How Amazon and Google are taking eBay's Business

eBay will fail unless it... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 10:15 · Score: 4, Insightful

controls keyword spamming and curtails the megasellers

Re:eBay will fail unless it... by Col.+Bloodnok · 2005-06-22 10:23 · Score: 5, Informative

Lying about the location needs to be sorted out too.

I'm sick and tired of searching for items in the UK and having to sort through pages and pages of crap from Hong Kong (which seem cheap until you look at the shipping costs).
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by teh_winch · 2005-06-22 11:19 · Score: 2, Informative

They should show the postage cost next to the item price. Then you could just avoid looking at the items with high postage costs.
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by timeOday · 2005-06-22 11:20 · Score: 1

I think you're one step away from addressing the real issue... what ebay needs to fix is SHIPPING COSTS. You have to carefully read every listing to have any idea what the bid amount really means, because it's useless until you add on the shipping!
pricewatch saved itself from ruin by adding shipping costs into the advertized prices. It's long past time for ebay to do the same!
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by Tsu+Dho+Nimh · 2005-06-22 12:01 · Score: 1

"What ebay needs to fix is SHIPPING COSTS. You have to carefully read every listing to have any idea what the bid amount really means, because it's useless until you add on the shipping!"
Shipping to WHERE? Unless the person uses a flat-rate service like USPS Expre$$ Mail, shipping increases with the distance.
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by mcguyver · 2005-06-22 12:56 · Score: 1

That's a bold statement considering 2005Q1 revenues increased 36% over 2004Q1 to something like $1.05 billion. Keyword spamming and megasellers may diminish the value of eBay but you got to admit the company is very successful and making money hand over fist.
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by lorelorn · 2005-06-22 12:56 · Score: 4, Insightful

Shipping to where I am of course.
Sellers routinely advertise what the different shipping rates are. As a registered user my location is known to the site- why can't it just indicate the shipping costs for items I'm looking at, or say if they are not mentioned?

eBay already allows you to view by availability to your locaiton, they just need to take it one step further.
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 12:59 · Score: 0

Irrelevant. It still needs to be fixed. Right now they have a vague policy about "excessive" shipping that I've never seen enforced. They need a firm, well-stated policy to cut down on the gougers who fuck with listings by having a rock bottom item price and then a "handling fee" of $19.99 on top of shipping. eBay needs to separate actual shipping costs from "packaging and handling" charges and take that into account in the listings.
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by Tyrdium · 2005-06-22 13:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

You can, it's just not enabled by default. There's a "customize display" link (or something like that) next to the sorting control.
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 14:10 · Score: 1, Interesting

They charge high fees, yet offer NO SERVICE.

Right now, you cannot report problems, and no-one gets slapped for the following offences:-

Ebay looses squillions when you have to 'register' at sellers site to get goods shipped. After that buyers are on a list, and the rest are direct sales chopping ebay out of the loop - for good.

Nothing get done about 1 cent items with $20 postage. HK is really bad, but if everyone halves their sale price by shifting 'profit' onto the postage, then ebay has to double the commission to compensate.

Many would like to sell 'spare parts' but the cost of a 'no sale' is a real turn off. Selling a 'new mobile phone' vs selling 'recon engine head' means hard to get spares are no longer listed - ebay has drove useful obscure spare parts merchants off ebay and onto online forums. Ebay has failed when a phonebook outperforms an online search.

I don't think Ebay will fail, but its growth rate will stagnate, as google, amazon, and ex-buyers on lists go elsewhere after initial contact. Ebay is turning down certain market segments, and the fortunes of TradingPost and the like are going up, as fed up sellers are walking (or retain a token advertising presence).

As for paypal, well google is nipping at their heels. That is a lot of profit they are choosing to give up, whilst the reputation of same decreases.
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by N3Bruce · 2005-06-22 14:31 · Score: 1

The whole concept of buying things online, whether on Ebay, online classified listings, or on newsgroups does have its limits. Ebay works well for specialty items that can be hard to find in local markets, or for items which the shipping cost is not a huge percentage of the value of the item.

For lightweight items (less than a pound or so), it is difficult to justify domestic shipping costs of more than 5 or 6 bucks, since a 1 pound priority mail envelope or small package will go for about $4 and change, plus the cost of the packaging itself.

For little stuff, like memory chips that get a 60 cent stamp and a 15 cent bubble wrap envelope, I see all the time shipping costs in the range of $5 to $10. This is price inflation, pure and simple, particularly if the merchant is aggregating his shipments. Of course, it is easier to charge $10 for shipping a $150 dollar memory module than it is a for a 15 dollar one, even if the postage and packing materials are the same.

For larger items that are UPS sendable (up to 70#), I can see spending up to $50 to ship a heavy item such as a desktop computer, monitor or ham radio transceiver cross country. It cost me about $30 for USPS ground postage, plus a large box and packing material to ship a Kenwood TS-520 to a buyer in Texas, about 1,200 miles away. If you have to buy the boxes and peanuts, bubble wrap, etc. it can add several more bucks to the cost of shipping. Still, I have brought items that the shipping costs had more padding than the box they came in. It does get a little tougher for the merchant to seriously overcharge for shipping for heavier items, particularly if the item has a fairly low value to weight ratio.

For the really big stuff such as cars, motorcycles, big-screen TVs, furniture, and industrial equipment, arranging for shipment can be a much larger expense, and can be a real headache to pull off for the casual seller, or for the buyer to arrange if the seller is unable or uninterested in shipping it himself. The potential market for large heavy items becomes regional or even local, rather than nationwide. Online forums start to lose their advantage over local markets, particularly for items that are somewhat commodities, like used vehicles and appliances that have a low value to weight ratio.

One good thing that Ebay has done is improve their search engine to allow the buyer to specify the maximum distance from their home city when searching for vehicles and other items. Too often, I have seen dozens of gorgeous bikes I might want to bid on, then find out they are in Provo UT or Portland Oregon. I might specify a radius of 450 miles from Baltimore, MD, and would include the east coast from Boston down to Wilmington, NC, and as far west as Cleveland. For the right bike, I might make a weekend of it to pick it up.

For a more common item, such as a '95 F-150, I might limit my search to less than 100 miles. There might be 10 similar vehicles within 10 miles of my house that I can inspect while running my Saturday shopping errands, both marketed locally and online.

Another drawback of Ebay is the ability to closely inspect something before you buy, unless you are local enough to check it out before the auction ends. All you usually have to go on are some digital photos and the word and reputation of the seller. Even a good picture won't show all of the cracks, scratches, and dings, nor will it do a great item justice. Dodgy sellers sometimes have worthwhile stuff, and sometimes even good sellers overlook flaws. For anything with a switch, motor, or engine, there is nothing like being able to start it up, boot it up, or turn it on. A seller may be honest and ethical and disclose that his truck has a coolant leak, but until I can see whether it is a leaky thermostat gasket that is easily and inexpensively repaired, or a leaking head gasket will require tearing down the engine to fix, I tend to fear the worst and will bid accordingly, if at all.
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by anagama · 2005-06-22 17:37 · Score: 1

I was looking at airport cards for an old mac earlier today. One guy seemed to have a fairly good "buy it now" price -- about the going rate. Except S&H in the US was $28. From San Diego! USPS priority mail would be what, $5? It's obviously a gimmick to get bidders who forget to make sure the seller's mailing charges are in the realm of sanity. Fucking ebayers. 90% Cheats and louts.

--
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by Alaska+Jack · 2005-06-22 17:42 · Score: 1

I always thought they should just do away with charging for postage costs. Just have the seller name a minimum bid he or she is willing to accept, one which incorporates the shipping cost already.

- AJ
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by ottothecow · 2005-06-22 18:19 · Score: 2, Insightful

indeed. the keyword spamming sucks but you can work your way around it (just ignore the shit).
What really sucks ass are the fricking mega "powersellers." I just bought something the other day (promedia ultra 5.1) and not only am I pretty sure that I was shill-bid up to a higher price, but I got the thing and of course it doesnt work (dead amp, clearly dropped hard and not in shipping). I'm out return shipping and I plan to issue a chargeback if the guy wont give me back the full amount I payed him (no way am I paying for him to mail me broken goods).

He is one of those sellers that has tens of thousands of feedbacks and they roll in fast enough that the front page is always positive but the negatives are quite negative (and there are negative ones listed as positive to avoid feedback retaliation which is another shitty part of ebay). He clearly makes it a habit to screw customers but ebay wont do shit becuase he is a powerseller. The BBB in his state has apparently stopped taking complaints because they have recieved so many without a response from the business but they cant really do anything. I havn't even been able to get a direct response, I only get automated mails telling me to leave feedback (but I plan to wait until 90 days are up to leave a nasty feedback and hope he cant retaliate before the link is taken away).

It's shit like that that makes ebay suck. The company wouldnt survive on their own, they require ebay's services along with the fact that customers are more trusting on ebay. If they had to fend for themselves, that 7% or so of pissed off customers is all it takes to screw the business because the happy and mildly satisfied people dont show up to support them, only the angry people go to complain. I am perfectly happy buying my item from some guy who has somethign to sell, I dont care if it takes a little longer to ship because I often get better documentation and communication as well as a product that works.

I hope that the other places take away the megasellers because the assholes wont survive outside of ebay (the froogle link to resellerratings wont help that). The good megasellers would leave and survive and the bad ones would be all that was left. Ebay would have no choice but to change their policies and deal with ALL bad sellers (not just the ones who arent powersellers) or else the customers would get mighty angry.

P.S. The seller in question is bargaindepot04, they have some other names and they operate auctionlogistix.com. It's not worth it to try no matter how low the price is because its probobly broken or lied about in some other way(and even if you get it for half of what its worth, you were probobly shill-bid to that level). If anyone else has had a bad experiance with this guy (and many have) and want to get together and try do do something about it...lets give it a shot.

--
Bottles.
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 19:25 · Score: 0

... and upgrades its services more than slightly above what they offered in 1995. Something they haven't done yet.
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by arivanov · 2005-06-22 21:14 · Score: 1

It is making money as a result of a large number of people running something that is essentially a business without running it as a business complying with the relevant consumer regulation and very often without paying taxes. The latter is what will drive ebay down back to where it was sooner or later. It is firmly in the sights of the fiscal authorities as well as the consumer watchdogs all over Europe and it is only a matter of time until it is hit by a full broadside under the waterline. Add to that the competition watchdogs which are under a heavy pressure from businesses who sell legally. Add to that customs and excise.

Frankly it is not a company into which I would invest a penny at the moment. They had a solid business case while operating in the US. Moving their business into places with stricter consumer legislation was a bad idea.

--
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by -brazil- · 2005-06-22 21:59 · Score: 2, Insightful

Many would like to sell 'spare parts' but the cost of a 'no sale' is a real turn off. Selling a 'new mobile phone' vs selling 'recon engine head' means hard to get spares are no longer listed - ebay has drove useful obscure spare parts merchants off ebay and onto online forums.

I remember the time when ebay charged nothing for listing items. That was back when it wasn't the dominant online auction house. People would put in stuff with unrealistic minimum bids, and when nobody was willing to pay that much, they'd just put it in again, hoping for a sucker. Any search would turn up at least 75% such overpriced items. Then ebay installed the listing charge. There was a terrible outcry and people were urging a boycott of ebay. But the reasult was that ebay became a lot more attractive to the BUYERS, because they didn't have to wade through pages upon pages of overpriced stuff. In the end, it was not ebay but its competition that died out.

--
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
--Henry Kissinger
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by Dogtanian · 2005-06-22 22:34 · Score: 1

I always thought they should just do away with charging for postage costs. Just have the seller name a minimum bid he or she is willing to accept, one which incorporates the shipping cost already.

Do you propose then that postage should be a flat rate, even if the person is willing to ship to several different countries/regions that may have wildly varying postal rates?

Or should they only ship within their own country? Actually, I guessed you were from the US, because this would *definitely* be restricting were you from a smaller country (although I reckon Americans would still notice the difference once this measure was in place). Then I noticed your name; if you really *are* from Alaska, aren't shipping rates still far higher there? Do you suggest that buyers should bite the extra cost of shipping to Alaska, or just say "sorry, can't ship to Alaska or Hawaii"?

Finally, I don't see the problem in having flexibility with postal options; I prefer to have the choice.

--
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by mikael · 2005-06-22 23:14 · Score: 1

Some sellers in the UK seem to swap around the item price and postal delivery costs, especially for small items.

So a $10 gadget with a $2 delivery charge, suddenly becomes a $2 gadget with a $10 delivery charge.

--
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by __aamkky7574 · 2005-06-22 23:55 · Score: 2, Insightful

He is one of those sellers that has tens of thousands of feedbacks and they roll in fast enough that the front page is always positive but the negatives are quite negative (and there are negative ones listed as positive to avoid feedback retaliation which is another shitty part of ebay).

I'm not sure what the problem is. When you view his profile, you can clearly see the total amount of negatives he has (5772 out of 80908 transactions, which is a HUGE proportion in my opinion - I'm wary of anyone with less than a 99% satisfaction rate). He sucks, his customers have said so, and eBay displays the fact. Buyer beware and all that.

P.
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by CrazyTalk · 2005-06-23 00:22 · Score: 1

The most frustrating thing for me on eBay as a customer is the use of the word "Not". If I'm looking for a Ford Mustang, I don't want to see a Chevy Camero come up in the search results with the text "Not Mustang" to try and lure me away.
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by karnal · 2005-06-23 02:21 · Score: 1

Then you need to do a search on

Ford Mustang -chevrolet -chevy -camaro

The unfortunate thing is you will still see some auctions for mispellings.. "camero" in your original post, for instance.

--
Karnal
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by LaCosaNostradamus · 2005-06-23 02:57 · Score: 1

Using S&H as your actual profit margin has long been used in remote commerce. The $28 guy simply went too far in his search for profit, hence the judgment of insanity.

I knew a company that made airbrushing instruction videos and sold them directly to the buying public. They were blunt about the S&H being the profit margin.

--
[You have a stable society when some nut guns down a schoolyard and the law doesn't change.]
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by Tsu+Dho+Nimh · 2005-06-23 07:24 · Score: 1

I used to sell on eBay, and just put the estimated shipping weight in the ad, with the methods of shipping (whatever the item qualified for) I was willing to consider. I only charged "packing and handling" if it was something odd or required special packing methods.
Some stuff went USPS first class, some went USPS media mail, but one guy was in a HUGE hurry to get a 30-lb appliance and forked over the $$$ for FEDEX next-day air.

It made the customers happy that I wasn't turning shipping into a profit center.
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by Alaska+Jack · 2005-06-23 07:51 · Score: 1

You make several good points. Unlike most of my posts, I didn't really put a lot of thought into this one.

In my not-too-extensive experience with eBay, most sellers seem to have flat shipping rates on their items *anyway*. And those flat rates are generally, in my experience inflated -- even for Alaska, it only costs a few bucks to send a light item via the USPS regular Priority Mail.

If I was a seller, then, I guess I would just leave it up to the buyer to let me know how he wanted it shipped, and tack that cost on to the final price. That, I suppose, makes the most sense.

Another approach would be to set a reasonable minimum price, then say !!FREE SHIPPING!! in your subject line. The reasoning would be that people take the total cost (price + shipping) into account anyway, so bidwise it shouldn't make much difference, and you might actually get more bids.

I wonder if the eBay folks ever break down their numbers to see what works best.

- AJ
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by N3Bruce · 2005-06-23 11:20 · Score: 1

I always seem to put one strike against a merchant who is less than honest about their shipping charges, even if the total cost with shipping is competitive with other sellers who are more honest about their shipping costs. It makes me wonder what else they are being dishonest about. A couple of bucks over the cost of postage and packaging, normal USPS or UPS type stuff is not really a problem. Neither is the substantial time, effort, and expense a seller might go to using his own vehicle to deliver something like a car, boat, motorcycle, or other large piece of machinery, if I had the option to pick it up myself or arrange transportation.

It is the vendors of small objects like electronics, jewelry, etc. that ship the cheapest way possible and ship dozens of items a day, yet charge like they drove 20 miles just to FedEx your one bubblewrap envelope, marking up the actual cost by several hundred percent that get in my craw.
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by lorelorn · 2005-06-23 16:01 · Score: 1

If it's becoming widespread it's a good sign that eBay's prices have risen too high for the average small seller. Either eBay will have to backflip on the prices, or else buyers will have to learn that the real price is in the postage.
Re:eBay will fail unless it... by Ph33r+th3+g(O)at · 2005-07-01 03:47 · Score: 1

That behavior is included in eBay's definition of keyword spamming. Not that they'll do anything about it if you report it, mind you.

--
I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.

I don't know about other people... by Txiasaeia · 2005-06-22 10:16 · Score: 5, Interesting

...but Amazon is much easier for me to sell stuff than eBay ever was. Sign in, type in what item you want to sell, name a price, and that's that. Buyer pays Amazon, Amazon tells you to ship, you ship to buyer, Amazon pays you. The first time it takes a while, but after that it's extremely fast.

A.ca takes 15% off the top, but they give you a generous shipping allowance so it doesn't cut into your profit margins (and it's actually fair, so if you *buy* from a seller, that reasonable price stays reasonable b/c the seller can't jack up the price). Win-win for both buyer and seller. The kicker is that every time I've sold something with A.ca, it's taken at the longest a week before somebody's bought it.

eBay? Never again. I'm willing to pay 15% just so I never have to *think* about Paypal.

Disclaimer: I work for neither Amazon nor Google. I'm not getting paid for this. The reason I'm saying all this is because Amazon is the only company I've dealt with over the past few years that has made me feel like a human instead of a problem.

--
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.

Re:I don't know about other people... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 10:25 · Score: 2, Informative

Sign in, type in what item you want to sell...

..."Welcome to eBay! List the item you would like to sell!"

name a price, and that's that.

"Use our Buy It Now option to set an item at a desired price!"

Buyer pays Amazon, Amazon tells you to ship, you ship to buyer, Amazon pays you.

"Make payments easy using Paypal, Bidpay, or any other method of payment you deem appropriate!"

A.ca takes 15% off the top

"eBay fees depend on the starting and ending price of the item. See Table A..."
Re:I don't know about other people... by Txiasaeia · 2005-06-22 11:23 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm not aware of a site called "Amazonspaymentsystemsucks.com," nor have I heard any horror stories about Amazon stiffing customers.

--
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
Re:I don't know about other people... by boodaman · 2005-06-22 11:49 · Score: 4, Interesting

I've been using Paypal since 1998. As a seller and a buyer. I also have my iTunes account hooked up to it, and also use their ATM/debit/Mastercard. Transaction amounts have ranged from as little as $1.00 to as high as a couple thousand for a laptop.

I've never once, NOT ONCE, since 1998, had a problem with Paypal. The only issue I have with them is their practice of taking a couple extra days to credit my account, but this somewhat sneaky (it is only sneaky because I don't like it, they clearly state how long I might have to wait for my funds) practice is outweighed tremendously by the convenience of their service.

I've been mystified for years at all the complaints about how bad Paypal is...I've never experienced any evidence of it at all, and neither has anyone I know.

This makes me doubt the stories describing how bad Paypal is...I would think that in 7 years of use, me or someone I know would have experienced something bad if Paypal really was as bad as the stories describe.
Re:I don't know about other people... by museumpeace · 2005-06-22 12:03 · Score: 1

I haven't had the nerve to try paypal, despite its convenience. Reason: I get so damn many spams telling me to update paypal account user data [when I don't even have an account] that I just assume paypal is rife with phishy imitators, scammers and schemes or has lousy protection and security arrangements. Thats probably unfair but would you date a girl if you'd first met two dozen people who claimed they were pimping her?

on the other hand, as a buyer of, say cameras, from J Random Amazon-enabled seller, I have had excellent goods delivered promptly at rock bottom prices that I can quickly search and compare. I have the usual protections afforded credit card purchases...knock on wood, its a fine consumer experience.

--
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
Re:I don't know about other people... by saskboy · 2005-06-22 14:00 · Score: 1

I'm a frequent poster on eBay community Boards, and one eBay Pink [employee] once said that when an auction is reported for eBay to review if it's in violation of a rule, they take about "1 or 2 seconds" to look at it before removing it. This is horrible customer service as one removed auction can scare away bidders from a reputable seller, who perhaps has done nothing wrong, and has used a phrase that's either deemed as keyword spamming, or an invitation to trade off of eBay.

eBay seems to think that they'll always have enough new customers to replace those that they royally piss off, but humans aren't even reproducing that fast.

--
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Re:I don't know about other people... by LetterJ · 2005-06-22 14:36 · Score: 4, Interesting

Allow me to introduce myself (then you'll know someone with a Paypal problem), I'm J. Since you're relying on your anecdotes as evidence of Paypal's innocence, the $12,000 that was stolen from my credit cards and linked checking account, coupled with the fact that, even after they'd been notified that the transactions were fraudulent (which I had to tell them, even though all of the real banks involved notified me immediately), they tried to push the transactions through 2 more times (as a "convenience"), puts them in a pretty crappy category in my book. I, too, started using them in 1998. I, too, had their Mastercard. However, I had what you apparently see as a mythical bad experience with Paypal.

So, after signing over the naming rights to my backyard, I finally got a phone number to deal with them (note that all of the 10 or so real banks I currently have accounts with ALL have phone numbers readily available). Of course, Paypal's "dispute" resolution process is to lock all sides until *they* are satisfied that it was fraud. It actually took me nearly 6 months to convince them that, despite the fact that the most I'd moved around prior to that point was $400 and all of it domestic, I suddenly decided to transfer $12,000 to the Czech Republic at 3:00am on a Saturday. Once I finally convinced them that I wasn't the one who sent it, it took another 6 months to get the $150 or so I still had in the account.

Paypal wants to be treated like a real financial institution, but doesn't act like one.

--

The Glass is Too Big: My Take on Things
Re:I don't know about other people... by Luyseyal · 2005-06-22 15:01 · Score: 3, Insightful

> Paypal wants to be treated like a real financial institution, but doesn't act like one.

Slight modification: Paypal wants the respect that real financial institutions command, but without the very real legal liabilities that go along with it.

Cheers,
-l

--
Help cure AIDS, cancer, and more. Donate your unused computer time to worldcommunitygrid.org. Join Team Slashdot!
Re:I don't know about other people... by Fishstick · 2005-06-22 15:11 · Score: 3, Interesting

well, my experience directly contradicts that and my anecdotal evidence suggests that 100% of people I know using paypal had problems.

I opened an account using a card I got specifically for online purchases. I was a first time bidder on eBay and saw that the seller only took paypal. I opened the account, but never used it (didn't win the auction, never had occasion to use it).

Months later I got a cc bill with all kinds of charges from $50-$500 all to paypal over a couple weeks for a total of around $2,600. I called up the cc company and reported the fraud. They did not seem surprised/skeptical in the least and immediately canceled the card, credited the charges and issued a new card. They sent out a form for me to fill out and sign -- that was it.

Since then I've gotten all kinds of email from paypal telling me that my card is expired. I tried once or twice to contact them to have them cancel my account with no response. Eventually I got a new email address when Comcast took over ATTBI and I've obviously never heard from them again.

I still have no idea how someone was able to use my account, but they apparently bought a bunch of stuff online and the cc company must have ended up eating it.

My brother-in-law also had bad charges show up through paypal. He is the only other person I know who used paypal and in both cases we had problems.

This makes me doubt the stories of people who claim that they have used paypal and never had a problem, or even heard of anyone they know having a problem.

--
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
Re:I don't know about other people... by oirtemed · 2005-06-22 15:59 · Score: 1

BS, theres no way they are removing auctions on any sort of regular basis. Have you seen the obvious BS scam shit on there?
Re:I don't know about other people... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 16:00 · Score: 0

Amazon attempted to stiff me out of $40, except I had previously contacted my bank to ensure that would not happen. They decided a buyer's inability to read was somehow a valid complaint and informed me they would be refunding the buyer and debiting me. I told them I would have no problem refunding the buyer once the textbook was returned to me (and not at my expense either, since the buyer clearly could not read (so I wonder what they would do with a textbook)). They told me that that part wasn't their problem, that they were going to refund the buyer and getting the book back was my problem. I informed them that they were free to refund the buyer at their own expense, but that no one was getting any money from me without a book. Amazon reiterated the same demands like a broken record so I told them I considered the sale to be final, told them to close my Amazon Payments account and ensured they had no further access to funds. I'm not going to deal with them if they have such ridiculous policies that anyone who wanted to could steal books from me by simply "complaining" and getting a refund then not returning the book.
I don't shop there anymore either. Amazon, as a company, can go fuck themselves.

Oh and the book showed up three months later with an incredibly poorly scrawled and extremely wrong address (again, making me wonder why they wanted a textbook). I sent Amazon an email telling them I had their book (since I assume they refunded the buyer and the book belongs to them now) and asking what I should do with it. I told them they could send a return envelope to me, or I could just see about sending it postage due. I also mentioned I would be looking up the abandoned property laws in my state just in case. That was almost six weeks ago, I haven't heard back.
Re:I don't know about other people... by michaelhood · 2005-06-22 16:08 · Score: 5, Informative

The year was 2001, a client wanted a simple way to wire me money for remote consulting services I was providing. I suggested PayPal, and helped him to configure an account.

When he would pay me, he would send approximately $150-250 through PayPal. This occured 8 times.

When I received the funds in my PayPal account, there was never any indicator of how he provided funds to PayPal, nor did I think I should care.

Approximately 6-8 months after the last transaction, I logged into my PayPal account prompted by an e-mail I received from them.

My account balance was -$1300 and some change. After calling PayPal to figure out what happened, I found out that the client had disputed the charges.

He worked out of his home, I called and reached his wife. His credit card had been stolen and he charged back any transactions he didn't recognize.

When I called again to reach him, I couldn't seem to communicate what had happened. (He was rather non-technical). He thought that other charges he saw on his account were the ones for me, but these were checks he had written for another matter. He refused to "double-pay me."

So, since PayPal doesn't bother to check with merchants or ask any questions whatsoever before charging back transactions, I'm out some $1300.

I call PayPal, they tell me they need proof of shipping. The funds were sent and labeled as 'for services'! I questioned this, and they seemed confused, and then said they needed proof of shipment, again.

I'll let you draw your own conclusions from this story. I'm tired of writing, but google around and see how MasterCard or Visa handles chargebacks with their merchants. PayPal is NOT a financial institution, by any definition.
Re:I don't know about other people... by saskboy · 2005-06-22 17:36 · Score: 1

They remove auctions all of the time. If you report one, there's a better than 50% chance it'll be gone within 24 hours. The problem is many people don't report the scams, because there are so many of them, literally 10s of thousands at a time.

eBay does limitted scam scanning, but clearly as you say it's not enough to clean eBay up.

--
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Re:I don't know about other people... by moonbender · 2005-06-22 17:56 · Score: 1

I'd like to echo this sentiment from the buyer side. I love buying stuff through the Amazon marketplace. Mostly because paying works without any intervention on my part and because, as I was shocked to find out, the shipping rates are fixed. At a sensible level, even, unlike that guy on eBay who charged me roughly 3 times the money he spent - bah. It's just way more straightforward than eBay.

--
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
Re:I don't know about other people... by saskboy · 2005-06-22 18:03 · Score: 1

Your good fortune so far will make your downfall with them seem even more catastrophic. I feel sorry for you, in a future-tense sort of way.

--
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Re:I don't know about other people... by Bitsy+Boffin · 2005-06-22 18:21 · Score: 1

I'll give you a conclusion - your client ripped you off intentionally. I'd almost guarantee it.

Here's what happened - client decides he doesn't want to pay you, and will chargeback so he goes to his bank and initiates chargeback (the story of stolen card is bogus). BANK doesn't do it's job and make sure the chargeback is legit and pushes it through. Paypal, the merchant who charged the card has the $1300 removed from thier bank, they probably also get a chargeback fee.

Paypal then, $1300+ down, removes that from your account since they already gave you the money. They leave it to you to contact YOUR client and get YOUR money back from THE CLIENT, Paypal is now out of the picture except that you owe them that $1300 which you already took from them.

What would you have Paypal do, just eat chargebacks?

--
NZ Electronics Enthusiasts: Check out my Trade Me Listings
Re:I don't know about other people... by Skynyrd · 2005-06-22 18:43 · Score: 1

They remove auctions all of the time. If you report one, there's a better than 50% chance it'll be gone within 24 hours.

I have reported many, many auctions with keyword spamming (mostly automotive) and not a single one has ever been removed (I check).
Re:I don't know about other people... by muffdivr · 2005-06-22 19:01 · Score: 0

I've been using Paypal since 1998. As a seller and a buyer. I also have my iTunes account hooked up to it, and also use their ATM/debit/Mastercard. Transaction amounts have ranged from as little as $1.00 to as high as a couple thousand for a laptop. You are a liar - PayPal started in 1999, and did not catch on till 2000. Fukkin shill :-) http://searchviews.com/archives/2005/06/google_wal let_e.php
Re:I don't know about other people... by rhuntley12 · 2005-06-22 20:38 · Score: 1

My family and everyone I know hasn't had a problem either, that is until I had someone charge back an item to me. That was pure hell, I stopped selling online because of it.
Re:I don't know about other people... by michaelhood · 2005-06-22 22:00 · Score: 1

I agree, it seems to be a BS story. I was just keeping to facts, which is why I said I'd let everyone draw their own conclusions. I didn't want to muddy the waters with inferences.

PayPal was the merchant in the transaction. The CC processor would have notified them of a chargeback and given them the chance to dispute it. They should have then contacted me so that PayPal and I could work together in resolving the matter.
Re:I don't know about other people... by Dogtanian · 2005-06-22 22:59 · Score: 1

Unfortunately, your argument involved quoting eBay's own spiel from their website. The reality is...

eBay makes you do all the work in making your item presentable, which right off the bat is a PITA if, like me, you don't sell much.

Paypal has a lousy reputation (as many other replies to your message have indicated); I really do *not* want to deal with a separate transaction system that has a reputation for yanking money back on the basis of spurious complaints. If I go with cheques, my item is less popular, and I have to cash the things.

'Buy it now' is fine, but I'm not convinced that the kind of people who are willing to 'buy it now' instead of bidding aren't more likely to be checking the item out on Amazon (if you're buying a book, are you more likely to check out Amazon, or dig through various eBay auctions with information in varying formats?). Maybe better for higher value stuff.

In addition, I think the 'Buy it now'-ers (for the kind of stuff I'd be selling) are more likely to see my item on a *free* 60-day (renewable) listing with Amazon than they are with a paid 10-day auction on eBay.

Yes, Amazon charge more, but if I have to keep relisting on eBay, it's going to be more than my time, let alone money, is worth.

The main drawback with Amazon is that you can only really sell things that they sell, in the *form* that they sell. I had a bundle of old computer games that I really didn't want to bin (but at the same time I didn't want to hoard around for the rest of my life); I couldn't sell them on Amazon, so I tried eBay.

Cut a long story short, it took a long time to get them presentable, it cost me money to list them. One of the two bundles sold for better than I'd hoped, and the guy seemed very happy with his purchase. The other sold for the minimum bid (i.e. next-to-nothing), which wasn't great, but it happens. Unfortunately, the bidder wasted my time and never paid (despite the fact she was basically getting them for the cost of postage and packing); I left negative feedback because I took the effort to package the goods for the buyer, help them out and resolve any problems. I still don't know *why* the heck they bid if they were really that disinterested- she left negative feedback for me; I replied to her negative feedback, and she took *her* entire feedback list private (which at least I can point out in the future to anyone else).

Bottom line; I'll stick with Amazon. eBay is only worth your time if you have a lot to sell.

--
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Re:I don't know about other people... by grazzy · 2005-06-22 23:48 · Score: 1

Well, also remember that paypal charges a fee (x2) for chargebacks. First you as the client has to pay for recieving the 1300, then you have to pay 2.5% (or whatever it is) again.

I lost 150 usd this way. Not to mention the 2000 i lost for being ripped of by my "customer".

Paypay might have it reasons, it doesnt stop them from sucking. Big. Donkey. Balls.
Re:I don't know about other people... by Corporal+Dan · 2005-06-23 01:40 · Score: 1

As long as he was in the same country as you, wouldn't it have been easier for him to simply mail you a check? Stick to the tried and trusted methods of payment rather than those new-fangled technological solutions when it comes to money...
Re:I don't know about other people... by pizzaman100 · 2005-06-23 02:26 · Score: 1

I've sold a few books/tapes/etc on Amazon Marketplace. One issue I've seen is that the buyers rarely leave feedback (unless of course they have a negative experience). From my transactions on Ebay, I'd say 75%+ of the people leave feedback for transactions. For Amazon it's under 50%. I don't know why this is, as Amazon's feedback system seems more advanced than ebay's. Any ideas?
Re:I don't know about other people... by fallen1 · 2005-06-23 03:17 · Score: 1

I have NEVER had a problem with PayPal but I, like others, have heard the stories about those people with severe problems at PayPal. So, here is what I did and what I suggest anyone else dealing with PayPal do:

1) Set up a secondary bank account with only enough money to pay the fees on the account (for instance, my bank only charges me $5.00 per month for my PayPal only checking account so I only put $60 in the account) and link that account - and ONLY that account - to PayPal.
2) Whenever you buy something using PayPal, transfer money from your primary account into the PayPal only account and then send the money via PayPal.
3) Whenever you sell something and the seller pays you via PayPal, as SOON as the money hits your PayPal only account remove it from the account and then deposit it into your primary account.
4) IF you ever have problems with PayPal wanting to freeze your account or try to pull money out of your account or anything else (and you have been diligent about emptying your PayPal only account at your bank), then the only damn thing PayPal will get is whatever money you had in that account. Which, in my case, is never more than $60.00 unless I was about to pay for something with PayPal or someone paid me and I have not removed it.

Basically, this is a big FUCK YOU! to PayPal for not acting in a responsible manner. This will alleviate any chargebacks by PayPal since once your account you have with PayPal reaches $0 then the bank _should_ reject any further requests for money from that account and thus no -$xxxx.xx. Basically, I'll be out $60 and I will then close that account with my bank, open up a new one, and if necessary create another PayPal account. If PayPal can't be a responsible company and account for chargebacks, fraud, and other related sundries then there is no reason for me to leave them money in an account to take at their whim.

--
Dream as if you'll live forever.
Live as if you'll die tomorrow.
~Anonymous~
Re:I don't know about other people... by Dogtanian · 2005-06-23 03:18 · Score: 1

My guess is that customers are using Amazon Marketplace in a semi-transparent manner, as a cheaper alternative to Amazon themselves. This ties in with what was said elsewhere about Amazon making sellers more anonymous- Amazon doesn't involve the "personal" interest in sellers; they're just businesses that happen to sell what you want at a particular price.

At any rate, I got 40-50% feedback from Amazon (all 5 stars) without playing the silly-buggers 'Mutually Assured Destruction' feedback game as happens on eBay.

I've *never* had problems selling stuff on Amazon. eBay might have benefits for some people, but it's just not worth the hassle for me.

--
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Re:I don't know about other people... by LaCosaNostradamus · 2005-06-23 04:45 · Score: 1

You may be mystified, but there's NO dismissing the numerous testimonials about confiscation of money from Paypal accounts with no recourse other than to sue. So it's not a matter of a few bad things happening during the normal course of business due to misunderstanding, lost paperwork, and some contention. It's a matter of what happens to you when Paypal UNILATERALLY decides you are some sort of risk or scammer. Then you're screwed since the testimonials indicate that they take all your fund money and essentially never give it back. THAT is the problem -- whether or not it happens to you or anyone you know.

I will never use Paypal for those reasons. There is no protection for confiscation of small accounts since the cost of a lawsuit is relatively large. Where the only recourse is the legal system, the REAL cost of using Paypal rises dramatically.

--
[You have a stable society when some nut guns down a schoolyard and the law doesn't change.]
Re:I don't know about other people... by saskboy · 2005-06-23 04:56 · Score: 1

They perhaps are less trigger happy [and worse at customer support] on eBay Motors.
I've known people with minor, or no violations have auctions removed just because they were reported by someone mean looking to cause trouble, or a competitor looking to be mean.

With trained eBay monkies taking only 2 seconds to review a report, it's no wonder they make frequent mistakes.

--
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Re:I don't know about other people... by Jucius+Maximus · 2005-06-23 05:07 · Score: 1

"I'm not aware of a site called "Amazonspaymentsystemsucks.com," nor have I heard any horror stories about Amazon stiffing customers."
The problem with amazon is that their DVD sections (marketplace only) are rife with bootlegs, fraudulent copies, knock-offs, etc. Look up any DVD classified as "anime" and any seasoned buyer will spot 95% of the items as boots.

There's no easy way to alert amazon or other shoppers about the bootleg sellers and amazon probably does not want to know because they make money from every sale. Considering the thousands of feedback each one of these bootleg importers has gotten, I shudder to think of how many people thought all such products are garbage and then avoided the legitimate, high quality and more expensive releases.
Re:I don't know about other people... by memprime · 2005-06-23 09:27 · Score: 1

I do like the fact that Amazon has flat shipping rates, but when you have a 20 volume set of *heavy, you should only find these in libraries* books, $2.26 is not going to cover it.
Re:I don't know about other people... by boodaman · 2005-06-23 11:38 · Score: 1

I guess that's the difference between you and I...I don't keep $12,000 in an account hooked to Paypal, so even if I did experience what you experienced, the total amount of grief would probably be a lot less.

I mean, seriously...you deal with 10 other banks? That's what, 10-20 other accounts? Who has that many accounts? From my perspective, you're already telling me something sketchy just by admitting you have that many accounts. It certainly isn't "normal" in my part of the world to have that many accounts at that many banks.

So, I hope you can see why I would be skeptical of any such stories.

I have one account tied to Paypal. I only keep enough money in there to cover whatever I'm going to do...the rest of my money is in a savings account (where it should be). Transferring money from savings to the account tied to Paypal is a simple phone call that I can make from anywhere. Nice, clean, FDIC insured, no worries...if moeny gets taken from my savings account (which isn't tied to Paypal at all), it isn't my concern, it is my bank's.
Re:I don't know about other people... by boodaman · 2005-06-23 11:44 · Score: 1

I don't know how you work, but when people put money in my Paypal account, I don't keep it there. I move it somewhere else. Is it just me, or is the common thread in all these Paypal-sucks stories that people are a bit less than diligent? Paypal has never told me they were a bank. They've never acted like a bank, and I've never treated them like a bank. I've treated them just like I've treated every other online merchant I've dealt with: minimize exposure at all times, and treat each transaction atomically. So far, it is working for me.
Re:I don't know about other people... by boodaman · 2005-06-23 11:51 · Score: 1

If my balance over 2 or 3 days is never over $50 or so...how catastrophic can it be? There must be some weird underground way of using Paypal that all you folks use...do people really keep thousands of dollars (or even hundreds) in their Paypal account? Why? Paypal isn't a bank!! Do people really hook their Paypal account up to a bank account containing their life savings??? Who would do that??
Re:I don't know about other people... by boodaman · 2005-06-23 11:54 · Score: 1

I wonder what it is about my account that has kept Paypal from deciding I am a scammer. I've moved a couple thousand in and out a couple of times, purchasing hardware. I sell, I buy. What is it about my account that shows Paypal I'm not a problem? What is it that other people do that signals Paypal they might be doing something strange? Those are the real questions. But nobody answers them, they just say "Paypal sucks!"
Re:I don't know about other people... by LetterJ · 2005-06-23 13:02 · Score: 1

They didn't actually GET $12,000 out of those accounts because, unlike Paypal, most banks and credit cards DO consider it their concern and did so in this case, stopping the transactions. I have nothing but praise for my banks and credit card companies. There was only about $200, directly in the bank account, but there was a secondary savings account that apparently was set up with some sort of rollover overdraft protection. You may be surprised how many banks, when you set up checking and savings accounts will "help" by rolling money over from one to another to prevent overdrafts. The credit cards had limits of something like $4000-10000 each. The $12,000 is what the total of transactions initiated was. The banks stopped pretty much all of them before there was any real damage. The fact it was a Friday night/Saturday morning helped out too as none of the transactions would have been real until Monday anyway, giving me time to sort it out with the real financial institutions. Paypal was another story.

Do I have that many accounts? Yes. I also am co-owner in 2 corporations and a partnership. My wife and I each maintain checking accounts, have 1 together, seperate savings and joint savings, several credit cards, lines of credit, mortgages, SEP IRA's, investment accounts (short, mid and long term), student loans, business accounts, business expense accounts, business credit cards, another one of each for each business, money market accounts, 401k's, a couple of IRA's that haven't been rolled over to somewhere else, a car loan, etc.. Each bank and account fits the need at hand and it's all managed by my accountant and financial advisor. I probably carry 10 credit cards from 5-6 companies in my wallet alone.

See, to me, the fact you see dealing with 10 financial institutions as "sketchy" leads me to just as quick a knee-jerk reaction indicating that you may not have dealings with anyone in business or are just starting out on your own. Statements like

MOST of the people I know have at least 6-7 accounts with various financial institutions and many have the same 10-20 that I do with quite a few having enough to dwarf what I've got for accounts. I know of at least 3 people that I see at least once a week who had tax bills (after payroll contributions) over $7500 this year. I know one person who wrote a check to the IRS for $75,000 this year.

The simple reality is that once someone gets past living from paycheck to paycheck, there frequently are a lot of financial institutions one ends up dealing with. Every few years, I tend to try to consolidate stuff together, but it isn't a huge priority. 10 is really easy to get to: 2 checking (joint and personal), 2 personal credit cards (one Citibank for the miles, one Chase for carrying a balance for 2-3 months when necessary), a mortgage (Wells Fargo), a student loan (Sallie Mae), a 0% car loan (GMAC), a store credit card (Best Buy/Circuit City), a 401K (Putnam) and a money market stock account (Scottrade). That's 10 and there's not even a single business in there yet. Just typical American middle class setup.

Also keep in mind that you don't have to just believe me. Check out the class action lawsuits that have not only been filed, but settled. Check out the fights they've had with the banking laws in this country. Check out just how hard they work to hide their phone numbers and keep customers at arm's length. They truly are a company trying to get something for nothing.

--

The Glass is Too Big: My Take on Things
Re:I don't know about other people... by michaelhood · 2005-06-24 00:24 · Score: 1

This is exactly what I did, but I can't create another PayPal account. It checks my SSN and finds my old account.
Re:I don't know about other people... by michaelhood · 2005-06-24 00:26 · Score: 1

Um, I didn't keep any money in the PayPal account. I'm not sure how you inferred that from my story. The point is, they sent my PayPal account deep into the negatives. I had used a seperate bank account just for PayPal, so they couldn't take it from my bank. Now I can't use PayPal at all, not like I'd want to.
Re:I don't know about other people... by mink · 2005-06-24 06:31 · Score: 1

This is different from Ebay how?
As far as I can tell Ebay actually encourages scams and rip-offs as they get a cut no matter what.

--
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Re:I don't know about other people... by mink · 2005-06-24 06:38 · Score: 1

I've tried getting a few HK bootleg GBA cart scammers shut down, even went as far as buying one to show as proof and ebay took no action.

--
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Re:I don't know about other people... by gcatullus · 2005-06-27 01:23 · Score: 1

Just to let you know this isn't a fault only with Paypal. Any credit card company will also bounce back any charges without a signed slip that the customer admits signing. I run a gas station and almost monthly we have someone dispute credit card charges from the pay at the pumps. Mastercard/visa will charge back to me anything that a customer disputes, because I don't have a signed slip. At times even a signed slip has been charged back because teh customer disputes the signature.
Re:I don't know about other people... by Jucius+Maximus · 2005-06-27 13:56 · Score: 1

That's my whole point.

Ebay Policy by LittleGuernica · 2005-06-22 10:16 · Score: 5, Funny

Ebay's policies are also getting ridicilous lately, tried to sell my kidney that looked like it had the face of the messiah in it, but they didn't let me..

Re:Ebay Policy by LiquidCoooled · 2005-06-22 10:58 · Score: 1

Next time, don't mention giving free Live8 tickets along with your kidney.

--
liqbase :: faster than paper
Re:Ebay Policy by temojen · 2005-06-22 11:42 · Score: 1

Probably figured you'd be to drugged up to put it in the mail after un-installing your kidney.
Re:Ebay Policy by GermanShorthair · 2005-06-22 12:27 · Score: 0

THere's some freeware at download.com for that.

--
Karma: Bad

curious.. by PopeAlien · 2005-06-22 10:16 · Score: 4, Insightful

So people selling things are choosing ways that make them the most profit?

Bizzare.

--
air and light and time and space

Re:curious.. by jfengel · 2005-06-22 10:38 · Score: 2, Insightful

It is remarkable. eBay is an auction site, which in theory is the best way to make a profit. eBay's overhead should be fairly low, since they're just running a web engine (as opposed to having a large warehouse, manufacturing, inventory, and fulfilment employees) and therefore its prices should be low.

And for years people established businesses there, and it was a good way for people to make a business selling stuff without the overhead of having their own web site. This article says that's changing and examines why.

So maximizing profit isn't news, but abandoning eBay sure is.
Re:curious.. by robertjw · 2005-06-22 11:03 · Score: 2, Interesting

So maximizing profit isn't news, but abandoning eBay sure is.

Yes and no. It's news because eBay dominates the market, but it's not news if you look at it objectively. eBay has been on top for a while, but it's not a perfect system. New buyers are frustrated with snipers and crazy shipping prices that sneak up on them, sellers are irritated by Paypal issues and eBay constantly raising prices. Other sites are managing to catch up with eBay's technology so users are looking for some new places to do business. Perfectly natural.

--
Find coupons in Greeley
Re:curious.. by MightyMartian · 2005-06-22 11:27 · Score: 1

My experience with EBay is that a lot of sellers build their profits into the shipping. Some of the shipping amounts are simply outrageous. Of course, I'm not precisely sure what EBay can do about that. The real solution is for the consumer to say "I'd buy your widget, but $20 shipping on a ten ounce item is just robbery, so I'm passing."

--
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.

"distuptions" by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 10:17 · Score: 0

me fail english?

Re:"distuptions" by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 10:57 · Score: 0

thats unpossible!

Maybe over the long term this will hurt. by WebHostingGuy · 2005-06-22 10:17 · Score: 4, Interesting

EBay, with more than 147 million users world-wide

With this sort of penetration any impact will be neglible for quite a while. There are still a ton of people trying to emulate the largest person to person for sale site.
eBay increases their fees because they can. If they thought these other places were such a direct threat yet they wouldn't do so. There will be a time this combination will be a large threat, but not yet.

--
Quality Hosting e3 Servers

Re:Maybe over the long term this will hurt. by robertjw · 2005-06-22 11:14 · Score: 1

With this sort of penetration any impact will be neglible for quite a while.

Maybe, but perception on the Net is everything. As soon as people start bailing they will do so in droves. It would be in eBay's best interest to keep people happy and not encourage them to look elsewhere. I wonder how long it will be before Google comes up with a full fledged auction site that competes seriously with eBay.

--
Find coupons in Greeley

Slashdot readers leaving for CNN by coopaq · 2005-06-22 10:19 · Score: 0

After so many distuptions in spelling, /. readers heading to cnn.com to get their tech news.

Maybe eBay will finally start policing it's own by antifoidulus · 2005-06-22 10:20 · Score: 4, Insightful

network. I know other outlets aren't immune to frauds, but ebay is fucking rediculous. Whenever I am looking for anything substantial(for instance iBook, xbox etc) I have to sort by highest price first. Why? Because an overwhelming majority of the auctions are for "Information on how to get a free iBook!" or "iBook for 40 dollars". Ebay doesn't have to legally police it's network for those types of fraud, but I think their lax policies are going to harm them.

Not to mention the huge number of grey market items on eBay. I don't want to buy anime off of there because a majority of the DVDs are Chinese bootlegs. I would rather download them than buy the bootlegs....

--
Monstar L

Re:Maybe eBay will finally start policing it's own by mister_llah · 2005-06-22 10:25 · Score: 1

I realize there will be a lack of content if I say what I intend to say, but I agree so incredibly I will just say this.

Amen. ;)

--
MoM++ - A Classic Expanded - [Master of Magic 1.5]
http://mompp.sourceforge.net/
Re:Maybe eBay will finally start policing it's own by Florian+Weimer · 2005-06-22 10:32 · Score: 1

There's also the problem that Ebay's business operation creates lots of small fraud cases, which binds law enforcement ressources. I don't think it's fair that Ebay tries to shrug off all responsibility and to burden society as a whole with the resulting costs. After all, they don't pay any taxes over here.
Re:Maybe eBay will finally start policing it's own by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 10:37 · Score: 0

Another annoyance: iBook buy it now price $1, shipping/handling: $999.
Re:Maybe eBay will finally start policing it's own by KaiserSoze · 2005-06-22 10:42 · Score: 3, Informative

I can't "Me Too" the parent enough. Back in 1999-2000 I bought and sold many, many items off of eBay (at least many, many cheap electronics and trading cards based on my college budget). Right around 2002, however, I slowed my browsing and now I haven't even gone to the website for over a year. The reason: any non-trivial item I want to look for (laptop, camcorder, digital camera, LCD projector) is infected with frustrating-as-hell spam reading "GET ITEM X FOR FREEE!!!!11!" eBay, for all intents and purposes, has been hijacked by the no-product "FOR FREE"-guide spammers and extremely high volume power sellers. It is just really hard to wade through the crap to find some guy who's just selling his camcorder because he doesn't want it anymore.

--
"What we elect to call imagination is mere combination of things not heretofore combined." - Frank Norris
Re:Maybe eBay will finally start policing it's own by oakgrove · 2005-06-22 11:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

Just for the record: the reason people do that is to avoid the exhorbitant final value fees ebay charges on the selling price as ebay doesn't charge any percentage of the shipping price. So if the FVF was 15 percent, that would be $0.15 for a 1 dollar sale. And the $999 for shipping would be yours to keep. If you were to sell the ibook for $999 and a nominal shipping fee, you would be charged $150 as a commission. Big difference obviously.

--
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
Re:Maybe eBay will finally start policing it's own by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 11:58 · Score: 0

Your comments on ebay are true, but the Amazon stores aren't exactly free from bootleg DVDs. And they're just as bad as Ebay about taking down pirate sellers - even if you can prove it, they just don't want to know.
Re:Maybe eBay will finally start policing it's own by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 12:09 · Score: 0

Yes, but if you "have a problem" with the box of bricks that the seller sends instead, you may have trouble recovering that $999 shipping charge.
Re:Maybe eBay will finally start policing it's own by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 12:14 · Score: 0

Thats would be all good if the item wasn't listed as "iBOOK FOR $1!!!! AMAZING DEAL!!!!! BUYNOW!!!" and the $999 shipping buried in the tiny print somewhere deep on the page.
Re:Maybe eBay will finally start policing it's own by barna · 2005-06-22 12:42 · Score: 0

Well if the item doesn't match the description (i.e. it's a bootleg instead of the real DVD), can't you get back your money and leave negative feedback? Why not only buy from sellers with a good number of positive feedback?

But I agree with your main point. If I was eBay, I would experiment with a flagging system, like Craigslist does, but more sophisticated.
Re:Maybe eBay will finally start policing it's own by billsoxs · 2005-06-22 14:47 · Score: 1

Why not only buy from sellers with a good number of positive feedback?
Because the way eBay is set up IF YOU LEAVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK the seller can ban you from buying from them. (It happened to me with Sears on eBay! - After I had bought a number of items from them with all positive feedbacks, they sent me a broken item and then treated me like dirt, so I complained in my feedback - Based on my very bad experience, I won't even go to the local Sears store anymore.) This makes it such that you can not trust the eBay 'ratings'. This a fundamental problem with eBay.

--
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Re:Maybe eBay will finally start policing it's own by oirtemed · 2005-06-22 16:04 · Score: 1

I agree the feedback system is fundamentally flawed but wtf are you saying? So they will refuse to do business with you cause you left negative feedback? Well...I dont see much problem with that....burning bridges.... What Id like to see is bans for all the: If you post negative, ill post negative.
Re:Maybe eBay will finally start policing it's own by Mr2001 · 2005-06-22 16:18 · Score: 1

That's an explanation, but it's no excuse. Sellers who charge high shipping prices rarely provide the kind of high-quality shipping service those prices would suggest.

For example: I recently bought an item with a winning bid of about $3.50, and a shipping price of $6.95. For a shipping cost that high on such a small item (a set of cell phone cables), I expect tracking numbers and no longer than 3 business days for it to arrive. Instead, it was sent USPS First Class for about $1.50 - no tracking numbers, and I was told to wait up to 15 business days. It took over three weeks before I received the item.

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Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
Re:Maybe eBay will finally start policing it's own by mike.newton · 2005-06-22 17:14 · Score: 1

Don't just complain about it here. Tell eBay about it!
If everyone commenting in this article took 15 minutes to report all the listing policy violations they found, that would send a message to them.

I send about 15 or 20 reports a month. Don't know how many of them get taken down though. My latest report decided he was going to charge $250 shipping for his LCD monitor. But he'll take $20 if you pick it up. What a deal!
Re:Maybe eBay will finally start policing it's own by ImaLamer · 2005-06-22 20:57 · Score: 1

Whenever I am looking for anything substantial(for instance iBook, xbox etc) I have to sort by highest price first.

My younger brother got hit with my favorite eBay scam a few years ago. The seller said they had 6000 PS2's and Xbox's, the auction started at $1. Since they only filled ~4000 of those orders it closed at $1.

My brother says "Why not" and sends the dollar, thinking that he *might* actually get the Xbox and PS2 for a buck. Of course he didn't - and no one else did either. Since it was only a buck, no one bothers to complain, meanwhile the seller collects around 4000 bucks.

--
Get your Unix fortune now!

None of them are worth it by DogDude · 2005-06-22 10:21 · Score: 4, Interesting

The problem is this... all 3 of these aggregators (Ebay, Yahoo, and Amazon) all focus solely on price. Anybody who knows anything about business knows that competing on price is a very, very bad idea. It's almost always a losing battle. On top of that, the fees that these sites charge for selling are outrageous. We've decided to use *none* of them, and instead sell on our own. We get to keep our profit margins, and we get to offer real information to our buyers. We may not be the cheapest to the nickel, but honestly, that's not the kind of business we want. People who are pinching pennies are not the kind of customers you want because there's 0% loyalty... and that's what these agrregators strive for... making the sellers relatively anonymous, and focusing *only* on price. Amazon, eBay, and Yahoo will always be good for small sellers that don't have the means to set up a web site, credit card processing, etc, but once you can do all of that, it makes no sense to work with these big guys, where you'll just be a number in a crowd.

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I don't respond to AC's.

Re:None of them are worth it by ericspinder · 2005-06-22 21:57 · Score: 1

Anybody who knows anything about business knows that competing on price is a very, very bad idea. It's almost always a losing battle.
*Cough*, Walmart does fairly well focusing on price. Really with the online auction sites the seller is focused on price the site, but the site operator can be focused on price (like eBay) or service (like Amazon). It just depends on how much the seller is willing to pay.
Trouble with the "we'll sell anything for anybody" business is that their business reputation is hinged on keeping the scammers out. Ebay lost that fight, and because of that Amazon gets the next shot. My quess is the the 'online auction' business model needs a lot of real physical oversight (i.e. don't skimp on the call centers) and a willingness to write off some small losses.

--
The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
Re:None of them are worth it by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-23 08:50 · Score: 0

And that is one of the reasons why I shop at Target. I would rather pay the slightly higher price than put up with all of the "crap" that is Wal-Mart.

(I am only comparing Wal-Mart and Target in NJ)

What's wrong with PayPal? by mcho · 2005-06-22 10:21 · Score: 1

It's like asking a group of people whether they like Windows or Linux, but what's wrong with PayPal? I don't see why some swear by it and others swear at it...

--
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Re:What's wrong with PayPal? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 10:24 · Score: 1, Interesting

Paypal is excellent unless you happen to be one of these guys.
Re:What's wrong with PayPal? by Detritus · 2005-06-22 10:28 · Score: 4, Informative

I haven't had a problem with them, but see http://www.paypalsucks.com/.

--
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Re:What's wrong with PayPal? by AutopsyReport · 2005-06-22 10:38 · Score: 1, Informative

Paypal is great for convenience, but terrible for selling in conjunction with Ebay. I've had several unfounded claims laid against me, and despite winning all of them, they locked funds out of my account for over a month to resolve each dispute. Any Paypal user who bought and paid something through Ebay & Paypal respectively can file an unfounded dispute and potentially get their money back, plus keep the product.
I had a buyer purchase something from me, and they demanded a full refund, but refused to send the product back. So what did they do? They filed a dispute, and the same day the funds were withdrawn from my account to be placed on hold. Great. I ended up winning the dispute (thankfully) after a month of deliberations, but I spoke with several Paypal represenatives, and all expressed the simple fact: as a seller, you have no securities unless you purchase protection policies. For buyers, they can get their money back without purchasing any policies. Unfair, yes, but just something you learn the hard way...

Otherwise, Paypal has been a great system for me. Could be better, could be worse, but it's not much different than a typical financial institution in that respect.

--
For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.
Re:What's wrong with PayPal? by CAIMLAS · 2005-06-22 11:06 · Score: 1

In essence, they operate with the guise of a bank but without any of the restrictions or responsibilities of a bank.

They can and will freeze funds for pretty much any reason they want, simply because someone at Ebay told them to. They'll freeze your entire account, and sometimes take your account away entirely (so I've heard) for selling things on ebay which skirt the line of Ebay's policy.

And, since they're not a bank, they're not reqiured to pay interest at all, as banks are, and are thus able to use the huge sums of money sitting in paypal accounts to invest or loan out to make themselves money at an even higher rate.

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~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Re:What's wrong with PayPal? by Momoru · 2005-06-22 11:08 · Score: 1

PayPal is currently the easiest cheapest way to accept credit cards on your web site as far as I can tell...I used to use a well known credit card merchant and they really ate into my profits, paypal takes a much lower cut compared to most credit companies...but they do have some evil "merchant is always wrong policies", where someone makes a fraudulent charge, and not only do I have to give them the money back I have to pay PayPal a $10 fee as well for my trouble....Merchants should not have to suffer for PayPals lack of fraud detection. Anyone know of a better alternative?
Re:What's wrong with PayPal? by Rude+Turnip · 2005-06-22 11:33 · Score: 1

Banks aren't required to pay interest (at least on checking accounts).

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Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Re:What's wrong with PayPal? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · 2005-06-22 11:36 · Score: 1

And, since they're not a bank, they're not reqiured to pay interest at all

Since when are banks required to pay interest?

--
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
Re:What's wrong with PayPal? by thatnerdguy · 2005-06-22 11:44 · Score: 1

use an actual credit card processor. (Just not Cardsystems, or whatever they are called)

--
I saw the Sign, and it opened up my eyes
Re:What's wrong with PayPal? by Momoru · 2005-06-22 11:47 · Score: 1

Got one you can recommend? I already went down that road, and ended up paying through the teeth with fees and BS.
Re:What's wrong with PayPal? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 13:25 · Score: 0

Not the OP, but we use Paymentech and have had ZERO problems with them. I'm not sure what kind of fees you had, but paymentech's fees are competitive(as of the last time we looked into it). Also, have had no BS.

Unless you're running a shady business. In that case, stick to paypal. Paypal is the shady businessmans best friend.
Re:What's wrong with PayPal? by kihjin · 2005-06-22 14:25 · Score: 1

Same. At least, until I read this:

Important Message PayPal's BillPay service will be discontinued in early August, 2005. If you currently use BillPay, you will need to make other arrangements for your online bill payments prior to August to avoid any interruption in service. We regret any inconvenience this may cause, and we will send you periodic reminders as the cancellation date approaches. None of your pending payments will be affected by this announcement; however, payments should not be scheduled after August 1, 2005 in order to ensure that they are completed.

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Ebay will still rule the online garage sale by DeadSea · 2005-06-22 10:22 · Score: 3, Insightful

I still don't see a person with just a few used items to sell, being able to do well on Froogle or Amazon. Its quite a bit harder to get a listing there than on Ebay.

I would be interested in what percentage of ebay auctions are from full-time sellers. It seems that these folks probably drive a sizable percentage of Ebay's revenue. Losing them could hurt the bottom line of the company very badly.

Amazon and Google still have a ways to go to become all that popular with full time sellers. There are a ton of guides for becoming a full time Ebay seller. But I find very few for Amazon and Google.

Re:Ebay will still rule the online garage sale by NilObject · 2005-06-22 11:04 · Score: 3, Interesting

I, being a college kid, had a fat stack of old books and textbooks I needed to get rid of quickly and earn some spending cash off of. So I went straight to Amazon.

It took me about an hour total to start a new account and then list (apporx) a hundred books. Then I just sat back and watched the e-mails roll in. "Send this book to this person" "Send this book to that person" Zip! Schwip!

And I made several hundred dollars in the space of a few days by selling a fraction of the books.

With EBay, I would have had to spend an entire day listing listing items, dealing with PayPal, and then getting porked from behind for the fees.

Bah humbug.

I can easily see myself running a full-time used bookstore from Amazon. There's a number of brick-and-mortar companies getting rid of a lot of inventory and making money on Amazon. I can see why: it's so easy that you make up for your 15% commission in the time and labor costs you save.
Re:Ebay will still rule the online garage sale by rgmoore · 2005-06-22 11:17 · Score: 2, Funny

Wait a second. Are you suggesting that Amazon.com is a good place to sell books? That's amazing. If you didn't know better, you'd think that the site was designed to do just that.

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There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.
Re:Ebay will still rule the online garage sale by porcupine8 · 2005-06-22 14:02 · Score: 1

I have to say I doubt your experience is unique. I'm a grad student, and another student in my office had a few textbooks to sell. A third student suggested she use Amazon over eBay, and she sold 3 out of the 4 books within a day. I was amazed. I've never tried it, but I sure will next time!

--
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
Re:Ebay will still rule the online garage sale by doombob · 2005-06-23 02:23 · Score: 1

Just a thought, but I know a couple of people who actually own or rent shop space and advertise as "Ebay sales." The do any kind of auction over 30 dollars and even do the car auctions.

I think with more people doing this, it could be possible for ebay to have "Franchises" or Official sales offices.

That could really bump up their sales in populated areas. You wouldn't even need to own a computer, or get on the internet. You drop your thing off at a store and let them deal with it and they cut you a check.
Re:Ebay will still rule the online garage sale by angle_slam · 2005-06-23 03:08 · Score: 1

Ebay is not very good for CDs. You have to list the item and hope it sells. When I first started to sell my CDs, I used Ebay. I barely sold any of them. I switched to Amazon. Much better response.
Theory: people just don't surf Ebay to find a CD. People stumbling upon your Amazon listing are already looking for a particular CD. When they see the used section, they figure that they might as well save a few bucks on the CD.

Dont forget Ebay buys shares in craigslist. by BrookHarty · 2005-06-22 10:23 · Score: 1

http://www.craigslist.org/about/press/ebay.stake.h tml

Ebay has enough money they can buy out some of the small companies, just like microsoft does. Eat up the competition, until the DoJ steps in and slaps with a tiny fine. (-;

This is the way it should be by v3rb · 2005-06-22 10:23 · Score: 5, Interesting

EBay was originally set up to allow individuals to sell merchandise to other individuals. That's why the feedback system was so important. Before PayPal and BidPay you had to use personal check or money order. Do you buy from a seller business with a feedback score of 65322 over one with 4352? When people had feedback 100 it mattered.

People started selling so much they started businesses. Then Ebay started jacking up the fees because they saw businesses making money off their website. Ebay was supposed to be for used merchandise. Now everytime I do a search for used merchandise I can barely find any because I have to wade through businesses that post 20 ads a day because they have 500 units in stock. Ebay just isn't made for that.

The moral of the story is there is a progression that goes from being an individual seller to a company that sells on ebay. If you continue to grow...it just makes sense to get off ebay.

Re:This is the way it should be by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 10:35 · Score: 0

I agree and I don't understand why Ebay wouldn't just split their business into seperate "areas". The "garage sale" area could sell used/useless shit (like it used to be) and the "small business" area could continue selling wholesale packaged items with warranties.

Splitting up the sellers of crap from the sellers of new items would probably revive Ebay and make them more competitive with Amazon and others.
Re:This is the way it should be by AutopsyReport · 2005-06-22 10:44 · Score: 0

If you continue to grow...it just makes sense to get off ebay.
And on the flip side, with 140 million potential buyers, businesses have every marketing reason to stick with Ebay.

--
For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.
Re:This is the way it should be by dynamo · 2005-06-22 10:46 · Score: 1

I've been having a hard time finding used stuff on ebay too.. So is there some _other_ auction site that all the used sales have moved to?
Anyone?
I doubt we have a sudden shortage of used stuff.
Re:This is the way it should be by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 11:07 · Score: 0

Not to mention the grade inflation. Almost everyone seems to have 99.8% positive feedback, even when they erroneously ship things and have to take returns.
I am having issues with a seller who has my return shipping costs for ransom till I leave a positive feedback for him. Needless to say, he's getting a negative rating, fuck the twenty bucks.
Re:This is the way it should be by tusi · 2005-06-22 13:21 · Score: 1

Seconded. There's nothing like trying to sift though a listing of dozens of products with misleading monikers. A search for something like a used video card will yield nothing but a mess of mislabeled products priced far above retail. The video card manufacturers are somewhat to blame for this as well, but that tale is for another day.
Re:This is the way it should be by Teddy+Beartuzzi · 2005-06-22 14:27 · Score: 1

This is pretty much exactly what I was going to post. Good riddance, if the businesses all leave, that'll just leave the folks like me honestly selling their unneeded stuff. I can't count the number of times I've looked for an item, and found 34 of them, all with starting "bids" of suggested retail price.

Speaking of which... by __aaclcg7560 · 2005-06-22 10:24 · Score: 1

The San Jose Mercury News had a headline last week announcing "EBAY NATION". I guess Amazon wasn't too happy about that. I wouldn't be surprised if "AMAZON WORLD" appears in next week's paper.

Re:Speaking of which... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 11:13 · Score: 0

The world is not enough - old family motto...

-Anonymous Amazon Employee

Re:Am I taking the first post business? by pv2b · 2005-06-22 10:24 · Score: 5, Funny

You have been outbid.

The Ebay Effect by tobes · 2005-06-22 10:25 · Score: 1

Yep, sounds about right. CNBC is airing The Ebay Effect next week signifying both the complete cluelessness of CNBC and the jumping of the shark of Ebay. Talk about being late to the party! Holy 1997 Batman.

So we don't /. wsj.com... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 10:26 · Score: 0

Bidding Adieu
Threatening eBay's Dominance,
More Online Sellers Go It Alone

Service Gripes, New Rivals
And Better Technology
Spur Independent Spirit
Mr. Wieber's 14-Day Meltdown
By MYLENE MANGALINDAN
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
June 22, 2005; Page A1

In 2002, John Wieber started worrying about his business, which sold refurbished computers through Internet auctioneer eBay Inc. Although he was earning $1 million a year in revenue, profits had started to slip as competitors flocked to the site. EBay also raised its fees, further cutting margins, and fraud was becoming a problem.

So Mr. Wieber revamped his Web site and began selling through other online companies, such as Amazon.com Inc. and Yahoo Inc. Last year, his sales neared $5 million, but his eBay revenue grew at a much slower pace, making up only a quarter of the total. It will likely fall still lower. Of the auction site, where he got his start, Mr. Wieber says: "Too many sellers, not enough buyers."

EBay, with more than 147 million users world-wide, has long been regarded as the dot-com survivor that could do no wrong. Mr. Wieber's story shows why the company may be losing some of that luster. Setting up an online store is so easy these days that sellers needn't rely on eBay as a source of customers. Advertising is simple and inexpensive, thanks to new technology from companies such as Google Inc. And multiple competitors, including Amazon and Yahoo, are pulling once-loyal eBay sellers into their orbit.

EBay's latest fee increases, in February, have intensified seller complaints about poor customer service and falling prices. One result: EBay sellers are helping one another declare independence. A recent conference of eBay merchants featured a workshop on "Developing your own Web site." For the first time, after a decade of rapid expansion, traffic to eBay's U.S. Web site declined in the first quarter, as revenue growth hit a record low. Reflecting the concerns, eBay shares have fallen 36% this year.

EBay is still growing at rates most companies would die for. Its oldest markets, which are maturing, are being supplanted by business in fast-growing countries such as the United Kingdom, Korea and China. More than 60% of new registered users in 2004 lived outside the U.S. and that expansion overseas helped boost revenue 51%.

EBay executives say sellers often dabble in other marketplaces and with their own Web sites. "It's not an either/or," says Michael Dearing, eBay's senior vice president of marketing and merchandising. He says sellers typically return to eBay because it offers "extraordinary value."

In a bid to boost growth and help sellers be more successful, eBay has spent roughly $1.5 billion in the past 18 months to acquire Web sites in areas such as online classified advertising. It has also invested heavily in customer service, an area the company concedes it didn't pay enough attention to in the past.

EBay, based in San Jose, Calif., thrived in the 1990s as a uniquely efficient way for small merchants -- from part-time hobbyists to million-dollar companies -- to reach customers across the globe. Initially popular as a way to peddle second-hand goods, eBay morphed into a market for used, new and even luxury items. EBay charges sellers a small fee to list items, based on their value, and a commission when they sell.

The auction company estimates that 430,000 people in the U.S. make part or all of their living through the site. These days, many of them aren't happy.

In 2000, Tom Hawksley began selling CDs and DVDs on eBay, leftover inventory from a chain of video stores he used to own. Last year, from his home in Windermere, Fla., he tried selling on Amazon, which levies a hefty commission but no listing fee. Mr. Hawksley found he could sell DVDs of TV shows such as "Dragnet" or "Adam 12" for $35 on Amazon, where he can set his own price, compared with eBay, where he found consumers unwilling to pay more than $10.

EBay shoppers

Googlezon by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 10:27 · Score: 0

Amazon + Google sounds like GoogleZon... Google does no evil, but i'm unsure about Amazon :/

One word. by dema · 2005-06-22 10:28 · Score: 5, Interesting

Good.

I was a big fan of ebay back in the day. I still have an account that I use on very rare occasion. But today ebay seems to be nothing more than a portal for people who don't want / can't afford to setup physical shop. Ebay lost is greatest quality, IMO, a while back: the personal experience.

The last few things I sold a couple of months ago were random shirts from indie bands. Of the five people I contacted after winning, none of them ever replied to my emails. One of them left me negative feedback because she felt the shirt was in poor condition. I would've been glad to refund her the money and let her keep the shirt if she had contacted me, but apparently talking to another human (even by email) is a bit too much for ebayers these days.

Re:One word. by UrgleHoth · 2005-06-22 10:56 · Score: 1

IMHO, ebay's feedback system is broken. Like the problem you have, ignorant buyers don't get in touch with sellers. Sellers hold feedback hostage from buyers until they receive positive feedback. This skews the feedback seen. I've been exclusively a buyer, I have little interest in selling on ebay. I've fallen into the habit of giving feedback to the seller when he/she gives it first. On one hand, I paid the seller quickly with the method the seller wants, I held up my end of the bargain, I should get pos feedback. On the other hand, I know that not all buyers are good buyers, like the real estate adage, "Buyers are liars," The buyer may pull the crap that the parent poster described.

--

Dogma - "let's just say we'd like to avoid any empirical entanglements."
Re:One word. by pandrijeczko · 2005-06-22 11:11 · Score: 1

Unfortunately, some people just don't have any common sense.
I've sold a lot on Ebay, not as a permanent seller but just clearing out a lot of role-playing games rules and CDs from my collection.

One guy I sold a book to left me neutral feedback because the book had been damaged in transit (the wrapping paper had been torn) before even contacting me.

To me, the book was a piece of worthless junk and I would have refunded the guy his money and let him keep it, just like you. I emailed him, gave him the option of a refund or an additional similar book I had, he took the additional book as settlement, but I'd already got the neutral feedback.

Unfortunately, too many buyers are too quick to believe they are dealing with deliberate crooks on Ebay rather than just using common sense, accepting that sometimes things do go wrong beyond the seller's control and actually emailing the seller first to try to reach a compromise.

--
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Re:One word. by Teddy+Beartuzzi · 2005-06-22 14:33 · Score: 1

Nothing bugs me more than a seller who puts in his auction "We leave feedback for those who leave us feedback". Guess what Sherlock, if everyone had your friggin' attitude, not a single feedback would have ever been given, would they? So I make sure I never bid on anyone's auction with that in it.
In fact, I've found that by and large it's *sellers* who shirk giving feedback more than buyers. I'd guess my ratio as a seller is about 90% received, and as a buyer 55% or so. But then, I give feedback on receipt of payment.

Oh by wastingtape · 2005-06-22 10:29 · Score: 1

so that's why there aren't any good deals on ebay anymore...

My brother fits this to a "T" by fname · 2005-06-22 10:29 · Score: 2, Informative

My brother started 5 years ago selling jewelry on his website and eBay. It was tough to get any traction on his website, selling inexpensive silver jewelry, and he had a lot more success on eBay. The website was, at best 10% of his business. But about 3 months ago we started an advertising campaign using Google's Adwords program. After a slow start, sales have started to take off thanks to a redesigned landing page that better featured the great deals he has for wholesale silver jewelry. [Ya, that's a plug... is that so wrong?] We've doubled the ad budget just this week and if the trend keeps up for a few more weeks, he might be able to get 50% of his business off eBay.

The content network is really what makes it work. More than half of hits come from the content network, and more than half the sales. The click-through rates are about the same, which surprised me quite a bit.

So, without RTFA, I can support the WSJ's premise. Google does threaten eBay-- it allows small sellers to get their own customer base independent of eBay. eBay may not see a drop in sales, but long-term I think this hurts their growth.

Dear Seller by Letter · 2005-06-22 10:30 · Score: 5, Interesting

Dear Seller,

It's true that Amazon takes 15% of your selling price. But did you realize that they also make money on shipping?

The amount they reimburse sellers is less than they charge buyers for shipping.

Sneaky.

Letter

Re:Dear Seller by Takumi2501 · 2005-06-22 12:21 · Score: 1, Redundant

What? You mean they're in business to make money?

Who'da thunk it?

--
Sent from my computer.
Now GET OFF MY LAWN!
Re:Dear Seller by klui · 2005-06-22 13:42 · Score: 1

Well, yes, this is something that we don't like too much about Amazon, but my wife prefers Amazon over eBay because eBay will charge you regardless if you sell your product.
Re:Dear Seller by angle_slam · 2005-06-23 03:00 · Score: 1

The sneaky part isn't that they do this. The sneaky part is that they don't tell you, the seller. I have a small business there, selling CDs. They take their cut, then they give you $1.42 for shipping reimbursement. So if you sell a CD for $9.47, they'll take their 15% cut of $1.42, but give you $1.42 for shipping. So you still get $9.47. Seems like a good deal, right? What they don't tell you is that they charge the buyer over $3 shipping. You only get $1.42 of that.
Re:Dear Seller by geoffrobinson · 2005-06-23 04:50 · Score: 1

That's a great point. Amazon only gets a cut when it sells. I use Amazon to sell books. My wife sells on ebay. She does reasonably well, but I'm getting tired of ebay.

--
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
Re:Dear Seller by captaincucumber · 2005-06-23 06:41 · Score: 1

Yeah, I find that practice very annoying. half.com does it too. (does half.com even exist any more?) If a buyer bought to items from you they still had to pay the same per-item shipping costs (no savings), but they only pass on to the seller a tiny bit more than they would give you to ship one item.

Lame.

If anyone can do it, Google and Amazon Can by HaFBaKeD · 2005-06-22 10:30 · Score: 2, Insightful

With the talent behind Google, and the online prescence of Amazon, there is no doubt they can eventually overtake Ebay as the popular option for the masses. Going to an online store to purchase or sell items, require more than simply turning on a PC running Windows. The market is already somewhat ahead of the game in their knowledge and willingness to try something new. As such, they are that much more open to new options, should they be saturated with those options when it comes to marketing.

--
"A war over religion is like fighting over who has the best imaginary friend."

Re:If anyone can do it, Google and Amazon Can by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 10:53 · Score: 0

Its "presence"
Re:If anyone can do it, Google and Amazon Can by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 16:03 · Score: 0

"The talent behind Google".. Gosh... What, you think there are no smart folks at Amazon or eBay???

I know Google employees who aren't that bright to tell you the truth (but they have quite an ego that makes you not to spend as much time with them as it used to), and I also know a few folks at eBay who have some quite amazing brains...

The difference perhaps is that eBay is and always has been very focused. Google used to claim "do one thing and do it right" an people drooled when they read it. Today Google is trying to do a million things. eBay? Still focused on that one thing (but people don't drool).

Just from that point of view, I'd support eBay rather than Google. Google's trying to do just too many things, even proxy the whole Internet for us sheesh... To have one huge company trying to do so many things for you... that just can't be a very good thing in the long run. You keep on supporting them. Talented? Sure, especially their PR department, they totally rule.

eBay is a JOKE by Jesus+IS+the+Devil · 2005-06-22 10:31 · Score: 5, Insightful

eBay and Paypal rank way up there as the most evil companies on the net. I have a friend who sells via eBay, and from what he's been telling me, eBay has been making it harder and harder to get refunds on failed auctions all the while increasing their fees.

As for Paypal, it's practically a crook's paradise (eBay is too actually). They force you to enter in your checking information if you wish to perform any transactions over a few bucks (forget the exact $). Once you've done this you are completely at their mercy to screw you over however they'd like.

With credit cards, you always have the option of a chargeback. Once you have linked your banking info to Paypal, good luck! Now they get all the say as to when/if they will give you credit back if something goes wrong. If a seller sends you a box of bricks, screw you.

Here's a personal experience I've had with Paypal. A while back I posted an ad to sell some stuff. Someone bought them and paid via a "VERIFIED" Paypal account. The buyer came by my house and picked them up in person. Everything looked legit until Paypal reversed the transaction saying the "verified" account was stolen. I emailed Paypal and all I got was one runaround after another. In fact I started getting the same replies over and over again!

My problem is, either Paypal is an escrow or they are not. If they're not, they have no right to refund the money. If they are, they have an obligation to re-imburse me for my losses. However, they took the coward's way out, refunding the money to the user to avoid being sued and losing in court for failing to protect their user accounts, and screwing me in the process saying that only orders sent by mail are protected under their TOS.

I really hope eBay and Paypal die off in really horrible deaths.

--

eTrade SUCKS

Re:eBay is a JOKE by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 12:17 · Score: 1, Informative

"With credit cards, you always have the option of a chargeback. Once you have linked your banking info to Paypal, good luck! Now they get all the say as to when/if they will give you credit back if something goes wrong. If a seller sends you a box of bricks, screw you."

Actually, you can still pay via Credit Card.

You do need to give them your bank account info to become 'verified' or whatever, but when you pay via Paypal you can still choose to pay using the Credit Card you initially set the account up with. It just defaults to your bank account.
Re:eBay is a JOKE by Jesus+IS+the+Devil · 2005-06-22 12:19 · Score: 1

I think that depends on the amount. If it's over X dollars they force you to pay via your bank account.

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eTrade SUCKS
Re:eBay is a JOKE by kn0tw0rk · 2005-06-22 12:20 · Score: 1, Informative

I personally avoid using Paypal if at all possible, which usually means I don't buy from sellers outside of Australia as I prefer paying/depositing directly to a persons bank account.

As I found it much easier to deal with a bank the one time I had a problem with a seller.

The few times I have used paypal, I dont view the transaction as secure in any way, so am prepared to possibly loose the money. Hence I am much more choosey about what I'm buying.

--
See my art -> http://herbevore.deviantart.com
Re:eBay is a JOKE by SA+Stevens · 2005-06-22 15:38 · Score: 1

Why the hell would you accept paypal payment for an item picked up in person? You should have asked for cash at the door.
Re:eBay is a JOKE by michaelhood · 2005-06-22 17:01 · Score: 1

Please see my earlier post: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=153612&cid=128 86962.

This sums up my experiences. Sort of similar to yours.
Re:eBay is a JOKE by Jesus+IS+the+Devil · 2005-06-22 18:06 · Score: 1

Because I was going to ship it originally duh...

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eTrade SUCKS
Re:eBay is a JOKE by CoyoteGuy · 2005-06-23 01:13 · Score: 1

So you were going to ship it originally.. You made arrangements to have buyer pick it up... TAKE CASH IN PERSON... wtf.. that's rule #1. The whole reason for PayPal is to be an escrow service to guarantee sellers ship the items..

When they come to your door, you threw all your protections out the window.

Have a nice day.

--
Slashdot.. Land of nerds, trolls, and FlameBait..
Re:eBay is a JOKE by Skuld-Chan · 2005-06-23 04:20 · Score: 1

eBay and Paypal rank way up there as the most evil companies on the net. I have a friend who sells via eBay, and from what he's been telling me, eBay has been making it harder and harder to get refunds on failed auctions all the while increasing their fees.

Sellers really only have themselves to blame for this. For instance - I bought a calendar on ebay once, and when I got it - it was a recorded cd with images from the calendar on it. I told him I wanted my money back, he gave it back sans shipping. When I called eBay up about it the CSR on the phone said that the seller had claimed I was a non-payer and they credited the auction fees to him.
Re:eBay is a JOKE by Jesus+IS+the+Devil · 2005-06-23 14:33 · Score: 1

Keyword being "escrow". If they are acting as an escrow then they need to offer me protection.

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eTrade SUCKS

eBay has it's share... by DaedalusLogic · 2005-06-22 10:32 · Score: 2, Interesting

of problem customers and scams. I'm all for competition. I was liquidating a motherboard on eBay that was an open box part obtained from an RMA. After the customer received the part and crammed half a dozen cards into it, he declared it broken. Which it might have been... and I told him how to file an RMA on that part. I also offered to refund part of his investment if he just wanted to return it to me outright.

Soon the story changed... the item wasn't was "as described"... I started getting explanations of and I quote, "Living in a trailer with a handicapped brother with a $10,000 plate in his head." I was going to need to send him $70 for the item to be returned...

Then he proceeded to file complaints with PayPal and try and get his funds frozen.

What merchant would ever let you buy a product, break it, and return it for more money than it is worth? And what crazy payment system allows you to raid a merchants bank account because you most likely zapped the product with your own hands?

Re:eBay has it's share... by kilraid · 2005-06-22 18:37 · Score: 1

For an ongoing German eBay scam, see the closed auctions by "soerenlebt": http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeed back&userid=soerenlebt. (Feedback from buyers is in German)
I was about to buy something from them because it was so cheap, but got suspicious because they had no feedback, were selling quite a number of expensive items - audio equipment and expensive wristwatches - , the auctions all looked different and photos were quite obviously not by the same person. But others did buy from him and after some time, the "Money cashed, no product, no replies to e-mails" negative feedback started to roll in.

Be Warned! by pandrijeczko · 2005-06-22 10:32 · Score: 5, Interesting

Do not think that you have any degree of protection from PayPal either.

A friend of mine was robbed of £400 after he made a PayPal payment to a seller for a PC. He never received the PC and PayPal took absolutely no interest in refunding the money.

The excuse PayPal gave? The seller didn't have enough credit in his PayPal account to refund the money - and has since been kicked off of Ebay.

Neither PayPal or Ebay care about you being fiddled of money, they take their percentage for basically doing nothing.

--
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.

Re:Be Warned! by rogueuk · 2005-06-22 15:52 · Score: 2, Informative

that's why you should set your PayPal account to use your credit card.

PayPal dicking you over? Go over their heads and call the credit card company for a charge back. You get the money credited back to your account by the credit card company and PayPal now has the 3 ton gorilla credit card company going after their money. You get an email from PayPal asking about the problem, but it's out of their hands.

Google Wallet to take on PayPal by kegger64 · 2005-06-22 10:33 · Score: 1

I haven't seen much discussion on /. about the rumor that Google's going to take on PayPal directly.

http://searchviews.com/archives/2005/06/google_wal let_e.php

If the rumors turn out to be true, both eBay and PayPal could be in for some serious trouble.

--
653899 - Another prime Slashdot UID

Re:Google Wallet to take on PayPal by moonbender · 2005-06-22 18:31 · Score: 1

You haven't been looking very hard. ;)

--
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.

Amazon.com Support by Valiss · 2005-06-22 10:34 · Score: 1

And just in case...

Amazon.com US Customer Service
Phone toll-free in the US and Canada: (800) 201-7575
Phone from outside the US and Canada: (206) 346-2992 or (206)-266-2992

--

-Valiss

Free Yahoo Auctions.. by slashkitty · 2005-06-22 10:35 · Score: 5, Informative

They didn't mention that yahoo auctions just went completely free.. It's just ad supported now. I would be very happy if eBay had a little more competition in both the auction and payment sectors.

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-- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.

Re:Free Yahoo Auctions.. by SlashdotMeNow · 2005-06-22 11:00 · Score: 1

Google should do this with their rumored payment service - setup a free auction service, charge a minimal fee for the payment service, and make money from ads (which is their core business anyway)
Re:Free Yahoo Auctions.. by porcupine8 · 2005-06-22 14:08 · Score: 1

Huh. Weren't Yahoo auctions free back in the day? The day being, oh, 97, 98 or so? Interesting that they went to fees then went back again.
Or maybe I'm mixing them up with some other free auction service... Back around that time, there were one or two that were actually possible competitors for eBay, but eBay overtook them all.

--
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.

uh huh by Nexcet · 2005-06-22 10:35 · Score: 1, Insightful

Well, if your reselling (most case you are) you still have to go by MAP [Minimum Advertised Price]. Maybe its the services ^_^ hrmm...

Good riddance by 77Punker · 2005-06-22 10:36 · Score: 1

Now hopefully there will be less spam in the descriptions and searches can become relevant again. E-Bay isn't a place to run a business; it's a place to sell shit you don't want.

Re:Good riddance by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 15:40 · Score: 0

" Now hopefully there will be less spam in the descriptions and searches can become relevant again."

Clearly you haven't tried an eBay search lately. I regularly look for difficult to find books by an obscure author. The last time I typed in his last name and hit search I found that eBay now spell checks the search terms. To quote the late great Gomer Pyle, "Surprise! Surprise !" The search term I typed magically changed to the spell checked word and brought up results for what the eBay spell checker decided it should be. It decided his name was a cosmetic brand name and I got pages of lipsticks and bath oils.

I added quotes to see if these helpful people had made it impossible to do Boolean search.

Thankfully the quotes disabled the spell checker brought up results for the term I entered. The results were zero, but that is what I wanted to know in the first place.

This "enhancement" has been touted as "marketing" by Bill Cobb the new president of eBay, who by the way is a marketing guy. He thinks no search should ever bring up zero results.

He also instituted an "enhancement" that if your search brings up fewer than 10 hits that you should be offered additional hits of "similar items". However the associations of what is similar was designed using Gracie Allen logic. I was looking for a lamp and it "intuitively" associated the term with a shoe brand and I got additional hits for ladies spike heeled shoes.

Relevant searchs on eBay?? Dream on.........

I don't really like Amazon... by KoReE · 2005-06-22 10:36 · Score: 1

I don't really like the Amazon marketplace from a buyer's standpoint. It's just clunky. Which, it may not be clunky, but I'm so used to Ebay. I have yet to find something on Amazon I couldn't find on Ebay, and Ebay's interface is nicer. However, I have no comment on selling on either service, as I've only sold a couple of things on Ebay (when the comissions were low) and have never sold anything via Amazon.

These are just my experiences.

--
Instant Karma's gonna get you...

Ebay blows large, stinky goats.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 10:36 · Score: 0

I used to use Ebay, but stopped after they sent me a nasty "you are ripping people off" email.

Seems that someone I used to work with (but hadn't seen in *over a year*), had a bunch of auctions going, and got hospitalized for a couple of weeks. The auctions came to an end, and he never contacted the buyers (who then complained to Ebay) because he was in a coma.

Because of this, Ebay suspended *MY* account(?!?!?!?!), and sent me a nasty email about it. It was up to me to prove that my former co-worker and me were not the same person.

Fuck them. I'll never use Ebay ever again.

Ebay is gunning for Ebay alone by Space+cowboy · 2005-06-22 10:36 · Score: 4, Insightful

... and that's the problem. I sold my motorbike on Ebay when I emigrated to the US last year, and was so disgusted with the service, I even wrote a journal entry about it.

Ebay doesn't care if the seller has problems as long as the percentage cut is in Ebay's bank account. They do little-to-nothing to make the seller's life easy, in fact it's a very customer-unfocused setup.

As long as Ebay keep their current modus operandi, I'll not be using them again, and they have to run out of sellers eventually...

Simon

--
Physicists get Hadrons!

Re:Ebay is gunning for Ebay alone by Dunbal · 2005-06-22 10:49 · Score: 1

and they have to run out of sellers eventually...

Are you trying to imply that there is an upper bound on human greed and stupidity?

--
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Re:Ebay is gunning for Ebay alone by halltk1983 · 2005-06-22 11:03 · Score: 1

Very much OT... but I have to...
You are a s/w consultant and your name is simon, having worked both in the US, and UK... are you the BOFH?

--
Watch for Penguins, they eat Apples and throw rocks at Windows.
Re:Ebay is gunning for Ebay alone by Space+cowboy · 2005-06-22 14:43 · Score: 1

[grin] You know, I get asked this a lot :-) It was even more weird when I was a sysadmin :-)

No, I'm not. And your account is not terminated, your credit-cards have not been maxed-out, and your car is totally undamaged. At least in some universe...

Simon. (Bet you go and check... :-)

--
Physicists get Hadrons!
Re:Ebay is gunning for Ebay alone by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 18:05 · Score: 0

(I work at eBay, so I have some idea of what goes on inside.)

I read your post as well as your journal entry and I want to let you know what I see on my end. We have a lot of people who work on reducing and eliminating fraud on the site. There is A LOT that goes on behind the scenes that you don't see. Unfortunately we aren't 100% successful (obviously), but we are making an honest effort. It is in our best interest to eliminate fraud, including the kind of problems that you had in your dealings with eBay. For example, shill bidding can generate some extra revenue for eBay in the short term, but it is such a negative experience for the buyer that we want to detect and prevent it. On the seller side, phishing and flaky bidders are a problem too. The flaky bidders don't last too long, but again, we would rather have only honest buyers and sellers. Making that a reality is a very tough problem, and one that becomes quite complex once you understand the details.
Re:Ebay is gunning for Ebay alone by Rayder · 2005-06-22 20:15 · Score: 1

It seems that eBay is quite unsuccessful, don't care enough about his site or don't care at all about his customers/sellers.

I'm quite happy to know that not only the buyers are the ones that suffer from ebay incompetence on dealing with fraud, in fact I've suffered it in the last two ebay purchases I did and I'm convinced that eBay was promoting it, when you put a maxim bid of let's say $ 120.49 and the shill bidder stops at $ 120.45, then certainly he knows when to stop.

My solution has been getting my money somewhere else, because eBay's customer Service is totally unsupportive, full of messages with the warning "Don't answer to this message becasue no one is going to read it".

To me eBay is DEAD.
Re:Ebay is gunning for Ebay alone by Alioth · 2005-06-23 00:04 · Score: 1

Makes me even less willing to use eBay, even though the only time I've used it so far (to buy a used Sun Ultra 5) it all worked out fine.

BTW: That thing about the US Embassy in your JE - it's merely part of the INS's Foreigner Dehumanization Programme, and the Embassy in London is particularly bad (although not as bad as the ones in India, apparently). I've had to visit that awful place 3 times (I worked in the US for 6 years). Once I had my visa refused by the Embassy (which had been approved by the INS in the USA already) because the form I used was "out of date". So I downloaded the new form off the embassy website, and it was EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE OLD FORM WITH A DIFFERENT DATE AT THE BOTTOM!

--
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows

Half.com uses the same system by frikazoyd · 2005-06-22 10:37 · Score: 1

Have you ever checked out half.com? Owned by E-bay, same system, and you may not have to deal with the California tax. You just pay E-bay with a credit card, and they pay the guy, and send you the item. It is incredibly similar to the Amazon "new and used" resell system.

Why doesn't Google index eBay? by AEton · 2005-06-22 10:38 · Score: 2, Insightful

An interesting project which would require a very large operation would be to start keeping track of every completed eBay auction. With such a database, you could search by keywords or some other query to figure out the historical value of items, the best time to sell them (graphing calculators in August when school starts), or to analyze other trends. This could be valuable both to buyers and sellers.

The current eBay robots.txt includes the text
# eBay may permit automated access to
# access certain eBay pages but soley for the limited purpose of
# including content in publicly available search engines.

So Google could get away with doing such indexing - which would be of very high value to many people, since eBay makes old auctions inaccessible after a certain period - at least under the current robots.txt.

I'm aware of the legal and technical problems that might arise. (Recall the 2000 Bidder's Edge lawsuit where an online auction aggregator was prevented by eBay from using their data.) You'd need a large company and a lot of machines with different IP addresses to quietly check every auction, and I can think of at least twelve different ways such a database of prices, bids, times, durations, titles, and descriptions could be important.

So why hasn't anyone done it?

--
We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions.

Re:Why doesn't Google index eBay? by 77Punker · 2005-06-22 10:44 · Score: 2, Informative

Google already does it. Try to buy something on Froogle and you'll eventually notice that half of the listings are from shitty E-Bay "businesses".

The names of the companies will usually say something other than E-Bay, but if you click on enough, you'll find them for sure.
Re:Why doesn't Google index eBay? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 10:51 · Score: 0

i am a actually one of those ebay API partner things.

i was trying to write a agrrgator basically dataminer. that would enable one ot really assess decent resale values on current market values. thers so much data there taht it ouwld be very intersting to me.
months later if i find they implemented an ebay pulse or zeitgeist one of the first things i tried to implment but they whacked me with the T&C violation.

gaah they are creeps who hold theire precious data more vulable than possibly ad revenue/ market research data reselling

fear ebay.
Re:Why doesn't Google index eBay? by AEton · 2005-06-22 10:57 · Score: 2, Interesting

And what's worse is that Froogle doesn't even make a token attempt at including the additional costs like shipping and handling. So the eBay sellers it indexes seem cheap but are almost invariably poor deals.

However, Froogle doesn't seem to keep historical data and doesn't index auctions that aren't from eBay stores (with "buy it now" auctions). Or, if they do, they're keeping it an in-house secret - and what a cool database that would be to have around!

--
We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions.
Re:Why doesn't Google index eBay? by blueboy31 · 2005-06-22 11:35 · Score: 1

I'm not sure about how far back they keep records, but check out the "research tools" section on http://www.andale.com/. I find their price finder to be very handy. They used to let you do a few lookups for free, but it looks like you might have to pay just to try it out now :-/

--
Christmas is the opposite of theft. See?

phishing by Fairwind · 2005-06-22 10:39 · Score: 3, Interesting

The amount of people falling victim to phishing on eBay is frightening. Users with perfect feedback and years of eBay activity can be fooled by a single email asking to verify their account information. I've seen some strange auctions listed from what seemed to be honest and trustworthy people. However it was an account hijacked by a phisher. As the number of phishing victims rises, the feedback system will become obsolete. I hope amazon and google don't suffer a simliar fate.

Re:phishing by pandrijeczko · 2005-06-22 11:01 · Score: 0, Flamebait

Sorry, but I've no sympathy for victims of phishing. If you're stupid enough to fall for a phishing attack then you either need to get yourself some computer training or put your PC on Ebay and stick to pens and paper.
If you simply remember the rule that no legitimate organisation will ask you for any secure information via email, then no phishing attack can ever work against you.

There's been enough warnings about this already and if people took the time to read those, and the "Policy" areas of online sites they deal with, they would not be victims.

--
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Re:phishing by oakgrove · 2005-06-22 12:39 · Score: 2, Informative

I find a good rule of thumb in my own ebay and amazon business activities is, never NEVER click on a link contained in an email sent from either of those sites.

Always just go to amazon.com or ebay.com and navigate to the page you want. Phishers have gotten quite proficient at sending fake invoices to sellers that look just like the real thing.

--
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
Re:phishing by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 13:50 · Score: 0

I thought I would never get phished.

Then one evening I saw an email from "Paypal." It seemed like I was always getting nasty stuff from them, even though I thought I had closed my account a while ago. I wanted them off my back, so I filled out the info and sent it.

And only then I realized it was too suspicious. Went back and looked, and sure enough, there were signs of a phish email. It was a bit late and I was busy with other stuff at the time. But it happened - I got phished. It just DOESN'T matter how leet you are, you're going to screw up.

Probably not... by dakirw · 2005-06-22 10:39 · Score: 1

since eBay's located in San Jose and Amazon's not. Some hometown bias here, I'd guess.

Ebay is Good for Buyers and Bad for sellers by guntaka · 2005-06-22 10:39 · Score: 1

Amazon is for rich people. Ebay is only for people who wants bargains

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RRGuntaka

Re:Ebay is Good for Buyers and Bad for sellers by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-23 07:03 · Score: 0

ebay is for suckers who think they're getting a bargain but are actually paying way over market price. amazon is for ppl who know what they're paying is definitely lower than market price and they won't get involved in a bidding war which might take the price above the market value.

thanks by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 10:40 · Score: 1, Funny

as we all know, wsj.com is run off of an iMac connected to a home dsl line.

Re:I look at it as *cheap* Advertising. by GecKo213 · 2005-06-22 10:41 · Score: 2, Insightful

All three of these places work great as advertising due to the traffic each site receives. Massive amounts of people already head to those sites with the intenet to buy as well. Use the massive amounts of traffic and the occasional "loss" in the profit margin spent as eBay/Yahoo/Amazon commision as your ad budget.
Example:

1) Post something on their sites

2) Advertise the hell out of your own website on each post

3) Browsers become buyers and watch the shoppers from all of the above auction/sales sites come to you next time and buy direct

You can also ship more advertisements for your own website with catchy phrases like. Buy direct next time at [Your URL here] etc.

--
Generation Trance: What generation are you?

agree.. by slashmojo · 2005-06-22 10:47 · Score: 3, Informative

Amazon is the only company I've dealt with over the past few years that has made me feel like a human instead of a problem.

Have to agree.. just as a buyer I have found their customer support to be second to none. Any time I have had a problem they have fixed it instantly - even if they lose money as a result, for example by sending replacement products out (internationally) which they have done for me several times.

They are the only online retailer that I really trust.. they've earned it.

Re:agree.. by PhoenixFlare · 2005-06-22 10:58 · Score: 1

They are the only online retailer that I really trust.. they've earned it.

So do I...Almost. If they could just police their DVD listings (anime especially) to keep people from selling obvious bootlegs, i'd have no bone to pick with them.

What?! Ebay is pricey... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 10:52 · Score: 4, Informative

I rarely every find a "bargain" on eBay anymore; I've stopped looking at the site. I see allot of stuff selling for prices higher than retail. However, most things are priced at about 85-95% of new. Go search closed auctions for a Mac Mini, you'll really have to dig to find a used one that sold for less than 95% of what you'd pay from Apple.

Me? I'll bone up the extra $25 and buy a new one.

Re:What?! Ebay is pricey... by pandrijeczko · 2005-06-22 11:21 · Score: 1

I rarely every find a "bargain" on eBay anymore
Ebay is only good these days for collectors who want hard to find items and are prepared to pay a premium for them.

The other thing to remember is that a lot of people on Ebay just clear out junk on there. As they do this, they accrue positive PayPal balances as sellers pay them but that balance, to me at least, never feels like "real" money anyway.

There's been a few times when I've paid more for a piece of computer hardware on Ebay than via a reputable online seller purely because I've had enough balance in PayPal to cover the item rather than resort to a credit card with the reputable seller.

The other thing to note is that here in the UK, it takes 7 working days for PayPal transfers to appear in your bank account - consequently, someone has that money and is earning interest on it for a whole week before you see it.

--
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Re:What?! Ebay is pricey... by kooshvt · 2005-06-22 11:40 · Score: 1

Several years ago I was searching ebay for deals on open box Star Wars figures. I just wanted them to play with and tape fire crackers to them. I was looking to get them for less than retail for my own personal destructive habits. Everything that I found that was open box was going for MORE than retail price. I could wander down to walmart and get it brand new off the shelf for less than what these morons were bidding for this crap.

More recently I have returned to ebay to try and get tickets to a "sold out" concert. I say sold out however the tickets were originally given out free of charge. These vultures want $75 a pop for tickets. Why should I line the pockets of some parasite to see a band that was doing their fans a service by performing a free show.

To sum up... in my opinion ebay sucks.
Re:What?! Ebay is pricey... by fermion · 2005-06-22 14:03 · Score: 1

On garage sale stuff, you will pay a bit more than you would at a garage sale, but then you don't have to have to wake up at six in the morning.
On the other stuff, i guess it depends where you live. Most of the stuff I see is bought cheap through some good retail sale or the like, and then sold at small profit. If you made the sale, you would get a better deal.

OTOH, I see basically the same thing on Yahoo, Google, and Amazon. I find the sites useful if i am looking for discontinued equipment, or hard to find books, but anything else can be gotten cheaper, at least in the U.S. cities.

--
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Re:What?! Ebay is pricey... by oirtemed · 2005-06-22 15:51 · Score: 1

Ebay isnt really suited for "deals" on a mac mini. Ebay is best (both for buying and selling) obscure, niche things that people know what they are looking for. Best example is used car parts for older cars. Sure, you can sell books and music and dvds on amazon, Im not sure about other things though. Im all for the competition. And yes, ebay is flooded with spammy things and scams. And yes, ebay as a corp is pretty greedy and turns a blind eye because of fees. but if you know how to use it right and are wary (as in any internet dealings), ebay is just as useful as it ever was.
Re:What?! Ebay is pricey... by Mike+Peel · 2005-06-22 23:37 · Score: 1

I recently sold my Mac Mini on eBay. For some reason, it actually sold for slightly more than the purchase price for a brand new one (despite not having Tiger installed). Am still confused about that.
Re:What?! Ebay is pricey... by DarthVain · 2005-06-23 02:18 · Score: 1

Yup... this is why I rarely use the service anymore... or just lurk for long periods until I find a really good deal. The problem as I see it (as far as pricing goes) is two fold, mega seller BUISNESSES who basically sell from a store front. Normally I would not have a problem with that so long as it is cheaper than retail, but this is usually not the case. The other problem is stupid people on e-bay. There are either a) too many stupid people on ebay, or b) too many people that do not do reasearch into what an item is actually worth. Why assume risk and pay more than retail, its just stupid.

Ebay has been degenerated into a place where the only things worth buying are very rare hard to find items that have a limited buying base (not that many people will be interested, ie I am looking for a gasket for a specific machine), and illegal stuff like bootlegs etc...

I USED to shop all the time for computer equipment (usually slightly dated), but I would say 99% of the time I can find the same product or better for cheaper at an online retailer. Not to mention the risk involved in ebay, or the screwing of people on postage. I love looking at ads for a 1.99 product and a 30$ shipping fee... You get sick of the lies after a while.

Anyway thats my 2 cents.
Re:What?! Ebay is pricey... by crimson30 · 2005-06-23 02:24 · Score: 1

It depends on the type of item. eBay is by far the cheapest place to get magic cards... or playsets of chase rares, anyway.

Tweaking landing pages... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 10:58 · Score: 0

Take a look at Urchin if you're tweaking landing pages. They have really good integration with adwords, and the price is reasonable for the report set you get.

Using Urchin, your brother will be able to tell what individual users are doing on his site. And he'll be able to see what keywords perform well, and which don't. And he'll be able to see what "natural keywords" (terms people searched for which appeared in the search results) are sending people to his site. Sometimes buying a keyword or two from the list of terms that appear in natural searches can be a good move.

Finally, he'll be able to tell what ranking works well for him. Sometimes paying $0.52 for the second place in the AdWords list versus $2.32 for the top spot can be a good move as far as ROI and conversions. You can see that sort of info with Urchin.

Disclaimer: I work at Urchin. Ya, all this is a plug... is that so wrong? :-)

MOD PARENT UP! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 11:01 · Score: 0

FuckedGoogle.com

Yeah, go on, mod me fucking down and I'll fucking bite off your fucking greasy smelly shrivel-penis, you fucking Googel-astroturds.

Re:MOD PARENT UP! by MightyMartian · 2005-06-22 11:16 · Score: 1

This guy is to search engines what Creationists are to science.

--
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Re:MOD PARENT UP! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 11:46 · Score: 0

It seems he also has a thing for (and I quote):

"greasy smelly shrivel-penis"

Still, it takes all kinds, right?
Re:MOD PARENT UP! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 15:18 · Score: 0

"greasy smelly shrivel-penis"
probably found it on ebay for $1.98 with 19.99 shipping

;-p

Amazon USED to do evil by davidwr · 2005-06-22 11:05 · Score: 1

They spammed. Unfortunately, so did their then-only-major-rival, Barnes & Noble Online.

AFAIK, neither has spammed in a major way if at all in years.

--
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.

Shouldn't this be from... by sehlat · 2005-06-22 11:06 · Score: 1

the eating-somebodys-lunch department?

A sellers perspective... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 11:09 · Score: 1, Informative

YMMV depending on what you sell and who your target market is. We **WERE** selling items in the 20-50 dollar range. Problem as a seller?

All a buyer had to do was claim they never recieved the item and they'd get their money back, regardless of whether we provided paypal with a tracking number or not! Why wouldn't you swear at that?

Paypal seems fine if you're just selling some used items that has no appeal to human scum, but if you sell anything some scumass wants, you're going to take it in the shorts.

Things I would feel comfortable accepting payments for via paypal... ham radio equipment, old game consoles/cartridges, martha stewart type things. Things I would not accept payment for... CDs, anything associated with rap music or hiphop culture, jewelry, brand name clothes, etc...

Basically, if you would be worried about some ghetto ass punk robbing you for it, don't accept paypal as a payment for it. It's true it didn't happen all the time, but it got so bad that the fraud against us with paypal reached over 8 percent of our transactions. NEVER AGAIN. You want to buy from us, you come to our website and use your credit card. CC companies are much easier to deal with and far more fair in our experience.

eBay's biggest problem... by slavemowgli · 2005-06-22 11:11 · Score: 3, Interesting

EBay's single biggest problem, in my eyes, is the fact that you still have to pay a considerable fee even if your item does not sell. For casual sellers at least, this makes the whole platform unattractive - other services, such as amazon, only charge you when you make a sale and leave your item up there pretty much indefinitely until you *do* sell it.

Of course, the downside is that you have to pay more; amazon.de, for example, charges both a percentage (15%, I think) *and* a flat fee, so if you have something that you want to sell for less than a handful of bucks, you might actually even lose money - the shipping fees they charge the buyer wouldn't even be enough to cover actual shipping to start with, and they're usually more than eaten up by the fees, too, so you may well end up with a net earning of only one buck for a book that cost the buyer eight or nine bucks, including shipping (it's happened to me). The bulk of the money is, ultimately, shared between amazon and the postal services.

That's one reason I really hope Google gets into auctions - there definitely needs to be some competition in this area so prices will go down. And I trust that Google has both the financial and the technological strength to pull this off - not to mention the "do no evil" philosophy which would make me trust them to not rip me off *too* much at least.

--
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.

Re:eBay's biggest problem... by oakgrove · 2005-06-22 12:43 · Score: 1

Actually, you can only list for free on Amazon if you sign up for "Pro Merchant" status. Which, incidentally, costs $39.95 a month after the first 3 months.

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The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
Re:eBay's biggest problem... by oakgrove · 2005-06-22 12:46 · Score: 1

Prior to becoming a "Pro Merchant" it costs $0.99 per item to list.

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The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
Re:eBay's biggest problem... by moonbender · 2005-06-22 18:46 · Score: 1

You have to remember there is more than one Amazon. The GP referred to the German Amazon.de (which dominates the German online book market). I just checked, they explicitly state that Amazon only charges you as a seller if your item sells. If an item doesn't sell within 60 days, it's removed from the marketplace at no costs to you.

On the flipside, the fees are all a bit higher on the German Amazon, due to the exchange rate ($0.99 becomes 0.99 EUR) and the 15% VAT on all fees.

--
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.

Google? by Momoru · 2005-06-22 11:11 · Score: 1

Ok was this just a cheap Google plug? From my experience the rate of return on Google ads is usually much lower then the listing fee on ebay auctions...unless your selling some really big ticket items. But try selling one NES game or Beanie Baby by placing Google ads or a eBay listing...there is no way Google would win in that equation unless you got lucky.

Re:Google? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 12:19 · Score: 0

A story on page A1 in Wall Street Journal hardly qualifies as a *cheap* Google plug.

I call BS by madaxe42 · 2005-06-22 11:11 · Score: 1

Sorry, totally fail to believe this - I also got diddled by a seller, and was out £600 - paypal took it out of their account, putting them into substantial negative balance. Also, my little brother now has a large negative balance, because he ripped someone off. Stupid little shit.

On the other hand, I've now been wrestling with parcelforce for 6 months over a laptop they *decimated*. They're the real crooks. Did you know that the minimum insurable packaging for 'electronic equipment' is a fucking *shipping pallet*?!

Re:I look at it as *cheap* Advertising. by DogDude · 2005-06-22 11:13 · Score: 1

Take a look at Amazon. It's very hard, and I'd say near impossible to find information about the actual seller. eBay is pretty much just a big junkpile of ads and scams, from what I've seen. I'd never buy anything from eBay. Amazon, however, goes the other direction, and tries to make it transparent to the buyer. I believe that Amazon makes the buyer experience good, but does go too far with this, in that sellers are hurt to such an extent that merchants such as myself who actually have a brand name lose out in the end. Somebody (and I need to look closer at Yahoo), need to go more middle-of-the-road. They need to offer the seller some exposure, while still keeping the buyer experience good.

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I don't respond to AC's.

Have you tired... by Valiss · 2005-06-22 11:16 · Score: 1

half.com? It's owned by eBay except it's fix prices and fixed shipping rates. No bids, just the bottom line. So far I've had very good luck with them and I've used the service half a dozen times.

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-Valiss

people vs businesses by gosand · 2005-06-22 11:18 · Score: 1

Disclaimer: I work for neither Amazon nor Google. I'm not getting paid for this. The reason I'm saying all this is because Amazon is the only company I've dealt with over the past few years that has made me feel like a human instead of a problem.

Amazon, however, isn't very good to other businesses. Have you noticed how they sold Toys R Us products. They slowly started shrinking the name "Toys R Us" in favor of Amazon. It was "Amazon presents Toys R Us" then the products were just called Amazon products. The same thing kind of happened with Target stuff on Amazon. If you are a business, you have to pretty much sell your soul to deal with them (much like Wal*Mart).

--

My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

Re:people vs businesses by DogDude · 2005-06-22 11:28 · Score: 2, Interesting

That's the way Amazon is with *all* merchants now. The buyer essentially gets -zero- information about the seller, and the seller gets -zero- name recognition from Amazon. That, on top of Amazon's quite hefty fees, makes it a good place only if you don't have the expertise or the money to build your own web site.

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I don't respond to AC's.
Re:people vs businesses by CaptainStormfield · 2005-06-22 12:07 · Score: 2

Amazon, however, isn't very good to other businesses.

Somehow I'm not able to shed any tears for poor little Target and Toys R Us. I suspect that they are big boys who can take care of themselves when it comes to Amazon.

--
"The dinosaurs died because they didn't have a space program." - Niven
Re:people vs businesses by Dogtanian · 2005-06-22 23:08 · Score: 1

Somehow I'm not able to shed any tears for poor little Target and Toys R Us. I suspect that they are big boys who can take care of themselves when it comes to Amazon.

If this story is true, 'Toys R Us' deserve nothing more than to be screwed into bankruptcy on all sides.

Even if it weren't, what you say stands; they'd do the same to anyone else in a heartbeat. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

--
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Re:people vs businesses by gosand · 2005-06-23 03:04 · Score: 1

Somehow I'm not able to shed any tears for poor little Target and Toys R Us. I suspect that they are big boys who can take care of themselves when it comes to Amazon.
Those are just big name examples. What about all the smaller companies that deal with Amazon? I believe that you missed the entire point of the post.

--

My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

There's a cost to using third party services by TheNarrator · 2005-06-22 11:19 · Score: 2, Insightful

People think they can run an e-commerce shop and not do any technology or even integration. They can run the whole thing via ebay. The problem is is that there's a lot of margin getting eaten up by fees to service providers and the services aren't flexible. That, and anything that is really really easy to run is going to be subject to a lot of competition very soon and declining margins, like ebay drop shipping.

If you're on the internet you're a technology company. The same way that if you're a retail store you're to some extent in the storefront design, logistics, human resources and interior design business. At least in retail you can get into a franchise where someone has figured all this stuff out for you. With technology though there isn't a really good reason to franchise because there isn't the limited trade area issue.

Also... by DogDude · 2005-06-22 11:24 · Score: 2, Informative

Also, Amazon.com allows *no* cross selling by their merchants. Meaning, you can't in your item description, your email to the buyer, or anywhere else, suggest that the customer visit your site. So Amazon may be good for a merchant who doesn't care about cross-selling, or building a brand, but for anybody else, it's a dead-end that just leads to commodity selling. If we were to sell through Amazon, the buyer couldn't take advantage (or even be aware of) the massive amount of information we offer, our excellent customer service, or the fact that we ship everything the same day.

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I don't respond to AC's.

Re:Also... by prostoalex · 2005-06-22 11:59 · Score: 2, Informative

or the fact that we ship everything the same day.

And why would an Amazon Marketplace customer not be able to enjoy it, if they bought an item from you?

Amazon requires shipping within 2 business days. And the shiping costs are fixed, so no eBay adverts of $10 laptop with $500 shipping (exaggerating here a bit, but you know what I mean).

And I've seen Amazon IDs (selling mostly books) feature domain names, which makes it pretty clear that the seller exists as an independent site as well.
Re:Also... by hondo77 · 2005-06-22 12:21 · Score: 4, Insightful

Huh? You ship the item, right? Put your promotional material in the package. "Visit our site. 15% off your next order. Same day shipping." Amazon doesn't let you do that?

--
I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
Re:Also... by NineNine · 2005-06-22 13:14 · Score: 1

Not true at all.

1. Sellers can choose how quickly they ship. The finest granularity for our end of the shipping spectrum is "1-2 days", but you can also choose 2-3 days, 3-5 days, etc.

2. Sellers choose the shipping price. You can choose per item costs, or flat fee + $x.xx per pound. Our own website, for example, calculates the *exact* shipping based on what's shipping and where it's going to. Amazon can't do this, but sellers still set the price.

3. It states very clearly in all Amazon seller material that you *cannot* promote your own website, or even other products.

Now, there are also different levels of service for different merchants, which is probably why you're a bit confused.
Re:Also... by PostScience · 2005-06-22 13:43 · Score: 1

For selling books, you are required to ship in 1-2 business days, and shipping is $3.49 for media mail (more for priority or international).
Maybe for other things you can set shipping costs, but not for books.

Of course, you can get away with shipping pretty much whenever you damn well please.

Same with cross-promotion. Technically, it's against the rules, but who's going to stop you?

The rules with Amazon seem to be very lightly enforced. There are big-time sellers out there who have a rating of 4.5 or lower. Trust me when I say that you have to perform very poorly to earn a rating that low.
Re:Also... by prostoalex · 2005-06-22 17:32 · Score: 1

You're right, my experience is books only.
Re:Also... by shakey_deal · 2005-06-22 22:58 · Score: 1

Dont know if they allow it but I have recieved similar items with a few marketplace orders.

Ebay is as expensive... by imsabbel · 2005-06-22 11:31 · Score: 1

...as the users want it to be.
Maybe you are looking at the wrong sort of stuff, but i usually by books and manga on ebay (if something interesting pops up), and for "like new" quality i usually pay about 1/3 or the retail price.
You cant have to be patient.
(ebay SHOPS are something i never visit. The whole concept seems to be missing the whole point)

--
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?

I disagree by DogDude · 2005-06-22 11:36 · Score: 1

I've thought that since eBay's inception, it's interface is probably the worst I've ever seen. Every time I've even though about buying something, I've had to log in several times. I find it quite hard to use. Hell, there are books about how to use eBay. If somebody can make money selling a book on how to use your service, you know you've got problems. I shouldn't have to *learn* how to use a website that does something as simple as let me buy stuff.

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I don't respond to AC's.

Re:I disagree by KoReE · 2005-06-23 00:58 · Score: 1

hmm. I've never had any issues with Ebay. Even though you find Ebay difficult to use, do you find Amazon any easier?

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Instant Karma's gonna get you...
Re:I disagree by DogDude · 2005-06-23 01:59 · Score: 1

Personally, I think that Amazon is a bit better, but if I'm going to buy something, I generally use Yahoo. I think that they have the best interface, and all of their stuff is all tied to one ID, making going from news to mail to shopping, etc. pretty damn seamless.

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I don't respond to AC's.

Firefox Extension by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 11:45 · Score: 0

This would be a cool thing to solve with an extension for Mozilla/Firefox; something in the line of adblock mixed with (whatever ext. they talk about that let you "edit" sites and save your modifications.) -I realize this could be hard on a client level, and I realize I don't know anything about how e-*cough*g[b(-1)]y*cough* nor extensions work and all..

dealmein watchs both and more by infonography · 2005-06-22 11:46 · Score: 1

I use an rss feed from http://www.dealmein.net/ People pitch in a find deals then post them. Sometimes you see FUD or ill considered postings but on the whole its really useful in the non-ebay world.

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Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23

Ebay's Trying to be more small-merc focused. by dmoynihan · 2005-06-22 11:50 · Score: 1

They're launching a new version Merchant Account Paypal to compete with the other folks out there (Authorize, etc.) Most storeowners I've seen (once who take paypal in addition to their own merch accounts) are extremely leery--too many eggs in one basket, and many will never do that again (though some will no doubt join once an OSCommerce mod comes along).

Missed Quarter? No problem, increase fees! by capmblade · 2005-06-22 11:52 · Score: 2, Informative

The eBay/PayPal fees have simply gotten outrageous.

Did anyone notice that immediately after eBay missed its numbers last quarter they jacked up the seller fees? Their customer reps claimed that one had nothing to do with the other and that fees were increased to provide us sellers with more advanced services. Uh huh.

I've stopped selling on eBay because they've been taking 15-20% of everything I sell.

For clarification by temojen · 2005-06-22 11:53 · Score: 1

A "Brand New Holga 120CFN lomo toy camera" is not an 8x10 view camera

Yahoo Auctions are FREE by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 12:15 · Score: 0

...why not use them?

Re:Yahoo Auctions are FREE by Ph33r+th3+g(O)at · 2005-06-22 14:14 · Score: 1

Because the potentially increased price from the higher exposure an auction will receive on eBay, where most of the buyers are, is greater than the eBay fees that would be saved by using Yahoo auctions.

--
I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.

Yahoo auctions are FREE... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 12:21 · Score: 0

...wait until people discover them

Re:Am I taking the first post business? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 12:27 · Score: 0

I've never understood the point of sniping on ebay. Use the maximum bid option and let ebay bid up for you.

Gotta say ebay is very good for getting genuine CDs very very cheap.

Sucking up all the services around themselves by midnightthunder · 2005-06-22 12:28 · Score: 1

When I started selling on ebay, I also liked the array of independant services that helped me with ebay.

Blackthorne Software had a great program that made setting up auctions fast and easy. The price was reasonable and the responsiveness of the people behind it was good.

Ebay bought out Blackthorne and relabled the product. The cost skyrocketted, with no net gain for users of the product.

Paypal was a great, independant and trustworthy provider of money transfer services without risking giving out your credit information to every Tom, Dick and Harry.

Ebay bought out Paypal and now they are trying to nose into all sorts of places to cut their costs and lay all of their mess ups at the doors of their so called customers.

The bottom line for all companies the are allegedly providers of services to customers, is that when they switch from being service providers to dis-service providers, smart people DO become irritated and annoyed and begin to seek alternatives.

Companies do not have to be dis-service providers. But if those who run such companies to not have the personal ethics to remember this, then all they do is alienate customers and open the door for competitors to slash into their customer base and take it away.

It's not too surprising... by cgreuter · 2005-06-22 12:37 · Score: 1

Ebay is the Big Name in online sales. They're the site everybody goes to when they want to buy or sell something online. They dwarf everyone else. So obviously, they've gotten a bit arrogant, 'cause where else are people going to go, huh?

It'll be interesting to see if they catch on early enough to save the company.

Barrier to Entry by mauriatm · 2005-06-22 12:52 · Score: 2, Informative

IMO Ebay has a high barrier to entry. To be successful at selling you must have a good track record, which is perfectly fine, but for those who need to sell 1 item or small items, forget about it. My example: purchased a webpad on Ebay, used it for ~2yrs. Then wanted a new one, but the only way to recover any cost was to sell the old one on Ebay. People emailed and said they couldn't afford the risk to buy from me since I had not sold anything so big. So I took a serious loss, but I had no choice if I really wanted it sold.

And on a more personal frustration, I abhor Paypal. I won't rehash all it's issues, but my basic question is if Ebay is owned by Paypal, why not make everything more transparent???? Why so many separate fees and deductions?

So if Google is working on a Paypal competitor, I CANNOT wait! As for buying from independent sellers on Amazon - I've never had any problems, and the whole process is pretty smooth. To give credit to Ebay: single best use of Ebay - buying second-hand CD's!!!

--
Linux Resources

Re:Barrier to Entry by Quill_28 · 2005-06-23 02:37 · Score: 1

Find a friend. I sell stuff on ebay for them all the time.

Make sure to pay them to make it worth their while.

Or start buying stuff on ebay to raise your score.
Re:Barrier to Entry by mauriatm · 2005-06-23 08:27 · Score: 1

I think you just restated my point. It is frustrating that that is the best alternative. ... What if you don't have tech savy friends? Why must I buy more things for the possibility of a better sale? (There are no gaurantees).

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Linux Resources
Re:Barrier to Entry by Quill_28 · 2005-06-23 08:49 · Score: 1

Fair enough.

But I don't see any easy way around it

Well maybe if ebay does a better job of tracking down the crooks.

Re:Am I taking the first post business? by pv2b · 2005-06-22 13:15 · Score: 1

There is one advantage. I don't know if this is what snipers want to acheive, but...

I'm guessing it's to keep the bid count low, and the auction "under the radar" with a low bid count, leading to less interest in the auction, and by extention, a lower ending price. A crowd draws a crowd and all.

It's the exact opposite reason of why people put up auctions with a starting price of 1 $CURRENCY.

Re:Am I taking the first post business? by pv2b · 2005-06-22 13:19 · Score: 1

Gotta say ebay is very good for getting genuine CDs very very cheap.

</logic type="riaa">You do realize that by buying used CD:s on eBay you're STEALING from those starving artists that made the CD's? After all, by buying a CD on eBay you're going to pay the artist only once for the privilege of listening to the music for two people! You criminal mind you! You're just as bad as all the P2Pers. <logic>

(Yes. I'm being silly.)

Amazon's Marketplace has it's problems too. by nmos · 2005-06-22 13:33 · Score: 2, Informative

Last year a bunch of us bought Sharp Zauruses (Zauri?) from a guy on Amazon. At first he looked legitimate, lots of positive feedback etc. Unfortunately it quickly became clear that it was a scam and getting Amazon to do anything about it in a timely manner was impossible. I did eventually get my money back from Amazon via their guarantee but the scammer apparently got away with thousands of dollars and lived to go on and scam others because Amazon was completely unwilling to look into his behavior untill at least 30 days from the transaction.

One problem with the Amazon Marketplace is that it isn't as obvious as it should be that you're not buying from Amazon. I'm sure Slashdot readers can tell the difference but I couldn't send a friend or relitive there and expect them to notice.

Another problem with the Amazon Marketplace is that the feedback doesn't give you any clue to what the other person bought. As it turns out many scammers build up positive feedback by selling high volumes of nearly worthless goods (used/crummy dvds etc) and then suddenly switch to selling more expensive items. I thought at first maybe this was just an isolated incident but when I looked into it more I found hundreds of sellers following the same pattern. I've been on Ebay since some time in the 90's and never been scammed but managed it on my first try at Amazon.

Happy to See EBay Taste the Sword by putko · 2005-06-22 13:47 · Score: 2, Informative

I'm happy to see Ebay taste the sword.

Although they've provided a useful service, they've made a point of suporting all sorts of liberal issues, which just seems holier-than-thou. Its a goddam e-fleamarket.

I don't care that you want tri-sexuals to be able to get married, government-paid sex-change operations, govt. money for my pet's sex change operation (my cat Felix is really a Felicia) and so on.

Amazon and Google have the sense to keep politics out of their business model.

Also, the article didn't mention Craigslist, which is really killing Ebay -- Craigslist is free.

--
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_s tone_your_children/dt21_18a.html

Hey Internet Users by all+yr+bass+r+belong · 2005-06-22 13:48 · Score: 0

All your eBay's are belong to us.

-- Amazon and Google

Not a surprise by billsoxs · 2005-06-22 14:17 · Score: 1

With quotes like

"Of the auction site, where he got his start, Mr. Wieber says: "Too many sellers, not enough buyers.""

one has to wonder why. I won't shop at eBay any more because eBay is happy to protect bad sellers and they don't seem to give a @#$# about buyers. It is not an even marketplace. I don't see the same problem at Google or Amazon. There is some balance. At eBay I had a problem with a seller and the reply from eBay was 'so what'. I had a problem with a seller at Amazon and they (Amazon) intervened and got the problem fixed - to everyone's satisfaction.

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I can second grandparent's experience by jbellis · 2005-06-22 14:24 · Score: 1

I've also gotten the "sorry, the scammer's account has no funds, so you'll just have to suck it up" line.

Re:I can second grandparent's experience by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 15:35 · Score: 0

I'll third it. I never bought anything over $20 but I got stung on that scam. Paypal just took my money.

Never use them again. Fool me once...

Everyone Seems To Get Screwed Except... by B11 · 2005-06-22 14:54 · Score: 1

Seems like buyers get screwed by sellers selling crap, phishers, buyers who backout, buyers that don't ship, eBay/Paypal, etc.

Sellers get screwed by non-paying bidders, Nigerian-style scams, phishers, eBay/Paypal, etc.

Seems like the only ones not getting screwed are eBay and paypal.

BTW, in the industry I work in (automotive aftermarket), eBay = knock-off/rip-off crap. Its where people buy conterfeit parts, knock-off parts, or parts that don't work. And all these people that don't ship and pocket the money.

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insert inflammatory anti-microsoft comment here

Re:Am I taking the first post business? by BungoMan85 · 2005-06-22 16:26 · Score: 1

That's exactly why I sniped four auctions today alone. I dont just bid how much I want to spend right away, because there will be 20 people who will outbid me within a day. I let the price stay low, then bid my max within the last 45 seconds, that way I can keep the price low and ensure the item is mine. Bwahahahaha!

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Bungo!

Exactly why it's good for sellers by SuperKendall · 2005-06-22 16:43 · Score: 1

People do tend to pay wierd prices for things on eBay - which is why it's so appealing to sell there!

But there are still bargains, especially if you can take a month and use watches to hunt down the best deal. Prices really fluctuate over time.

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley

Avoids emotions, plays to bidder stupidity by SuperKendall · 2005-06-22 16:53 · Score: 2, Informative

The point of sniping is twofold:

1) You avoid emotional runups. You can't have much of a bidding war in twenty seconds.

2) Most people do NOT use the maximum bid option to just say how much they are really willing to pay. They may be willing to pay $50 but bid only $20. Why? I don't know. What I do know is that it means I can get something for $21 instead of $51 (or not at all since I'd rather get something cheap). That's why so many people feel pissed off when they are sniped, because they gladly would have paid more. I usually just bid my maximum - but if possibly I try to do it in the last thirty seconds to not let lowballers have much time to figure out what happened. If I get outbid by a better sniper, I don't care - because I've bid as much as I want and someone else is quite welcome to pay more if they wish!

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley

Actualy, no. Deposit-only Cheque Account is better by NRAdude · 2005-06-22 17:07 · Score: 0

I suggest to not give PayPal a shadow of controll to any banking account. PayPal is a middle-man to middle-men. I suggest opening a deposit-only checking account, then if you plan on buying anything through PayPal you can fund your PayPal account with the fiat-money everyone is acustomed to using.

I've been a PayPal member for no less than 6 years. I remember the first day I received an eMail for selling RAM to someone on eBay; I, being without a PayPal account, a bidder sent PayPal fiat-money to then non-existant PayPal account which was immediatly opened without authority from me. The bidder said to not be able to retract sending the money into that PayPal account, and I have been stuck with it there ever since. PayPal gave some liberty to their prison, however; I was able to spend about USD 100 in one month, but by the third month they left a deaf demand that I attach more "information." First they wanted Checking account; I don't have one. Then they wanted Savings account; I don't have one. And what realy angers me is when these "services" ask for Social Security Number yet do not attach the correct name on the Social Security account to their side; almost as though they aren't even legally allowed to use Social Security Numbers.

Well, so there is my PayPal, my eBay, and my frustration.

I have found a deposit-only cheque account has been effective to defensively participate in PayPal toward away the few degrees from the center of Dante's Inferno. Then the Internation Monetard Fund Internal Revenue Service starts trying to do business with people through PayPal's account information...snakes.

--
without prejudice

Google this and Google that by Bemmu · 2005-06-22 18:21 · Score: 1

Aren't you tired of always hearing news about Google Google Google? This stress-relieving game may help.

And then there was Vertical Search by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 22:19 · Score: 0

Froogle and social bookmarking upstarts like del.icio.us, gataga.com, spurl.net etc, will eventually be more important when buying something new, as you would trust bookmarks added by real people... but then again..., where they are nice people, they are spammers.

Re:And then there was Vertical Search by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 22:32 · Score: 0

How are bookmarks going to help? They would be added by site owners and not real people buying stuff... and it'll be full of porn links.

why? very easy by stock · 2005-06-22 23:28 · Score: 1

i get about 100 spam emails a day. What strikes me though is that none of these emails contain false or forged messages which concern or contain the domain names amazon.com, amazon.co.uk, amazon.de and google.com or google.nl.

This surely gives customers a better feeling when choosing to shop and purchase through amazon and or google.

Has it all todo with protecting the reputation of ones internet domain name?

Robert

Re:why? very easy by jwave · 2005-06-27 08:07 · Score: 1

Given sufficient time and profit, Amazon and Google will fall under the PayPal/eBay phishing spam-scams. Just wait for it...

Why these fraud problems? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-22 23:33 · Score: 0

Why not just pay by (online) bank transfer when purchasing something from ebay or similar sites? Safe and simple, no paypal, creditcards or whatever.

Monopoly by Britz · 2005-06-23 00:17 · Score: 1

Ebay has a monopoly. A natural one.

Look what Microsoft's monopoly on the desktop OS has done to Windows. If there would have been any competition on the OS market my grandma could have installed and be running a PC 4 years ago. And Security would be much, much better.

Same to Ebay. But Ebay has a natural monopoly that comes with the size.

An eBay employee adds their two cents by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-23 02:07 · Score: 0

I've worked in eBay's customer service for two years. A few thoughts:

1) We don't like keyword spamming any more than you do. That's why we have a rule against it. It personally offends me to the point that I report it every time I come across it - even though I'm not in the Trust and Safety department. They're working 24 hours a day to take those listings down but it's sweeping back the ocean with a broom. Blame the sellers who are too lazy to read the rules or too unscrupulous to care about them. Report them, shun their items, and get on with your life.

2) When the seller charges $10.00 to ship a lightweight $1.00 item, they're screwing us on the Final Value Fee. Needless to say, we don't like it. But it's a grey area - where exactly do you draw the line? I'd rather see our finite Trust and Safety resources used to go after the scumbags who rip you off without being honest enough to state so up front.

3) I have seen members treated like a problem instead of a person. On my occasional bad day, I have done so myself. I hope you'll take my word for it that our orientation coaching didn't have a module titled "The Customer: It's Us versus Them".

But we are human beings working there, not robots - many suspicious member inquiries to the contrary. If you come in seething with frustration or paranoia and take unfair advantage of our professional obligation not to call you on being an asshole, guess what? You *are* a problem instead of a person now.

Is there a mistake on your bill? Try to remember a time when one of *your* computers screwed up, give us specific information on where the mistake is, and politely ask us to correct it. You'll be amazed how glad we are to help.

For Adsense revenues by mparaz · 2005-06-23 02:13 · Score: 1

This should let you consolidate your sales with Adsense revenues as well. Sweet.

^^MOD PARENT UP!! by celerityfm · 2005-06-23 02:41 · Score: 1

BEST advice EVER for Internet sales.

I don't understand how or why, but it seems that NO ONE knows that with credit cards if you don't get what you paid for then you can charge back the money to the seller. Further, if your card gets stolen or your card # gets abused or leaked on the internet you are only legally liable for the first $50 of fraud, and then CC companies generally don't even take you for that $50 and better yet if you report the fraud before any charges are made you are liable for NOTHING. NOTHING.

So seriously, quit messing around with direct bank account stuff on paypal (which IMO is very dangerous), and quit using debit cards for payment because CREDIT CARDS, while evil, offer the best protection you can get. What's sad is the number of people who pay their bills when they see fradulent charges and try to get it fixed directly the merchant, this is ok if you trust the merchant and just think a mistake has been made, but if you pay the bill then your ability to recover the money goes down significantly. Don't pay it if there are fradulent charges on there, call the CC company, they will take care of it and give you a new statement to pay. AOL exploited its customers ignorance of this rule when it fradulently continued to charge customers credit cards after customers canceled their accounts. They managed to steal away a coupla extra bucks and stave off their crisis since they knew that their customers wouldn't dispute the charges and that they could just tell the customers to go screw. Then again what is it that everyone says about AOL users again? Apparently AOL is aware of this too ;)

Just be sure to pay 100% of your balance every statement. And don't try to abuse this system, card companies will figure out your game, they've got Frank Abagnale on their side.

--
...unfortunately no one can be told what The Mat^H^H^HGoatse is...they must experience it for themselves...

Ebay and Paypal Evil Empire by DarthVain · 2005-06-23 02:45 · Score: 1

My last beef with ebay I got really pissed about, and it is particulary stupid if ebay owns paypal.

The ubershort version of the story is this: I have had an ebay account since 2000, it was registered to a webmail address (yahoo). This year (so I have had an account in good standing for 5 years now using my webmail address), my computer basically had a virus meltdown as I was using a bootleg version of windows. I was in the middle of several trasactions at the time and did not want to cause delays to the sellers involved. So I changed my e-mail address to my work email address (which really is a no-no), just temporarly (so I thought) so I could finish my transactions.

I finally get my home system (it was a complicated mess) up and running again (had to abandon windows in favor of Linux). I decided to change my addess on ebay BACK to my orginally address (to stop all those annoying messanges being sent to my place of work). Guess what, ebay refuses to do so! They say because it is a webmail address they require my credit card number. I tell them to f*&k off. They can't seem to understand that I never gave them a credit card number before, and I am not about to now. It is bad enough that I have to suffer paypal having my credit card number (a nessary evil). I argued and argued with them, trying to point out how silly they were being. They even have on record my old address and how long I was registered to that address, yet still will not change it back.

So now unless I capitulate and give up my personal finicial information to them they are essientially holding both my ebay account and my work email address hostage. As now I get all this crap (I have turned off most of the junk they send) to my work email address which I could get in trouble for and I can't make them completely stop with out destroying my account and thus my built up feedback. Also it makes my ebay account unusable if I turn ALL the notifications off to avoid trouble at work. It really is bullshit.

so in summary. Don't change your email account in ebay. As how this ties into the parent message, if they own paypal, then they already HAVE my damn credit card number, confirmed, they don't need it again. Bastards!

Ebays Profit Model:

1)Users build up feedback
2)Leverage feedback
3)Profit!!!

The three headed snake part sucks too! by Displaced+Cajun · 2005-06-23 02:49 · Score: 1

The Three headed snake really bites. What three headed snake? Oh, try this:

1. eBay Listing Fees
2. ebay Selling Fees
3. Paypal Money recieved Fees

Then add to that if you list an item and it doesn't sell you still pay the listing fee, relist the item, and now your profit is severly cut into.

--
Executive ability is deciding quickly and getting someone else to do the work. --John G. Pollard

+1, Advertisement. by theTerribleRobbo · 2005-06-23 03:18 · Score: 1

See subject.

list of alternative auction sites by mcsake · 2005-06-23 03:19 · Score: 0

There are many places to sell your goods besides ebay take a look at this list.
http://www.powersellersunite.com/viewtopic.php?t=7

Also search multiple auction sites at once including yahoo and overstock with Mother Of All Auction Searches http://www.moaas.com/

--
www.gamesug.com

One lone voice for eBay stores by alex_guy_CA · 2005-06-23 03:23 · Score: 1

I have a cabin in the mountains. When I am up here, I am far far away from any but the most mainstream whit bread stores. If I want spam on mayonnaise, no problem. If I want yerba matte, or Sumatran coffee, or a yoga mat or what ever else my non bud lite drinking mind can think of (if I wanted bud lite, no problem), I can either wait until I go back to the city (sometimes weeks depending on the season), or volia, eBay stores.

--
San Francisco Photographers

Solution to using Paypal by zorg77 · 2005-06-23 03:42 · Score: 1

I, along with about everyone else, know people who have had problems with Paypal fraud. Paypal is evil. No question about it. At the same time, I'm lazy and sometimes cheap. I buy a number of things off of ebay and sell things now and then. With that, I just about have to deal with Paypal.

Here is how I have dealt with it so far:
1. Open an a free account at a different bank to link to Paypal. Just put in the $5 minimum or whatever it is to open the account. This gets you verified, but keeps your real bank account safe.
2. Use credit cards with one time use numbers and limits to pay for auctions. Citibank (yes, evil, but the virtual stuff works well) and Discover, at a min offer this. I'm sure many others do as well.
3. If you do much in the way of selling, make sure to transfer your money from Paypay to the free bank account and then empty out the account (write a check to yourself and deposit in your normal bank).

It's not quite as easy as linking to your bank account, etc., but I have been able to pay my mortgage every month, etc. (Had a friend who had an issue with Paypal fraud. They put a hold on a couple of grand in his bank account causing issues with paying the mortgage).

PayPal warnings switching to credit card by spage · 2005-06-24 11:18 · Score: 1

If I try removing bank info, PayPal warns:

You are about to remove the following bank account from your PayPal account...

Since this is your only confirmed bank account, if you remove it you will immediately become unverified, you will no longer be able to add funds via electronic funds transfer, your credit card charge limit will be reinstated, and you will no longer be protected by the Buyer and Seller Protection Policies.

Does any of this matter? Are the credit card's protections better than PayPal's?

--
=S

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