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Having just tried Linux myself, I didn't find it easy to use, simply because I didn't know how to use the CLI.

Depending on what Linux distro and how it is setup Linux can be just as easy as Windows. Years ago Linspire offered a distro that resembled Windows but was easier to use. PlugNPlay worked right out of the box, literally. I bought a new PC with Linspire preinstalled. At home I unpacked and set it up. When I booted up it automatically detected my cable modem and external hard drives. I didn't have to do anything to configure them. Once it was booted up it offered to connect to the net, download, and install updates. With CNR, ClickNRun, you simply choose what software you want to install. CNR supports both open source and proprietary programs and to install one all it takes is to click on the program. To uninstall a program is just as easy. Using Ubuntu installing programs are just about as easy. If you want to use CNR with Ubuntu there is a client you can use, it also works with a number of other Linux distros.

You can embrace OSS while still sticking with the familiar windows or macintosh environment.

I think is a better approach to introducing open source than switching to Linux. With OS X and Windows a lot of proprietary can be easily installed and used to fill gaps that open source leaves open.

Falcon

I am former Linspire user, now I use Freespire.
You can see a picture of me using Linspire here:
http://www.linspire.com/lraiser_success.php?serial=318
(rather old picture anyway).
My main cmoputer iss an HP Pavilion dv 5000 laptop. Ubuntu prior 8.04 didn't recognize the wifi card (unless you do extensive hacking, to have a sub-standart result). With Freespire it works "out of the box" (using NDISwrapper). Everything work very easy, even easier than Ubuntu (my wife machine, a Sony VAIO VGN-CR220E, uses Ubuntu).
But I tried the 8.04 liveCD in my HP and a wizard downloaded the driver for my wifi, so there is no need to keep on using Freespire, but I didn't found time to make the change, yet.
CNR is a big selling point of Freespire/Linspire, but it will be available to Ubuntu AFAIK. (see http://www.cnr.com./
Freespire were releasing several products every month at the beginning, but now they are somehow without to much activity.
If you value your time, Linspire is not a bad choice.

Before I go into monologue mode, it looks like Dell already has something in the ultra slim ultra cheap arena. Dell EPP Inspiron 530S starts under $400, ok not as cheap as the Asus solution, but still.

I used to fiddle (read: work for a living) with X. You had various window managers, configured them, etc, etc, etc. (Cue the dead horse.)

I read here that it's about the desktop, but when has the Linux community embraced strategies to oust Windows?

There was Lindows - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_vs._Lindows - but in googling for it, I came across this, that I didn't know about:

http://www.linspire.com/

Seems to claim to deal with codecs and have a Window-sy interface. Also - mass market support at US$199 at Sears.

If adoption - as other posters above have suggested - is about a mass-retailer support, a low but not free machine, an easier interface, a pre-installed GNU/Linux, codec support so it just works, and an easier interface without a large learning curve, then this beast should be setting the world on fire.

It's not.

In addition, they claim to protect buyers from the wrath of MS patent rage and support all sorts of needed capabilities.

And they charge money for it - US$49.95 for a "digital download" (gotta love marketeers). Still not setting the world on fire.

I think back to the unspoken covenants I faced when I turned to OS X. "You can't any software for the Mac!" "Yes, I can. There MS Office, built-in apps, and Fink!" "But, I have free copies of ...."

I wonder how far we've put our heads in the sand over application piracy being the principal driver dooming the world to Windows.

I know - but stopped associating with - all sorts of Windows guys trading software because _they could_. Makes me wonder how much of the perceived value of a Windows box is offset by pirated applications.

It's not because Windows itself is perceived to have value, nor because you can't get a decent machine at low cost from a major retailer with Ubuntu installed, etc.

So, I'm just saying.... maybe it's time to speak up for the real problem.

Not exactly. They also care about ease of use, and Linux is not, nor has it ever been, easy.

That depends on the distro. More than a year ago I bought a new PC with Linspire preinstalled. After setting it up I booted it and when the desktop was ready it looked like Windows. It was pretty easy to use. Heck, to connect to the internet all I had to do was connect the PC to my router. Linspire automatically configured the connection. I even got a pop up saying updates were available and did I want to download them. And now with Linspire's, Click N Run, CNR, that's all that's needed to install software, a simply click. After locating what you want to download and install. Not only that, but CNR allows people to download legal media codecs. Some have to be paid for but they are legal.

... but I am as confident as I am that the Sun will rise tomorrow that it will be safe from terrorists. After all, we have the children to think about.

July 12, 2005

Copyright © 2005 Michael David Crawford.

This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 2.5 License.

It seems that David Clark, who led the development of the Internet way back in the '70's - did you know there even was a '70's? - wants to create a whole new Internet that will fix many of the problems the current Internet is plagued with. The New Internet's engineers will be much more careful this time around to make sure it works better than the first one did.

I'm afraid, though, that the engineers are not the only ones who will be deciding how our New Internet will work.

If one is able to find any privacy or anonymity in this New Internet, it will be because of some undiscovered security hole, which will be quickly repaired, rather than any kind of conscious design decision. Probably one reason they are accepting proposals before rolling it out is to avoid the sort of accidental security holes that enable pr0n, peer-to-peer filesharing and left-wing political activism.

Microsoft, a leading contributor both to this nation's technology base and to the campaign coffers of its leaders, will embrace this new technology and extend it in such a way that the development and dissemination of Open Source software will be, if not mathematically and physically impossible, at least as intractible as factoring a 2048-bit public key.

Imagine, if you will, Trusted Computing implemented at the router level, in such a way that any packets that go farther than one hop are certified not only to support protocols whose patent licenses are fully paid-up and on file with the legal department in Redmond, but whose content is compliant with the Windows standard. The faintest whisp of a Public License, GNU or otherwise, will result in the dropping not only of the individual packet, not only in the cancellation of the entire file transmission, but, within microseconds, the reporting of the physical location of the offending server to responsible law enforcement personnel. The identities of its rogue administrators will be fetched instantly from the database maintained by the Department of Homeland Security. (You will have to submit fingerprints and DNA samples to obtain a Windows server license, as after all, Internet servers can be used to disseminate explosives r

Umm... There is, if you look hard enough.

I had been prepared to buy Linspire, or at least get their Click&Run service. I do think that the next leg of Linux's path to maturity involves commercial (not necessarily proprietary) software that runs on the Linux platform.

Then I go visit the Linspire web site, listing all the features:
Plug'n'play drivers: yea!
Multimedia support: yea!
Respects Microsoft IP: --WHAT!??

Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me. Linspire's been having sex with Microsoft.

Oh, well. Was nice knowing you. I'll stick to (k)Ubuntu, myself.

I really love the part on the Linspire website that says "Powered by Ubuntu". http://www.linspire.com/products_linspire_whatis.php?tab=features Priceless (literally!)

I was going to say about the same thing. But check out this FUD http://www.linspire.com/products_linspire_whatis.php. I don't know all the details but I run Ubuntu and allot of the stuff in there they say Ubuntu does not have I do have. CNR? I have apt-get. Is that all that diffrent? KDE? You can get it from apt-get or better yet use Kubuntu. I am all for paying for something worth paying for but it seems like they are grasping at straws here.

Divorce dogmatic ideology from free culture pragmatism. We all know that we want a system that's as free as possible, but to get there, we'll have to deal with the reality as it is today. Having a system that is entirely and perpetually "free as in beer" is a great first step before we can have one that's entirely "free as in speech".

You might want to try Linspire. It has been included in cheap computers in Mexico in the Elektra stores (the BestBuy equivalent for Mexico).

Linsipire gives you, in my opinion the best of both worlds. You get a full blown Linux distro (Linspire is based in Ubuntu) but you also get all the propietary codecs and out of the box functionallity. Oh, and if you buy it, you are spending money in a "good cause" because people at Linspire contribute a lot to the open source community.

I am by no way affiliated to this guys, in fact, I do not even use it (however, I bought one for my father! and he loves it), it might be because I am a cheap bastard, and I stayed with the free Ubuntu and am very happy with it =o)

I have heard this mantra repeated a thousand times on Slashdot and I remain unconvinced.

Allow me to suggest an experiment:

Ask Joe to open Linspire's CNR Warehouse. Let him select the programs he thinks worth downloading - and paying for if that is required. Subtract the number that are available for Windows or OSX.

Then let him run riot on Amazon.com, IGN, Download.com, The Underdogs, etc. If Bioshock is too demanding for his PC, perhaps he'll find the Fallout Collection to his liking, at $15 plus S&H.

Don't slip past iTunes, and subscription services like Rhapsody, Live365 and Y! Unlimited.

When he is finished, put the lists side by side and see which excites him more.

Actually, the only thing holding me back from switching to Linux completely is the horrible and useless installation of new apps. Why can't Linux work like Windows - download a setup file, run it and it's there....

Ah but you can install software in Linux by just downloading and running it. I don't really know much about Linux but I know there's apt-get and rpm among others. And Linspire has CNR for Linspire Linux and they are porting it for other Linux distros. CNR allow you to select those programs you want then click a button to install them all. Uninstalling just another click.

if you don't like it, you choose "Uninstall".

Haha, I've uninstalled a lot of programs in Windows and they almost always leave junk, especially in the registry which can make it unstable. I've even had to manually uninstall software because there wasn't an uninstall and Windows Add/Remove couldn't uninstall.

I descended into dependency hell

And Windows doesn't, didn't, have DLL hell?

The Novell deal works into this somewhere [...], Microsoft is playing to ensure it has a finger in everyone's pie to make up for the loss in sales revenues. For Windows and other products to survive as well as Microsoft wants them to, the costs will have to come down, and Microsoft will do that, to keep their flagships afloat.

I have been very puzzled by the Microsoft-Novell-Linspire-Xandros deals. Microsoft has been giving money away to companies that they claim are violating their patents, and neither Linspire or Xandros have relevant patents that I know of that would justify Microsoft's relationship with them. I now believe, as you do, that they want to have economic ties to these various GNU Linux vendors so that these vendors will craft solutions that wrap around Microsoft solutions. Doing so will allow them to dictate the terms to these vendors, as in Linspire's unfortunate decision to make Windows Live Search the default search on Linspire 6.0.

It all snapped into focus for me when I read this article that shows how, in order to get prime biz opportunities with the beast of Redmond, it is necessary to leave your iPod at home, and not even talk about "googling" or Google solutions. Microsoft's insistence reminds me for all the world of the Scientology cult. In both cases, they say one thing in public, but demand blind obedience in individual private dealings. Of course, you could say that all companies want to encourage the use of their products, and discourage the use of others, but Microsoft is different. It's a monopoly, and its dominance of the desktop market triggers anti-trust analysis when it demands blind obedience in this fashion.

So I believe that Microsoft is basically trying to create cultural expectations that they expect their business partners to be their best advocates in the field, and IMHO, it seems to be working. I actually like Kevin Carmony, and I like the fact that Linspire is bringing FOSS to mainstream consumers who otherwise would never be exposed to FOSS. And yet, Linspire's message about Microsoft has become increasingly conciliatory, to the point where Kevin Carmony has become, like so many other CEOs whose companies are Microsoft business partners, a voice of reconciliation and acceptance toward Microsoft, as in this quote from Kevin Carmony's 14 June 2007 Linspire Letter:

But isn't Microsoft the enemy of Linux?

They certainly compete, just like Ubuntu, Red Hat, and Novell compete with each other, but we all have to live in the same desktop computing ecosystem. I'd prefer to use diplomacy and cooperation, than go to war. Linspire plans on working with Microsoft, just like we have with dozens of other partners, to build a better Linux. We will never force anyone to use what we produce. The choice to use, or not to use, the "better" Linux we strive to produce will always be up to you, but I like the idea of finding a mutually advantageous way for Microsoft and Linspire to work together.

Again, I like Kevin Carmony and Linspire, but what we see unfolding in the Microsoft-Novell-Linspire-Xandros deals is a process of accomodation, as Microsoft moves to co-opt its competitors, and align their business interests with its own. Simply put, if a business environment is a constellation of celestial bodies like our solar system, Microsoft wants to be the Sun, and certainly not merely even Jupiter or Saturn. It wants to dictate the terms of interaction, so that it can skim off value from each and every transaction. And it can succeed in doing so. And that is what makes Microsoft so dangerous, IMHO.

Which brings up the issue of .Net . I personally try to avoid using Microsoft products, simply because I don't want to have that kind of undue influence in my life. I understand that for man

I am no expert on that particular distro but I have always kinda assumed it was worthless.

For those switching from Windows to Linux, Linspire is pretty good. I'm switching myself from Windows, to both Linux and OSX, and got a PC with Linspire preinstalled. Windows users will be comfortable with it, bootup and it looks resembles and acts like Windows. It's easy to install software after registering, just go to the CNR warehouse to select what software you want, then click one button to install the software. To uninstall click another button. If the warehouse doesn't have what you want Linspire can install .deb packages. If it only comes in an .rpm package Linspire has a download that converts then to .deb packages. Linspire also has legal codecs to play dvds as well as some proprietary software such as Crossover you can buy. I can't verify the quality of them but there are thousands of programs in the warehouse.

at the moment I am very happy with arch and intend to keep using it for quite a while.

While I have Linspire installed on one of my PCs, Redhat and Windows are on the others, I plan to install and try out Ubuntu on it also. Right now though I'm looking for a dvd drive for it.

I am no expert on that particular distro but I have always kinda assumed it was worthless.

For those switching from Windows to Linux, Linspire is pretty good. I'm switching myself from Windows, to both Linux and OSX, and got a PC with Linspire preinstalled. Windows users will be comfortable with it, bootup and it looks resembles and acts like Windows. It's easy to install software after registering, just go to the CNR warehouse to select what software you want, then click one button to install the software. To uninstall click another button. If the warehouse doesn't have what you want Linspire can install .deb packages. If it only comes in an .rpm package Linspire has a download that converts then to .deb packages. Linspire also has legal codecs to play dvds as well as some proprietary software such as Crossover you can buy. I can't verify the quality of them but there are thousands of programs in the warehouse.

at the moment I am very happy with arch and intend to keep using it for quite a while.

While I have Linspire installed on one of my PCs, Redhat and Windows are on the others, I plan to install and try out Ubuntu on it also. Right now though I'm looking for a dvd drive for it.

It doesn't effect anything..

Read Mark's blog he posted about this ages ago...

With regards to the CNR technology what is the big deal. Linspire rsyncs Ubuntu debs and allows people to download them and pay for some commercial packages on a website. Hardly a "deal". I'm still going to use apt-get anyway.

http://www.linspire.com/lindows_news_pressreleases _archives.php?id=213/
Ubuntu 7+ is supposed to be using Linspire's CNR technology (Is it?). How does the Linspire/MS agreement affect Ubuntu (since they have refused to sign anything wiht MS). Has anything happened in this scenario? I'm not aware of any. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Unlike most other Linux distributions, Linspire was conceived primarily as a business enterprise. Consider this a buyout, albeit one that harms affirms FUD affecting all other distributions. Also consider how the beating that Linspire has taken from MS in the past may affect their willingness to stand strong in the face of MS threats now - however vacuous.

While I won't miss Linspire I am interested to know the future of Robertson's only real valued contribution to the GNU/Linux family of operating systems - CNR. Perhaps Shuttleworth should click-and-run with it while he still can (though Klikit looks like a pretty good fallback).

Pretty sure Linspire is already doing that. One of their selling points is that they add proprietary software and codecs which Ubuntu do not have: http://www.linspire.com/products_linspire_whatis.p hp

BTW, Linspire *did* offer PowerDVD Linux for awhile: http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_details.p hp?product_id=25183

You've been able to PAY for these codes via Linspire's click-n-run for over a year now.

And since linspire is Ubuntu based now - its pretty darn easy to install on ubuntu that way, too.

The linspire-ubuntu proprietary codecs stuff is actually old news.

The author of TFA just doesn't know how to Google. Perhaps he's afraid he might not be searching legally?

Every time I've looked --- including your link --- CNR says "coming soon". Is there something I'm missing?

Yea, the CNR site isn't up yet however you can use Linspire's CNR for downloading codecs. I didn't look so I don't know if it'll have what you're looking for.

"Do the Lin---ls rock!"

See this blast from the past.

Our experience has been that Microsoft gives a lot of lip service to wanting to work with open source Linux, but then proceeds to drag their feet and delay in actually delivering anything meaningful. (Does anyone following ODF believe Microsoft's proposed "open standards" are really open, or just self-serving?) Given their history, I'm understandably very skeptical that Microsoft sincerely wants to do much here.

But Canonical is still a business. Here's the last paragraph from Kevin Carmony's letter available at
http://www.linspire.com/linspire_letter.php:

"But isn't Microsoft the enemy of Linux?

They certainly compete, just like Ubuntu, Red Hat, and Novell compete with each other, but we all have to live in the same desktop computing ecosystem. I'd prefer to use diplomacy and cooperation, than go to war. Linspire plans on working with Microsoft, just like we have with dozens of other partners, to build a better Linux. We will never force anyone to use what we produce. The choice to use, or not to use, the "better" Linux we strive to produce will always be up to you, but I like the idea of finding a mutually advantageous way for Microsoft and Linspire to work together.

I'm sure some people who feel strongly about this will turn to other distributions, and I respect that. I do, however, think many more will end up coming to Linspire Linux for the enhanced experience they find from a distribution that works with as many partners as possible in an effort to make Linux work better. This announcement doesn't take any choices away from anyone; it just adds one more option. Choice is a good thing. I'm glad we have lots of them today as we choose a desktop OS."

The letter focuses on usability through interoperability as opposed to just plain-jane patent protection. Try replacing "Linspire" with "Ubuntu" and read it again to see if it sounds so farfetched. Maybe, maybe not.

The Symbian OS based Nokia series already has such features.

In fact to compete with the iPhone the Nokia N80ie at almost half the price offers more freedom and is not crippled as the iPhone is crippled and I'll bet the Fone+ is criplled as well. Read the Nokia web site for features on the phone.

Seems Linspire has taken the bait and given up linux for MS:

http://www.linspire.com/linspireletter

I wonder how long it will take for the others to follow. :-(

Something on antitrust or invalid program claims must be issued to stop this or else there wont be any free software no more - at least without Microsoft EULA:s. /jonas

The first problem is that Linux came late to the party.

Your dad bought his first MSDOS PC in 1980. Your kids began with XP at age four in 2001. You need a very compelling reason to switch.

The second problem is that the Geek is blandly incomprehending of the home PC market.

It isn't just games - although Windows gaming remains a billion-dollar industry - and Microsoft in Vista and the XBox 360 is weaving the PC and console gamer ever more closely together.

It isn't just media - but shop around a little and you can find a first generation Blu-Ray drive for Windows for under $600.

This is of course a market segment that rates zero for ideological purity and political correctness. It does not agonize over DRM or the proprietary driver. In return it gets a first look at some very nice tech and software. iTunes for Windows, anyone?

The larger problem is that the Linux Geek programs for the Linux Geek. The Window's programmer tends to find his satisfaction and profit in writing programs for users with other interests and values.

That is why Grandma put down her needles and picked up Windows to do her fancy embroidery on a Singer. It is also why Linspire's CNR Warehouse tends to look to a home user like a shareware catalog from 1992.

I would recommend trying Kubuntu, OpenSUSE (or SUSE even, although that would involve supporting that damn Microsoft-Novell patent deal), Mandriva, or Linspire/Freespire. These distributions use KDE (K Desktop Environment), which in my opinion (and even Linus himself along with many, many others) is far more usable, customisable, and useful than GNOME, the default desktop environment for many other distributions such as Ubuntu. Although GNOME tends to look cleaner than KDE, its usability is quite, well, limited. I don't understand the circle jerk going on between most distributions and their need to use GNOME by default, but I do know that a lot of people's complaints in regards to the GUI on Linux are GNOME-specific and are not a problem with KDE.

I agree. The distro should be geared towards end users who barely know what Linux is. They are not going to reformat and install slackware or debian, or whatever. They are just going to plug theier computer in and expect everything to work.

This includes proprietory codecs like MP3 and DVDs. The users are not going to care if the driver or codec is open source or not, just that they can play MP3s and their frickin 3-D video card works right.

The most "Windows consumer friendly" distros out now are Ubuntu and Linspire http://www.linspire.com/linspire_letter.php/ (the new version which is Ubuntu based). And make sure all of the codecs and stuff work. No crappy geek user interfaces from sourceforge.

Also, providing a small (dead tree) manual on how to use the computer (open office, web browsing, email, MP3s and DVDs, installing software with CNR, etc, like SUSE) would be of great benefit to newbies, even if they are Windows power users.

There already is a Linux company that has a Linux box without the Windows tax that has a great big box store nationwide distribution - Linspire. Say what you want about Linspire, but at least they support Open Source.

The whole Dell sucks because they won't sell Linux based PCs or no O/S PCs complaint is a farce.

The people complaining about this issue would never buy a Linux based computer, don't pay for software (whether it's free or not) and don't really care about Linux or Open Source in general. So no wonder why Dell has no interest in selling PCs with Linux or no O/S.

For those who do care, they either build their own PCs and put their flavor of Linux on them, get a new PC from their employer and dual-boot Linux (in which case its their employer paying the Windows tax), or they buy a Linux PC from one of the established Linux PC vendors, of which there are many.

The question shouldn't be why Dell should sell PCs with Linux, it should be: Why don't Linux users support Open Source by buying Linux based computers through Linux PC vendors? Linux users that are paying the Windows tax are just hurting their own cause and are supporting the enemy.

It matters because soon as a major PC manufacturer starts shipping machines without the Windows tax, we can finally get some real competition in the OS world (how ironic that if I want to try free Linux, I usually have to buy Windows - which comes with my PC - and I can't get a discount if I don't want Windows).

beancounters decreed a move to PCs - even worse all the servers went to NT.

With the exception of 2003 and Vista I've used Windows since 3.x and of them NT 4, Workstation, is the only one I have not had trouble with. Then again I have it installed on a DEC Alpha PC and because I was able to get much software installed on it I haven't used it much. Still it has never froze on me or showed me the BSOD, however the first tyme I used XP it froze before it finished booting. And the PC was a brand new Dell.

Anyway I guess the points I'm trying to make are
1) Linux is not a desktop OS (if it has changed in the last couple of years perhaps I should take a second look)

Though I haven't used so I can't make an educated remark, I've heard Ubuntu is ready for the desktop. I've been thinking of getting a Live CD to try it out. Linspire Linux, I can hear the catcalls now, is desktop ready though. Heck, once booted up it even looks like Windows.

Which is ironic considering at one point the Amiga was cheaper and better than the PC... all down to marketing I suppose... I guess earlier in my rant i discounted the Amiga as a desktop system ;-) but that is ok, most other people did as well.

Commodore utterly failed in it's marketing of the Amiga. I thought that with it's resources Gateway would bring it back to life when they bought the Amiga from Escom however they didn't do anything with it.

Widespread adoption of Linux on the desktop isn't going to happen. Here's why.

In 2004, it looked close. You could buy Linux desktop machines, and even laptops, at WalMart. Dell and HP had offerings. Today, the Linux laptops are gone from mainstream vendors.

What happened?

First, the laptop has replaced the desktop. Laptops used to be niche machines, expensive, fragile, and less powerful than desktops. That's changed. Today, for many users, a laptop is their primary machine. Laptops have less-standard hardware, and getting Linux to run reliably on a laptop without manufacturer cooperation remains iffy. Take a look at the laptop support instructions on Linux.org. Almost all the machines listed are out of production. (Many of the companies listed no longer even make laptops.)

Second, the ability to handle content in proprietary formats has become much more important to consumers. Want to play a DVD, or talk to the iTunes store? Tough. There's been talk of a "legal DVD player" for Linux since 2000, and although two companies came close to shipping such a player, neither still does. Linspire does have one, but only for their version of Linux, and there are some players licensable by OEMs for embedded devices. Seven years after the first claims of "real soon now" in Wired, it didn't happen.

Linux missed the window. Microsoft won. Deal with it, fanboys.

I'm surprised there was no mention the Smart package manager or YaST. I understand that Linspire has a Click 'N' Run download service. Personally I don't find installing under Linux any more difficult than Windows.

As does clicking on a checkbox. Seriously, I don't need it to be any easier.

What we do need now are better guides telling people what they need to install for a given problem, since the link from task to program/package name is not always obvious. I know I can use google for that, but a more centralized and guided way would be nice for less technical people. That's why I think that click-n-run has its place.

Linux is a kernel. Linspire, on the other hand, used to be called "Lindows". I think it fits the bill.

Stop right there.

In Linspire's CNR Warehouse there are no "Greeting Card" programs.

20,000 titles.

But nothing to replace The Print Shop, which has been doing business at the same old stand for about twenty-five years.

Page through the catalog as a home user would.

Strip away the programs that are available for Windows, then ask yourself what is left and what is missing. You may not find the answers very comforting.

My favorite distro is Debian. I still use Ubuntu on my laptop though.
As long as the standard apt-get and dpkg tools work in Linspire I really
don't have a problem with it. But if you will look at this:
http://media.linspire.com/cnr/images/CNR-system2.j pg
What I want is that CNR plugin that crosses from CNR directly to you desktop
to use dpkg to install it. That means I want .deb from the CNR. I'm not sure
but it since CNR is also shooting for Fedora and OpenSuse that this might not be the case......

That's what I want (at least it's not a pony). But does any one know what the
underlieing package management looks like with CNR?

In my view, these are the features of the mythical desktop-distro-for-the-masses:

1. It has to be available in stores. Joe Bloggs wants to just go and buy it. A net install would also be necessary of course. The installation must be as automatic as possible, it must ask the minimum number of questions as it can.

Joe Bloggs doesn't want to go into a store to buy a Linux distro, he wants to buy a computer with an OS already installed.

2. Remove choices. Yes. REMOVE choices. Have the distro setup so that it has one carefully selected instance of each software type you need, one word processor, one spreadsheet, one database, one graphics package... Everything is installed, there is no asking "do you want", it is there in your "start menu" from the get-go. When Joe decides one Sunday afternoon to make a movie... "Start > Movies > Movie Maker".

I'm not sure about removing choices but having an app for each use yes, and Linspire Linux, Debian based, does this. When you bootup it even looks kind of like Windows, and you click on "start", er "launch" button, as there's the menu for programs.

3. In the start menu it's not "GIMP" it's "Image Editor".

"Paint program" in Linspire.

In the software repository (Debian based naturally), again, remove choices. People don't want 20 different examples of a web browser, they want 1 which has been carefully chosen as "the best". And installing software from the repository should be seamless, I'd go so far as to make it as easy as selecting "Start > Games > Tetris" and it installs from the repository if it's not already there. Do away with package management interfaces,

Linspire has a software warehouse, CNR, which they ar in the process of offering to other Linux distros wherein a person can select programs to install then click on the install button after which they ar downloaded and installed without having to worry about dependencies or anything else. If the user doesn't like a program it's just anothe rclick to uninstall the program.

Joe Bloggs down the road doesn't WANT all that stuff. They want to do a job, they want the computer to just get out of the way and let him do the job, they want the computer to help him, not to make him jump through hoops to tell the computer exactly how to do such and such.

That's a bit of a contradiction isn't it? If Joe Bloggs doesn't want to jump through hoops then why is he using Windows which requires a bunch of jumps? And that's if he's lucky and it doesn't crapout on him. Tyme will only tell if Vista is good and stable.

It is the best solution I know for the problem I recognized. That problem being the need for MS users to have other options. .... Do you have a better suggestion for a *nix distro for a brand new user who has previously only known MS?.

Of course, better than Ubuntu for that sector of users. I will prefer them to use Xandros or Linspire. Those are (in my opinion of course) the proper systems to replace windows (read carefully:) for that kind of people that is *just* going out of windows to try an alternative, hence they do not care about freedom of OS and available-sourcecode, etc available. They want something that, as windows "just works" (although I presume they expect things to work better than on Windows).

Ubuntu in my opinion is for people that wants to take the *next* step from those paid-for distributions or for people that used Mandriva, RedHat, etc and wants to try this newcomer which everyone is talking about.

It doesn't run over them, in runs WITH them. Check out this graphic showing how it works in conjunction with Ubuntu's repositories.

Does it solve any of the hard problems well, like conflicting dependencies on libraries, circular dependencies (that is, several packages must be upgraded together or not at all like a transaction), packages from other sources?

Yes, CNR checks for dependencies. If one is missing CNR will install it, and though I don't know how they do it CNR also checks for conflicts in dependencies.

Besides, they seem to easily ignore that most apps are installed with "apt-get install [name]" or similar one-click in a graphical package manager.

They even have an app that converts apt-get, Debwrap.

I understand that they're out to make money but they're making a mountain out of a molehill.

I think you're wrong. Linspire's purpose is to bring Linux to the masses, and CNR makes it a lot easier for new users of Linux to install software, basically you go through the warehouse looking for software you want to install and once you've made your selection you click one botton to install your choices. There's no worrying about dependencies, which hardly anyone knows about to begin with, and it's just another click to uninstall software. That's what the mass market wants.

Basicly what you're paying for is the hold-my-hand frontend and the privilidge of paying for commercial apps.

You don't have to pay to use CNR. The basic level is free and it allows you to install many FOSS packages. Now there is the paid service CNR Gold which offers discounts on commercial software like Crossover Linux, Win4Lin, and Cedega.

Their other promise requires debian to give up apt-get, red hat to give rpms and so on - when hell drops below absolute zero.

CNR has a utility that converts apt-get to the CNR install type, Debwrap. They also have several packages for rpms.

Does it solve any of the hard problems well, like conflicting dependencies on libraries, circular dependencies (that is, several packages must be upgraded together or not at all like a transaction), packages from other sources?

Yes, CNR checks for dependencies. If one is missing CNR will install it, and though I don't know how they do it CNR also checks for conflicts in dependencies.

Besides, they seem to easily ignore that most apps are installed with "apt-get install [name]" or similar one-click in a graphical package manager.

They even have an app that converts apt-get, Debwrap.

I understand that they're out to make money but they're making a mountain out of a molehill.

I think you're wrong. Linspire's purpose is to bring Linux to the masses, and CNR makes it a lot easier for new users of Linux to install software, basically you go through the warehouse looking for software you want to install and once you've made your selection you click one botton to install your choices. There's no worrying about dependencies, which hardly anyone knows about to begin with, and it's just another click to uninstall software. That's what the mass market wants.

Basicly what you're paying for is the hold-my-hand frontend and the privilidge of paying for commercial apps.

You don't have to pay to use CNR. The basic level is free and it allows you to install many FOSS packages. Now there is the paid service CNR Gold which offers discounts on commercial software like Crossover Linux, Win4Lin, and Cedega.

Their other promise requires debian to give up apt-get, red hat to give rpms and so on - when hell drops below absolute zero.

CNR has a utility that converts apt-get to the CNR install type, Debwrap. They also have several packages for rpms.

You can get Linspire DVD Player which will *legally* allow you to watch encoded DVDs in linux.

If your copy of Ubuntu won't play DVDs, that's between you and Google, my friend

I know you're being funny, but last time I checked, Windows didn't play DVDs "out of the box" either. Try laying down a fresh XP or Vista install and playing a DVD. On that note, there is 1 "legal" way I know of to play DVDs on Linux, and (sadly) it's via the CNR ... as for no-so-legal ways ... umm ... Google!

Right now, the only way to watch DVDs on Linux in most Western countries is breaking the law (i.e. the DMCA or its local equivalent), which is clearly a no-no for most users, including myself.

there is no legal way to play back CSS protected DVDs.

I would hate to get a call from someone who doesn't know what they're doing trying to set up Gentoo, but I don't know that I'd recommend Ubuntu or openSUSE because of the lack of effective package management when they're trying to get a new application running.

Have you checked out Linspire Linux? I don't know how well installation of it goes, my new PC came with it preinstalled, but Linspire maintains a warehouse of software that only requires a click to download and install. As long as you've got a broadband collection it's easier to install software in Linspire than in Windows.