'I Was a Hacker for the MPAA'

Wired has up an article with a man named Robert Anderson, who was recruited by the MPAA in 2005 to inform on people in the BitTorrent community. In a tell-all interview with the site, Anderson explains how the powerful media organization encouraged him to obtain the information they were looking for: "According to Anderson, the MPAA told him: 'We would need somebody like you. We would give you a nice paying job, a house, a car, anything you needed.... if you save Hollywood for us you can become rich and powerful.' In 2005, the MPAA paid Anderson $15,000 for inside information about TorrentSpy -- information at the heart of a copyright-infringement lawsuit brought by the MPAA against TorrentSpy of Los Angeles. The material is also the subject of a wiretapping countersuit against the MPAA brought by TorrentSpy's founder, Justin Bunnell, who alleges the information was obtained illegally."

Comments

obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Mister Anderson...

Re:obligatory

[mfh]

No, Neo would never work for the robots.

Re:obligatory

[im just cannonfodder]

This maybe a silly question but isn't hacking illegal in the usa as part of GW,Bush's anti terror laws? If this is the case shouldn't the mpaa members all now be under investigation by the cia/fbi?

Re:obligatory

[Feyr]

patriot does not apply to true american companies and bush's cronies, especially if it prevents them from making money and/or protecting the True American Dream

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

This maybe a silly question but isn't hacking illegal in the usa as part of GW,Bush's anti terror laws?

Look, Wired can be forgiven, since they're clueless nerd wannabes*, but damn it man, this is slashdot. Look at the masthead. Then get your wannabe ass off my lawn and no, you can't have your balls back.

When I took transistor radios and turned them into guitar fuzzboxes as a teenager, that was hacking. When Delbert McGeekly quickly writes a few lines of code to get the server running again, that's hacking. When Joey Pimpleface finds some code on the internet that lets him sniff out some doofus' password, that is not hacking Goddamnit!!!!! That's cracking you clueless dweeb.

Only laymen refer to breaking into computer systems as "hacking". If you think breaking into computers is hacking, you don't belong at slashdot.

-mcgrew

*The linked text is titled "What is a nerd?" When I was a teenager, "nerd" and "geek" were insults. We were scorned, shunned, and made fun of. Who would have thought that some day we would actually be respected, to the point that the jocks and cheerleaders would actually try to pass themselves off as us?

Re:obligatory

[obergfellja]

well, the term "Hacking" is not illegal, but if you are referring to the illegally breaking an entry into another's computer for any reason, yes. But please say the right term... CRACKING

Re:obligatory

[peterpi]

You're pissing into the wind.

Re:obligatory

[morgan_greywolf]

Yes. 1030. Fraud and related activity in connection with computers states that:

[Anyone who] ...knowingly and with intent to defraud, accesses a protected computer without authorization, or exceeds authorized access, and by means of such conduct furthers the intended fraud and obtains anything of value, unless the object of the fraud and the thing obtained consists only of the use of the computer and the value of such use is not more than $5,000 in any 1-year period; The term "protected computer" is defined as:

(B) which is used in interstate or foreign commerce or communication, including a computer located outside the United States that is used in a manner that affects interstate or foreign commerce or communication of the United States; (i) the offense was committed for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain;

(ii) the offense was committed in furtherance of any criminal or tortious act in violation of the Constitution or laws of the United States or of any State Hello, Mr. Federal Prosecutor? Where are you?

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Not if you're protecting businesses' interests, obviously.

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[jackharrer]

patriot does not apply to true american companies(tm) and bush's cronies(r), especially if it prevents them from making money and/or protecting the True American Dream(tm)

Fixed it for you!

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't be silly. Legal repercussions are something that happens to other people.

Re:obligatory

[innerweb]

It is only illegal if you have not contributed to their masters' coffers. Once you have paid the fee, you are free to do certain activities. If you want to do more aggressive activities, you simply pay more fees. They have a legal staff standing by to help you, and in case you get caught, they can mark anything classified for national security reasons.

[/humor]

InnerWeb

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

No, this isn't Neo. This is Tom's brother Bob.

-mcgrew

Re:obligatory

[b4stard]

Not if you're rich.

Re:obligatory

[Stooshie]

Ahh, back in the days when hacking meant changing a punch card to alter the input to valve number 27 in order to light up the 3rd bulb from the right rather than the 7th, all just as a practical joke to mess up the prof's experiment. Then he'd have to go back to the drawing board, write a new mathematical formula and send it to the "programmers department" to create a new punch card.

Boy were we crazy! ;-)

Re:obligatory

[russ1337]

EXACTLY. I find this part of the Article at odds with what seems reasonable:

But U.S. District Judge Florence-Marie Cooper in Los Angeles dismissed Bunnell's lawsuit Aug. 21 on the grounds that Anderson's intrusion did not violate the federal wiretapping statute. Attorney Rothken says he did not sue under the federal computer-hacking law, because it doesn't allow for vicarious liability.

Seems as long as you do this and hire someone anonymous, its perfectly OK. It's not wiretapping and you can't be done for the hacking bit cos you didn't do it!

What a great legal system!

Re:obligatory

[ResidntGeek]

I want you to read this following line very carefully:

SHUT UP.

You're fighting a battle which was stupid even before it was lost, 10 years ago. To the general population, when Joey Pimpleface finds some code on the internet that lets him sniff out some doofus's password, that is hacking. That makes it the case, whether you like it or not. You're never, ever going to realign the definition of the term, not even if you did more than post on slashdot about it (which you won't). Do what you do with every other word in the damn language, and use it the same way everyone else does. Suddenly, magically, you'll find you can communicate with other lifeforms! Imagine that!

By the way,

Who would have thought that some day we would actually be respected, to the point that the jocks and cheerleaders would actually try to pass themselves off as us?

You're so naive I almost hate to burst your bubble on that one, but no. Leaving aside your high-school perception of the world, the thing that set nerds and geeks apart is lack of social skills. I can assure you "jocks and cheerleaders", as you so eloquently put it, do not try to imitate an inability to socialize. Geeks and nerds are respected once they learn how to socialize, to become like the "jocks and cheerleaders" in that sense.

Re:obligatory

[MadJo]

Geez, lay off the caffeine next time.

"Hacking" or "to hack" has many different meanings already. (The term was not invented by those 'hackers', and will not be the sole property of said hackers.
Google and Xerox don't like it when their name is used as a verb, but it still happens. If you don't believe me, then google it.)

Merriam Webster defines "hack" as follows:

Main Entry:

Pronunciation:
        \hak\
Function:
        verb
Etymology:
        Middle English hakken, from Old English -haccian; akin to Old High German hacchn to hack, Old English hc hook
Date:
        13th century

transitive verb
1 a: to cut or sever with repeated irregular or unskillful blows
b: to cut or shape by or as if by crude or ruthless strokes
c: annoy, vex --often used with off
2: to clear or make by or as if by cutting away vegetation
3 a: to manage successfully
b: tolerate

intransitive verb
1 a: to make chopping strokes or blows ; also : to make cuts as if by chopping
b: to play inexpert golf
2: to cough in a short dry manner
3: loaf --usually used with around
4 a: to write computer programs for enjoyment
b: to gain access to a computer illegally

Yes, the term is being muddied by the media, but language is always in flux, meanings change. New words appear. Perhaps it's time to give the 'white hat' hackers a new term? Or start using the term 'white hat' more.

Re:obligatory

[spootle]

Times change grandpa, move on.

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

No, that is not a silly question. It is, however, an extremely naive question. Work on grammar, punctuation, and definitions, and get back to us in ten years.

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Hello, Mr. Federal Prosecutor? Where are you?

He's too busy discussing the latest Hot Chocolate mod for Bully with Mr. Thompson. :\

Re:obligatory

[hackstraw]

SHUT UP.

You're fighting a battle which was stupid even before it was lost, 10 years ago. To the general population, when Joey Pimpleface finds some code on the internet that lets him sniff out some doofus's password, that is hacking.

All of these statements are inflammable. Definitely not flammable.

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

How about I give you the finger, and ...

Wait a second, did you say $15000?

Re:obligatory

[Psion]

To the general population, someone with multiple personalities has schizophrenia. Does that make them right? Of course not, they have multiple personality disorder or dissociative identity disorder. Facts aren't candidates in a popularity contest.

Re:obligatory

[Actually, I do RTFA]

You're never, ever going to realign the definition of the term, not even if you did more than post on slashdot about it (which you won't). Do what you do with every other word in the damn language, and use it the same way everyone else does.

Yes and no. Within the slashdot community, the word hacker has a different meaning. It is stupid to expect that meaning to apply outside slashdot, but inside one expects the word "hacker" not to get thrown around so much. Much like using "weight" at a physicists convention means something different (and more accurate) than in the locker room at your gym.

Re:obligatory

[Nazlfrag]

I guess we'll just fall back to 'Nerd' then. It'll be a smooth transition.

Re:obligatory

[Suhas]

I can see that you have a deep resentment for someone you could not be. What do you do, hack CSS for a living?

Re:obligatory

[Hatta]

That makes it the case, whether you like it or not. You're never, ever going to realign the definition of the term, not even if you did more than post on slashdot about it (which you won't). Do what you do with every other word in the damn language, and use it the same way everyone else does. Suddenly, magically, you'll find you can communicate with other lifeforms! Imagine that!

So I take it you call your monitor your "computer", your tower your "CPU", and the whole thing your "hard drive"? That's what the general population does, so you should too.

Re:obligatory

[Mister Whirly]

"And Hacker is the clear victor over Cracker in that cage match! Next up - Vi vs. Emacs in a Battle Royale!"

Re:obligatory

[DeadManCoding]

Normally, I'm the one getting flamed, instead of flaming, but I really feel some bile coming up and after that post, I'm going to spew it at you. For those of us who are programmers, a hacker was a status symbol, the sysadmin that could throw together some code and make that new system their IT manager bought actually work right. While the English language will always allow for evolution, there are some things that have been misconstrued, such as "hacking". I may not be the 60s-70s era programmer, but my instructors in college were. They also found their word so utterly changed by the media to be insulting. I'm not going to change my vocabulary for the mass population because some other asshole decided the definition needed to be sensationalized. So do me a favor, get off your high horse, get out of the basement, and get a life. I want to be defined as a hacker, because I'm a coder, and for me, that's a worthy goal.

Re:obligatory

[sconeu]

Come on... it's only illegal if "ordinary people" do it. If $BIG_CORP does it, it's a patriotic act to catch those Evil Content Pirates(tm).

Re:obligatory

[cpghost]

But... aren't they already part or associates of that corporate government they paid for? Can't they already raid private houses and companies just like government can? Government wouldn't investigate against itself. Just imagine fbi investigating against cia or nsa investigating against the white house!

Re:obligatory

[user315234]

So does the title get changed to "I was a cracker for the MPAA" or not?

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought my computer was the thing I type on with all the keys!

Re:obligatory

[DanielJosphXhan]

Definitions and the meaning of words are, at least if you accept that definition of the meaning of a word.

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Leaving aside your high-school perception of the world, the thing that set nerds and geeks apart is lack of social skills.

I want you to read this following line very carefully:

SHUT UP.

You're fighting a battle which was stupid even before it was lost, 10 years ago. To the general population, when Joey Pimpleface finds a tutorial on the internet that lets him set up some doofus's home Windows network, that is geekdom. That makes it the case, whether you like it or not. You're never, ever going to realign the definition of the term, not even if you did more than post on slashdot about it (which you won't). Do what you do with every other word in the damn language, and use it the same way everyone else does. Suddenly, magically, you'll find you can communicate with other lifeforms! Imagine that!

Re:obligatory

[Independent Voter]

Actually, multiple personality disorder is a form of schizophrenia. So, people who say that those with multiple personality disorder have schizophrenia, they're not wrong, just inexact.

I started hacking and cracking in 1983, way before it was "cool". At the time, according to me and my friends who were much better hackers and crackers than I was (including one Pentagon computer hacker who eventually got caught), cracking is a subform of hacking.

Language evolves and meanings change. Happens every year with lots of words. During the transition, it creates confusion, but then the new meaning takes over and settles in and communication continues. take "hacking", for example. It used to just mean "beating something with a sharp object"...

Re:obligatory

[modecx]

More like pissing into the exhaust of a GE90 turbofan engine.

Re:obligatory

[Thexare Blademoon]

Does any rational person really give a fuck about such petty semantics?

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

God, just get over it. It's not "cracking". It hasn't been "cracking" for almost 15 years now. It's hacking. You're not going to get the word back by crying about it.

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

"Join me and together we can RULE the galaxy as MPAAther and Son..."

Re:obligatory

[Chardros]

iMac?

Re:obligatory

[stonecypher]

Yes and no. Within the slashdot community, the word hacker has a different meaning.

Yeah. It's a giant red "poser" flag. The word that people are trying so desperately to prop up was out of use in its original context before it began use in the new one. The people who were actually around back when the word "hacker" meant something productive all find the issue quite amusing, in a decidedly sad way; while you guys sit here clinging to the definition of a piece of slang that went out of use in the 80s, we all just sit here watching you pretend to be something you never were.

The Jargon File isn't a social handbook. Let it go.

Re:obligatory

[cayenne8]

"To the general population, someone with multiple personalities has schizophrenia. "

"Roses are Red,

Violets are Blue,

I'm schizophrenic,

And so am I..."

Re:obligatory

[stonecypher]

For those of us who are programmers, a hacker was a status symbol

No it wasn't. There was nothing worse than to call yourself that. Please stop posing. You weren't around back when it was in use, and your quick read of TNHD hasn't given you the depth of context that you seem to believe you have. You weren't around back then, and you should stop pretending that you were. It's dishonest.

the sysadmin that could throw together some code and make that new system their IT manager bought actually work right.

"Hacker" was out of use long before the job "IT Manager" even existed.

I'm not going to change my vocabulary

It's not your vocabulary. It's something you heard from someone else. Just because one college teacher told you a story doesn't mean you've got the bead. It's slang. Move on.

So do me a favor, get off your high horse, get out of the basement, and get a life.

You're way further up on your own ire than the person to whom you're responding.

I want to be defined as a hacker

And you never, ever will be. Let it go. You're not Mel.

Re:obligatory

[uniquename72]

I started hacking and cracking in 1983, way before it was "cool". Actually, hacking and cracking became cool in 1983. Or maybe I was just a dork, too.

Re:obligatory

[Frostalicious]

Actually, multiple personality disorder is a form of schizophrenia.

In layman's terms maybe, but currently the DSM-IV places them in completely different categories.

Re:obligatory

[Hatta]

It's funny. When I take this observation and attach it to a thread about the meaning of "Hacker" I get modded +5 insightful. When I attach this exact same observation to a thread about the meaning of "Begging the question" I get modded down. Why is that?

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

He's not really a hacker. He's just some stupid guy who knew about torrent websites, and since the layman dosn't know about torrents they called him a hacker and because he's some guy who gets his rocks off working for the MPAA he called himself a hacker to sound cool. I bet the guy dosn't know the first thing about computer security.

Re:obligatory

[Alexandra Erenhart]

4 a: to write computer programs for enjoyment

I've been a hacker all this time and I never noticed it? wow :P

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

...take "hacking", for example. It used to just mean "beating something with a sharp object"...

That's not what it means anymore?! Oh, geez. I was beginning to wonder why the server was still down. I've been hacking on it all night.

Re:obligatory

[pclminion]

Much like using "weight" at a physicists convention means something different (and more accurate) than in the locker room at your gym.

Physicists are just as sloppy, terminologically, as anyone else. I've heard mass referred to as "weight" in plenty of informal discussions. It is not a problem because the context is always clear. Hell, we still have the term "atomic weight" which has been wrong for over 100 years, and yet continues to be used.

In a publication, the correct terms are always used. And of course, there are scientists who are anal about terminology even in informal settings. But I would hope that the human race has enough intelligence to account for CONTEXT in discussions in order to disambiguate terms.

The old hacker/cracker debate is tiresome, pointless, and indicates that the poster has nothing USEFUL to say.

Re:obligatory

[Politburo]

Cause people are sick of 'begging the question' correctors.

Re:obligatory

[pclminion]

So I take it you call your monitor your "computer", your tower your "CPU", and the whole thing your "hard drive"? That's what the general population does, so you should too.

Silly generalizations on hundreds of millions of people do not make an argument.

Re:obligatory

[Lexx Greatrex]

Hacking means exactly what it implies: Jury rigging with code. If you can cut an paste a few lines of code together that brute forces passwords then you are hacking. Using a cracking program you did not write is therefore NOT hacking, just cracking. So yes, script kiddies are hackers, of sorts. Just as the RIAA are human beings, of sorts.

Re:obligatory

[JavaArtisan]

The MPAA has denied knowing the manner in which the information was obtained. They claim they did not know that there was any hacking involved. So the burden of proof would be on the govt. to prove that they willfully and knowingly participated in the illegal gathering of information. I'm sure the MPAA covered their tracks well - this will not be an easy thing for the govt. to go after (assuming that they even wanted to, in the first place).

Re:obligatory

[obergfellja]

that is like asking "Does a rational person care about the difference between a cop and a criminal?" When someone breaks into your house, which do you really call (in a black and white names) Granted, there is a fine line between both variations and this is just a comparison. I just don't want people to look at me (as a programmer/hacker) and say "Throw him in jail." because of the label, but understand the nature of my work.

Re:obligatory

[Bearhouse]

No, but they do make a democracy, ooops, I meant 'majority'...

Still, I have sympathy for both sides of the debate, (please let's have a debate, not an argument full of insults such as 'shut up' and so forth). I pronounce 'patent' as in 'cat', because that's how I learned the word in school, a long tme ago.
Most people I know pronounce it as in 'latent'. Who's right? Who cares, as long as we understand each other...

Re:obligatory

[cp.tar]

Actually, the title just made me whistle "I Was Kaiser Bill's Batman".

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot a apostrophe.

Re:obligatory

[Actually, I do RTFA]

The Jargon File isn't a social handbook.

What is the Jargon File?

Re:obligatory

[The Spoonman]

If you think breaking into computers is hacking, you don't belong at slashdot.

Huh, that's funny...20+ years ago when I was hacking into stuff with my TI-99/4A, we called it hacking. Cracking, on the other hand, was limited to software piracy (cracking the copy protection on disks, specifically). So, it sounds to me as if we've discovered the clueless dweeb, but alas, like most clueless dweebs he posted anonymously.

Regardless, language is dynamic and ever-changing. Just because a word meant something in the past does not mean it will remain that way in the future. Those who fail to keep up are clueless putzes who like living in the past, all the while not grasping that Bill Shakespeare and I speak the same language, just different iterations. Decimate is my favorite example of this. It comes from the Roman practice of killing every tenth person in a land they'd taken over. It grew to mean "to reduce by large numbers" and now the common vernacular uses it to mean "to destroy utterly". If, however, you used it today to mean "kill every tenth person", you'd be using it wrong. Just like if you used the word "cracking" to describe breaking into computer systems.

The world changes quickly, if you can't keep up, you've found the right place by coming to Slashdot.

Re:obligatory

[Evil Pete]

There was nothing worse than to call yourself that

Actually I remember otherwise. I knew very good programmers who were delighted when they were described as 'hackers' or even better 'mega hacker'. But that was, what, almost 20 years ago. The battle for the meaning of hacker has been lost. Probably even within the restricted circles of /. Pity but that's the way it is.

Re:obligatory

[ResidntGeek]

Right, but by "sets ... apart" I was referring to the trait that makes them "shunned, scorned, and made fun of" - it's not the fact that they can operate computers, it's the fact that they're boring, unpredictable, inappropriate, awkward, or any of a thousand other social flaws. I wasn't referring to the traits that make people think they're nerds, those don't really matter.

Nice try on the turnabout though. It almost works.

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

I can assure you "jocks and cheerleaders", as you so eloquently put it, do not try to imitate an inability to socialize.

How true. I fondly remember how I was always deeply impressed by the depth and breadth of social skills all those athletes so eloquently displayed back in high school...

(for the slow ones amongst you: no, none of the stereotypic crowds had particular gifts in adult way of social interaction; the main difference was just that the main vehicle for their self-expression was one of "muscles", "looks" or "brains", and seldom any combination of the two)

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Check with the APA before saying things like that. You are wrong. Multiple personalities, if they exists, are not a form of schizophrenia.

Re:obligatory

[FrankieBaby1986]

In my college, we talk about atomic mass, not atomic weight. Also, isn't the company and situation the conversation is taking place the CONTEXT, and thus the idea that on slashdot, a Hacker is one who kludges things to make them work, and a Cracker is one who breaks into things, is correct.

Re:obligatory

[lskovlund]

The Jargon File.

Re:obligatory

[LingNoi]

Then I propose we invent a new term! You're now called a wacker.

A wacker is someone who keeps hitting the keyboard until in genius and inventive programs come out.

Usage:
- I'm a wacker
- I was up all night wacking on my computer
- My buddy wacked this up yesterday.
- We had a big wackingfest on Monday you should have come!

Re:obligatory

[pclminion]

Also, isn't the company and situation the conversation is taking place the CONTEXT

I would hardly refer to a mass of hundreds of thousands of different individuals as a "context." If we all thought identically, there would be no point in having discussions here.

Re:obligatory

[mcpkaaos]

I've been hacking on it all night.

Try NyQuil.

Re:obligatory

[stonecypher]

There was nothing worse than to call yourself that

Actually I remember otherwise. I knew very good programmers who were delighted when they were described as 'hackers' or even better 'mega hacker'.

Oh goodie, another borderline shibboleth. Let's try this again. There's nothing worse than to call yourself that. There's nothing wrong with someone else calling them that. Then again, "mega" wasn't a prefix used in slang until the early 80s, meaning that if they were being described as mega-hackers, it was by people who were at least a decade too late.

Chances are pretty good that you've never met anyone from the era that everyone's trying so hard to pretend they were a part of. Programmers back then numbered in the tens of thousands, worldwide.

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Ooh, someone's insecure.

I personally consider myself a geek. I have kind of poor social skills, I use the terms "Cracker" and "Hacker" properly, and I don't normally give a flying fsck what trolls like you have to say regarding my lifestyle.

However, I am bored, and I am waiting for a Pizza to be delivered.

Your entire rant is apparently based on the assumption that nerds/geeks/whatever who have poor social skills actually care. Much like you stated about using the term Cracker over Hacker, you are pretty much wasting your time.

I spent my secondary school years at home studying, because I did not identify with anyone else that I knew of. Funnily enough, I had a lot of fun doing it. I enjoy learning. That is why I am a geek. I am currently pursuing a university degree in computer science, and I get along with a fair number of the people there, because we have similar interests. Yeah, I don't have a girlfriend, but there's plenty of time for that later on.

Most of the "normal" people in my year from secondary school are actually unemployed or flipping burgers - there's just not enough jobs around here for people with poor qualifications. Some of them got OK results and are now working in offices or banks. Some of them are trying to better themselves in College, and good luck to them. But that's fine, and I see no reason to attack them for it. Not everyone is brought up under the right circumstances for a studious lifestyle, and not everyone has the willpower to study for 15-20 years solid. However, I do object when the courtesy is not returned.

So this makes me wonder why you are so aggressive. What you posted was nothing short of a flame. Basically, it comes across as "I have a bigger penis than you nerd losers". If I have misinterpreted this, then ignore my post. But if I have it right, I want you to read the following line very carefully:

I don't care what you think.

I shall continue to correct people on the usage of "Cracker" and "Hacker", because I find it annoying and offensive. No amount of people believing something makes anything right if it is wrong. I don't care if you think my efforts are futile, because I have seen the opposite effect in everyone I talk to. I am often called a "Hacker" and I don't like it when people infer from that that I break security systems. I don't mind my lack of social skills. Not interested, no drive to improve. I'll leave you alone if you leave me alone. I don't go around trying to upset people because I don't like it happening to me.

Though, this entire post is surely meaningless, because I can't see someone with your character taking any of this on board. I mean, who the hell attacks people because they lack something or some skill? What, because I am poor and can't afford to own a car, you would attack someone like me for that too? Hey, while you're at it, I am underweight because I am ill. Perhaps that would be a nice point to get enraged over. I also can't cook anything. I eat microwave meals and toast. Perhaps that is enough to make you throw chairs around the room.

You have a serious personality fault if other peoples harmless quirks make you angry.

I also love your ability to play with definitions to make them suit your own purposes. You should work in marketing. Nerds and geeks are defined only by their inability to communicate with "normal" people? Brilliance.

Re:obligatory

[buanzo]

AMEN! (without any religious sense)

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

You're obviously not a TruHacker!

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

an apostrophe

Re:obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

multiple personality is not apart of the medical definition of schizophrenia, however if you mean the semantic definition then you are correct.
schizophrenia simply translates to split mind, but it is more closely to the idea of a shattered mind, thus technically any mental disorder that causes a 'split' in the 'mind' could be schizophrenia.
to be honest the phrase multiple personality disorder isnt really used anymore, it is normally called dissociative identity disorder.
most cases of dissociate identity disorder are akin to other dissociative disorders and nothing like schizophrenia, because schizophrenia is not normally caused by trauma.

get your shit right

They would give him anything?

[Eastside2000]

Talk about a hacker on steroids

Re:They would give him anything?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did he called himself "Anonymous"?

Re:They would give him anything?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, but he did called himself "Anonymous Coward".

Wow. Dark Side ahoy!

[meringuoid]

...if you save Hollywood for us you can become rich and powerful.

"...and we will rule the Galaxy together!"

"Noooooooooooo!"

Cheapskates

[suso]

Wow, they are even cheaper than I thought. $15,000? I know there were other benefits, but I would have laughed in their face.

Re:Cheapskates

[Anonymous Coward]

Besides that, $15'000 for "a house, a car, and everything you want" ... Where in this planet will he find such insanely cheap prices ???? Name the country, I have my passport ready !!!!

Re:Cheapskates

[rolfc]

You should try Burkina Faso.

Re:Cheapskates

[Anonymous Coward]

The $15K makes one wonder...If that is the price they are willing to stop piracy, how come they want to extort $220K for like 30 MP3's (was it RIAA vs. Thomas or some such?)
Maybe this suing of citizens is a good business now that their revenues are showing the signs of people not wanting to pay for their brain-dead-PC-movies or without-soul-mass-produced-music.
Maybe piracy isn't so bad, it gives them a way to get even more money from each CD, $220K = MANY CDs.

Re:Cheapskates

[Anonymous Coward]

It was obviously a typo. The price wasn't $15k, it was thirty pieces of silver.

-mcgrew

Re:Cheapskates

[Culture20]

The conversation probably went something like this:

"So, I got the data you wanted, and I promise I didn't falsify any of it"
"Good, Good. What was the price we agreed upon? $15,000?"
"What? You promised me millions!"
"You could always go to the press or police, but you'll have to disclose what you did to earn those supposed millions. Ha Ha Ha!"
"Ok."
"Wait, what?"

I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[Anonymous Coward]

After reading about crap like this, I'm happy that I no longer consume the shit spewed forth by the mass media. Just over two years ago I sold my TV and DVD player, gave away the DVDs and CDs I had to relatives and friends. Since then I haven't watched TV, watched a movie (on disc or in the theater), listened to mainstream music, or otherwise involved myself with their product.

Instead of buying mainstream CDs, I go listen to local bands play at a variety of pubs and other venues, and buy directly from them if I like what I hear. The local theater productions are often far better than the latest Bruce Willis shitflick out of Hollywood. Instead of watching TV, I go biking, rockclimbing, and I also play recreational badminton.

So I'm glad to say that my funding of this sort of bullshit has been minimal, if at all. I urge more people to take a path similar to the one that I've chosen. You'll be far better off, both in terms of the entertainment you do experience, the money you save, and the fact that you're not funding the mainstream media in any way.

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[DanielJosphXhan]

Wow. But do you use your x-ray vision and power of flight for the good of humanity?

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[Choad Namath]

I also play recreational badminton.

So was it this line, or your overwhelming smugness that caused you to comment anonymously?

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[Anonymous Coward]

Now where did that 'Pompous Douche' mod go to?

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28694

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[SevenDigitUID]

He's probably posting anonymously because he's really a pro, and doesn't want to jeopardize his endorsement contracts. Professional badminton sponsors are a touchy bunch, with lots of mainstream media connections.

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[Mister Whirly]

"Just over two years ago I sold my TV and DVD player, gave away the DVDs and CDs I had to relatives and friends. Since then I haven't watched TV, watched a movie (on disc or in the theater), listened to mainstream music, or otherwise involved myself with their product."

Yeah because burying your head in the sand and isolating yourself from the activities everyone else partakes in will make you a much more well rounded person. Listen preachy, you don't have to avoid all mainstream media. Just don't let it be spoon fed to you like pablum with you believing every word you see or hear. That is what your brain is for - to filter the information you are given, and decide for yourself what it really means (or doesn't mean). You CAN watch some light entertainment without being brutally brainwashed and corrupted by "Hollywood".

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[Anonymous Coward]

so often you guys mix up your self-righteousness with condemnation of the quality of mass media and make it so hard for others to palate. It also betrays your nobility--who should be thought noble for avoiding "shitflicks?"

Heres the reality for most of your audience: mass media is good, or at least enough of it is to keep us occupied. It satisfies us, and we like sharing this consumption in common with the rest of society.. it gives us some baseline shared experiences.

But we need to protest it anyway, and purge it from our lives, because it is bad for us in other insidious ways.

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[Anonymous Coward]

Please tell us how you also retired your microwave oven, favouring instead the natural cooking power of wood.

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[MC Negro]

Hey, it's your doppleganger!

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[engwar]

I am a dynamic figure, often seen scaling walls and crushing ice. I have been known to remodel train stations on my lunch breaks, making them more efficient in the area of heat retention. I translate ethnic slurs for Cuban refugees, I write award-winning operas, I manage time efficiently.

Occasionally, I tread water for three days in a row. I woo women with my sensuous and godlike trombone playing, I can pilot bicycles up severe inclines with unflagging speed, and I cook Thirty-Minute Brownies in twenty minutes. I am an expert in stucco, a veteran in love, and an outlaw in Peru.

Using only a hoe and a large glass of water, I once single-handedly defended a small village in the Amazon Basin from a horde of ferocious army ants. I play bluegrass cello, I was scouted by the Mets, I am the subject of numerous documentaries. When I'm bored, I build large suspension bridges in my yard. I enjoy urban hang gliding. On Wednesdays, after school, I repair electrical appliances free of charge.

I am an abstract artist, a concrete analyst, and a ruthless bookie. Critics worldwide swoon over my original line of corduroy evening wear. I don't perspire. I am a private citizen, yet I receive fan mail. I have been caller number nine and have won the weekend passes. Last summer I toured New Jersey with a traveling centrifugal-force demonstration. I bat 400.

My deft floral arrangements have earned me fame in international botany circles. Children trust me. I can hurl tennis rackets at small moving objects with deadly accuracy. I once read Paradise Lost, Moby Dick, and David Copperfield in one day and still had time to refurbish an entire dining room that evening. I know the exact location of every food item in the supermarket. I have performed several covert operations with the CIA.

I sleep once a week; when I do sleep, I sleep in a chair. While on vacation in Canada, I successfully negotiated with a group of terrorists who had seized a small bakery. I balance, I weave, I dodge, I frolic, and my bills are all paid.

On weekends, to let off steam, I participate in full-contact origami. Years ago I discovered the meaning of life but forgot to write it down. I have made extraordinary four course meals using only a mouli and a toaster oven. I breed prize-winning clams. I have won bullfights in San Juan, cliff-diving competitions in Sri Lanka, and spelling bees at the Kremlin.

I have played Hamlet, I have performed open-heart surgery, and I have spoken with Elvis.

But I have not yet gone to college.

Source

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[jav1231]

I accomplish the same thing by only listening to music that I rip myself or others give me, and renting movies and ripping them. The only money get from me is from CD's I bought long ago and stuff I rent. I haven't purchased new music in ages. I love iTunes but still don't purchase music from there. If I were to buy music it would be through that avenue. I'm not averse to buying music, I'm just opting out of the old model. I think more people should do that.

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[AdmiralDouglas]

Nice. Personally, I completely agree with you. I still own some DVDs, and buy one now and than at the cheapest I can get it. I don't really order cds anymore unless I find that they aren't contributing to the RIAA. Personally, I think that's best for everyone. Physical outdoor activity and the Arts are a far better way to spend your life than in front of a TV anyway.

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[zolaar]

::cough, cough::

Sorry, can't ::cough:: breathe right now...

With all the ::cough:: smug in the air...

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, the wood does make it good.

-Kenny R

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[Grishnakh]

Sorry, but the old model is simply better, and iTunes sucks. The reason is DRM. If you buy something on iTunes, it has DRM, and only plays on an iPod or through Apple's iTunes application. Finally, it's compressed, and can't be converted to a different compression scheme (after hacking the DRM) without losing more quality.

By buying music on CDs (and I don't mean the fake CDs with copy protection, only true Red-Book compliant CDs), you get a perfect uncompressed digital copy of the music on a silver CD with a theoretically infinite lifespan: I still have CDs from the 80s that play perfectly. With modern computers, it's trivial to rip these CDs into MP3 or Ogg files with the codec and bitrate of your choice, or to FLAC which is losslessly compressed. If you change your mind and want your music collection in a different bitrate, you can re-rip all your CDs. 20 years from now, you'll still be able to get out your CDs and rip or play them; your iPod won't be operable in 20 years because the hard drive will have failed most likely, and whether you're allowed to redownload all that music for free depends on Apple's whims at that time.

For the ultimate in flexibility, longevity (without worrying about changing corporate policies), and freedom, an uncompressed digital media format on a physical medium without any DRM or copy protection is the only real choice, and currently, CDs are the only thing that fit this bill.

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[Grishnakh]

I don't really order cds anymore unless I find that they aren't contributing to the RIAA. Personally, I think that's best for everyone. Physical outdoor activity and the Arts are a far better way to spend your life than in front of a TV anyway.

Most people don't have jobs that let them not work, and instead spend all their time going to outdoor concerts. For those of us who spend a lot of time at a desk earning a paycheck, a portable music device is a nice way to tune out the office noise. This means you have to buy (or copy) music to play on this device; artists aren't going to come perform in your office.

Personally, I've found some very good sellers of authentic music CDs at very low prices on Ebay. The CDs have some small print in Russian, and some text saying the CDs are only to be sold in Russia and Ukraine, but I'm not worried about that.

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[Anonymous Coward]

most local bands suck.
local theater sucks unless you're in new york.
badminton sucks no matter where you are.

i cannot comprehend how you have not blown your own goddamn head off, you fucking tool.

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[AdmiralDouglas]

Most people have, at some point in their life, the time for recreation. What I'm talking about is what you do with that time. Do you spend it in from a Television? Do you spend it in movie theaters? Do you spend it shopping for the latest M/RIAA funded product?

Or do you spend it outdoors in physical activity, at the Arts, with you family, posting on /., supporting charities, or other more noble efforts?

You have a choice what you do with your free time, and I've found that the majority of money given to these Mafia organizations is money spent to waste ones time on things that aren't good for anyone. That's all I'm trying to say. Listening to music while working is totally different. Well, to me anyway.

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[Grishnakh]

My point is that most people don't sit around and just listen to music without doing something else. The only time I listen to music, and ONLY listen to music, is when I go to a live performance. Any other time, I'm doing something else: driving, working, using my computer at home (perhaps for /.), etc. I suspect most people are the same way, except perhaps for those "audiophile" wackos who like to sit around and stare at their $250k amplifiers and $30k speaker cables while they listen to vinyl records. We buy or copy music, and then listen to it while also doing something else. Notice how popular the iPod is; people aren't sitting around with their iPods and earbuds just staring into space, unless they're stuck waiting in line or on a plane.

Obviously, this isn't really true for MPAA-funded products, as they demand the attention of both your eyes and your ears. Usually, people don't do anything else while watching movies, so your point stands there. But for music, I think you're off-base.

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[AdmiralDouglas]

As I typed my last message I was thinking of just that. And frankly, I agree with you.

I was thinking more of the MPAA in my previous posts. As for the RIAA, as evil as they are, my point doesn't apply to them.

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[jav1231]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with that. I just don't buy new CD's because I don't want to feed the monster. I'd much rather have a true, uncompressed representation of the original and no DRM.
It's the old business model I loath. I wasn't clear about that.

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[Grishnakh]

I don't like feeding the monster either, but I'm not sure you'd feed it any less by buying albums on iTunes instead of on CDs.

Unfortunately, all my favorite bands are still RIAA-signed (I think), since they're all big names from the 70s and 80s. I almost always buy used CDs however, though I'm now seeing brand-new CDs at my local record store for $8 and $9.

Interestingly, I'm hearing from several people with teenagers that their kids are listening to a lot of 70s and 80s music now.

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[Stormie]

Aha! I read about you in the paper!

Here it is: Area Man Constantly Mentioning He Doesn't Own A Television

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[jav1231]

"Interestingly, I'm hearing from several people with teenagers that their kids are listening to a lot of 70s and 80s music now."
Can you really blame them with what's being trotted out as music today? :)

Re:I'm glad that I no longer consume mass media.

[Grishnakh]

Can you really blame them with what's being trotted out as music today? :)

That's exactly what I was thinking. But it also gives me hope that maybe the younger generation isn't completely hopeless. :-)

More like a cracker with no brains

[WindBourne]

If they would give him anything, and he only got 15K?????? What an idiot.

Re:More like a cracker with no brains

[rvw]

If they would give him anything, and he only got 15K?????? What an idiot. Yeah but they promised him he would meet Elvis! That counts for something too I would think.

Re:More like a cracker with no brains

[PopeRatzo]

I think you guys are on to something. They offer him riches and power and 15k is what he settles for.

Selling your soul is one thing, but selling it cheap is unconscionable.

Remember, though, when it comes to the buying and selling of souls: You get what you pay for.

Re:More like a cracker with no brains

[Hijacked Public]

I read that as they promised him anything.

He probably asked for $10 million and they probably agreed. After deduxcting various ancilliary expenses, office rental, studio time, roadies, electrical power factor multiplier, candy bars, in office Jolt delivery, the deposit on his office key, and various other miscellaneous Usual & Customary Fees, and taxes, his check was about $15k.

Re:More like a cracker with no brains

[Midnight Thunder]

If they would give him anything, and he only got 15K?????? What an idiot.

Maybe he signed the same contract most as most RIAA artists (there doesn't seem to be much between RIAA and MPAA).

Re:More like a cracker with no brains

[Minwee]

Uh, well, like, when we first come in the bar lady never charged us for the first round so like we figured you know beer was like complimentary for the hackers, you know.

Re:More like a cracker with no brains

[aadvancedGIR]

That's still a far better deal than what most artists get.

Re:More like a cracker with no brains

[Mister Whirly]

"You know you nerds owe me a lot over money for that beer you drank tonight, goddammit.!"

Re:More like a cracker with no brains

[markbt73]

Well, he asked for the phone number of the girl holding the Uzi, but she turned him down.

Re:More like a cracker with no brains

[pjt33]

Still, at least he didn't ask for a fixed percentage of the profit.

Re:More like a cracker with no brains

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard they offered him Cake.

Well, he'll get no help from me. Maybe he can try Black Mesa. That was a joke, ha ha, fat chance.

Re:More like a cracker with no brains

[zobier]

If they would give him anything, and he only got 15K?????? What an idiot.

Maybe he signed the same contract most as most RIAA artists (there doesn't seem to be much between RIAA and MPAA). No, then he would've had to pay them.

Hm

[Kaitnieks]

If this is really true, it must mean that MPAA seriously believe they can close illegal interweb media distribution channels. Either they underestimate scale of the problem or overestimate their own power and influence, in any case they live in a dream world.

Re:Hm

[Opportunist]

What do you expect? After creating dream worlds for decades, it's only logical that they start living in them, too.

Re:Hm

[Artifakt]

It sounds fantastic, but I almost believe this story. Paying someone just $15,000 and thinking it would both make a major dent in their problems and get the kind of service they would need is all of a piece with 'living in a dream world'. The pattern fits - the MPAA has shown in other actions that they would think it's smart to spend lots on politicians, but hire somebody technical with the promise a good job and a pay off in chump change. Look at the small companies they have picked to implement various DRM schemes, and how easily those schemes have failed.
      In unrelated news, NASA has hired New Jersey laundrymat owner Marco Delgrepio to create a permanent lunar colony. For now, they're only offering him $15,000, but if he just beats some invading space aliens by uploading a virus from his apple powerbook, he'll get a car. It's a really nice car.

Re:Hm

[east coast]

You kidding? Do you know the number of people I know who won't download a couple of songs anymore because of the fear of lawsuits? These people are now legal consumers.

Not to mention the potential out-of-court payoffs to be had if the MPAA can bring up charges. 15K is a good investment if they can turn it around.

Re:Hm

[jamar0303]

I moved to China. Download or rip (CDs come from street vendors, naturally), and bring it back.

Re:Hm

[Hoi Polloi]

I hear the MPAA also offered some guy some gold coins if he would head to the Garden of Gethsemane and point out an annoying rabble rouser to the police.

Re:Hm

[stonecypher]

Yeah, because anyone who spends $15,000 to stop a haemmorrhaging of millions of dollars a month is totally braindead, and if the problem can't be stopped, there's no sense in trying to make it less bad.

It's a shame there isn't a metamoderation for "blind zealot." Whoever modded you up wasn't thinking.

Re:Hm

[Kaitnieks]

Using ineffective methods with questionable legality for solving huge problems quite often is worse than not trying at all.

Re:Hm

[networkassault]

Here's what I would do. I would keep track of information, per my contract with the MPAA, but, at the same time, (since I'm the major source of information and have a monopoly of the information reaching the MPAA) I would download copyrighted content and make it available, just so I fleece them behind their backs. What's wrong with costing the MPAA money in two different ways at the same time? It also seems like the perfect opportunity to catch up on the latest episodes of your favorite tv show, if you know what I mean hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

This is becoming the norm

[bogaboga]

The other day, one former Bush insider was also "telling all!" And just last night, I watched the former CIA spy saying something similar about her former job and bosses. What's going on? Are these new trends?

Re:This is becoming the norm

[mentaldingo]

Yeah I've noticed the same thing recently... What about the employees exposing Fox which was on digg yesterday (yeah I visit digg occasionally. Mod me down).

Ob. Matrix Quote

[cocotoni]

It seems that you've been living two lives. One life, you're Robert Anderson, program writer for a respectable Movie association. You have a social security number, pay your taxes, and you... help your landlady carry out her garbage. The other life is lived in computers, where you go by the hacker alias "Neo" and are guilty of virtually every computer crime we have a law for. One of these lives has a future, and one of them does not.

Re:Ob. Matrix Quote

[Jugalator]

And I, Robert Anderson, think I'll take the pill with a swastika on it.

Re:Ob. Matrix Quote

[Anonymous Coward]

This must be how they recruited Agents Smith, Brown and Jones.

Mr. Anderson the hacker...

[Anonymous Coward]

Mr. Anderson the hacker... let the matrix jokes begin!

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

"Didn't know"? Right.

[MoonFog]

The MPAA does not dispute it paid Anderson for the sensitive information, but insists that it had no idea that Anderson stole the data. "The MPAA obtains information from third parties only if it believes the evidence has been collected legally," says MPAA spokeswoman Elizabeth Kaltman.

Essentially, the MPAA said "we will give you anything if you rat these people out and obtain evidence for us", yet "didn't know" he was doing it illegally? Please, just shows how desperate they can be and what kind of morale these people have.

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[blake1]

Sure it's a questionable practise, but it's no different to what any number of corporations would do in a similar circumstance. If they don't ask how he got the information, they don't know, their hands don't need to be cleaned.

You find this suprising?

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[gsslay]

Is there not something deliciously ironic about one set of criminals complaining about the illegal, immoral activities of another?

Actually, the situation is just a bit too cloying for my tastes.

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[MoonFog]

Surprising? Not really, expected more like it, but this is an organisation that constantly calls entire P2P networks into question because there MIGHT be illegitimate content on them. They even slam the protocol itself, claiming it is illegal, and are caught red handed doing illegal deeds themselves. Schadenfreude more than surprise I'd say.

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[marcello_dl]

Indeed- And what would be the rationale behind contacting Anderson in the first place if RIAA truly believed he would obtain the info legally?
OTOH this anderson better have proof for what he's saying.

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[Threni]

> Please, just shows how desperate they can be and what kind of morale these people have.

If this guy ever goes to prison - for this or some other crime - he'll discover pretty quickly what his fellow inmates think of grasses. I wonder how much dental work you can get for $15,000? I guess he might have a chance to find out.

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[Red Flayer]

Essentially, the MPAA said "we will give you anything if you rat these people out and obtain evidence for us", yet "didn't know" he was doing it illegally? Please, just shows how desperate they can be and what kind of morale these people have.

Please, RTFA.

Anderson approached them, saying pretty much, "I can get you this info, how much is it worth to you?"

Then, when they met, he told them that he had "an informant" who had access to the info. Two degrees of separation? There's plausible deniability right there. Do I believe they knew the info was obtained illegally? No. Do I believe they made any kind of effort to find out? No as well. But it doesn't really matter, since they can plausibly deny that they had knowledge of how the info was obtained.

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[CmdrGravy]

To be fair if I instructed my minions to:

"Get this project finished to everyones satisfaction and I don't care how you do it"

I'd be a bit surprised if they came back to me the next day and said

"Hey boss, that project thing. It's all fixed up real nice now. Real nice"

And it turned out they'd done it by killing all the people who were waiting for it.

I think most rational people when told to use whatever means necessary take it for granted this means whatever means available within the law. Particulary if you've signed a contract specifically saying that.

This Anderson bloke is basically an idiot, the MPAA paid him peanuts, probably knew full well he was going to break the law to get them the information they wanted but let him go ahead with it anyway having insulated themselves as much as possible from any actions he sees fit to take upon himself.

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[Sique]

In Germany we have a word for that: "Catch the thief, he has my knife in his back!"

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[Col. Klink (retired)]

True, you would not expect programmers to kill customers. On the other hand, I doubt you'd be shocked if you found GPLed code in the product (especially if, in your instructions, you pointed out examples of similar GPLed projects).

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[Killjoy_NL]

To be fair if I instructed my minions to:

"Get this project finished to everyones satisfaction and I don't care how you do it"

I'd be a bit surprised if they came back to me the next day and said

"Hey boss, that project thing. It's all fixed up real nice now. Real nice"

And it turned out they'd done it by killing all the people who were waiting for it. That's just thinking outside the box ;)

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[CmdrGravy]

That's the kind of thinking that would get my employees in the box, permanently. Dead men tell no tales.

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[Gumbercules!!]

Nonsense. They asked him to provide them with information he had no legal way to be in possession of, nor to transfer. They asked him to commit a crime. That's accessory, my friend.

Example:
If I tell you to provide me with Rio Tinto's secret environment impact analysis report on a Uranium mine and you cough it up, but I know full well you don't work for Rio Tinto public relations, then I also know full well it's a stolen report. Even if someone gave it to you, they & you have no permission to pass it on to me.

This is exactly the same.

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[muffen]

Essentially, the MPAA said "we will give you anything if you rat these people out and obtain evidence for us", yet "didn't know" he was doing it illegally? Please, just shows how desperate they can be and what kind of morale these people have.

Well, they knew it would make a huge difference on the pirate copying in the world which is why they went this far.
Haven't everyone noticed how CD / Movie sales went through the roof after torrentspy went down?
It was like the whole world just changed over night... so one can completely understand why xxAA want to close down one specific torrentsite and are willing to break laws to get there.

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[jfuredy]

In Germany we have a word for that: "Catch the thief, he has my knife in his back!"

Wow! German must be an amazing language if that can be translated into a single word!!

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[stonecypher]

Is there not something deliciously ironic about one set of criminals complaining about the illegal, immoral activities of another?

There's something delicious about it, but it's not irony.

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[stonecypher]

Essentially, the MPAA said "we will give you anything if you rat these people out and obtain evidence for us", yet "didn't know" he was doing it illegally?

Wait, let me get this straight. This guy worked for a company whose entire reason to exist was to index illegal content, and you're surprised that he is of poor character? (I'll spare you the morals vs morale quip.)

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[CrkHead]

Is there not something deliciously ironic about one set of criminals complaining about the illegal, immoral activities of another?

Yes, that's why I look forward to elections.

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[hawk]

If you can't express a thought as a single german word without violating any grammar rules, you're just not trying . . . :)

hawk

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[drsmithy]

Wow! German must be an amazing language if that can be translated into a single word!!

German: proudly turning sentences into words and words into sentences.

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[gsslay]

Oh yes it is.

Oxford English Dictionary

"a state of affairs that appears perversely contrary to what one expects"

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[stonecypher]

Dictionaries sell according to word count. Therefore, to accept new definitions is an advertising tactic. The Oxford English Dictionary hasn't had standards for forty years; that's why they've accepted the misspelled company name of a company that has existed for less than ten years as a non-slang word. That is contrary to the rules Oxford themselves laid out less than fifty years ago, wherein a term in circulation for less than a hundred years could not be considered anything but slang, and could have no normative meaning.

Linguistics isn't an armchair game. If you've never taken classes or read textbooks (and it's pretty clear that you haven't if you think the OED is a lexicon with discretionary quality worth using as a reference) then you should stop pretending to know what you're talking about.

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[CodeBuster]

the MPAA paid him peanuts, probably knew full well he was going to break the law to get them the information they wanted but let him go ahead with it anyway having insulated themselves as much as possible from any actions he sees fit to take upon himself.

Is it possible to "insulate" legally against the consequences of actions taken by people under your employ? If the MPAA knew, or should have known, that illegal means would be used to obtain the information then they should still be held liable for the consequences of actions taken on their behalf. You can try and be as oblique and indirect as you want to when hiring the hitman, but that doesn't "insulate" one from the consequences.

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[Lunzo]

A bit of googling with my beginner's German turned up "Haltet den Dieb, er hat mein Messer im Rücken!" It's not actually one word, but more of a saying. But as other posters have pointed out the German language loves its compound words, so I wouldn't have been too surprised if it was one massive word.

Re:"Didn't know"? Right.

[Sique]

Actually German uses "Wort" in two different meanings: 1. word 2. saying. The first one has the plural "Wörter", the second one the plural "Worte".

Oh Please

[Anonymous Coward]

"If you save Hollywood for us you can become rich and powerful"? Does anyone really think the MPAA's lawyers are dumb enough to give a quote like that?

Re:Oh Please

[Hanners1979]

You're right, there's no way an MPAA lawyer would say that - It's bound to constitute copyright infringement from some cheesy movie or other.

Re:Oh Please

[BlueStrat]

"If you save Hollywood for us you can become rich and powerful"? Does anyone really think the MPAA's lawyers are dumb enough to give a quote like that?

Apparently, you've never had any dealings with talent scouts or record label A&R reps. They routinely promise the world to their prospects, but end up bending them over with no lube. This is entertainment industry SOP.

Cheers!

Strat

Re:Oh Please

[Jesus_666]

I'm somewhat surprised he got away with 15 kilobucks in the positive...

Re:Oh Please

[Anonymous Coward]

Sum of Products?

Son of a pitch?

I'm curious. what's your acronym stand for?

Re:Oh Please

[per contra]

Was the 15K on the Gross or the Net?

Re:Oh Please

[BlueStrat]

Sum of Products?

Son of a pitch?

I'm curious. what's your acronym stand for?

Just in case your question wasn't sarcasm, and for general informational purposes, SOP stands for "Standard Operating Procedure".

Strat

Welcome to Hell

[Anonymous Coward]

Free open source projects, pirating, and all that jazz are no different. They just swap money for free gear and being chummy. You guys think that just because the MPAA represents companies you can make some big deal out of being better. Well, you're not. You're just the same. One day, you'll wake up and realise this, and guess what? You'll be hated by another generation of wannabes and losers who want to take a slice out of your ass. Welcome to hell.

Re:Welcome to Hell

[gomiam]

Get back to troll university, you still don't cut it.

Re:Welcome to Hell

[Anonymous Coward]

"Free open source projects, pirating, and all that jazz are no different. They just swap money for free gear and being chummy."

Hell? It sounds more like Richard Stallman's idea of Heaven.

Mr. Anderson

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell me, Mr. Anderson, what good is a 100mbps connection when you are unable to share?

Re:Mr. Anderson

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe this is the same guy?

Re:Mr. Anderson

[PK077295]

And tell me Mr. Anonymous, what good is sharing when you eventually have nothing to share? People ought to support those company by buying their products, they (some) costs millions in term of budget you know. I for one enjoy sharing and hate to pay for stuff, but put yourself in their shoes, imagine you spent $100mil for a movie budget and it end up getting spread for free on the net. Let alone profit, you can't even get your budget back. Well, just my 2 cents for those who are such a hater to these companies.

Re:Mr. Anderson

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.bash.org/?9501

AgentSmith: It seems you have been leading two lives, Mr. Anderson. In one life, you are Robert Anderson, assistant cook at a Jack in the Box in Mesquite....in the other...you go by the chat alias "Randerson"...spreading homosexual propoganda, lying, and being a generally immature pest...
AgentSmith: One of these...has a future.
Randerson: LMAO OMFG where's the phone, I have to tell Dean about this
AgentSmith: How can you use the phone when you cannot...speak?
*** AgentSmith sets mode: +m

Re:Mr. Anderson

[PygmySurfer]

Now, look at why the movie cost them $100 million to make. How much of that is salary for the actors? I think some of the bigger name actors are commanding salaries of $20 million or more (AND a percentage of the profits). I understand these people need to get paid, but is their work really worth that much?

Subject

[Legion303]

"Rich and powerful" on $15K? Are they high?

Re:Subject

[Anonymous Coward]

No, but he is!

MPAA losing money

[carlosap]

From Piratebay Top Torrent Movies ...

I.Now.Pronounce.You.Chuck.And.Larry[2007]DvDrip[Eng]-aXXo SE 5257 LE 11556
MPAA Lose: Total: (5257 + 11556)* $19.99dlls = $336,091.87dlls

Pirates.Of.The.Caribbean-At.World's.End[2007]DvDrip[Eng]-aXXo 10-17 19:11 Decargar 900.29 MiB 5182 7394
MPAA Lose: Total: (5182 + 7394) * 19.99dlls = $251,394.24dlls

1/2 Million Dollars just in 2 movies, so yes!, they have to do something.

Re:MPAA losing money

[Fred_A]

MPAA Lose: Total: (5257 + 11556)* $19.99dlls = $336,091.87dlls
MPAA Lose: Total: (5182 + 7394) * 19.99dlls = $251,394.24dlls/qhote>
Who would have thought dynamic libraries were so popular on p2p networks. I wonder what people do with them.

Re:MPAA losing money

[deftcoder]

You're forgetting that the overwhelming majority of people pirating those films would NOT pay to see them.

So, let's say about $100 USD per film and call it even.

Re:MPAA losing money

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the kind of accounting right management companies make all over the world. And it's totally wrong.

Many people download a film they have already seen, cos they liked it. But they don't like it enough to get the original DVD => No profit loss.

Many people download movies that they deem not worth of paying to go to the cinema. Should there be no p2p, they would not see the movie anyway nor buy the DVD => No profit loss.

The films I really like, I watch them in cinema. They movies I love, I get the original DVD too. The movies I don't care about, I download them and watch them when I have nothing better to do. But no way I was going to go to the cinema to see them.

Also, add the fact that lots of us download a ton of movies and get to watch about 1% of them.

So the real figures of lost profit are probably about 10% of what they claim.

They need to realize that their business model is no longer valid. Technology has made it obsolete, same way mobile phones made traditional phone companies business model obsolete (that's why you now get free calls from/to "fixed" phone numbers).

Re:MPAA losing money

[dave420]

And if those people aren't actually going to buy the movie:

I.Now.Pronounce.You.Chuck.And.Larry[2007]DvDrip[Eng]-aXXo SE 5257 LE 11556
MPAA Lose: Total: (5257 + 11556)* $0 = $0

Pirates.Of.The.Caribbean-At.World's.End[2007]DvDrip[Eng]-aXXo 10-17 19:11 Decargar 900.29 MiB 5182 7394
MPAA Lose: Total: (5182 + 7394) * $0 = $0

Or, if the people who download it will buy it on DVD or go to see it at the cinema, then there is no correlation between those who download and lost revenue. None at all.

Re:MPAA losing money

[Machtyn]

mod the above insightful. Just because someone downloaded it, does not mean they would have purchased it if the download was not available.

Re:MPAA losing money

[saltydog56]

What a crock of shit. If the tired old "I would not have bought it anyways ..." tripe is the best logic you can come up with it is clear that you must have lost a bet with God and as a result, had to submit to a lobotomy. Clear and simple, you are pinching a service which you have not paid for.

Just because the jackasses in the entertainment industry are a bunch of slime maggots does not mean that you have the right to use whatever means you can find to circumvent their business model - the bottom line is that the movies and music you are stealing is their property, created at their expense, not yours. So of course they have the right to control the distribution of the fruits of their labors. No matter how screwed up they are.

If you were caught picking the lock on the back door of a concert hall in order to get into a concert for free would you expect the coppers to send you on your way after you explained that you really did not want to see the band anyways because their music sucks?

If you were caught jumping the door on a city bus to get a free ride would the judge turn you loose after you explained that there was no loss of profits because there were empty seats anyways? I think not.

How is this any different than taking your handi-cam into your local strip club and filming the goings on for your next "skanks gone wild" movie on the basis that the wench was going to be on the pole anyways?

All you are doing is making a lame attempt at justifying your lack of respect for the rights of others.

Re:MPAA losing money

[Technician]

How many of those downloads are the same as a lost sale? I doubt the quality is the same as the retail DVD and could fetch the same price. Was it a lost sale, or a lost rental? At full retail price, would the lack of a download make a retail purchase? The prices given are as always, shown as the MAX possible loss for the most impact. Many people who would never pay full retail would buy if the price was reasonable. I for one don't spend over $15 on DVD's. Most of the time, I spend under $10. Calling DVD's at twice that price a lost sale at $19.99 because it can be downloaded is a pipe dream. It's a lost sale because it is $19.99.

Re:MPAA losing money

[speaker of the truth]

1/2 Million Dollars just in 2 movies, so yes!, they have to do something. A reasonable person would suggest thyey stop making shit movies. Unfortunately the MPAA companies aren't run by reasonable people.

Re:MPAA losing money

[toQDuj]

Your argument is misplaced.

Parent argued that the amounts mentioned were not representative for the actual loss. You argue that the parent is lobotomized and resort to countless bad analogies to make the point that parent is stealing the propoerty of the entertainment industry (I won't go into the stealing vs. copying argument here).

Please stick to the point in future posts.

B.

Re:MPAA losing money

[Anonymous Coward]

On multiple occasions downloading something has actually gotten me to make a purchase I never would have otherwise, so I suppose they would count as a "gained sale". I downloaded Firefly, for example, and when I finished it I immediately ordered it online. If I hadn't downloaded it I would never have bought it.

Re:MPAA losing money

[Anonymous Coward]

I am intrigued by your idea and would like to sign up for your newsletter

Re:MPAA losing money

[saltydog56]

Well maybe you should go into the sodding stealing vs. copying argument - after all what the suck-holes in the entertainment industry are selling are copies of their product. So even though there is no loss incurred by the cost of producing the legitimate copies intended for sale, you are impacting their ability to sell the copies they produce. Countless bad analogies? I think not, Maybe three, can you count that high? One more bad analogy if you please - would it be acceptable for me to make copies of your Mom's wedding photos for me ad my mates because doing so would not cost you anything? Once again, stealing vs. copying.

Re:MPAA losing money

[SyscRAsH]

So if, say, during the holidays, the entire family is over and my dear old Ma rents (*rents*, mind you) a movie and we all watch it, am I to understand that we are all committing a crime? Because really, this scenario of lost revenue is no different than if everyone in my family were to just download the same movie and watch it individually. About the only thing lost is the $3.00 on the rental fee. But then, those high speed internet connections cost money too, don't they?

Re:MPAA losing money

[saltydog56]

Bogus arguement - if you have a legitimate rental and you show it to guests in your home I believe that you are well within the terms defining the authorized use of the CD. I could be wrong but that does not happen very often. However, if you were to rent a CD and then show it in the waiting room of your local family planning clinic it would be considered commercial use and the industry would have every right to rip you a new arse over it. Remember, no matter muck splattered the movie is it is still their property and that includes the right to distribrute it as they see fit. And I don't see how all these little wankers get the same rights just because their mum bought them a home computer.

Re:MPAA losing money

[jamar0303]

I bought it already, just that my laptop's an import. Region-lock prevents me from viewing it. I have D/L torrents because I move around so much that only those are guaranteed to work. Fix that, then you have an argument.

Re:MPAA losing money

[Anonymous Coward]

I pirate movies a lot, I like movies a lot. Not just hollywood, but from almost every country. I cannot watch them in theatre, because These kind of movies are just not popular enough to play in a theatre, and the dvd prices are outrageous. I can watch a local movie for less than 1$, and the highest I have paid for a movie in theatre is a mere 5$. 13$ is just not worth a stupid movie, so I , along with thousands of my friends in this country, pirate. I find a lot of seeds from my own country, and can send you the screenshots as an evidence. So do my friends in Thailand, Brazil ,and many more developing countries. If the movie is unavailable on torrent, it must be a stupid movie anyway, and I choose not to watch it. I have bought very few DVD's , and the movies were mostly Japanese, Hindi, or French. Only because I rate them my favourite movies of all time. This might be an anecdotal case arguing for GP, but there are a large number of such cases with me. (and yeah, Pirates of the Caribbean III has been downloaded by at least 10 of my friends independently.)

Re:MPAA losing money

[Anonymous Coward]

WHOA SLOW DOWN, Those releases are both using a crapware laden custom codec which has an XVID plugin just to compete.

This is the crap that happened to Napster and they're using social engineering to spew it onto bitorrent.

Mod parent down just in case.... next time dude check your sources.

Re:MPAA losing money

[Immerial]

There is a correlation between those who download and lost revenue. It's not zero but it's also far from the $19.99 DVD they would claim.

Just for the ease of calculation, says you pay $28/month ($1/day) for your connection and it takes you an hour to download... that's about $.04, and that's on the cheap side. Even if you triple it (takes longer to download, more expensive connection) and burn it to a blank DVD, $.30 to play on the player downstairs (maybe you don't have some mo-funky fresh system that can handle a digital file). So it more like it's worth $.42 :-)

Re:MPAA losing money

[sgarringer]

Install a program called VLC and then you can watch the DVD. Which I highly doubt you really own, anyway.

Re:MPAA losing money

[toQDuj]

When copying you might devaluate their product slightly. Is it stealing? No, you are not bereaving the original owner from his physical product. Is it copying? Yes. Is it copyright infringement? Yes, absolutely.

leaving your quip about my counting abilities to the side for a moment, and moving on to your analogy: sure, it would be allright for you to copy my mothers wedding photo's (even though for the light of day I cannot imagine what pleasure you'd get out of doing so). They are not protected by any rights, merely the standard copyright. If you copy it and make a profit from the photo's, then you're in breach of the law. What that has to do with stealing versus copying, I am at a loss there.

Oh

Re:MPAA losing money

[toQDuj]

Oh, and I counted eight bad analogies in your message. There may be more, but this is what I counted.

Re:MPAA losing money

[aicrules]

Yeeesss...so I can steal cars that I would never buy because then the value of what I stole is zero! What a grand stupid idea that is!

Re:MPAA losing money

[Anonymous Coward]

how about mega$ box sets that you could have taped legally off the TV in the first place?
How about if the file came from a TV broadcast?

Seriously talk about taking the customer for every penny.

Re:MPAA losing money

[hummassa]

Well maybe you should go into the sodding stealing vs. copying argument - after all what the suck-holes in the entertainment industry are selling are copies of their product.

So even though there is no loss incurred by the cost of producing the legitimate copies intended for sale, you are impacting their ability to sell the copies they produce. Are you telling me that it should be forbidden NOT going to a theatre watch Mr.And.Mrs.Smith? Because when you don't go to the theatre, you are impacting their ability to sell tickets, you know? Now: I am not disputing or making any argument that it's right to download Mr.And.Mrs.Smith.Xvid.avi -- I agree illegitimately copying is Wrong -- but I am asking HOW does one person that would not go to the theatre nor buy the DVD but downloads the file is impacting their ability to sell the copies they produce??? That is the point of the OP: in no way. That is to say, maybe 10% of the people that download something ceases to buy one copy of some form, maybe even less.

Countless bad analogies? I think not, Maybe three, can you count that high?

One more bad analogy if you please - would it be acceptable for me to make copies of your Mom's wedding photos for me ad my mates because doing so would not cost you anything? Once again, stealing vs. copying. As I said, that was not the argument at all.

Re:MPAA losing money

[aicrules]

Here's one of those FBI warnings: http://www.dontquotemeonthat.com/images/Warning%20screens/cap013.jpg

It is true that you can play a DVD in your home as a private viewing. The sticky part would be if you were having a party where people may have to pay to get in or something like that. Family over for movie night? A-okay.

Re:MPAA losing money

[fredklein]

No, because 'stealing' cars deprives their original owner of them.

COpying cars, on the other hand....

Re:MPAA losing money

[Anonymous Coward]

I.Now.Pronounce.You.Chuck.And.Larry[2007]DvDrip[Eng]-aXXo SE 5257 LE 11556

What about those that downloaded it, and couldn't bear to watch past the first 20 minutes?

Re:MPAA losing money

[aicrules]

Alright, fine, how about taking a car from Enterprise RAC for a day and returning it? Yes, I understand that it's information...bits/bytes/whatever and that you haven't directly taken a CD out of their warehouse. But you are getting the benefit of their service without the associated cost.

Re:MPAA losing money

[Anonymous Coward]

Still not the same. You're adding wear and tear to the car, as well as directly depriving them of renting that car to someone else. When you download a movie, the only possible potential profit you're depriving them is a sale to yourself. If you already knew it was a movie you would never consider buying or renting at any price, you know you're not depriving them of anything.

The flip side of that is, although it's true that a huge number of those downloaders would not have purchased the movie, it's also true that we're somewhat kidding ourselves. We all know that we regularly download some movies that we would have otherwise purchased, though perhaps they're outnumbered by the ones we know we would not have purchased.

What I'm wondering though is where the money that would have funded those "lost sales" gets spent. Chances are, the **AAs get some (possibly even most) of it in the end anyway. Kind of like that recent Las Vegas episode, where the new owner hands out $1000 to everyone in the casino. Build up some good feeling with them, (guess which casino they'll be going to next year to blow their stash) and you know he's going to get most of it right back in the next couple hours anyway. Too bad the **AAs aren't capable of thinking outside the box like that.

Re:MPAA losing money

[funkatron]

Many people download movies that they deem not worth of paying to go to the cinema. Should there be no p2p, they would not see the movie anyway nor buy the DVD => No profit loss.

The films I really like, I watch them in cinema. They movies I love, I get the original DVD too. The movies I don't care about, I download them and watch them when I have nothing better to do. But no way I was going to go to the cinema to see them.

Does anyone else think that any opportunity is being missed at cinemas? There should be a rack of DVDs by the exit so people can buy them on the way out while they still feel good about whatever film they just sat through.

Re:MPAA losing money

[jamar0303]

Doesn't that use DeCSS? Is that legal? I've heard varying things about it- including that I'm pretty much in the same category as the torrenters if I use it. In that case, why not D/L the torrent instead? Saves battery, for one. And you can highly doubt me as much as you like- I won't go there.

Re:MPAA losing money

[tom's a-cold]

MPAA Lose: Total: (5257 + 11556)* $19.99dlls = $336,091.87dlls

Nope.

MPAA Lose: (5257 + 11566) * $19.99 * (1 - discount - cost) * (1 - P_Buy_Instead) - (5257 + 11566) * $19.99 * (1 - discount - cost) * (Purchases_Due_to_Each_Unapproved_Download)

First, their only loss is on the profit, not the revenue, on the average post-discount price of each unit. For example, if they were losing money on each unit, fewer sales would actually reduce their losses.

Second, this only applies to those units that would have been purchased at that post-discount price instead of being downloaded. Quite a lot of downloaders would probably leave it rather than take it at that price. And even that potential loss is offset by those sales that would occur because of the downloads having taken place. Both these (loss due to sharing, and additional sales due to sharing) have to take into account the downstream effect of everyone who listens to the song/watches the video as a consequence of the download, not just the downloader. For example, if a friend plays me a song that was downloaded and I like it so much that I then go and buy it, that's a purchase that's attributable to the download.

The sum of all that might be negative, or it might be positive. Because of the advertising effect of the dissemination of the music or video, it's not at all straightforward to know if money is being made or lost because of downloading (consider the case of broadcast radio). Note also that this assumes a fixed post-discount price. Lowering that might increase revenue significantly, and also reduce the incentive to do an unapproved download.

This also assumes that what's downloaded is the same as what's bought. If one is DRM-crippled and the other isn't, there's a qualitative difference that potentially will affect demand. A more complete analysis would also take into account the effort expended by the buyer during the buying and consumption of the item. This would include how much effort goes into trying to find and obtain the item (by licit or illicit means) and the effort to use it once you have it (greater if there's DRM involved).

What it all boils down to is that these associations of marketeers (which is what most media conglomerates really are) are well aware of the real factors that influence revenue, but are lying in court about the cost to them of file-sharing. And I'm sure the legislators who they bought also knew that the DMCA penalties were based on nothing but lies. That's what's so loathsome about this whole business: there are long chains and networks of mendacity, and public policy has been based on them. This has done nothing but brought the law into disrepute.

Re:MPAA losing money

[sgarringer]

Yeah, using a program that may or may not be legal is certainly the same as sharing a movie to users who do not have a license to be downloading it from you. Exactly the same thing. Except for the fact that one way, you're facilitating others to break the law too. I'll leave the exercise up to you to figure out which is which. And I don't believe you own the movies... for the record.

Re:MPAA losing money

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. How can you justify the price of new release DVD's in 2007 being so closely priced to when they first came out a long time ago? The materials are certianly cheaper now then they were then.

What exactly are we paying for? Haven't the record and movie companies been doing this for years? (Nod)

Re:MPAA losing money

[stonecypher]

You're forgetting that the overwhelming majority of people pirating those films would NOT pay to see them.

Yeah, yeah. People say that all the time because they think they can't be called on it. Nonetheless, those same people who say that about video games were lining up around the block after each and every failed attempt to crack Spyro. Believe it or not, most of the people who steal would in fact buy if they didn't have the option to steal. I'd refer you to ESA studies on the matter, but I'm sure you'd think they were biassed (god knows why - the more accurate their numbers, the better their proponents' ability to act) and reject it in favor of your imagination.

So, let's say about $100 USD per film and call it even.

Well, as long as we're making up numbers, why not call it $0? I bet that'd make you feel a whole lot better about your personal theft.

Just because you want to pretend stealing movies is okay, even if you have a flimsy justification, doesn't mean that it actually is. A better man would be ashamed to have said what you just said in public.

Re:MPAA losing money

[Endo13]

Bogus? No, it's not. You're wrong. This whole thread is about how much money the MPAA is losing, and the fact that their actual losses are not nearly as high as the losses they claim. This particular thread has nothing to do with the rightness or wrongness of copyright infringement.

Therefore the post you responded to and claimed as "bogus" is spot on. Where the MPAA would claim at probably several hundred dollars of loss (but certainly at least $20) the actual loss would have been less than $3.

Perhaps you should learn to read posts a bit more carefully before you post stupid responses.

Re:MPAA losing money

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, but define "reasonable". No matter what you charge, there are always going to be freeloaders out there who won't spend a dime unless they absolutely have to. The movie and music industries make a boat load of money, so there must be quite a lot of people who think the current prices are "reasonable".

That being said, I do agree with you in part. A download is not necessarily a lost sale (or rental), but don't use that as a justification to cheap out. If you don't want to pay the asking price for the product, what is so hard about making do without it?

Re:MPAA losing money

[g0rAngA]

They need to realize that their business model is no longer valid. Technology has made it obsolete, same way mobile phones made traditional phone companies business model obsolete (that's why you now get free calls from/to "fixed" phone numbers).

Who gives free phone calls to/from fixed phones? I want them to do my phone!
Seriously, though, I couldn't get by without a fixed phone. Calls to a call centre aren't charged by the minute when they're not made from a mobile.

Re:MPAA losing money

[Technician]

A download is not necessarily a lost sale (or rental), but don't use that as a justification to cheap out.

Simply put, I didn't cheap out. I didn't download it. I simply didn't buy it. Maybe when it's in the pre-viewed section at Blockbuster at 4 for $20, I'll pick it up. Otherwise it simply remains unsold at that price.

When products are priced for mass markets, the cost of goods is often not figured in high mark-up items. The sale price is based on the maximum profit point. Price it too low and you don't maximise profits. Raise the price and fewer units will sell, but the quainty sold at the high price is enough to maximise profit. If the price is raised too much, then volume drops enough to diminish profits.

The record lables haven't figured out the sweet selling price and focused too long on too high an average selling price instead of maximum profit. As a result, CD sales are way down while DVD sales are way up. Unfortunately, they are trying to capitolise on the HDTV craze and are selling HD movies in the laserdisk price range. Early adopters will pay the price, but don't expect the average price for a movie to remain at near $30. Won't happen as most people won't spend that much building a home library. A few titles will do well, but movies like Howard the Duck, 13 going on 30, Weekend at Bernie's, and other movies just them will not sell in quanity at that price. Phantom of the Opera may do OK.

Re:MPAA losing money

[Technician]

I downloaded Firefly

Great movie.. I rented it and enjoyed it. I have not seen it for sale recently, so haven't bought it.

Re:MPAA losing money

[deftcoder]

I don't download movies, so your point is moot.

Also, "failing" to crack a game? Even Starforce was cracked. Give me a break.

Media has been devalued to the point of no return.

Re:MPAA losing money

[DerangedAlchemist]

What a crock of shit. If the tired old "I would not have bought it anyways ..." tripe is the best logic you can come up with

Radiohead's "In Rainbows" could be 'bought' for $0 and yet a lot of people were still file-sharing it. People not even willing to buy an album for free if it requires registering an email address, were never going to spend money on it. Period. These are not lost sales. These 'lost sales' numbers obviously incredibly gross exaggerations to anyone with the most basic understanding of how prices affect sales.

Re:MPAA losing money

[stonecypher]

Also, "failing" to crack a game? Even Starforce was cracked. Give me a break.

I can see how you might assume that when other people are telling a story, that they might be making it up, since that seems to be your modus operandi (that "vast bulk" invention of yours being why I believe that.) However, I'm not like you. If you're going to talk about copy protection, first you should know something about how copy protection has worked in the real world. Spyro had several layers of copy protection, the middle several of which didn't immediately shut a game off; instead they introduced what appeared to be bugs into the game. On five seperate known occasions, major release groups released "cracked" versions of Spyro, each time to retract them afterwards. Each time, purchase rates spiked the following few days.

Give me a break.

If only you meant "a break from pretending to know things I don't on SlashDot." I write video games for a living. Chances are I know a little bit more about copy protection history than you do.

Media has been devalued to the point of no return.

No, it hasn't: many companies are getting extremely rich off of media. Your opinion, however, is a different matter.

Re:MPAA losing money

[jamar0303]

which makes my decision to move to China look better and better. I'll re-buy my movies in a form that will play on my laptop.

Re:MPAA losing money

[sgarringer]

I think we can be certain that as China moves closer to the 2008 Olympics the punishment for movie piracy will be a little bit stiffer than it is here in the states...

Re:MPAA losing money

[jamar0303]

Maybe around Beijing, where all the people will be. Shanghai- not nearly. I've moved in. and I can easily find 3 different vendors selling DVDs (no CSS or region-lock either; my problem is solved). They don't even try- the police are more conerned with things like keeping people from being run over by the crazy drivers around here.

Re:MPAA losing money

[sgarringer]

Yes, and whats your point? We both know those aren't legal copies of the movie. If you're going to break the law anyway, why pay for it in the first place?

You remind me of my friend, who rents movies from Netflix, to rip them. Whats the point? Both things are illegal. His arguement is "Well, I'm paying for it so I can do whatever I want." Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. You might as well go all out, and just download the movies.

Stop trying to justify it saying "but I bought this DVD, that I had no way of knowing was illegal, for a few cents on the street corner!!"

Re:MPAA losing money

[jamar0303]

Oh, I know very well that I am not exactly squeaky-clean. No doubt of that. (Oh, and the plus side to having a physical disc should be quite obvious if you have a stand-alone DVD player). I just felt like continuing the discussion thread for no particular reason. My justification exists for me alone- if people agree or disagree I don't really care (but living in China and going to a school where pretty much all the teachers, students, and staff do it means that most people around me agree with me- if I buy a DVD in America I want the damn thing to work in any DVD player no matter where I bought it, but they won't so pirated DVDs FTW).

Re:MPAA losing money

[aytiez]

im sure there are still many want to buy... but of course in the same time those pirated DVD dealer is in the way.. but to think from the +ve side...not all of those pirated DVD is in good quality.. for me...i had experienced the same situation again and again...and i can say only 3 over 10 of the pirated DVD is in good quality...and the rest ended as a garbage..lol now i just buy the orginal DVD, and i feel satisfy with the quality...lol just my opinion

It's every CS job description !!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, you dont have to look as far as the Matrix to feel that basically every CS job fits the description ...

You have a bunch of nerds (self included) with high speed Inet access, stacking up their harddrives with all the MP3/Divx/Porn/Animes/Warez they can find ...

So, how to cut piracy ?
1) ban internet traffic from any single university & grab those students having some computer
2) send the mafIAA to every computer-related worker's home, raiding for blank CD/DVDs
3) do the same for poor suburbs with any remote chance for interWeb access ...
4) brainwash all those taken in step 1,2&3 with maf-IAA sponsored messages
5) (mandatory) Profit !!

Re:It's every CS job description !!!

[Fallen Seraph]

You have a bunch of nerds (self included) with high speed Inet access, stacking up their harddrives with all the MP3/Divx/Porn/Animes/Warez they can find ...

Those are, incidentally, the names of the 5 hard drives I have in my desktop :)

Re:It's every CS job description !!!

[Anpheus]

The CIA's method:

1) Find geeks.
2) Gonzales says, "???" happened.
3) PROFIT!

Re:It's every CS job description !!!

[stonefry]

You have a bunch of nerds (self included) with high speed Inet access, stacking up their harddrives with all the MP3/Divx/Porn/Animes/Warez they can find ...

Those are, incidentally, the names of the 5 hard drives I have in my desktop :)

Same here, just slightly different. Mine say MP3z/Divxz/Pornz/Animez/Warez.

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[OrangeTide]

Way to stand up to them anonymous coward. You sure showed us with those cutting remarks.

So sorry that some people feel there needs to be some balance in copyright and patent laws. That it shouldn't be cranked up to the max where we have a SWAT team busting down people doors, while at the same time it should not be dropped to zero protection where anyone with the ability to perform duplication (anyone with a computer) could start copying creative works willy nilly.

(My comments are not meant to imply that Hollywood studios are manufacturing creative works)

15k?

[langelgjm]

If Hollywood thinks that 15 grand makes you rich and powerful, I think they need to examine more than their business model.

Re:15k?

[ubrgeek]

They paid him with the profits from Ishtar.

Re:15k?

[ultranova]

If Hollywood thinks that 15 grand makes you rich and powerful, I think they need to examine more than their business model.

They promised to make him rich and powerful, but then altered the deal, and Robert Anderson couldn't pray that they wouldn't alter it any further, having already sold out... for sweeties.

Re:15k?

[hawk]

>They promised to make him rich and powerful, but then altered the deal,

Boy, we just can't get away from the Star Wars thing . . .

hmm, now that I think of it, I used a "Darth" something character as an industry executive in the Naptster trial I used to have my law students do . . .

hawk

Promises, promises

[smchris]

We would give you a nice paying job, a house, a car, anything you needed.... if you save Hollywood for us you can become rich and powerful.' In 2005, the MPAA paid Anderson $15,000

Where does Anderson live, Lesotho?

Re:Promises, promises

[KudyardRipling]

HA HA! They all fell into the trap! Read what they have said and practically in the same order. It's all about the cushy job, the nice house, the car (SUVs are realtively more positional than passenger cars), etc. If this is not a dictionary definition of 'sell out', nothing is. What have I been bantering about since I got on /.?

Re:Promises, promises

[Mister Whirly]

"What have I been bantering about since I got on /.?"

Good question. We would ALL like to know.

Was a dark and stormy night

[packetmon]

"If I can only perl -pi -e 's:torrent:torrentspy4daMPAA:g' torrentSourceCode.c I can become a martyr with my story" said Mr. Anderson as he duped numerous websites into believing his story.

Re:Was a dark and stormy night

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out just how much I fucking hate it when people abuse Perl. You could have done that with sed, and it would have been one switch and three characters less to do it, to boot.

Perl rots your brain.

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[Opportunist]

So if I resort to illegal practices to protect an outdated business model that's no longer viable it's all right and fine? So those hackney drivers should've been allowed to slice car tires and blow up trains? Workers of a Detroit car plant should pool their last cents and rent a sub to sink those carrier ships from Japan?

Interesting point of view.

Career options

[Tropal]

Well if that's how much they're going to pay, I'm just going to become an undercover shopper...I'm sure I'll stop more DVD theft than this guy and get paid more than $15k.

You no longer consume mass media?

[Chas]

Yet you're on the Internet?

Riiight!

Re:You no longer consume mass media?

[Machtyn]

the Internet is media, yes, but it is NOT Hollywood. Hollywood does not have a hold on the term entertainment, and they aren't the only players in "entertainment media".

Here's a good article about it by /.'s favorite John Dvorak.

Re:You no longer consume mass media?

[gardyloo]

Here's a good article [pcmag.com] about it by /.'s favorite John Dvorak. Well, that statement right there is about equivalent to a divide-by-zero. I'll pass.

Re:You no longer consume mass media?

[gardyloo]

.... and then, like a total fuckwit, I went ahead and read the article, just to make sure I wasn't being a total ass and might have to retract the parent post. Really, it's just good news all around:

      (1) No, I don't have to retract the parent post;
      (2) I have a quick-heat soldering iron with which to stab out my eyes.

                    Later!

Re:You no longer consume mass media?

[Suhas]

I was beginning to like you, and then I read the article you linked to. THAT, is what you read? I mean, SERIOUSLY?

Re:You no longer consume mass media?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's just another ... b..
_ ... glitch in the matrix.

Re:You no longer consume mass media?

[mink]

"(2) I have a quick-heat soldering iron with which to stab out my eyes."

Lets see what Handy has to say.

"Well that was an Oedipal moment... Sophocles?... Oedipus Tyrannus?... The guy plucks his own eyes out... Read a Book!"

What an effing crock!

[Fuzzypig]

Biggest pile of Elephant wank I have ever seen! "If you hack TorrentSpy", "you can have anything you wish for", so here's a measly $15k! If he was tasked with saving a multi-billion dollar industry on his own, surely they could have a a quick whip-round at the MPAA directors meetings and probably raise 10x that in small change!!! Hacing TorrentSpy??!! WTF!? Hardly rocket science is it, its a publicly open web-server pushing out glorified text files telling you where file sharers are sharing copyrihted material! A few pokes about on WhoIs, the odd phone call here and there, leaving the IP collector on a few weeks on a few very popular torrents, work out the ISPs of those sharers and Bob's your Auntie's Live-In Lover, bish-bosh-zoom $500k please!

I'm sorry, but this smacks of FUD from the MPAA/RIAA bullshit, brain-storm meeting! How can we scare off casual "pirates"? I know, says bow-tied twat number 1, lets make up shit about professional hackers gathering your details and bringing down the fabric of society, or at least one of the 75 popular torrent sites.

Re:What an effing crock!

[rtb61]

A lesson for you about the rich and greedy, you don't get that way by giving away your money. Expect them to pay as little as possible, expect them in fact to lie, cheat and steal or when it comes right down to it kill, to make as much money as possible.

So as far as the MPAA were concerned, here was a weasel who had a falling out over an advertising based upon piracy scheme, and was seeking to profit via another method. They paid him as little as possible and because they were aware of the criminal implications of the weasels actions, they wanted no future associations with him, a one shot deal for as much as they could get.

So the evidence is tainted and worthless and the weasel should be prosecuted for gaining illegal access to a network, and if they have a copy of the code for the torrent back end they have committed a copyright infringement.

Re:What an effing crock!

[Anonymous Coward]

...british much?

Re:What an effing crock!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds to me like he simply had a grudge against Justin Bunnell and went to the MPAA to try to exact some revenge *and* get paid for it - he approached the MPAA, not the other way around. I certainly have no love for the MPAA, but Anderson strikes me as an immature little attention whore with no morals that's willing to sell out anyone to make a buck.

Re:What an effing crock!

[Raenex]

Love! Them!! Exclamation points!!! Do you?!?!

Re:What an effing crock!

[Fuzzypig]

LOL! Normally I'm a bit more careful on my punctuation, but this just got right up my nose. Why don't you, the almighty MPAA, just go out and arrest these people if need to? Oh wait, you can't. You need a various legal papers to cover such acivities. What a shame. So you try to spread your FUD hoping to scare people away.

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[tehcyder]

No, GP specifically said "legal" methods, so you haven't answered their point. Of course, if the methods are illegal, as seems to be the case, you're quite right.

Mod Up

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone please mod this funny/insightful. It's just great

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[Dunbal]

So an association of businesses used legal methods to protect their legal and legitimate income stream.

      Mr. Coward, please tell me why I can't:

a) watch a DVD that I purchased legally on my television via the TV-Out port on my video card, using my computer's DVD drive to read this legal DVD? Macrovision prevents that. There are ways around it, but they are illegal due to the DMCA.

b) watch a DVD that I purchased legally in linux, because apparently Hollywood hasn't bothered to write an official DVD-decoder for that operating system, yet they maintain that if anyone else does it, it's a DMCA violation?

The article misspoke . . .

[Nebuul]

It's pretty clearly obvious that they did not give him $15,000. What they ACTUALLY did was give him a free song download *valued at $15,000*

Jesus, please read the article before writing summaries!

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[Artifakt]

So an association of businesses just invoked the "All I said was "Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?"" defense to justify themselves, and now a bunch of mere peasant slashdotters are pointing up how they are acting like a historical tyrant because they're too dumb to realize the king has a divine right to oppress them?

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[dave420]

Those methods weren't legal.

Let me read your emails then

[emj]

It's easy to say that, but the right to privacy applies to criminals too. Perhaps we would have an easier time getting criminals caught if we wiretapped everybody, then they will have the same right as everyone else, and can't complain.

The reason you want criminals to get away, is because you don't want to be treated the same way. These rules apply whether you are an angry spouse, big company or the police.

Re:Let me read your emails then

[gsslay]

Oh absolutely, couldn't agree more. You should not apply the same standards of practice to yourself as those that operate illegally, even when you're acting against them. It was the nauseating sight of copyright pirates trying to take the moral high ground that I was referring to. As if they suddenly had a deep respect for the finer details of the law. After all, Anderson did not "steal" this data. They still have their data. He merely infringed their copyright by copying it. And we know how evil copyright is, don't we? Isn't that how the argument goes?

Re:Let me read your emails then

[Anonymous Coward]

There was no wiretapping involved dumbass. This wasn't a govt. operation. If you can't trust your own employees, it's your own tough luck. No honor among thieves is what this amounts to.

Re:Let me read your emails then

[stonecypher]

It's easy to say that, but the right to privacy applies to criminals too.

I don't believe he said anything to the contrary. All he was doing was rightfully pointing out how funny it is. Nobody's suggesting that it's right, just that it's hilarious. If you need another example of something that shouldn't happen but is nonetheless hilarious, insert Bush joke here.

The reason you want criminals to get away

Er, what? I think it's funny, and I don't want the criminals to get away. Maybe you shouldn't try reading between the lines so hard; you seem to be picking up signals from external sources. Not everyone on SlashDot sympathizes with content thieves.

Hmmm... so, this guy is a hero now?

[forestbrooke]

Isn't it ironic, that goodness is now "I did something evil before... but heyy, look at me now! am sorry and I am talking about it!" I think this guy would have been better off if he had refused MPAA and blew open the "bad intent" (well... one of them...) of the stupid execs all over the place! Kind of lame, to acknowledge now, after of course licking the green off the $$$. But, I guess that is the trend now...

Re:Hmmm... so, this guy is a hero now?

[stonecypher]

Isn't it ironic

No, mrs. Morisette, it isn't. Stop learning your language usage from Canadian Nickelodeon rejects.

Quotes from his diary...

[jpellino]

Anderson: Okay, here's the plan. We get the data and then hold the RIAA ransom for... 15 HUNDRED dollars!
Number Two: [clears throat] Sir, strictly speaking, fifteen hundred dollars will not go very far these days. My butler alone makes over fifteen hundred dollars a week.
Anderson: Really? Okay then... we hold the RIAA ransom for 15... THOUSAND dollars!

Re:Quotes from his diary...

[TrekkieGod]

Anderson: Okay, here's the plan. We get the data and then hold the RIAA ransom for... 15 HUNDRED dollars! Number Two: [clears throat] Sir, strictly speaking, fifteen hundred dollars will not go very far these days. My butler alone makes over fifteen hundred dollars a week. Anderson: Really? Okay then... we hold the RIAA ransom for 15... THOUSAND dollars!

EXACTLY what I was thinking. He must be the worst negotiator ever.

MPAA: "We would give you a nice paying job, a house, a car, anything you needed..."
Anderson: "I want $15,000"
MPAA: "Ok!"

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[speaker of the truth]

So an association of businesses used legal methods Stop right there. There's nothing legal about buying stolen property especially if you know the property is stolen. It has yet to be determined if the MPAA knew the property was stolen.

Ironically

[Anonymous Coward]

Where does Anderson live, Lesotho?

Ironically, Neo is a common name in Lesotho.

MAFIAA hacker?

[jollyreaper]

Ho boy, he's not going to have a good time when he makes it to the big house. If there's one thing hardened cons can't stand, it's a snitch. And if there's a subset of snitches they really can't stand, it's people who mess up file sharing for everyone else. This one guy had posted a bunch of torrents that were supposed to be really good movies but were instead just mislabeled copies of Britney Spear's Crossroads... that poor bastard got shivved in the shower.

Wait, what's that? He's not going to jail? *throws down hat, stomps on it* What the hell is this country coming to?

WTF?

[mosch]

'We would need somebody like you. We would give you a nice paying job, a house, a car, anything you needed.... if you save Hollywood for us you can become rich and powerful.' In 2005, the MPAA paid Anderson $15,000....."

That is a really fucking weak-sauce redefinition of rich and powerful. $15k? Christ. I wouldn't wipe my ass with $15k.

Re:WTF?

[speaker of the truth]

Can you tell me where you live and what time you typically empty your bowels? I'll be fishing through the sewers apartment connects to during those times for $15,000. I figure most people go once a day, so that's a pretty good wage for wading through shit.

Re:WTF?

[jimicus]

Put another way, $15k for a perl script which spiders torrentspy.com, parses all the IP addresses in all the torrent files it can find, does a whois on each of them and returns the results - a few hours work at most - seems like a pretty sweet deal.

Re:WTF?

[mosch]

"$15k to make people's lives miserable because they committed some minor IP violations? sweet deal!"

I would've expected people to want more money, but I guess it makes sense. There's always somebody who is sufficiently selfish to fuck everybody else over for a comically small sum of money.

Re:WTF?

[gardyloo]

Can you tell me where you live and what time you typically empty your bowels? I'll be fishing through the sewers apartment connects to during those times for $15,000. I figure most people go once a day, so that's a pretty good wage for wading through shit. My god. Talk about laundering money....

Re:WTF?

[ToxicBanjo]

I wouldn't wipe my ass with $15k.

Now that's dirty money!

Re:WTF?

[moderatorrater]

I'll wipe your ass for $15,000, but only once. Maybe twice.

internet != mass media

[weighn]

Re:You no longer consume mass media?
Yet you're on the Internet?

Riiight! Mass media is a term used to denote a section of the media specifically envisioned and designed to reach a very large audience such as the population of a nation state.
Mainstream is, generally, the common current of thought of the majority.

So, if AC just reads /. as opposed to, say, Digg he/she does not consume mass media. Objection overruled.

Re:internet != mass media

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot isn't mainstream? Why wasn't I told this?

*Runs off to watch reality TV in order to be more mainstream, then suffers imediate braindeath*

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[Technician]

a) watch a DVD that I purchased legally on my television via the TV-Out port on my video card, using my computer's DVD drive to read this legal DVD? Macrovision prevents that. There are ways around it, but they are illegal due to the DMCA.

Have you tried it with GeeXbox?
http://geexbox.org/en/index.html

They don't mention it is illegal in some countries in the about page.
On my video card, it does not enable Macrovision as that would require a royalty.

If he had hacked Microsoft

[speaker of the truth]

If this person had hacked Microsoft and posted the Windows source code online you would all be heralding him as a true freedom fighter. However because he hacked someone you like you say what he did was wrong.

I guess the motto here at slashdot is "you must respect people's rights, unless we don't like them."

Re:If he had hacked Microsoft

[Enrique1218]

If this person had hacked Microsoft and posted the Windows source code online you would all be heralding him as a true freedom fighter. However because he hacked someone you like you say what he did was wrong.

Not really. There is nothing valuable in the Windows Source Code./P>

Re:If he had hacked Microsoft

[vena]

I guess the motto here in life is "you must respect people's rights, unless we don't like them."

there, fixed that for ya.

Re:If he had hacked Microsoft

[MMC Monster]

Frankly, I think when the source to Win2K was released, the /. community was a bit more afraid than anything else (and with good reason -- there was a worry that various FOSS projects would get tainted by proprietary code).

Re:If he had hacked Microsoft

[tokul]

If this person had hacked Microsoft and posted the Windows source code online you would all be heralding him as a true freedom fighter.

Nope. What's the use of that source code, if person can't look at it. Read "Who can't contribute to Wine?" chapter in Wine FAQ

Re:If he had hacked Microsoft

[speaker of the truth]

Actually there are some crazy people who would protect your rights, such as your right to free speech, even if they don't like, or in my example don't like what you have to say. Unfortunately they're not particularly common here at slashdot it seems.

Re:If he had hacked Microsoft

[pizzach]

I hate to tell you this, but laughing when an "evil" person (or company) has their karma come back to haunt them is a part of human nature. It's a bit like when the person who punched you in the face steps in some dog crap. It just kind of makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Re:If he had hacked Microsoft

[DannyO152]

Exactly, if tagging had been around then, that would have been an itsatrap.

Re:If he had hacked Microsoft

[speaker of the truth]

It's a bit like when the person who punched you in the face steps in some dog crap. It just kind of makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Or like when someone who punched you (an aggressive and deliberate act) turns around and gets raped (another agressive and deliberate act)? Because AFAIK stepping into dog shit isn't a deliberate act for most people. Its not like someone could accidentally hack into Microsoft's network and then post the source code onto the internet.

Re:If he had hacked Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless that person smears his dirty foot off on you. Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy outside.

Re:If he had hacked Microsoft

[Draek]

you're new here aren't you? because it already happened and no, they weren't regarded as "true freedom fighters".

but please don't let facts get in the way of a good troll.

Re:If he had hacked Microsoft

[vadim_t]

Bullshit. Somebody released it already, there was a torrent somewhere IIRC.

There's nothing useful in MS code for pretty much anybody.

For those who'd like to improve on it, it's effectively pointless, as any attempt to release any improvement will result in a lawsuit from MS.

For those who'd like to reuse parts of the code, it's basically a death sentence for whatever project (open or not) they're involved in, as well as their professional carreer. Even if somehow it doesn't get to that it'll mean very serious problems at the very least.

For those who'd like to learn from it without copying anything, it's also dangerous, as one day MS might accuse them of copying parts of the Windows source.

For those who don't give a damn about it, it's still bad, as it gives MS a way to create problems for projects closely related to Windows like Wine and ReactOS, even if they never, ever saw a line of the original source.

Maybe about the only sort of person who benefits from it is the sort looking for holes to exploit in the OS to profit from, but even that is doable just fine without the source anyway, and somebody taking advantage of security exploits for money is infringing several laws already in any case. I don't think this kind is a significant part of the slashdot population.

If anybody gave me a CD with that, I'd grind it into tiny pieces, burn it, then scatter the ashes.

Re:If he had hacked Microsoft

[erdraug]

It can also be fixed to read:
I guess the motto here in MPAA is "you must respect people's rights, unless we don't like them.
Works both ways ;-)

Re:If he had hacked Microsoft

[drew]

Apparently you didn't start reading /. until after the incident where somebody (supposedly) leaked the Windows NT and 2K source code several years back. It's been a while, but I don't remember there being a lot of comments about freedom fighters. Mostly I remember comments about why Open Source coders shouldn't look at the source code - either because familiarity with the windows code base might taint their ability to contribute to various open source programs, or out of fear that looking at the Windows source code might rob you of your ability to write decent code anymore... (Of course, as with any discussion on Slashdot, there were probably about three clowns for each serious post.)

http://slashdot.org/articles/04/02/12/2114228.shtml

Re:If he had hacked Microsoft

[rk]

'I guess the motto here at slashdot is "you must respect people's rights, unless we don't like them." [ Reply to This'

Yes, because every person on slashdot has the exact same opinion on this issue, except for you. You're on to me, I guess. Actually, there's only two users on this whole system: You, and me. All the other accounts are my troll accounts.

Re:If he had hacked Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

No the modle here is it is wrong to sell out to EVIL, and MPAA and RIAA are about as evil as the tobacco loby companies, and the big oil research foundations that claim global warming is a myth.

Re:If he had hacked Microsoft

[localman]

Not really -- see, Slashdot is a group, not a single person. So maybe one half would have cheered the hacking of Microsoft, and then the other half is the one condemning this act. No need for hypocrisy required.

I know, it is complicated facing the diversity of the world and talking to large groups of faceless people, but that's what we have to do these days.

Cheers.

Re:If he had hacked Microsoft

[pizzach]

Argument still stands. Once the punishment starts to get ridiculous, the thought pattern becomes "I feel bad, but his karma sorta had it coming." It's an unconscious part of human nature. :p

I can see how they recruited him

[Jesus_666]

They sat him in front of a notebook where he got a blowjob while someone put a gun against his head and John Travolta counted down from sixty until he caved in to the pressure and used ls /usr/bin to crack the 128-bit encryption securing TorrentSpy's login form.

Hollywood uses that method a lot.

Re:I can see how they recruited him

[Anonymous Coward]

he got a blowjob

That was probably what he traded the other 95% of the payoff for.

Re:I can see how they recruited him

[Anonymous Coward]

That was probably what he traded the other 95% of the payoff for. That makes sense actually.

Mr Anderson only got 15k in the end cos the chick must have demanded everything else.

I'd bet the MPAA promised her Hugh Jackman.

Give him anything he wants...

[merikari]

... just not the red pill.

a rat is a rat anywhere in the world...

[goga_russian]

a rat is a rat anywhere in the world... and we all know what happens to rats. america promotes the culture of 'telling on someone', ratting on your friends to save ur ass, or make money. please dont admire a rat.

Re:a rat is a rat anywhere in the world...

[shark72]

"a rat is a rat anywhere in the world... and we all know what happens to rats. america promotes the culture of 'telling on someone', ratting on your friends to save ur ass, or make money. please dont admire a rat."

Meanwhile TorrentSpy is right up there with Mother Theresa, eh?

This is all wrapped up neatly with a nice pretty bow as long as you don't consider for a second that TorrentSpy is in the very profitable business of helping people get stuff without permission. If you try to explain that TorrentSpy's charter was to provide better access to Linux distros or other material that doesn't infringe on others' rights, then you are lying. They're in the business of piracy, and business is good.

I am outraged!!!

[ThirdPrize]

I haven't read the FA, the summary or even the title of the story but I am outraged. Outraged that something like this could happen somewhere and someone may or may not do something about it.

Re:I am outraged!!!

[trongey]

...Outraged that something like this could happen somewhere and someone may or may not do something about it.

I'm outraged that he did it for 15k. He's really dragging down the market at that price; unless the house was the Playboy Mansion and the car was something with a name that Americans can't pronounce.

what bullshit

[cliffski]

"We would give you a nice paying job, a house, a car, anything you needed.... if you save Hollywood for us you can become rich and powerful"

outside of hollywood movies, nobody talks like this. this is all the ramblings of some deranged kid.

Re:what bullshit

[night_flyer]

I dont know, thats the way hollywood thinks, they dont have a grasp on reality...

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[Dunbal]

Nah, I just rip them and remove the macrovision. Problem solved. They can come and get me (I live in Costa Rica - we still have "fair use").

Blah

[Brix Braxton]

So they offer him a good paying job, a house, a car, anything he wants... Wow, that doesn't sound like a bad movie script.... and what was "anything you want?" to him? $15k...

According to the Article...

[spydabyte]

Someone might want to RTFA:

Looking to profit in other ways, Anderson approached the MPAA with an e-mail offering to help the movie studios' lobbying arm beat piracy [...] Among other things, Anderson proposed to implement an anti-piracy marketing campaign for the MPAA.

But he says he also offered to provide inside information on TorrentSpy

"It was an opportunity to make money, because I knew how these networks operated," he says. So he got pissed because he wasn't making advertising money, and took some illegal information to the MPAA himself.

On June 8, 2005, [...] Anderson says he told Garfield that he had "an informant that can intercept any e-mail communication." Once again, he went to the MPAA...

Anderson didn't tell Garfield he was the "informant," and that he'd already hacked into TorrentSpy's systems. So the MPAA didn't know...

The hacker, then 23 and living in Vancouver, British Columbia, claims he had cracked TorrentSpy's servers by simply guessing an administrative password. Besides my beef with him being called a hacker (instead of cracker), how is this cracking at all?

He knew the password was weak -- a combination of a name and some numbers. [...] "I just kept changing the numbers until it fit," he says. "I guess you can call it luck. It took a little more than 30 tries." Yea, not hacking. Social engineering if anything...

Once inside, he programmed TorrentSpy's mail system to relay e-mail to a newly created external account he could access. There's a trace of pride in his voice as he details the hack. cracking the Gibson baby. If he's so proud to be leaking this information, that's not elite (see the jargon file) C'mon /. work on the misinforming summaries! Starting to sound like FOX

Re:According to the Article...

[Anonymous Coward]

At least I wasn't the only one who read the article. Many more comments than usual are off-base.

Another one is I see people joking how $15,000 is not "a nice paying job, a house, a car, anything you needed". Um, according to the article, "a nice paying job, a house, a car, anything you needed" is what they said they would give him to agree to take the job. $15,000 is what they paid him for what he had done so far, then they blew him off-- presumably they didn't need him anymore. He didn't simply except $15,000 as "a nice paying job, a house, a car, anything you needed", he got suckered.

My two cents.
--Dave Romig, Jr.

And I see I'm not the only one alive anymore that remembers cracking is not hacking-- which is a personal pet peeve of mine.

Re:According to the Article...

[neminem]

Meh. Off-topic, but... while I might be a wannabe-hacker (in the old sense), I'm also a wannabe linguist, and as such, am all too aware that language change is both inevitable and generally beneficial. Thus, if "hacker" means "person who hacks into networks to gain information illegitimately", then that's what it means. Course, that doesn't stop me from using both definitions when appropriate, but if I actually want to be understood, I'll generally refer specifically to "hacker, by the MIT definition", when that's what I mean.

Not surprised...

[shoptroll]

This is a move right out of the RIAA's playbook. Remember a few years ago when the RIAA was recruiting college students to snoop on their peers and report any P2P usage in exchange for cash? Just about the same dirty trick.

That makes the downloaders the "hackers"

[smitth1276]

The definition you quoted above would make the bittorrent users--whose conduct carries the intent to fraudulently obtain an item of value, ie a movie, from the MPAA--the "hackers".

Re:That makes the downloaders the "hackers"

[morgan_greywolf]

Using BitTorrent is not, as defined by the Act, accessing a computer without authority or in excess of authority. You're looking for the No Electronic Theft Act, or maybe the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.

Re:That makes the downloaders the "hackers"

[smitth1276]

I was reading the language that you excerpted in your original comment. According to that language, the downloaders are inarguably the "hackers". Let's not go down the strawman road... I didn't say that using bittorrent was hacking, I said that downloading the movies illegally was hacking, according to the law you yourself quoted.

Re:That makes the downloaders the "hackers"

[smitth1276]

Nevermind, I misread the "protected computer" clause.

Do you still have any friends?

[smitth1276]

Because you don't sound like a very fun person.

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[Technician]

Nah, I just rip them and remove the macrovision.

DVD's don't have Macrovision. They have a Macrovision flag. A legal player adds Macrovision to the player output. Rippers never bothered with the flag and don't have a Macrovision license to use the encoder.

If you paid extra for a ripper that "Removes Macrovision" you got ripped off. You would have to pay extra for a ripper that adds Macrovision.

Joking

[br4nd0nh3at]

it might just be me or the internet sarcasm isn't showing well in some people's posts. I just wanted to add that the $15k was just for the information, however if he went all out they would've given more. If I'm mistaken then they are seriously cheap.

Lynch this fucking rat

[Anonymous Coward]

I say we make an example of this uppity motherfucker. First he sells out to our arch-enemies at the MPAA, then he comes back and brags to us about how much they paid him to rat us out. Somebody get me some fucking dox, now.

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[Opportunist]

Legalized methods, please. Some things are just legal because they protect the interests of certain groups and were thus, often retroactively, legalized just to make sure nobody can sue.

For reference, see AT&T and the current government.

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[Opportunist]

Try telling that the judge the next time you buy that truckload of cigarettes for 2 bucks a box. How were you supposed to know it was stolen?

There are circumstances when you almost have to assume that something has to be stolen because it is either too cheap or the merchandize is usually not available at all (as it usually is the case with certain information).

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[speaker of the truth]

Try telling that the judge the next time you buy that truckload of cigarettes for 2 bucks a box. How were you supposed to know it was stolen? Huh? I say "its not legal to buy stolen property" so I'm guessing you must be saying "its legal to buy stolen property"? If so that makes no sense in the context of your second paragraph.

HACKING IS...

[quonsar]

...what I did when I carved up those teenage hookers hanging in my basement.

Re:HACKING IS...

[Anonymous Coward]

+1 Interesting...

Do as we say, don't do as we do!

[gotan]

It's funny how the MPAA uses just the argument that "they didn't know the information was (obtained) illegaly" that they forbid everyone else who might download a shred of "their" intellectually propertized goodies to use. Plain and simple the MPAA hired Anderson to steal that information and now they leave him hanging.

Well, that's how it works out for anyone doing the dirty work for the MPAA.

There's no such thing as thieves' honor.

Re:Do as we say, don't do as we do!

[Sfing_ter]

Don't forget the judge agreed that it had been obtained legally, of course if someone had obtained the judges emails and information just as "LEGALLY" they would likely be sitting in a cell...

Funny article! Rich + powerful = $15K

[scottsk]

So the MPAA thinks being rich and powerful is worth $15k? I don't blame the guy for sour grapes -- he needs to write a book, and maybe they can make his story into a movie so he can really cash in -- of course, he probably won't make a dime because the movie will be pirates! But the article is really funny because it shows just who the MPAA really are. They promised everything and delivered nothing!

"Anything you want" vs $15,000

[Maxo-Texas]

Typical MPAA/Riaa deal making.

I'm sure his $15million check was cut due to various fees. His final cut was $15,000.

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[Dragonslicer]

You normally won't get in trouble for buying stolen property unless anyone with an IQ higher than a small rock would figure out that it's stolen. If you buy a $2000 television for $1500, a normal person would probably think it was a sale. If you buy a $2000 television from the back of a truck for $50, you probably should have known something wasn't quite right.

"Are you sure it was the same cat?"

[adolf]

From here:

Since July of last year I have basically cut out the mass media from my life. I sold my TV, gave away my DVD player, and donated my CDs and DVDs to a charity auction. For entertainment, I've taken up a number of sports, including basketball and skiing. I also now listen to local bands live at pubs and restaurants, rather than listening to the radio or CDs. I never had any gaming consoles to begin with, and I uninstalled and gave away the few computer games I do have. I do rely on the BBC for news, but even that's become limited these days.

I'm glad I made that decision. All this new crap involving DRM and frivolous from the entertainment industry just goes to show you how full of horseshit they are. I'm very pleased that my money does not go to them. They don't deserve it. Not only that, but now that I play sports rather than just watching them on TV, I've become much more fit and far healthier. Getting away from the mainstream media was one of the best things I've ever done.


Look: Either you're just one person who trolling over and over again, or you're different people who together are in some sort of pervasive neo-Luddite Jehovah's Witness-esque organization, spewing forth senseless propaganda at every opportunity.

In the former case, I'd like to request that you at least try to keep your story consistent, as it makes it more challenging to get to +5. In the latter case, I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Re:"Are you sure it was the same cat?"

[DanielJosphXhan]

I want to believe that there's a vast organisation dedicated to posting variations of this message all over the internet, people who refine their methods as they go, gauge reaction, and adjust the wording. They have a mailing list, a CVS repository with different branches, maybe host real-life meet-ups.

Otherwise, frankly, it's obnoxious. So I'll say this to said secret organisation: create a new "Non-Smug" branch, and work from there. For us. Please.

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm... There is, if you look hard enough.

Obligatory bash.org quote

[Dr_Barnowl]

Couldn't resist...

Lol

[msimm]

That's what I thought. But badminton get a bad wrap. It's the only sport I've ever played where you can strike someone on purpose (spike!). Of course maybe we played with the rules a little loose. Tipping was fun too. Trouble is once you get used to it you're no fun for a lazy day at the park, and your friends don't appreciate welts.

Reporting on people for MPAA?

[Mr.Fork]

Hmmm... collecting private information to identify people without their knoweldge. I do believe MPAA would be breaking the law here in Canada. Let me talk to my security dude - I'm wondering if I could get the entire MPAA board executive but on Canada's TERRORIST watch list? Seeing how they're spying on Canadians violating privacy laws for 'yet-undetermined activities' - wouldn't that be funny...?

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[blackest_k]

interesting links but unfortunately it seems your solution is limited to users of turbolinux and linspire distro's.

clicknrun seems to be able to offer this kind of support as this article shows to other distro's such as ubuntu.

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7474779842.html

unfortunately the date on that article is march 2006 and there seems to have been little progress.

Linspires covenant with Microsoft might be the reason why. Would Ubuntu users using Linspire products on ubuntu be covered by the covenant?

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[jftitan]

I call that crackhead prices. Along with a crackhead warranty. I knew a friend who used to buy 'junk' from his favorite crackhead on a monthly basis. Honestly I made more money off of my 'friend'/acquaintance in fixing the crap than he did in savings of buying the crap. (ok, he got a awesome laptop loaded with spyware/virii/pr0n/etc... everything else sucked)

Crackhead warranty as follows:
1) You buy as is, if it works then your winning the game already
2) Beware of crackhead deliveries, within the week your apartment/house might be broken into. (friend learned)
3) There is no manufacture warranty available (friend learned again)
4) No refunds (Same as rule 1, but sometimes a crackhead will do trade ins)
5) The price you get for said item, can be negotiated
6) Beware, items are most likely stolen. (duh....)

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[stonecypher]

There's nothing legal about buying stolen property

Yes, and if there's one group who has the right to be angry that someone else stole their property, it's TorrentSpy. I'm not standing up for the MPAA, but Jesus, doesn't it bother who you're siding with? I mean, if you've got two parties and the MPAA is the less corrupt of the two...

That bit about "when hypocrites attack?" I'm having a hard time figuring out whether you mean the MPAA, TorrentSpy, or yourself. I'd ask you to clarify, except that I don't actually want for you to do so.

You've never seen German, have you?

[Sycraft-fu]

They have a word for everything. The language likes compound words like no other. One of these situations of "Hmmm, we don't have a word for that, well let's just jam together some existing words that describe it and call it a new word." For example: Suppose we need a form to calculate the additional costs on a transaction. That would be a Zusatzkostenberechnungsschein. If one could transliterate that to English it would be something along the lines of Additionalcostcalculationform.

So sure, they probably have a word for "Catch the thief, he has my knife in his back!" as well :D.

Re:You've never seen German, have you?

[sodul]

Looks like coding in Java (and other languages) where I often see function names that are over 40 chars ... which is pretty much annoying when your company enforce the 80 chars max policy.

At least we get CamelCase while German does not.

- sodul

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[Dunbal]

If you paid extra for a ripper

      No, I have a freeware one. Was not aware that it was just a "bit", thanks for the info. It also rips out the region flag, which is nice :)

Stolen Property

[Nom du Keyboard]

Seems to me that the MPAA is now in possession of stolen property, for which they have knowingly paid money. After all, you can't reasonably defend yourself in court if you were to pay cash to someone who delivered you a car that could have only been stolen in the first place.

The judge dismissing the counter-suit against the MPAA is just one more entry on my list of why I'm really coming to truly hate apparently computer-illiterate federal judges!

Hypocrisy

[sudnshok]

So basically, the MPAA can obtain info illegally through someone else as long as they have a document that SAYS they expect the info to be collected legally while knowing full-well that the info has probably been obtained illegally. After all, if it was obtainable legally, they get the info themselves without paying $15K for it.

So, how come P2P companies can't use the EXACT SAME DEFENSE when they have disclaimers on their sites/apps saying that their products should not be used to illegally transfer content?

There are no life forms lower than hypocrites.

Re:When hypocrites attack...

[Opportunist]

I honestly read that as "illegal". Already happened to me twice in this thread.

I don't know why, but recently it gets harder for me to see the difference between "legal" and "illegal". Not only in writing.

No.

[LWATCDR]

"Selling your soul is one thing, but selling it cheap is unconscionable." No selling your soul is always unconscionable.

It benefits a man, not to sell his soul for the whole world... But for Wales?
I am not a fan of piracy I do feel it is wrong. But this is just ickkyy.

netenforcers...

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a company in Gainesville, FL whose sole purpose is to track copyrighted material on the internet. Basically, they watch torrent tracker sites and (I assume), try to gain access to warez sites and such.

http://www.netenforcers.com/index.cfm

Well Said!

[coolGuyZak]

And while we're at it, Linux is an operating system.

*ducks*

Whitfield Diffie on "hacking"

[shyberfoptik]

Learn your history from someone who was there, because you're the one who looks like the "clueless dweeb."

"I'm a primary witness - I was part of that scene." says Whitfield Diffie, adding:

"And, I always thought that the use of hacking to describe malicious computer activity, was in some sense, legitimate, since the word 'hacking' at MIT also described doing less savory things, often, to people. I never found the dual-use terrible distressing." Diffie offers the following history:

"When I arrived at MIT in 1961, the term 'hacking' meant two things: one, was not to be working [...] the other thing was to play a trick of some kind, it need not be on somebody. [...] these two terms exist for 'hack.' One of which means to be doing, you know, you find something to do other than study Physics because, you know, too hard to study for the exam. One of the big things that appeared, of course, in the 1950s, there began to be computers around. And, some people fell in love with them. [...] The sense in which programming was hacking, it was not that the word 'hacking' is in any way restricted to programming, it was that many people did their hacking, that is, their not working on what the syllabus said they were going to be examined on, in the form of, particularly, going to the TX-0 and the PDP-1 [...] or going to work on the [NX] at the Model Railroad Club [...] hacking [programming] fell very naturally within the existing use of the MIT term, 'hacking.'" Listen from 1:00:00 to 1:03:30 of this interview: http://chaosradio.ccc.de/cri008.html

Sounds like a good hollywood movie..

[Anonymous Coward]

GET ON IT

Benefit of the doubt...

[rtechie]

The part that I found most interesting was this...

"But U.S. District Judge Florence-Marie Cooper in Los Angeles dismissed Bunnell's lawsuit Aug. 21 on the grounds that Anderson's intrusion did not violate the federal wiretapping statute. ... the court took note of the contract language between the MPAA and Anderson that represented any data from Anderson as being lawfully obtained."

This illustrates how the courts give the benefit of the doubt in disputes to big corporations. What business or individual is stupid enough to write the details of their illegal dealings down in their contracts? If a drug dealer wrote a contract saying that a loan was for another purpose but an informant testified that it was really for drugs, would HE get the benefit of the doubt?

Historical precedent.

[whoever57]

"Get this project finished to everyones satisfaction and I don't care how you do it"

"Who will rid me of this troublesome priest?"

That's pretty generous

[Rix]

The last guy only got 20 silver pieces, and he had to kiss a dude.

Or no negotiation skills

[spagetti_code]

Actually they used pretty standard negotiating tactics for the 15k.
I'm in a software company and involved in negotiations, and I see that type of
positioning all the time. Such as:

"This stuff is worth 100,000, but if you sell it to us for
25,000 then we promise there'll be lots more business coming your way.
It'll be *huge* . Honest."

My bet is they would have paid 100k or more for the gold he could provide,
but they convinced him that there was a big future and got a great discount.

Oh for a transparent society...

[Anonymous Coward]

... then we could all see each other as we truely are.

Why does this kind of statement

[wokithub]

always cause the "OMG! you are a smug bastard" response?

The second someone dares to admit that they might rather do something other than rot their brains with TV they automatically become smug, boring, outcasts.

I don't particularly care for TV either, and I wouldn't watch any if my wife didn't have the damn thing on all the time.

Honestly, can't anyone just respect another persons choice NOT to watch TV without typecasting them as elitist?

If not, I think you're missing the latest episode of "Flavor of love"...

Re:Why does this kind of statement

[Anonymous Coward]

People are responding to the tone in which the parent message was writen. The other AC obviously thinks he is better than those that do enjoy mass media. People don't typically like being put down. So they respond in kind. Not to hard to understand really...

Old News

[skeletonliar]

Robert Anderson has been known to be an asshole for some time now. Take a look at this years-old quote from bash.org:

<AgentSmith> It seems you have been leading two lives, Mr. Anderson. In one life, you are Robert Anderson, assistant cook at a Jack in the Box in Mesquite....in the other...you go by the chat alias "Randerson"...spreading homosexual propoganda, lying, and being a generally immature pest...
<AgentSmith> One of these...has a future.
<Randerson> LMAO OMFG where's the phone, I have to tell Dean about this
<AgentSmith> How can you use the phone when you cannot...speak?
*** AgentSmith sets mode: +m

Gaa!

[Romicron]

Actually, multiple personality disorder is a form of schizophrenia. So, people who say that those with multiple personality disorder have schizophrenia, they're not wrong, just inexact.

No, no, no, no, no! Good Lord, NO!

Please. Nothing against you, but every time I hear the words "MPD" and "Schizophrenia" in the same sentence, I cringe. Disclaimer: IANAP (I am not a psychiatrist).

Understanding Dissociative Disorders (Multiple Personality Disorder is an outdated term.)
DID's Wiki Page

Diagnostic Information for Schizophrenia
Schizophrenia's Wiki Page

Please take the time to read at least enough to see the differences between the two. It's a common misconception, but it IS a misconception. The two are in separate categories under the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria (DID being 300.14, Schizophrenia being 295.x, there are different types). "MPD" (Dissociative Identity Disorder) is NOT schizophrenia, nor a form of it. They are distinct.

Back on topic... You'd think that they'd find some poor hacker kid with a bunch of their ripped merchandise on his drive and blackmail him or her into doing their bidding, and then hold a lawsuit / charges over their head unless they comply. They save 15K less the cost of the generic white van and black-clothed goons to pick him up.

Re:Gaa!

[Independent Voter]

Keeping in mind that Wikipedia is not a medical reference book, and that I am not saying that schizophrenia and Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) are synonymous, but that DID is a particular kind of schizophrenia, here is how Wikipedia defines "schizophrenia": "a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental illness characterized by impairments in the perception or expression of reality, most commonly manifesting as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions or disorganized speech and thinking in the context of significant social or occupational dysfunction." Let's parse this a bit to see if DID fits this definition: "characterized by impairments in the perception or expression of reality" - How is thinking one is actually two or more different people and not remembering one or more of these identities or what one did while assuming one or more of these identities not such an impairment? "paranoid or bizarre delusions" - How is thinking one is actually two or more different people not a bizarre delusion? And, how could thinking one was two or more dfferent people with different names not result in "significant social or occupational dysfunction"? Sorry, but it seems to fit the definition to me. Also, in the Wikipedia article on "Dissociative Identity Disorder" (the actual correct term for multiple personality disorder), note this reference: "Bliss EL (1980). "Multiple personalities. A report of 14 cases with implications for Schizophrenia and hysteria". Arch. Gen. Psychiatry 37 (12): 1388-97" Note that I also am not a psychiatrist. Nor do I play one on TV. Except when my name is Sybil...

Not criminals

[Rix]

Copyright violation is a *civil*, not criminal matter.

The pace has changed

[Rix]

I'm assuming you're referring to "googling".

Things just happen faster then they did 40 years ago.

Re:The pace has changed

[stonecypher]

That's funny - people in academia disagree. You'll excuse me if I don't take the word of a random slashdotter over a college education, I trust.

Re:The pace has changed

[gsslay]

People in academia do not own the language. They merely document it. That's descriptive rather than proscriptive linguistics, as my university English Language lecturer would have it (now that, apparently, we're comparing educations).

I used the Oxford Dictionary link merely because it was one of the first I googled. (You see what I did there?! Someone call the linguistic police!).

Re:The pace has changed

[stonecypher]

People in academia do not own the language.

True. However, they know a lot more about it than you do.

That's descriptive rather than proscriptive linguistics

Oh, please, don't throw your wikipedia muscles at me. I'm not David Hume and this isn't 1983. I'm not trying to invoke either descriptive or proscriptive linguistics. I'm just pointing out that you don't know what the hell you're talking about, and that you're using the internet to fill in data so that you can try to make it appear that that is not so. It turns out that both descriptive and proscriptive linguists think the recent behavior of the OED is shameful. They have allowed a lust for profit take down their crap filters. That's not descriptive linguistics, it's poor taste. Get off of geocities and read a book. That's not what descriptive linguistics is.

I used the Oxford Dictionary link merely because it was one of the first I googled.

Yeah, that's my point. Twenty years ago, you wouldn't be pretending to know this stuff, because you wouldn't be able to fall back on google to cobble together things that were close enough to accurate to fool someone with your deep education on the matter. I hope the dripping sarcasm doesn't leave a stain on the floor.

Long and short of it: if you can't argue it without Google, you also can't argue it with Google - whether you know that or not seems to be entirely a different matter.

(You see what I did there?! Someone call the linguistic police!)

Would that there were such a people, that you might be tossed in the hoosegow for a few weeks for hyperbole without comprehension. This world would be a lot better if, next to the drunk tank, there was a self important buffoon who doesn't know when to quit making an ass out of himself tank.

Re:The pace has changed

[gsslay]

I'm just pointing out that you don't know what the hell you're talking about, and that you're using the internet to fill in data so that you can try to make it appear that that is not so. Hmm. I'm not sure why you're bothering, since you seem convinced you're arguing with Wikipedia and Google combined, rather than discussing something with a real live person. You must find internet communications very frustrating and impersonal. Though not, I warrant, as frustrating as others find communicating with you.

Yeah, that's my point. Twenty years ago, you wouldn't be pretending to know this stuff FYI, twenty years ago I was probably sitting in a lecture theatre learning this stuff.

My link to OED was what you'd call a convenient reference. I wasn't obtaining my information from it, and Google was just a convenient way of finding a suitable URL to quote. I suppose I could have given you entry, page number and column of an appropriate dictionary that meets your approval, but frankly I doubt I could have been bothered. You may be amazed to hear it, but I don't require the go ahead from any dictionary before I write something. You can continue to insist that your definition is the only acceptable one, but don't be too disappointed when the language leaves you behind. Pesky things languages, they just won't be pinned down by anyone.

But no matter. Experience has taught me there's no point to arguing with crazies on the internet. So I'll leave you to pen a letter of protest to the OED instead. Maybe they'll be happy to play with you.

Oh, and by the way, you don't "throw" muscles, you flex them. And do people really still use geocities? You need to update your cultural references by about 10 years.

Really

[Rix]

People in academia generally make citations.

Re:Really

[stonecypher]

by Rix (54095) Alter Relationship on Tuesday October 23, @12:46AM (#21081367)
I'm assuming you're referring to "googling".
 
Things just happen faster then they did 40 years ago.

People in academia generally make citations.

To hold others to a standard you yourself do not achieve. What's the word for that again? Ends in "crite," sounds like "hippocrates..." (cough) If I were much worried about opinions in this thread, I probably would go look up evidence. However, given the discussion at hand, I very much doubt they'd actually get read, and so I don't really feel like wasting my time. As soon as any of you shows a level of comprehension that indicates actual study, I'll be happy to go looking. But, for now, I just don't believe that standard has been achieved. I'm sure you'll rant and rail about that too, in the desperation to avoid what I actually said in favor of some random bit on which to hang your hat.

It's times like this I wish I could calc sarchasm on SlashDot. (No, it's not a misspelling, it's an inside joke. Yes, I know, if it meant what you thought it meant, there wouldn't be an 'H' there. Don't get distracted.)

In other words...

[Rix]

Your ego's written a cheque you can't clear.

Re:Promises, promises (clarification)

[KudyardRipling]

WARNING! Five unavoidable profanities are used in the post: right, wrong, conscience, guilt, consequences.

My concern is that in the process of achieving certain goals that one sets for oneself, that person's sense of right and wrong becomes dulled. Once having achieved, he/she considers the consequences of his/her actions in the social/economic/political/legal realm. When one's conscience demands that one act in a manner detrimental to one's position in society, guilt leaps into existence and stress is created. That person will turn to various therapies to relieve this condition. It could be chemical (alchohol and drugs), conversational (psychology/psychiatry), physical activities (sex, exercise), social activities (partying, dating), etc. rather than do the right thing and endure the consequences.

If enough people (think: undefeatable voting block) are in this position, no action can occur and the government presiding thereover will do as it pleases, since it sees the enough people are satisfied with their lives and too few people who are willing to challenge the status quo or the course.

2+2!=4 Open minded.
2+2=4 Bigot.