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1.) klik is about a year old & is not new software.
2.) klik was first developed to install applications on in Knoppix (which uses KDE). Since Knoppix is on a read-only medium (CD-Rs) the dependecy on KDE was a real one.
3.) klik on longer depends on KDE. Just RTFA for once please.
4.) As far as I know, probono the developer of klik is not a official KDE developer.
Try googling or reading instead of posting First forum post by probono about klik back in Jan of 2004

One existing user of bundled applications on GNU/Linux is klik which was originally designed for installing additional programs on Knoppix by simply installing the klik client and clicking on links on the klik site. Klik has evolved since it's inception so that now it builds compressed images as bundles, supports 4 distributions (Knoppix 3.7, Kanotix BHZ, Simply MEPIS 2004.04 and Linspire 5.0), can work with dialog|Xdialog aswell as kdialog and firefox|elinks aswell as konqueror and finally offers the entire debian sid archive by klik (and many other changes). This is "next generation" klik, and while it is still evolving it is a very useful tool especially for debian based systems and livecds in particular.

A lot of the posts in this thread seem to repeat the same arguments against bundles (the duplication and security issues of having shared libraries in bundles) but nobody mentions the prime advantage I see in them. They can be summarised with this present from probono, a cmg of OpenOffice.org 1.9.65 which can run on many distributions (it uses a Linux transparent compressed iso for it's image rather then the normal cramfs to extend compatibility). So you can try out a preview release of ooo2 without having to upgrade any of your system, no need to have a test setup to try it out or wonder what risks you are taking that you might break something trying out experimental software.

Another aspect which klik deals with in it's own way that hasn't been discussed much here is that klik assumes a base system, the set of all packages installed in all it's supported systems with the minimum expected version being the lowest version in any of the supported distributions. This means that everything in the base system of your distribution is still handled everywhere by it (so updating your base system updates the common packages), everything outside of this will be bundled in any applications which need it.

Just remember to look at the klik docs and the klik forum if you have any problems.

One existing user of bundled applications on GNU/Linux is klik which was originally designed for installing additional programs on Knoppix by simply installing the klik client and clicking on links on the klik site. Klik has evolved since it's inception so that now it builds compressed images as bundles, supports 4 distributions (Knoppix 3.7, Kanotix BHZ, Simply MEPIS 2004.04 and Linspire 5.0), can work with dialog|Xdialog aswell as kdialog and firefox|elinks aswell as konqueror and finally offers the entire debian sid archive by klik (and many other changes). This is "next generation" klik, and while it is still evolving it is a very useful tool especially for debian based systems and livecds in particular.

A lot of the posts in this thread seem to repeat the same arguments against bundles (the duplication and security issues of having shared libraries in bundles) but nobody mentions the prime advantage I see in them. They can be summarised with this present from probono, a cmg of OpenOffice.org 1.9.65 which can run on many distributions (it uses a Linux transparent compressed iso for it's image rather then the normal cramfs to extend compatibility). So you can try out a preview release of ooo2 without having to upgrade any of your system, no need to have a test setup to try it out or wonder what risks you are taking that you might break something trying out experimental software.

Another aspect which klik deals with in it's own way that hasn't been discussed much here is that klik assumes a base system, the set of all packages installed in all it's supported systems with the minimum expected version being the lowest version in any of the supported distributions. This means that everything in the base system of your distribution is still handled everywhere by it (so updating your base system updates the common packages), everything outside of this will be bundled in any applications which need it.

Just remember to look at the klik docs and the klik forum if you have any problems.

I'm not running any sort of heavy duty server, so fucking forget dealing with Linux.

Umm, these days Linux runs on watches, PVRs, routers, desktops, toasters, and, yes, servers too.

It's also pretty easy to use, if you use the right distro.

All joking aside, would Microsoft's marketing of a spyware removal tool constitute acknowledgement of critical design flaws in their product which they have no intention of fixing? (He asks as he fires up his LawSuitOMatic...)

People are using knoppix for this all the time; I can tell by the amount of email I deal with on the subject.

Some cautions:

Not all mirrors have the current version (3.7), some only seem to have 3.6.

Get the version with EN in the name for the English version, the version with DE in the name for the German version.

Some mirrors are much slower than others, some may not be available at all.

Download and check the md5 sum. I have seem a lot of problems with corruption of Knoppix downloads from FTP and HTTP sites, if you can't be bothered to check the md5 sum then maybe you shouldn't be running Linux. And know how to burn an ISO properly and burn it at 4x.

I recommend downloading it via bit torrent here.

FYI:
The last time I used the official Knoppix 3.6 for windows recovery, captive-ntfs, which enables linux to use the native ntfs drivers on the windows system for rock solid reliability, was broken. Although reading is possible, you should never write to an ntfs volume without captive-ntfs.

fix: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=60253

Sorry, I've never used the "bootfrom" option. Maybe try the Knoppix forum?

I've been playing around with remastering Knoppix on and off for the last week or so... I've had the best luck with the instructions in this forum post. It's a lot easier than the wiki instructions, and it's current. YMMV.

You probably want Knoppix or Morphix. http://www.knoppix.net/docs/index.php/KnoppixRemas teringHowto has useful info. So does: http://www.morphix.org/modules/sections/index.php? op=listarticles&secid=2 G

...I would drop XP in a heartbeat.

Why? XP has many apps that don't run, or run poorly, on linux. You can't expect every application developer to port their code to every OS out there, and many end up only supporting Windows. And many others only support UNIX variants. Set up a dual-boot system and use whatever OS better fits your needs for the moment.

...can be found here.

What point are you trying to make overall? That bittorrent should be illegal because there are other sources of the files?

No problems with bad labels here. Video Game Demos (those things are getting huge!). Sourceforge clearly labels the downloads and organizes them in a way that BT doesn't.

HUH? I have very good luck and speed with torrents when compared to a more conventional mirror. Check out the latest stats for this Knoppix torrent. Over 30k downloads and roughly 20TB. The link to the torrent download is on the same page that lists the conventional mirror sites, what is mislabeled or hard to figure out? Are you making stuff up?

Using your line of thought, we should ban FTP because you can use http to get files also.

Google would be better for most of this.

How many files have you downloaded from Google? I bet it was NONE. Google will help you FIND the link to what you search for. That link can be a ftp, http, or bittorrent link to the actual content.

If you're already comfortable with Knoppix I'd suggest you just install it. You can see the FAQ here http://www.knoppix.net/docs/index.php/FaqInstall.

What that gives you is a fairly complete Debian system, so once you have a net connection you can use apt to update it.

In a day, I was basically able to create a new Knoppix CD that can:

• run gkrellm & xosview (I have no idea why they omitted these very useful system status packages)
• run extra network utilities like etherape and netcat
• has ntfs.sys & ntoskernel.dll for captive-ntfs already in /var/lib/captive/ (unfortunately, knoppix creates symlinks from the readonly /var to a rw /var on ramdisk, which captive-ntfs doesn't like for some reason. Anyway, need a bootup script that removes those symlinks and copies the actual files to the /var ramdisk)
• run freedos under xdosemu, with the filesystem already populated with some DOS-based system rescue software such as Ghost and PowerQuest DriveImage. This gives the added benefit that I can do backups and restores using these programs over the network by mounting the file server with the images via NFS or SMB (unfortunately, this only works with Ghost, PowerQuest fails to write large files to the Linux filesystem which dosemu exposes as a "DOS network drive" with lredir). Wish dosemu.conf still allowed "wholedisk" access, but should be able to hack up a script that will automatically add detected partitions to dosemu.conf
• updated mozilla / firefox browser
• be free of cruft (games, openoffice-de, etc.)
• boot kernel 2.6 by default (change the syslinux.conf boot options)
• use a custom work-related desktop background :P

You have to make it yourself. That remaster has files that are copyright MS on it. You'll need a fairly beefy machine to do it in less than geological time. A machine that is at least 1GHz and 512MB(+ 1GB swap) of memory gets tolerable. I use a 2.4Ghz PIV with a GB of RAM. That will spit an iso out in about 7 minutes. You will also need at least 3GB of disk space to hold the uncompressed distro and the iso you will make from it. Follow the instructions here.

Knoppix IS Debian so you'll need some Debian knowledge to update the package database and to add and remove files. You will be doing most of the work in a chroot so you DON'T need a Debian machine to make a remaster. You can even boot from a KNOPPIX cd and create it that way.

Once you've created your Knoppix development environment according to the instructions, you do these things to enable captive.

1. Create a captive user.
2. Create a captive group.
3. captive-install-acquire

Cheers!

Clickable: http://www.knoppix.net/docs/index.php/HdInstallHow To

Check out official forums for confirmation. ISO available here, why not use the Coral Cache and save a /.ing? It has nifty new firewalling in addition to all the usual updates. This version was released from the German PC-Welt magazine and is in German only, but using lang=whatever at boot time will cure that. It will obviously differ from the 'official' 3.7 CD which should come out soon, but not by much - so worth a CD-RW for the curious I suppose. md5sums are spewed around the net, no point me quoting one as I am not to be trusted (TM). testcd is a useful check.

Check out official forums for confirmation. ISO available here, why not use the Coral Cache and save a /.ing? It has nifty new firewalling in addition to all the usual updates. This version was released from the German PC-Welt magazine and is in German only, but using lang=whatever at boot time will cure that. It will obviously differ from the 'official' 3.7 CD which should come out soon, but not by much - so worth a CD-RW for the curious I suppose. md5sums are spewed around the net, no point me quoting one as I am not to be trusted (TM). testcd is a useful check.

Actually, the gripe is a legitimate one, although very poorly presented. I'm a regular on the Knoppin forums at www.knoppix.net and I constantly see people posting problems with things (mostly simple networking) that worked fine under Knoppix when running from the CD but stopped working as soon as Knoppix was installed to hard disk. Most of the time this seems to be simple permission issues or something that for some reason I don't understand needs to be added to a configuration file. But it's been going on for years and the install scripts never seem to get around to addressing it and making the premissioins right. See for yourself by scanning this forum.

I just write it off to the arogance that almost all Linux geeks seem to have for newcomers who don't know the cryptic commands to change permissions or all the magic places startup configuration stuff is stored. The geeks who master Knoppix must come across the same problems, but just know where to go to twiddle the right bits to make everything right. That they don't "bother" to go back and make the HD install scripts do this seems strange.

For those not in the know, "Knoppix is a GNU/Linux distribution that boots and runs completely from CD." (Source: www.knoppix.net).

So it is kind of hard for a Knoppix installation to become corrupt; worst case scenario is you just burn new copy of the Knoppix CD. :-) The parent comment is in fact funny (and quite so!), rather than insightful as it's currently moderated. ;-)

Knoppix 3.7 is not a normal Knoppix release. It is like the Linuxtag editions, in that it is a special version made for a specific release (in this case PC-Welt). Unlike the Linuxtag editions, it does not seem to have any extra non-free/non-redistributable components though so there is no real problem with people firing the iso around. Now whether or not there is any real worth to 3.7 V 3.6 is debatable, the main addition is the firewall, which is implemented by using a config script on the cd.

And for anyone who is trying this version (or any other German/DE Knoppix version) it might be worth noting that SHIFT+0 on an English keyboard is the = so when you want to use lang=us/uk/ie (ie for Ireland, a Euro-English setup) cheatcodes you mightn't spend so long hitting keys until you find it. Alternatively you can edit the iso directly to change the language option, or overwrite the blank default boot config with any options you want, or extract the contents of the iso, edit and mkisofs again (just make sure you use the full correct mkisofs line from knoppix.net. Of course if you just make simple edits like this testcd will fail unless you recreate the MD5SUMS on the cd.

Bug #267338 (note the "Update 2: The problem is NOT fixed in 2.6.8.1"

From here: Consensus on this seems to be that the kernel will not be fixed, that the old way the userland tools used to speak to the burners involve security holes, and thus the userland tools (cdrecord and co) need to be fixed.

Another thread here: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13501 &highlight=

I understand that cdrecord works properly when run as root, so maybe that's what you're doing (maybe suid)?

On an nVidia MX 400 card, AA is playable and actually pretty fun online, but shadows are mostly chunks of squares on the ground. Otherwise, rpg's and smoke grenades look fantastic. I wonder why they didn't do comparisons of at least AA? I would think that's one of the first games people download for Linux especially because it's free.

Oh yeah, I had some original difficulty installing the nvidia drivers on a knoppix hd install with the 2.6 kernel, but I finally got it running well and documented the installation here: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10314 &highlight=

Has anyone made a UserLinux LiveCD yet or is that my next challenge (armed with Fabian's new remastering tool and perhaps I'll even try rolling in some automation of the lazy umount method of removing the cd, I don't need much of an excuse but I suspect I might have to do some fixing up so if anyone has already started ... :-)

Has anyone made a UserLinux LiveCD yet or is that my next challenge (armed with Fabian's new remastering tool and perhaps I'll even try rolling in some automation of the lazy umount method of removing the cd, I don't need much of an excuse but I suspect I might have to do some fixing up so if anyone has already started ... :-)

It's pretty easy to just throw in a Knoppix disk, reboot, mount a drive, and copy things away at your leisure. They'd probably be better off filling the USB connectors with cement than relying on software.

So what happens when they download the DVD Bootable Debian Linux with a little help from the scalable download mechanism and reboot ?

Does it come with a Knoppix CD in the back ? How about a Knoppix DVD ?

Does it come with a Knoppix CD in the back ? How about a Knoppix DVD ?

It is offered on the official bittorrent links, so I'm guessing they want to seed some bittorrents and mirrors before announcing to the world and having hordes of people download it. If they release it by bittorrent, the bandwidth usage is spread across all the users, and once the beginning /. (etc.) demand is satisfied, they can let the rest of the people use ftp. It's a nice way of combatting the /. effect, and the flood to the mirrors that result from it.

There's a forum post on official forums, and the Official torrent link also has the 3.6.

I find it odd that version 3.6 is not mentioned on the Official Knoppix site, or on Knoppix.net.

Can someone explain that? Is 3.6 a trojan?

Version 3.5 exists only as a DVD version. Check this page if you want to download it.

Some distros suck at recognizing some configurations, while another distro will recognize it without problems. A pain in the butt, but go figure.

You didn't mention which distro(s) you tried, but first try the Knoppix live CD here or here. Its hardware recognition is very good and if it recognizes your hardware, it takes about 20 minutes to install to your hard drive (YMMV).

Regarding printers. Some printers are better supported under Linux than others. Go here to see how well your printer is supported. Go here for more help.

Check your scanner compatibility here. And find more help here.

If you still can't get Linux to work, stick with windows, it's not that bad.

So why not just have your unix shell account on your desktop machine? If you are not already using Mac or Linux, it's easy to create a dual-boot with the Mandrake install CDs, or have a portable solution with a Knoppix CD and a USB stick.

i tried suse the other week. modem and wireless card don't work with linux. not buying new ones. back to windows for me.

You probably have a laptop able to run Knoppix, much more powerfula nd fun than waht the OP can. See here for how to save your config data, either to a hard disk (You are allowed to just store data, aren't you?) or floppy, or any other drive.

It should be simple enough. Here's a FAQ on it even: link

"My impression is that the stuff being forced onto the Linux desktop is as huge of a bloated and hacked mess as anything coming out of Redmond,"
Where do you get this impression? With Linux, you have lots of choices. If you like KDE (as I do), you may have larger files; however, I do not find my desktop to be "a bloated and hacked mess." If you want to save hard drive space, use a smaller desktop or use Knoppix. Linux is about allowing you to configure your computer the way you want it. I find that I like gentoo a great deal.
I believe you are misinformed about Linux. If you have specific examples of bloated and hacked desktop applications on Linux, I am curious to hear about them.

One good way to test the modem thing is to use a live CD distro of debian. Knoppix would be a good call.

In trying to convert my parents, I weened them off of software first. Since firefox, thunderbird and OO.org run on windows as well I started there. Now they are ready for a debian install as they are used to using those three packages and mainly what they do on the comp is that stuff. Only questions left is there MP3 player and digicam. I plan on using Knoppix to test that angle.

I should also note that in my current job I've gotten firefox and thunderbird accepted as the department standard browser/email client. OO.org is still in conversations. It's just too bad I won't be here to complete the cycle and get them on debian. Oh well, onto bigger and better things.

Suggestion: Set-up your computer to Dual-Boot Linux with Window.

Step 1: Install Windows with extra unpartitioned drive space (about 3-5 GB should do, depending on your system). Step 2: Install Linux.

I'd suggest either Mandrake 10.0 or Xandros Desktop OS Open Circulation Edition.

Mandrake is very user friendly and Xandros is aimed at Windows users.

Step 3: Configure LILO for Dual Boot. (Easier than it sounds)

Alternately you can download Knoppix 3.4 and boot directly from the CD.

Just boot from a Knoppix CD, and shred your hard drive from there.

I had a windows 2000 laptop with a bad hard drive that would no longer even boot. I had to send the old hard drive back to Dell. I used this method to securely erase it before I sent it back.

I was pretty impressed that shred could still do its thing without crashing even though the drive was having continuous write failures. There was probably some data left in the bad sectors, though, but that's much better than sending back a drive full of my data!

Anyone see a list of changes? I'm particularly interested to know if they've integrated the NTFS read/write libraries.

Dropping KOffice just makes sense.

Give me a version that will build a FreeBSD/KDE3/OpenOffice/Java CD to my specifications and I'll be in heaven. :-D

Anyone see a list of changes? I'm particularly interested to know if they've integrated the NTFS read/write libraries.

Dropping KOffice just makes sense.

Give me a version that will build a FreeBSD/KDE3/OpenOffice/Java CD to my specifications and I'll be in heaven. :-D

If he does it again though I'm sure that he'll be deported or maybe even defenistratred.

Whoa, you're harsh! Sending him away is one thing, but making him run Linux? Damn!

(Disclaimer: I'm trying to defenestrate, with limited success. I can run Frozen Bubble, at least.)

Actually, there is an excellent Debian installer out, and it's been out for a while. It's called Knoppix. You can test compatibility at the store by booting into it, get a live preview of everything, and install a complete system with a recent set of packages with one command. While it uses KDE by default, it's easy to switch to Gnome.

Try Knoppix. My personal experience with hardware identification with Knoppix has been better than any other distro on this point.

Well, you can get close to this by running a live Linux CD such as Knoppix on a PC with no hard disk or other permanent storage. Boot the CD, do what you need to do online, then shut it off. If you happen to catch something while online, it'll be gone when you shut down (unless it finds some way to hide in NVRAM). Sounds pretty close to a network appliance doesn't it?