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I like to have my email, newsgroups, and browser running at all time.

Also, Prefbar only seems to work with Mozilla. :(

Interesting article. I respect very much Joel's opinions on most issues whenever he posts a new article, and this one in particular raises very valid points, however, this article's main line of reasoning starts by judging Netscape's decision to rewrite its code from version 4.x to 6.x, something that doesn't fall in the category of things that can be simply described as the software authors' desire to "throw it out and start over" because "It's a big hairy mess".

Mozilla's history is an interesting and revolted one, especially when it was released as an "open source" project (ie. version 5). Sure, Mozilla's developers felt it was a "big hairy mess" by then, but their decision to start from scratch was mainly deployed for a very diferrent issue, and from most people's point of view, it was the best decision they could've ever take. Granted, maybe Netscape (the company) is not the best `success story' ever, but that's related to another number of reasons, and when you focus on the issue of developing the best web browser possible, Netscape's developers decision back then was the single most important step to make Mozilla the greatest codebase for a web browser ever.

For a bit of Mozilla's history and the reasoning behind the Netscape 4.x -> 5.x you can read a few fragments from the book "Creating Applications with Mozilla":

http://books.mozdev.org/html/mozilla-pref.html
http://books.mozdev.org/html/mozilla-chp-1.html

Interesting article. I respect very much Joel's opinions on most issues whenever he posts a new article, and this one in particular raises very valid points, however, this article's main line of reasoning starts by judging Netscape's decision to rewrite its code from version 4.x to 6.x, something that doesn't fall in the category of things that can be simply described as the software authors' desire to "throw it out and start over" because "It's a big hairy mess".

Mozilla's history is an interesting and revolted one, especially when it was released as an "open source" project (ie. version 5). Sure, Mozilla's developers felt it was a "big hairy mess" by then, but their decision to start from scratch was mainly deployed for a very diferrent issue, and from most people's point of view, it was the best decision they could've ever take. Granted, maybe Netscape (the company) is not the best `success story' ever, but that's related to another number of reasons, and when you focus on the issue of developing the best web browser possible, Netscape's developers decision back then was the single most important step to make Mozilla the greatest codebase for a web browser ever.

For a bit of Mozilla's history and the reasoning behind the Netscape 4.x -> 5.x you can read a few fragments from the book "Creating Applications with Mozilla":

http://books.mozdev.org/html/mozilla-pref.html
http://books.mozdev.org/html/mozilla-chp-1.html

This patent is a carte blanche for Eolas to sue pretty much anyone they choose. I don't see how Mozilla's plugins, and extensions are any different from what they are suing Microsoft over.

Someone please correct me, I sure hope I'm wrong.

It causes me great pain to be on the side of Microsoft in this issue. Damn you Eolas.

Actually, this screenshot shows it's much more then that. Also, here's one project, MozStreamer is another good example of the flexibility offered.

For you KDE users who aren't on Konqueror 24/7: don't forget to say thank-you.

Since this whole thing is happening, Microsoft had better hurry up with service pack 2, which sets "NO" as the default action for accepting verisign certificates.

For all the poor folks working in tech support (sympathy excluded for those in India), expect endless calls and irate customers complaining about spyware once those greedy bastards figure out to take advantage of this. The least Mr. Gates could do about this is release part of the patch that makes "NO" the default option for installing crap, as well as a few other features, part of a mandatory Windows update.

Until then, you could always get or recommend to loved ones Mozilla Firebird for Wintel machines.

If you're using Moz. Firebird, download the user agent toolbar. If you're on Safari, read this. Then you can masquerade as a Windows user.

It is also easier to allow popups from specific sites in Mozilla. Throw in the Flash Click To View extension and you've eliminated a great deal of the annoying crap that comes along with surfing the web.

My favourite pop-up blocker with Mozilla, with Opera a close second. I'd go with Opera if it weren't for Adblock from Mozdev.org.

My favourite pop-up blocker with Mozilla, with Opera a close second. I'd go with Opera if it weren't for Adblock from Mozdev.org.

Get an open source version of the google toolbar for Mozilla/Firebird here - spyware not included!

here

Damn, I can't spell. I should have used mozex to edit the textbox with emacs and ran a spell checker.

1) The keyboard focus bug in Moz REALLY annoys me. I hate having to click on the tab window to get focus back all the time.

2 & 3) Automatically restoring the last tabgroup session on startup is a must-have.

4) Opera (as of 7.23) sort of has this go-to-top bug too, but it only happens when you're scrolled to the very bottom of the page when you go back/forward.

One more pet peeve I'd add is that Moz mouse gestures STILL doesn't handle the right mouse button correctly. You have to recompile Mozilla with a custom patch in order to get rid of the context-menu interference problem. I'm addicted to the mouse-rocker (that works in Opera) for back/forward navigation.

--

Here ya go. Should work until they add that to Moz, I notice it's on their "to do" list. :)

If you're having problems with that, use a different popup blocker. Some tools can be configured to still load popups and blocked images, but not display them on your end. To the server, there is no way to tell the difference.

Here is a mozdev project designed to do just that.

Use a Mozilla with the Adblock-plugin

Wish granted.

I was just thinking if people would notice and if they did see something new, what to say so they would not realize that they were using a new browser

Sure I would want Mozilla to get the credit, I was just thinking out loud.

I have found that a good way to show off Mozilla is to use some of the XUL applications. Joe and Jane are really impressed when you play Solitaire in your browser.

I bet if you included the IE theme less than 25% would ever notice.

The Extras like Tabbed Browsing and Pop-up blocking would just be normal MicroSoft Innovations TM

Ok, so forgive me for saying so.. but instead of fighting fire with fire, doesn't anyone think that perhaps AOL should refrain from branding their bundled version of netscape? It seems to me that the only way to truly get more customers/computer users interested in using a product is to offer non-branded, fully functional applications and utilities?

It seems to me that more and more people are searching for alternatives to Microsoft's Internet Explorer. This is mostly users who browse with GUIs under linux, and people who use browsers like Mozilla and Mozilla Firebird. We will always miss the days of Phoenix, and browsers that offered interfaces that had neat bells and whistles that are built on every year.. but let's not forget where they came from..

I think one of the only reasons that most people even still use Internet Explorer or Netscape Navigator, is because it's the familiarity and reliability that it's going to be there. Not only that, but with IE being integrated the way it is with Windows, it generally works faster, regardless of the number of errors. Additionally, the plug-ins for javascript and flash are built in, and easier to install and maintain than in other 'advanced' browsers.

I think the smart thing is this.. find out from the consumer what they'd like to see in their browser menubar. If they say they like the AOL brand, keep it.. but I am relatively certain that the majority of users will agree having an option would be best.. give the user a menu option to determine what icon they're going to be looking at for the next 10 hours while they surf through site after site.

Just my US$0.02. ~nahemah~

why isnt this installer the most prominent thing on Mozilla's frontpage ? does anyone even understand marketing at Mozilla and the skill level of the average win32 user ?

"hey lets give the general public compressed zipfiles and let them figure it out and where to install it"

if developers want mozilla/phoenix to be popular they gotta make it really really easy to get installed by the average joe, they dont even know what a "zip" file is let alone extract and install it,create shortcuts etc etc they just want it easy

they could add an installer for Linux too so i can download a package, doubleclick it and it installed, no tar gz extracting and compiling so i have to have 5 copies of it over my drive just to install it

i know mozilla's developers are clever with code but when it comes to marketing and joe user usability it seems they even lack common sense

why isnt this installer the most prominent thing on Mozilla's frontpage ? does anyone even understand marketing at Mozilla and the skill level of the average win32 user ?

"hey lets give the general public compressed zipfiles and let them figure it out and where to install it"

if developers want mozilla/phoenix to be popular they gotta make it really really easy to get installed by the average joe, they dont even know what a "zip" file is let alone extract and install it,create shortcuts etc etc they just want it easy

they could add an installer for Linux too so i can download a package, doubleclick it and it installed, no tar gz extracting and compiling so i have to have 5 copies of it over my drive just to install it

i know mozilla's developers are clever with code but when it comes to marketing and joe user usability it seems they even lack common sense

At least I've been having more success pushing alternatives to MS when scary MS articles come out.

I find giving people the link (or installing it myself) to the Firebird installer and showing them how multiple homepages, pop-up blocking, and tabs work usually wows them.

I'd much rather field some tech support questions about Moz than deal with a frantic relative or friend telling me how all the money in their bank account was stolen by "internet theives."

Paypal et al should be pushing for more secure browsers on their site. I don't see how this could be a business conflict with MS. Paypal has a lot to gain by simply suggesting there are more secure browsers out there.

I just can't use IE or Safari anymore. With addons like AdBlock, BannerBlock and MPlayer plugin there is no need for any other browser.

Add in a few nifty settings (force tabs to open in the background, and middle click opens in a new tab) a great mod and a daily reading list and the amount one can quickly & effeciently surf is truly astounding.

Could this release be the reason why I can't download themer for firebird?

By the way is it just my set-up or does the new firebird(nightly, yes I know it's a nightly) download manager keep cutting out midway through a download, claiming it has in fact finsihed the download?

Mutt comes close, but doesn't have the ability to "opportunistically encrypt" messages

http://enigmail.mozdev.org/help.html

From the options help:"Encrypt+sign if possible: encrypt and sign by default, but do not notify user on failure, and send unencrypted instead. Encryption must succeed for all recipients, not just some. (This option may also be set in the preferences."

Um, is this the kind of thing you're looking for? Works well for me.

Why do that when you can show them Firebird instead?

Firebird (and thunderbird) both run natively from their home directories as well. Unzip and run the .EXE. Or just run the .exe. Whatever.

Firebird + Linky + Magpie + "only show images from originating server" for fewer banner ads + no stupid flash plugin. A damned near perfect browsing experience.

Grab an install of Multizilla and use the Browser Spoofing utility for those sites that reject on user agent. Works fine for me, even for such tasks as banking online...

Ahh, you mean mozex surely. The main problem with mozex is that the "source" you see is not the same as the source you see in the standard editor. I believe Mozilla sometimes radically alters incoming HTML - converting it into a format it prefers for rendering purposes.

The author of mozex says:
Mozex is a very ugly hack, in the most negative sense of the word. Its functions should be included in Mozilla/Firebird. Mozex is not intended to become a "standard" tool and it definitely should go away as soon as possible.

Please bug the developers of Mozilla to provide sane, documented and complex support for external programs as a part of Mozilla/Firebird.

Ahh, you mean mozex surely. The main problem with mozex is that the "source" you see is not the same as the source you see in the standard editor. I believe Mozilla sometimes radically alters incoming HTML - converting it into a format it prefers for rendering purposes.

The author of mozex says:
Mozex is a very ugly hack, in the most negative sense of the word. Its functions should be included in Mozilla/Firebird. Mozex is not intended to become a "standard" tool and it definitely should go away as soon as possible.

Please bug the developers of Mozilla to provide sane, documented and complex support for external programs as a part of Mozilla/Firebird.

Flash Click-to-View helps get rid of those stupid blinking flash ads. These are the ones that get around most ad-blocking software. Combine this with adblock and you have a very effective combination that gets rid of almost every ad out there with minimal configuration (just add the offending domains or some keywords to adblock's list, like "*.doubleclick.*" "*.atdmt.*" "*.x10*" "*ads.*", you get the idea).

Flash Click-to-View helps get rid of those stupid blinking flash ads. These are the ones that get around most ad-blocking software. Combine this with adblock and you have a very effective combination that gets rid of almost every ad out there with minimal configuration (just add the offending domains or some keywords to adblock's list, like "*.doubleclick.*" "*.atdmt.*" "*.x10*" "*ads.*", you get the idea).

Actually... Mozilla's gestures *are* implemented in javascript. Download the Optimoz MozGest .xpi file (or find it on your hard drive), open the .xpi file in winzip, and there's all the .js implementation for it.

I'm all for the idea of faster, better, stronger ways of browsing. I happen to think that mouse gestures and browser level code should be based in the browser, and controlled by the browser. Like look at all the gestures you get with Mozilla.

(mo: Don't invent the wheel: we have it already)

The problem I forsee with the jscript use, is a misuse of the mouse gesture jscripts by unethical sites. Because it's the planet Earth, and The Internet, half of the sites will impliment this correctly, the other half will use it as a joke, or for annoying adverts (browser interstitials) and thus cause the whole thing to be crap.

If it's at a browser level, websites can't fuck with it. So ideally, browsers will want to add the ability to block javascript mouse control, and promptly add this cool feature at a browswer level. I'm all for the idea of mousegestures, but I'm against the ability to tell a website to fuck off using them. (mo: KISS).

The story links to the printer version of the article, but the regular version is available as well (since it's narrowed, it may be easier to read if you run your browser maximized). And, with the right extensions, you won't see ads anyway, thanks to AdBlock (removes ads based on regexes) and BannerBlind (removes ads based on their dimensions).

The story links to the printer version of the article, but the regular version is available as well (since it's narrowed, it may be easier to read if you run your browser maximized). And, with the right extensions, you won't see ads anyway, thanks to AdBlock (removes ads based on regexes) and BannerBlind (removes ads based on their dimensions).

If the site isn't conforming to the specifications that Mozilla claims to support, then yes it is fine. But more often than not Mozilla failing to work is due to some crappy server side client dection script that doesn't know what to do with Mozilla and so it just sends the equivilant of, "go away, we don't want your kind around here." My normal response is "fine, then I will take my business where I am apreciated".

Have you tried the user agent extensions at Mozdev?

Just a suggestion, but if you're using the Windows platform, the Firebird installer cleared up the last of my weird glitches.

Good luck. New SBEmail this week. Made me happy. : )

Obviously they didn't ask anyone who has switched from Internet Explorer to Mozilla.

* Tabbed Browsing
* Popup Blocking
* Free Ad-blocking plugin
* Email/Newsgroups included
* IRC included
* Free Calendar and Task List Addon available
* Available not only on Windows, but also on Linux, FreeBSD, Mac OSX, Solaris, BeOS, OS/2, and probably more

Mozilla is vastly superior to IE no matter how you compare it.

And that is only one example of how free software can kick MS's ass.

the googlebar plugin for mozilla is almost as good as the google one.

http://googlebar.mozdev.org

runs on most platforms...

There is for Mozilla and Firebird, but since Galeon is non-XUL, it won't work. I don't know what if any API Galeon provides for adding toolbars of any kind. Ditto for Epiphany.

> Does it do active X yet?

No, it doesn't. However, there is a plugin which allows you to open the current page (or a link) in Internet Explorer, from the right-click context menu. So you could easily switch to Firebird for your primary browser, and still view your company's ActiveX pages without any significant extra effort.

It should work for you normal mozilla users as well

Jakob Nielsen wrote a nice article about why advertising doesn't work on the web in September of 1997. It's still true. The web isn't TV. People aren't passively watching the screen. They are actively reading and searching for information (or amusement). Anything that slows that process down will be at least ignored, if not actively blocked. As evidence, take a look at long term ad banner click through rates. They fall by a factor of 2 about every 18 months.

I personally use the Adblock plug-in for Mozilla and Mozilla Firebird. Before Adblock I used to leave Flash uninstalled so I wouldn't be distracted by blinking flashing ads. Now I just don't see them, and in fact, don't even download them.

James

Argh! Flashblock has hidden itself! Try Click to view Flash instead.