Evolution 1.5 has Been Released

Yay! by fewnorms · 2003-12-09 03:13 · Score: 1

Evolution is my favourite tool, or my worst nightmare, as I read email from clients with it :) Good job guys, another OS project well on it's way!

--
Veni, Vidi, Velcro!

Re:Yay! by eyeye · 2003-12-09 06:50 · Score: 1

Can you drag emails to the calendar where it will make an appointment automatically?

Lack of that feature was really annoying last time I used evolution (admittedly a long time ago!).

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Bush and Blair ate my sig!
Re:Yay! by JW+Troll · 2003-12-09 09:16 · Score: 0, Troll

yeah, wake me up when it's on Win32. Yawn.

--
just like the humble blood clot... turboporsche@telus.net
Re:Yay! by spectre_240sx · 2003-12-09 09:39 · Score: 1

Agreed, I've been quite interested in evolution, but I'm still not quite ready to switch to linux yet. Would it really be that hard to port it?
Re:Yay! by JW+Troll · 2003-12-09 10:33 · Score: 1

the sad thing is, it's really the only incentive to switch to Linux from my perspective.. the only thing I don't have on Windows is a good email client. i've tried Eudora, OE, Outlook (all versions) and MozillaMail, Thunderbird. Heck even Foxmail. They all suck. I really do wish somebody would take the time to port Evo to the platform of the common man.

--
just like the humble blood clot... turboporsche@telus.net

Coming up real good. by Shivaji+Maharaj · 2003-12-09 03:14 · Score: 2, Informative

I have been trying the beta stuff on gentoo and works pretty fine. Good work.. keep it up.!!

--
We do not have a history of profitable operations. Our future SCOsource licensing revenue is uncertain.

Re:Coming up real good. by x-router · 2003-12-09 03:46 · Score: 1

It was great under gentoo until I tried to use 2 IMAP accounts from work to my home machine via BB. Works fine in mozilla and other mail tools but was lagged to hell under Evo.
It's a good tool but there are some serious issues with the way it manages IMAP.

Dinner by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:15 · Score: 5, Funny

Screenshot 2

If you need a PIM to remind you to eat dinner, you have serious issues.

Re:Dinner by Flabby+Boohoo · 2003-12-09 03:27 · Score: 4, Funny

True... how about a reminder to take a shower instead?
Re:Dinner by Kircle · 2003-12-09 03:29 · Score: 0, Offtopic

And, apparently, he only plans to eat lunch on the 7th, 8th, and 9th. Must be on a diet.

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-- Kircle
Re:Dinner by Lemmeoutada+Collecti · 2003-12-09 03:33 · Score: 1

Nah, those are the days he plans to have dinner with his mistress. Of course, he won't put that in the planner in case wifey peeks over his shoulder, then he can worm out bay saying he was setting aside time to spend with her... followed by a few hushed phone calls to reschedule his other dates.

--

You can have it fast, accurate, or pretty. Pick any 2.
Re:Dinner by TechnoVooDooDaddy · 2003-12-09 03:42 · Score: 4, Interesting

around my company, if you don't put lunch & dinner on your calendar and mark it "private appointment" chances are good some schmuck will try and schedule a meeting or a conference call or something during that time...
Re:Dinner by boinger · 2003-12-09 03:42 · Score: 4, Interesting

I have serious issues, then.
My company, the godsend that it is, buys food for any employee who wants it, but the order can be in no later than 5:20p. (We get to order off or an actual menu from an actual restaurant)
So, I have a Calendar alert pop up daily at 4:55p, or I'd miss out (very often, in fact). I don't get hungry until 6:00p or so, so I have to visually remind myself to order if I *think* I'll still be here at 6:30p (when the food arrives)
I know it was meant as funny, but it is useful for people like me who can forget to pee for 6 hours because their brain is 'on a roll' with soemthing.

--
Send your friends messages of love at fuck-you.org
Re:Dinner by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 04:39 · Score: 0

Yeah, I forget to shit sometimes when I'm working on a particularly engaging engineering problem.

You are such a leet hax0r!!!!!!!
Re:Dinner by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 04:42 · Score: 0

I just do it in my chair.
Re:Dinner by Tim+C · 2003-12-09 04:49 · Score: 2, Interesting

And in my company, where we're *required* to put lunch in our calendar if we're planning on not being at our desks for it, some schmuck will *still* schedule a meeting during that time.

--
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Re:Dinner by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 04:54 · Score: 0

you sound like you're talking from experience?
Re:Dinner by deadlinegrunt · 2003-12-09 05:04 · Score: 3, Funny

Nah, those are the days he plans to have dinner with his mistress. Of course, he won't put that in the planner in case wifey peeks over his shoulder...

Or perhaps there is bigger plan at play here to make his wife think he is with his mistress and his mistress think he his with his wife therefore leaving even more time for coding!

--
BSD is designed. Linux is grown. C++ libs
Re:Dinner by banzai75 · 2003-12-09 05:42 · Score: 2, Funny

That's why I found that 8-hour lunch breaks work the best for me.
Re:Dinner by MicroBerto · 2003-12-09 06:04 · Score: 1

Don't forget to pee, and furthermore, don't forget to poop. Why? Read this article on Kuro5hin.org
Very interesting, a bit funny, but most of all, very informative:

Also, listen to your body. If your bowels send an email with the following words in the subject line: "Gotta poo, Daddy" then don't reply: "Wait, I've just got to finish this last few lines of copy" or whatever else that's preventing you from going when your body tells you to.

Enjoy! (PS: I finally made a new bertoline comic in my sig... hahaa)

--
Berto
Re:Dinner by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 08:36 · Score: 0

Ofcourse, I need a PIM to remind me to have dinner, if it's with different women on different nights ;)
Re:Dinner by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 19:05 · Score: 0

oh boo hoo, i thought this was a bit funny. understandable if no one mods it up, but i wouldn't call it offtopic.

kircle

Java Desktop by gbjbaanb · 2003-12-09 03:15 · Score: 2, Interesting

You'd think Sun'd sponsor them a little wouldn't you? What they're doing helps Sun's push for their desktop one hell of a lot.

Re:Java Desktop by Delirium+Tremens · 2003-12-09 03:27 · Score: 2, Informative

I believe Sun has been adding friendly cut-and-paste to their own Evolution version. Let's see if Ximian wants to integrate those changes back into the main product.
Re:Java Desktop by racer7890 · 2003-12-09 04:01 · Score: 2, Funny

Well Sun's Java Desktop is based on SuSE Linux, SuSE will shortly be owned by Novell, Novell owns Ximian, Ximian created Evolution. Therefore Sun is supporting Evolution. :)
Re:Java Desktop by Mark+Gordon · 2003-12-09 04:04 · Score: 1

Sun has several developers actively contributing to Evolution.
Re:Java Desktop by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 06:49 · Score: 0

Gordon! Get your ass back into camp now, asswipe! On the double!

As an Evolution user for about a year... by tcopeland · 2003-12-09 03:15 · Score: 2, Informative

....I must say, woo-hoo! Evolution is great stuff; it truly is an Outlook killer.

Also, here's a duplicate code report, thanks to CPD. I like the comment on the first duplicate code chunk:

/* sigh, so much for oo code reuse ... */ /* FIXME: put in a function */

Heh.

--
The Army reading list

Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by Kyouryuu · 2003-12-09 03:20 · Score: 1

Indeed. Being a hybrid Windows and Linux user, I must say that Evolution is one Linux program I'm envious Linux has and Windows doesn't. The next Mozilla Mail would benefit from following their approach, imho.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by the-matt-mobile · 2003-12-09 03:21 · Score: 4, Insightful

it truly is an Outlook killer

I'm not trying to troll here, as I think Evolution is a wonderful product... but I'd just like to dispute your claim on one of the finer points - nothing will be an "Outlook Killer" until it runs everywhere that Outlook runs (ie: Windows).
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by tcopeland · 2003-12-09 03:26 · Score: 1

> nothing will be an "Outlook Killer" until
> it runs everywhere that Outlook runs
> (ie: Windows).

Good point, you're right. I guess I meant that in the context of things that prevent moving from Win32 to Linux. Maybe "excuses not to migrate-killer" would be a better term.

--
The Army reading list
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by Hecubas · 2003-12-09 03:36 · Score: 1

Now if we could just find something to kill Lotus Notes! Something lightweight, with a well designed GUI that is intuitive. We need a replacement that doesn't require a special certification to develope for, it needs to be open.

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Hecubas
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by SubtleNuance · 2003-12-09 03:40 · Score: 3, Interesting

Evolution will (shortly) be a very capable PIM. With an OS backend of somekind for scheduling, will cover 95% of the "outlook" users needs. But, Outlook does something that no GNU/Linux PIM does yet these form things.
Now, Im not trying to say "outlook r0x0r2 and evolution 6r00l2" or somesuch, so please ease up on the "M$ shill" retorts (and the 'outlook is insecure' w/ vb" stuff as well.

What you can do is send forms, with send a form to a user like an email -- the 'form' appears in their inbox). This form, can do whatever you'd like. You can build work-chain dependant systems with them.

Now, I imagine you can do similar via HTML forms and a Apache backend, but ive used these outlook forms before to enable some 'officialdom' instead of attached emails and forms.... and they worked pretty nice. (i built a simple form that made 'offical' communication between two departments and tracked the sending/recieving and reaction -- pretty simple) its pretty interesting.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by 4of12 · 2003-12-09 03:40 · Score: 1

nothing will be an "Outlook Killer" until it runs everywhere that Outlook runs (ie: Windows).

You have a good point.

OTOH, just move down the food chain one more level:

Evo/*NIX will run on the same existing x86 boxes that Outlook/Windows runs on.

--
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by stubear · 2003-12-09 03:40 · Score: 1, Insightful

"...it truly is an Outlook killer."

Outlook clone perhaps, but no where near even an Outlook threat. First and foremost is the lack of a Windows version. Second, Evolution merely mimics some of the functionality of Outlook, not all of it and it lacks the same kind of integration that Outlook/Exchange offer medium and large corporations wanting to standardize on an e-mail, calendar and messaging suite can. Call me a troll if you wish but it seems to me that Evolution is only being used by those who would be better served with Thunderbird; sort of like the Outlook users who should really be using Outlook Express.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by The_K4 · 2003-12-09 03:42 · Score: 1

Now if only Evolution could sync with my PDA-cell phone (which does run PocketPC). I think that's the last thing that keeps me running a windows machine.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by malsdavis · 2003-12-09 03:43 · Score: 1

But Evolution already is replacing Outlook in many places where it has run.

In terms of functionality it is definatly on par. In terms of costand most importantly security, Outlook can't compete.

I bet the virus writers are cursing!!
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by Jellybob · 2003-12-09 03:47 · Score: 3, Informative

it lacks the same kind of integration that Outlook/Exchange offer medium and large corporations wanting to standardize on an e-mail, calendar and messaging suite can.

*cough* connector *cough*
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:50 · Score: 0

No way. Like probably 80 percent of the world, I don't really care about features.

What I do care about is aethetics. Look at the screenshots! Like an increasing number of open-source apps, this is one ugly product GUI-wise.

Evolution won't be an Outlook killer until it looks marginally as sophisticated as Outlook and not like something I could've put together in 15 minutes in Visual Basic.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by damiangerous · 2003-12-09 04:00 · Score: 4, Informative

Try using MultiSync with the SynCE plugin.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by matvei · 2003-12-09 04:15 · Score: 1

Evolution is great stuff; it truly is an Outlook killer.

I wouldn't call it an Outlook killer before it actually has killed Outlook.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by lisany · 2003-12-09 04:20 · Score: 1

If you run an X server on your Windows machine (X-Win32, for example) you can start Evolution on a remote machine with ssh forwarding through PuTTY, or with the DISPLAY envvar or --display flag to Evolution.

So, in fact, you can "run" Evolution on Windows.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by marnerd · 2003-12-09 04:23 · Score: 1

For a partial solution, see SynCE.

--
Not so much a sig as a lack of one.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by Brian+Blessed · 2003-12-09 04:51 · Score: 1

Evolution is great stuff; it truly is an Outlook killer.

Whilst Evolution does seem to function well enough, it is a shame that silly bugs remain in this release, like the drawing problems in the screenshots (i.e. where "Lunch" is scheduled, the "L" collides with its widget's border).

- Brian.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by geeber · 2003-12-09 05:28 · Score: 0, Troll

There is a bigger issue where I work. We use Exchange servers, so I am forced to use Outlook. So, it doesn't matter whether Evolution runs on Windows or not. Until Evolution can connect to Exchange servers, it is DOA for a LOT of people.

--
Download my free songs!
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by JCMay · 2003-12-09 05:49 · Score: 1

Cough Ximian Connector cough.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by JohnFluxx · 2003-12-09 06:02 · Score: 2, Interesting

zope?

Personally we used eclipse+tomcat+struts. It's been working well so far.
The only reason zope was turned down was because of lack of integrated java support. (Personally I'm not convinced that that is a problem...)
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by JohnFluxx · 2003-12-09 06:06 · Score: 1

sounds very interesting.. shouldn't be any fundamental problems doing this.

hmmm
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by Snake_Plisken · 2003-12-09 06:15 · Score: 1

Wouldn't Connector fit your needs?

--

Eat recycled food - it's good for the environment, and OK for you.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by Snake_Plisken · 2003-12-09 06:17 · Score: 1

Remind me to refresh before I post next time :)

--

Eat recycled food - it's good for the environment, and OK for you.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by mculey · 2003-12-09 06:22 · Score: 1

Connector only works for Exchange 2000 and beyond. If you happen to work in a place still in the dark ages with Exchange 5 (as I do) then you're out of luck. I do the happy dance of using my palm to sync between outlook and evolution, which can be a pain.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by The_K4 · 2003-12-09 06:29 · Score: 1

Ok, now that is impressive. I hadn't run into this yet. :) Thank you.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 07:31 · Score: 0

Is it free? No,it is not. What they wan't is money!!!

Use pine. They should spend some $ to original look and stop stealing outlook look and feel.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by Knuckles · 2003-12-09 07:38 · Score: 1

This isn't a "release", it's a development release. It will be released to users as version 2.0

--
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by JCMay · 2003-12-09 07:43 · Score: 1

Don't worry about it.

As it turns out, more than one person had asked the question we'd responded to, and more than one person had answered it.

I was kinda (-1, Redundant), myself.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 09:23 · Score: 0

Lame answer bro. Do-able, yes. Realistic, no.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by bicho · 2003-12-09 11:44 · Score: 1

I wonder what wouls spammers be able to do with that...

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errera hunamum ets
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by rscrawford · 2003-12-09 12:00 · Score: 1

Absolutely! Evolution has more features and is easier to use (in my opinion) than Outlook. It would be nice if there were a Windows port -- I'd snatch it up in a second.

--
-- The reason it's called the right wing? Irony.
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by AstroDrabb · 2003-12-09 15:34 · Score: 1

I have been looking into using eclipse with tomcat. Is there any plugin that can export a war file for uploads? I have looked around, but haven't found any yet.

--
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by JohnFluxx · 2003-12-10 09:31 · Score: 1

The main one can export to a war file (Sysedo or whatever it is).
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by NotZed · 2003-12-11 02:44 · Score: 1

Also, here's a duplicate code report, thanks to CPD. I like the comment on the first duplicate code chunk:
/* sigh, so much for oo code reuse ... */ /* FIXME: put in a function */

Ahh so true.
I tried, yet failed, to avoid such issues, but .. what can you do eh? It was all written in a bit of a rush.

--
_ // `Thinking is an exercise to which all too few brains
\\/ are accustomed' - First Lensman
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by tcopeland · 2003-12-11 02:48 · Score: 1

> what can you do eh?

Yup, I feel your pain. I usually find such things creeping in fairly early on in my projects... despite my best efforts... such is life.

Evolution is a wonderful email client, thanks very much for your efforts!

--
The Army reading list
Re:As an Evolution user for about a year... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-21 11:33 · Score: 0

Who the fuck are you, you flaming faggot!? Crawl up your mother's cunt and die, you fucker.

Hmm. Time for another trial by Space+cowboy · 2003-12-09 03:17 · Score: 1, Interesting

I don't seem to have much luck with mail clients recently - Mozilla (1.4) often barfs when I get japanese spam - really annoying because I have to delete my Inbox and my POP3 spool :-(, before that, an earlier version of Evolution took all my mail and made it unreadable :-((

Say it quietly, but through all my trials of mail on Linux, Outlook has just worked :-( It's bloody annoying, but there you go. Actually I think it may be the X server screwing up mozilla, so maybe the new version of Evolution will have the same problems. If so, it may be time to junk the venerable G400 and go for a newer card which can do dual display...

Any excuse :-)

Simon

--
Physicists get Hadrons!

Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by Malc · 2003-12-09 03:23 · Score: 4, Interesting

You don't use Outlook enough. Ever had to run the scanpst.exe utility? When I hit the "Send/Receive" button in Outlook XP at the moment, I get a dialog saying "The operation failed". The other day I ran into a whole bunch of issues when one of my folders that mailing list messages filters to hit 64Ki messages.
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by Cap'nMike · 2003-12-09 03:26 · Score: 0

Sure, Outlook may work fine, but I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that you have been infected by more virii through opening mail through outlook than you have opening mail through a linux install of Mozilla or Evo.

--
Celebrities are like ads, if we all ignore them, they'll just go away.
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by Space+cowboy · 2003-12-09 03:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

Well, I dunno about that, not that I'm defending Outlook at all - virus-prone piece of sh1t that it is, but since I use POP, I get the same email (in the office) as I do at home.

What I like about Mozilla is the spam filter - fantastic. In the morning I spend 5 minutes filtering mail in outlook, only about 10 seconds in Mozilla. On average I get maybe 400 emails per day, of which about 300-350 are spam. That's because I'm the 'catchall' for the domains though...

If people didn't send me bloody word documents, I'd ditch windows immediately, but Open Office and abiword aren't up to standard yet, for documents that I get sent...

Simon

--
Physicists get Hadrons!
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by schon · 2003-12-09 03:33 · Score: 1

I've had trouble with Mozilla's mail as well.

through all my trials of mail on Linux, Outlook has just worked :-( It's bloody annoying, but there you go.

Outlook isn't quite as bad as Mozilla, but it's still got it's share of issues - not the least of which is wonky POP3 support. I get at least one call a week from users who get the same mail over and over due to Outlook (a mail from the server causes the POP3 collector to crash, and Outlook doesn't delete the mail as it retreives it - it waits until everything is downloaded.. so if you have 300 emails waiting, and the process gets interrupted at #299, the next time you fire up Outlook, you'll have to re-download all of the mail you've already received.)

KMail has personally given me the least amount of grief.. 1.2 had issues for me with PGP support, but recent version are great.
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by sosegumu · 2003-12-09 03:34 · Score: 1

Say it quietly, but through all my trials of mail on Linux, Outlook has just worked

Sorry to say--but this has been my experience too...sigh. It's been awhile, but I think(?) it was the inability to create a rule to automatically forward certain emails with Evolution. Outlook does, which is a shame since I loved nearly everything else in Evolution.

I'm sure that someone will tell me something to the effect of, 'all you have to do is hack the source code, dumbass' but, honestly, I'm not that smart.

--
It's easier to wear the spandex than to do the crunches. --David Lee Roth
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by KingOfBLASH · 2003-12-09 03:38 · Score: 1

"I don't seem to have much luck with mail clients recently - Mozilla (1.4) often barfs when I get japanese spam - really annoying because I have to delete my Inbox and my POP3 spool :-(, before that, an earlier version of Evolution took all my mail and made it unreadable :-(("

I would report the errors you're seeing as bugs. Japanese Spam should be displayed without any problems, although many times I wish I knew enough japanese to redirect it to /dev/null. But I should mention that this may be an encoding issue.
-Dan
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by DarkSarin · 2003-12-09 03:41 · Score: 1

I can't say I've had the same experience. I used Outlook for quite a while, until one day I tried the Mozilla Client.

Let me point out the differences: First, Mozilla allows reasonably easy backup and restore of email. It even imports Outlook's email flawlessly. To this date, I have not found a reliable method of backing up Outlook and being able to retrieve it in a usable format.

Second, there is the handling of spam and junk mail. Outlook is pretty darn worthless, even with filtering enabled, it pretty much ignores your settings, and let's everything through. Mozilla (and thunderbird), however, does not. It eats spam and reliably catches about 90% or more of the junk I get daily. And since it learns, it gets better. It's a no brainer really.

Third, I probably don't need to go into the annoying tendency Outlook has of opening mails to allow a virus to get in. That is so well documented as to make its iteration here inane. Mozilla on the other hand, is secure by defualt, and I understand that Thunderbird is better (although, since I prefer linux, it doesn't make that much difference).

Now, there are a few things that mozilla doesn't do well--first the calendar is lacking. Evolution seems to do pretty good with their calendar, but I don't care for some of the things that it does--such as making backup difficult (and when I mailed the folks that develop it, they never responded--guess I'm not l33t enough to deserve help, since I couldn't figure it out on my own). Another thing that thunderbird didn't have until recently (under linux) was the ability to click on links and have them open in a browser. Now if only they would fix the "mailto:" issue in firebird.

Don't get me wrong, evolution is a great prog, but I don't like everything about it, most of all its blatant spoof of the Outlook interface, which isn't really all that great (I have some friends in Human Factors studies that did some usability testing on Outlook--let's just say it didn't do too hot). Not that Mozilla/Thunderbird/Firebird is perfect, but it is better.

As for the X server screwing up mozilla, I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about. Did you submit a bug report? Or is it not really that important?

I am curious--why are you getting japanese spam? I never get japanese spam. Does it taste better than american spam. Is it still made with fake meat? FWIW, I would barf too if I had to eat spam.

--
"We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by Theatetus · 2003-12-09 03:46 · Score: 4, Interesting

Say it quietly, but through all my trials of mail on Linux, Outlook has just worked

You've never supported Outlook for others, I take it? It does several weird things with POP3. Take, for instance, this recent problem I've been having where Outlook thinks that a messages is 48KB in size when in fact it's only 46KB. It downloads the 46KB, doesn't get any more for that message, tries again, and again, and again, until it chokes and dies. This one guy had 500Megs of that one message in his inbox, and it never even got removed from the server (neither did anything past it). This is probably the POP server's "fault" (they use Post.Office... *shudder*), but the MDA should definitely be able to handle a fault like that.

Anyways, I'm not bashing Outlook in particular (I think on the whole the Office line is Microsoft's best work), I just find it odd that people are totally used to the bugs in Microsoft programs but think that equally annoying but different bugs somehow bar Linux from the desktop.

--
All's true that is mistrusted
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by The_K4 · 2003-12-09 03:47 · Score: 1

If it wern't for my virus scanner I would agree, however it detects and flags all the e-mails with viruses. So the score is 0-0. :)
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by The_K4 · 2003-12-09 03:52 · Score: 1

Let me point out the differences: First, Mozilla allows reasonably easy backup and restore of email. It even imports Outlook's email flawlessly. To this date, I have not found a reliable method of backing up Outlook and being able to retrieve it in a usable format.
Just copy the outlook.pst file to somewhere else. This is a back up. To restore, just put it back over the active one and re-open outlook.

Third, I probably don't need to go into the annoying tendency Outlook has of opening mails to allow a virus to get in. That is so well documented as to make its iteration here inane. Mozilla on the other hand, is secure by defualt, and I understand that Thunderbird is better (although, since I prefer linux, it doesn't make that much difference).
The solution to this is also well documented, turn off preview pane and then set Outlook to not pre-load the e-mail for faster loading. The problem is that users turn on preview pain which forces outlook to pre-load the mail.

I admit that outlook has its issues, but lets not fault it for things that it can do right if you let it.
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by Space+cowboy · 2003-12-09 03:57 · Score: 1

"As for the X server screwing up mozilla, I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about."

Whenever I get an email with (square-character) repeated a lot on the subject line, Mozilla just hangs. It will also just hang when I restart it. I'm assuming it's japanese (could be Chinese, Korean, whatever, I'm not capable of determining the difference). It looks 'far east' when viewed in Outlook.

I think it's the X server because no-one else has ever mentioned it, and I'm running on old (Matrox G400) video hardware with binary drivers. Sometimes the mouse freezes, sometimes the machine slows to a crawl. I'm thinking that Mozilla would have a harder time doing this to my machine than X.

Simon.

--
Physicists get Hadrons!
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by B'Trey · 2003-12-09 04:07 · Score: 1

Get Popfile. Perl-based Baysean filter that works on either Linux or Windows with any POP3 server.

--
"The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by Bertie · 2003-12-09 04:30 · Score: 1

Oh, you need SpamBayes. Plugs right into Outlook and filters away like a good 'un. Trust me here, it's the ticket.

Get it here
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 05:49 · Score: 0

The ms word viewer runs in wine. If you use codeweavers' crossover plugin it'll even integrate nicely with your desktop and browser.

Ofcourse, the word viewer doesn't edit, but for that there is oo.
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 05:52 · Score: 0

I forgot to mention, crossover office runs word in linux. It works. Really.
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by madcow_ucsb · 2003-12-09 06:11 · Score: 2, Interesting

Ok, I'm probably trolling at this point but....

Good.

Anything that forces users to get off POP3 and use something halfway decent (IMAP anyone?) is a good thing in my book.

It beats having to deal with people who get all their email stuck on their laptop and end up loosing all synchronization with the server and their other systems. With IMAP everything stays on the server, you only download the *headers* you want, you get info on what you've replied to and read, you get multiple folders...

Seriously, why is POP even supported anymore? I don't think I've touched a POP server in about 3 years....

So tell your friends to hit that IMAP button instead of POP and lets let POP die already...
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by Pfhreakaz0id · 2003-12-09 06:43 · Score: 1

Seconded. SpamBayes rocks. Make a junk mail folder and move all your spam there for a few days to be ready to train it when you install by having a clean, spam free inbox and a folder full of the spam you get.

Free install and setup in a few minutes and works flawlessly for me.

--
DO NOT DISTURB THE SE
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 07:37 · Score: 2, Insightful

"Seriously, why is POP even supported anymore?"

Because some places don't want every user's entire mail history on the server?

A Nony Mouse
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by DarkSarin · 2003-12-09 10:24 · Score: 1

yes, and that's nice that the solution is so well documented. The problem is that it the default settings are insecure. 90% or more of the population never change these.

--
"We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by twistedcubic · 2003-12-09 21:25 · Score: 1

If people didn't send me bloody word documents, I'd ditch windows immediately, but Open Office and abiword aren't up to standard yet, for documents that I get sent...

I've been working with many teachers this fall, and I was a little unprepared for the MS Word ubiquity. But guess what, the word viewer, power point viewer, and excel viewer programs work flawlessly under wine. And more importantly, wine pretty much configures itself nowadays. Also, Microsoft encourages you to distribute the viewer programs to all your friends, so there are no licensing problems either. The only thing is that you can't create Word documents yourself, but why would anyone want to do this?
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by The_K4 · 2003-12-10 03:00 · Score: 1

Actually it's not the default. The problem is that people don't realize how insecure they make the system with the box that turns on preview pane.
Re:Hmm. Time for another trial by Theatetus · 2003-12-10 03:12 · Score: 1

Seriously, why is POP even supported anymore?

Well, for example, one of our mail servers has about 900 mail accounts. I don't want to keep 900 people's email on that server; it's bad enough over a holiday when people leave 3 day's worth of mail on there.

POP works fine for people with one computer, or as a "staging point" for a groupware mail system.

--
All's true that is mistrusted

Groupwise Plugin? by mr_lithic · 2003-12-09 03:19 · Score: 2

I thought that this version was going to include support for Groupwise?

Novell was trumpeting this as their Linux Mail Client on Ximian.

Many friends have told me to install it ... by GNUALMAFUERTE · 2003-12-09 03:19 · Score: 0

and i did, and it's a nice app, but i just can't get ride of mutt and procmail ...

--
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?

slashdotting by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:20 · Score: 0, Funny

Hrm... they've got a pretty hefty server, this is gonna be tough.

I know! Link straight to the screenshots page!

Gentoo Users by peterprior · 2003-12-09 03:21 · Score: 2, Informative

Ebuilds for evolution 1.5 are on breakmygentoo.net

Re:Gentoo Users by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:33 · Score: 0

I thought Gentoo users were savvy enough to find new ebuilds on their own...
Wait...I get it. You just wanted to throw another annoying Gentoo plug. Hoorah for Gentoo!
Re:Gentoo Users by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 08:02 · Score: 0

Hoorah for Gentoo!
Oh...wait, I get it. You just wanted to throw another annoying Gentoo flame.
Hoorah for flames!

S/MIME support? by Cthefuture · 2003-12-09 03:21 · Score: 4, Interesting

Is S/MIME support new for this release? I poked around on the site some and it looks like it is but I couldn't find any more information about it.

How are certificates and keys managed? Does it (hopefully) use a PKCS#11 module like Mozilla?

I don't know why more stuff doesn't use S/MIME early on. PGP/GPG and the others are not really standard and don't work off-the-shelf with a lot of big software (Mozilla and Outlook being two of them).

--
The ratio of people to cake is too big

Re:S/MIME support? by richdawe · 2003-12-09 05:57 · Score: 1

I don't know why more stuff doesn't use S/MIME early on. PGP/GPG and the others are not really standard and don't work off-the-shelf with a lot of big software (Mozilla and Outlook being two of them).

Have you looked at the OpenPGP standard? It's an IETF standard (RFC 2440) - a Proposed Standard. I have no idea whether Mozilla or Outlook support it, but I think mutt does.
Re:S/MIME support? by Alan · 2003-12-09 07:21 · Score: 1

No offense, but that doesn't do someone a lot of good. The original poster probably has to communicate with people using windows certs and pointing to a standard that is impelemented in one mail client doesn't do a whole lot of good :)

(disclaimer - I'm a mutt user)
Re:S/MIME support? by gmacek · 2003-12-09 07:31 · Score: 1

S/MIME is new to this release, AFAIK. A place to start looking is here. The Evo developers post some of their latest work and sometimes have screenshots for those who like that sort of thing. :)
Re:S/MIME support? by lordholm · 2003-12-09 09:06 · Score: 1

S/MIME use x.509 certificates. While you theoretically could generate one your self and self-sign it, no client would trust it.

www.thwate.com are giving out free mail certificates, you do however have to give them lots of personal data, but I would assume that Thwate is a trustable company.

If you do get a certificate from them with Mozilla:

Select preferences->Privacy & Security->Certificates.
Click on manage certificates
Select the Thwate Freemail certificate
Click on Backup and save the certificate with some password.
Start Evolution and import the certificate through the S/MIME prefs dialoge.
Done!

--
"Civis Europaeus sum!"
Re:S/MIME support? by Cthefuture · 2003-12-09 11:02 · Score: 1

That really doesn't have anything to do with what I'm asking, but it sounds like it only imports PKCS#12 blobs and uses an internal certificate and key manager.

Not very secure and not very flexible (no hardware token support). I'll have to get on the mailing list or forums for Evolution so I can talk with the developers.

--
The ratio of people to cake is too big
Re:S/MIME support? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 13:19 · Score: 0

As a "standard", PGPMail is pretty much dead. The real corporate standard is S/MIME.
Re:S/MIME support? by lordholm · 2003-12-09 19:28 · Score: 2, Interesting

Yes, hardware support seem to be missing. This isn't good, I want to use the Swedish postal services electronic ids (smart-card based) since the S/MIME support in this would allow me to sign LEGALLY BINDING contracts via e-mail.

Then I don't have to meet a person in real life... ever : )

--
"Civis Europaeus sum!"
Re:S/MIME support? by bill_mcgonigle · 2003-12-10 06:02 · Score: 1

a lot of big software (Mozilla and Outlook being two of them).

Count Apple Mail among the savvy, as of Panther. It's totally automagic, once you figure out how to get your cert into the Keychain.

--
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)

If we're gonna get news like this... by Raleel · 2003-12-09 03:23 · Score: 5, Insightful

How about at least mentioning what features are new?

--
-- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --

Re:If we're gonna get news like this... by John+Jorsett · 2003-12-09 05:40 · Score: 1

How about at least mentioning what features are new?
Better still, how about also saying what the product IS? I've never heard of Evolution, and had to dig around a bit to discover that it's a PIM. Would it kill people to spend another three words to say that in the headline?
Re:If we're gonna get news like this... by JerkBoB · 2003-12-09 06:33 · Score: 2, Funny

I've never heard of Evolution, and had to dig around a bit to discover that it's a PIM.

Have you been living under a rock for the last three years?

--
A host is a host from coast to coast...
Unless it's down, or slow, or fails to POST!
Re:If we're gonna get news like this... by John+Jorsett · 2003-12-09 11:57 · Score: 1

This is the same reaction I get when somebody mentions a sports team and I ask if it's baseball or football. Hard as it may be to believe, some people don't share the same fascinations and need a little context when some wonderful thing happens on Project Blurfty Sprackett.
Re:If we're gonna get news like this... by JerkBoB · 2003-12-10 04:57 · Score: 1

Hard as it may be to believe, some people don't share the same fascinations and need a little context when some wonderful thing happens on Project Blurfty Sprackett.

I was actually serious, though my question had a flip tone to it. I would understand if the article had been about Project Blurfty Sprackett 0.3 on SourceForge or something, but you have a low enough UID that I have a hard time believing that you've never seen any of the many articles about Evolution over the last few years.

If you do a /. search with 'Evolution' as the search string and 'Ximian' as the topic, there are 11 articles about Evolution over the last few years, and those're just articles specifically about Evolution. It's been written about extensively in lots of other places, both electronic and paper.

Anyhow... I guess my reason for writing this reply is not to deride you, but to suggest that you read a little more widely than you apparently do now. It's good to learn about new things.

--
A host is a host from coast to coast...
Unless it's down, or slow, or fails to POST!
Re:If we're gonna get news like this... by John+Jorsett · 2003-12-10 09:46 · Score: 1

I wrote a thoughtful, humorous, and witty reply, and the server decided at the moment of submission that it would take a vacation. The world's loss. Summary: I thought I WAS reading pretty widely.

Re:On the Calendatr screenshots.. by twoslice · 2003-12-09 03:23 · Score: 1

Give the guy a break. It looks like he didn't have dinner all last month and needed a reminder...

--

From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...

Fedora Core 1 not supported by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:24 · Score: 5, Interesting

I tried installing it just now. Their install program says it does not recognize my distribution .. and will not let me install

I am using Fedora Core 1

Re:Fedora Core 1 not supported by lisany · 2003-12-09 04:24 · Score: 1

Its a sign from above! Repent, ye Red Hat sinner!
Re:Fedora Core 1 not supported by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 04:54 · Score: 0

So... try hacking your /etc/redhat-release file.

Quite possibly that's all they check for.
Re:Fedora Core 1 not supported by mshiltonj · 2003-12-09 05:02 · Score: 1

I bet it works on SUSE.

Evolution == Ximian == Novell == SUSE

--
Software Wars
Re:Fedora Core 1 not supported by Nailer · 2003-12-09 13:48 · Score: 1

Same here. This is really surprising - Red Hat Linux is one of the most popular distros around and Fedoras its logical successor for enthusiasts (who are generally the kind of people to jump on the latest release of something like Evo).

Developer release? by Delirium+Tremens · 2003-12-09 03:24 · Score: 3, Informative

From the announcement:

The main purpose of this release is, of course, to gather as much testing as possible from users.

So is Evolution 1.5 a development release? Are they following the same numbering scheme as the Linux kernel? So does that mean that if I am not in a testing mood, I should rather wait for 1.6?

Re:Developer release? by irix · 2003-12-09 03:30 · Score: 4, Informative

So is Evolution 1.5 a development release? Are they following the same numbering scheme as the Linux kernel?

Yes and yes.

If you don't want to be testing 1.5 then you should be waiting for a stable 2.0. Of course, if you can, testing 1.5 is a good thing.

--

Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
Re:Developer release? by Mark+Gordon · 2003-12-09 03:42 · Score: 1

Exactly. Evolution has been proposed for inclusion in the GNOME 2.6 Desktop release, and this requires periodic release of snapshots according to GNOME release schedule guidelines. This tarball is in many ways more of a milestone release than anything else. It's hardly free of bugs yet. I use it, but I'm in a testing mood. ;-)

Snapshot packages of 1.5 are (and have been) available for several distributions (SuSE Linux 8.2 and 9.0; Red Hat Linux 9; Mandrake Linux 9.1 and 9.2) via either Red Carpet (for those platforms for which Red Carpet has been released, i.e. not yet for SuSE Linux 9.0 or Mandrake Linux 9.2) or at ftp.ximian.com. Note that they're in the Evolution Development Snapshot channel (in Red Carpet) or the /pub/evolution-devel-snapshot directory (on ftp).

Again, the caveat, in case anyone missed it: development, unstable, not really a good idea in a production environment yet.
Re:Developer release? by BigBir3d · 2003-12-09 03:48 · Score: 1

Yes. This is why the "stable" download page has 1.4.5 not 1.5.0 there.

What's the big excitement? by milgr · 2003-12-09 03:25 · Score: 5, Informative

This is a development release. According to evolution's planned milestones, the stable 1.6 release will be out in March.

Like the kernel, the odd dot releases are development.

That said, I choose to use evolution 1.4 for most of my email needs.

--
Where law ends, tyranny begins -- William Pitt

Re:What's the big excitement? by thejackol · 2003-12-09 05:33 · Score: 1

The next stable release is Evolution 2.0 (on March 3rd, according to their roadmap) and not 1.6.
Re:What's the big excitement? by twener · 2003-12-09 05:59 · Score: 1

It's strange when an Evolution Alpha makes it on the front page and a KDE Beta not.
Re:What's the big excitement? by Chainsaw · 2003-12-09 06:47 · Score: 1

Slashdot seems very pro-Gnome, mostly because... Well... I have no fucking idea why, actually.

--
War is one of the most horrible things a human can be exposed to. And one of the worlds largest industries.
Re:What's the big excitement? by Alan · 2003-12-09 07:29 · Score: 1

What's the url to the kde beta?

Also, I don't think that a 1.5 is an alpha. Evolution has been quite stable since it's pre-1.0 days. 1.5 is a rehauling, but doesn't place the program back at the alpha stage by any means.
Re:What's the big excitement? by twener · 2003-12-09 08:45 · Score: 1

> What's the url to the kde beta?
developers.slashdot story
> 1.5 is a rehauling, but doesn't place the program back at the alpha stage by any means.
It's more than an rehaul. It has been rewritten into a UI client and a data server part. More kind of a rewrite.
Re:What's the big excitement? by gnunick · 2003-12-09 14:59 · Score: 1

It's a barely-ready-for-snapshot *unstable* version. I'd pretty much call that an alpha. It's nowhere near ready for final release. Hell, I can't even get today's snapshot to work at all.

--
I have no special gift, I am only passionately curious. --Albert Einstein

This is a testing release by irix · 2003-12-09 03:25 · Score: 5, Informative

This is one of the Evolution testing releases that go along with Gnome 2.5. The goal is a stable Evolution 2.0 and Gnome 2.6 later in the spring. Check out he roadmap.

So by all means, pick up 1.5 if you want to help with bug fixing, but this is not a "stable" release.

--

Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.

OK this is lame but..... by Coaster-Sj · 2003-12-09 03:25 · Score: 2, Funny

So Evolution has evolved....

--
"Average intelligence is pretty damn stupid"

Re:OK this is lame but..... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:53 · Score: 0

I for one welcome our evolutionary overlords...

(+1 More lame than parent)

I liked the previous version alot better... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:26 · Score: 1, Flamebait

...when it was called Outlook.

If this carbon-copy turd is being held up as a shining example of open-source software, I would have to laugh. Total rip off of another program.

ooh I can connect it to Exchange server? But you will charge me money for this? And this connection software is proprietary and you will not reveal the source code? Sweet.

Re:I liked the previous version alot better... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 06:22 · Score: 0

Ahh, you're correct of course...all evil roads lead back to Microsoft. That must be it, unquestionably.

I still think... by cK-Gunslinger · 2003-12-09 03:26 · Score: 5, Insightful

.. that one of the oft-overlooked facilitators of open-source software is having a Windows client. Mozilla/Firebird/Thunderbird seem to understand this, as well as tons of other projects. I am almost at a point where I could switch from Win2k to any flavor of Linux and still use the same apps 90% of the time. (Thunderbird, OO.org, Thunderbird, Gimp, Eclipse, etc)

I don't pretend to understand the intricacies of Evolution and why it may be impossible to run on Windows, but I think that if it were possible, it would be a large boon to the project.

Re:I still think... by metamatic · 2003-12-09 03:40 · Score: 0, Flamebait

It's an Outlook/Exchange clone. If you want a Windows version, run the real thing.

--
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Re:I still think... by KingOfBLASH · 2003-12-09 03:44 · Score: 1

I don't pretend to understand the intricacies of Evolution and why it may be impossible to run on Windows, but I think that if it were possible, it would be a large boon to the project.

I would conjecture it's mostly about resources. Most open source projects are very poorly funded -- the new programmer as starving artist paradigm. So, it probably comes down to the fact that, yes, the GTK toolkit has been ported over to windows, yes, there are windows users who would be more likely to migrate if a windows build were available, but, no, it isn't worth squandering the meager resources available to Evolution.

With that said, since Novell now owns Ximian it is possible things may change. I think that would be great, but at the same time, I have to wonder if the money spent on Windows wouldn't be better spent improving Evolution and making it blow Outlook out of the water.
Re:I still think... by cK-Gunslinger · 2003-12-09 03:48 · Score: 3, Interesting

Uh, no. I would like to think the purpose of releasing OS software for Windows is not to "make a clone," but rather to "supply the same functionality in an application that is open, standards-compliant, and similiar in appearance/use."

A lot of open source developers have the attitude of "anything you can do, we can do better." And this is a good thing. You wouldn't say, "Why run Firebird on Windows? It's just a IE clone, run the real thing," now would you?
Re:I still think... by cK-Gunslinger · 2003-12-09 03:59 · Score: 1

I have to wonder if the money spent on Windows wouldn't be better spent improving Evolution and making it blow Outlook out of the water

In due time, I say. We cannot over-look the hooooge Windows user-base. First you need a working client. Then you can get feedback and improve upon it.

How many people do you think believe that they can offer suggestions to Microsoft in improve thier products? I know I've sent email to MS on more than one occasion, suggesting that they investigate adding tabbed browsing to IE. This was when I first saw it in Opera and again later in Mozilla. I never got a response, and I see that it has never materialized. As a result, I've been using Firebird for several months, and recommend it to everyone I know.

Now how many people believe that you can make suggestions for an OS project? Even if you can't get your feature added, there's not much stopping you from doing it yourself, other than your own limitations. This is why OS can be better than proprietary software. This is how OS software will blow X out of the water.
Re:I still think... by SuperQ · 2003-12-09 04:11 · Score: 1

That's not the point. Once you get users on a windows version of Evolution, OO.o, Mozilla, etc etc.. you can then migrate them off of windows entirely.. windows versions of open source software are usefull to help ween people away from proprietary OS's :)
Re:I still think... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 05:38 · Score: 0

Not to mention that replacing the browser and mail client with OS software cuts off 90+ percent of virus and malware access pathways.
Re:I still think... by MagPulse · 2003-12-09 05:40 · Score: 1

You're an Evolution developer? I was thinking about looking in to what's involved in a Windows distribution. My guess is that GTK is still super slow and any ports using it won't be usable. But if it's not ready to be released to the Windows users to go head-to-head with Outlook right now then maybe I'll wait until 2.0.
Re:I still think... by cK-Gunslinger · 2003-12-09 05:46 · Score: 1

You're an Evolution developer?

No, I'm not. I didn't mean to give that impression. Perhaps my choice of the word "we" was inadvertantly misleading...

Ximian Connector by Chuck+Bucket · 2003-12-09 03:26 · Score: 3, Interesting

Is there ANY way to try out the Ximian Connector before buying it? I can't convince my company to buy it for me, even though I'm on a Linux workstation running all of the *nix boxes in house. (I run rdesktop to connect to a win box to check my email via Outlook - which is a waste). I want to try it, and would gladly buy it myself if I thought it worked fine. Or, can anyone testify to it's usefulness? Evoltion has come such a long way in the past year, I really want to start using that fulltime.

CB

--
free ipod and free gmail!

Re:Ximian Connector by tita · 2003-12-09 03:40 · Score: 2, Informative

Call them up and ask them for a tryout version. A coworker of mine did that and Ximian (was still ximian back then) just gave him a version to test.

--
"Who wishes to be creative, must first destroy and smash accepted values." - Nietzsche
Re:Ximian Connector by fea · 2003-12-09 04:22 · Score: 1

It works here at ORNL. Indeed it is "recommended" software for us Linux users to interface with the ORNL Exchange servers. I think I did get a test version prior to purchase.
Re:Ximian Connector by AlxRogan · 2003-12-09 04:52 · Score: 1

If your Exchange server is running IMAP, you could always just use that to talk to it. That is how I've been using Evolution for the last couple of years.
Re:Ximian Connector by rkhalloran · 2003-12-09 04:58 · Score: 1

It worked flawlessly at the office talking to an Ex2K server under Red Hat 9; previous comments apply about the server needing Outlook Web Access enabled.

Then updating to Fedora Core 1 broke it, and Ximian is only saying Real Soon Now on a fix. So if you're using latest-n-greatest, you too may be hosed for now.
Re:Ximian Connector by GrenDel+Fuego · 2003-12-09 05:44 · Score: 1

Works great for e-mail, but how about the Calendar?

Remember that exchange is not just an e-mail server.
Re:Ximian Connector by Chuck+Bucket · 2003-12-10 03:30 · Score: 1

Exactly, I run Evo with IMAP and can get my email fine, but I'm always late to meetings here at work. Of course then I just blame it on the fact that I don't have access to my Calendar via Linux! I'm going to try to get a 30-day test, if it works as I think it will, I'll just buy it myself.

Thanks!

CB

--
free ipod and free gmail!

Won't be going anywhere near my systems... by Tet · 2003-12-09 03:27 · Score: 1, Interesting

It's more bloated than emacs. And that's saying something. But more than that, it's the wrong approach. The world doens't need a huge integrated app that tries to do aeverything under the sun. We need small, well desgined apps that do exactly what they say on the tin, and that work well together. The GNOME project is in dire need of a calendaring tool, but after they discontinued gnome-pim, Evolution is the only option. I already have a mail program, and I'm not about to switch (Evolution doesn't give me the functionality I need, for a start). Unfortunately, there's no way to get at the calendaring without taking the whole lot. And the calendaring doesn't seem to work anyway... it doesn't give me a popup when a meeting is due. Which makes it pretty useless :-(

--
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown

Re:Won't be going anywhere near my systems... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:33 · Score: 0

Dumbass, The world already has moved way past you. We are talking about GUI stuff for the masses NOT the Unix Phil, BIG difference.
Re:Won't be going anywhere near my systems... by cK-Gunslinger · 2003-12-09 03:33 · Score: 1

Have you looked at Mozilla Calendar?
Re:Won't be going anywhere near my systems... by tero · 2003-12-09 03:39 · Score: 2, Informative

As long time mutt user I agree with your sentiments, however I'm quite sure Evolution (and similar 'bloated' applications) are needed if Linux ever wants to take over the corporate desktop world.
I also agree the it would be nice to have a separate Gnome calendar (i.e KDE's Organizer, or whatever it was called) but in the mean while Mozilla Calendar looks quite good...
Re:Won't be going anywhere near my systems... by ambrosius27 · 2003-12-09 03:42 · Score: 2, Interesting

One of the main goals of the Evolution 5.x/2.0 release is to better separate the different modules, so that separate mail, calendar, task, and contact programs will be much, much easier. The frontend/backend split (i.e. Evolution and evolution-data-server) and simplified APIs will help in this regard, as will the deprecation of the tree-view side-panel. The Evolution hackers are also toying with making stand-alone shells for the calendar, task, contact, and email programs. With the new structure, such separation should be much simpler.

Cheers!

--

~~~~~~~~~
dissertus scribendo latine videri volo.
Re:Won't be going anywhere near my systems... by skajake · 2003-12-09 03:44 · Score: 1

The evolution roadmap calls for a breakup of the component similar to what Mozilla is planning for Thunder/Fire Bird.

--
~ Maintainer of the Skajake Projects
Re:Won't be going anywhere near my systems... by KingOfBLASH · 2003-12-09 03:53 · Score: 1

"The world doens't need a huge integrated app that tries to do aeverything under the sun. "

The Linux paradigm is changing, for better or for worse. There are now users who demand a single app that is completely integrated. This is who is being targeted companys like Ximian and Sun -- who are trying to draw users away from Linux. This is not necessarily a bad thing. I would bet money the *BSD stay unapologetically about the original Unix philosophy for a long time to come.

Unfortunately, there's no way to get at the calendaring without taking the whole lot. And the calendaring doesn't seem to work anyway... it doesn't give me a popup when a meeting is due. Which makes it pretty useless :-(

Give me 30 minutes to an hour in the code and I could create a pop up notification for whatever calender you use. Give me another couple hours I'll make it look pretty with a nice GUI, etc. That's the beauty of open source -- if the functionality isn't there you can hire someone. Give me an email at dan AT mathjunkies DOT com if you're interested in discussing a project like that.
Re:Won't be going anywhere near my systems... by BigBir3d · 2003-12-09 03:54 · Score: 1

As long time mutt user I agree with your sentiments, however I'm quite sure Evolution (and similar 'bloated' applications) are needed if Linux ever wants to take over the corporate desktop world.

I prefer pine to elm ;-)

Linux will most likely never "take over the corporate desktop world" until there is no more Microsoft. Word, Excel, and PowerPoint rule the roost. And everytime they upgrade to a new version, and Dell keeps selling 37% of the US market (PC in general, not sure of corp numbers), etc etc etc. A reactionary response to bring town the titan is not the way to go. You need to be doing something different, and better. On the outside, I see Evolution as the S.O.S. that MS makes, only without the new XP inspired Office 2003 skin.
Re:Won't be going anywhere near my systems... by uberdave · 2003-12-09 04:09 · Score: 1

The Linux paradigm is changing, for better or for worse. There are now users who demand a single app that is completely integrated.

There is no reason why the gui can't blend a handful of separate applications into a seemless, completely integrated user experience. What is needed is some open design guides so that applications can share each other's data.

--
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
Re:Won't be going anywhere near my systems... by KingOfBLASH · 2003-12-09 04:31 · Score: 1

There is no reason why the gui can't blend a handful of separate applications into a seemless, completely integrated user experience. What is needed is some open design guides so that applications can share each other's data.

Yes, I agree, open design guidelines -- if adhered to -- would be a wonderful thing, allowing people to create their own "integration suite" (if you will) based on completely modular components. Complete personalization for everyone, right?

Unfortunately, these guidelines don't exist and won't in the foreseeable future. (Even if a consortium got together, think of how long adoption would take -- CSS 2 has been out for a long time, and yet it still is not 100% implemented by all browsers). And, even if they did exist, there would need to be standard libraries created for a number of different languages so that they could be seamlessly integrated into applications (sort of like Perls Exporter module). Which could be done, but you're adding more time onto it. Although, perhaps since CSS involved creating code to render style sheets in a browser and this only involves creating libraries / modules it could be a lot faster.
Re:Won't be going anywhere near my systems... by gathas · 2003-12-09 04:42 · Score: 1

This is something that has always troubled me about many of the Open Source GUI projects. They seem to be copies of MS applications instead of trying to take advantage of what I and hopefully most people love about Unix OSes. Namely that small applications work well and take advantage of the services and functions the the UI level of the OS. I've always thought that the whole concept of and "Office" application was a sign of defeat. MS Office always says to me that "our OS is too crappy to make it easy for users to easily work with multiple applictions from many sources and formats, so we are adding a meta-OS layer on top that our applications can work together on". I spend more time on Windows than I care too admit, and one of the things that really pisses me off, is that many MS apps (Outlooks, Source Safe, Visual Studio) can just use the native file system concept of files and folders to store data, but create some new composite store system that looks just like files and folders, but doesn't map to the system storage. This works well for older unix apps since they are all text based and I freely admit that this is a challenge that I don't know the answer too but one worth attempting. Otherwise Linux is just a free clone of Windows, not fundamentally better, just open. I'm always shocked at novice users I know who learn how to use a couple of apps on their windows box but don't understand how to use the file browser or where their documents are being saved. The actual interface of text based unix apps is difficult to learn, but at least they are resuable and modular
Re:Won't be going anywhere near my systems... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 04:56 · Score: 0

Yes, but it doesn't seem to have seen any activity in about 5 months.

I _really_ liked what I saw in Mozilla Calendar. But every time you upgraded Moz, you had to reinstall Calendar. A minor issue.

But the show-stopper for me and the 600 or so of my co-workers is that it doesn't allow one to subscribe to calendars on our SunONE (formerly iPlanet, I believe) server. If this functionality were added, I'm confident that most folks where I work would switch overnight to Mozilla Calendar, and it would just be a short hop from there to Moz Mail/browser.

As it is, my co-workers are gradually migrating from Eudora to Outlook, and have pretty much migrated from Netscape to IE, and I have nothing to offer them to prevent it. Bummer.

If there are any codemonkeys reading this who want to make a difference in a university setting to help convert the world to an OpenSource world (which would also trickle down to the student employees (and maybe other students) who are tomorrow's office workers), I encourage you to grab the Mozilla Calendar code and add this functionality. It would be a tremendously great thing in my part of the world!
Re:Won't be going anywhere near my systems... by mccalli · 2003-12-09 05:06 · Score: 2, Informative

Dumbass, The world already has moved way past you. We are talking about GUI stuff for the masses NOT the Unix Phil, BIG difference.
Apple would disagree with you. Apple's approach is to separate out the address book, calendar and mail applications - they all interoperate, but they're all different applications. So far, the only slight glitch in this is the lack of import of birthdays between address book and calendar. Other than that, the approach works really well.
I'd argue that Apple are rather more geared to the consumer than they are to Unix Phil, but they've shown that you don't need to abandon one in order to please the other.
Cheers,
Ian
Re:Won't be going anywhere near my systems... by pantherace · 2003-12-09 05:08 · Score: 1

Kontact.
It works by integrating various programs (kmail, address book, knode, korganizer (calender) etc).
There are some things that need to be added IMO, including better kopete integration with the address book (3.2 will be the first kde where kopete is part of it, so there is some slack needed :) )
Re:Won't be going anywhere near my systems... by bravenight · 2003-12-09 06:52 · Score: 1

And the calendaring doesn't seem to work anyway... it doesn't give me a popup when a meeting is due.

Odd, my install of evolution does - and always has (started using at 1.0.?). I rely on those popups, and on the alarm from my PDA.
Re:Won't be going anywhere near my systems... by anagama · 2003-12-09 11:10 · Score: 1
one problem (from the FAQ):
- Does it synch with my Palm Pilot?
  The calendar does not yet synch with your Palm Pilot.
--
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Re:Won't be going anywhere near my systems... by Tet · 2003-12-09 12:08 · Score: 2, Insightful

There are now users who demand a single app that is completely integrated.
Rubbish. That sort of user wouldn't even know the difference. It's all down to presentation. If you can present a bunch of apps so that they work together seamlessly, then the end user may as well think of them as a single app. That's the direction in which we should be heading. But too many people are too eager to clone the mistakes that Microsoft have made instead...

--
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown

Re:Gnome translate-o-matic 1.5 has been released by Malc · 2003-12-09 03:27 · Score: 1

"the Local unix geek showed me Debian, which installed Gnome 1.4 by default"

Twaddle. My default Debian install didn't even have X installed. I think you'll find that the default when you "apt-get x-windows-system" is TWM. I chose to follow this with "apt-get kde". There is no GNOME installed on my Debian box.

Ugly by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:27 · Score: 0

I prefer Gnome myself. This is ugly.

Re:Ugly by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:37 · Score: 0

yes

evolution is ugly as compared to gnome

as is this chick

Re:On the Calendatr screenshots.. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:28 · Score: 0

Yeah, but they have to work on their TV Interviews. They didn't eat anything for _four_ days after it!

Remote calendar support? by IGnatius+T+Foobar · 2003-12-09 03:29 · Score: 5, Insightful

Evolution is truly a first class application. Polished, debugged, good-looking, and professional.

That having been said, though, I am still disappointed by the fact that they are not supporting remote calendars out of the box. Sure, you can buy plugins to connect it to Exchange, or Netscape/iPlanet/SunONE/JES calendar server (whatever they're calling it this week), and presumably Groupwise (soon) ... but where's the built-in support for remote calendars using an open protocol? Folks like me who are developing open source groupware servers are anxiously awaiting good clientware to connect to. How about putting WCAP in the standard build? It's well-documented and much simpler than the disgusting mess the IETF is proposing (CAP has the dubious honor of being the one protocol even uglier than IMAP).

So how about it, codemonkeys? The sooner we get some real open source calendaring going, the sooner we can start to make a real challenge to Outlook. Microsoft loves the Outlook/Exchange lock-in. They love it so much that they're trying to do the same thing across their entire product line (Office 2003 has many ties to SharePoint server). The window of opportunity is open, but it won't be forever.

--
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!

Re:Remote calendar support? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 04:17 · Score: 0

That having been said, though, I am still disappointed by the fact that they are not supporting remote calendars out of the box. Sure, you can buy plugins to connect it to Exchange, or Netscape/iPlanet/SunONE/JES calendar server (whatever they're calling it this week), and presumably Groupwise (soon) ... but where's the built-in support for remote calendars using an open protocol?

Ximian/Novell is a company. To employ people they must make money. Selling their connector makes them money. I know this is a liberal site but please have enough sense to understand that to make money, generally you have to sell something, print your own or mooch off the government. The majority of evolution users dont even connect to exchange.

Re:Too bad ... by bunhed · 2003-12-09 03:29 · Score: 1

Indeed. Evolution ate my address book, twice, and buddy's AB once that I know of. It's moz for me.

Not following HIG by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:29 · Score: 1, Insightful

And it still doesn't follow the GNOME HIG, Toolbar not customizable (not following Icons Only, Text besides Icons, Text below Icons and Text only), too many entries in the Menu.

What purpose does the GNOME HIG have if nobody cares a shit for it ? On the otherhand it looks like entourage - what an innovation.

Evolution 1.5 Screens by breman · 2003-12-09 03:29 · Score: 3, Informative

calenders
mail
tasks

Re:woohoo! by big_groo · 2003-12-09 03:30 · Score: 1

A process that has yet to happen to your lineage.

Lacking info.. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:31 · Score: 0

Nice that you include the 'obligatory' screenshots so they can get slashdoted...

But how about the obligatory 'what the fuck is it'?

I know that this would make your 2 line post into 3 lines but we must all sacrifice in these difficult times.

Re:Lacking info.. by holygoat · 2003-12-09 04:47 · Score: 1

It's a Gnome mail, calendar and contacts suite, very similar to Outlook on Windows.

Of course, you could have visited Google and done some work yourself.

bayesian spam filter? by pyros · 2003-12-09 03:31 · Score: 4, Interesting

Anyone know when that is going to be added. I remember seeing some posts about getting started on it on the developer mailing list after 1.4 was released, but I don't see mention of it.

Re:bayesian spam filter? by illusion_2K · 2003-12-09 03:59 · Score: 2, Informative

While this isn't a feature of Evolution per-se, you can integrate bogofilter into it pretty easily. I use it myself and other than a bunch of false positives from a few mailing lists, it's great.
Re:bayesian spam filter? by ResidentLinuxLunatic · 2003-12-09 04:13 · Score: 1

You also can incorporate spam-assassin as a message filter.

To do so:

Add a new message filter.
In the top group box (the "If" box), add an item that is "Pipe Message to Shell Command".
For the command enter:
"spamassassin -e >/dev/null"
Change "returns" to "returns greater than".
Then set the value to "0" (zero).
In the bottom group box (the "Then" box), choose the "Move to folder" option and send the message to a folder (I call mine "suspected-spam").
Add another item to "Stop Processing".

That should do it. If spam-assassin detects the message as being Spam, it will move it to that folder. Granted, you still need to peek at the folder and clean it out manually, but until it "learns" what is spam/ham, it's good to not have it simply delete the messages blindly.
Re:bayesian spam filter? by ewtrowbr · 2003-12-09 04:27 · Score: 2, Informative

bogofilter does a wonderful job of plugging into Evolution via the filters. You can match any header string in the inbound email and pipe the mail through bogofilter. A later filter takes anything labeled as spam, and sends it to the spam folder. I catch 90-95% of my spam that way. and I have NEVER had a false positive.

Re:woohoo! by grub · 2003-12-09 03:31 · Score: 5, Funny

What the fuck is "evolution"?

Apparently something your murky area of the genetic pond stopped doing generations ago.

--
Trolling is a art,

Windows version by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:32 · Score: 0

Where can I download the Win32 version of Evolution? I want to try this program out, but I'm not intelligent enough to install and use Linux or *BSD. I'm using MozillaThunderbird right now, but I'd like to see how Evolution performs. Your thoughts?

Optometrix v20.20 release coming soon? by cryptoluddite · 2003-12-09 03:33 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Seriously the fonts in Linux are just terrible. I used to think I screwed up my Fedora install since the Windows fonts were so crisp compared to Linux, but judging by the screenshots it's just all Linux I guess.

My eyes used to hurt looking at Linux until I changed my fonts to a non-proportional bitmap font and turned off antialiasing -- now it's crisp even though it looks butt ugly. I tried every setting (days of goofing around) and nothing else worked. I even copied the Windows fonts to Linux, but they were blurred too.

Does anybody know how to get crisp fonts on Linux? Thx.

Re:Optometrix v20.20 release coming soon? by tuffy · 2003-12-09 03:45 · Score: 1

Does anybody know how to get crisp fonts on Linux? Thx.

Put:
export GDK_USE_XFT=0
in your ~/.xinitrc file (or whatever the Gnome/KDE equivilent is) to turn off GTK2/Xft's antialiasing.

--
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
Re:Optometrix v20.20 release coming soon? by arkhan_jg · 2003-12-09 04:36 · Score: 1

You can turn off anti-aliasing at certain font sizes, which is what windows does.

In KDE, you can set it right in the font configuration panel (just exclude what feels right, excluding 8pt to 12pt is what windows does)

Not so sure of how to do it with gnome, but you could try putting something in ~/.fonts.conf, or look up how to control AA using xft, specifically, disabling it at specific font sizes.

http://thesapphirecat.iwarp.com/present/program/ xf t.html

The other thing worth checking is whether you have freetype compiled with the bytecode interpreter or not. That is patent encumbered, so is usually turned off. Personally, I don't like it on my LCD screen, but I know a lot of people love it. Redhat ships with it disabled, so you could try turning it on and see what you think.
(http://lists.linux.org.au/archives/tlug/2 003-Nove mber/msg00061.html)

As far as fonts go, use either your windows fonts, the free truetype web core fonts, (http://corefonts.sourceforge.net/) or the bistream-vera-fonts. All the rest of the fonts on linux are questionable quality.

--
Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
Re:Optometrix v20.20 release coming soon? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 08:39 · Score: 0

My fonts turned into crap after that. The "Linux font thing" IS TOO FUCKING COMPLEX!

Re:Miguel de Icaza = HITLER! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:34 · Score: 0

Surely that's assigning Hitler to Miguel?

What new features ? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:34 · Score: 0

Eh ?

Exchange attachemts supported? (TNEF Mime types) by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:34 · Score: 1, Interesting

Please tell me that Exchange/Outlook encoded attachments work now!

Evolution is driving me nuts. While I lothe Exchange, and there are tools for dealing with Exchange (TNEF) attachments, they are clumsy and have caused me no end of headaches.

I'd even buy a copy of Ximian Connector if that were an option (it isn't; we're using Exchange 5.5x here).

Switching to POP and SMTP means that all attachments from the Exchange server are in TNEF format. Using tools like tnefclean (tnefclean.pl) are causing me headaches.

for single users, not enterprises by axxackall · 2003-12-09 03:37 · Score: 2, Insightful

....I must say, woo-hoo! Evolution is great stuff; it truly is an Outlook killer.

Excuse me, Outlook per se is close to useless without Exchange server. Sure, Evolution works fine with IMAP. It even works with LDAP to keep Contacts (although that piece is not fine).

But how about Calendaring and Tasks being stored on the server *AND* processed with the server? In Outlook when I appoint the meeting ti automatically checks if the attendee is busy or not, and it ch checks it on the server - not in my personal folders.

Without groupware-based calendaring Outlook is useless for most of enterprises.

--

Less is more !

Re:for single users, not enterprises by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:58 · Score: 0

Hmmm... I say the harder it is for some dufus to schedule me into yet more meetings, the better the calendar software.
Re:for single users, not enterprises by Zak3056 · 2003-12-09 04:59 · Score: 2, Informative

But how about Calendaring and Tasks being stored on the server *AND* processed with the server?

Evolution talks to Exchange, though you have to pay Ximian a license fee for the Exchange connector, and still have to pay Microsoft for the Exchange CAL. I find that to be financially not practical at the moment, and don't see how anyone could convince their management to move into such a scenario, but the option IS there.

--
What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
Re:for single users, not enterprises by AntiOrganic · 2003-12-09 05:54 · Score: 1

As already mentioned, the Ximian Connector for Exchange allows you to connect to Exchange servers. But that still requires you to pay inordinate amounts of money for the Exchange licenses, right?

Yeah, the Linux community is working on that, too.
Re:for single users, not enterprises by mikestro · 2003-12-09 06:16 · Score: 1

What about Open Exchange from Suse Linux?
Re:for single users, not enterprises by El+Gringo+Loco · 2003-12-09 06:24 · Score: 1

What about Sun's Java System Calendar Server? http://wwws.sun.com/software/products/calendar_srv r/home_calendar.html "Provides integrated web-based client and support for multiple rich clients including Ximian Evolution and Microsoft Outlook"
Re:for single users, not enterprises by bravenight · 2003-12-09 06:33 · Score: 1

In a small enterprise this can actually still be managedwell enough. When you make a meeting in evolution, you can email invitations. And if your coworkers actually respond, than there, and your, calanders get updated. Certainly not as good as a centralized server, but functional. There is also SuSE's OpenExchange server, which seems to be comming close to being not only an excellent replacement for MS Exchange, but an improvement in many aspects. In our trials our biggest complaint was in trying to customize. We found no way to adjust the look, even colors and such, so that it blended better with our site (I woudn't begrudge SuSE tagging on the copyright stuff in the footer, or even a little SuSE OpenExhange logo somewhere, but not everyone wants a green site), and making other customizations was a bit difficult. But I digress. Looking to the future, Novell now owns Ximian, and is purchasing SuSE. I would think, since lack of a real replacement of the outlook/exchange setup has been a significant complaint from companies I've worked for in switching to Linux, that getting the next versions of OpenExchange and Ximian working together very tightly would be a goal of Novel's. If it works I'd certainly recomend it. Now we just have to hope that Novel stays commited to keeping the parts that are currently open source open source, and to supporting GNU/Linux in a way that benifits them, and us.
Re:for single users, not enterprises by bravenight · 2003-12-09 06:36 · Score: 1

DOH! :use preview:
Sorry about that run-on. Forgot to add <P>'s.
Re:for single users, not enterprises by axxackall · 2003-12-09 09:00 · Score: 1

If it's not financially practilly (like you said and I agree) then is not an option.

--

Less is more !
Re:for single users, not enterprises by axxackall · 2003-12-09 09:09 · Score: 1

and as other mentioned too, that makes that option impractical. Thus it's not an option.

--

Less is more !

Re:My Eventual Evolution by (void*)cheerio · 2003-12-09 03:40 · Score: 0, Offtopic

The trick to evolution wouldn't be to survive on slashdot.org, per se, but to rather reproduce using/with slashdot.org.

Re:Miguel de Icaza = HITLER! by ambisinistral · 2003-12-09 03:40 · Score: 1

Umm... actually he assigned Hitler to Miguel.

--

deserve's got nothing to do with it...

Wohoo, congrats to the developers by malsdavis · 2003-12-09 03:40 · Score: 1

Congrats to the developers. Personally, I think Evolution is about the most professional Open Source Application around.

Re:Wohoo, congrats to the developers by spacecowboy420 · 2003-12-09 04:11 · Score: 1

Unless you compare it to thunderbird. Junk filters, all I want is junk filters. Why can't they just put adaptive junk filters in evolution. Thunderbird has had it from the beginning.

--
ymmv
Re:Wohoo, congrats to the developers by lisany · 2003-12-09 04:16 · Score: 1

I've created my own rules with Evolution which seem to catch 98 out of 100 spams. With a little effort you could write your own rules.
Re:Wohoo, congrats to the developers by spacecowboy420 · 2003-12-09 04:43 · Score: 1

I know I could. I don't want to maintain rules, this was my point on thunderbird. If it is junk, I click the little junk icon, and voila' no more junk from that guy versus creating a new, flawed rule based on subject or some other word. Writing spam rules is tedious and does not replace adaptive filters.

--
ymmv
Re:Wohoo, congrats to the developers by mrjive · 2003-12-09 07:56 · Score: 1

Evolution + bogofilter = spam-free bliss

--
If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten. -George Carlin

Feature Request by timothyf · 2003-12-09 03:44 · Score: 4, Insightful

http://www.research.ibm.com/remail/

In my opinion, borrowing ideas like that for a groupware/email client would be what distinguishes Evolution from the competition.

Oh, and pretty please make a Winders version for those of us that are stuck here? :)

Re:Too bad ... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:45 · Score: 0

too bad the original post didn't even include 5 words describing what evolutio does...

Re:KDE port. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:46 · Score: 0

Now that Sun has publicly admitted that its Gnome Desktop is a failure

Link please.

Ximian and Eazel have both gone out of business

Link please.

Kernel numbering! it's a devel release! by luge · 2003-12-09 03:48 · Score: 3, Informative

Since the article makes this totally,totally unclear, this is not a stable release. It's a totally devel, in many ways broken, release. Could eat your mail, pets, family, etc. So only download/install if you are brave. Or stupid. Or something. The stable release will go out with GNOME 2.6 in the spring, or at least that is the current plan. Hope that clarifies...

--

IAAL,BIANLY

Re:My Eventual Evolution by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:49 · Score: 0

Well it must be possible, there are trolls and power crazed mods at other sites as well. Since Slashdot eats it's any who try to leave the flock, they must be offspring.

Built-in spam filtering? by FattMattP · 2003-12-09 03:49 · Score: 3, Interesting

Does anyone know if there are plans to add built-in spam filtering like Mozilla has? Right now everyone says to use spamassassin but that doesn't work for some people that I know that user Evolution. They want something built in to the client end.

--
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y

Re:Built-in spam filtering? by NT_blows · 2003-12-09 04:06 · Score: 2, Insightful

Huh? Run Spamassassin as a daemon (ie spamd) for speed and use Evolution's builtin filtering tool to define a pipe to shell command filter (ie spamc -c) with the rule being if does not return 0, either move to your spam folder or just delete it. Make sure bayesian filtering is enabled in spamassassin, do some training via sa-learn, add you will have great spam filtering with very low overhead.
Re:Built-in spam filtering? by FattMattP · 2003-12-09 04:33 · Score: 4, Informative

Run Spamassassin as a daemon (ie spamd) for speed and use Evolution's builtin filtering tool to define a pipe to shell command filter (ie spamc -c) with the rule being if does not return 0, either move to your spam folder or just delete it. Make sure bayesian filtering is enabled in spamassassin, do some training via sa-learn, add you will have great spam filtering with very low overhead.
They need something intergrated into the application so that they can click a "spam" or "not spam" button and/or change spam settings from within Evolution. See Mozilla Mail to see what I am talking about. Your solution still requires interacting with the shell (something these users don't know how to do) to change settings or train the bayesian filter. Right now I already have spamassassin checking mail on the server side.

--
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
Re:Built-in spam filtering? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 05:42 · Score: 0

Thanks

This saves my day.

For other spam tools have a look at http://all-technology.com/eigenpolls/spamsoftware/ index.php

pgp by SupahVee · 2003-12-09 03:49 · Score: 3, Interesting

The real question I have for the developers is this: when will we ever see decent PGP/GPG support for Evolution? It's hand-down the most feature complete email app available for GNU/Linux, and yet, still can't do PGP even half as good as Pine, Kmail, Enigmail. The only time I get a PGP'ed email that I can read is ONLY if it was sent by another evolution client, which sounds more like the behavior I would expect from LookOut. Hell, the only way I've gotten decent GPG support for Evo is to have Pine reading a folder where I filter encrypted messages into, Pine reads them just fine, Evolution can't. I've looked through all the features that will supposedly be in the 2.0 release, and nowhere is there mentioned any fix of the PGP handling. I don't pretend to know more than the developers, and I'm sure there may be reasons why they've chosen to leave this feature broken, but if every other OSS Email project can nail it, why can't they?

--
"See, we plan ahead! That way, we never have to do anything now."

Re:pgp by 0x0d0a · 2003-12-09 03:54 · Score: 2, Interesting

I've yet to see any client do PGP right.

Mutt comes close, but doesn't have the ability to "opportunistically encrypt" messages -- i.e. encrypt the message if a key for the destination email address can be found, otherwise not.

Using this would help encourage people to use email encryption.

--
May we never see th
Re:pgp by daveaitel · 2003-12-09 04:42 · Score: 1

Mozilla has this feature. Actually, Mozilla is the hands-down best e-mail client available now. It seems to scale up to a huge workload, features spam filtering (killer app) and implements most of the virtual-folder features that set evolution apart...and it does GPG correctly via Enigmail.
Why do people still use Evolution? -dave
Re:pgp by derF024 · 2003-12-09 07:13 · Score: 1

The only time I get a PGP'ed email that I can read is ONLY if it was sent by another evolution client,

Or mutt, or Mozilla/Thunderbird, or any other client that supports PGP s/mime. That's what Evolution, mutt or mozilla support, not that inline pgp crap that kmail does.

I don't pretend to know more than the developers, and I'm sure there may be reasons why they've chosen to leave this feature broken, but if every other OSS Email project can nail it, why can't they?

I'm not sure why evolution doesn't understand both methods, like kmail does, but it's kmail and pine that need to get with the program. Agypten (sp?) is supposed to fix kmail's s/mime support, but I have yet to get it to build on my system.
Re:pgp by StrawberryFrog · 2003-12-09 07:38 · Score: 1

Mutt comes close, but doesn't have the ability to "opportunistically encrypt" messages

http://enigmail.mozdev.org/help.html

From the options help:"Encrypt+sign if possible: encrypt and sign by default, but do not notify user on failure, and send unencrypted instead. Encryption must succeed for all recipients, not just some. (This option may also be set in the preferences."

--
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
Re:pgp by Just+Some+Guy · 2003-12-09 08:00 · Score: 1

It's hand-down the most feature complete email app available for GNU/Linux...
It's nice, but nothing matches Gnus for versatility - nothing. Name one other email/news reader that supports PGP and PGP/MIME (both correctly), detailed per-folder configuration, automatic scoring (it analyzes your reading habits to highlight posts it thinks you may find interesting), pretty much any email server type in existence, runs almost everywhere (if it's got Emacs, then it has Gnus), and is user-extensible in a built-in AI language.
I've been using it for years. I keep trying Evolution, Kmail, Thunderbird, etc. but I've yet to find anything remotely as powerful.

--
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Re:pgp by lordholm · 2003-12-09 09:14 · Score: 1

OpenPGP-signed and encrypted e-mail work fine between Apple Mail.app and Evolution. I know, I do that all the time.

--
"Civis Europaeus sum!"
Re:pgp by Mr.+Firewall · 2003-12-09 20:55 · Score: 1

The real question I have for the developers is this: when will we ever see decent PGP/GPG support for Evolution? [snip] I don't pretend to know more than the developers, and I'm sure there may be reasons why they've chosen to leave this feature broken, but if every other OSS Email project can nail it, why can't they?

I had that same question for them a couple of years ago, and I asked them on their developers' mailing list. The reason is because one of their developers has an attitude the size of Jupiter regarding in-line encryption. So the answer to your question is probably "never."

But that doesn't bother me any. KMail does EVERYTHING I need an email client to do, and does it well. And it's light-years ahead of Evo in the way it handles threaded messages too.

This is all interesting news to me, but I doubt that I'll ever actually use Evo.

--
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth gets you modded -1 Troll

Re:Too bad ... by Daengbo · 2003-12-09 03:50 · Score: 1

I love Evolution. Unfotunately, it hasn't supported my second language. Hopefully this:

We have also untangled the GUI quite a bit making the components (mail, tasks, etc) more individual and improving the usage experience for the user.

means that it soon will.

--
Put identity in the browser.

Reboot is not an option by tepples · 2003-12-09 03:54 · Score: 1

Evo/*NIX will run on the same existing x86 boxes that Outlook/Windows runs on.

But will it run within Windows, such as on Cygwin? Most users do not want to have to reboot to Knoppix just to get their e-mail. And does XFree86 support all the video cards that come with a bundled Windows driver disc? Mandrake 9.2 RC1's XFree86 Radeon driver was "unable to find any usable modes" on my ATI Radeon 9000 card.

Re:Reboot is not an option by derF024 · 2003-12-09 06:36 · Score: 1

But will it run within Windows, such as on Cygwin?

It would, if the rest of gnome was in cygwin. It's not, but I'm sure you can build it easily enough. Cygwin really isn't easy enough for your average desktop user, though.

Most users do not want to have to reboot to Knoppix just to get their e-mail. And does XFree86 support all the video cards that come with a bundled Windows driver disc?

I'll ask you the reverse question, when will windows support half the stuff debian does out of the box? Windows XP can't find most ethernet cards or video cards and fall back to no network, 640x480 256 color VGA. Windows XP couldn't even find my intel etherexpress pro, and I was forced to burn the drivers to CD from the intel website on my linux machine. Debian, out of the box, supports just about any video card and ethernet card out there.
Re:Reboot is not an option by jeffphil · 2003-12-09 07:28 · Score: 1

No Evolution yet, but getting closer by the months to being able to run under cygwin
http://cygnome.sourceforge.net/

Try "Evolution 1.5 beta has been released" by Don+Cron · 2003-12-09 03:54 · Score: 0, Redundant

This is not the stable, finished 1.5 release.
Perhaps the subject or text of the original post could mention that.

-Don

Re:Try "Evolution 1.5 beta has been released" by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 04:21 · Score: 0

There will be no "stable" 1.5. That will be 2.0. Please read up on OSS versioning tactics.

less like Outlook, strange UI things by mydigitalself · 2003-12-09 03:57 · Score: 4, Insightful

one of the things i've noticed with the (dear me) evolution of Evolution is that when it originally reared its head it was almost a complete copy of Outlook from a UI point of view.

the version that comes with XD2 seems to have begun a move away from Outlook. and i'm debating in my mind if this is a good thing or not. surely the "switch"-like campaign would favour apps that looked and behaved more like MS apps for the sake of familiarity when moving across to a new environment. obviously the bad side of this is the whole innovation-stiffling argument that if one just mimicks Microsoft behaviour, what benefit other than cost is being added?

anyway, i would be in a better position to speak once actually having given it a test - but the UI on those screenshots seems a lot LESS intuitive than i've seen in previous releases. a few examples:

Calendar

it may seem obvious to a geek, but what is "Local"? and how does that differ from "On This Computer" in the tasks screenshot? also, what the heck is the "Component" button at the bottom there? and why do the buttons at the bottom there look so ugle. the ones on Tasks have icons, those don't. basically inconsistent UI.

i understand that this is a dev. release, but it seems silly to me to ignore UI in a odd release while developing the functionality and then maybe coming back to it in the following release. the way a user interacts with software should be considered throughout a development cycle as interaction changes can often lead to large programming changes.

Re:less like Outlook, strange UI things by Coryoth · 2003-12-09 05:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

As other people have pointed out, this is an unstable development release, not a polished final product. I suspect the varied labelling is due to people coding up different components and putting temporary placeholder strings in for now (if the "Component" isn't a give away placeholder string I don't know what is) while they get the features working. I think you'll find a lot of that will be cleaned up for Evolution 2.0

Jedidiah

--
Craft Beer Programming T-shirts
Re:less like Outlook, strange UI things by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 05:44 · Score: 1, Informative

The shell--the overall interface that allows you to navigate between components and folders and whatnot--has been rewritten for 1.5/2.0 to allow the components to be used as standalone applications, and to simplify the code. That said, the shell's UI is under intense change. It is hardly being ignored:

* The component buttons mockup
* Addressbook UI thoughts

Those are discussions from this month alone.

~ac

P.S. The 'Component' button is a stand-in, and the use of 'Local' instead of 'On This Computer' was probably in an old build. I believe current builds, including 1.5 use 'On This Computer' everywhere. This is a development release after all.
Re:less like Outlook, strange UI things by jpr · 2003-12-09 06:01 · Score: 1

We actually need to update those screenshots, they are several weeks old now. There is no "Component" button now, there are buttons with icons identifying mail/calendar/tasks/addressbook. "Local" is no longer used, its "On This Computer".
Re:less like Outlook, strange UI things by Spoing · 2003-12-10 00:52 · Score: 1

The reason the buttons look different in the two screen shots is that the theme for the desktop was different in each one.
For a promo shot, the same theme should be used, but this has to do with polish on the web site and nothing to do with polish on the app itself.

--
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.

Re:I wanted to... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 03:59 · Score: 0

Well, first off, there's nothing wrong with having a local POP or IMAP server.
And mailspools are just trouble anyway. I really recommend using .maildir if you get as much mail/spam as I do.

But anyway, if you don't want to connect to a mail server using a standard protocol, you just have to point Mozilla at the mail spool.
Create a folder in local folders, remove the mozilla spool it creates, symlink it to your system spool.

Things that might get in the way. Mozilla uses index files to its own spools to improve efficiency. Those have to be removed or they will get out of sync with an externally modified spool. ln -s /dev/null FolderSpool.msf should work.

Of course, instead of going through all that you *could* just install courier imap. Oh, and switch postfix to deliver to .maildir - spools are ancient concept and don't scale at all.

Where's the junk button? by bobaferret · 2003-12-09 04:01 · Score: 4, Interesting

I think the most important feature that is currently missing is the spam filtering. Everyone else has it, why doesn't evolution? Use the code from mozilla if you have to.

wish I had the time to do it myself.
-jj-

Re:Where's the junk button? by fea · 2003-12-09 04:19 · Score: 2, Informative

you can easily add spamassassin as a filter and it would probably be better than anything that would be hard coded into evolution. I already to this and route the output to a "spam" folder. It is in the evolution FAQ on the ximian web site
Re:Where's the junk button? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 08:13 · Score: 0

Spam filtering should be done at the server side. I access my email from many different clients on many different computers. I believe most technically-inclined people do the same. For us, client-side filtering is not really useful.

Yes by Synn · 2003-12-09 04:01 · Score: 5, Informative

Email their support and they'll send you a 30 day trial key.

I personally use it to connect to our Exchange 2003 server and it works quite well. Your company's Exchange server will need OWA support enabled however.

Perhaps Microsoft holds a patent or two by tepples · 2003-12-09 04:04 · Score: 1

I can connect it to Exchange server? But you will charge me money for this?

What makes you think Ximian was able to do it with no cost? It's rather likely that Microsoft may hold DMCA rights, patents, or barratry rights[1] against anybody who implements Exchange protocol without its permission and a policy of not granting such permission without a royalty payment in return.

[1] "Barratry rights" aren't recognized in statute; they are created de facto when courts refuse to do anything to prevent a wealthy incumbent from bringing frivolous lawsuits against a less wealthy upstart.

Re:My Eventual Evolution by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 04:07 · Score: 0

Sorry, but the universe will not be in existance long enough for you to 'evolve' into anything beyond an amoeba.

Re:KDE port. (Socre:5, Ingishtful) by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 04:09 · Score: 0

Ingishtful ? Perhaps you should abandon your legacy Microsoft spell checker.

What is "X"? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 04:09 · Score: 0

This is how [open source] software will blow X out of the water.

Huh? I thought X was an open source program.

Re:What is "X"? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 04:33 · Score: 0

X == variable

Re:Exchange attachemts supported? (TNEF Mime types by riggwelter · 2003-12-09 04:09 · Score: 1

It's targetted for version 1.5.2.

--
Listening for the sound of the coming rain...

OT - Re:OK this is lame but..... by DarthWiggle · 2003-12-09 04:13 · Score: 1

I'm from Ohio! ....

(Red vs. Blue reference, you scoundrels!)

"...this gigantic undertaking." by Apostata · 2003-12-09 04:26 · Score: 0, Redundant

This is a development version...a point-release not meant for stable systems.

The headline makes it sound as if Ximian has just found an alternative to insulin for chrissake.

--

This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker

I agree by crimguy · 2003-12-09 04:30 · Score: 3, Informative

Thunderbird has many things going for it as a pure email/nntp app that Evolution doesn't (yet).
1) Spam controls need to be built into Evolution.
2) Customizable icons. Evolution's UI is too big and wastes desktop space. It also looks a bit too Gnome 1.4 . . .
3) Threaded messages don't work particularly well.
4) Pilot syncing is hit or miss for most people (I've gotten it working in the past, but not since 1.2).
5) IMAP controls are a bit weird. Either you empty your trash upon exit, or messages marked for deletion stay that way until you do so. Thunderbird is more intuitive, allowing the DEL key to move messages to the Trash folder.
6) Consistency on each platform. It's nice having the same mail app on Windows, Mac linux and PC linux.

The big plus for Evolution is the groupware features, which I never use. It has a nice calendar as well. Better integration with the Gnome desktop would be nice.

Re:I agree by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 04:48 · Score: 0

I think Outlook has had those features since 1997.
Re:I agree by crimguy · 2003-12-09 09:15 · Score: 1

Moron. Other than threaded messages, you're wrong on all fronts. The UI is decent in outlook, though.

KDE-PIM by Jan-Pascal · 2003-12-09 04:31 · Score: 1

The kdepim developers are busy implementing pluggable backends ("resources") for KOrganizer and Kontact. There is stable support for local and remote files and more experimental work on support for Exchange servers. You're more than welcome to submit a patch for WCAP support to kde-pim@kde.org ;-)

Re:Rdesktop by xutopia · 2003-12-09 04:34 · Score: 1

I realize that rDesktop allows you to connect to a windows machine remotelly. But do you know anything that connects to someone's Xfree desktop?

Still no note/memo support?? by macemoneta · 2003-12-09 04:35 · Score: 2, Interesting

After all this time and many releases, there is still no support for notes and memos.

Synchronizing to a PDA will exclude these. This was by far one of the most useful aspects of using Outlook with a PDA (the ability to copy any arbitrary text and load it to a PDA as a memo). I had built large collections of travel directions, software/hardware serial numbers, network IP information, reference data, even Xmas lists using this facility.

I'd rather the Evolution team provide function parity before they spend time glitzing the UI.

--

Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.

Re:Still no note/memo support?? by steveha · 2003-12-09 06:51 · Score: 2, Informative

Hear, hear.

I still use JPilot, even though I use Evolution, because I really want access to my notes.

Evolution developers: please add a "notes" feature to Evolution. Just like on a Palm PDA, the first line of the note should be treated as a title, and there should be a title view for picking a memo. There should be searching within the memo text. The memo feature should use the same character set as the Palm uses so that accents and such display correctly.

P.S. JPilot has plugins, and I'd like to see the same plugins for Evolution. The top one I want to see: Keyring, the password vault.

steveha

--
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely

Re:Exchange attachemts supported? (TNEF Mime types by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 04:38 · Score: 0

It's targetted for version 1.5.2.

Any suggestions in the meantime?

Re:Rdesktop by chefren · 2003-12-09 04:41 · Score: 1

You can run applications remotely with ssh using x11 forwarding.

Re:Too bad ... by Xua · 2003-12-09 04:43 · Score: 1

I had to move from evolution as well. Here is the list (copy/paste from gentoo forum) of the most annoying things that I didn't like in evolution 1.4.1... Maybe in version 1.5 they fixed them but I'll probably stay away from it for a while anyway.

Regexp filters don't support ^ symbol. WTF?
Copying several selected mails from folder to folder places them in a random order in the destination folder. This is just a killer. When I imported emails from KMail just copying mails from KMail folders screwed all mail order.
When source email doesn't have charset I can set it by selecting encoding from View menu. But when I reply to this mail quoted text is in iso-8859-1 regardless of what encoding was selected in View. And the resulting charset is of course UTF-8 which not yet understood by all mail clients and quoted text is unreadable anyway in clients that understand UTF-8.
I got several of my mails split into two halves. WTF, every other mail client I used implements correct reading of mail spool file.
I remember I had other problems, just forgot exactly what.

You're absolutely right. by holygoat · 2003-12-09 04:45 · Score: 1

That was terrible. Go and stand in the corner!

Re:RTFA by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 04:52 · Score: 0

Duh, I did. The screenshot is why I asked the question in the first place.

I said I couldn't find any more information about it.

How does it work? What is used to manage the certs and keys?

Q: usenet newsgroups by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 05:05 · Score: 0

I have experimented with Evolution, but I can't find any way to subscribe to usenet newsgroups, as I can in Mozilla Mail. I have never used Outlook, so I don't know what that does, but since Evolution handles email I was exopecting it to be similar to Mozilla Mail. Is there some command in Evolution to access newsgroups, or is this something it is not intended to be used for?

Thanks.

--- Brian

Re:Q: usenet newsgroups by brank · 2003-12-09 09:58 · Score: 1

Evo 0.x had half-working newsgroup support, but that code became unmaintained and isn't built by default.

Recently, an outside developer has taken over and gotten it mostly functional again, so maybe NNTP will be in future versions of Evo. Search the evolution-hackers archives for Meilof or see here for the latest patch.

--
it's green.

Fools - don't be Novell's beta testers by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 05:11 · Score: 0

Folks this product is going to become commercial Outlook of GNU/Linux.
Why bother helping them debug it before they start charging for it?

Evolution has terrible contact management (plus NO EXPORT feature so if you want to sync it with anything, you're ....ed)
And other features are so-so...Waste of time.

I switched back to Windows desktop, now using a great Windows shareware MUA...

Critic

Version Numbering for Compatibility by Doc+Ruby · 2003-12-09 05:18 · Score: 3, Interesting

As usual, Evolution's team is doing it right, including the version numbering. We can all learn by their good example.

FTA:
"note that there are still some bugs migrating data from 1.4.x to 1.5 and that 1.5 stores its information in ~/.evolution rather than ~/evolution/ so that if you add new info in 1.5 in will not show up in 1.4.x."

Version numbers should reflect the features and requirements of the software they describe. When I worked for Apple, we recognized that software compatibility depended on both data formats/protocols and user interfaces. MAJOR.minor.revision(.patch/build) numbers reflected interoperability: Adding features, either to the GUI or functionality, that the user could notice, incremented the MAJOR number. Changing data/protocol formats, in the filesystem, over the network, or otherwise (any I/O, like sensors), incremented the minor number. Revision numbers reflected internal changes interesting only to developers, likewise any patch or build numbers. Forward/backward compatibility becomes just another feature/requirement, a special case of any given version, never to be expected unless explicitly included.

With that simple scheme, we could tell whether a version wouldn't interoperate with other software in a suite, or might require retraining (eg, glance at documentation) to use. Or fixed a bug. With those rules, we defended rational version numbering in favor of users (and developers) - defended from the insane ravages of marketdroids who were locked in a version numbering "arms race" with the competition.

--

--
make install -not war

Gotta get me summa dat! by CatOne · 2003-12-09 05:21 · Score: 1

I keep forgetting to eat Dinner... if I got Evolution's calendar, I'd never wonder why I was starving at 10 PM again!

Windows Version ? by up2ng · 2003-12-09 05:46 · Score: 0

That would really stick it to MS, and possibly stop a good number of viruses from Outlook/Outlook Express.

Just a thought

--
Success is not the result of spontaneous combustion, you must set yourself on fire.

Re:Too bad ... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 05:47 · Score: 0

Each folder has it's own properties. So mails being stored in a random order is because you didn't turn Threading on for that folder.

Yes, most of your points are valid. Yes, I don't use Evolution. But hey, Evolution is one HUGE reason for Windows users switching to Linux. Leave that be and go your way in finding mutt, pine, thunderbird and what not.

Leave evolution to grab users, which is what it does best. It happens to be an excellent groupware client that many people love, too. So be it.

If it's all about choice, then you got a load of it. Why bitch about another when you're happy with the choice you made?

I don't think so by fishbonez · 2003-12-09 06:03 · Score: 1

I doubt there is very much chance of that. Have you ever taken a look at an Open Source developer? Oh, wait you said forking. Oh Oh. Nevermind.

--
Frylock: That's not a toy!
Master Shake: You say that about everything you own. You should own toys. They're fun.

Resources by theantix · 2003-12-09 06:04 · Score: 1

I think the resources would be a tradeoff. Certainly it would be more of a strain on the core developmental resources, but if Evolution were available on Windows it would enable a more mature and well-known set of plugins. I think projects like MozillaFirebird have benefited greatly from Plugin developers that work on non-Linux platform, which helps make it a better product for Linux people too.

For example: I want to sync my bluetooth phone with a contact manager on my laptop. The phone manual suggests that it only works with Microsoft Outlook, ignoring the great work that the MultiSync project has done for providing that same functionality for Linux. If the same functionality was present on Windows there would be a much higher chance that the phone manual writers would include it as a potential option for synching contacts, gaining more exposure to the Evolution project and helping make it a better program.

There are other reasons for Evolution to support Windows, especially now that it is owned by Novell. If corporations could adopt Evolution cross-platform it would be a great advertising boon for their Linux offerings and reduce the costs of switching platforms which again benefits Novell. As well, a Windows client would generate revenue via the Exchange connector because Windows is a much larger installed base and they have a product should be interesting to any corporation trying to maintain outlook compatibility without shelling out hundreds of dollars for MSOffice if they only need the Email functionality for some of their employees.

--
501 Not Implemented

Re:Too bad ... by Xua · 2003-12-09 06:04 · Score: 1

The thing is I didn't have threading enabled in all of my folders. That's the way I prefer to see my mails, no threading, just the order of how they arrive to me (some people that send me emails don't give a shit about the date on their computer, so I can easily get emails sent in 2010 year, so sorting by date doesn't work).

I never said that evolution has to go away, I just pointed out that a younger mail client KMail already supports some things that evolution fails to do correctly.

Why I tried to find an alternative to KMail? I found that it's the only KDE application that I use, so I thought I'd find a GTK/Gnome replacement... so far I didn't. Guess I'll have to look into mutt.

mobile palmtop sync by Doc+Ruby · 2003-12-09 06:12 · Score: 1

Or my PalmOS 5 Treo600 Smartphone.

--

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make install -not war

Still no "external editor" support by squashed · 2003-12-09 06:34 · Score: 1

Evolution 1.5 still has no support for launching an external editor when composing email! I can't use vi/vim, so I won't use the product.

Agree - Transitions by augustz · 2003-12-09 06:34 · Score: 1

I agree totally.

Once folks are using Firebird/Thunderbird on Windows, and going, hey, this isn't so bad, they are going to be much more likely to switch what is underneath.

If evolution was available for Windows I'd run it in a heartbeat (even pay for the connector), and if enough time passed, and I found I was mostly using Open Source apps, that would make the pitch to switch to a linux OS much easier.

Asking people to rip out windows and make wholesale changes to their apps all at once tough to ask. Get the hooked on the open apps, then give them the open source OS.

Kontact by rmsousa · 2003-12-09 06:41 · Score: 1

I'll just stick with kontact.
1) If I want calendaring, I open Korganizer, same for Kaddressbook and Kmail. Same look n' feel. I can use the bigfuckinggroupware interface only when I want to use them all at the same time.
2) Address Book integration with Messenger (Kopete), which by the way integrates well with the desktop.
3) Oh... did I mention "integrates well with the desktop"?
4)Connect to Kolab server (free), not to a proprietary server via a proprietary plugin.
5) Kparts, baby! I click a .ics file on my web browser, and *magic*: The calendar opens inside the browser window.

Windows drivers are bundled by tepples · 2003-12-09 06:48 · Score: 1

Windows XP can't find most ethernet cards or video cards and fall back to no network, 640x480 256 color VGA.

I said "bundled driver disc." Windows XP does come up to full support once the user has installed the drivers from the included CD. On the other hand, I haven't been able to find GNU/Linux compatible drivers on any of the CDs that I have received bundled with devices.

Debian, out of the box, supports just about any video card

Probably painfully unaccelerated for many of the chipsets. In addition, SANE does not support my scanner at all.

Re:Windows drivers are bundled by derF024 · 2003-12-09 07:04 · Score: 1

I said "bundled driver disc." Windows XP does come up to full support once the user has installed the drivers from the included CD.

Haven't bought a computer in a while, have you? They don't normally come with any CDs anymore. All the software is already installed, with a hidden "restore" partition somewhere in the beginning of the disk. Upgrade the disk or feel the need to format and reinstall windows and you don't get any of your software or drivers.

On the other hand, I haven't been able to find GNU/Linux compatible drivers on any of the CDs that I have received bundled with devices.

That's because all the free drivers are already bundled with distro install disk. If linux supports it at all, it'll probably work out of the box.

Debian, out of the box, supports just about any video card

Probably painfully unaccelerated for many of the chipsets.

Unaccelerated, but not painful. I've been running my radeon based thinkpad with the drivers that debian shipped with for a bit over a year. Xinerama works well, i get full 24 bit color and the maximum resolution of the LCD and CRT it's plugged into. That's more than I can say for the radeon windows drivers (which give the aforementioned 640x480 256 color display until you can get to ATI's website to update.)
Re:Windows drivers are bundled by tepples · 2003-12-09 07:30 · Score: 1

Haven't bought a computer in a while, have you?

No, but I have bought a video card that came with a CD. I have bought a printer that came with a CD. I have bought a scanner that came with a CD. Heck, even a store-bought mouse for crying out loud will come with a CD nowadays. All these CDs come with Windows drivers; some come with Mac drivers; none come with GNU/Linux drivers.

That's because all the free drivers are already bundled with distro install disk. If linux supports it at all, it'll probably work out of the box.

But then GNU/Linux users are likely to receive peripherals with which Linux does not work out of the box, either as a mistaken purchase or as a gift from a family member. And even where there are drivers, they don't always work right. Case in point: the Canon driver that came with Mandrake thought my 600dpi S520 was a 360dpi printer; the test page came out way too small, only covering 60 percent of the page in each direction.

Unaccelerated, but not painful.

Unaccelerated means that dialog box painting, web page scrolling, and Flash animations will run like molasses. Yes, Flash animations are important to novice users, many of whom frequent Flash portals such as killfrog, newgrounds, and the like. If painting and scrolling are slow, then "this computer is slower than the one that came with Windows."

That's more than I can say for the radeon windows drivers (which give the aforementioned 640x480 256 color display until you can get to ATI's website to update.)

Can't Windows XP users get by with a "generic VESA 2" driver? I know Windows XP is running in a VESA mode because 640x480 in 8-bit is a VESA mode, not a VGA mode.
Re:Windows drivers are bundled by AstroDrabb · 2003-12-09 15:20 · Score: 2, Informative

Unaccelerated means that dialog box painting, web page scrolling, and Flash animations will run like molasses. Yes, Flash animations are important to novice users, many of whom frequent Flash portals such as killfrog, newgrounds, and the like. If painting and scrolling are slow, then "this computer is slower than the one that came with Windows."
Debian is based on older code. Fedora Core 1 supports my Radeon out-of-the-box with 2D and 3D acceleration. ATI does release specs on their cards. They just keep a few things proprietary. If you want that little extra that ATI keeps, you can download their binary driver. NVidia on the other hand does not realease specs, though their proprietary drivers are top notch IMO and work great under Linux.

Also there are two types of accelration. 2D and 3D. If you are using Debian based on older code, you may not have 3D acceleration, but you will still have full 2D acceleration, so your flash, web pages, dialog boxes, etc will *not* be slow. In fact you won't even notice that there is no 3D acceleration under an older code base such as Debian until you try to run something like Tux Racer. If you want that 3D acceleration, use Fedora or SuSE. The Radeon on my laptop has very fast 2D and 3D and the GeForce 3 Ti 500 on my desktop has very, very fast 2D and 3D with the NVidia binaries, both under Linux.

--
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
Re:Windows drivers are bundled by AigariusDebian · 2003-12-09 20:37 · Score: 1

If you have a very new hardware (newer then your OS), then you should upgrade either your OS or it's drivers.

In the case of Debain, this means upgrading to testing or unstable.

There is a rumor that Debian 'unstable' branch is as unstable as the stable branch of RedHat, but I cann't confirm that, as I haven't used RedHat in ages. :)
I just can say that Debian 'unstable' is stable, while 'stable' is simply rock solid.
Re:Windows drivers are bundled by AstroDrabb · 2003-12-10 00:58 · Score: 1

Debian is great. However for a desktop with newer hardware, it falls short. SID still doesn't have XFree 4.3.0! I need XFree 4.3.0 for my graphics card, also, XFree 4.3.0 has all the XFont changes that finally give an X desktop pretty fonts. These two things are want turned me away from Debian. Fedora Core as well as Red Hat AS 2.1/3 have all been very stable for me. It is pretty unfair to compare Debian stable, based on much older/mature code on something more current. Red Hat AS 2.1 and Red Hat 7.3 are both as stable as Debian Stable from my experience. Though agian, I would not use any of them as my desktop.

--
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison

Workbench! by chegosaurus · 2003-12-09 06:58 · Score: 1

Nice to see the Amiga window borders on the S/MIME screenshot! But it will take more than that to pry me away from kmail.

Re:Rdesktop by GeneralTao · 2003-12-09 07:00 · Score: 1

XFree is networked by design. Remote X desktops have been around since the very start.

You can do 2 things: you can start applications individually or you can start an entire remote desktop session.

You'd have to RTFM to understand X display mechanisms. For remote desktop, try starting here:
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/XDMCP-HOWTO/

Good luck!

--
--- Tao

ehr, am I reading freshmeat right now? by flok · 2003-12-09 07:30 · Score: 2, Insightful

It really puzzles me why this evolution-program is announced on slashdot.
Ok, the linux-kernel I can understand, but some program clearly not every linux-user is using? This isn't freshmeat.net!

-- Flok 3.0.2

--

www.vanheusden.com - home of Multitail, HTTPing, CoffeeSaint, EntropyBroker, rsstail, bsod, listener, nagcon, nagi

Re:ehr, am I reading freshmeat right now? by swordgeek · 2003-12-09 08:58 · Score: 1

Um...where in the word "slashdot" do you see "linux and only linux?"

Aside from a firewall, I don't use Linux much at all. I couldn't care less about every single dev. snapshot of the next minor revision of the Linux kernel. 2.6.0.pre6-through-10? WHO CARES?

But I can happily ignore it.

This, on the other hand, is more significant for a few reasons.

1) It's an actual release (not a beta or dev snapshot)
2) It affects people outside the Linux world (us Sun-using folks, for instance)
3) Applications are more relevant to most people than kernel revisions.

So...sigh.

--

"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban

Request for Version 1.6 by syntap · 2003-12-09 07:34 · Score: 1

Someone please figure out a straightforward way to get Outlook data (email, contact info, calendar info) into Evolution, or better yet have 1.6 provide direct import functionality. It is the only thing (aside form lack of an Outlook Notes equivilent in Evolution) keeping me on my Windows desktop.

Yeah I've tried comma-delimited files, porting mail to Netscape and then to Evolution, etc but nothing works completely right.

I'd love to move to Evolution, but I can't let ten years of legacy emails, contact info, etc go. I'd need to stick with Windows to access all that stuff.

OT Congratulations by Lemmeoutada+Collecti · 2003-12-09 07:48 · Score: 1

Congratulations, you have passed the test and proven yourself worthy of SlashDot. Your demonstration of geek thinking is a credit to all us geeks :)

--

You can have it fast, accurate, or pretty. Pick any 2.

Contrary to article, Ev1.5 is not out for XD2 by Kashif+Shaikh · 2003-12-09 08:20 · Score: 1

from article:

"Snapshots are also available through Red Carpet for 5 platforms including SuSE 9 and RedHat 9."

I have Ximian Desktop2 for RH9, and Evolution 1.5 is NOT out on Evolution Snapshot or Development Snapshot Redcarpet2 channels. The latest is ev1.4.5.

Has anyone got Ev. for XD2 yet or know where to get it(without building sources)?

Kashif

Re:Contrary to article, Ev1.5 is not out for XD2 by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 13:34 · Score: 0

If you are using Red Carpet, it's under the "Available Software" tab. Search for "evolution1.5" in the listing.

Cheers

Tasks categories doesnt sync under evolution by Oxide · 2003-12-09 09:03 · Score: 0

One thing good about outlook is that it is able to sync the tasks / appointments categories from my palm. I couldnt get evolution 1.4 to sync the categories; has anyone managed to do so ?

Why I keep using Evolution even though it sucks by X-Nc · 2003-12-09 09:25 · Score: 1

I've been using Evolution since v1.0.something and I will likely keep using it in the forseeable future. This in spite of the fact that with every new version it sucks more and more. I'm running 1.4.3 on my RH9 box and will probably upgrade whenever I get to FC1 and there's rpms for it. With every new version of Evolution it gets closer and closer to Outlook. I really hate Outlook. There are so many things that worked wonderfully in previous versions of Evolution that just don't work anymore (using ~/.signature instead of that idiotic signature editor thing... keyboard combination to incert a test file into the body of an email... mouse option in the To: field of a message to remove the address... email editor/composer that didn't have so many input errors... there's much, much more but I can't remember it all off-hand).

The reason I will continue to use it is that the spell checking abilities are unreal. I can't spell words with more than one letter (as you can probably see from this comment) and of all the spell checking tools/utilities in any other app pale compaired to that in Evolution. So, I'll keep dealing with the idiocy of "Ovolution" (O standing for Outlook) as long as the spell checker works and I'm still at least able to read/write email.

--
-- If I actually could spell I'd have spelled it right in the first place.

Fails during build by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 09:29 · Score: 0

OrigTree module doesn't seem to be properly
installed

Where can I find XML::Parser::Style::OrigTree ?
Don't know what it is, but cpan.org/google doesn't know anything about it.

I would like to try Evolution 1.5, but at this point I can't :(

Re:Fails during build by brank · 2003-12-09 09:47 · Score: 1

This is installed with intltools. Upgrade to 0.28 and make sure OrigTree.pm is OK.

--
it's green.

:D by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 10:13 · Score: 0

Thank you very much !

Another Feature Request by Grummet · 2003-12-09 11:02 · Score: 1

Actual, honest to god, Japanese that works!
As it stands Evolution cannot even READ s-jis, or properly display jis.

These are standards.

It doesn't even seem to work in a Japanese locale. sheesh.

What's going on with the names of the developers? by crush · 2003-12-09 11:44 · Score: 1

There appears to be some serious funkiness in the names of developers with (presumably) accents in their names in the list of contributors

A beautiful looking site otherwise and a great project, but this looks unprofessional

Re:Too bad ... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-12-09 12:46 · Score: 0

- we just pass the string you enter to regcomp() and regexec(), if ^ doesn't work then it's because your glibc doesn't support it.

(btw, works for me)

- yes, this is annoying and I'd like to fix it when I get the chance.

- this is fixed in 1.5

- sounds like your mbox is a mix of BSD and Solaris mbox formats - they are not compatable. BSD spools delimit messages with a line starting with "From " (anything after that is unspecified). This means that any line in a message that begins with "From " must be escaped.

In the Solaris format, the format changes. Now, instead of escaping "From " lines that are parts of messages, they add a Content-Length header which is completely on crack.

anyways, seem more info on http://www.jwz.org/doc/content-length.html

- in the future, if you have bug reports - adding them to bugzilla.ximian.com is far more useful for you and us than complaining about them on Slashdot where we might not even see your problems.

Reboot doesn't NEED to be an option. by lelnet · 2003-12-09 17:30 · Score: 1

Why reboot? With this, you can now just not use Windoze at all. :)

I hear _so_ many people telling me that the only reason they can't go to a Linux-only desktop is because their company runs a mail and calendar system that can only talk to Outlook...an Outlook killer would do tremendous things for desktop Linux.

Of course, not having delved into the intimate details, I don't know how viable an Outlook-killer this system actually is...

Re:Exchange attachemts supported? (TNEF Mime types by riggwelter · 2003-12-09 21:11 · Score: 1

If your incoming mail server is an Exchange box, use IMAP - that way the TNEF is decoded on the server

--
Listening for the sound of the coming rain...

Re:Exchange attachemts supported? (TNEF Mime types by Spoing · 2003-12-10 00:07 · Score: 1

If your incoming mail server is an Exchange box, use IMAP - that way the TNEF is decoded on the server

Thanks! I'm getting login verification errors using IMAP with NTLM / SPA authentication (required for Exchange?), though there are some notes on this and it looks 'solveable'.

--
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.

Importing Mozilla Mail? by joeljkp · 2003-12-10 02:19 · Score: 1

Can Evolution import my Mozilla Mail yet? I've tried the (ancient) Debian Woody version, and that feature wasn't available.

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Evolution 1.5 has Been Released

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