant domain to .com. and in a conflict-free world .biz would end up matching .com exactly.

      Really, the only use I see in .biz is for a "split the baby" settlement to double-registration situations, where both have a legit right to the trademark in different contexts, where one takes .com and one takes .biz.

    2. Re:New TLDs are just a shakedown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had to spend a six-figure sum of my company's money [...] We didn't get a cent of value out of those registrations

      If (spending > value) don't buy it!

      TLDs were successful only as a tool for driving revenue to registrars

      I prefer to call them a tax on stupidity.

    3. Re:New TLDs are just a shakedown by wayne606 · · Score: 1

      I can't imagine that one takes .com and the other .biz would be satisfactory to anybody. If Foo Flea Collars and Foo Post Hole Diggers both wanted foo.com I think they would be more likely to go with foofleacollars.com and foopostholediggers.com ...

      I think the reason .edu is useful is that there is some criterion for getting a domain. You have to be a school and it has to be some derivative of the school name. If it weren't for this we would have sony.com == sony.net == sony.edu and we would be back to a 1-level namespace.

      Maybe AOL has the right idea. Just give people a keyword - no www or com tacked on. Easier to remember.

      Anyway, nobody remembers URL's any more. They just Google with the company name and bookmark it.

    4. Re:New TLDs are just a shakedown by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Exactly! The best way to solve the problem is to throw open a million new TLD's.

      If some dumbass comapny wants to cybersquat on a million domains then let them bankrupt themselves paying yearly fees on a million registrations.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    5. Re:New TLDs are just a shakedown by curator_thew · · Score: 1


      Agreed. the problem is that addition of ".biz", ".info", etc really add nothing by way of organisational categorisation: at least ".name" or ".pro" or ".ltd" or ".kids" does.

  19. Restricting TLD's by jesterzog · · Score: 1

    One thing that confuses me a little is why TLD's need to be restricted in the first place. If anyone was (easily and accessibly) able to create their own TLD and sell (or give away) names underneath them on their own terms, it would reduce the motivation for businesses to go and snap up every single variation of their name under every TLD.

    Presumably the people or businesses who snap up the better TLD's and run them more reliably will simply get more people wanting to use them to index their servers on the net. Meanwhile everyone else would still be able to run their thousands of other TLD's under their own terms.

    There are already alternative domain registries that do things this way (eg. OpenDNS), but they're immediately disadvantaged because nobody who matters uses their name servers.

    I'm not an expert on DNS. Is there some overriding technical reason these days why TLD's need to be restricted to a small and controlled minority? Or is it something else?

    1. Re:Restricting TLD's by rs79 · · Score: 1

      Is there some overriding technical reason these days why TLD's need to be restricted to a small and controlled minority? Or is it something else?

      Yup, absolutely. Trademark lawyers. No shit.

      --
      Need Mercedes parts ?
    2. Re:Restricting TLD's by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      It's mostly due the structure that dns relies on to work. The point behind dns is so that instead of remembering (or having a database on every machine) that foo.com is 123.234.231.222 and that bar.com is 222.123.231.123 and so on for the entire internet, all you have to know is One i.p. address (plus a backup addy), that using the dns protcal, you can send foo.com to and get back thier current ip address. and should the dns server you contact not have that number localy it in turn looks at the tld, and based on that asks the next apropriate server up the line and so on untill the request gets to the central server for that tld.
      If you have www.foo.com, you'll get back the adress to foo.com so you can ask the dns of foo.com for the addy to www.foo.com.
      This is all done behind the scenes, and does a really good job as the root servers only have to keep track of all *.tld adresses, and let thier owners track *.foo.com.
      The downside of course is that this centralizes tld controll and requires some effort to add a new one.
      The link you provided is about a project to decentralize dns, but this would require lots and lots of people to change thier setups to point to the new system instead of the old.
      The problem here isn't so much technical. As Practical and Political. There may be technical issues, I haven't really the knowledge on the opendns system to comment.
      Between inertia, getting people to change over. Potential problems if there are issues during the changeover timeframe (get back two answers for foo.com, which is right?). And the simple fact that those in charge of the current system make money off it and this would cost them big, so naturally thier against it.
      Plus leagle issues, rember cybersquating and other issues when the web first started taking off?

      Mycroft

      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
  20. You musn't... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...forget the .cx.

  21. Not Al Gore? by Caffeine+Pill · · Score: 1


    I thought that was Al Gore...

  22. You forgot one very important TLD! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The TLD co.uk for Britain! The British are a force not to be neglected!

    1. Re:You forgot one very important TLD! by GammaTau · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For those who live in a geographical area other than the US, the local TLDs can be very important e.g. .de for Germans, .fr for the French etc.

    2. Re:You forgot one very important TLD! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A complete listing of contry TLDs can be found here.

    3. Re:You forgot one very important TLD! by kimba · · Score: 1

      You do realise TLD means "top level domain"? co.uk is a second level domain.

    4. Re:You forgot one very important TLD! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually that's a picture of a naked lady. But it's easy to get confused.

  23. This is not true by Pan+T.+Hose · · Score: 0

    This is nothing but FUD. The World Wide Web was created by Microsoft. That is why the Internet Explorer is an integrated part of the Windows Operating System. All this Berners-Lee fellow did was make an Open Source clone of Internet Explorer called 'www', and as with other Open Source clones, it has a crappy UI and hardly no features. It is all in text, for christ's sake.

    This is simply not true. Please let me quote the most relevant parts of this Wikipedia article [wikipedia.org]:

    "Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee KBE (TimBL or TBL) (b. June 8, 1955) is the inventor of the World Wide Web and head of the World Wide Web Consortium, which oversees its continued development.

    "Berners-Lee was born in London, England, and as a child, studied at Emanuel School in Wandsworth. He is an alumnus of the Queen's College of Oxford University, where, interestingly, he built a computer with a soldering iron, TTL gates, an M6800 processor and an old television. It was also at Oxford where he was caught hacking with a friend and was banned from using the university computer soon after.

    "Before he invented the World Wide Web, he had plenty of programming experience. He worked at Plessey Telecommunications Limited in 1976 as a programmer, and in 1978 he worked at D.G Nash Limited where he worked on typesetting software and an operating system.

    "In 1980, while an independent contractor at CERN, Berners-Lee proposed a project based on the concept of hypertext, to facilitate sharing and updating information among researchers. With help from Robert Cailliau he built a prototype system named Enquire.

    "After leaving CERN to work at John Poole's Image Computer Systems Ltd, he returned in 1984 as a fellow. He used similar ideas that he used in Enquire to create the World Wide Web, for which he designed and built the first browser (called WorldWideWeb and developed on NeXTSTEP) and the first web server simply called httpd. The first website

    "The first web site Berners-Lee built (and therefore the first web site) was at info.cern.ch and was first put online on August 6, 1991. It provided an explanation about what the World Wide Web was, how to get your own browser, how to set up your own web server and so on. It was also the world's first web directory, since Berners-Lee maintained a list of other web sites apart from his own.

    "While the component ideas of the World Wide Web are simple, Berners-Lee's insight was to combine them in a way which is still exploring its full potential. Perhaps his greatest single contribution, though, was to make his idea available freely, with no patent and no royalties due. In 1994 he founded World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) at the MIT Laboratory for Computer Science in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and in 2003, the organization decided that all standards must contain royalty-free technology, so they can be easily adopted by anyone.

    "Berners-Lee became the first holder of the 3Com Founders Chair at MIT, and is now a Senior Research Scientist there.

    "In 1997 he was created an Officer in the Order of the British Empire, and in 2004 was further awarded the honour of Knight Commander as part of the New Year's Honours.

    "On April 15, 2004 he was named as the first recipient of the Finland's Millennium Technology Prize for inventing the World Wide Web. The prize will be awarded on June 15, in Helsinki, Finland.

    "He is a Distinguished Fellow of the British Computer Society, an Honorary Fellow of the Institution of Electrical Engineers, a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and became a Fellow of the Royal Society in 2001.

    "He received the Japan Prize in 2002."

    I hope the above quotations will clarify the apparent misunderstanding.

    --
    Sincerely,
    Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
    "Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
  24. They brought you no value, so why get them? by Nursie · · Score: 1

    Why bother if they have no value?

    Surely if they have brought you no value then they were not worth the effort, and you could have let someone else have them and get use from them?

    What a waste.

    1. Re:They brought you no value, so why get them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Nursie wrote:

      Why bother if they have no value?

      Surely if they have brought you no value then they were not worth the effort, and you could have let someone else have them and get use from them?

      What a waste.


      If you don't defend your trademark (eg file a lawsuit against somebody abusing or lifting your trademarked name), then you are in danger of losing the trademark and won't be able to defend it in the future. Your trademark then becomes worthless, which could be a serious problem if you have invested a lot of time and effort in becoming a reputable business. It only takes one con-artist to ruin your good name.

      If you have to keep taking abusers to court, you will have to pay lawyers, who usually charge a minimum of $200 per hour. That can drive you to bankruptcy very quickly.

    2. Re:They brought you no value, so why get them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trademarks are limited to a certain context. For example apple.org doesn't automatically infringe on apple.com unless it's used to also sell computers. Same for Apple Coumputer vs Apple Music. It's neither necessary nor possible to preemptively register all infinite number of variations of "apple" to defend the Apple Computer trademark.

  25. Branding, Trademark, Tradenames, DBA, by Efialtis · · Score: 1

    I think they have it all wrong. YOu don't need to register .net, .org, .com, .edu, .gov, .tv, .whatever... You simply need to Register your Trademark or Tradename with the appropriate government agency. Yes, it does cost, but less than buying every TLD they decide to come out with... That way, if someone comes along and buys yourtradename.org, and you have yourtradename.com, you could sue them for infringing on your Tradename... Once you register it, it is yours, and is stored in a national database... Personally, I think they could fix the problem if they would simply force people to register TLDs CORRECTLY... If you are an Organization, non profit, or otherwise, you MUST register in .org, not in .com... if you are a Network, ISP or otherwise, you MUST register in .NET not in .ORG or .COM And if you are a commercial business, then .COM or .BIZ or something, but NOTHING else... This would free up MILLIONS of URLs to be used by those that need them... If you really wanted to save TLDs, create a .SEX and force all porn to move to .sex not .com, .org or .anything else... This would free up MILLIONS all by itself...

    --
    --E--
    1. Re:Branding, Trademark, Tradenames, DBA, by oevren · · Score: 1

      If you really wanted to save TLDs, create a .SEX and force all porn to move to .sex not .com, .org or .anything else... This would free up MILLIONS all by itself...

      I can see thousands of non-pr0n businesses out there waiting for domain names like actual-porn.com, megapornlinks.com, penisdance.com
      to free up. :)

      --
      I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by. --Douglas Adams
    2. Re:Branding, Trademark, Tradenames, DBA, by phurley · · Score: 1

      But if I am ACME.com I might still want to own the other ACME.??? domains so someone cannot setup a ACME.org and talk about how terriable my rocket shoes are.

      --
      Home Automation & Linux -- now I know I'm a geek
  26. Re:Yeah yeah yeah. Though maybe he'll be listened by KhalidBoussouara · · Score: 0

    Why it wouldn't work:

    Microsoft Produces Operating systems
    microsoft.operating-systems.software.com

    These operating systems must be paid for (to legally obtain):
    microsoft.operating-systems.software.pay.com

    The OS is not open source (assuming you don't mean pure ASM code):
    microsoft.operating-systems.software.pay.no-source .com

    This will get extremely confusing for many users. There will also be disagreements about what fits into what category. Also businesses need a domain name which sounds interesting and attracts the users attention.

  27. .LU is another very important TLD! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or .lu for Luxembourg. Although very small, Luxembourg is a very important country. Without it, the Europeans wouldn't know where to bank.

  28. Are those - by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    - the kinds of domain names you really want to have?

  29. Suggestions for improving the situation? by Jugalator · · Score: 1

    I'm also aware of that new TLD's are in most cases a dead end to improve domain name availability, partially due to all domain parkers purchasing domains they only wish to sell. :-P

    Anyone have any ideas on how to improve this? Should domain parking in this way not be allowed? However, although that's disallowed, maybe we'd still have problems with e.g. a movie company registering a domain name just for a movie (happens all the time), which happens to have a common name.

    Should more restrictions about what a company can register be put into place? Controlled TLD's that companies are forced and/or disallowed to register stuff under? So a commercial company that makes a profit can't register under .org, and so porn sites can't register stuff like www.whitehouse.com and must stick with e.g. www.whitehouse.xxx? This could make the web much easier to navigate too, as you'd not even have to think about if this is a non-profitable organization or that really is part of a network of web sites (.net).

    Or is all this freedom best in the end?

    --
    Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    1. Re:Suggestions for improving the situation? by rs79 · · Score: 1

      This has been a problem for about a decade now. There really isn't anything that can be done about it. Where do you drsw the line? There was a guy in BC that snapped up damn near everybody's last name in .com, truly annoying, but, for $5 a year or something you got an address with your name in it.

      Then there are the guys that just horde names and want egregous prices for them. Guess what? They never sell any ans just end up holding the bag on those fees.

      Then there are people that have hundreds of thousand of domains. They won't sell them and theyt set up search pages and make money on each one. While I personally don't like this I like even less somebody telling me what I can and cannot do with a domain name.

      --
      Need Mercedes parts ?
  30. Not Al Gore But Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee by Pan+T.+Hose · · Score: 1

    I thought that was Al Gore...

    You are probably talking about the ARPANET [wikipedia.org] while I was talking about the World Wide Web [wikipedia.org]. Please read this Wikipedia article [wikipedia.org].

    --
    Sincerely,
    Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
    "Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
    1. Re:Not Al Gore But Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee by Caffeine+Pill · · Score: 1


      Actually I was going for the +5 funny karma whore - but apparently the joke was lost on both you and the mods.

      Ah, I see what happened - I left out the Simpsons reference. Damn it all.

  31. TLD explosion? by MemoryAid · · Score: 2, Funny
    Am I the only one whose first thought was that some hapless nuclear worker's thermoluminescent dosimeter exploded? I imagine it happened while reading it, so it probably didn't injure anybody, but still, nuclear safety and monitoring devices should be safe, at the very least.

    And what's with all the comments about IP addresses?

    --
    Language students: Don't try to learn English here. This ain't it.
    1. Re:TLD explosion? by ExEm2SS · · Score: 1

      Oh god! Why did you have to bring up TLD's in the nuclear context? Brings back six years of hell aboard the submarine. Oh shit!! Here comes back the flashbacks!!! "Reville, reville! All hands turn to, commence Field Day!!! Muster a 15 man working party with Senior Chief Poling in Missle Compartment Middle Level!" "All Ahead Flank Cavitate, Torpedo in the Water!!!" "Conn, Maneuvering. Request permission to stop the shaft for training!" "Man Battle Stations Missle. Set Condition 1SQ. Simulate spinning up Missles 1 through 24" "Attention men, this is the captain!!! Liberty is suspended until Morale improves!!!!" "Commencing normal Reactor Shutdown!" Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh. Oh my god, now the FBI's coming after me!!! I'm going to prison!!! They're going to lock up me now!!!! Now I'm going to show up on 60 minutes with a bag over my head and electric wires sticking out my penis for spilling National Security secrets. I only hope that my tormenter is better looking than PFC England!!!

  32. Boo Hoo for Corporations by clump · · Score: 1
    I don't believe that one needs to snap up every version of domains saying apple, home, or even localhost. More TDL's give more people the right to a short easy to remember name.

    Agereed. All of the discussion has been about "brand" and "corporation". Funny, as an American my tax Dollars did a lot for the Internet and funnier still corporations are all that are kept in mind with TLD issues. Corporations get enough as is. Lets look at it from a "person" perspective.
  33. Re:Yeah yeah yeah. Though maybe he'll be listened by vyrus128 · · Score: 1

    Your rant suggests making more thorough use of the hierarchical properties of DNS. I have thought about the problem, and come to the opposite conclusion: dump the toplevel hierarchy altogether. Start at the top with what are not considered second-level domains, adding some arbitrary mechanism to disambiguate multiple registrations of the same domain (a numbering system or some such.) I mean after all, that's all that .com .net .org are currently used for, as Berners-Lee points out: they are disambiguators. Any meaning previously attached to them is gone...

  34. Eliminate'em by FrankSchwab · · Score: 1

    We've already gotten to the state that "WWW." is superfluous on most addresses now. Make the TLD superfluous. Let Sony addresses all end in .sony. If Sony in Chile wants it's own address, it becomes sony.cl, or sony.us in the United states. Trademark problems can be handled in the local countries courts - if Sony isn't doing business in Chile, certainly another company can do business as "Sony" in that country. What happens today in the B&M world when Sony, as a global corp, decides to do business in Chile? How do they reclaim their trademark from the local company? These issues have been hashed out in the courts, and there are well-defined rules for dealing with them. Why should the web be different? There will be conflicts, sure, but as someone who tried to register a "Schwab.dom" on all of the likely TLDs, and found Charles Schwab already parked on them, I can't imagine the conflicts being any worse than they are now, and it eliminates one more superfluous piece of information that I have to type in.

    --
    And the worms ate into his brain.
    1. Re:Eliminate'em by NuclearDog · · Score: 0

      How about you register a TLD rather than a domain under it (bear with me here), basically inverting the tree.

      So Sony could register www.sony. Nobody else could register anything starting with www.sony. If Sony wanted to do business in Chile, they could set up a subdomain, cl, so you could get the Chile site as www.sony.cl. Could probably get rid of the www too, otherwise you'd start having alternate versions of that, and ending up with the same problem we have now.

      Anyways, that's my idea.

      --
      This statement is forty-five characters long.
    2. Re:Eliminate'em by MavEtJu · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Let Sony addresses all end in .sony. If Sony in Chile wants it's own address, it becomes sony.cl, or sony.us in the United states.

      You don't get the idea behind DNS trees. Sony Chili would get cl.sony, Sony USA would get us.sony.

      That way they only have to worry about one TLD instead of (like they have now) all the ccTLDs.

      --
      bash$ :(){ :|:&};:
    3. Re:Eliminate'em by caluml · · Score: 1

      So you're saying that companies are more important that nations? Surely it is sony from .cl, and not cl of .sony?

  35. Overrated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why has parent been moderated as overrated? This is all true. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee

    1. Re:Overrated? by MisterFancypants · · Score: 1

      Probably because the post it was responding to (my post) was an obvious troll. YHBT. HAND.

    2. Re:Overrated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Probably because the post it was responding to (my post) was an obvious troll. YHBT. HAND.

      Wouldn't it make more sense to moderate troll posts as Troll instead of moderating the responses as Overrated?

  36. Mod parent as Informative by ArseneLupin · · Score: 0

    I've been looking for such a list for ages! This is even more useful than the list of country telephone prefixes sorted by prefix!

  37. Not bad economics... by CliffH · · Score: 1

    ... for the registry services. This is a very simple way of getting more money out of current customers who truly care about their name. It's very simple economics really. Do you think all of the registrars are out there for the good the people? Internet? Corporations? No, they're out there for their shareholders. They are businesses and need to make money.

    As for not buying from the new TLDs, there will be an uneasy settling in period for sure but people will start trusting sites and email from these domains. Blindly trusting a .net, .com, or .org site is asking for trouble anyways. We're long gone from the days of blind trust and faith on the web for practically anything. I think if I keep going down this route, I'll need to find my tin foil hat. :)

    CliffH

    --
    sigs are like a box of chocolates, they all suck remove the underscores to email me
  38. I agree, "little guy" is screwed. by twitter · · Score: 5, Interesting
    After losing my domain name to the theif who runs this disgraceful site, I'm about to give up on domain names all together. What happened? The name I registered was bombed out by spam, my ISP was uncooperative and sleaze bag, who runs a his own big registrar grabbed it up.

    Do I think Sigmund has a real interest in my former domain name? Only as a speculator. What else can "Buy domains inexpensively! Resell them at competitive prices!" mean?

    So what can I do about it? Sigmund is a lawyer with $250,000 worth of infrastructure behind him. I've seen WIPO cases with more going for them lose. The year I spent building that site and name are now effectively Sigmund's and there's nothing I can do about it because I don't have the time, resources or knowledge.

    Problems like that need to be solved. Small businesses are going to be driven from the web by practices like that. If they go, so goes the web itself because people are not going to trust a non free media. It's simple banditry and no one does business in a lawless place.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:I agree, "little guy" is screwed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately this isn't much different from any larger competitor deciding to take out a smaller one. Using underpricing, borderline trademark infringement, frivolous lawsuits, intimidation of customers, cash incentives, tying, iffy patents, etc happens in the real world too.

  39. Higher cost would proably be a good thing... by Pivot · · Score: 1

    But not necessarily because one has to register more domain name extension.

    If the yearly cost for a domain name was $500 instead of $25, we would see a lot less domains locked by some stupid domain name owners waiting years for someone to bid on their unused domains.

    1. Re:Higher cost would proably be a good thing... by vyrus128 · · Score: 1

      If the cost to register a domain name were $500 instead of $35, I would never have been able, as a poor college student, to register a domain name. Is it your intent to make the Internet more elitist than it's already becoming, or did you just not think through your proposal?

  40. bad idea in the first place by joebolte · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I really have to say that I think the whole idea of TLD's was a bad idea in the first place. We should have just had keywords that linked to DNS so you wouldn't have to remember whether somethign was .org .net or .com It seems that multiple domains are only for people trying to be deceptive and grab traffic from a better-known site. It doesn't help to have somehting like abra.org available instead of abra.net People just can't remember which one it was so they should both lead to the same site, just abra.

    1. Re:bad idea in the first place by jcam2 · · Score: 1

      You can do this already - just set your browser's home page to Google, and always use it to search for sites instead of entering URLs :-)

  41. Wrong by rs79 · · Score: 1

    It's a real domain name and you can use any .arpa domain delegated to you like any other.

    It's horrifically ugly and long, but hey, it's free.

    --
    Need Mercedes parts ?
  42. Not by rs79 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Lee put the pieces together. Brian Reid for his PhD thesis invented Scribe which begat SGML which begat HTML. Einar Stefferud invnted MIME and got Nathaniel Borenstein to implement it. Add the Mac Hypercard ideas to this, shake, bake, and you have a WWW cake.

    Lee is dead wrong about this issue too. In any other fora I'd explain why but this is slashdot and I don't even need to read thw article let alone explain how.

    --
    Need Mercedes parts ?
  43. Yes, but he had nothing to do with DNS by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    Having said that if he can bring some light on to the shitty system we have just now it's all good.

    --
    Deleted
  44. And what about .CX? by ArseneLupin · · Score: 0

    I don't really need to cite an example, do I?

  45. my own view by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    As evidenced by the .biz and .info debacle, more top-levels does not necessarily mean more domain name availability. All it really means is that every .com/.net owner now needs to rush out and buy the same name under each new TLD.

    Duuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhh.

    I've been saying that since they suggested .biz and all those other crap domains. Yet, the fact that this is bleedingly obvious to anyone didn't stop them from creating them. In the words of Don McLean, "They did not listen, they're not listening still, perhaps they never will."

    OK, I'd better stop now, or I'll start sounding too much like Ted Nelson.

  46. Interesting rant. by twitter · · Score: 1
    Think of it as a filing system. Would you allow users to randomly create directories off root or /usr or even /home? No, only a fuckwit would do that but this is essentially what ICANN are doing.

    fuckwit is not a nice word. Lose it and your rant would look less like a rant.

    In any case, I like the idea that I can create my own structure without some librarian's assistance. Something like:

    • news.google.com
    • maps.yahoo.com

    The solution to domain squatting is to punish the squatters, but it seems that the powers that be are not up to the task. Unless you can distribute your system, I don't think it will make a difference. Fred the plumber in New York will have the same kinds of problems under any centralized system. Under yours, he will also have to pay up for his personal site and any other business site he wants to run that's not plumbing.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  47. Why regard TLDs as a limited resource? by CynicalGeek · · Score: 1

    There are 3bln+ 6 character domains (assuming 38 legal chars). Why not have an auction system to allocate all the unassigned ones to the highest bidder. We could then have a system to pay out the money as a cashback to everyone who pays for net access. After all, ICANN only "owns" the TLDs because we point our DNS at a server that replicates "their" tree. So one could have an email of me@briansmith or whatever. Just like vanity plates on cars!

    1. Re:Why regard TLDs as a limited resource? by rs79 · · Score: 1

      Damn, now isn't that a good way to melt the root servers. Every time somebody wants to send you mail the root servers get hit.

      The .AI TLD tried this... for about a week, in 1997.

      --
      Need Mercedes parts ?
    2. Re:Why regard TLDs as a limited resource? by CynicalGeek · · Score: 0

      So fix the technology.

      It's there to serve us, not us to serve it.

  48. There's always one wanker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to spoil it for everyone.

  49. DNS? by Pan+T.+Hose · · Score: 1

    This is not clearly stated in the summary, but for those who don't already know, Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee is the one who has singlehandedly invented the World Wide Web and has written the first browser and server.

    Yes, but he had nothing to do with DNS

    He had nothing to do with IRC either and still he has invented the World Wide Web nonetheless. Let us give credit where it is due.

    --
    Sincerely,
    Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
    "Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
  50. You're an Idiot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "More TDL's give more people the right to a short easy to remember name. "

    Yes, all of those people have a short and easy to remember name, how are you proving him wrong?

    Mod parent down for being stupid and proving grand parent's point.

  51. there is no problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    dot com sounded alien back when there was only .mil and .edu, and that didn't prevent it from happening. What people think is not a problem. People will think what they are told to think.

  52. When ".tv" was being promoted... by callipygian-showsyst · · Score: 2, Insightful
    When the ".tv" folks were heavily promiting their domain, I was working at a Big Media Company.

    The general consensus among us was that "the war was over, and .com won." It wasn't even worth registering these "new" domains. And if someone else used BigMediaCompany.tv in a way that infringed on our trademark, we'd just sue their pants off.

    It was almost like extortion. They could keep creating .TLDs and large corporations would be scared into registering their names in the new domain. It's a guaranteed source of revenue for TLD owners.

    Sometimes I wish they kept the original distinctions between corporate, education, networks, non-profits, etcs. I'd say that most .net owners don't confirm to the original spirit of .net.

  53. a side issue by circletimessquare · · Score: 2, Insightful

    what ever happened to the whole "all internet porn has to end in .xxx" or ".sex", etc.

    seemed like a good idea to me then and still does now

    seems easy to enforce... if you distribute porn and you register a .com, you are opening yourself up to legal action

    and then it is trivial to keep kids away from it without having to play tread water to keep your lists of porn sties up to date

    and no, there is no slippery slope (pardon the pun): sites on breast examination for breast cancer, etc., seem pretty straightforwardly NOT prone to confusion... if you registered someone as a .com site, and someone challenged you, they would lose

    so what gives? how come this idea seemed to have disappeared?

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:a side issue by highwindarea · · Score: 1
      I think you're wrong about the slippery slope part. e.g Is a site with people in swimsuits porn,

      what about people in underwear,

      nude-but-can't-see-the-naughty-bits erotic art,

      Janet Jackson's nipple,

      dirty stories,

      Mills and Boon novels.

      There are a lot of different viewpoints on where to draw the line.

      But I do like the main idea.

      --
      I think this internet thing sounds like a good idea
    2. Re:a side issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should read this.

      RFC 3675 - .sex Considered Dangerous

    3. Re:a side issue by Alsee · · Score: 1

      how come this idea seemed to have disappeared?

      Simple. While .XXX or .SEX would be a great domain to add, it tends to lead people to the dumbass idea of then censoring the entire internet.

      If you want a safe playground for your kiddies simply restrict your filter to http://www.kids.us/ and subdomains.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  54. Why not go the other way by hey! · · Score: 1

    and have an infinite number of top level domains?

    I've often thought it would be good if there were unlimited TLDs.

    For examples you could register: Microsoft.Sucks.

    Corporations, rather than registering IBM.COM or IBM.BIZ, I could register HOME.IBM, OR WWW.IBM, or IBM.COMPUTERS or even BUSINESS.MACHINES. If I had a trademark in a different area, say automobiles, I could still register MOTORCARS.IBM.

    If you wanted a phrase, you could create subdomains: "US.OUT.OF.IRAQ.NOW", or "SUPPORT.OUR.TROOPS".

    This would provide an expanded space for domains so providers could pick distinct, mnemonic names for their services.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:Why not go the other way by rs79 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's actually one of the better ideas putr forth here today. There is absolutey no technical reason why there can't be an extremley large number of TLDs, and in fact Vixie and Denninger looked at this in the mid 90's and did the math and found no problem beyonf 100,000 tlds althougjh they were unsude what happened after a million tlds. Now that we have a roughly 30-50 million zone com file it seems pretty clear it actually woudln't be an issue.

      If you really wanted to be slick about this you'd get everybody to primary the root zone for themselves to take the load and dependancy off the root servers and distribute the root zone via cryptographically signed usenet postings. This is DJ Bernsteins idea, not mine.

      --
      Need Mercedes parts ?
    2. Re:Why not go the other way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is practically the same idea as the just-use-keywords-instead-of-TLDs one you savaged in another post.

  55. No that would just fragment the DNS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even real businesses would rather use AlterNIC or some other organisation.

  56. Domain proliferation by Animats · · Score: 1
    I've been saying that for years, all the way back to when Esther Dyson was "queen of the Internet". I think we should limit ".org" to organizations with members, keep ".net" and ".com", and sunset all the other non-country domains. Country domains should be limited to activities with a physical presence in the country involved.

    The total number of domains registered peaked years ago, and is steadily decreasing. The registrars are frantically trying to devise new revenue streams, most of which involve extracting more money per domain holder.

    Registration in ".com" should require that the registration info for individuals match the name and address on the credit card used to pay for the domain. Domains registered in the name of a corporation should be validated against the registry of corporations for the appropriate jurisdiction. That would improve the validity of the "whois" information.

    I'd only do this for ".com". Non-business websites that don't want to clearly identify themselves should move to ".net" or ".org". Any business not in ".com" would then be assumed to be fraudulent.

    1. Re:Domain proliferation by macbyn · · Score: 1

      Sweden had a good system in place until last year. All .se names could only be owned by a registered business/organization located in Sweden. They then got greedy and opened up the registry to anyone. Now people have registered generic names and are commanding ridiculous prices for them. I had a legitimate business with a .se name registered. My domain name expired at the same time they opened up the registry. During a renewal notice address mixup thanks to a bad ISP, I lost the name to a cybersquatter. If they hadn't changed the rules I could have just renewed it when the mixup was cleared up.

  57. Thoughts by Audacious · · Score: 1

    Ok! How about this:

    I think everyone knows what "WWW" means - so why are we forcing everyone to use that term? True, some people use "WWW" instead of "http://". But tell me - do we really need "http://"? Why not just "h:"? FTP would be just "f:". (Not to sound DOS-ish or anything but I believe there are fewer than 26 types of file transfers around so we could reduce this down a bit.)

    If we really wanted to reduce the overal complexity of going to a site we should think of it like a microscope. We want to zoom in on where we want to go. So TLDs should be by nation. Such as US or UK or FR or whatever. Next we should go to the state/province level. (And not knowing the province names in France or England - I'll stick with the US names.) So the two digit TLD should be expanded by having such things as USAZ, USFL, and the like. Last, there could be a local or city code. (Although that might be going a bit far.) Alright - so now we have (for example):

    h:/us.ibm.xxx
    h:/usfl.hp.xxx

    So what would the "xxx" be? It should be whatever the item is about. Since both of the above would be corporations it should be "CORP". Like so:

    h:/us.ibm.corp
    h:/us.hp.corp

    What about people? How about citizen? Or just ".CIT"?

    h:/us.audacious.cit
    h:/usfl.audacious.cit

    Businesses are either 1)Sole Proprietorships, 2)Corporations, 3)Limited Liability Partnerships, and so forth. So now we can name them like they appear when you look them up in the phone book.

    h:/usca.bradley.llp
    h:/us.coke.corp
    h:/us.budw eiser.corp

    What about colleges?

    h:/usca.usca.col or h:/us.usca.univ or even just h:/us.usca.u

    City Services?

    h:/usfl.tampa.cserv

    The mayor's office?

    h:/usfl.tampa.mayors.office
    h:/usfl.clearwater. mayor

    Government stuff?

    h:/us.gov or h:/us.irs.gov
    h:/usin.gov or h:/usfl.tampa.gov

    The smaller, two letter TLDs, take precedence and all longer (ie: four letter) TLDs. So they must be first checked before allowing someone to use a name. This prevents duplication. Further, each company only has to register once in each country - just like they do in the real world.

    Further, the four letter portion could be broken out by someone and still make it work. Like so:

    h:/us.fl.tampa.gov is the same as h:/us.florida.tampa.gov which is the same as h:/UnitedStates.Florida.Tampa.gov

    (This is also why maybe the city should be reduced to a two letter code as well. Because then it could just be h:/usfltp.gov.)

    So basically, instead of making the TLD on the right end of the line - put it on the left. So the whole thing flows from left to right.

    There! How's that for a suggestion?

    --
    Someone put a black hole in my pocket and now I'm broke. :-)
    1. Re:Thoughts by rs79 · · Score: 1

      Uh, I think you need to change your bong water, dude.

      --
      Need Mercedes parts ?
  58. Interesting by Pan+T.+Hose · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is very interesting. I have read Secrets & Lies: Digital Security in a Networked World by Bruce Schneier and now I am reading New Top Level Domains Considered Harmful by Timothy John Berners-Lee and the later seems to be quite interestingly related to the former. According to Berners-Lee, "The Internet is a net, and the WWW is a Web, but WWW and email use DNS which is a tree, which has a single root." But according to Schneier I also know that security product is a process layered like an onion which is a chain only as secure as the weakest link. Now, I am starting to wonder what would be the weakest link in the chain of onion layers which are the branches of a tree in the web of our network and how could it be related to the "single root" compromise universal vulnerability and if my conclusions are correct then securing the Interweb network is impossible.

    --
    Sincerely,
    Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
    "Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
    1. Re:Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you mean unpossible.

    2. Re:Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats got to be the worst page on the internet

      http://www.informationr.us

  59. Ok, set it up and send me the nameservers then. by rs79 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The .sucks tld was proposed by somebody on NANOG and she set up authoritative nameservers for it. It's bee live for a couple of years.

    Set up the domain and I'll pass along your nameservers and it'll work for at least the l33t. You have to promise not to tell ICANN though, they have utterly no sense of humor about this.

    --
    Need Mercedes parts ?
  60. Why that's a really bad idea by rs79 · · Score: 1

    Would you want Delta faucets to register Delta.* thereby locking out Delta airlines?

    The intellectual property laws in each country resolve these sorts of disputes; only low grade morons and some layers think the issue can be addressed in the DNS claiming "consumer confusion"

    "Let me ask you this... do you turn on your faucet and ask what time your flight is?" - John Berryhill, ESQ

    I fail to understand why TBLee doesn't grok this.

    --
    Need Mercedes parts ?
  61. Why that's a bad idea by rs79 · · Score: 1

    The puropse of a trademark is to prevent people from using your mark. Never mind the fact the USPTO said you can't do this, you wouldn't want to.

    Now if you were talking service marks that's different.

    --
    Need Mercedes parts ?
  62. Yes and no by rs79 · · Score: 1

    In theoretical terms you are correct. But in practival terms, absolutely not. You're very very unlikely to get a TLD vetted by ICANN unless you have a "sunrise provision".

    We've been fighting this (to no avail) for years. The tradmark lobby has been bigger than you, me, NSI and ICANN put together since about 1995. If you look deep enough you'll find trademaek lawyers and nobody else define the DNS landscape.

    See http://sunrise.open-rsc.org/

    --
    Need Mercedes parts ?
  63. I said this at ITEF San Jose in 1996! by Bob_Robertson · · Score: 1

    I guess I just don't have the "name recognition" of TBL.

    Top level domains don't buy anything any more. They are a waste, an attempt to make the REGISTRY look like a INDEX. By confusing the two, the issue continues to plague everyone.

    Maybe since TBL has said it, people will listen now. At least I was able to dissolve an IETF BOF with a single statement. Felt good.

    Bob-

    --
    The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
  64. the larger the net, the lower the clue density by keithmoore · · Score: 1

    people who don't understand the DNS have no business trying to make technical proposals for changing it. if for instance you don't understand how increasing the number of TLDs affects DNS cache locality, and how this affects root server bandwidth and availability, you don't have a leg to stand on.

    1. Re:the larger the net, the lower the clue density by guanxi · · Score: 1

      people who don't understand the DNS have no business trying to make technical proposals for changing it. if for instance you don't understand how increasing the number of TLDs affects DNS cache locality, and how this affects root server bandwidth and availability, you don't have a leg to stand on.

      Ok, I'll bite - what are the techincal issues? I'm sure most people would be more interested in that then in your your flame of the parent post.

    2. Re:the larger the net, the lower the clue density by keithmoore · · Score: 1

      It's fairly easy to understand once you think about it. The point of my previous post was to give people an opportunity to think about it for themselves.

      A local DNS server's cache is only effective if a significant portion of the queries handled by the server can be satisfied with information already present in it's cache. The more TLDs there are, the less likely it will be that the TLD in your query will be found in the local cache. Queries that aren't satisfied by a local cache have to be sent to a root server. With a few hundred million internet users, the overhead starts to add up...

      Of course this hinges on how widely used a particular TLD is. An extremely popular TLD (like .COM) is likely to already be present in any given cache, while a TLD that isn't widely used (like many countries' TLDs) is not likely to be present. Bogus TLDs (like ".local") or unofficial TLDs are the worst of all - they hit a root server every time somebody tries to use one in a DNS query.

      It's tempting to say "just add more root servers", but the more root servers there are, the harder it is to keep them consistent with one another. (for both technical and political reasons). Also due to DNS protocol limitations it has been difficult add more root server NS records to DNS, though this is being worked on.

      Like most everything else in the Internet, DNS is exhibiting scaling limitations. Good engineering in the face of such limitations requires carefully chosen compromises that are well-informed by thorough understanding and accurate measurement - not off-the-cuff proposals from people who aren't even aware of the more obvious problems with DNS.

      Sorry if this sounds unpleasant. Truth is that way sometimes.

    3. Re:the larger the net, the lower the clue density by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      Sorry if this sounds unpleasant. Truth is that way sometimes.

      But it doesn't sound unpleasant. None of what you said suggests there's any real obstacle at all.

      Today there are only 6 TLDs that get substantial use (in the US): com net org edu gov mil. That's such a tiny number that keeping them cached is absolutely trivial. If there were 60 major TLDs instead of just 6, it would still require only 500 bytes to cache them all. And I've already used more than 500 bytes writing this message!

      Like most everything else in the Internet, DNS is exhibiting scaling limitations.

      There are some problems with DNS scaling, but they have nothing to do with the number of TLDs.

      There's no reason to think that increasing the number of TLDs by 10x or even 100x will cause a perceptible problem. DNS was designed with that "good engineering" you mentioned, and it scales fine.

      (The fact that bogus TLDs cause a performance hit is true, but completely irrelevant to the question of adding more TLDs)

    4. Re:the larger the net, the lower the clue density by guanxi · · Score: 1

      Thanks ... I know little about the internal functioning of a DNS server, though I understand it in terms of input and output.

      Why would 1,000 domains using 3 TLDs be easier to process than 1,000 domains with 1,000 TLDs?

      An extremely popular TLD (like .COM) is likely to already be present in any given cache

      Does a local DNS server cache only complete TLDs? That is, it would cache all of .COM, and not only the locally most popular (e.g.) 30%?

    5. Re:the larger the net, the lower the clue density by keithmoore · · Score: 1

      Today there are only 6 TLDs that get substantial use (in the US): com net org edu gov mil. That's such a tiny number that keeping them cached is absolutely trivial. If there were 60 major TLDs instead of just 6, it would still require only 500 bytes to cache them all. And I've already used more than 500 bytes writing this message!

      It's not the amount of storage that matters here, it's the number of hits on the root servers. Every time a cache server gets rebooted (i.e. has its cache flushed) it has to hit the root server for every new TLD that it sees until the next reboot (or cache flush). There are easily tens of thousands of cache servers out there. Note that DNS caching is essentially flat.

      There are some problems with DNS scaling, but they have nothing to do with the number of TLDs.


      Denial may be a fact of life, but it isn't pretty.

    6. Re:the larger the net, the lower the clue density by keithmoore · · Score: 1

      Why would 1,000 domains using 3 TLDs be easier to process than 1,000 domains with 1,000 TLDs?

      TLD queries go to the root servers, which are few in number. Second-level queries go to whatever servers the NS records for the TLDs point to. 1000 TLDs means 1000 queries to a root server for every DNS cache that sees queries for those TLDs. Fewer TLDs means fewer queries to the root servers.

      Cache servers don't keep track of all records in a zone, only the ones they've seen as the result of previous queries. So a cache won't keep track of all of the records in .COM, for example. Rather, the first time a cache sees a query for a domain ending in .COM, it forwards that query to the root. The root responds with an answer that says "the DNS server for .COM is at IP address x.x.x.x". The cache then forwards the query to that server, but it also remembers the mapping from .COM to x.x.x.x so it won't have to ask the root again. So for a TLD zone the cache only keeps track of mappings from TLDs to the IP addresses of the servers for those TLDs.

      (this is of course slightly simplified)

    7. Re:the larger the net, the lower the clue density by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      It's not the amount of storage that matters here, it's the number of hits on the root servers.

      The fact that so little storage is needed means that cache misses will be rare.

      As you even mentioned yourself, the biggest cause of hammering root servers is when a client repeatedly asks for a TLD that doesn't exist at all.

      Every time a cache server gets rebooted (i.e. has its cache flushed)

      There is no reason to equate reboots with cache flushes. There's this thing called a "hard disk"- and as I just explained, because the storage needs are so tiny, 10 megabytes of disk space will be more than enough for TLD needs.

      Denial may be a fact of life, but it isn't pretty.

      Introspective I see...

    8. Re:the larger the net, the lower the clue density by keithmoore · · Score: 1

      The fact that so little storage is needed means that cache misses will be rare.

      nope. size and granularity are not the same thin g.

      As you even mentioned yourself, the biggest cause of hammering root servers is when a client repeatedly asks for a TLD that doesn't exist at all.

      yes, but that's a separate problem that requires a separate solution. it's not an license to further increase the load on the root servers.

      There is no reason to equate reboots with cache flushes. There's this thing called a "hard disk"

      It's an implementation issue. In practice, many cache servers do lose their memories when they are rebooted. The sheer number of cache servers means it's not easy to fix this problem.

      and as I just explained, because the storage needs are so tiny, 10 megabytes of disk space will be more than enough for TLD needs.

      maybe if the DNS protocol were designed differently, that would even be relevant.

  65. WTF?!? by rs79 · · Score: 1

    YOU can't keep track of this so the entire internet suffers? Nice.

    Traditionally on the internet problems like this are solved by the creation of new resources, not regulation and limitation of existing ones.

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  66. Tastes great/less filling by rs79 · · Score: 1

    Is it a free market? Is it infrastructure?

    To who? To me? To you?

    Dude, it's neither. It's a way of referring to services by name instead of number. Any interpretation you put on it other than that is just, well, your iterpretation of it.

    DNS isn't this or that, it just is. The only property everybody agrees on is that it should work. After that you're free to look at it any way you wish, although it would be nice if you didn't prevent other people from having a dissimilar view if they're doing no harm.

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  67. Dumb by rs79 · · Score: 1

    You didn'y HAVE to do that, you chose to. If somebody used a similar name to yours either the court system takes care of them if they're infringing on your mark or it won't cause they aren't.

    You tell me what your name is and I'll find you a dozen names you didn't register that are still available in .com that will very probably piss you off. But I can legitimatly use them. Take them away from me and I can find 12 more. I can do this all day/week/year.

    This kind of thinking is really dumb, offfensive not defensive and just a waste of time, money and resources.

    Get a lawyer. If you have one already, fire him, he's an idiot.

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  68. It's not a trademark issue by Anders+Andersson · · Score: 1
    Why make such a big deal about trying to solve a problem that's already solved? Create all the TLDs that you want. I guarantee that if someone other than Kodak tries to register Kodak.blah, the registrant of Kodak.blah will be shut down. It's a non-issue.

    What problem are you calling a non-issue? Tim Berners-Lee isn't trying to make the DNS resolve trademark disputes; he wants the DNS to resolve names into numbers and other data, to serve a technical rather than legal purpose. In his plea to ICANN, he argues that the proposed new TLDs are poorly motivated, and that their introduction makes for increased costs and confusion to everybody on the Internet.

    The first TLDs were defined as a very general classification of the entities named under them, such as whether it was a government or business entity. That classification remains, although it has been confused by registrations not adhering to it, such as websites under .NET not affiliated with any particular network operator.

    If ICANN were to allow anybody to register their own TLDs (requiring uniqueness of the name only), we would effectively be back to the flat namespace we had before the DNS, although this time with potentially millions of domains rather than just a few thousand. Besides, I doubt the root name servers would stand the load. Maybe they could be redesigned, but I don't see the cost of doing it motivated by the dubious benefit of having a "kodak" domain where before we had "kodak.com".

  69. brands by zlel · · Score: 1

    If the grounds for dispute for trademark ownership is whether or not a name may be mistaken for a registered trademark, could education make microsoft.com look so different from microsoft.org that disputes may go the way of the pillow case? Then maybe we'd be doing justice to the expansion of TLD namespace?

  70. Doesn't scale by rs79 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Dude, that's even more lame than hosts.txt. If you do the math you'd see there is no data trasnport big enough to prevent the root servers from melting down. Yo could decentralize it by having each host have the entire hosts file. You have a spare terrabyte on each machine that wants to do this, jah, to say nothing of the costs to trnasport the daily updates to that file.

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    1. Re:Doesn't scale by Luyseyal · · Score: 1

      This is a non-issue. They *already* manage the insanely huge .com 2LD namespace. Making TLDs like "eat%20at%20joes" would not be hard in computation, network traffic, or space. It just devalues the trademark lawyers (OH NO!).

      -l

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    2. Re:Doesn't scale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      terrabyte

      Is that like a chunk of earth?

  71. People didn't listen because it's not true by rs79 · · Score: 1

    What makes you think it is?

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  72. Why this wo't work by rs79 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Placing unrealistic obstacles in the way of eveyrbody is not the Internet way. That's the ISO way and look how stunningly successful THAT was.

    NSI tried to enforce .net registrations. What they found was dishonest people were able to get .net domregs and honest people were inconvenienced at best and denied at worst.

    As to verifying identity this is at odds with the greater consumer demand for low cost registration. Just how much work are YOU willing to do for six bucks? How often will you reverify the name? While it's possible to verify some US identities with existing services for under a buck this all falls apart once you say "outside the US".

    Whois is a convenince, not a technical requirement. At the end of the day the DNS is a system for naming computers on a network, the additional whims and desires various humans put on top of that are the subject of great disagreement.

    The internet works by consensue, not truth. Never confuse turh with consensus" - Brian Reid

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  73. dom-com was everyone else... by alexhmit01 · · Score: 1

    Back in the day, you had to prove to be educational for .edu (my high school grabbed their .edu before K-12 got sent to the backwaters of k-12.city.state.ud, proof non-profit for .org, and proof network infrastructure for .net... otherwise you got stuck with .com. Everyone wanted .net, .com was for everyone else...

    The web changed that a bit...

    Alex

  74. Genuinely useful TLD's by cgenman · · Score: 2, Funny
    .spam - all spam must originate from a .spam address. It also must go to a .spam address, as a form of opting in.

    .xxx - I hate having to wade through all of those medical sites looking for real naughty bits.

    .gog - why go to the site when you can go to google's cache of the site?

    .sucks - Want to know the other side of the story? For that matter, want to pay a cybersquatter to make sure that nobody else does?

    .con - Make it far easier to scam unwitting illiterate computer users. Only compatible with Outlook.

    .© - Hide your most valuable works behind an impenetrable shield of people's incompetence with a keyboard.

  75. An actual use for .biz and .info... by clheiny · · Score: 1

    They make excellent keywords in spam filters - no false positives so far based on those two (well, for me. YMMV).

    --
    Racing is an addiction that makes heroin look like a vague hankering for something crunchy.
  76. The idea is still around, and it's still stupid. by mbauser2 · · Score: 1

    .xxx is once again one of the new TLDs being considered by ICANN, but everybody with a brain knows it won't work. Among other things, you'll never get a world-wide definition of "XXX content", let alone a world-wide law for keeping XXX content in a .xxx TLD. (The nations of the world still can't agree on the what's a "good war" and what's a "bad war"; there's no way they'll agree on the difference between "good nudity" and "bad nudity".)

    In fact, the TimBL paper we're supposed to be talking about includes a link to one explanation of why .xxx won't work as advertised. There's also RFC 3675.

    If you look at the recently closed public comment period on .xxx, you'll notice a frightening progression: .xxx supporters say ".xxx will protect children." Saner people point out how it won't. Lusers respond with increasinly draconian suggestions for regulating the Internet, like blocking all connections between the United States and countries that don't abide by U.S. laws about adult content.

    Support for .xxx is support for Internet censorship. Please don't encourage those people.

    --
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  77. Re: Enough non-nonsense domain names? by some+guy+I+know · · Score: 1

    You have to remember that not all nonsense names won't be wanted.

    For example, I was able to register a four-letter domain (sgik.org) because it looks like nonsense to most people (except maybe Silicon Graphics, Incorporated), but it's just what I wanted.

    Also, it's just not the 26 unaccented letters that are available, but accented letters, numbers, and some punctuation.
    Non-latin UNICODE characters are also becoming more widely used.

    --
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  78. Unrestricted TLDs would destablize the Net. by mbauser2 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    If anyone was (easily and accessibly) able to create their own TLD and sell (or give away) names underneath them on their own terms, it would reduce the motivation for businesses to go and snap up every single variation of their name under every TLD.


    Instead, it would encourage every lunatic and his brother to "create" as many TLDs as they can think of, in case they think of that accidentally becomes valuable. It would just move domain-speculation up the TLD level. We'd have TLDs being created nearly at random, not used, poorly managed, and dropped when "the registry" loses interest. Try to picture an Internet where an entire TLD can become nonresponsive just because the "anyone" who created it doesn't want the job anymore.

    The Internet would not be served well by TLDs becoming as undependable as the average domain. While I'm not convinced that ICANN is perfect, I am pretty sure that we need some vetting and regulation of new TLDs to make sure that TLD registries are serious proposals, and not fly-by-night operations.
    --
    Proud to be / Smiley-free / Since Nineteen / Ninety-Three
    1. Re:Unrestricted TLDs would destablize the Net. by Luyseyal · · Score: 1

      The error in your thinking is that you assume TLD = Registry. If TLD = JoeBlow, who cares if JoeBlow isn't accessible anymore? Any registry should be able to support any TLD or 2LD.

      Furthermore, it will devalue 2LDs so much, it will help end their use as the basis for frivolous lawsuits.

      An address should not be a brand!
      -l

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    2. Re:Unrestricted TLDs would destablize the Net. by svallarian · · Score: 1

      So basically it would work like NNTP does now?

      Steven V.

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    3. Re:Unrestricted TLDs would destablize the Net. by mbauser2 · · Score: 1

      Now that you mention it, I had considered comparing TLD-creators to newsgroups moderators, but I thought the comparison might be too obscure.

      TLDs neglected by their creators would be a lot like newsgroups that have "lost" their moderators: Disappointing to people who wanted to use the TLD, and a minor nuisance to everyone involved in managing the DNS.

      Would neglected TLDs just sit there forever, making people wonder what they're for? Or, would the abandoned TLDs just get dropped from the root servers? Or, would new TLD-managers be allowed to take over the TLD and retroactively set new policies for it? What happens when two different people want to take over an abandoned TLD?

      A free-for-all DNS would not be a shiny happy anarchy free of bureaucratic procedures. It would be a loud, tedious anarchy full of ad hoc solutions and petty turf wars.

      I don't think chaos is a clever solution to the current problems. Most countries regulate utilties (electricity, water, phone systems, etc.) because those utilities are important enough to society that stability is worth the paperwork. The domain name system is important, too.

      Simple rule: If you wouldn't want your water company being run out of your neighbor's basement, you probably don't want your TLD run out of it, either.

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    4. Re:Unrestricted TLDs would destablize the Net. by mbauser2 · · Score: 1
      The error in your thinking is that you assume TLD = Registry.


      I assume that because it's true. Each TLD has exactly one registry, because you need a central registry to compile the TLD's zone file.

      You do know the registries create zone files, don't you?

      You're going to have to help me out here: In this parallel universe of yours, who is paying the bills for managing all these TLDs? Letting anybody create a TLD and dump the responsibility on a stranger seems to put all the burden of the system on people running the registries. That isn't really any more equitable than the current system; at best, it's just inequitable in a different manner.

      Furthermore, it will devalue 2LDs so much, it will help end their use as the basis for frivolous lawsuits.


      No, it won't. Frivolous people will continue to do frivolous things no matter how much you mangle the domain name system.

      Also, not all domain-related legal actions are frivolous. (Look at the sex.com case, for example.) Running a TLD is going to involve legal expenses no matter what: somebody has to be able to pay for that.

      An address should not be a brand!


      Agreed, but that's a social/legal problem, not a technical one. DNS anarchy will not make people smarter.
      --
      Proud to be / Smiley-free / Since Nineteen / Ninety-Three
    5. Re:Unrestricted TLDs would destablize the Net. by Luyseyal · · Score: 1

      I thought you were equating registrars and registries. The registrars charge the user and pay the registry. Problem solved. (It's certainly not a technical issue. Karl Auerbach has done some testing just using Bind and 10,000+ TLDs. There was no performance issue at all and there were zero administrative headaches.)

      It's not mangled because the address is totally arbitrary and unimportant. Bookmarks and Google have solved this problem.

      Sex.com was only an issue because the some asshole stole it from someone else. This is a security problem and has nothing to do with .com.

      I like the comment on this article where the guy said Sony should just have .sony (where us.sony would be US, uk.sony for UK, etc.). He has the right idea. Why the hell should anyone have to buy 40zillion 2LDs when one TLD would suffice?

      If lawyers and lawmakers understood the complete arbitrariness of it, they wouldn't make their laws fit an artificially small namespace. They won't understand that it's completely arbitrary until they have a demonstration of it. That demonstration is opening up arbitrary TLDs. Once that is understood, trademarks won't have to be defended in every namespace and stupid DNS lawsuits will stop clogging up my courts.

      -l

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    6. Re:Unrestricted TLDs would destablize the Net. by ericspinder · · Score: 1
      While I aggree with you on you points, I can't pass up this...
      A free-for-all DNS would not be a shiny happy anarchy free of bureaucratic procedures. It would be a loud, tedious anarchy full of ad hoc solutions and petty turf wars.
      Kinda like the Internet in general
      --
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  79. Importance has nothing to do with it by Luyseyal · · Score: 1

    Importance has nothing to do with it. In an "anything goes" TLD system, anything can be TLD, so it doesn't matter what country it is. DNS is just a bloody address. 1234 Anywhere St. If you don't know a site by memory, you go to Google. I do this already, don't you?

    -l

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  80. DNS architecture by Anders+Andersson · · Score: 1

    The appreciation is mutual.

    I tried accessing your website, but it appears both your name servers (ns.globalwebpromotions.com [69.31.33.254] and ns2.globalwebpromotions.com [69.31.33.253]) are inaccessible right now. Back in the old days (early 1990's) connectivity was generally worse, and we made a bit more of an effort to set up several name servers on different networks, for backup.

    Gradually, those efforts became regarded as unnecessary. Today, connectivity is generally better, but when a link goes down for whatever reason, it all too often happens that a number of domains go down with it.

    1. Re:DNS architecture by CyberKnet · · Score: 1

      Gradually, those efforts became regarded as unnecessary. Today, connectivity is generally better, but when a link goes down for whatever reason, it all too often happens that a number of domains go down with it.
      Yeah, my webhost is about to get the boot. Their name server is unreachable to the general internet about once or twice a month. But it's been free, so how do you complain? =) People tend to get what they pay for.

      Thanks for the note though. It'll hasten my change! And also make sure that I remember to ask that all-important question: "Are you name servers multi-homed?"

      On an unrelated note, you didn't miss much on the website. It's a very simple looking php site that isn't (even nearly) finished and attempts to look like a slash-dot forum =) Maybe on my new host I'll find the next language-of-the-month and half-implement another half-baked idea!

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