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I clicked on the links to WASTE that /. has so generously provided, and I found out that both the Download Page and the Security Page of WASTE can't be accessed!

I wonder if WASTE have been removed from nullsoft.com, since nullsoft is owned by AOL?

Both the Download Page and the Security Page aren't accessible.

This bring the question of whether WASTE have been removed from nullsoft.com, or not?

Both the Download Page and the Security Page aren't accessible.

This bring the question of whether WASTE have been removed from nullsoft.com, or not?

WASTE DOWNLOAD PAGE

If anyone successfully got to that page, can you please share with us info on how to dl WASTE ?

Thanks !

It's official...

Much in the way that AOL forced Nullsoft to pull their nascent "Gnutella" technology when it first came out, it appears AOL has once again forced Nullsoft to yank distribution of their "Waste" secure P2P-based file sharing and messaging software.

Slashdot.org announced the product this morning, and by afternoon it is officially gone from the Nullsoft site.

Fortunately, the Internet routes around censorship and the software is still available here (along with an interesting chat forum on the subject) and, undoubtedly, in other places around the net.

It's likely that the source and binaries for this much-needed freedom-inducing GPLed software will be making an appearance on a freesite at some point in the not-so-distant-future.

Yes folks, history, once again, repeats itself.
I guess it just shows to go you, that when it comes to kick-ass software Justin Frankel is still the man!

Probably the same company that made the PIMP (and afterwards the SuperPIMP) install system...

And let's not forget the program packass.exe, which creates a big .ASS archive, similar to a tarball. No, I'm not kidding. Check it out.
Buncha hooligans.

Ignoring the fact that he just posted the text from one of the links in the original article.. if you go to his first WASTE Description link, you'll find that he just neglected to use full paths.

download available
download source
GPL license
more information about network architecture
more information about security

Ignoring the fact that he just posted the text from one of the links in the original article.. if you go to his first WASTE Description link, you'll find that he just neglected to use full paths.

download available
download source
GPL license
more information about network architecture
more information about security

Ignoring the fact that he just posted the text from one of the links in the original article.. if you go to his first WASTE Description link, you'll find that he just neglected to use full paths.

download available
download source
GPL license
more information about network architecture
more information about security

Ignoring the fact that he just posted the text from one of the links in the original article.. if you go to his first WASTE Description link, you'll find that he just neglected to use full paths.

download available
download source
GPL license
more information about network architecture
more information about security

Ignoring the fact that he just posted the text from one of the links in the original article.. if you go to his first WASTE Description link, you'll find that he just neglected to use full paths.

download available
download source
GPL license
more information about network architecture
more information about security

+4 RTFA! more like it.

And I blockquote:

WASTE is a software product and protocol that enables secure distributed communication for small (on the order of 10-50 nodes) trusted groups of users.

Going through the documentation, I found this:

From here

Note: It might be worth implementing WASTE using a subset of SSL, to avoid any concern of flaws in this protocol. Feedback is gladly accepted on any potential weaknesses of the negotiation. We have spent a decent amount of time analyzing this, and although we have found a few things that are not ideal (i.e. if you know public keys from a network, you can sniff some traffic and do an offline dictionary attack on the network name/ID), but overall it seems decent. The current implementation probably needs work, too.

Which suggests to me that it isn't worth rushing out and developing application with *just* yet, until further reviews have occured (and the protocol has matured/evolved).

Users who have Winamp because it came bundled with other software usually do not have the Full install. The Netscape 7 package comes with (I believe) Standard.

Winamp.com's own comparisons do not mention which package includes Vorbis.

• Winamp 2.9 package options
• Winamp 3 package options

Users who have Winamp because it came bundled with other software usually do not have the Full install. The Netscape 7 package comes with (I believe) Standard.

Winamp.com's own comparisons do not mention which package includes Vorbis.

• Winamp 2.9 package options
• Winamp 3 package options

Users who have Winamp because it came bundled with other software usually do not have the Full install. The Netscape 7 package comes with (I believe) Standard.

Winamp.com's own comparisons do not mention which package includes Vorbis.

• Winamp 2.9 package options
• Winamp 3 package options

Users who have Winamp because it came bundled with other software usually do not have the Full install. The Netscape 7 package comes with (I believe) Standard.

Winamp.com's own comparisons do not mention which package includes Vorbis.

• Winamp 2.9 package options
• Winamp 3 package options

I'm listening to the anti-aircraft fire etc. right now, pretty scary.

He just said "On my orders.." *shivers*

I can't begin to imagine where this might take us..
19

The Beastie Boys released a song (mp3 link) relating to some of this insanity, it's a decent track. Relevant links: Link1

Win Without War

True Majority - Democracy in Action

Helpful Stuff

Because copying music isn't stealing. I have the right to make copies of music that I own, which is great if I want to listen to something on an MP3 player, make a mix CD for my car, etc. Now sharing those copies is stealing... except that it's not, always. Music in the public domain, or which the copyright holder has made available for free distribution, like this, or this, etc. Trying to gain access to pay-per-view without actually paying per view is something else entirely.

Yes, and now you can have it too !

Anything like that for Linux ?

The Nullsoft Scriptable Install System is the open-source installer developed for Winamp. (Yes, I know Winamp is closed, but the installer it uses is under the zlib license).

Nullsoft maker of the popular Winamp software is also maker of the Shoutcast streaming media server. It works with all copies of Winamp, iTunes, and a handfull of other players. It is efficient, configurable, and availible for Windows 95/98/ME/NT/2000/XP, Mac OS X, FreeBSD, Linux, and Solaris. Besides that, you reach that huge market share which refuses to use the bloatware that is RealPlayer. It works by running on a machine connected to the internet, and then you can connect to it with the ShoutCast Source plugin availible for Winamp availible here. You can do this eather from a dedicated computer, or the same one running the server. You choose wether you want to stream whatever Winamp is playing, or if you have another input you can choose to use the soundcard. How I am streaming MY online station is a program called QuicPix made by the same people who do the wonderful iMediaTouch automation system going out the soundcard, into a mixer with a CD player and microphone, and then going back into the same computer where winamp sends it to Shoutcast ALSO running on the same computer.

1. Market Single Sign-On. AOL has an amazing (the largest) subscriber base, from AOL to AIM to ICQ to Netscape. Banner should ads *everywhere*, and make a decent developer site w/sample code and sell subscriptions like mad. There should be dummy simple easy to install SDKs for ActiveX, DotNet, Linux et al and preferably make the source available (for the press).
   
2. Figure out how to make money with Netscape (good luck). Seriously, AOL should market it as a client development platform. XUL can make some pretty amazing client-side apps and there should be sample code galore (on that developer's site) on how easy it is to make full fledged applications from HTML && Javascript. Make an extremely light XUL runtime that can be installed quickly and independently of Mozilla.
   
3. Give people a reason to subscribe to AOL. Ad-based services should start at $11/month, Ad-free service should be available for people at $25 or whatever. AOL should eat it if they have to.
   
4. Whatever AOL does, it should not restrict new AIM subscriptions or current service; as it is, its an excellent marketing and growth opportunity. (see single-signon)
   
5. Remove the general webbrowser from the AOL client software. All general webbrowsing should be done using the client's preferred web browser. Reserve the AOL client for exclusive AOL/TW content, messaging and email.
   
6. Give users a reason to want that AOL client. Make it lean, extremely fast and/or make the source available. Keep the current client proprietary for people who subscribe to the ad-based service.
   
7. Make a very expensive (hundreds / thousands of dollars) user-friendly encoder and media server for NSV. NSV is a (almost) patent-issue free streaming file format. Make NSV use OGG instead of MP3, btw to avoid patent issues.
   
8. Announce a big partnership w/Sun or IBM dealing w/something marketable.

You have several options for your right to steal! You can continue to use Kazaa or Gnutella: you just need to find somebody willing to proxy your connection across the internet who is willing to blow their bandwidth on your connection. Look into ssh port forwarding. Don't expect to actually find somebody more willing to do this than your university. You could find some OTHER variety of electronic theft protocol. There are several out there, far more advanced, and some even more time consuming than even the common Peer to Peer services. (Hard to believe!) But isn't gnutella fun!

Maybe MS will try to embrace and extend this:

http://www.nullsoft.com/free/nbeep/

why don't you use a free perl binary and a free installer system?

Nullsoft's NSIS is great and it took me no time to learn. I've been using it for ages and it works perfect. It is much smaller and faster the your "WISE" installer, and it is a hell of a lot less expensive. This is especially important if you are going to standardize on it!

an installer for Windows that is easy to use, can uninstall whatever has been installed, can manage the registry and also (maybe) have versioning controls

The Nullsoft SuperPIMP Install System does three out of four...and it's quite possible that you could script the versioning yourself. Check it out.

http://www.nullsoft.com/free/nsis/

The URL for the installer.

In this day and age, yes, a unified installshield kind of app is badly needed.

What is it about Linux that makes this so hard? Nullsoft, the people who made Winamp and then were bought by AOL, made their own open source installation/packaging program for Windows. They're just 15 or so people and they did it in their spare time from coding Winamp.

Now, I'm no coder, but why is it any harder to do the same on Linux? Of course it is harder, which is obvious from the amount of work that's put into the problem; but why does it need to be?

In this day and age, yes, a unified installshield kind of app is badly needed.

What is it about Linux that makes this so hard? Nullsoft, the people who made Winamp and then were bought by AOL, made their own open source installation/packaging program for Windows. They're just 15 or so people and they did it in their spare time from coding Winamp.

Now, I'm no coder, but why is it any harder to do the same on Linux? Of course it is harder, which is obvious from the amount of work that's put into the problem; but why does it need to be?

I have installed Linux on my computer about a year ago, and liked it. There were some medium painful moments (i.e. getting and installing Redhat 7.2 after upgrading the video card and finding absolutely no way to get all the packages installing new X required. Then, trying to fit Redhat with GNOME & KDE into somewhat limited hard drive space through the dependency hell), but it was OK.

Later, however, I installed Cygwin. Then, I suddenly found out that there is absolutely no reason for me to reboot into Linux. Right now, more or less the only reason I would reboot is to get a good debugger (gdb for Cygwin is unstable on Windows 98, and MSVC can't run arbitrary functions. But I'll install Windows 2000 someday...). So, I boot into Linux from time to time but really see no major reason to use it... And I can't use it all the time (or even most of the time) because:

1) I like The Bat! and MilkDrop.

2) It's more pain... If something goes wrong, you have to search Googe Groups. Then, sometimes you find nothing.... I'm lazy, darn it!

3) KDE & Gnome are slow; GNOME 1 is ugly; WindowMaker is better, but still sometimes just feels wrong (i.e. when you resease right mouse button, and the menu doesn't disappear).

-- Ilya.

As referenced by the previous post, but not linked:
Winamp3 Beta
Winamp3 Linux Alpha

The alpha release of Winamp for Linux is available for download from Nullsoft's site. A fairly lightweight 1.5MB download (XMMS was around 2MB last time I grabbed it). The press release for version 3 has this to say about Linux and us maybe seeing other cross-platform code:

Every component of the Winamp player can be removed or replaced, enabling developers to create exactly what they want and integrate it quickly into Winamp. The "Wasabi" coding platform enables instant cross- platform functionality for supported platforms that will include Windows and Linux at launch. The Winamp player is the first full-featured application for this groundbreaking new coding platform.

I downloaded the alpha. It's a tarball all right, but it's a tourist in the Linux world and definitely not a native speaker. First off, the archive has hardcoded paths starting from /. It expects you (as root, I assume) to extract it from /, and it makes a /usr/local/Winamp directory for its files and then places a shell script in /usr/local/bin which runs /usr/local/Winamp/Winamp.exe (with an input file arg and STDIN/STDERR to /dev/null). This is very weird. I now have a binary file with a .exe extension at $HOME/download/win32/winamp/usr/local/Winamp and a shell script which points elsewhere.

I tried to run it manually, but forgot one other thing about the shell script: it adds /usr/local/Winamp/libs to my LD_LIBRARY_PATH environment variable. I didn't do this, so it wouldn't run. I added it, and Winamp.exe did in fact execute. But it didn't run long.

It looks like this is a debug build, which is unsurprising since it's an alpha. It ran and displayed various profiler messages and such (the app loaded completely in 3422ms, in case you were interested). Most of the output wasn't especially interesting or unusual, although it did have a few of what looked to be function names that simply said "Write me!". I happened to notice that among these unwritten items, both Systray::addIcon and Systray::setTip told me to write them. Again, in case you didn't know it was a work-in-progress, here you go. Except seeing as how I don't have a system tray to which an icon and its associated tooltip might be added, I wonder if this might not be a work based on Win32 version which is in progress...

When the .exe ran it tried to create what looked like 3 new windows. I assume that they were the main window, the EQ and the playlist window. I couldn't say for sure since the allocated screen real estate was simply black. These new windows were up for about 1 second then went away. On the console, I saw this final message before the app died:

X Error of failed request: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)
Major opcode of failed request: 72 (X_PutImage)
Serial number of failed request: 5012
Current serial number in output stream: 5013

So there it is. I ran it with strace and watched all the "seek into my zipped-up skins files" hoo-ha fly by. I'm tired and it's late and I'm no longer all that curious as to what "Linamp" might be like, so I didn't go through it all of it very much. I did scan through it, though. Toward the end, I saw bunch of open() calls that failed because the files weren't found. I also saw some libpng warnings about incomplete streams. Offhand, I'd say that this alpha build actually does expect to be installed in a certain location. Although I can't imagine hard-coding paths, even in an alpha. More likely, I've got it all wrong and my theories are bunk. I didn't install it where it wanted to be, though. I like a little unsolved mystery sometimes.

Anyway, it'll be nice to have some choice once they get it working. When I switched from Windows to Linux, one of the things I really missed was Winamp's minibrowser. XMMS could use that feature.

-B

Ryan Geiss makes some of the best winamp plugins available, including Geiss, Milkdrop, and Smoke. Geiss is a little dated and runs too fast on my computer at maximum settings(the framerate isn't restricted making it look too fast), but Smoke and Milkdrop run smoothly. Milkdrop is one of the best Winamp plugins available, so check it out if you have Winamp, or now, XMMS.

Ryan Geiss makes some of the best winamp plugins available, including Geiss, Milkdrop, and Smoke. Geiss is a little dated and runs too fast on my computer at maximum settings(the framerate isn't restricted making it look too fast), but Smoke and Milkdrop run smoothly. Milkdrop is one of the best Winamp plugins available, so check it out if you have Winamp, or now, XMMS.

It's all about the hardware acceleration...mmmm, geforce goodness. I'm talking about MilkDrop and Smoke both by Nullsoft. I've never had more fun staring at my screen bleary eyed for hours on end.

It's all about the hardware acceleration...mmmm, geforce goodness. I'm talking about MilkDrop and Smoke both by Nullsoft. I've never had more fun staring at my screen bleary eyed for hours on end.

1) It has The Bat!. I haven't seen a better mailer.

2) I need to be 100% compatible with Word in my school. I don't want to install OpenOffice, StarOfice, and KDE's office to find out which one better supports word.

3) XMMS is great, but soumething always interferes with esd/KDE's sound daemon. Sound usually works, but not all the time.

4) Concerning music, I haven't seen anything on Linux better than MilkDrop. There is a G-Force for XMMS, but it doesn't compile with me.

5) Not every program has RPMs, and I want to keep track of what I have installed.

6) Yes, this is outdated, but I don't have much disk space to upgrade. Gnome is ugly (in my opinion - too squary), KDE 2 is slow and unstable. There hardly is a good browser for Linux - Konqueror has problems with fonts, Mozilla is slow. I'll try to install Mozilla 1.0 when I'll reboot next.

7) I'm too lazy to reboot, and I have Cygwin.

As an end user, I sometimes reboot only for one reason - Cygwin's gdb is buggy. So, Linux for me is just the enviroment that runs ddd without crashing ;).

Quoth:

If such a message came from a company with not a bad reputation (winamp comes to mind), i would install the program

I guess you didn't realize that Winamp is Nullsoft is America Online whom is also the proud owner of Time Warner, among other things.

Is there really a reason to go about trusting, implicitly, this "winamp" organization of which you speak?

This has even been called "free shit" by it's author Justin Frankel Have a nice day. :)

WWWinamp allows you to control WinAMP via the internet. Granted, its not perfect (i.e. you only see the tracks after the current track playing, not those before it. Annoying if you don't listen to your mp3s in a sequential order) but its plenty functional.

Oh and its free :P

There seems to be a bit of annoyance in the community pertaining to the closed-source nature of Winamp. I'm not Nullsoft, but I'd wager that if they weren't part of a larger corporation, they would have probably open-sourced Winamp by now. Nullsoft isn't against open-source. Check out [nullsoft.com] to see (the most notable contribution here is their open-source installer software... no more InstallShield!). Don't forget that Gnutella started out as a Nullsoft project. Besides, the past has shown that competition breeds innovation. Has anyone looked at the new media database thingy? It's pretty sharp. Of course, when it all comes down to it, it's Just Another MP3 Player.... *shrug*

http://download.nullsoft.com/winamp/client/Winamp- 0.a1-1.i386.rpm

After a few grim moments of comtemplating actually buying and installing Visual C++, it occured to me that these things are probably defined somewhere in the mingw stuff. Sure enough, I found them all in various headers within the mingw package. I copied all these (and a bunch of other little win32 kludges) into a win32stuff.h file that I started including in the various .cpp files.

So did I cross the line? I copied a few dozen lines from various header files in the mingw package (I didn't mention in the file that I got them from the mingw project, but I probably should before I release the port to anyone). Did the the mingw guys copy this stuff from somewhere in all the stuff included by #include <windows.h> ??

Ok, I'll admit that a bit struct that represents the on-disk format of something that was reverse engineered is a bit more substantial than a bunch of constants... but calling it "IP Theft" seems to be leaping to some strong conclusions. Even if both programmers did their reverse engineering independently, aside from using different names, there's not a lot of different ways the struct could look. Even if the linux developer did look at the BSD header file to learn the data formats, how different could one expect his code to possibly be ?? If it's an algorithm with some creative implementation, I can see the accusation, but over a header file that simply documents simple facts seems a bit much. Sure, it can be hard work to get those facts by reverse engineering, but still, the "IP Theft" is simple facts (not really protected by copyright, in my limited understanding of copyright law... IANAL).

And finally, if Søren really does hope "an amicable solution can be reached", why's he turning this into a bunch of bad PR for linux and redhat ?? It's sounds to me like a case of getting mad and posting flames instead of cooling off for a day and thinking it through more carefully.

As far as my porting work for Nullsoft's really cool (SuperPiMP) installer, I hit a big block of very win32 specific code, CEXEBuild::do_add_file at the end of script.cpp. Unlike many of the other bits that I ifdef'd out, this is the one that actually puts the files into the install image, so I can't just chop it off. I will need to completely rewrite this using unix/posix APIs, probably using C library regex patterns instead of whatever wildcard matching win32's FindFirstFile does. I'll probably get back to porting NSIS in a week or two... I might even try rebooting and running it in windows a few times! And, I'm not going to lose any sleep over copying a few dozen constants out of someone else's header files.

Winamp has been using Bugzilla for the last year to assist in developing the new Winamp 3. It's certainly great for developers, provided that they have a dedicated user base that's willing to "weed out" bad or duplicate bugs. It's also great for users who are beta testing - then we can know which bugs they know about, without e-mailing the developers and wasting their time.

While Winamp's Bugzilla doesn't have the same magnitude as Mozilla's, it's still quite valuable.

Winamp Bugzilla

Your forgot Nullsoft, and like someone else mentioned, WCW was purchased by WWF. Good list though, nice to have around for reference.

Yes, because we all know that Ogg is easily played on any PC since most people already have support for it installed.

These Windows platform media players support Ogg Vorbis audio: FreeAMP (natively), Sonique (natively), and Winamp (with a plugin). Winamp, from AOL Nullsoft, is the most popular audio player on the Windows platform. A drag-and-drop Ogg Vorbis encoder is also available.

...Nullsoft, Inc. expanded in the year following and in May of 1999, Nullsoft was acquired by America Online. Since the acquisition, the structure of Nullsoft has gradually evolved into what it is today: about 20 people who work within AOL Time Warner, and share a state of mind. ...