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Name an alternative.

www.paypalsucks.com/options.shtml

Suggestions for next steps:

1. Contact the California Dept Financial Institutions and tell them one of their licensees is committing financial embezzlement and racketeering under the guise of operating under their granted license
2. Contact the Santa Clara Country District Attorney's office and tell them a Santa Clara Country corporation is committing embezzlement and racketeering with charitable donations for Katrina victims.
3. Contact SF Bay Area news media (SJ Mercury News, SF Chronicle/Examiner, KRON 4 TV, KTVU 2 TV, KPIX 5 TV, KGO 7 TV) and tell them a Santa Clara Country corporation is committing embezzlement and racketeering with charitable donations for Katrina victims. Send E-mail and call them - hearing the story from multiple channels adds credibility.
4. Collect documentation of previous malfeasance (e.g. PalPay Sucks!) and broadcast it as widely as possible. That especially includes personal networks: make it a point to tell 5 friends and 5 strangers about PayPal's unacceptable behavior in the next 24 hours. Ask those you tell to investigate the truth themselves and tell 10 people they know also. Lather. Rinse. Repeat as necessary.

This ongoing and repeated abuse must stop now!

Suggestions for next steps:

1. Contact the California Dept Financial Institutions and tell them one of their licensees is committing financial embezzlement and racketeering under the guise of operating under their granted license
2. Contact the Santa Clara Country District Attorney's office and tell them a Santa Clara Country corporation is committing embezzlement and racketeering with charitable donations for Katrina victims.
3. Contact SF Bay Area news media (SJ Mercury News, SF Chronicle/Examiner, KRON 4 TV, KTVU 2 TV, KPIX 5 TV, KGO 7 TV) and tell them a Santa Clara Country corporation is committing embezzlement and racketeering with charitable donations for Katrina victims. Send E-mail and call them - hearing the story from multiple channels adds credibility.
4. Collect documentation of previous malfeasance (e.g. PalPay Sucks!) and broadcast it as widely as possible. That especially includes personal networks: make it a point to tell 5 friends and 5 strangers about PayPal's unacceptable behavior in the next 24 hours. Ask those you tell to investigate the truth themselves and tell 10 people they know also. Lather. Rinse. Repeat as necessary.

This ongoing and repeated abuse must stop now!

You hate dealing with them the more you have to deal with them. Sadly this is not the first case of paypal outrageousness. They will happily do what they want and often may take money, they do not follow any real guidelines and you are often left out in the cold without them helping you. Sadly there is not a whole lot one can do when you run into bad luck. Unfortunately it can be hard to transfer money with others, and so you are left forced to deal with paypal. For a whole bunch of bad stories just visit one of the many sites like http://www.paypalsucks.com/ .

"I won't rest until we can eliminate wrongdoing," They'd best eliminate paypal (which they own) first then, if they're talking about wrongdoings. http://www.paypalsucks.com/ for the few who don't know about it. Taking the easy road out and getting money from the person they know is in the right just because it's easier then getting it form the scammer is the name of the game with Ebay and their wholely owned paypal.

I've been working on something similar at http://www.ideacradle.com/ and there are quite a few stumbling blocks. The fundraiser takes considerable risk accepting funds with possible refunds because of the transaction fees associated with using any payment system like credit cards, paypal and all the rest. Paypal seems at first to be the easyest way but unfortunately they have a nasty habit of freezing funds for as long as they want if there is any abnormal activity on the account. See http://www.paypalsucks.com/ In every case it is the merchant who bears the costs of bad transactions. I'm pursuing a strategy more like a petition and resulting co-operative at ideacradle but I struggle with my own issues.

Write open source for e-Gay and gay-pal? No frikkin' way, bub. These companies need to clean up their acts, first. To wit:

eBay Sucks Balls
PayPay Sucks Ass

Read it and weep.

Honestly, I don't know how you can evangelize for such rotten companies. Oh well, at least I can sleep at night, safe in the knowledge that I'm not a cheerleader for a company that rips people off at the drop of a hat.

-Scott

Sure they just decided to do it. Not at all prompted by a rival online payment system to their subsiduary company which doesn't have the best reputation.

Example quote:
"Analysts on Monday said the biggest and most immediate risk to PayPal from a Google payment system would be a cap on growth in PayPal's off-eBay business, prompting a 2 percent drop in eBay shares."

Hmmm, let's compare a vague promise to open 'parts' of search functionality (only to registered eBay and PayPal developers) to Google's Summer of Code shall we? Let's face it, eBay still don't look like they "get it" and I doubt this attempt to get free labour will gather much momentum.

Phillip.

Can't wait. Can't wait to drop Paypal and their horrible transaction fees.

I guess what aggrivates me more is "Not being allowed to post buyer pays paypal transaction fees on ebay purchases" in your ebay posts.

And all the other crap Paypal pulls out of it's mighty ass.

Semi-intersting links:

http://paypalsucks.com/
http://www.paypalwarning.com/

If you believe the paypal sucks people, that essentially IS PayPal's system.

I haven't had a problem with them, but see http://www.paypalsucks.com/.

It suceeds because the players act as a distributed network.

No. It succeeds because it brilliantly taps into a huge fear people now have (rightly) that their service will be withdrawn for some arbitrary reason/incident and that they are utterly powerless unless they immediately comply with whatever the company's procedure for dealing with that reason/incident is.

And I have to say people like eBay and especially PayPal, must take their share of the responsibilty for this climate which they and others have deliberately created. Totally unaccountable, totally not giving one shit how they treat customers and how they handle complaints and hiding behind a wall of silence and mystery and inaccessabilty.

They are really the ones to blame for phishing. As are various online banks, the 'War against Terror' and any other sort of similar bullshit.

Yes it's a real nasty shame that some innocent people are getting scamed out of their money, but if this was actually hurting ebay/paypal/online banks etc I very much doubt ANYBODY would have one drop of sympathy for them. Indeed, they deserve everything they get.

For some horror stories on who PayPal really doesn't give a shit about you, go here:

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

read it and weep.

Paypal needs the competition - especially from a company like Google that professes a higher sense of ethics.

RS

I agree with you, I look forward to a viable alternative to paypal. I am not please with Paypal after having had a false charge back happen against me, and being pinged for an aditional $10.00 as well as losing the original money. Paypal sucks has more horror stories too, and I offer some advice if you have to do business with paypal:

• Make sure your checking account is deposit only. You can have this specified in writing, but another way is to have the account be joint co-signed so both parties have to sign to take something out if you have a significant other. This way paypal cannot take money out of your account (which in the terms of service last time I saw you give them permission to take money out of your account to settle balances with them).
• Keep a minimum amount of money in your paypal account.

Since google seems to be holding to its 'do not evil' policy they should make a for good competitor with customers fed up with paypal. I wouldn't mind seeing a google auction site to compete with ebay (Paypal's owner) as well :).

Lots of similar horror stories:

http://paypalsucks.com/

Do they accept PayPal?

Aww come on man, the person already has a virus, dont make them use paypal! I wonder which is worse.

Sweet! didn't even know there was such an ongoing trial. but now that the verdict is out, that means http://www.paypalsucks.com/ and http://www.bestbuysux.org/ gets to stay!

Hi,

I went through the same problem last month for the website of my company (see sig). PayPal may be OK for "donations" but it is not good enough for e-commerce websites. PayPal is down or broken in some way about 100% of the time. Also, many people (including me) don't want to pay with PayPal because of all the problems you can read on PayPalSucks.

So I offer CC payments through eSellerate. I handle my own shopping cart and the user picks the payment means when he checks out. eSellerate is good for me because the commission is 10% flat, without a fixed fee. Most similar services charge something like "5% or $2, whichever is higher". My product cost $6.99, so $2 is a lot of money.

Also, you can really customize the checkout process on eSellerate so that the customer can't tell the difference between your site and the eSellerate checkout site. You can't do that with PayPal.

As a conclusion, please do not offer PayPal only. PayPal is not a reliable company and lot's of people avoid them.

IANAL, but putting up a site criticizing Hasbro should be an acceptable use of the trademark. See http://www.paypalsucks.com/, for example.

Anywho, I plodded through the various screens of signing up, filling in my personal information, and when it came time to charge my credit card MoneyBookers said that it had some "Secure Shopping" system on it, and they would forward me to the appropriate site to enter my password. That site was in fact my credit card issuer's site, and they had me sign up for and pick an initial password for my credit card. Subsequently the MoneyBookers site said my transaction failed, at which point I gave up trying to buy SkypeOut time.

After that I got an email from my credit card issuer saying I should go set my preferences in this new service, and when I went there, lo and behold there is a "reciept" for that failed transaction (they don't seem to think it failed). But the transaction has yet to post to my actual credit card, which I can monitor using a separate website from the "Secure Shopping" website, and which website never refers to "Secure Shopping" feature at all!

When I asked at the "Secure Shopping" website for the places where I can use my "Secure Shopping" password, they list only a few in the U.S., but many, many places in the U.K. So I suspect that this service is more widespread in Europe than it is here. After all, if the merchant doesn't use the service, the check just isn't done-- the charges still go through. It's sort of "optional" extra security. Wouldn't the thief just use a site that doesn't use that security?

Paypal doesn't like it. Boy does this lady get mad. It's rather funny though.

...and when PayPal catches wind of this, be sure to kiss your donation goodbye. Check out PayPal's draconian AUP; Loki surely doesn't pass this litmus test. Paypalsucks.com is abound with stories of PayPal arbitrarily freezing account funds when you don't play by their rules.

Read some horror stories from customers at PayPalSucks.com. Apparently PayPal can keep the balance in your account locked for 180 days if they deem your website "inappropriate." I don't trust them at all.

Read all about it here

The site that scared me enough to take all my money out of paypal and never use it again. They're not a real bank and they're not held up to the same standard as real banks. Just read some of the horror stories in their forums.

--Smutt

It's not a bank, people!

Others have said similar, I merely divert your attention to http://www.paypalsucks.com/....

And ever so politely tells their customers to go fuck themselves if they have a problem?

I suspect that PayPal is very cooperative with authorities so that it can keep its "not-a-bank" status. Being treated as a bank would involve PayPal in all kinds of unpleasantness (for PayPal) like not arbitrarily freezing people's money, arbitrarily withdrawing money from their checking accounts, etc.

The folks over at PayPalSucks.com have been fighting the shady practices of PayPal since its inception. It's a great source of information and a good browse for everyone who has accounts with PP. Just keept the bias in mind ;) Here's a link to their discussion forum regarding the settlement. Very informative.

that's not to mention the restrictions placed on those who may contribute their work by requiring contributers to license with a handfull of licenses.

The reason for supporting only nonproprietary works is to get tax exemption. If you're producing proprietary works then you're not entitled to that, and so you can try yourself to get people to donate to you, without tax exemption.

I agree that snail-mail only donations isn't great, but it's not like this will always be the only way to donate. This system looks like a good start to a difficult problem.

Personally, I think PayPal already covers the online donation territory in a far less political and more trustworthy fashion.

You trust PayPal? I think most people "trust" PayPal merely by default, not for any particularly good reason or evidence.

Sure- you take paypal.

"One person's experience" does not constitute a habit.

I'm curious, if more people also had similar serious problems, then does it become a habit? If not, what does it take?

I'm sorry to hear that Freenet relied on Paypal, and I can only hope they have lawyers at the ready -- because Paypal only speaks one language.

"Amazon is a standard business, they sell merchandise and they're directly responsible." Not true. They have a network of used product sellers ("Buy it used!") over whom they have little to no control. Amazon still has an excellent rep, Paypal doesn't.

"Pretty much anyone can just hop in and start doing business through them." Exactly, you just pop in a credit card number, pay for shipping, and you'll get your book/dvd/whatever in a few days... oh, you meant PayPal!

"What I'm saying is that when you have so many people from any walk of life, you're going to get a high volume of garbage." You've just described the customers for every single online business. What makes PayPal so special?

"Not advocating them or overlooking their crap, but anyone (or company) who deals with so much bullshit is likely to: 1) have a strict policy, 2) make mistakes. They could be worse and they aren't." Have you read PayPalSucks? They *are* worse.

http://www.paypalsucks.com

Paypal has been known to do stupid stuff like this in the past. Sites like http://www.paypalsucks.com and http://www.trashcity.org/ARTICLES/PAYPAL.HTM tell horror stories of accounts being frozen for unknown reasons leaving hundreds and thousands of dollars locked out. They have also been known to give the runaround to people trying to get their money back.

Just FYI, I will never ever transfer money via PayPal, no matter what the cause. And I'm not alone.

Why do you not like PayPal? I've not seen any disparaging comments on them before. Can you elaborate a bit more on this?

While I have never personally used PayPal, I have friends who have related horror stories; there are many others at http://www.paypalsucks.com. I also have friends who have had success with PayPal, so it may work for you; just be careful how you use it. In particular, have a special bank account just for PayPal, never use it for anything else, and never keep excess funds in it. This way, if anything 'irregular' happens, your losses are limited. Also, as a buyer, you get additional consumer protection by using a credit card rather than a bank account.

See, everyone says this, but all the anecdotes are particularly short on details. I've visited paypalsucks.com several times, and have yet to see a definitive instance where paypal screwed someone over. I've seen lots of "I shipped item $foo, and the seller claimed he never received it, and PayPal stole my money". Of course, they probably didn't read PayPal's TOS which says if you want seller protection, you ship via a method that provides tracking.

Personally, I find that feature useful. I bought an item which never arrived. The seller tried to claim he didn't have to provide proof to me that he mailed it, since I didn't pay for insurance. So after two months, I filed a claim with PayPal and got my money back, since he failed to abide by their TOS. Then in retaliation he tried to report me as a non-paying bidder. It was later revealed that the item was returned to him for insufficient postage.

Personally, I find the biggest problem on eBay is the users, not PayPal. However, I agree that if another suction service comes along that does a better job for the same price, yes, eBay will suffer. But I think that'll turn out to be difficult.

Grasshopper, just take a look at this appropriately named site for the answers to your questions. Why does Paypal suck? Click and read.

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

According to PayPal accepting their ToS (Terms of Service) in effect means you waive your rights to credit card consumer protection laws, and that you may not issue a chargeback for unauthorized use of your credit card and PayPal account. Is this legal? We don't know. But it's how Paypal operates.

Try paypalsucks.com

I hate to say it, but if you actually put your faith in such things as online auctions you shouldn't be suprised when you are scammed. I liken it to network administrators that run open relays because "we are behind corporate's network and firewalls", or the person that uses Outlook and wonders why he is infected with worms and viruses every month.

PayPal Sucks
PayPal Warning
About PayPal
Google

That ougth to keep you busy for a few days ;)

... this is probably why. You also might want to check out this site. Paypal is currently involved in numerous trials worldwide and some of the stuff they're doing is ranging from questionable to ludicrous, and probably downright illegal in some cases.

Their FAQ says they use Paypal, and everyone knows how horrible Paypal is. After reading all the horror stories who's really stupid enough to give Paypal their credit card number anyway? If similar stories were written about a brand of car there would be a massive recall and government investigation, amazing how Paypal still manages to sneak by.

Yeah, and those damn nuns... and orphanages!

No but seriously, do you know what a apple is? How about a orange? How do they compare? Because that's what you're comparing.

Wikipedia is a far cry from doctors who provide emergency aid to war victims.

Wikipedia is one of the top 1000 sites on the internet. Want to guess how many of those sites aren't selling something or selling ads? Try less than 1%. So what would happen if every site currently running ads decided "hey, we shouldn't run ads, we should just beg for $$$!". Internet would be a pretty shitty place to surf.

It's like TV: wouldn't TV just suck if instead of commercials you had some corporate exec standing there begging for donations? What's that you say? PBS already does that crap? Exactly, and no one likes it.

Course none of this matters because Wikipedia made 20 grand in 1 day so apparently there's a lot of people out there that don't mind Paypal sucking their bank accounts dry so whatever.

I am not sure how many of you are aware of numerous reports of paypal.com being a somewhat questionable company. While I have not had them cause me any trouble personally, I thought it worth mentioning. It seems some people have had paypal.com hold up in excess of $5000.00, to either get it back in a year, or not at all. If you read the forums, you get a real good idea about how horrible they really are, with ex-employees telling some very interesting stories. If any of this is true, I would hate to see SourceForge caught in the middle of something that could hurt them or its users.

I am not sure how many of you are aware of numerous reports of paypal.com being a somewhat questionable company. While I have not had them cause me any trouble personally, I thought it worth mentioning. It seems some people have had paypal.com hold up in excess of $5000.00, to either get it back in a year, or not at all. If you read the forums, you get a real good idea about how horrible they really are, with ex-employees telling some very interesting stories. If any of this is true, I would hate to see SourceForge caught in the middle of something that could hurt them or its users.

I am not sure how many of you are aware of numerous reports of paypal.com being a somewhat questionable company. While I have not had them cause me any trouble personally, I thought it worth mentioning. It seems some people have had paypal.com hold up in excess of $5000.00, to either get it back in a year, or not at all. If you read the forums, you get a real good idea about how horrible they really are, with ex-employees telling some very interesting stories. If any of this is true, I would hate to see SourceForge caught in the middle of something that could hurt them or its users.

I am not sure how many of you are aware of numerous reports of paypal.com being a somewhat questionable company. While I have not had them cause me any trouble personally, I thought it worth mentioning. It seems some people have had paypal.com hold up in excess of $5000.00, to either get it back in a year, or not at all. If you read the forums, you get a real good idea about how horrible they really are, with ex-employees telling some very interesting stories. If any of this is true, I would hate to see SourceForge caught in the middle of something that could hurt them or its users.